Q:
What are some specific flies that you'd like to buy, but you have a hard time finding? I've noticed that the very specific flies I would have liked to have in the past--special hooks, upright points, alternative materials, etc.--were often not available, but now that I am tying my own flies, I see that many of them are not that hard to make. I'm flirting with the idea of selling flies online, but I'd like to specialize in the areas where others aren't selling. Suggestions?
Question by Jan J. Mudder. Uploaded on July 10, 2012
Answers (20)
JMO~ You have to Deal with CHINA prices they Copy every type Fly every made,....Good Luck in your Venture!
I agree with Treestand. Don't quit your day job! You might do okay as a hobby that somewhat pays for itself. Really go after the outfitters in Alaska. Maybe even try to wiggle something Alaskan into the name of your enterprise and/or dream up your own specialty fly with an Alaskan name (e.g. American Creek Goofus). Drop into your local high school business ed dept and see if you can get one of their kids to work on a website for you. I sub taught some of the business kids here for years and was always amazed at what they were doing for some local entrepeneurs ... and for free usually! There is lots of competition on Ebay and other places on the web so don't expect to become Donald Trump overnight.
Personally, I would like to see more dragonfly patterns. Big ones! Not the nymphs and whatnot. Just a big ol' scary dragonfly. Can't find many. Our bass pond has several dragonflys around it, I've seen some fall in the water while mating, and they got got! I know it'd be great for my pond at least.
Bet you saw a damsel fly, not a dragon. Fish seldom if ever eat an adult dragonfly....and why you don't see any for sale !
Damsel fly? Close enough. lol
Yep, I have been tying up damsel adults right now. That is some exciting fishing when trout in lakes go for the adult damsels when they mate, and land on the water...trout rush them like a bass taking a popper. Damsels are smaller, and you can tell they are damsels because when they land their wings are parallel over their body...right in line with their body. Dragons are bigger, and their wings are horizonal from their body, airplane like. I should have been on my lake this morning fishing a dry damsel fly. Gets me excited just thinking about it.
Thanks Sayfu, never honestly knew what the difference was.
Thanks for the feedback, but I'm already quite plugged into what's available on eBay, from China, etc. I'm talking about specific things that I want that are usually not available. Let me give some examples, and I'll bet you can add to my list:
1. High quality hooks: Daiichi, Gamakatsu, etc.--Chinese flies don't even touch this area because the hooks are too expensive to sell the flies for the pennies that they charge;
2. Alternative materials in standard patterns: arctic fox hair instead of zonker strips (casts easier) or Clouser minnows with something other than bucktail;
3. Alternative tying styles in standard patterns: I like my weighted streamers to ride point-up, even without hour-glass eyes--ever see woolly buggers or black-nosed dace for sale with hooks pointing up? online?
4. Newer patterns: I really liked the Clown-shoe Caddis that was featured on F&S awhile back, but try to find some online;
5. Specialty patterns: I recently took a trip to Tahoe, CA, and all of the streams and lakes in the area are heavily populated by red-sided shiners; anyone know of a red-sided shiner pattern? available online?
6. (This one is going to upset Sayfu, so, sorry, Sayfu) Fly patterns adopted for spin fishermen: I often use Clouser patterns (or similar) with my spinning rod, and I suspect that many other spin fishermen would like to use go-to fly patterns ... if they were/are available. Think of all of the heavily weighted fly patterns that are hard to cast: those are easily changed into spinning rod flies.
7. Specialty/fad items: I saw some Gateway hooks advertised in association with the Tightlines videos for fly tiers, and I thought that it would be great to try some out--you have to buy the hooks and tie them for yourself, but I'll bet that there are people who would like to try some standard patterns with Gateway hooks without having to buy the hooks and tie them for themselves.
8. Standard patterns in non-standard configurations: I love woolly buggers, and I think that most people will agree that black, olive, and brown are the most productive colors, but what if you'd like a black tail, olive body, and black hackle? Can you find it? How about online?
9. Saltwater flies (especially with high quality hooks): I'm flirting with doing some saltwater flies because the high cost of the hooks seems to have kept the overseas producers from making them.
10. Starter packages, etc.: Whenever I see F&S or Midcurrent or whoever run a list of their favorite or most recommended flies, I mentally add up how much it costs for a newby to assemble a collection like that. To get the cheap prices on eBay, you have to buy by the dozen, and that means buying one dozen of one style/color/size. Covering something standard, like a parachute Adams in standard sizes, is going to cost $1.50-2.00 per fly if purchased individually, but it's going to cost A LOT more than that if the flies are bought in bulk to get a better per-unit price.
These are the sorts of things I was thinking of. I have a business background (including a business degree, for whatever clout that carries), and I have no plans to quit my day job. I enjoy tying flies, but I already have more flies than I could probably use in a long lifetime, so I was thinking that it would be a nice break from the day to spend my lunchtime (I'm a teacher) tying flies for sale. Five flies per day equals about a thousand at the end of the year, and I can sell them during breaks. Since all of the above would be hand-tied by an American with premium materials, and probably none of them would otherwise be available online, I think that I can expect to sell them for a reasonable profit. I've bought thousands of flies on eBay, so I know what's out there ... and I know what isn't.
Now, back to what I originally asked: What are some flies that you've tried to purchase, but couldn't?
Don't think there is any, not from my standpoint. There are so many new creations every year it is unbelievable! I tie thousands, and follow the industry trying to stay on top of new creations, but can not. Every season there has to be a whole new batch of gotta have patterns that gets marketed, and they have to have new, catchy names. I've gone the other way...back to old standards. The female adams was a good producer this Spring on the Henry's Fork. Did my heart good, and I tied some up..the pattern is as old as I am.
Mr. Mudder, if you sell a large group of flies, I would be interested in purchasing them from Ebay. I respect what you are trying to do. Nothing like making money from doing what you love. Let me know if you sell a group of 20 or so flies in a batch. Thanks
I was buying flies off a guy on myflies.com. You send them pix and info and they handle the web site, credit card processing etc. The guys I was buying from was very very good. I was even taking orders from people at work and bundling the order for a discount.
But sadly, this guys prices went up and the local stream was eating them like pop corn. It got too expensive.
To mis-quote an old phrase: If you build a better Hellgrammite the world will beat a part to your door.
Sorry. Got caught up in my answer. I wanted to add. IF you build a good Hellgrammite pattern and have them at a decent price, put up a pix and I for one would be interested.
wvboy1022, let me know what you'd like, and we'll work out some sort of trial offer, more or less at price. If you like them, I'll get a blurb from you, and you can order more; if you don't, well, silence is golden.
RockySquirrel, I was working up something new for hellgrammites this spring, though I didn't get the chance to test my new flies where I'd planned to fish them. I came up with a nifty little dry for the dobson's fly adult, and I spent some time researching what dislodged hellgrammites look like. For what it's worth, they (like stonefly nymphs) roll themselves into a slightly squirming ball when dislodged into the current, so I tied black and green sparkle chenille onto a size 12 round caddis pupa hook and added some sparse, long, fluttering black hackle (like a woolly worm) for legs. I never got back to the stream to try them, but I'd be shocked if they wouldn't do a number on fish that eat a lot of hellgrammites. What are you primarily fishing for: smallmouth, trout?
Mr. Mudder; I am mostly a small mouth kind of fisherman, but have given or loaned Hellgrammite flies to friends who have trout tear them up. An accurate Hellgrammite is a gold mine. If you have a good pattern and can supply some, let me see what you have. A good imitation of a stone cat (although I have yet to see one), ought to bring them running also.
Hope you understand the math Jan...won't work. You get yourself into a whole lot of variables form hooks to materials...been there done that. You have to buy hooks in volume to get any kinda price, materials the same way. You get so heavily stocked in inventory, and you still can't meet someone's demand like Rocky, for instance. He will want a particular hook, maybe even a weed guard on the fly. Time is money, and you will be working for 50 cents an hour I can guarantee you. Good hooks and materials cost money. To make a few bucks an hour you'll need to tie a fly for $2 a piece, and have to pay shipping maybe. No one wants to pay shipping on just a dozen flies. The fun wears off fast, believe me, and takes all the joy out of tying flies. And if you haven't tied a particular pattern many times over...you can't tie the fly as good as the commercial person that has tied a thousand dozen of them. The USA tiers that I know an make it pay, are fly anglers with a good reputation in the business like Mike Lawson out my way, or Rene' Harrop. They can tie a fly special order for anglers that have lots of money, and can charge $30 a doz., or more, and make it pay.
Sayfu, I have done the math, and I've run similar sorts of business deals in the past. I'm NOT trying to make a living by doing this; I'm tying flies during my lunch break because it's relaxing, and I'll target flies that aren't being tied overseas. My opportunity cost for my time is $0, so all I have to do is cover the cost of materials: I bought out two online fly retailers last spring when they sold out.
I understand what you're saying, but the price and supply of hooks and the most common fly-tying materials are already stocked up in large boxes, sitting in storage ... lonely. I've spent nearly two years on eBay, looking for bargains--living overseas I can't shop in person--so I have a pretty good grasp of what's out there, and what's being charged.
If you think that I'm going to only make $.50/hour, you should make a point of ordering some flies when I bring them online so that you can get some bargains before I go broke.
See, you are starting by saying the extreme..."making a living" I would guess you are still going to have to purchase supplies, to meet these weird pattern requests you are probably going to get. You will adding to the boxes of fly tying materials you already have. Maybe not, I wish you good luck. I did it for a Summer, and was besieged with orders because Field and Stream promoted me as the place to get this particular fly. Made a horrible work project out of something I like to do, tie flies. Everything has to be laid out, and at your disposal to be able to speed tie at all. I like to take the time to reflect on what I am creating. But you may not have the attitude problem I had.
Mr. Mudder, if you are still interested in doing this, do you have a business email? Thanks
My wife is due to have our second baby this week, and I'm in the middle of moving for the summer and preparing for a new job at a new school this fall, so I have no plans to sell flies this summer. I intend to tie up a stock of flies--like those described above--over the winter and start to sell them in June of 2013 on eBay.
WV Boy, if you remove the spaces and turn the two words into their symbols, here's how you can reach me: Jan J Mudder at hot mail dot com
I sent an email earlier Mr. Mudder. Thanks
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Sayfu, I have done the math, and I've run similar sorts of business deals in the past. I'm NOT trying to make a living by doing this; I'm tying flies during my lunch break because it's relaxing, and I'll target flies that aren't being tied overseas. My opportunity cost for my time is $0, so all I have to do is cover the cost of materials: I bought out two online fly retailers last spring when they sold out.
I understand what you're saying, but the price and supply of hooks and the most common fly-tying materials are already stocked up in large boxes, sitting in storage ... lonely. I've spent nearly two years on eBay, looking for bargains--living overseas I can't shop in person--so I have a pretty good grasp of what's out there, and what's being charged.
If you think that I'm going to only make $.50/hour, you should make a point of ordering some flies when I bring them online so that you can get some bargains before I go broke.
Personally, I would like to see more dragonfly patterns. Big ones! Not the nymphs and whatnot. Just a big ol' scary dragonfly. Can't find many. Our bass pond has several dragonflys around it, I've seen some fall in the water while mating, and they got got! I know it'd be great for my pond at least.
Bet you saw a damsel fly, not a dragon. Fish seldom if ever eat an adult dragonfly....and why you don't see any for sale !
Yep, I have been tying up damsel adults right now. That is some exciting fishing when trout in lakes go for the adult damsels when they mate, and land on the water...trout rush them like a bass taking a popper. Damsels are smaller, and you can tell they are damsels because when they land their wings are parallel over their body...right in line with their body. Dragons are bigger, and their wings are horizonal from their body, airplane like. I should have been on my lake this morning fishing a dry damsel fly. Gets me excited just thinking about it.
Mr. Mudder, if you sell a large group of flies, I would be interested in purchasing them from Ebay. I respect what you are trying to do. Nothing like making money from doing what you love. Let me know if you sell a group of 20 or so flies in a batch. Thanks
Sorry. Got caught up in my answer. I wanted to add. IF you build a good Hellgrammite pattern and have them at a decent price, put up a pix and I for one would be interested.
JMO~ You have to Deal with CHINA prices they Copy every type Fly every made,....Good Luck in your Venture!
I agree with Treestand. Don't quit your day job! You might do okay as a hobby that somewhat pays for itself. Really go after the outfitters in Alaska. Maybe even try to wiggle something Alaskan into the name of your enterprise and/or dream up your own specialty fly with an Alaskan name (e.g. American Creek Goofus). Drop into your local high school business ed dept and see if you can get one of their kids to work on a website for you. I sub taught some of the business kids here for years and was always amazed at what they were doing for some local entrepeneurs ... and for free usually! There is lots of competition on Ebay and other places on the web so don't expect to become Donald Trump overnight.
Damsel fly? Close enough. lol
Thanks Sayfu, never honestly knew what the difference was.
Thanks for the feedback, but I'm already quite plugged into what's available on eBay, from China, etc. I'm talking about specific things that I want that are usually not available. Let me give some examples, and I'll bet you can add to my list:
1. High quality hooks: Daiichi, Gamakatsu, etc.--Chinese flies don't even touch this area because the hooks are too expensive to sell the flies for the pennies that they charge;
2. Alternative materials in standard patterns: arctic fox hair instead of zonker strips (casts easier) or Clouser minnows with something other than bucktail;
3. Alternative tying styles in standard patterns: I like my weighted streamers to ride point-up, even without hour-glass eyes--ever see woolly buggers or black-nosed dace for sale with hooks pointing up? online?
4. Newer patterns: I really liked the Clown-shoe Caddis that was featured on F&S awhile back, but try to find some online;
5. Specialty patterns: I recently took a trip to Tahoe, CA, and all of the streams and lakes in the area are heavily populated by red-sided shiners; anyone know of a red-sided shiner pattern? available online?
6. (This one is going to upset Sayfu, so, sorry, Sayfu) Fly patterns adopted for spin fishermen: I often use Clouser patterns (or similar) with my spinning rod, and I suspect that many other spin fishermen would like to use go-to fly patterns ... if they were/are available. Think of all of the heavily weighted fly patterns that are hard to cast: those are easily changed into spinning rod flies.
7. Specialty/fad items: I saw some Gateway hooks advertised in association with the Tightlines videos for fly tiers, and I thought that it would be great to try some out--you have to buy the hooks and tie them for yourself, but I'll bet that there are people who would like to try some standard patterns with Gateway hooks without having to buy the hooks and tie them for themselves.
8. Standard patterns in non-standard configurations: I love woolly buggers, and I think that most people will agree that black, olive, and brown are the most productive colors, but what if you'd like a black tail, olive body, and black hackle? Can you find it? How about online?
9. Saltwater flies (especially with high quality hooks): I'm flirting with doing some saltwater flies because the high cost of the hooks seems to have kept the overseas producers from making them.
10. Starter packages, etc.: Whenever I see F&S or Midcurrent or whoever run a list of their favorite or most recommended flies, I mentally add up how much it costs for a newby to assemble a collection like that. To get the cheap prices on eBay, you have to buy by the dozen, and that means buying one dozen of one style/color/size. Covering something standard, like a parachute Adams in standard sizes, is going to cost $1.50-2.00 per fly if purchased individually, but it's going to cost A LOT more than that if the flies are bought in bulk to get a better per-unit price.
These are the sorts of things I was thinking of. I have a business background (including a business degree, for whatever clout that carries), and I have no plans to quit my day job. I enjoy tying flies, but I already have more flies than I could probably use in a long lifetime, so I was thinking that it would be a nice break from the day to spend my lunchtime (I'm a teacher) tying flies for sale. Five flies per day equals about a thousand at the end of the year, and I can sell them during breaks. Since all of the above would be hand-tied by an American with premium materials, and probably none of them would otherwise be available online, I think that I can expect to sell them for a reasonable profit. I've bought thousands of flies on eBay, so I know what's out there ... and I know what isn't.
Now, back to what I originally asked: What are some flies that you've tried to purchase, but couldn't?
Don't think there is any, not from my standpoint. There are so many new creations every year it is unbelievable! I tie thousands, and follow the industry trying to stay on top of new creations, but can not. Every season there has to be a whole new batch of gotta have patterns that gets marketed, and they have to have new, catchy names. I've gone the other way...back to old standards. The female adams was a good producer this Spring on the Henry's Fork. Did my heart good, and I tied some up..the pattern is as old as I am.
I was buying flies off a guy on myflies.com. You send them pix and info and they handle the web site, credit card processing etc. The guys I was buying from was very very good. I was even taking orders from people at work and bundling the order for a discount.
But sadly, this guys prices went up and the local stream was eating them like pop corn. It got too expensive.
To mis-quote an old phrase: If you build a better Hellgrammite the world will beat a part to your door.
wvboy1022, let me know what you'd like, and we'll work out some sort of trial offer, more or less at price. If you like them, I'll get a blurb from you, and you can order more; if you don't, well, silence is golden.
RockySquirrel, I was working up something new for hellgrammites this spring, though I didn't get the chance to test my new flies where I'd planned to fish them. I came up with a nifty little dry for the dobson's fly adult, and I spent some time researching what dislodged hellgrammites look like. For what it's worth, they (like stonefly nymphs) roll themselves into a slightly squirming ball when dislodged into the current, so I tied black and green sparkle chenille onto a size 12 round caddis pupa hook and added some sparse, long, fluttering black hackle (like a woolly worm) for legs. I never got back to the stream to try them, but I'd be shocked if they wouldn't do a number on fish that eat a lot of hellgrammites. What are you primarily fishing for: smallmouth, trout?
Mr. Mudder; I am mostly a small mouth kind of fisherman, but have given or loaned Hellgrammite flies to friends who have trout tear them up. An accurate Hellgrammite is a gold mine. If you have a good pattern and can supply some, let me see what you have. A good imitation of a stone cat (although I have yet to see one), ought to bring them running also.
Hope you understand the math Jan...won't work. You get yourself into a whole lot of variables form hooks to materials...been there done that. You have to buy hooks in volume to get any kinda price, materials the same way. You get so heavily stocked in inventory, and you still can't meet someone's demand like Rocky, for instance. He will want a particular hook, maybe even a weed guard on the fly. Time is money, and you will be working for 50 cents an hour I can guarantee you. Good hooks and materials cost money. To make a few bucks an hour you'll need to tie a fly for $2 a piece, and have to pay shipping maybe. No one wants to pay shipping on just a dozen flies. The fun wears off fast, believe me, and takes all the joy out of tying flies. And if you haven't tied a particular pattern many times over...you can't tie the fly as good as the commercial person that has tied a thousand dozen of them. The USA tiers that I know an make it pay, are fly anglers with a good reputation in the business like Mike Lawson out my way, or Rene' Harrop. They can tie a fly special order for anglers that have lots of money, and can charge $30 a doz., or more, and make it pay.
See, you are starting by saying the extreme..."making a living" I would guess you are still going to have to purchase supplies, to meet these weird pattern requests you are probably going to get. You will adding to the boxes of fly tying materials you already have. Maybe not, I wish you good luck. I did it for a Summer, and was besieged with orders because Field and Stream promoted me as the place to get this particular fly. Made a horrible work project out of something I like to do, tie flies. Everything has to be laid out, and at your disposal to be able to speed tie at all. I like to take the time to reflect on what I am creating. But you may not have the attitude problem I had.
Mr. Mudder, if you are still interested in doing this, do you have a business email? Thanks
My wife is due to have our second baby this week, and I'm in the middle of moving for the summer and preparing for a new job at a new school this fall, so I have no plans to sell flies this summer. I intend to tie up a stock of flies--like those described above--over the winter and start to sell them in June of 2013 on eBay.
WV Boy, if you remove the spaces and turn the two words into their symbols, here's how you can reach me: Jan J Mudder at hot mail dot com
I sent an email earlier Mr. Mudder. Thanks
Post an Answer