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Q:
.22 caliber for conceal carry weapon? I know that there is a big desire for 'knock 'em down with one shot' kind of power, but a .22 isn't just a kids toy. I think that brandishing any caliber of firearm would diffuse most situations, and if one bullet doesn't stop them, that's why you target practice with a whole clip (which is actually affordable to practice a lot with a .22). I've been looking at the browning 1911 style .22, which actually sounds like a reliable .22 pistol. Plus in a anarchy type scenario, it is actually feasible to have thousands of rounds; I read a blog comment a long time ago from a survivalist in argentina that thieves would come to his land daily and he would fire his .22 in the air to scare them off instead of wasting his more valuable ammo on them. I will never forget his little nugget of pure wisdom: "you shoot to survive, not to kill". That being said, I think that any chunk of lead traveling thousands of feet per second will do, and that too much stock is invested in large (expensive) caliber bullets. Just my two cents, Im not an expert so what do the experts think?

Question by tyson. Uploaded on June 01, 2012

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from deerhunterrick wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Ok lets get 1 thing very clear.If you brandish any weapon without discharging it,it is the same as if you fired it when you have a CCW. If the outline of your weapon is visible you can be charged with insighting riot.Make sure you understand everything that pertains in your state to a carry permit. The .22LR will indeed kill someone and at 1 time was the #1 hitmans choice and probably still is. But it is totally another story when you are faced with someone hyped up on drugs or someone already knowing they might be confronted with a weapon. Unless you are very good at placement with your shots most people shot with the .22LR don't even know it. They tend to travel inside the body when hitting bone making them fairly dangerous. Yes, I have been shot with more then 1 .22LR . 1 from unknown distance smack dab in the center of the chest and still carry a reminder of just how close it was. And once in the left arm at about 20 feet. That 1 felt almost like getting stunk by a hornet.Other than that, if it wasn't for the blood that is exactly what I would have thought happened. Granted either shot in the head and it would have been over. Now either shot from a 9mm or anything larger and it would have slowed me down quite fast. It's been said that a .22 mag handgun would be suffice at close range, on normal people that is. Someone hyped up is another story. I'll stick to my 10mm or .45acp if you don't mind. When in a pull and shot situation you don't have time to pick and choose your shots.You pull center torso and have at it. Dirty Harry shooting them in the hand or leg don't happen in real life

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from jay wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Do you homework on semi-auto .22 handguns. Many have feed reliability issues. If it were me and I wanted a .22 CCW, i'd get one of the light weight revolvers from ruger (LCR).

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from CL3 wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I also heard someone talking about a .22 semi for women to carry. The light recoil would tend give confidence and limit flinching if practiced well with (you should practice with any firearm anyway). I think the theory is right, but as jay above comments, it's a reliability issue, thus not making me feel confident.

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from 99explorer wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Aileen Wuornos, the Florida female serial killer, murdered all seven of her victims with a .22LR revolver.

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from tneal1987 wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I think it would be a good choice, a lot of times in a situation, as you stated, just having a firearm will help to diffuse the situation, if not, they still shoot.
Rick- How have you been in situations that got you shot twice? was it military? If you don't mind me asking anyways, the only person I know of that was shot with a .22 was hit in the foot during a track meet from a bullet that riccoched from a turkey shoot downtown, 3/4 of a mile away. A one in a Billion chance.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Why would you want a 1911 style .22 LR?

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from tyson wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I think you hit it right in the nose deerhunterrick (but ny brandish, I don't mean pull it out and wave it on the highway in road rage, I mean more like pull it on a knife wielding mugger). But your history of being shot twice furthers my point, a .22 doesn't have to be lethal, but it can be if the shooter decides. No one has ever said shoot to scare, or shoot to injure, its always shoot to kill (if I were in the military, a gang, or police force I admit I would a bigger gun). Call me soft, but I think I would prefer to not kill someone if I could otherwise scare them or injure them, but this is all hypothetical mumbo jumbo from me. It would be wise to have immediate stopping force at your disposal. By the way I would want a 1911 .22 mostly for the fun of shooting first (which to me is more fun at 3¢ per shot than 35¢ per shot), and then as a weapon second. I have a Walther p22 already which is fun, but the reliability is too poor to ever consider CCW (thus the desirable upgrade to the more reliable browning 1911).

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from LeVan Goodey wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Here is my .02.
I believe that just about evey firearm in the world has loads that it prefers over others for no rhyme or reason. I have two Walthers, a PP and a P-22 and neither one likes long nosed hollow points such as Federal Spitfires or Reminton Yellowjackets.They both feed Stingers, Aguila SSS, Velocitors, Blasers etc with out any problem. If your P-22 is giving you a bad time the next time you take it apart to clean it check the screw in the right side if the reciever. Making sure that it is tight improved the performance of mine consderably.
At one time showing a fire arm MAY have helped, but I doubt that it would now days, so I advise to pull out your weapon only if you intend to use it and than use it quickly. I worked security for DOE for a while and we carried S&W 686s with Federal +P+ Hydyoshock bullets. We were trained to shoot three times; two to the chest and one to the forehead. Repeast as needed. The philosophy behind that was to defeat body armour and people on drugs. If I had a.22 and the attacker was wearing anying more than a Tee shirt I would forget the two to the chest and put three in his forehead.
There are some high quality small bigger than .22 handguns around. Walther makes a nice 380 and there are even some small 45s (kahr for one), but shooting one might not be that much fun. Pratice practice, practice with what you have until you are confident.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Carry the larges caliber handgun that you feel comfortable with it's concealability, i.e. the biggest one you can conceal and carry all the time. The baddest hand cannon is useless if left in your car or at home. Any gun in the hand is better than the ideal weapon elsewhere. Brandishing a weapon is a mere invitation to have it taken from you or shot by a bystander. Draw, aim, fire, holster. Don't give the threat time to react to the drawn weapon. The first thing he should see is your movement to draw and the next and last thing is a muzzle flash and a bang.

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from 99explorer wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

There are times after dark, at some of the rest stops along south Florida highways, when a weary motorist is approached by young hoodlums looking for something more than a cup of coffee.
The motorist removes his holstered weapon in a non-threatening manner, checks to see that it is loaded, and re-holsters it. The young visitors suddenly remember more urgent business elsewhere and take off.
Technically, this tactic would constitute brandishing, and could get you charged with aggravated assault in many places if you have misjudged the situation. But it seems to happen with some regularity in south Florida. Just sayin.

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

All good posts. Your idea of just brandishing will at the least get you arrested for felony menacing. At the worst will get you justifiable killed. Myself I have worked in neighborhoods at all times of the AM&PM that angels have feared to tread. Some even got into the movies. I personally have never seen the need for that "Iron Teddy Bear". All it will do is make you over extend yourself. Unless you have a really good cause and a better lawyer you are just opening yourself to a lot of heart ache. IF you live! Case in point that mess in Florida. As far as your choice in caliber. It was for a time very prevalent in my old neighborhood [Brooklyn]. But the shot was delivered from behind [by surprise]to the base of the skull by a serious individual. Best advice you should develop a winning personality and be aware of your surroundings.

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

PS Thank you Tyson for reminding me of a funny story. I don't know if you ever had a gun pointed at you. So let me tell you how it goes. In the 70's I worked for a large utility. Their answer to working in high crime areas was to designate it a two man area. So during summer months they would temp hire some young kid to accompany you on your rounds. So here I am on a blazing hot day in July on West 118 street and 8th avenue. Amongst app 80 other people. Two locals walk up to us carrying an umbrella, not a cloud in the sky. When they get close they show us that aside from the umbrella they also had a sawed off shotgun. My partner immediately throws his hands up. To which the two locals respond " do you think this is a F3CKING STAGE COUCH ROBBERY put your F-ing hands down just give us you wallets". Mind you this is on a crowded city street. I always carried a second wallet with hot dog money. The youngster probably lost the picture of his girl friend. My point you never know

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from deerhunterrick wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Carl that is a great piece of advice.But it is better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6 in my book. I used to frequent Trenton NJ and New Haven ,Conn back in the 70's and making friends was not a good thing to do in either place,lol..Witnessed a walk by on the George Washington bridge once in a traffic jam right at the entrance ramp. Setup of course,they were'nt carrying an umbrella though, just a pair of Mac 10's.They told me to have a nice day and I told them the same. Business people had a different outlook on things back then. Today they just spray everything and it gets messy.In a situation like that it would not what you were carrying,if they wanted you it was over.

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from FirstBubba wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

WAM's "dead" on! The ONLY indication an aggressor should have that you're armed is muzzle flash! It should also be the last thing he/she EVER sees in this world. You shoot until the threat no longer exists or you run out of ammo! If you intend to only "brandish" your weapon, for goodness sake ay least remove the front sight! There'll be less pain when some pi$$ed off jerk shoves it up your butt!!
If your intention is only to "incapacitate", LEAVE THE DAMN THING AT HOME!

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from FirstBubba wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

P.S. - If you don't have the "intestinal fortitude" to "KILL" an aggressor, LEAVE IT AT HOME! We don't need any more stolen/unlicensed handguns arming felons!! Which is exactly where yours will end up if you don't kill the s.o.b.! Then some other innocent citizen gets hurt or killed because you're a spineless simp!

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from FirstBubba wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Wound indeed!!! How redundant!!!

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from whitetailfreek wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Bubba, spot on.

I kind of skimmed through the comments and I agree with some, and do not with others. A pistol in hand, is better than one that's not. So if your choice is with a .22 LR, you stand better odds in a self-defense situation than unarmed. Also, a .22 LR can be lethal within an appropriate range if you are shooting hyper-velocity loads.

That all being said, all of you that conceal carry, if you think for one second that if you pull out your pistol, you can just scare the "bad guy" away, don't fool yourself. A handgun is not to scare someone with. It is a tool to be used in a lethal situation where your life is on the line. In all of my training, if you pull out your sidearm, you only do it knowing that you will be using it.

ALSO, I read something saying you can "DECIDE" to shoot for incapacitation, or "DECIDE" to wound with a .22 LR. That is a horrible strategy, and horrible tactics. If you pull that trigger, you have to have your mindset in the correct place. Using a pistol for self-defense means you are SHOOTING TO KILL OR INCAPACITATE. As Bubba said, and my vast training dictates, you SHOOT TILL THE THREAT IS DESTROYED.

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from whitetailfreek wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Now, back to the question of caliber choice. In my educated opinion, a .22 is NOT an effective man stopper. The smallest caliber I would feel effective with would be a .380 ACP. Due to the price of those shells, and the newer designs of pistols, the smallest caliber choice I go with, is a 9x19mm. You can get a pistol as small as a .380 ACP, but chambered in 9mm.

If I were you, I would first buy a .22 LR pistol. I own one, and they are great and cheap to shoot. Good training for a good price, and I am all about that. BUT, when you get the funds, I would then buy a decent 9mm pistol from any number of manufacturers if you decide to conceal carry.

Glock, S&W, Taurus, Karr, Bersa, Springfield Armory are all great manufactures, and you can find something that will agree with your wallet.

Personally, I usually carry my 1911, chambered in .45 ACP.

"I shoot a .45, because there isn't a .46!"

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from 99explorer wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Carl,
Good idea about the second wallet with the hot dog money. I carry one at times. It is an old wallet that I replaced with a new one so many years ago that it is now in better condition than my new wallet.
It is also loaded with facsimile credit cards that I've gotten in the mail over the years.
For the record, I do not advocate drawing a concealed weapon to scare off potential banditos. In my previous comment, I was describing a practice that seems to be unique to the south Florida area, in which nobody reports the incident to the police for fear of arrest. I have never done it myself.

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from Sourdough Dave wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Issue weapon for the OSS was a .22 auto suppressed. Weapon of choice for Massad operatives is the Beretta Bobcat .22 auto. Weapon of choice for my wife is a Beretta Bobcat .22 auto loaded with CCI Stingers. It has been my experience that getting shot with any caliber will usually instantly change a scum bag's priorities from criminal intent to self preservation and a sudden desire to be most anywhere else. The best gun you can have when you need a gun is the gun you have. A .22 in your pocket will serve you better than that .45 you left back in the truck because it is too big and heavy and it is too hot to wear a jacket to cover it.

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from hengst wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

right on WF! Just my .02..if you shoot to kill you your chances of survivng automatically increase. As has been stated a 22 is a great round but... always use enough gun...a man has gotta know his limitations...speak softly and carry a big (gun) the list goes on forever.
If you don't take your SD and that of your families seriously enough to pack the right caliber (22 in pocket better than 45 in truck etc)and not wanting to shoot to kill then you are going into the situation with a deficit. End all fights swift and decisive.
Either way you are on the right track wanting to protect your family and yourself.

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from FirstBubba wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Capstick tells of an incident where two chaps were elephant hunting. When they found one, they couldn't tell what was what. The one carrying the 22 shot jumbo to make him move but he vamoosed, only to fall over dead within a couple hundred yards. Seems Dumbo had taken a step forward, exposing the thin "underarm" skin. The little bullet slipped between ribs and into the heart. Yes! A twenty two will do the job! For CHL purposes, shoot the heaviest caliber you can handle comfortably. If tha a twenty two, sobeit! A twenty two beats a stick. I carry a hot loaded thirty eight.
NOTE: Only carry hollow cavity ammo in your CHL gun. Not for damage, but to cut down pass-through shots and collateral damage.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Good luck, been nice knowing you!

Knife vs 22

Ya'right!

If the 22 is so good, why did Law Enforcement switch from 9mm to 40 S&W and now there going to the 45ACP

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from squirrelgirl wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I practuce more with the smaller calibers but for personal protection you really can't beat the larger calibers. If I were in a position (God willing it never happens to me) where I had to use a firearm to defend myself you really want some stopping power. Yes most criminals would probably be deterred by the sight of any handgun but its the 1% that you have to worry about. Then you want a gun that's going to rearrange some stuff.

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from scratchgolf72 wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

a .22? i feel like why even bother. at minimum i want a 9mm on me, but id feel most comfortable with a .45 ACP. you get shot with that and your hitting the turf, i just want the knockdown power knowing that i can shoot you almost anywhere and put you on the ground. most people dont keep running at you after taking a .45 to the chest.

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from mspl8sdcntryboy wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

An interview with imprisoned criminals done one time revealed that criminals are not scared of firearms, only people willing to use firearms.

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from 99explorer wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I own a .44 Magnum and a .45 ACP, but I carry a .38 Special.
A bullet between the shirt pockets is the desired objective, and has long been associated with negative health outcomes for the perp.

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from small game sportsman wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I don't know about the .22 1911, but the 9mm version was very inaccurate.

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from Sourdough Dave wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I carry a .380 most of the time because it is light, compact, COMFORTABLE to carry, and is equal in performance to a .38 spl. I have lots of other fine handguns, but I have to work at carrying them concealed. Even my 2" .38 Colt that is a favorite does not conceal as well as my .380 pocket auto. Thus, the .380 gets carried as second nature. As a result I actually have a gun with me when I need a gun. Bigger, heavier guns that deliver more firepower just don't get carried on a regular basis once the new wears off. Any little gun is better than nothing. Nothing is what you have with you if you are not carrying that superior .45 because it just isn't comfortable to carry. My buddy did a survey of hardcore .45 fans and learned that while they love to shoot the .45 and one is always at their bedside, what they actually carry is usually a J-frame .38.

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from Sourdough Dave wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Any little gun, even a .22 if that is all you have, is better than nothing.

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from 007 wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I recently spent a little time with a SWAT cop friend of mine who gave me a polite and professional tongue lashing for carrying a .22 for a CCW when I had a 9mm or a .44 special laying at home. He advises nothing smaller than a 9mm for peace of mind. I haven't carried my little Taurus PT22 since.

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

What all these Gentlemen said. I don't get the logic of carrying a big gun that shoots a small bullet. Ideally a smaller gun that shoots a big bullet.

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from 357 wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

personally if i had to shoot someone with a .22 i would do it however that would NEVER be my first choice. I honestly don't like going any smaller/lighter then a .38 special.

however whatever caliber you shoot it's all about practice practice and practice! be able to aim under duress and hit what you are aiming at.

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from Sol wrote 1 year 12 weeks ago

I love the .22. Inexpensive to own/shoot. For conceal carry? Depends on why you want to conceal carry. Conceal carry presumes you will be out in public and need to shoot at a bad guy. For up close a .22 is a good choice, if you are very good at shooting and can place a head shot for "maximum effectiveness". The Sandy Hook shooter was well armed and wearing some anti ballistic clothing.... a .22 would have been almost useless against him and would have done nothing to protect self/others. A high cal. auto-pistol would have been in order for such a situation.
Walking to your car and you are confronted in the parking lot by someone definitely intending on harm; the .22 is applicable and could do the job. Yet, .9mm or .45 Auto would do a much better job.
For me, I do the following:
1. Home Defense - 12guage shotgun
2. My Truck - 410shotgun/.45LC combo revolver
3. Self - lots of ability to avoid situations, lots of ability at CQC (close quarters combat), a knife or two, and if that all fails, or is obviously useless, .45CCW and .22BUG if/when I carry.

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from 007 wrote 1 year 11 weeks ago

I still stand by my original post, but a gunsmith friend told me over the weekend that Winchester has been doing some R&D into .22LR ammo for self defense.

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from HeartmyHoyt wrote 1 year 2 weeks ago

I would personally never trust a rimfire weapon in a life or death situation, too much potential to just go click. I did have a defense instructor in the academy who swore by his Beretta 21A .22 LR as his concealed carry weapon of choice. Then again he held black belts in several martial arts disciplines, and is likely more dangerous unarmed than the average armed person. Anyway, .22's are great for practicing the fundamentals of shooting and getting in lots of inexpensive trigger time, but larger caliber, center fire weapons are much more practical for conceal carry.

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from Robert French wrote 42 weeks 3 days ago

I didn't see anyone mention the notorious reliability issues of .22 semi-auto's. Most of them you have to experiment and find out what the particular gun loves for ammo (notice I didn't say likes, the .22 autos have to love the ammo). If i were to try carrying .22, it would probably be a 9 shot revolver, or a 6 if i couldn't find a larger capacity revolver. 22 ammo also tends to have duds alot more often than centerfire cartridges, but if you're firing them out of a revolver just pull the trigger again and you're striking a fresh round. Larger center fire calibers, i wouldn't have a problem carrying an auto.

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from Robert French wrote 42 weeks 3 days ago

I didn't see anyone mention the notorious reliability issues of .22 semi-auto's. Most of them you have to experiment and find out what the particular gun loves for ammo (notice I didn't say likes, the .22 autos have to love the ammo). If i were to try carrying .22, it would probably be a 9 shot revolver, or a 6 if i couldn't find a larger capacity revolver. 22 ammo also tends to have duds alot more often than centerfire cartridges, but if you're firing them out of a revolver just pull the trigger again and you're striking a fresh round. Larger center fire calibers, i wouldn't have a problem carrying an auto.

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from 007 wrote 41 weeks 6 days ago

Since my post of last year, I am now looking around for a Glock .45 ACP, still leaving the .22 at home.

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from Bryan Dover wrote 30 weeks 20 hours ago

From PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, you do NOT want a 22LR to stop an attacker. I was once squirrel hunting and a pack of wild dogs sniffed me up. One didn't take a liking to me and snarled and started charging me. I unloaded my rifle on him and it was as if NOTHING was going to stop him. He fell literally 13 ft from my feet. My dad and I counted the bullet holes and I had hit him in the face, head (albeit not kill shots), front chest and legs; 10 shots in all. He weighed about 35 lbs. I can't imagine stopping a 200lb. drug crazed maniac who was hell bent on getting to you. He might eventually expire, but I'm not willing to see how I fared in the meantime....

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from deerhunterrick wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Ok lets get 1 thing very clear.If you brandish any weapon without discharging it,it is the same as if you fired it when you have a CCW. If the outline of your weapon is visible you can be charged with insighting riot.Make sure you understand everything that pertains in your state to a carry permit. The .22LR will indeed kill someone and at 1 time was the #1 hitmans choice and probably still is. But it is totally another story when you are faced with someone hyped up on drugs or someone already knowing they might be confronted with a weapon. Unless you are very good at placement with your shots most people shot with the .22LR don't even know it. They tend to travel inside the body when hitting bone making them fairly dangerous. Yes, I have been shot with more then 1 .22LR . 1 from unknown distance smack dab in the center of the chest and still carry a reminder of just how close it was. And once in the left arm at about 20 feet. That 1 felt almost like getting stunk by a hornet.Other than that, if it wasn't for the blood that is exactly what I would have thought happened. Granted either shot in the head and it would have been over. Now either shot from a 9mm or anything larger and it would have slowed me down quite fast. It's been said that a .22 mag handgun would be suffice at close range, on normal people that is. Someone hyped up is another story. I'll stick to my 10mm or .45acp if you don't mind. When in a pull and shot situation you don't have time to pick and choose your shots.You pull center torso and have at it. Dirty Harry shooting them in the hand or leg don't happen in real life

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Carry the larges caliber handgun that you feel comfortable with it's concealability, i.e. the biggest one you can conceal and carry all the time. The baddest hand cannon is useless if left in your car or at home. Any gun in the hand is better than the ideal weapon elsewhere. Brandishing a weapon is a mere invitation to have it taken from you or shot by a bystander. Draw, aim, fire, holster. Don't give the threat time to react to the drawn weapon. The first thing he should see is your movement to draw and the next and last thing is a muzzle flash and a bang.

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from 99explorer wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

There are times after dark, at some of the rest stops along south Florida highways, when a weary motorist is approached by young hoodlums looking for something more than a cup of coffee.
The motorist removes his holstered weapon in a non-threatening manner, checks to see that it is loaded, and re-holsters it. The young visitors suddenly remember more urgent business elsewhere and take off.
Technically, this tactic would constitute brandishing, and could get you charged with aggravated assault in many places if you have misjudged the situation. But it seems to happen with some regularity in south Florida. Just sayin.

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from Sourdough Dave wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Issue weapon for the OSS was a .22 auto suppressed. Weapon of choice for Massad operatives is the Beretta Bobcat .22 auto. Weapon of choice for my wife is a Beretta Bobcat .22 auto loaded with CCI Stingers. It has been my experience that getting shot with any caliber will usually instantly change a scum bag's priorities from criminal intent to self preservation and a sudden desire to be most anywhere else. The best gun you can have when you need a gun is the gun you have. A .22 in your pocket will serve you better than that .45 you left back in the truck because it is too big and heavy and it is too hot to wear a jacket to cover it.

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from jay wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Do you homework on semi-auto .22 handguns. Many have feed reliability issues. If it were me and I wanted a .22 CCW, i'd get one of the light weight revolvers from ruger (LCR).

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from 99explorer wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Aileen Wuornos, the Florida female serial killer, murdered all seven of her victims with a .22LR revolver.

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from tneal1987 wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I think it would be a good choice, a lot of times in a situation, as you stated, just having a firearm will help to diffuse the situation, if not, they still shoot.
Rick- How have you been in situations that got you shot twice? was it military? If you don't mind me asking anyways, the only person I know of that was shot with a .22 was hit in the foot during a track meet from a bullet that riccoched from a turkey shoot downtown, 3/4 of a mile away. A one in a Billion chance.

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

PS Thank you Tyson for reminding me of a funny story. I don't know if you ever had a gun pointed at you. So let me tell you how it goes. In the 70's I worked for a large utility. Their answer to working in high crime areas was to designate it a two man area. So during summer months they would temp hire some young kid to accompany you on your rounds. So here I am on a blazing hot day in July on West 118 street and 8th avenue. Amongst app 80 other people. Two locals walk up to us carrying an umbrella, not a cloud in the sky. When they get close they show us that aside from the umbrella they also had a sawed off shotgun. My partner immediately throws his hands up. To which the two locals respond " do you think this is a F3CKING STAGE COUCH ROBBERY put your F-ing hands down just give us you wallets". Mind you this is on a crowded city street. I always carried a second wallet with hot dog money. The youngster probably lost the picture of his girl friend. My point you never know

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from whitetailfreek wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Bubba, spot on.

I kind of skimmed through the comments and I agree with some, and do not with others. A pistol in hand, is better than one that's not. So if your choice is with a .22 LR, you stand better odds in a self-defense situation than unarmed. Also, a .22 LR can be lethal within an appropriate range if you are shooting hyper-velocity loads.

That all being said, all of you that conceal carry, if you think for one second that if you pull out your pistol, you can just scare the "bad guy" away, don't fool yourself. A handgun is not to scare someone with. It is a tool to be used in a lethal situation where your life is on the line. In all of my training, if you pull out your sidearm, you only do it knowing that you will be using it.

ALSO, I read something saying you can "DECIDE" to shoot for incapacitation, or "DECIDE" to wound with a .22 LR. That is a horrible strategy, and horrible tactics. If you pull that trigger, you have to have your mindset in the correct place. Using a pistol for self-defense means you are SHOOTING TO KILL OR INCAPACITATE. As Bubba said, and my vast training dictates, you SHOOT TILL THE THREAT IS DESTROYED.

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from whitetailfreek wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Now, back to the question of caliber choice. In my educated opinion, a .22 is NOT an effective man stopper. The smallest caliber I would feel effective with would be a .380 ACP. Due to the price of those shells, and the newer designs of pistols, the smallest caliber choice I go with, is a 9x19mm. You can get a pistol as small as a .380 ACP, but chambered in 9mm.

If I were you, I would first buy a .22 LR pistol. I own one, and they are great and cheap to shoot. Good training for a good price, and I am all about that. BUT, when you get the funds, I would then buy a decent 9mm pistol from any number of manufacturers if you decide to conceal carry.

Glock, S&W, Taurus, Karr, Bersa, Springfield Armory are all great manufactures, and you can find something that will agree with your wallet.

Personally, I usually carry my 1911, chambered in .45 ACP.

"I shoot a .45, because there isn't a .46!"

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from FirstBubba wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Capstick tells of an incident where two chaps were elephant hunting. When they found one, they couldn't tell what was what. The one carrying the 22 shot jumbo to make him move but he vamoosed, only to fall over dead within a couple hundred yards. Seems Dumbo had taken a step forward, exposing the thin "underarm" skin. The little bullet slipped between ribs and into the heart. Yes! A twenty two will do the job! For CHL purposes, shoot the heaviest caliber you can handle comfortably. If tha a twenty two, sobeit! A twenty two beats a stick. I carry a hot loaded thirty eight.
NOTE: Only carry hollow cavity ammo in your CHL gun. Not for damage, but to cut down pass-through shots and collateral damage.

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from squirrelgirl wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I practuce more with the smaller calibers but for personal protection you really can't beat the larger calibers. If I were in a position (God willing it never happens to me) where I had to use a firearm to defend myself you really want some stopping power. Yes most criminals would probably be deterred by the sight of any handgun but its the 1% that you have to worry about. Then you want a gun that's going to rearrange some stuff.

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from mspl8sdcntryboy wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

An interview with imprisoned criminals done one time revealed that criminals are not scared of firearms, only people willing to use firearms.

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from Sourdough Dave wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I carry a .380 most of the time because it is light, compact, COMFORTABLE to carry, and is equal in performance to a .38 spl. I have lots of other fine handguns, but I have to work at carrying them concealed. Even my 2" .38 Colt that is a favorite does not conceal as well as my .380 pocket auto. Thus, the .380 gets carried as second nature. As a result I actually have a gun with me when I need a gun. Bigger, heavier guns that deliver more firepower just don't get carried on a regular basis once the new wears off. Any little gun is better than nothing. Nothing is what you have with you if you are not carrying that superior .45 because it just isn't comfortable to carry. My buddy did a survey of hardcore .45 fans and learned that while they love to shoot the .45 and one is always at their bedside, what they actually carry is usually a J-frame .38.

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from 357 wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

personally if i had to shoot someone with a .22 i would do it however that would NEVER be my first choice. I honestly don't like going any smaller/lighter then a .38 special.

however whatever caliber you shoot it's all about practice practice and practice! be able to aim under duress and hit what you are aiming at.

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from CL3 wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I also heard someone talking about a .22 semi for women to carry. The light recoil would tend give confidence and limit flinching if practiced well with (you should practice with any firearm anyway). I think the theory is right, but as jay above comments, it's a reliability issue, thus not making me feel confident.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Why would you want a 1911 style .22 LR?

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from tyson wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I think you hit it right in the nose deerhunterrick (but ny brandish, I don't mean pull it out and wave it on the highway in road rage, I mean more like pull it on a knife wielding mugger). But your history of being shot twice furthers my point, a .22 doesn't have to be lethal, but it can be if the shooter decides. No one has ever said shoot to scare, or shoot to injure, its always shoot to kill (if I were in the military, a gang, or police force I admit I would a bigger gun). Call me soft, but I think I would prefer to not kill someone if I could otherwise scare them or injure them, but this is all hypothetical mumbo jumbo from me. It would be wise to have immediate stopping force at your disposal. By the way I would want a 1911 .22 mostly for the fun of shooting first (which to me is more fun at 3¢ per shot than 35¢ per shot), and then as a weapon second. I have a Walther p22 already which is fun, but the reliability is too poor to ever consider CCW (thus the desirable upgrade to the more reliable browning 1911).

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from LeVan Goodey wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Here is my .02.
I believe that just about evey firearm in the world has loads that it prefers over others for no rhyme or reason. I have two Walthers, a PP and a P-22 and neither one likes long nosed hollow points such as Federal Spitfires or Reminton Yellowjackets.They both feed Stingers, Aguila SSS, Velocitors, Blasers etc with out any problem. If your P-22 is giving you a bad time the next time you take it apart to clean it check the screw in the right side if the reciever. Making sure that it is tight improved the performance of mine consderably.
At one time showing a fire arm MAY have helped, but I doubt that it would now days, so I advise to pull out your weapon only if you intend to use it and than use it quickly. I worked security for DOE for a while and we carried S&W 686s with Federal +P+ Hydyoshock bullets. We were trained to shoot three times; two to the chest and one to the forehead. Repeast as needed. The philosophy behind that was to defeat body armour and people on drugs. If I had a.22 and the attacker was wearing anying more than a Tee shirt I would forget the two to the chest and put three in his forehead.
There are some high quality small bigger than .22 handguns around. Walther makes a nice 380 and there are even some small 45s (kahr for one), but shooting one might not be that much fun. Pratice practice, practice with what you have until you are confident.

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

All good posts. Your idea of just brandishing will at the least get you arrested for felony menacing. At the worst will get you justifiable killed. Myself I have worked in neighborhoods at all times of the AM&PM that angels have feared to tread. Some even got into the movies. I personally have never seen the need for that "Iron Teddy Bear". All it will do is make you over extend yourself. Unless you have a really good cause and a better lawyer you are just opening yourself to a lot of heart ache. IF you live! Case in point that mess in Florida. As far as your choice in caliber. It was for a time very prevalent in my old neighborhood [Brooklyn]. But the shot was delivered from behind [by surprise]to the base of the skull by a serious individual. Best advice you should develop a winning personality and be aware of your surroundings.

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from deerhunterrick wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Carl that is a great piece of advice.But it is better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6 in my book. I used to frequent Trenton NJ and New Haven ,Conn back in the 70's and making friends was not a good thing to do in either place,lol..Witnessed a walk by on the George Washington bridge once in a traffic jam right at the entrance ramp. Setup of course,they were'nt carrying an umbrella though, just a pair of Mac 10's.They told me to have a nice day and I told them the same. Business people had a different outlook on things back then. Today they just spray everything and it gets messy.In a situation like that it would not what you were carrying,if they wanted you it was over.

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from FirstBubba wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

WAM's "dead" on! The ONLY indication an aggressor should have that you're armed is muzzle flash! It should also be the last thing he/she EVER sees in this world. You shoot until the threat no longer exists or you run out of ammo! If you intend to only "brandish" your weapon, for goodness sake ay least remove the front sight! There'll be less pain when some pi$$ed off jerk shoves it up your butt!!
If your intention is only to "incapacitate", LEAVE THE DAMN THING AT HOME!

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from FirstBubba wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

P.S. - If you don't have the "intestinal fortitude" to "KILL" an aggressor, LEAVE IT AT HOME! We don't need any more stolen/unlicensed handguns arming felons!! Which is exactly where yours will end up if you don't kill the s.o.b.! Then some other innocent citizen gets hurt or killed because you're a spineless simp!

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from FirstBubba wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Wound indeed!!! How redundant!!!

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from 99explorer wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Carl,
Good idea about the second wallet with the hot dog money. I carry one at times. It is an old wallet that I replaced with a new one so many years ago that it is now in better condition than my new wallet.
It is also loaded with facsimile credit cards that I've gotten in the mail over the years.
For the record, I do not advocate drawing a concealed weapon to scare off potential banditos. In my previous comment, I was describing a practice that seems to be unique to the south Florida area, in which nobody reports the incident to the police for fear of arrest. I have never done it myself.

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from hengst wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

right on WF! Just my .02..if you shoot to kill you your chances of survivng automatically increase. As has been stated a 22 is a great round but... always use enough gun...a man has gotta know his limitations...speak softly and carry a big (gun) the list goes on forever.
If you don't take your SD and that of your families seriously enough to pack the right caliber (22 in pocket better than 45 in truck etc)and not wanting to shoot to kill then you are going into the situation with a deficit. End all fights swift and decisive.
Either way you are on the right track wanting to protect your family and yourself.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Good luck, been nice knowing you!

Knife vs 22

Ya'right!

If the 22 is so good, why did Law Enforcement switch from 9mm to 40 S&W and now there going to the 45ACP

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from scratchgolf72 wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

a .22? i feel like why even bother. at minimum i want a 9mm on me, but id feel most comfortable with a .45 ACP. you get shot with that and your hitting the turf, i just want the knockdown power knowing that i can shoot you almost anywhere and put you on the ground. most people dont keep running at you after taking a .45 to the chest.

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from 99explorer wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I own a .44 Magnum and a .45 ACP, but I carry a .38 Special.
A bullet between the shirt pockets is the desired objective, and has long been associated with negative health outcomes for the perp.

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from Sourdough Dave wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

Any little gun, even a .22 if that is all you have, is better than nothing.

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from 007 wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I recently spent a little time with a SWAT cop friend of mine who gave me a polite and professional tongue lashing for carrying a .22 for a CCW when I had a 9mm or a .44 special laying at home. He advises nothing smaller than a 9mm for peace of mind. I haven't carried my little Taurus PT22 since.

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

What all these Gentlemen said. I don't get the logic of carrying a big gun that shoots a small bullet. Ideally a smaller gun that shoots a big bullet.

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from Sol wrote 1 year 12 weeks ago

I love the .22. Inexpensive to own/shoot. For conceal carry? Depends on why you want to conceal carry. Conceal carry presumes you will be out in public and need to shoot at a bad guy. For up close a .22 is a good choice, if you are very good at shooting and can place a head shot for "maximum effectiveness". The Sandy Hook shooter was well armed and wearing some anti ballistic clothing.... a .22 would have been almost useless against him and would have done nothing to protect self/others. A high cal. auto-pistol would have been in order for such a situation.
Walking to your car and you are confronted in the parking lot by someone definitely intending on harm; the .22 is applicable and could do the job. Yet, .9mm or .45 Auto would do a much better job.
For me, I do the following:
1. Home Defense - 12guage shotgun
2. My Truck - 410shotgun/.45LC combo revolver
3. Self - lots of ability to avoid situations, lots of ability at CQC (close quarters combat), a knife or two, and if that all fails, or is obviously useless, .45CCW and .22BUG if/when I carry.

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from 007 wrote 1 year 11 weeks ago

I still stand by my original post, but a gunsmith friend told me over the weekend that Winchester has been doing some R&D into .22LR ammo for self defense.

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from HeartmyHoyt wrote 1 year 2 weeks ago

I would personally never trust a rimfire weapon in a life or death situation, too much potential to just go click. I did have a defense instructor in the academy who swore by his Beretta 21A .22 LR as his concealed carry weapon of choice. Then again he held black belts in several martial arts disciplines, and is likely more dangerous unarmed than the average armed person. Anyway, .22's are great for practicing the fundamentals of shooting and getting in lots of inexpensive trigger time, but larger caliber, center fire weapons are much more practical for conceal carry.

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from Robert French wrote 42 weeks 3 days ago

I didn't see anyone mention the notorious reliability issues of .22 semi-auto's. Most of them you have to experiment and find out what the particular gun loves for ammo (notice I didn't say likes, the .22 autos have to love the ammo). If i were to try carrying .22, it would probably be a 9 shot revolver, or a 6 if i couldn't find a larger capacity revolver. 22 ammo also tends to have duds alot more often than centerfire cartridges, but if you're firing them out of a revolver just pull the trigger again and you're striking a fresh round. Larger center fire calibers, i wouldn't have a problem carrying an auto.

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from Robert French wrote 42 weeks 3 days ago

I didn't see anyone mention the notorious reliability issues of .22 semi-auto's. Most of them you have to experiment and find out what the particular gun loves for ammo (notice I didn't say likes, the .22 autos have to love the ammo). If i were to try carrying .22, it would probably be a 9 shot revolver, or a 6 if i couldn't find a larger capacity revolver. 22 ammo also tends to have duds alot more often than centerfire cartridges, but if you're firing them out of a revolver just pull the trigger again and you're striking a fresh round. Larger center fire calibers, i wouldn't have a problem carrying an auto.

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from 007 wrote 41 weeks 6 days ago

Since my post of last year, I am now looking around for a Glock .45 ACP, still leaving the .22 at home.

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from Bryan Dover wrote 30 weeks 20 hours ago

From PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, you do NOT want a 22LR to stop an attacker. I was once squirrel hunting and a pack of wild dogs sniffed me up. One didn't take a liking to me and snarled and started charging me. I unloaded my rifle on him and it was as if NOTHING was going to stop him. He fell literally 13 ft from my feet. My dad and I counted the bullet holes and I had hit him in the face, head (albeit not kill shots), front chest and legs; 10 shots in all. He weighed about 35 lbs. I can't imagine stopping a 200lb. drug crazed maniac who was hell bent on getting to you. He might eventually expire, but I'm not willing to see how I fared in the meantime....

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from small game sportsman wrote 1 year 45 weeks ago

I don't know about the .22 1911, but the 9mm version was very inaccurate.

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