Q:
BigBboy25 and I got into a good debate over what is better, the 300 Win Mag or the 338 Win Mag. While stationed in Alaska, I found the same debate on the range as well and did it get heated! So what is better? We look at the Foot pound Energy and trajectory and make a judgment on that. Yet we leave out the Caliber plus diameter of the mushroom plus velocity causing a certain size wound channel and hydrostatic shock also come into play and let us not forget how much penetration is just right. So the question is, do you look solely at the foot pound of energy and bullet drop or do you also look at how large the wound channel will be and how much hydrostatic shock it will cause and penetration. What say you!
Question by Clay Cooper. Uploaded on November 01, 2009
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Answers (23)
I'm partial to the 338 because other than a 22 it's the first rifle I ever owned. There isn't much you can't do with it.
"Stick with what 'ya know". I've used all three of the .308 varants to change now. Besides got the CRAP kicked out of me as a kid by a .338 "mountain rifle" .
I've never regreted NOT lookin' back Mr Cooper !
My dad owns a .300 win mag and it's a beast of a cartridge. It'll take anything down with the right placement, so I don't see any need for a .338. But honestly, I'd rather stick with my .300 WSM just so I don't have to cry every time I sight it in. lol
Either one 300 Mags and 338's are a bit much off the bench!
Hey clay do you think there is anything better than either of those two rounds we were discussing?
BigBboy25
Depends how much punishment you want to take!
To answer your question, I have to say the 264 Win Magnum with a good constructed bullet to perform at those ranges with high Ballistic Coefficient! My personal opinion on this is were the Firearms Community has turned a blind eye to. For one reason perhaps is because the 264 Win Mag is really hard on barrels burning them out!!!
I must refere back to what ken.mcloud said and said it best!
“So, I think that the superior killing power of larger rounds is largely in our heads.(likely testosterone induced) A flat-shooting round that you can accurately place will produce as many if not more "bang-flop" kills as a heavy caliber round.”
OK, I'M GUILTY!
Have you tried 130 grain Hornady's in your 300 yet? When I owned a 300 Win Mag, that was my favorite round, exceptionally flat shooting with plenty of knock down on Mule Deer and noticeably less kick!
If I was a Ammunition Manufacturer I would offer a line of 130 grain for the 30 cals. 30-06 spits it out as fast as a 223 round and 300 Win Mag at 3500fps darn near as fast as a 22-250! And pure hell on Coyotes!
I already have a name for that line, but I'm not telling!
Clay we have had this discussion before. I have had great success with both the 300 Win Mag and the 338 Win Mag. Have also used most of the variations of these two fine calibers, and always return to the two originals. Less recoil and great results. I cannot tell a lick of difference between the two when it comes to killing animals, so generally go with the 300, a little less recoil. In Africa, one of the two is my light rifle. Have taken bear with both and sheep with both. Prefer the heavier bullets in both calibers. 180 and 200 in the 300 and the 250 in the 338. The light 300 bullets blow up small animals and sometimes under perform at short ranges.
The 264 Win Mag has always intrigued me, but the one I have just has not been too accurate. But what do I know, if it was not for you I couldn't spell hydrostatic shock.
Now I am just about recoil proof but the most unpleasent rifle I ever had the privliage of pulling the trigger on was a 8 1/2 pound 338 Win mag and having been intrieged with the 375H&H I went with that and find very pleasent to shoot both on the bench and off, and will do any thing a 338 will and more. Just my 2 cents worth.
Happy Myles yo crack me up!
idduckhntr, I've shot just about everything up to 460 Weatherby Mag off the bench, but the one that thumps me the most is the 12 gauge 3 1/2 magnum!
Clay I never did have a problem with 3 1/2 in but never shot one off the bench eithier, and I have to laugh when people tell me a 375 has no vel, A friend of mine shoots a 235 grain Barnes at 3110fps another shoots the same bullet at 3100 and mine are just a tad shy of 3000. shoot flat and and very accruate.
idduckhntr,
My son's favorite elk round is the 235 grain Barnes in the 375
Clay,
I went to the range Saturday morning and returned Sunday morning to find the bench I used the day before splattered with blood. After I left Saturday a chap shooting a 460 Weatherby got "kissed" by the scope.
GOD BLESS you Mr. Myles !
I was witness to someone shooting (for the first time) a 338 Lapua - and they leaned in too much on the scope.....OUCH!!!! He took it in stride I must say, and wore it like a badge of honor!
And on one of the recent 'Lock and Load with R.Lee Ermey' episodes he got gashed by the scope shooting a .50 I believe...I was surprised they didn't edit that out! And to his credit Ermey kept shooting, blood and all!
Happy I was worried about the accuarcy with the 235s but found the load my gun likes and am very impressed shoots 3/4 in groups at a 100 and with my 260 Noslers takes the center out of the target cant ask for any more now if I can find a critter to use it on I would be really happy.
I like the 6.5's as well clay, but I would choose a 6.5x284 over the .264 Win. Mag. I really can't give you a good reason why. I guess I would say because of its dominance presence on the 1000 yard line nowadays. Both are good cartridges I'll say that.
I've never tried 130gr. Hornadys out of my .300 Win. Mag. Only bullets I've used were some 190 SMK for barrel break in and now all I shoot are 200 grain accubonds.
Happy Myles,
had a Colonel shooting a 340 Weatherby Mag scope self destruct and he replaced it with a TASCO, you know the rest of the story! Any how, I let him barrow my 03-A3 30-06 loaded with 190's at 2820ish fps and upon returning from his sheep hunt went and bought a 30-06!
BigBboy25
I acn see why you would prefer the 6.5x284 over the .264 Win. Mag, barrel life!
I shoot a .300 Dakota that seems to me to have a little less recoil than the .300 Win Mag. I've been happy with it and thanks to Clay's advice am experimenting with 130 and 135g bullets. Haven't shot anything but paper with them yet though... the 135's are going 3850... I'm just hoping they don't splatter on a big buck's shoulder at that speed. I like the .338 performance but the recoil is just too much for me... I like to shoot my rifles a lot and that is just a bruiser... If I lived in Alaska, I would maybe go for it. Instead, like idduckhntr, I shoot a .375 H&H. I like that a LOT and shoot prettly low recoil 235g bullets most of the time. Mine also get about 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards from 2800-3000 fps. I may try one on a deer this year just fof the fun of it. As opposed to the sharp rap of the .338, the .375 seems more like a push like a 12 gauge slug even with 350g bullets.
I like to have confidence that the bullet is doing what it is designed for at the velocity it reaches at range. Pass throughs without expansion do kill, if in the right spot - and that is where a bigger diameter bullet is nice. But I like to use the bullet in its working range, and that includes close as well as long shots.
MLH.
Your comment regarding using bullets within their working range including close as well as long shots rings true to me. I have found in my 60 plus years of big game hunting most shots are at close range and only a few bragging shots at long range. A slightly heavier bullet for caliber creates less mischief at closer situations. I have rarely had to field dress a paper target at any distance, close or far.
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"Stick with what 'ya know". I've used all three of the .308 varants to change now. Besides got the CRAP kicked out of me as a kid by a .338 "mountain rifle" .
I've never regreted NOT lookin' back Mr Cooper !
My dad owns a .300 win mag and it's a beast of a cartridge. It'll take anything down with the right placement, so I don't see any need for a .338. But honestly, I'd rather stick with my .300 WSM just so I don't have to cry every time I sight it in. lol
Either one 300 Mags and 338's are a bit much off the bench!
BigBboy25
Depends how much punishment you want to take!
To answer your question, I have to say the 264 Win Magnum with a good constructed bullet to perform at those ranges with high Ballistic Coefficient! My personal opinion on this is were the Firearms Community has turned a blind eye to. For one reason perhaps is because the 264 Win Mag is really hard on barrels burning them out!!!
I must refere back to what ken.mcloud said and said it best!
“So, I think that the superior killing power of larger rounds is largely in our heads.(likely testosterone induced) A flat-shooting round that you can accurately place will produce as many if not more "bang-flop" kills as a heavy caliber round.”
Clay we have had this discussion before. I have had great success with both the 300 Win Mag and the 338 Win Mag. Have also used most of the variations of these two fine calibers, and always return to the two originals. Less recoil and great results. I cannot tell a lick of difference between the two when it comes to killing animals, so generally go with the 300, a little less recoil. In Africa, one of the two is my light rifle. Have taken bear with both and sheep with both. Prefer the heavier bullets in both calibers. 180 and 200 in the 300 and the 250 in the 338. The light 300 bullets blow up small animals and sometimes under perform at short ranges.
The 264 Win Mag has always intrigued me, but the one I have just has not been too accurate. But what do I know, if it was not for you I couldn't spell hydrostatic shock.
Now I am just about recoil proof but the most unpleasent rifle I ever had the privliage of pulling the trigger on was a 8 1/2 pound 338 Win mag and having been intrieged with the 375H&H I went with that and find very pleasent to shoot both on the bench and off, and will do any thing a 338 will and more. Just my 2 cents worth.
I'm partial to the 338 because other than a 22 it's the first rifle I ever owned. There isn't much you can't do with it.
Hey clay do you think there is anything better than either of those two rounds we were discussing?
Clay I never did have a problem with 3 1/2 in but never shot one off the bench eithier, and I have to laugh when people tell me a 375 has no vel, A friend of mine shoots a 235 grain Barnes at 3110fps another shoots the same bullet at 3100 and mine are just a tad shy of 3000. shoot flat and and very accruate.
idduckhntr,
My son's favorite elk round is the 235 grain Barnes in the 375
I like to have confidence that the bullet is doing what it is designed for at the velocity it reaches at range. Pass throughs without expansion do kill, if in the right spot - and that is where a bigger diameter bullet is nice. But I like to use the bullet in its working range, and that includes close as well as long shots.
MLH.
Your comment regarding using bullets within their working range including close as well as long shots rings true to me. I have found in my 60 plus years of big game hunting most shots are at close range and only a few bragging shots at long range. A slightly heavier bullet for caliber creates less mischief at closer situations. I have rarely had to field dress a paper target at any distance, close or far.
OK, I'M GUILTY!
Have you tried 130 grain Hornady's in your 300 yet? When I owned a 300 Win Mag, that was my favorite round, exceptionally flat shooting with plenty of knock down on Mule Deer and noticeably less kick!
If I was a Ammunition Manufacturer I would offer a line of 130 grain for the 30 cals. 30-06 spits it out as fast as a 223 round and 300 Win Mag at 3500fps darn near as fast as a 22-250! And pure hell on Coyotes!
I already have a name for that line, but I'm not telling!
Happy Myles yo crack me up!
idduckhntr, I've shot just about everything up to 460 Weatherby Mag off the bench, but the one that thumps me the most is the 12 gauge 3 1/2 magnum!
Clay,
I went to the range Saturday morning and returned Sunday morning to find the bench I used the day before splattered with blood. After I left Saturday a chap shooting a 460 Weatherby got "kissed" by the scope.
GOD BLESS you Mr. Myles !
I was witness to someone shooting (for the first time) a 338 Lapua - and they leaned in too much on the scope.....OUCH!!!! He took it in stride I must say, and wore it like a badge of honor!
And on one of the recent 'Lock and Load with R.Lee Ermey' episodes he got gashed by the scope shooting a .50 I believe...I was surprised they didn't edit that out! And to his credit Ermey kept shooting, blood and all!
Happy I was worried about the accuarcy with the 235s but found the load my gun likes and am very impressed shoots 3/4 in groups at a 100 and with my 260 Noslers takes the center out of the target cant ask for any more now if I can find a critter to use it on I would be really happy.
I like the 6.5's as well clay, but I would choose a 6.5x284 over the .264 Win. Mag. I really can't give you a good reason why. I guess I would say because of its dominance presence on the 1000 yard line nowadays. Both are good cartridges I'll say that.
I've never tried 130gr. Hornadys out of my .300 Win. Mag. Only bullets I've used were some 190 SMK for barrel break in and now all I shoot are 200 grain accubonds.
Happy Myles,
had a Colonel shooting a 340 Weatherby Mag scope self destruct and he replaced it with a TASCO, you know the rest of the story! Any how, I let him barrow my 03-A3 30-06 loaded with 190's at 2820ish fps and upon returning from his sheep hunt went and bought a 30-06!
BigBboy25
I acn see why you would prefer the 6.5x284 over the .264 Win. Mag, barrel life!
I shoot a .300 Dakota that seems to me to have a little less recoil than the .300 Win Mag. I've been happy with it and thanks to Clay's advice am experimenting with 130 and 135g bullets. Haven't shot anything but paper with them yet though... the 135's are going 3850... I'm just hoping they don't splatter on a big buck's shoulder at that speed. I like the .338 performance but the recoil is just too much for me... I like to shoot my rifles a lot and that is just a bruiser... If I lived in Alaska, I would maybe go for it. Instead, like idduckhntr, I shoot a .375 H&H. I like that a LOT and shoot prettly low recoil 235g bullets most of the time. Mine also get about 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards from 2800-3000 fps. I may try one on a deer this year just fof the fun of it. As opposed to the sharp rap of the .338, the .375 seems more like a push like a 12 gauge slug even with 350g bullets.
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