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Question by the cowboy. Uploaded on June 20, 2010
Not many loads of any description are good 600 yard loads for a .30-06 except for punching paper.
The 168grFMJ target round,Ifn y'all are shooting paper at 600 yards.
WAM, how do you like your CROW!
165 to 190's
The Palma Team back in 94 was shooting 308's on the 1000 yard line with 155 grain with 1-11 twist barrels.
I'm waiting WAM, how do you want your CROW served! LOL!
The .30/06 has plenty of energy to take game at 600 yards. As for loads, I don't think I'd trust factory loads for that range.
I shoot factory rounds out of my .30-06 and I've switched through a few different rounds that came highly recommended and I'd say you'd be hard pressed to get a factory round that's gonna be good out much past 450 maybe 500. You would probably have enough killing power for smaller game out past 600 but I wouldn't trust that you would have the requisite accuracy.
Grilled, but I qualified that with "except for punching paper". I don't think the .30-06 is much good for hunting at 600 yards. Shooting matches are a different game. It will kill any paper taget you can hit at 1,000 yards! LOL
Federal produces factory loads with premium and non-premium bullets as well that will better most hand loads these days. Store bought ammo has come a long way as have expectations of those buying it.
I agree with WMH in that I do not believe the 30/06 is a capable 600 yard cartridge for big game hunting. No doubt there is plenty there for punching paper.
I would look at loads with bullets in the 165 to 190 grain weight range.
Oh... Clay, grilled breast cutlets of crow are pretty good especially if they have been feeding on pecans! Make sure to baste them with lightly with butter to prevent them from drying out during the grilling process. The old Italian dressing marinade trick works well in this application.
Agreed. I have worked up my big 7 to 72.5 grains of Reloder 22 and had to say whoa right at 3,200fps. 73 grains was a tad too much. Now to see how well they will group.
in WWII they used the springfields at 600 yards and they worked just fine though.
There is a great difference in shooting a combat rifle which is used for creating casualties, not necessarily dead soldiers, and a hunting rifle.
In hunting we strive for quick clean kills on game animals. Many individuals will have significant problems putting lead in the pie plate at 300 yards much less 600 yards. Long range skill with a rifle is not something that is born from a box of shells it is born from hard work and practice and also good equipment.
I've been berated by several individuals on this site who advocate shooing game at ranges out to 1000 yards because I disagree with them. That is a personal choice on both sides of the fence. If you choose to take shots at 600 yards at game animals you should certainly involve yourself in much practice at known yardages and make sure you are up to the task. Accurate shooting at long range involves much more than a box of ammo.
There is no excuse in needlessly wounding a game animal by trying to shoot too far.
My dad shot his bull this last year at 590 yards with his .30/06 and a 180 grain accubond and dropped it in its tracks. Bullet hit the bull high in the shoulder, went through both lungs through the opposite shoulder and stopped just under the skin on the off side. Retained just under 80% of its weight. I don't think the '06 will have a problem taking game at 600 yards if the shooter does his part.
(Here comes the argument, I'm gettin' that feelin' in my trick knee again)
All I can say is "wow". Obviously you have inherited traits that make you world class. He is obviosly one heck of a shot to compensate for 89.5 inches (14.5 moa)of drop from a 200 yard zero. At 1,490 fps, I doubt it expanded much at all and lost much weight.
No argument at all....
well, I think there is a pretty good argument here. 14.5 MOA adjustment on the scope is not much, dial your scope for the correct setting and dial for the wind and aim right on. No guessing involved.
Second, The impact velocity was over 2000 FPS, it is going 1800 FPS at 800 yards.He has a 28" bbl on his rifle and is pushing 180's at 2911 fps, that is with Nosler's listed Max load of IMR 4350.
We test our dope on our rifles all the way out to 1200 yards so elevation is not a problem. The hard part is wind. We had 2 MOA on his rifle for windage at the shot and it was just enough, not perfect but an elks vitals are quite forgiving, he said he held in the crease of the shoulder but he hit right on the shoulder, I guess another quarter or half minute would have been a better adjustment but the bull DRT.
If you put the time into checking your dope and practicing under field conditions, you make make ethical shots at longer distances. Also, if you select cartridges and bullets that have less drift, then you're more likely to have more success at longer distances. Is the '06 the best cartridge for long range, probably not, but, it will definitely reach out and touch something with plenty of energy. I have a .300 Win. Mag. that I shoot 210 Berger's out of and at 1000 yards, I have to dial 20.25 MOA up from a 200 yard zero, 600 yards is a mere 8.25 MOA up. It's not about how much drop your bullet has, it;s about wind drift, energy and terminal velocity. If you know how to use your equipment and have the right equipment, a 600 yard shot is fairly easy.
I know you wont agree WAM, but this is what I think, and I won't take a shot at an animal if I don't feel I can make an ethical first shot, if there is any doubt I will wound the animal, I'll pass the shot. I'm not saying you should go out hunting looking for a 600, 800,or 1000 yard shot, but if you can make a 600 yard one shot kill, I have no problem with it.
A 30-06 with a 180g bullet at 2700 fps muzzle velocity has plenty of energy to dispatch an elk at 600 yards. Personally, I would rather have BigBboy25's .300 Winny though for a little more energy. The issue is accuracy though. A lot of people have the equipment and the practice to hit very accurately at that range. I shoot around 2 inch groups at that range and I'll tell you that an elk's chest is a LOT bigger than a silver dollar. Most of us on this site either don't have the equipment or have not had the practice at 600 yards to be confident in their shot. That is just FINE and I applaud all for not taking the shot without complete confidence. I feel much more confident about the 30-06 at 600 yards than I do with a bow at 25 yards. However, most of us have good equipment and have practiced with a bow and we are therefore confident. I suggest we all take a few hundred rounds of good ammo and practice at 600 yards and then report back. I would be anxious to see how many opinions change.
I am not agreeing or disagreeing. I find that the data you are presenting for the .30-06 is incorrect. There is nothing I can say that will make any difference here. Nosler data does not list above 2,835 for IMR4350 in a .30-06 AI even and Hodgdon 2,752 fps for IMR 4350. A 28 inch barrel is not optimum for that cartridge, but maybe it works for you.
Well, I don't know what I can say WAM to convince you the velocity he's getting out of his '06 is correct. All I can say is that's the velocity he's getting. I don't know if having a Hart or Krieger barrel adds velocity or not but he does have a Hart on his rifle, if that makes any difference I do not know.
Also, I don't know what atmospheric inputs you had when you ran your ballistics but the bull was taken at somewhere between 8000'-9000', so if you ran your chart for sea level and standard atmospheric conditions, then I could see where you got your numbers.
I think DakotaMan is right when he says if people practiced at 600 yards like they do with their bows, they'd feel just as confident with a 600 yard shot as they would with a 30-40 yard shot with their bow. I won't shoot 40 yards at game with my bow, I limit myself to a maximum of 30 yards, the reason being I don't feel comfortable past that. But give me a 600-800 yard shot and my .300 Win. Mag. and I have all the confidence in the world.
BTW DakotaMan, I just came off the hill setting a 9"-11" gong at 1400 yards, i'm hoping to get out there this week to shoot it with my .300. I think it will be quite a humbling experience, but fun none the less. Also, I went up to Hotchkiss, CO this past weekend for a high power match, and they have a group record at 1328 yards and an F-Class shooter just shattered it with a 5 shot group that measured 6.850". I've not tried it yet, but I think he set the bar really high.
The numbers jive at 8000 ft elevation standard atmospherics. Velocity is what it is. No worries, just seems a bit fast for Nosler book data.
BB25; can't wait to see how you do with the new gong. That is out there a lick. I sure wish I had somewhere handy to shoot that far. I am pretty well limited to 600 yards. I am going to visit South Dakota over the holidays and if I have room in the car for my rifle, I will sure get a little long range shooting in. The 600 yard range is getting a little boring. I'm also dreaming of a Nightforce scope but can sure live with my Leupold.
I hear you on the Nightforce, I'm in the same boat as you on one of those.
I do consider myself lucky to be able to drive 15 minutes and be able to shoot as far as I want. It is very convenient and a lot of fun.
thanks for your help all.
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