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Q:
Guys help me understand why the 25/06 is spoken of as if it's that much faster than other rounds? I talking about with bullets for deer.(100-120gr)When loading the 7mm/08 for my nephew, the barnes manual list 120grTXS at 3080fps with RL15 max as there best load.His gun shoots this load great.They list the 25/06 with 117grTSX at 2996-3161fps and that bullet is 5gr. lighter.My 30/06 with 130gr.TSX/win748max load list fps as 3308 and my rifle loves this load and is faster than either.Is the speed from the varmint bullets or bullets less than 100gr that you gain more speed?

Question by stanleyda. Uploaded on March 07, 2010

Answers (20)

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from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I never saw it referred to as faster. Military rounds became very popular in this country because that was all anybody knew. It's a traditional round, and a lot of old-timers use them. There are better choices for efficiency. Got no room to talk. I have owned two .30-06's, and I had one wildcatted to near-magnum performance. They are very good and well-known. It's mostly just hard to break tradition. I am very partial to another military cartridge wildcatted in 1957. That's right, it's over 50 years old! By Roy Weatherby under military contract: The .30-378.

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from Del in KS wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

The 25-06 gives you just about all you can get in velocity from 257 diameter bullets without being overbore in powder capacity. It is very flat shooting and kills like a 270 Win. Recoil is lighter than 270, 30-06, etc. There is a mountain of usable brass out there for reloading. etc, etc. The 257 Wby uses too much powder which shortens barrel life, costs like heck and the bullet guts a deer sized animal on contact. There is nothing wrong with the rounds you mention but they are not actually the same. Each has it's own pluses and minuses such as heavier recoil, or hard to find ammo.
BTW I have the Barnes no 4 manual and it is excellent. There is a load in there for my 350 Remington magnum that is head and shoulders above factory ammo (200 gr TSX 64 gr Ramshot TAC for 2940 fps). My Chronograph indicated got 2910 on a very cold day. Factory stat is 2750 fps for 200 grain Core Lokt bullet. Maybe you can push a TSX bullet faster than others with some of the newest powders we have available. Anyway that seems to be what I am getting.

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from steve182 wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Aside from being fast and flat, the .25-06 offers good sectional density and ballistic coefficient, i've heard and read.

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

The .25-06 was first introduced by Mr. A.O.Niedner some time in the 1920s, as the .25 Nieder. There were other variations. At that time, it was the premier wildcat, being much faster than it's parent cartrige, the .30-'06 Springfield. Remington standardized the cartrige in 1969, and started to chamber rifles for it. The .25-06 actually competes with the .270 in some areas, with less recoil. Most of the new cartriges introduced in the .257/7mm class offer ballistics "like the .25-06." Greater speed can be coaxed out of the .25-06,by handloading. Remember that the factory rounds are somewhat loaded down. The .25-06 was one of the first, and is still one of the best.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

To put it simply, the 25-06 is like crossing the trajectory of a 22-250 with the knock down performance of the 270 Winchester. In other words, you get part of both cartridges in one and what makes the 25-06 most appealing besides it's performance is the availability of 270, 280 and 30-06 cases to make 25-06 from.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

******WARNING******

Pushing the 25-06 in custom built rifles maybe hazardous to your health due to metallurgy and heat treatment.

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from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I really like the 25-06 with the 100 gr. Nosler partition for deer. I load IMR 4350 for a chronograph velocity of 3280 fps and a chamber pressure of app.52,000 psi. This is a load that really performs at long range on targets. I can't tell you the results on living animals because I don't shoot them that far away but I can tell you that my son and I can hit balloons and clay targets pretty well at very long range with this round. The recoil from a prone position is very mild. The rifle is on a military mauser action that I built back around 1984-87.

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from Cgull wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I have no experience with the 25-06 but I have noticed that the loads I"m loading for my 270 wsm with 62.4 gr IMr 4350 should push the 110 v-max at 3300 fps and 57.6 gr IMR 4350 should push the 130 gr SST up to 3000 fps. I was going to get a 25-06 untill I found that I could almost reach the same velocities with my 270's.

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from stanleyda wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Cgull touched on what my point was,I too was beginning to think I needed or wanted a 25/06. When I started looking at the manuals and ballistic charts, I was surprized to find the 25/06 is only faster and flatter shooting with the lighter rounds.With a 6mm rem,270win,7rem mag and 30/06 already and none of them I want to part with,I would gain little or nothing.Cgull check out the 110gr.TSX in 270win average fps of all powders listed max, 3477fps.That's 161 fps faster than average for all powders listed for the 25/06 with a 100gr.TSX.Barnes #4 manual.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I think I'll sit this one out. :-)

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from Dixie Lee wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Me two lets sit this one out.:-)

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from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I don't have a dod in this hunt! :-)

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from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

dawg*

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from DakotaMan wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

For me, the noteworthy speed of the 25-06 comes with its ability to shoot smaller bullets at really high speeds... Bullets like the Hornady 75g hollow point and the Combined Technology 85g. Using book load recipes in a 24" barrel, they move at 3750 and 3650 fps respectively. I have shot a 25-06 for over 45 years and have experimeted a LOT. I can safely get 75g bullets going 4100 fps in my 24" Weatherby bolt rifle but generally shoot them around 3750 so they are not overbore. With a 26" or 27" barrel, they move about 150 fps faster. It makes hitting a running coyote/antelope or a 500 yard prairie dog much easier. The penetration and knock down capability of all the .25 bullets is noticeably better than the .270 or .308 bullets of similar weight because of their relative length (equating to higher ballistic coefficient). Therefore, you will find that a 100g 25-06 bullet does about the same damage to a deer and holds its long range speed about like a 165g 30-06 bullet does. To compare speed, you should be comparing a 100 grain 25-06 bullet at say 3250 or 3350 to a 165g 30-06 bullet which goes about 3050 fps. We now have great 110g and 130g bullets for the 30-06 so it can move with plenty of speed too. I still like the 25-06 with smaller bullets though because recoil is practically non-existant and I can shoot them all day on a prairie dog town with much less fear for ricochetes. If I were shooting elk and moose, I would choose the 30-06. If deer were the largest game I hunted and I wanted to shoot varmints too, I would choose the 25-06 hands down. Some rifles move faster but the 25-06 gives you top notch speed and amazing killing power for everything from prairie dogs to the largest of deer.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

That's a pretty sporty .30-06 load at 3,050 fps.

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from crm3006 wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Very, very sporty!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Who said an Old Dog 30-06 can't do it?

110 GR. HDY SP

IMR IMR 4895

min. 56.0gr. 3303fps 48,200 PSI
Max. 59.8gr 3505fps 57,300 PSI

___________________________________

**Favorite load**

130 GR. SPR HP

IMR IMR 4064

Min. 51.0gr 3070fps 49,500 PSI
Max. 54.5gr 3243fps 58,200 PSI

___________________________________

150 GR. NOS BT

Hodgdon H4350

Min. 56.0gr 2792fps 37,100 CUP
Max. 62.0C 3068fps 48,400 CUP

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

165g 30-06 bullet which goes about 3050 fps?

Plausible with components, rifle and temperature etc

_____________________________

165 GR. SIE SPBT

Hodgdon H4350

Min. 53.0gr 2678fps 38,400 CUP
Max. 59.0gr 2938fps 49,400 CUP

__________________________

165 GR. SIE SPBT

IMR IMR 4350

Min. 56.0gr 2746fps 48,100 PSI
Max. 60.0C 2934fps 57,600 PSI

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from stanleyda wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

DakotaMan,I think your opening statement is right on, those are blazeing fast with the 75gr..Clay said it's like crossing the 22/250 and 270win.That's right on it seems too,you keep the speed of the 22/250 but lose some of the bullet weight of the 270win to keep the speed. Thanks Everyone for the Answers

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from DakotaMan wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Thanks Stanley... I am always amazed that most factory loads available for the 25-06 come in 100g and 120g bullets. Although these are good deer loads, the real performance and fun come with the smaller bullets and you can hardly find them on the shelf. For WAM and CRM... good catch... that WAS a sporty load in a 30-06. I was giving it the max velocity for a 30-06 using a load with a moly coated bullet with a max book load of 62 grains of IMR4831 (which is listed at 3090 fps). A regular copper jacket 165g bullet maxes out at 2980 with 60g of RL19.

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from Del in KS wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

The 25-06 gives you just about all you can get in velocity from 257 diameter bullets without being overbore in powder capacity. It is very flat shooting and kills like a 270 Win. Recoil is lighter than 270, 30-06, etc. There is a mountain of usable brass out there for reloading. etc, etc. The 257 Wby uses too much powder which shortens barrel life, costs like heck and the bullet guts a deer sized animal on contact. There is nothing wrong with the rounds you mention but they are not actually the same. Each has it's own pluses and minuses such as heavier recoil, or hard to find ammo.
BTW I have the Barnes no 4 manual and it is excellent. There is a load in there for my 350 Remington magnum that is head and shoulders above factory ammo (200 gr TSX 64 gr Ramshot TAC for 2940 fps). My Chronograph indicated got 2910 on a very cold day. Factory stat is 2750 fps for 200 grain Core Lokt bullet. Maybe you can push a TSX bullet faster than others with some of the newest powders we have available. Anyway that seems to be what I am getting.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from steve182 wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Aside from being fast and flat, the .25-06 offers good sectional density and ballistic coefficient, i've heard and read.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

The .25-06 was first introduced by Mr. A.O.Niedner some time in the 1920s, as the .25 Nieder. There were other variations. At that time, it was the premier wildcat, being much faster than it's parent cartrige, the .30-'06 Springfield. Remington standardized the cartrige in 1969, and started to chamber rifles for it. The .25-06 actually competes with the .270 in some areas, with less recoil. Most of the new cartriges introduced in the .257/7mm class offer ballistics "like the .25-06." Greater speed can be coaxed out of the .25-06,by handloading. Remember that the factory rounds are somewhat loaded down. The .25-06 was one of the first, and is still one of the best.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from stanleyda wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Cgull touched on what my point was,I too was beginning to think I needed or wanted a 25/06. When I started looking at the manuals and ballistic charts, I was surprized to find the 25/06 is only faster and flatter shooting with the lighter rounds.With a 6mm rem,270win,7rem mag and 30/06 already and none of them I want to part with,I would gain little or nothing.Cgull check out the 110gr.TSX in 270win average fps of all powders listed max, 3477fps.That's 161 fps faster than average for all powders listed for the 25/06 with a 100gr.TSX.Barnes #4 manual.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I really like the 25-06 with the 100 gr. Nosler partition for deer. I load IMR 4350 for a chronograph velocity of 3280 fps and a chamber pressure of app.52,000 psi. This is a load that really performs at long range on targets. I can't tell you the results on living animals because I don't shoot them that far away but I can tell you that my son and I can hit balloons and clay targets pretty well at very long range with this round. The recoil from a prone position is very mild. The rifle is on a military mauser action that I built back around 1984-87.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Cgull wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I have no experience with the 25-06 but I have noticed that the loads I"m loading for my 270 wsm with 62.4 gr IMr 4350 should push the 110 v-max at 3300 fps and 57.6 gr IMR 4350 should push the 130 gr SST up to 3000 fps. I was going to get a 25-06 untill I found that I could almost reach the same velocities with my 270's.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from DakotaMan wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

For me, the noteworthy speed of the 25-06 comes with its ability to shoot smaller bullets at really high speeds... Bullets like the Hornady 75g hollow point and the Combined Technology 85g. Using book load recipes in a 24" barrel, they move at 3750 and 3650 fps respectively. I have shot a 25-06 for over 45 years and have experimeted a LOT. I can safely get 75g bullets going 4100 fps in my 24" Weatherby bolt rifle but generally shoot them around 3750 so they are not overbore. With a 26" or 27" barrel, they move about 150 fps faster. It makes hitting a running coyote/antelope or a 500 yard prairie dog much easier. The penetration and knock down capability of all the .25 bullets is noticeably better than the .270 or .308 bullets of similar weight because of their relative length (equating to higher ballistic coefficient). Therefore, you will find that a 100g 25-06 bullet does about the same damage to a deer and holds its long range speed about like a 165g 30-06 bullet does. To compare speed, you should be comparing a 100 grain 25-06 bullet at say 3250 or 3350 to a 165g 30-06 bullet which goes about 3050 fps. We now have great 110g and 130g bullets for the 30-06 so it can move with plenty of speed too. I still like the 25-06 with smaller bullets though because recoil is practically non-existant and I can shoot them all day on a prairie dog town with much less fear for ricochetes. If I were shooting elk and moose, I would choose the 30-06. If deer were the largest game I hunted and I wanted to shoot varmints too, I would choose the 25-06 hands down. Some rifles move faster but the 25-06 gives you top notch speed and amazing killing power for everything from prairie dogs to the largest of deer.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from blackdawgz wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I never saw it referred to as faster. Military rounds became very popular in this country because that was all anybody knew. It's a traditional round, and a lot of old-timers use them. There are better choices for efficiency. Got no room to talk. I have owned two .30-06's, and I had one wildcatted to near-magnum performance. They are very good and well-known. It's mostly just hard to break tradition. I am very partial to another military cartridge wildcatted in 1957. That's right, it's over 50 years old! By Roy Weatherby under military contract: The .30-378.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

To put it simply, the 25-06 is like crossing the trajectory of a 22-250 with the knock down performance of the 270 Winchester. In other words, you get part of both cartridges in one and what makes the 25-06 most appealing besides it's performance is the availability of 270, 280 and 30-06 cases to make 25-06 from.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

******WARNING******

Pushing the 25-06 in custom built rifles maybe hazardous to your health due to metallurgy and heat treatment.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I think I'll sit this one out. :-)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Dixie Lee wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Me two lets sit this one out.:-)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from stanleyda wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

DakotaMan,I think your opening statement is right on, those are blazeing fast with the 75gr..Clay said it's like crossing the 22/250 and 270win.That's right on it seems too,you keep the speed of the 22/250 but lose some of the bullet weight of the 270win to keep the speed. Thanks Everyone for the Answers

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from DakotaMan wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Thanks Stanley... I am always amazed that most factory loads available for the 25-06 come in 100g and 120g bullets. Although these are good deer loads, the real performance and fun come with the smaller bullets and you can hardly find them on the shelf. For WAM and CRM... good catch... that WAS a sporty load in a 30-06. I was giving it the max velocity for a 30-06 using a load with a moly coated bullet with a max book load of 62 grains of IMR4831 (which is listed at 3090 fps). A regular copper jacket 165g bullet maxes out at 2980 with 60g of RL19.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

I don't have a dod in this hunt! :-)

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jere Smith wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

dawg*

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

That's a pretty sporty .30-06 load at 3,050 fps.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Very, very sporty!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

Who said an Old Dog 30-06 can't do it?

110 GR. HDY SP

IMR IMR 4895

min. 56.0gr. 3303fps 48,200 PSI
Max. 59.8gr 3505fps 57,300 PSI

___________________________________

**Favorite load**

130 GR. SPR HP

IMR IMR 4064

Min. 51.0gr 3070fps 49,500 PSI
Max. 54.5gr 3243fps 58,200 PSI

___________________________________

150 GR. NOS BT

Hodgdon H4350

Min. 56.0gr 2792fps 37,100 CUP
Max. 62.0C 3068fps 48,400 CUP

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 5 weeks ago

165g 30-06 bullet which goes about 3050 fps?

Plausible with components, rifle and temperature etc

_____________________________

165 GR. SIE SPBT

Hodgdon H4350

Min. 53.0gr 2678fps 38,400 CUP
Max. 59.0gr 2938fps 49,400 CUP

__________________________

165 GR. SIE SPBT

IMR IMR 4350

Min. 56.0gr 2746fps 48,100 PSI
Max. 60.0C 2934fps 57,600 PSI

+1 Good Comment? | | Report

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