The wingmaster is definitely a nicer model of the 870. Unless your son is wanting to upgrade the sitebead, which would be easier with a vent rib and more options are available with that, I would get the wingmaster simply because it's a finer model. I know most of the old wingmasters will only shoot 2 3/4 shells. So you might double check that in case your son plans on shooting 3 in shells at some point. But for trap shooting 2 3/4 is all he'll use most likely. I think your son will be tickled to get either one honestly. It's a win win situation. Good luck to you and your son.

Also, check out shotgunworld.com. there's a lot of friendly helpful folk over there will answer any shotgun question you could possible have.

The wingmaster has a nicer finish and wood. Its also lighter, which IMO, is a benefit when shooting rounds of trap and skeet. Shooting light loads like those at the skeet range, do not require a heavy gun to absorb recoil. The guns are 99% mechanically the same, the wingmaster does contain some superior parts (steel not plastic). IMO, I would buy the wingmaster. If he gets good enough to where a vent rib may make a difference then buy a new barrel or, if me, I would put a reflex sight on it.

Two schools of thought!

1. The "Wingmaster" is more of a "classic" than the "Express", but with a "fixed" choke barrel, you'll either be stuck with what it comes with or seek out another, differently choked barrel.
2. The "Express", though not as "classic", will, in time, be a classic in itself. Just because it will chamber a 3.5 inch shell, does NOT mean you MUST shoot 3.5 inch ammo! With a simple screw in choke "tube", the gun will be just as at home on either a "trap" or "skeet" range!

I prefer "MY" third option! BUY THEM BOTH!! Let the boy select the one he prefers and shoot the other yourself!! OR vice versa!

Which ever way you go, good luck and God bless!

Bubba

I have an express and its ok. I was going to get a Wingmaster but my express is my gun for the deep timber for chasing turkey and deer and it can take quite the beating. My target shooting gun and upland gun is a browning gold with a wood finish and blued barrel. But thats beside the point. I find when i shoot, I dont notice the bead, or the ribbed barrel. Im always focused on the target and the gun just goes wherever my eyes go, so i dont think it would handicap him. However, the choke story is a different issue, I have three or four different chokes for my browning, sometimes with trap and skeet i shoot IC, Modified, and i like to challenge myself with a full choke every now and then. I'd prefer the Wingmaster in your case however since its just for trap.But like ableskeever said, its all about feel and what he feels comfortable with. thats the number one thing. and you can always by aftermarket barrels. Just my opinion. Good Luck and let us know what you get!

The 870 Express will be a lot easier on the boy's shoulder. That will inherently help him focus on the target and help him become a better shot.

Some people think the raised rib help newbies get their eye on the target faster, too.

I have been shooting a 3" mag 870 since 1968. Same gun. You can see it in my profile photos. I'm sorry, but these aren't a "real nice" gun in any book. They are very servicable and tough. But they are cheaply built. Anyone who has ever popped one appart really can't argue that point. Having said that, I have never been dissatisfied with my 870 ... given what I use it for (shooting waterfowl not trap).

I can see two very big drawbacks to purchasing either of these models for trap shooting. Number one: they are pump actions. Just about anyone will admit they shoot better on the range with an auto or something with two barrels. Having to eject/inject the rounds manually interupts the flow, especially for someone who isn't used to it. If you ask me, your kid switching to a pump action might just be enough to turn him off. It could affect things that much. Number two: Definitely get something with a rib on it. I HATE ventilated ribs for field hunting. They catch debris and are an unholy pain to get clean and keep rust free. As far as I'm concerned all those camo-dyed whopping 3.5" canons with vent rib you see for sale these days are about the stupidest thing going! If you have to shoot a waterfowl gun enough to get the barrel hot and still haven't filled your daily bag, then you're probably just wasting ammo shooting at stuff in outerspace. On the other hand, a person almost has no business shooting competition clays WITHOUT a vent rib because you can expect to burn up at least a box of shells in rapid succession every time it's your turn to shoot. The barrel does not have time to cool down.

I'd suggest you look for an automatic with a rib and choke tubes. A good over and under is probably out of your price range. A double barrel might be okay except that you'd still be dealing with hot barrel visual distortion issues. If you do decide to go with an auto, forget about looks. I have a Browning Light 12 which would be the bees knees for trap shooting - if I was into that sort of thing (and I'm not). Again, this gun would probably be out of your price range. However, there are a ton of old Remington Model 11 and same gun in Savage (these are essentially the same gun as my Browning auto) wearing old style polychokes (predecessor to choke tubes). The plychoke is ugly but it will do the job just fine on the range. Switching to the field and steel shot with one of these would be a different matter though. You might be lucky enough to find one of these guns in okay shape that you could afford. A really fine one would probably be unaffordable (Model 11 ceased production in 1949). I understand that the Remington 1100 auto is also a pretty good gun. Watch out for some of the new auto models out there. I'm hearing a lot of complaints about a few of them. I believe the Berreta auto is also a good gun (but likely a bit pricey).

There are cheap over and unders on the market too. Definitely watch out for these! Several years ago my brother bought one of the Walmart specials made in Spain or Russia (forget the brand name but it has come up for discussion on this forum before - and not in a good way!). That gun is crap. If you decide to go with O/U you're probably going to have to dig into the wallet a bit. Even for a used one.

That's my two-cents worth. Good luck.

I'd look at a used Rem. 1100 or 1187.

dls, yes you should look beyond the bead at the target, but if that target is a teeny piece of flashy clay and the air above the warm barrel is wavy, he's going to have trouble picking it out. The point of the vent rib is not to provide a full length sight ramp (which admittedly it does) but rather to maintain a sight plane that is free of visual distortion. I am not a fan of double beads for the very reason you indicated above - they tend to make one focus on lining up sights rather than what needs to be hit. Perhaps the MOST important thing to stress when someone is starting out with a shotgun is to "keep down" on the gun. Get the cheek on the stock and the eye will automatically line up the back of the receiver and the bead at the end of the barrel with the target. Biggest problem with shotgun shooting (especially in the field) is folks who don't get their head down and wind up shooting "up the barrel" and over the target.

Both of you need to be careful about being impulsive at this point. Any kid who goes shopping for his first car is going to fall in love with just about anything he looks at. Same thing with guns. For shooting competitive trap (and I presume your son wants to be competitive since he has joined a club), your son should NOT have a pump. I have been shooting my old 870 for a VERY long time, perhaps longer and more consistently than 99% of the gunslingers out there. It does the job for me and it does it well. However, that job is not trap shooting and I would not use it to shoot trap. Not even if it had a vent rib. I would want something that is smoother to shoot - auto or O/U. Your boy is just starting out. But he is NOT starting out in the field. Had that been the case I would have said go with the pump - it helps keep novices from burning up a lot of ammo and concentrating more on making the shot. Give your boy as much of an edge as you can, not because you want him to "win" but because you don't want him to become discouraged. I very strongly suggest that you keep looking. Discuss this with your son. I'm sure he is already bent on one or the other of these guns. Help him see the big picture. Heck, I'd advise a single shot over a pump for shooting trap (and I have seen many very beautiful and extremely expensive trap model single shot shotguns). I say get him an auto with screw chokes (particularly improved cylinder). He can shoot trap or take it to the field.

If your son is concerned about peer pressure to pick up something that is "pretty," perhaps you should lecture him about the merits of showing up with a tired old gun and outshooting the guys with the fancy new ones (like I did this morning - I really put that young fella to shame who was shooting a new camo 3.5" Benneli in the field in front of me. He must have shot nearly two boxes of shells before he finally filled his limit of five honkers. Way too much gun for that kind of shooting. I took three birds in nine shots and two of those geese probably weren't going anywhere after absorbing the first shot but I had to hit them again to make sure). If your son outshoots the other guys with a not-so-fancy gun, that will shut off the peer pressure right now! Also there is something to be said for the maturity of those who pride themselves in not following the crowd and still doing well. Lots of opportunity to teach many lessons at this juncture.

If it HAS to be one or the other of the 2 choices you listed buy the wingmaster.

Neither are trap guns, so if it's primarily trap shooting, skip the pumps or semi auto's, these are hunting guns. Also, there are some shoot clubs that do not allow pumps or semi's, as you cannot readily tell from a distance if they are unloaded. For trap and skeet, look to a quality over/under.