Please Sign In

Please enter a valid username and password
  • Log in with Facebook
» Not a member? Take a moment to register
» Forgot Username or Password

Why Register?
Signing up could earn you gear (click here to learn how)! It also keeps offensive content off our site.

AnswersASK YOUR QUESTION

Answers

Q:
This is the scenario, you’re a Law Enforcement Officer on patrol and dispatch just received a 911 call for a firearm just lying in a conference room. Upon arrival, you discover it was probably dropped by someone carrying concealed and there is no criminal or wrong doing associated with this or even suggested by the occupants of the building. Before picking the handgun up, you notice the safety is off and the hammer is back. Question, since the owner is unknown, no criminal act involved and you’re asked to remove the firearm from the building, what do you do to remove the potentially loaded handgun with the safety off and hammer back?

Question by Clay Cooper. Uploaded on January 29, 2011

Answers (53)

Top Rated
All Answers
from Christopher Spangler wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Remove the mag, cycle it, after making sure the chamber is clear, then decock it. I carry but never with the hammer cocked. My Dad is an old cowboy guess I am too, I carry a revolver on a empty chamber. As a CCW permit holder I have a obligation to everyone around me to practice safe gun handling. I guess I never see the reason to carry ready, unless you watch too many action movies.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kenton wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Is this a "loaded" questions...LOL

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

O'YES IT IS Kenton!

A VERY LOADED QUESTION!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sourdough Dave wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Any firearm you encounter is treated as a loaded weapon, inspected to determine its condition and made safe.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jere Smith wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Unload it ,dec@ck it and try to find the owner.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sourdough Dave wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

So why again were the police called? If no crime was committed why bother the police? Where I live most any occupant of that building would have been more than capable of making the firearm safe and securing it until it could be claimed by its rightful owner, and would have done so. We are an open carry state in the process of enacting a law that allows every resident to carry concealed. Kids learn to shoot right after learning to ride which happens just about the time they start school. Several of our junior rifle club members have competed well at the national and olympic level. Guns are just a part of everyday life and not a police issue.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

In my town; Make the firearm safe remove mag and cycle the slide leaving slide back. Do this with a gloved hand to preserve any finger print evidents. Down the road determine if it was used in a crime or legal. EITHER way some one has some explaining to do. P.S. Sad state of affairs but people do lye!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from HammerGun wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Just trying to make people think, Mr. Cooper? Here's my two cents- Most cops are not "gun people" even though they carry a gun. They are sometimes proficient with whatever weapon they are issued, and that's it. Often they don't even enjoy firing their sidearm for qualifications, let alone enjoy the shooting sports as many of us do. By and large they are unfamiliar with any weapon apart from their own, and are unsafe when handling them. I carry my 1911 cocked and locked, but the thought of the average LE officer picking one up even in condition one is scary. As for the 'ol "five beans in the wheel" - that's just a cowboy movie invention that folks seem to take as gospel. Obviously a transfer bar revolver is fine to keep fully loaded. As for a hammer pin gun, Sam Colt designed his for the firing pin to rest in the space between two cartridges. If your daily carry piece is a weak-springed relic, time to freshen up the insides.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I agree with Carl about the gloved hand, and would place the weapon in an evidence bag after clearing it.
Some interrogation would also be in order to determine the source and ownership of the weapon.
Maybe a photograph of the weapon as it was found in the conference room would be helpful, esp. if it was on the floor or some other unusual location.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Coop-
You neglected to mention the make and type of the firearm. This would affect my course of action.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

crm3006, this would be for any firearm. By the way, nobody has the right answer yet.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

HammerGun your right about your two cents- Most cops are not "gun people" even though they carry a gun.

And a +1 for that!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from deblack wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

if you were going to do all of that call the authorities specially if it is not known who it belongs to. Once they have possesion of the gun they could run some # off of it. personally i would try to stay out of it!LOL just my opinion

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Christopher Spangler wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I wanna try again, I would pick it up?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

OK-
Take digital photos of the weapon in situ, wear crime scene gloves, clear the room, pick up the weapon with muzzle in a safe direction, clear the weapon, bag it in an evidence bag, and hold for the owner to identify and claim. I would also be curious about how he or she could leave a room and not be aware they were missing their weapon. Kinda like forgetting your pants.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Edward J. Palumbo wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I would withdraw a pair of latex or nitrile gloves from my belt pouch and put them on, then remove the magazine, check and safely clear the chamber, and bag it, taking the weapon into custody on the basis of the 9-1-1 call. I'd make an effort to determine the originator of the 9-1-1 call and get additional input, and try determine the owner of the firearm, his/her intent and psycho-emotional state, since a handgun in a conference room is a questionable accessory for productive dialogue.
Once directed to the owner/possessor of the arm, if s/he demonstrated agitation and was unwilling to discuss it, I would detain that person for questioning (calling a back-up, if necessary) for refusal to cooperate, and I'd assume there may be more than one weapon in possession or a yet undiscovered crime may already have been committed, and sort it out.
Clay, you do pose some interesting situations!

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from HammerGun wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I shall play your charade, Sir! First, I should ask if your clue of actually having a safety identifies this as a semi-auto pistol, precluding a revolver,(barring the unlikely event of encountering a Webley-Fosbery)...That makes it an SAA. You say the type of firearm has nothing to do with it... Next, shall we consider that the building in question is actually a gun club or firing range, or possibly even some type of training facility? A museum? Simply ask whom it may belong to? Tip your hand, Sir! Give another clue!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jere Smith wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

What Ed J said. Then I would call the Sheriff he's a friend.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from chaslee wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

fire it into the floor and call it a day?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

In Clays defence as to type of weapon he did say Hammer Cocked, Safety off. Some autos don't have a Manual safety but All revolvers don't

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

i've left my keys laying around but never a gun.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

+1 for HammerGun I am impressed. They only thing I can say is Willey Suttons old Quote" when you hear hoof beats behind you think horses not Zebras". But that was a good catch and to be truthful if I found a 9000 dollar I might unload it and wipe it down.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from HammerGun wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Mr. Huber,
Well played, Sir. Not attacking Mr. Cooper, but playing along. Nothing but the utmost respect. I should have stated SA capable or SA/DA auto. Is that a recent value for an automatic revolver?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

No sir, Latest I saw was 8500 a few years ago but with inflation vs market decline and who wants it also near perfect condition, who knows!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from RylieGipson wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Yes.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I think Ed Palumbo may have touched on the answer. After securing the weapon, I should call the dispatcher for further instructions.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

HammerGun; I see we grew up in the same place. Understand the question and always be respectful. By the By Mr. Huber is in Saint Johns, my name is Carl and I'm going to make an educated guess and Thank you for your service.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Oh I just can't wait to hear the answer that Clay has waiting for us. It really is as simple as unloading the thing and taking it back to the station, but you know something else is coming out of left field that no one could possibly discern from info given, but it's obvious to Clay so in his mind it should be obvious to us...

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Call CSI.... Clay's Super Imagination!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Hammergun; One more thing before I cash in it just came to me. Sam Colts revolvers that bit about resting the hammer between chambers wasn't that just cap and ball revolvers, not cartridge guns I might be wrong.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from whitetailfreek wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I am kind of surprised somebody in the military didn't write down the 4 Weapons Safety Rules. As far as clearing it, these are the only 4 Rules you should go buy.

1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
2. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

Some guys touched on it, but I dont believe anyone gave all 4 Weapon Safety Rules.

As far as the LE aspect, you would want to use gloves, and bag the weapon as evidence. Just because it might have been a regular joe citizen lawfully carrying, doesn't mean that it actually was. Try to get in touch with the person who dialed 911. If it was a concealed carry citizen who dropped his pistol, lecture him on the great new RETENTION holsters. Possibly smack him up the backside of his head for his stupidity. *JOKING*

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I like chaslee who wrote

fire it into the floor and call it a day?

But I do believe that wouldn't go over very well Chas LOL!!
__________________________________________________

whitetailfreek got very close with the exception of

4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
__________________________________________________

For those of you who think this is a you got to be joking question and didn't take it seriously, this is exactly the mentality in Law Enforcement and it shows both sides are equally ignorant when it comes to matters such as this.

___________________________________________________

The answer is easy,

You temporarily clear the room and once cleared you start to remove the firearm. First of all you don't know if it's mechanically safe such as altered trigger, defective sear etc or the sear is preventing the hammer from dropping the hammer by just a breath away. Because you’re in an occupied building, pick up the firearm pointed down and away from yourself and by keeping your fingers out of the trigger guard including any other object that would come in contact away. Now carry it quietly outside always pointing away from people and you will be just fine. Once you’re outside and away from people you now can move into an area if the firearm discharges, no arm will be the results of.

_________________________________________________

Back in 95, a Deputy needed to go into the jail to talk to someone so he handed his 1911 A1 to a Deputy next to me. Moments later, there was a “BANG” and the sound of a 230 grain .45 ACP Black Talon ricocheting into the business area to the west. What happened was, the Deputy felt nervous and wanted to clear the other Deputies weapon. If only he would have left it alone and if he felt uneasy with it, could have placed it on the floorboard of the Ford Bronco and awaited the return of the other Deputy instead of blowing a hole in the forward bottom driver’s door. Fortunately, nobody was on that side of the vehicle and early in the morning prior to the local workers coming to work.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

WAM, I figured anyone who would of got it right, it would have been you, you let me down Crusty, you let me down.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Clay,
I think it is a bit much to walk the weapon out of the building in Condition Zero before clearing it. That might increase the safety hazard if a discharge is just a breath away.
Besides, the streets outside the building could be even more crowded than within the building.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

99, one would think that and years ago, I would agree with. But of all the training from the Pro's and experience have taught me different. Think about this, take the Remington 700 that has a tarnished safety record for accidental discharge. The rifle did fire until the safety was pushed to fire. Older models require you to have the safety in fire position to unlock the bolt. Now back to subject at hand. As long there isn't in function within the firearm such as pulling the slide back, lowering the hammer to placing it on safety, there will not be a discharge. All accidents indoors include clearing a firearm and none while holstered with the exception of impact which goes back to why you take it outside.

99, thanks for bringing that up and as for might increase the safety hazard if a discharge is just a breath away? Don't breath on it. But seriously, you do bring up a fear someone may and should have and I'm impressed you brought it up. Keep it up Sir!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Spelling correction,

Remington 700 that has a tarnished safety record for accidental discharge. The rifle *"DIDN'T"* fire until the safety was pushed to fire. Older models require you to have the safety in fire position to unlock the bolt.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Mr. Cooper the last time I saw that protocol being followed the Nassau County Police [complete with bomb squad] where raiding a Hells Angel club house in Hempstead. After a prospect shot a detective's son during a robber.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Sorry, Clay. But just finding a firearm lying around would cause me to suspect criminal activity and I would consider having the supervisor advise whether an evidence technician should dust it, etc. before moving it anywhere.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Clay,
In this case, the weapon could be cleared without touching the safety.
Step 1. Drop the magazine.
Step 2. Retract the slide.
Step 3. Engage the slide stop.
Step 4. Inspect the chamber.
(Skip step 3 if there is no slide stop)
No bang.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

WAM valid point, but the question is, what do you do to make it safe. Sure, criminal activity is on everybody's mind including my own. Just on the news the other day, someone at a Stab & Grab left a handgun in the Women's restroom for no reason at all. They do have a picture of her entering the store, but still don't have a clue who she is or motive for it.

Carl, What phrase comes to mind!!

99, back to you Sir. If it was a home or place of very few people around knowing there locations, perhaps would have been a very good option. However, if you believe Murphy's Law and I truly believe he is a optimist, rare it has happened, I do know of and witnessed accidental discharges following those very steps once in the presence of Law Enforcement Officer and on the range including accident reports. Conference rooms in businesses and Hotels and other commercial settings are known for thin walls making very poor backstops! I know of a gun shop were a "former" employee shot a telephone book propped up in a chair and exited through a brick wall at the rear of the building into the front plate glass window of a Barber Shop on the other side of the street, fortunately it was closed at the time.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Clay,
On the theory that anything can happen, I have to agree. It all depends on the situation and the terrain.
But I still think it would be safer to clear the weapon on the spot than carrying it around in Condition Zero, esp. if the conference room is on the upper floors of a tall office building with crowded elevators:-)

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

...Yep

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

99, this how Law Enforcement get there selves into so much in a jam. They are so hung up on procedures they don't understand the mechanics of :)

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jeff4066 wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I have done the obvious thing of putting my thumb in front of the hammer on an unknown pistol.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Good morning Clay how are you doing. In the NYC technique of Stab and Grab; that's a method of how you purse snatch on a crowded NY street. You and a couple of friends come up to a victim. Surround and threaten. Relieve them of their valuables then use the weapon of choice a box cutter [not a knife] to cut the mark [should give him or her something more immediate to focus on]. Then everybody takes off in a different direction to meet later. This resulted in a death in the 80s because the perpetrator didn't know were to cut and hit an artery. As far as the gun in the rest room that's a favored place to hide while the store is emptied and locked so you only have to deal with store clerks and not an off duty cop. So I think someone was on their way to commit a crime and chickened out for some reason. Women might forget a lot of stuff but not their hand bag. If any of you gentlemen want a look into a very well respected criminal mind; I recommend two books by Willie Sutton " I Willie and Were the Money Isn't" an easy and informative read on tactics and execution. I met him as a kid at my fathers real estate lawyer {George Herz} his pro bono lawyer. I remember him as a really nice man; for a man that I later found out that spent some time on the FBI's most wanted list, robbed millions of dollars from banks and escaped from three maximum security prisons. He is one of the reason that banks operate the way they do today and you can get more money robbing a Chinese tack out.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

P.S Chinese take out. That's what happens when your fingers get ahead of your brain not so bad in typing definitely no good with guns!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Carl-
I don't follow the reasoning behind the woman hiding the gun in the rest room. Why not keep it in her purse?
Al Pacino knew he was going to be patted down (in "The Godfather"), so he had to have a weapon hidden elsewhere than on his person. How is that tactic applicable to the woman shopper here?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

My point exactly most women off duty or otherwise carry in a gun friendly purse. If I had to despair the human species I would say she was a felon who was being followed and needed a place to dump a gun. As far as The Godfather went that was Hollywood pandering to the American public. I have never heard of the gun in the toilet trick. Although if you remember how they killed Luca Bratssi that did happen to Joey Gallo's brother who was saved by the cop. He bore that scare from the wire till him and his brother met their end in a gun battle at Umberto's Clam House. This is how they do if your a high value target and they can't get close to you, in force. On the other hand if it's sanctioned they have your bodyguards kill you. This was done in Joe and Marys Pizza Parlor {shared many a slice with my wife then girl friend} to Vincent[Lilo] Giganti. As far as the sleeps with the fishes crap that only became popular after the movie,life imitating art. Lilo was shot in the eye because he coveted someone else's business. Sonny Black had his hands cut off because he introduced Donnie Brasco. I won't even tell you about adultery with some important guys wife. I really got a kick on Marlin Brando's take on selling drugs. Nothing flips a bad guy like mandatory life.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

As a post script if there is mutilation involved; and the body is left in the open. It harkens back to when the population in the old country was illiterate and they dealt with more show and tell. In more modern times they practice what the police called the Gemini Method made famous by Roy De Mayo were you just disappeared.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Since Mr. Cooper asked for a phrase but none came to mind with the above Blog. I will leave you a Chestnut my dad told me That served me and was passed to my children. It works with life as well as guns. If you must drink. Drink something that smells; so they know your drunk and not stupid!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Whoever gave me the plus 1 Thank you. Prophets are never appreciated or believed in their own lifetime

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Carl,
In Greek mythology, Apollo's curse on Cassandra was that she could foresee the future, but no one would believe her predictions. I think we may be getting a bit off topic.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

99; True in the heavens but on earth the Delphic oracle was sought out and old guys ramble sometimes.

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post an Answer

from Sourdough Dave wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Any firearm you encounter is treated as a loaded weapon, inspected to determine its condition and made safe.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sourdough Dave wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

So why again were the police called? If no crime was committed why bother the police? Where I live most any occupant of that building would have been more than capable of making the firearm safe and securing it until it could be claimed by its rightful owner, and would have done so. We are an open carry state in the process of enacting a law that allows every resident to carry concealed. Kids learn to shoot right after learning to ride which happens just about the time they start school. Several of our junior rifle club members have competed well at the national and olympic level. Guns are just a part of everyday life and not a police issue.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from HammerGun wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Just trying to make people think, Mr. Cooper? Here's my two cents- Most cops are not "gun people" even though they carry a gun. They are sometimes proficient with whatever weapon they are issued, and that's it. Often they don't even enjoy firing their sidearm for qualifications, let alone enjoy the shooting sports as many of us do. By and large they are unfamiliar with any weapon apart from their own, and are unsafe when handling them. I carry my 1911 cocked and locked, but the thought of the average LE officer picking one up even in condition one is scary. As for the 'ol "five beans in the wheel" - that's just a cowboy movie invention that folks seem to take as gospel. Obviously a transfer bar revolver is fine to keep fully loaded. As for a hammer pin gun, Sam Colt designed his for the firing pin to rest in the space between two cartridges. If your daily carry piece is a weak-springed relic, time to freshen up the insides.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Coop-
You neglected to mention the make and type of the firearm. This would affect my course of action.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Edward J. Palumbo wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I would withdraw a pair of latex or nitrile gloves from my belt pouch and put them on, then remove the magazine, check and safely clear the chamber, and bag it, taking the weapon into custody on the basis of the 9-1-1 call. I'd make an effort to determine the originator of the 9-1-1 call and get additional input, and try determine the owner of the firearm, his/her intent and psycho-emotional state, since a handgun in a conference room is a questionable accessory for productive dialogue.
Once directed to the owner/possessor of the arm, if s/he demonstrated agitation and was unwilling to discuss it, I would detain that person for questioning (calling a back-up, if necessary) for refusal to cooperate, and I'd assume there may be more than one weapon in possession or a yet undiscovered crime may already have been committed, and sort it out.
Clay, you do pose some interesting situations!

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

In my town; Make the firearm safe remove mag and cycle the slide leaving slide back. Do this with a gloved hand to preserve any finger print evidents. Down the road determine if it was used in a crime or legal. EITHER way some one has some explaining to do. P.S. Sad state of affairs but people do lye!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

OK-
Take digital photos of the weapon in situ, wear crime scene gloves, clear the room, pick up the weapon with muzzle in a safe direction, clear the weapon, bag it in an evidence bag, and hold for the owner to identify and claim. I would also be curious about how he or she could leave a room and not be aware they were missing their weapon. Kinda like forgetting your pants.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from RylieGipson wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Yes.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Call CSI.... Clay's Super Imagination!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Christopher Spangler wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Remove the mag, cycle it, after making sure the chamber is clear, then decock it. I carry but never with the hammer cocked. My Dad is an old cowboy guess I am too, I carry a revolver on a empty chamber. As a CCW permit holder I have a obligation to everyone around me to practice safe gun handling. I guess I never see the reason to carry ready, unless you watch too many action movies.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Kenton wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Is this a "loaded" questions...LOL

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jere Smith wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Unload it ,dec@ck it and try to find the owner.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I agree with Carl about the gloved hand, and would place the weapon in an evidence bag after clearing it.
Some interrogation would also be in order to determine the source and ownership of the weapon.
Maybe a photograph of the weapon as it was found in the conference room would be helpful, esp. if it was on the floor or some other unusual location.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

HammerGun your right about your two cents- Most cops are not "gun people" even though they carry a gun.

And a +1 for that!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Christopher Spangler wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I wanna try again, I would pick it up?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from HammerGun wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I shall play your charade, Sir! First, I should ask if your clue of actually having a safety identifies this as a semi-auto pistol, precluding a revolver,(barring the unlikely event of encountering a Webley-Fosbery)...That makes it an SAA. You say the type of firearm has nothing to do with it... Next, shall we consider that the building in question is actually a gun club or firing range, or possibly even some type of training facility? A museum? Simply ask whom it may belong to? Tip your hand, Sir! Give another clue!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jamesti wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

i've left my keys laying around but never a gun.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

+1 for HammerGun I am impressed. They only thing I can say is Willey Suttons old Quote" when you hear hoof beats behind you think horses not Zebras". But that was a good catch and to be truthful if I found a 9000 dollar I might unload it and wipe it down.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

HammerGun; I see we grew up in the same place. Understand the question and always be respectful. By the By Mr. Huber is in Saint Johns, my name is Carl and I'm going to make an educated guess and Thank you for your service.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Since Mr. Cooper asked for a phrase but none came to mind with the above Blog. I will leave you a Chestnut my dad told me That served me and was passed to my children. It works with life as well as guns. If you must drink. Drink something that smells; so they know your drunk and not stupid!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

O'YES IT IS Kenton!

A VERY LOADED QUESTION!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

crm3006, this would be for any firearm. By the way, nobody has the right answer yet.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from deblack wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

if you were going to do all of that call the authorities specially if it is not known who it belongs to. Once they have possesion of the gun they could run some # off of it. personally i would try to stay out of it!LOL just my opinion

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jere Smith wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

What Ed J said. Then I would call the Sheriff he's a friend.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from chaslee wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

fire it into the floor and call it a day?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

In Clays defence as to type of weapon he did say Hammer Cocked, Safety off. Some autos don't have a Manual safety but All revolvers don't

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from HammerGun wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Mr. Huber,
Well played, Sir. Not attacking Mr. Cooper, but playing along. Nothing but the utmost respect. I should have stated SA capable or SA/DA auto. Is that a recent value for an automatic revolver?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

No sir, Latest I saw was 8500 a few years ago but with inflation vs market decline and who wants it also near perfect condition, who knows!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I think Ed Palumbo may have touched on the answer. After securing the weapon, I should call the dispatcher for further instructions.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Oh I just can't wait to hear the answer that Clay has waiting for us. It really is as simple as unloading the thing and taking it back to the station, but you know something else is coming out of left field that no one could possibly discern from info given, but it's obvious to Clay so in his mind it should be obvious to us...

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Hammergun; One more thing before I cash in it just came to me. Sam Colts revolvers that bit about resting the hammer between chambers wasn't that just cap and ball revolvers, not cartridge guns I might be wrong.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from whitetailfreek wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I am kind of surprised somebody in the military didn't write down the 4 Weapons Safety Rules. As far as clearing it, these are the only 4 Rules you should go buy.

1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
2. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

Some guys touched on it, but I dont believe anyone gave all 4 Weapon Safety Rules.

As far as the LE aspect, you would want to use gloves, and bag the weapon as evidence. Just because it might have been a regular joe citizen lawfully carrying, doesn't mean that it actually was. Try to get in touch with the person who dialed 911. If it was a concealed carry citizen who dropped his pistol, lecture him on the great new RETENTION holsters. Possibly smack him up the backside of his head for his stupidity. *JOKING*

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I like chaslee who wrote

fire it into the floor and call it a day?

But I do believe that wouldn't go over very well Chas LOL!!
__________________________________________________

whitetailfreek got very close with the exception of

4. Keep the weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
__________________________________________________

For those of you who think this is a you got to be joking question and didn't take it seriously, this is exactly the mentality in Law Enforcement and it shows both sides are equally ignorant when it comes to matters such as this.

___________________________________________________

The answer is easy,

You temporarily clear the room and once cleared you start to remove the firearm. First of all you don't know if it's mechanically safe such as altered trigger, defective sear etc or the sear is preventing the hammer from dropping the hammer by just a breath away. Because you’re in an occupied building, pick up the firearm pointed down and away from yourself and by keeping your fingers out of the trigger guard including any other object that would come in contact away. Now carry it quietly outside always pointing away from people and you will be just fine. Once you’re outside and away from people you now can move into an area if the firearm discharges, no arm will be the results of.

_________________________________________________

Back in 95, a Deputy needed to go into the jail to talk to someone so he handed his 1911 A1 to a Deputy next to me. Moments later, there was a “BANG” and the sound of a 230 grain .45 ACP Black Talon ricocheting into the business area to the west. What happened was, the Deputy felt nervous and wanted to clear the other Deputies weapon. If only he would have left it alone and if he felt uneasy with it, could have placed it on the floorboard of the Ford Bronco and awaited the return of the other Deputy instead of blowing a hole in the forward bottom driver’s door. Fortunately, nobody was on that side of the vehicle and early in the morning prior to the local workers coming to work.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

WAM, I figured anyone who would of got it right, it would have been you, you let me down Crusty, you let me down.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Clay,
I think it is a bit much to walk the weapon out of the building in Condition Zero before clearing it. That might increase the safety hazard if a discharge is just a breath away.
Besides, the streets outside the building could be even more crowded than within the building.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

99, one would think that and years ago, I would agree with. But of all the training from the Pro's and experience have taught me different. Think about this, take the Remington 700 that has a tarnished safety record for accidental discharge. The rifle did fire until the safety was pushed to fire. Older models require you to have the safety in fire position to unlock the bolt. Now back to subject at hand. As long there isn't in function within the firearm such as pulling the slide back, lowering the hammer to placing it on safety, there will not be a discharge. All accidents indoors include clearing a firearm and none while holstered with the exception of impact which goes back to why you take it outside.

99, thanks for bringing that up and as for might increase the safety hazard if a discharge is just a breath away? Don't breath on it. But seriously, you do bring up a fear someone may and should have and I'm impressed you brought it up. Keep it up Sir!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Spelling correction,

Remington 700 that has a tarnished safety record for accidental discharge. The rifle *"DIDN'T"* fire until the safety was pushed to fire. Older models require you to have the safety in fire position to unlock the bolt.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Mr. Cooper the last time I saw that protocol being followed the Nassau County Police [complete with bomb squad] where raiding a Hells Angel club house in Hempstead. After a prospect shot a detective's son during a robber.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Sorry, Clay. But just finding a firearm lying around would cause me to suspect criminal activity and I would consider having the supervisor advise whether an evidence technician should dust it, etc. before moving it anywhere.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Clay,
In this case, the weapon could be cleared without touching the safety.
Step 1. Drop the magazine.
Step 2. Retract the slide.
Step 3. Engage the slide stop.
Step 4. Inspect the chamber.
(Skip step 3 if there is no slide stop)
No bang.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

WAM valid point, but the question is, what do you do to make it safe. Sure, criminal activity is on everybody's mind including my own. Just on the news the other day, someone at a Stab & Grab left a handgun in the Women's restroom for no reason at all. They do have a picture of her entering the store, but still don't have a clue who she is or motive for it.

Carl, What phrase comes to mind!!

99, back to you Sir. If it was a home or place of very few people around knowing there locations, perhaps would have been a very good option. However, if you believe Murphy's Law and I truly believe he is a optimist, rare it has happened, I do know of and witnessed accidental discharges following those very steps once in the presence of Law Enforcement Officer and on the range including accident reports. Conference rooms in businesses and Hotels and other commercial settings are known for thin walls making very poor backstops! I know of a gun shop were a "former" employee shot a telephone book propped up in a chair and exited through a brick wall at the rear of the building into the front plate glass window of a Barber Shop on the other side of the street, fortunately it was closed at the time.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Clay,
On the theory that anything can happen, I have to agree. It all depends on the situation and the terrain.
But I still think it would be safer to clear the weapon on the spot than carrying it around in Condition Zero, esp. if the conference room is on the upper floors of a tall office building with crowded elevators:-)

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

...Yep

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

99, this how Law Enforcement get there selves into so much in a jam. They are so hung up on procedures they don't understand the mechanics of :)

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jeff4066 wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

I have done the obvious thing of putting my thumb in front of the hammer on an unknown pistol.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Good morning Clay how are you doing. In the NYC technique of Stab and Grab; that's a method of how you purse snatch on a crowded NY street. You and a couple of friends come up to a victim. Surround and threaten. Relieve them of their valuables then use the weapon of choice a box cutter [not a knife] to cut the mark [should give him or her something more immediate to focus on]. Then everybody takes off in a different direction to meet later. This resulted in a death in the 80s because the perpetrator didn't know were to cut and hit an artery. As far as the gun in the rest room that's a favored place to hide while the store is emptied and locked so you only have to deal with store clerks and not an off duty cop. So I think someone was on their way to commit a crime and chickened out for some reason. Women might forget a lot of stuff but not their hand bag. If any of you gentlemen want a look into a very well respected criminal mind; I recommend two books by Willie Sutton " I Willie and Were the Money Isn't" an easy and informative read on tactics and execution. I met him as a kid at my fathers real estate lawyer {George Herz} his pro bono lawyer. I remember him as a really nice man; for a man that I later found out that spent some time on the FBI's most wanted list, robbed millions of dollars from banks and escaped from three maximum security prisons. He is one of the reason that banks operate the way they do today and you can get more money robbing a Chinese tack out.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

P.S Chinese take out. That's what happens when your fingers get ahead of your brain not so bad in typing definitely no good with guns!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Carl-
I don't follow the reasoning behind the woman hiding the gun in the rest room. Why not keep it in her purse?
Al Pacino knew he was going to be patted down (in "The Godfather"), so he had to have a weapon hidden elsewhere than on his person. How is that tactic applicable to the woman shopper here?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

My point exactly most women off duty or otherwise carry in a gun friendly purse. If I had to despair the human species I would say she was a felon who was being followed and needed a place to dump a gun. As far as The Godfather went that was Hollywood pandering to the American public. I have never heard of the gun in the toilet trick. Although if you remember how they killed Luca Bratssi that did happen to Joey Gallo's brother who was saved by the cop. He bore that scare from the wire till him and his brother met their end in a gun battle at Umberto's Clam House. This is how they do if your a high value target and they can't get close to you, in force. On the other hand if it's sanctioned they have your bodyguards kill you. This was done in Joe and Marys Pizza Parlor {shared many a slice with my wife then girl friend} to Vincent[Lilo] Giganti. As far as the sleeps with the fishes crap that only became popular after the movie,life imitating art. Lilo was shot in the eye because he coveted someone else's business. Sonny Black had his hands cut off because he introduced Donnie Brasco. I won't even tell you about adultery with some important guys wife. I really got a kick on Marlin Brando's take on selling drugs. Nothing flips a bad guy like mandatory life.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

As a post script if there is mutilation involved; and the body is left in the open. It harkens back to when the population in the old country was illiterate and they dealt with more show and tell. In more modern times they practice what the police called the Gemini Method made famous by Roy De Mayo were you just disappeared.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Whoever gave me the plus 1 Thank you. Prophets are never appreciated or believed in their own lifetime

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

Carl,
In Greek mythology, Apollo's curse on Cassandra was that she could foresee the future, but no one would believe her predictions. I think we may be getting a bit off topic.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 16 weeks ago

99; True in the heavens but on earth the Delphic oracle was sought out and old guys ramble sometimes.

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post an Answer