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Q:
"Sport hunting is based on the premise that the animals have a chance to evade you before you can kill them. They do this by sensing you with hearing, smell, and eyesight. But at 500 yards, sound and scent dissipate, and only prong-horn antelope see well enough to detect a hunter holding still. No chance, no sport." - DEP
Question by shane. Uploaded on October 11, 2009
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Answers (21)
Not sure where you were/are going with this one bud.
I'm with you there Big O. I was reading along and wondering where the payoff was? Maybe PETA hacked his computer before he could type the last of his thought...
Got to go into the "boards" area. Some on was looking for advice on a reliable 600+ yd rifle to shoot at live targets with.
Sorry shane, little slow today.
are you quoting somebody with initials D.E.P. ?
I don't believe that sport hunting is based on the premise that animals can see,hear,smell etc. before you see them. It simply pits your stalking and planning skill against their collective survival instincts. You win one round and fill your freezer if you plan to be unseen and can successfully execute a perfect long range shot. The shot would not be happenstance and would require long and costly time at the bench to prepare for the moment in question and you would still have to carefully evaluate the terrain and choose the best place to make the shot happen to your advantage. Causal and unprepared hunters will rarely make this scenario play out to their advantage. I don't hunt this way preferring the in your face situations but have absolutely no issues with the professional grade hunters who can set up to make long range hunting a successful and humane activity.
DEP = David E. Petzal, a F&S writer
libertyfirst, you put it as well as I've ever seen. Well done.
Well said, liberty. It looks to me like if we adhered to the definition of "sporting" put forth in the question, we'd be limited to flushing game and shooting it on the run/wing which, except in the case of small game shot with a shotgun, would be unethical because of the high chance of wounding and losing larger animals. The question of shooting running game has been covered on this site before. That's just my two cent's worth.
Props to libertyfirst...well said +1. Also, +1 for country road. I honestly believe that making the quickest and most humane kill is the most important of any successful hunt. The methods may not always seem sporting, but sometimes "sporting" is also trumped my the need to put meat on the table.
by...not my :-)
+1 for liberty first!
I was quoting Petzal. Looking for everyone's reaction to his quote.
I think the quote assumes a constraining definition of fair chase. I don't agree that "fair chase" defines sport hunting.
Sport hunting just means there are limits set on the hunter. Bag limits, weapons limits, hunting hours limits, season limits. Without these restrictions, it would be chaos, and the resource would be rapidly depleted.
I would contrast sport hunting with market hunting to search for a definition.
A +1 for libertyfirst... very well said. Because of the challenge of preparing for and actually succeeding with long range shot, I think it is much more sporting than shooting an animal walking down a trail at 100 yards. If I have a rifle, I don't think the animal has much of a sporting chance if it is standing still inside of 500 yards.
+1 to libertyfirst. Clearly stated.
A 500 yard shot is a long shot, edging up on unethical for most hunters. Although if you are an accurate shot at 500 yards, shooting is the sport for you. With the "fair chase" talk, if you aren't poaching and the game is not behind a high fence it is hunting. If you are a poacher you are too lazy to do it right and your no hunter. If you hunt behind a high fence, you don't want to work hard, and want a trophy that you can neglect to tell your friends that "fluffy" was fed growth hormones and had it's antlers massaged every morning before you shot it when it walked to the truck for the morning feeding.
babsfish4life, the post isn't about making a shot, though, but about if the animal should be made aware of your presence.
Poaching is still hunting. Any time the goal is to stalk or kill a wild animal, it is hunting; it's not sports hunting, and it's not legal hunting. It could still be ethical if the animal's suffering is minimized and the safety of other humans is not comporomised.
There is another post trying to distinguish ethics and sporting. I think we have different words so we can think and communicate effectively.
Everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but some opinions are better than others.
You 500 yard wannabe's have been watching too much Outdoor Channel & Gunwerks "infomercial" hunting shows.
In my mind, poaching is a crime which disqualifies it from hunting. I just must have a different definition of hunting than LesserSon, which is fine. I just have a better opinion apparently, is that what you were saying?
To elmer fudd.
I think he means "Department of Environmental Protection." I just googled it. But I cant tell what your trying to say. because I dont know of anywhere near where I live to shoot a deer at 500-yards. the farthest a deer has been to me before I fired was about 100 yards.
"Because of the challenge of preparing for and actually succeeding with long range shot, I think it is much more sporting than shooting an animal walking down a trail at 100 yards."
This isn't a shooting contest though. This is hunting. Any person trained and practiced to shoot well at 500+ yards can easily take almost any game animal they want, even with no hunting experience. It takes no stealth, woodsmanship, or stalking skills to do this. It's just spot and shoot.
I don't find those long shots to be that much of a challenge on deer or larger sized game. Anyone with the right equipment and teacher can get pretty proficient at these ranges in no time. It takes years of experience/practice/preparation as well as natural instinct to kill a deer at bow ranges, not to mention say, 7 yards from the ground.
You can either use technology to take animals at long range, or you can use your skills to get close.
No not Dept. of Environmental Protection.
This is a quote from David E. Petzal - DEP.
There aren't any constraining definitions. He's basically saying that outside of making the shot, there is no challenge in hunting at those ranges.
Agreed with Big O and + 1 for you sir!!!
Post an Answer
I don't believe that sport hunting is based on the premise that animals can see,hear,smell etc. before you see them. It simply pits your stalking and planning skill against their collective survival instincts. You win one round and fill your freezer if you plan to be unseen and can successfully execute a perfect long range shot. The shot would not be happenstance and would require long and costly time at the bench to prepare for the moment in question and you would still have to carefully evaluate the terrain and choose the best place to make the shot happen to your advantage. Causal and unprepared hunters will rarely make this scenario play out to their advantage. I don't hunt this way preferring the in your face situations but have absolutely no issues with the professional grade hunters who can set up to make long range hunting a successful and humane activity.
Not sure where you were/are going with this one bud.
Props to libertyfirst...well said +1. Also, +1 for country road. I honestly believe that making the quickest and most humane kill is the most important of any successful hunt. The methods may not always seem sporting, but sometimes "sporting" is also trumped my the need to put meat on the table.
Well said, liberty. It looks to me like if we adhered to the definition of "sporting" put forth in the question, we'd be limited to flushing game and shooting it on the run/wing which, except in the case of small game shot with a shotgun, would be unethical because of the high chance of wounding and losing larger animals. The question of shooting running game has been covered on this site before. That's just my two cent's worth.
DEP = David E. Petzal, a F&S writer
libertyfirst, you put it as well as I've ever seen. Well done.
In my mind, poaching is a crime which disqualifies it from hunting. I just must have a different definition of hunting than LesserSon, which is fine. I just have a better opinion apparently, is that what you were saying?
I'm with you there Big O. I was reading along and wondering where the payoff was? Maybe PETA hacked his computer before he could type the last of his thought...
+1 for liberty first!
+1 to libertyfirst. Clearly stated.
I was quoting Petzal. Looking for everyone's reaction to his quote.
Got to go into the "boards" area. Some on was looking for advice on a reliable 600+ yd rifle to shoot at live targets with.
Sorry shane, little slow today.
A +1 for libertyfirst... very well said. Because of the challenge of preparing for and actually succeeding with long range shot, I think it is much more sporting than shooting an animal walking down a trail at 100 yards. If I have a rifle, I don't think the animal has much of a sporting chance if it is standing still inside of 500 yards.
You 500 yard wannabe's have been watching too much Outdoor Channel & Gunwerks "infomercial" hunting shows.
are you quoting somebody with initials D.E.P. ?
"Because of the challenge of preparing for and actually succeeding with long range shot, I think it is much more sporting than shooting an animal walking down a trail at 100 yards."
This isn't a shooting contest though. This is hunting. Any person trained and practiced to shoot well at 500+ yards can easily take almost any game animal they want, even with no hunting experience. It takes no stealth, woodsmanship, or stalking skills to do this. It's just spot and shoot.
I don't find those long shots to be that much of a challenge on deer or larger sized game. Anyone with the right equipment and teacher can get pretty proficient at these ranges in no time. It takes years of experience/practice/preparation as well as natural instinct to kill a deer at bow ranges, not to mention say, 7 yards from the ground.
You can either use technology to take animals at long range, or you can use your skills to get close.
No not Dept. of Environmental Protection.
This is a quote from David E. Petzal - DEP.
There aren't any constraining definitions. He's basically saying that outside of making the shot, there is no challenge in hunting at those ranges.
I think the quote assumes a constraining definition of fair chase. I don't agree that "fair chase" defines sport hunting.
Sport hunting just means there are limits set on the hunter. Bag limits, weapons limits, hunting hours limits, season limits. Without these restrictions, it would be chaos, and the resource would be rapidly depleted.
I would contrast sport hunting with market hunting to search for a definition.
babsfish4life, the post isn't about making a shot, though, but about if the animal should be made aware of your presence.
Poaching is still hunting. Any time the goal is to stalk or kill a wild animal, it is hunting; it's not sports hunting, and it's not legal hunting. It could still be ethical if the animal's suffering is minimized and the safety of other humans is not comporomised.
There is another post trying to distinguish ethics and sporting. I think we have different words so we can think and communicate effectively.
Everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but some opinions are better than others.
by...not my :-)
Agreed with Big O and + 1 for you sir!!!
A 500 yard shot is a long shot, edging up on unethical for most hunters. Although if you are an accurate shot at 500 yards, shooting is the sport for you. With the "fair chase" talk, if you aren't poaching and the game is not behind a high fence it is hunting. If you are a poacher you are too lazy to do it right and your no hunter. If you hunt behind a high fence, you don't want to work hard, and want a trophy that you can neglect to tell your friends that "fluffy" was fed growth hormones and had it's antlers massaged every morning before you shot it when it walked to the truck for the morning feeding.
To elmer fudd.
I think he means "Department of Environmental Protection." I just googled it. But I cant tell what your trying to say. because I dont know of anywhere near where I live to shoot a deer at 500-yards. the farthest a deer has been to me before I fired was about 100 yards.
Post an Answer