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AnswersASK YOUR QUESTION

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Q:
I need your help. I am shooting a 300 Win Mag -26" barrel- 180 gr. Barnes and am 2" high at 100 yards and 4" high at 200. I don't have the available yardage to go out to 300 yards to find out where the zero is at or to find out what is going on! I thought I should be at 2" high at 200 but am not. Has anyone had this same experience? What should I do? Thanks for your assistance. gary

Question by gman1. Uploaded on September 04, 2011

Answers (20)

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

2 at 100 and 4 at 200?

You shooting down hill?

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from gman1 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

No, it is pretty much a straight shot.... excuse the pun :) I can't imagine the bullet rising any further and maybe I am close to zero at 300 yds. but looking at the ballistic charts I should if I am 2" high at 100 yards I should by zeroed at 250 .

gary

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from DakotaMan wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

I have not had an extreme variance such as this occur. You are right though, according to the Barnes manual, you should be zeroed for 250 yards when you are 2 inches high at 100 yards for a 180 boat tail bullet at 2900 fps. You should expect to hit about 2 inches high at 200 yards too. Make sure the bullet you are testing is the one referred to in the trajectory chart... bullet aerodynamics are very capable of that much variance.

The bullet itself and atmospheric conditions certainly can affect trajectory but usually not to the extent that you are seeing. Altitude, temperature, humidity and shot angle all have their impact. The best thing to do it to test it in your rifle for the atmosphere you will hunt... what you see is what is true for you in the conditions and specific bullet you shoot.

We all have our preferences but I personally zero my .300 Dakota at 200 yards or 1 inch high at 100 yards. Most of my real hunting shots are inside of 250 yards but I can still follow verified bullet drop out to 1000 yards if I need it and I have minimal (and easily seen) holdover out to 500 yards.

Your best bet is to find a longer range target area and spend some time shooting at each 100 yard increment that you intend to shoot and record the actual drop for your use. I do this out to 500 yards for all my rifles and out to 1000 yards for my .300 Dakota. In that rifle, individual manufacturer's bullets account for up to six inches of drop variance at 600 yards.

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from Greenhead wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

I agree with the above, this is odd, and the best thing to do would be to find a longer range. Since it sounds like that is not an option, see what it does at 25, 50, and 75 yards. If something really wonky is going on, that might reveal it.

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from 99explorer wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

I am thinking that there may be something wrong with your scope.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

How high is your scope mounted above the bore? If you have a Hubble mounted way above the bore, you might encounter this anomaly, but if you are in standard mounts 1.5 inches above the bore, no way.

Try loading the BC and actual velocity of your rounds into a ballistics calculator and see where you are at 50, 75, 100, 150 yards with GROUPS, not one or two shots.

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from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

I hate to dispute your word but I think it is physically impossible for the round to be 2 inches high at 100 and 4 inches high at 200. I have been loading and testing for over 50 years and have never had anything like that happen. I have no explanation for what you are saying. I don't think that the height of the scope mounting would make that much difference. It will be interesting to find out what is going on.

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from gman1 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

I will find a 300 yard range and go from there. If I come back into zero say at 300 yards I guess that would be acceptable. The scope is a Zeiss with leupold rings/ mounts on a Browning x bolt. Wouldn't the bullet start dropping after 200 yards ?

Thanks everyone for the input!! gary

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from gman1 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Another thing I could try is go to 1" high at 100 yards and see what the bullet does then at 200 yards. Any thoughts ??

gary

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Sarge01 Got the same experience here and for shooting 2 inches high at 100 for a 300 yard zero, your muzzle velocity must be around 3700 fps.

180 grain at 3700 fps

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 600
-1.5 2.0 2.6 0.0 -6.4 -16.9 -32.4

180 grain at 3100 fps

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 600
-1.5 3.3 4.0 0.0 -9.4 -25.1 -48.0

So he's minus one inch off at 100 yards or cranking around 3700 fps and is 1.4 inches high at 200 yards.

Numbers don't add up

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Stop screwing around and sight in at 200 yards. I have witnessed a many hunters in Alaska who think they know more and get this wild hair to sight in out somewhere into the next zip code when the average shot is within 150 yards or less and blow the shot each and every time!

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from 99explorer wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

It is possible at extremely high velocities for a rifle bullet to continue climbing past 100 yards, and be even higher at 200 yards than at 100 yards. Such is the case with the .257 Weatherby Magnum and .270 Weatherby Magnum calibers. Just sayin.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

My 7mm Weatherby does not exhibit any of those erratic flight manuevers. A 180 .300 Win Mag factory load probably isn't even breaking 2,900 fps. Hardly extreme velocity IMO. Check for loose mounts and proper mounting. Might also be a little mangumitis going on.

Shoot a consistent 1.5 inch group centered on the target before you start chasing demons. If you can't hold 1.5" at 100 yards with Barnes Vor-Tx factory ammo, something is wrong.

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from scratchgolf72 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

this is weird....may have to call pilot error on this one.

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from Treestand wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

What Brand scope do you have, and Make of Rifle, are you cleaning the barrel after your 100yd shoot?
I looks to me your 100yd is not a 100yd...may be 75yd??

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Where do you want your rifle to be dead on ? 200 ? If so put it dead on at 200 you said you have the range. Bullets don't climb, they start dropping as soon as they leave the barrel. They might rise above line of sight but they won't rise above line of the bore. I'm still researching on this situation but haven't found an answer.

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from 99explorer wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Come to think of it, the trajectory of a bullet is a parabolic curve, with the apex always closer to the zero range than the muzzle. So, the farther a rifle is sighted in for, the farther the apex will be from the muzzle.
Check the ballistics tables. Every cartridge sighted in for three hundred yards is higher (in relation to the line of sight)at 200 yards than it is at 100 yards.

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from gman1 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

99explorer: I think you may have "hit the target" in that I need to find a 300 yard range and will see what happens.I bet you are correct with your answer and will let you know once I shoot at 300 yds. Thanks for your help and happy trails.

gary

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from gman1 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

99explorer:
I went out to a ballistics calculator and what I thought couldn't happen .. can. What you said about the rise of the bullet checked out! The calculator shows 3.6 high at 100 and 4.3 at 200 and zeroed at 300. The bullet will rise and I bet I will find myself to be zeroed at 300 once I am able to shoot at that range. Thanks for your help!!
Happy Trails .......gary

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Please send me some of those "rising bullets"!

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from DakotaMan wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

I have not had an extreme variance such as this occur. You are right though, according to the Barnes manual, you should be zeroed for 250 yards when you are 2 inches high at 100 yards for a 180 boat tail bullet at 2900 fps. You should expect to hit about 2 inches high at 200 yards too. Make sure the bullet you are testing is the one referred to in the trajectory chart... bullet aerodynamics are very capable of that much variance.

The bullet itself and atmospheric conditions certainly can affect trajectory but usually not to the extent that you are seeing. Altitude, temperature, humidity and shot angle all have their impact. The best thing to do it to test it in your rifle for the atmosphere you will hunt... what you see is what is true for you in the conditions and specific bullet you shoot.

We all have our preferences but I personally zero my .300 Dakota at 200 yards or 1 inch high at 100 yards. Most of my real hunting shots are inside of 250 yards but I can still follow verified bullet drop out to 1000 yards if I need it and I have minimal (and easily seen) holdover out to 500 yards.

Your best bet is to find a longer range target area and spend some time shooting at each 100 yard increment that you intend to shoot and record the actual drop for your use. I do this out to 500 yards for all my rifles and out to 1000 yards for my .300 Dakota. In that rifle, individual manufacturer's bullets account for up to six inches of drop variance at 600 yards.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

I am thinking that there may be something wrong with your scope.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

I hate to dispute your word but I think it is physically impossible for the round to be 2 inches high at 100 and 4 inches high at 200. I have been loading and testing for over 50 years and have never had anything like that happen. I have no explanation for what you are saying. I don't think that the height of the scope mounting would make that much difference. It will be interesting to find out what is going on.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

It is possible at extremely high velocities for a rifle bullet to continue climbing past 100 yards, and be even higher at 200 yards than at 100 yards. Such is the case with the .257 Weatherby Magnum and .270 Weatherby Magnum calibers. Just sayin.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from scratchgolf72 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

this is weird....may have to call pilot error on this one.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Treestand wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

What Brand scope do you have, and Make of Rifle, are you cleaning the barrel after your 100yd shoot?
I looks to me your 100yd is not a 100yd...may be 75yd??

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

2 at 100 and 4 at 200?

You shooting down hill?

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from gman1 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

No, it is pretty much a straight shot.... excuse the pun :) I can't imagine the bullet rising any further and maybe I am close to zero at 300 yds. but looking at the ballistic charts I should if I am 2" high at 100 yards I should by zeroed at 250 .

gary

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Greenhead wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

I agree with the above, this is odd, and the best thing to do would be to find a longer range. Since it sounds like that is not an option, see what it does at 25, 50, and 75 yards. If something really wonky is going on, that might reveal it.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

How high is your scope mounted above the bore? If you have a Hubble mounted way above the bore, you might encounter this anomaly, but if you are in standard mounts 1.5 inches above the bore, no way.

Try loading the BC and actual velocity of your rounds into a ballistics calculator and see where you are at 50, 75, 100, 150 yards with GROUPS, not one or two shots.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from gman1 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

I will find a 300 yard range and go from there. If I come back into zero say at 300 yards I guess that would be acceptable. The scope is a Zeiss with leupold rings/ mounts on a Browning x bolt. Wouldn't the bullet start dropping after 200 yards ?

Thanks everyone for the input!! gary

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from gman1 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Another thing I could try is go to 1" high at 100 yards and see what the bullet does then at 200 yards. Any thoughts ??

gary

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Sarge01 Got the same experience here and for shooting 2 inches high at 100 for a 300 yard zero, your muzzle velocity must be around 3700 fps.

180 grain at 3700 fps

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 600
-1.5 2.0 2.6 0.0 -6.4 -16.9 -32.4

180 grain at 3100 fps

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500 600
-1.5 3.3 4.0 0.0 -9.4 -25.1 -48.0

So he's minus one inch off at 100 yards or cranking around 3700 fps and is 1.4 inches high at 200 yards.

Numbers don't add up

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Stop screwing around and sight in at 200 yards. I have witnessed a many hunters in Alaska who think they know more and get this wild hair to sight in out somewhere into the next zip code when the average shot is within 150 yards or less and blow the shot each and every time!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

My 7mm Weatherby does not exhibit any of those erratic flight manuevers. A 180 .300 Win Mag factory load probably isn't even breaking 2,900 fps. Hardly extreme velocity IMO. Check for loose mounts and proper mounting. Might also be a little mangumitis going on.

Shoot a consistent 1.5 inch group centered on the target before you start chasing demons. If you can't hold 1.5" at 100 yards with Barnes Vor-Tx factory ammo, something is wrong.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Where do you want your rifle to be dead on ? 200 ? If so put it dead on at 200 you said you have the range. Bullets don't climb, they start dropping as soon as they leave the barrel. They might rise above line of sight but they won't rise above line of the bore. I'm still researching on this situation but haven't found an answer.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Come to think of it, the trajectory of a bullet is a parabolic curve, with the apex always closer to the zero range than the muzzle. So, the farther a rifle is sighted in for, the farther the apex will be from the muzzle.
Check the ballistics tables. Every cartridge sighted in for three hundred yards is higher (in relation to the line of sight)at 200 yards than it is at 100 yards.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from gman1 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

99explorer: I think you may have "hit the target" in that I need to find a 300 yard range and will see what happens.I bet you are correct with your answer and will let you know once I shoot at 300 yds. Thanks for your help and happy trails.

gary

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from gman1 wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

99explorer:
I went out to a ballistics calculator and what I thought couldn't happen .. can. What you said about the rise of the bullet checked out! The calculator shows 3.6 high at 100 and 4.3 at 200 and zeroed at 300. The bullet will rise and I bet I will find myself to be zeroed at 300 once I am able to shoot at that range. Thanks for your help!!
Happy Trails .......gary

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 32 weeks ago

Please send me some of those "rising bullets"!

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post an Answer