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Q:
what was the first centerfire ammo caliber invented? not counting revolver. i'm talking rifles. i have it narrowed down to the .30-06, 30-30, and maybe a 6.5X55

Question by Reid Jones. Uploaded on May 24, 2009

Answers (16)

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from hunterkid94 wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

im pretty sure its the 30-30.

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from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

nope it is none of those the 30-30 came out in 1895 in the win. mod 94. the 30-06 Springfield was made in 1906 hence the 30 for caliber and 06 for the year it was made . and the 6.5 was made around 1884 .there several older rounds out there than any of them like the 50-70 from 1866 , 45-75, 40-60, 45-60, at around 1876. i cant say for sure the very first one but i think it may be the 50-70 it was made just after the civil war . hope that helps ya

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

30-30 Winchester
The .30-30 Winchester/.30 Winchester Center Fire/7.62x51Rmm cartridge was first marketed in early 1895 for the Winchester Model 1894 lever-action rifle.[2] The .30-30, as it is most commonly known, was America's first small-bore, sporting rifle cartridge designed for smokeless powder. The .30-30 is one of the most common deer cartridges in North America.

6.5x55 Model 1896 Rifle
The Model 1896 (M96) rifle (6,5 mm Gevär m/96) was adopted by Sweden on March 20, 1896, designed for use with the 6.5x55 round that had been adopted in 1893 by Sweden and Norway. Production initially began at the Mauser Obendorf factory in Germany under contract, but soon after Carl Gustav in Sweden were manufacturing the rifles as well. The Swedes felt that their indigenous steel was far superior to all others, and when Mauser was contracted to manufacture M96 rifles in Germany, they were required to use Swedish steel in the manufacturing process. The M96 remained in production until 1938, when it was replaced by the M38 Carbine.

30-06 Springfield
The .30-06 Springfield cartridge (pronounced “thirty-aught-six” or "thirty-oh-six") or 7.62 x 63 mm in metric notation, was introduced to the United States Army in 1906 (hence “06”) and standardized, used until the 1960s and early 1970s. It replaced the .30-03, 6 mm Lee Navy and .30 US Army (also called .30-40 Krag). The .30-06 remained the US Army's main cartridge for nearly 50 years before it was finally replaced by the 7.62 x 51 mm (7.62x51mm NATO, commercial .308 Winchester). It remains the most popular big-game cartridge in North America, and among the most popular worldwide.

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from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

clay the 30- 30 was not the first center fire rifle round invented . all that i listed are older than the 30-30 and all are center fire rounds .

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from Ed J wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

.45-70 was adopted by the US military in 1873. It was the official cartridge for about 19 years.

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from Ed J wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Reid
Get the book "Cartriges of the World" by Frank C. Barnes. All kinds of interesting cartridges in it.
The .50-70 Musket (.50 Govt.) would be the oldest centerfire used by the military. In use from 1866 to 1873.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Reid, you didn't identify black powder or smokeless. 30-30 is first for smokeless. For black powder, that may be a bigger argument than 'what is the best caliber for deer'.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

cooner

What was the rreal first center fire cartridge made I don’t really know, but I do know the three you listed are fantastic cartridges and I own all three.

I’ve found thru history one thing for certain, Guglielmo Marconi was not the real inventor of the first radio transmitter.

http://www.ccrane.com/library/who-invented-radio.aspx

While googling around I found this link. One cartridge list is a 338/50, a 50BMG necked down to 338 cal shooting a 250 grain at 3700fps

GOT TO CHECK THIS OUT!!

http://books.google.com/books?id=UoWa4CeDOccC&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=worl...

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from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

clay i will have to take a look at that

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from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I think we need to look it up, but I don't think America made the first centerfire cartridge. It may be England.

But the .45-70, like above, is the oldest commercial reference to centerfire ammo...

"The 45-70 dates back to as early as 1865 but it wasn't standardized until 1873, a U.S. Government contract was issued for several thousand Springfield rifles chambered for the 45-70, it was then called the 45-70 Government cartridge."

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from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Then... There's history versus claims.

There are many references to the .45-70 going back about to the War of Northern Aggression.

However, Winchester themselves claim that the .44-40 was the first successful centerfire round. To quote from their site:

"Winchester® Supreme® Centerfire Rifle Ammunition stands as the most technologically advanced line of centerfire rifle ammunition in history - a history 127 years in the making. In 1873, less than a decade after the Civil War and when Westward expansion was in full gallop, Winchester introduced the first successful centerfire cartridge: the .44 WCF (.44-40). Designed for double duty in both rifles and handguns, this is the cartridge that won the west. And to hunters and sportsmen wanting the ultimate ammunition for any big-game need, Winchester has been delivering ever since."

So there are conflicting dates to "first", "first commercial", "first successful", and "first official".

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from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Whooo hooo! 1857!!! I win so far... Except this story doesn't even mention a caliber, it's from a history guide to gunsmithing.

"1857 - S&W started something that changed all this in America by introducing a successful metallic cartridge in 1857. The metallic cartridge was self-contained, meaning it carried its own powder, ball and primer cap all in one neat little package, and this package worked ...S&W started something that changed all this in America by introducing a successful metallic cartridge in 1857. The metallic cartridge was self-contained, meaning it carried its own powder, ball and primer cap all in one neat little package, and this package worked beautifully when loaded through the back of the barrel; ie: in a breechloader. The new metallic cartridge offered far quicker loading and re-loading, and perhaps of equal importance, it was waterproof."

Link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=IV8IzXysjeUC&pg=PA341&sig=4bfFGwawYK31q...

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from MLH wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

The first S&W metallic cartridges were rimfires, not centerfires.

Where is Wane Van Zwoll when you need him to answer a question like this? ... perhaps the .61 caliber, paper-wrapped bullet with integral primer in the von Dreyse needle gun (1835) ... but the primer was located center between the powder and bullet.

For metallic, I'll go with Ed J that the .50 Government seems to get the nod.

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from MLH wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Forgot .. if you don't mind the primer (percussion cap) being separate from the metallic cartridge with central opening then consider the 1856 Maynard.

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from MLH wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

First smokeless cartridge was probably the 8mm Lebel in 1886.

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from Denis V. Murphy II wrote 7 weeks 4 days ago

The oldest military cartiidge still in use today is the 7.62X54r developed for the Mosin Nagant rifle. Which is used by the CCCP/Russia Federation/ Finns in the 91/30. 91 is 1891 first MN, the 30 is 1930 when they changed the rifle not the cartridge. So used in MN 91/30, M44, T-53, SVT-38, SVT-40, Dragonuv sniper rifle today, and a light machine gun. you can buy 880 surplus rounds for less than 250.00 in today's market

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from hunterkid94 wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

im pretty sure its the 30-30.

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from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

nope it is none of those the 30-30 came out in 1895 in the win. mod 94. the 30-06 Springfield was made in 1906 hence the 30 for caliber and 06 for the year it was made . and the 6.5 was made around 1884 .there several older rounds out there than any of them like the 50-70 from 1866 , 45-75, 40-60, 45-60, at around 1876. i cant say for sure the very first one but i think it may be the 50-70 it was made just after the civil war . hope that helps ya

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

30-30 Winchester
The .30-30 Winchester/.30 Winchester Center Fire/7.62x51Rmm cartridge was first marketed in early 1895 for the Winchester Model 1894 lever-action rifle.[2] The .30-30, as it is most commonly known, was America's first small-bore, sporting rifle cartridge designed for smokeless powder. The .30-30 is one of the most common deer cartridges in North America.

6.5x55 Model 1896 Rifle
The Model 1896 (M96) rifle (6,5 mm Gevär m/96) was adopted by Sweden on March 20, 1896, designed for use with the 6.5x55 round that had been adopted in 1893 by Sweden and Norway. Production initially began at the Mauser Obendorf factory in Germany under contract, but soon after Carl Gustav in Sweden were manufacturing the rifles as well. The Swedes felt that their indigenous steel was far superior to all others, and when Mauser was contracted to manufacture M96 rifles in Germany, they were required to use Swedish steel in the manufacturing process. The M96 remained in production until 1938, when it was replaced by the M38 Carbine.

30-06 Springfield
The .30-06 Springfield cartridge (pronounced “thirty-aught-six” or "thirty-oh-six") or 7.62 x 63 mm in metric notation, was introduced to the United States Army in 1906 (hence “06”) and standardized, used until the 1960s and early 1970s. It replaced the .30-03, 6 mm Lee Navy and .30 US Army (also called .30-40 Krag). The .30-06 remained the US Army's main cartridge for nearly 50 years before it was finally replaced by the 7.62 x 51 mm (7.62x51mm NATO, commercial .308 Winchester). It remains the most popular big-game cartridge in North America, and among the most popular worldwide.

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from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

clay the 30- 30 was not the first center fire rifle round invented . all that i listed are older than the 30-30 and all are center fire rounds .

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ed J wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

.45-70 was adopted by the US military in 1873. It was the official cartridge for about 19 years.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ed J wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Reid
Get the book "Cartriges of the World" by Frank C. Barnes. All kinds of interesting cartridges in it.
The .50-70 Musket (.50 Govt.) would be the oldest centerfire used by the military. In use from 1866 to 1873.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Reid, you didn't identify black powder or smokeless. 30-30 is first for smokeless. For black powder, that may be a bigger argument than 'what is the best caliber for deer'.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

cooner

What was the rreal first center fire cartridge made I don’t really know, but I do know the three you listed are fantastic cartridges and I own all three.

I’ve found thru history one thing for certain, Guglielmo Marconi was not the real inventor of the first radio transmitter.

http://www.ccrane.com/library/who-invented-radio.aspx

While googling around I found this link. One cartridge list is a 338/50, a 50BMG necked down to 338 cal shooting a 250 grain at 3700fps

GOT TO CHECK THIS OUT!!

http://books.google.com/books?id=UoWa4CeDOccC&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=worl...

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

clay i will have to take a look at that

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

I think we need to look it up, but I don't think America made the first centerfire cartridge. It may be England.

But the .45-70, like above, is the oldest commercial reference to centerfire ammo...

"The 45-70 dates back to as early as 1865 but it wasn't standardized until 1873, a U.S. Government contract was issued for several thousand Springfield rifles chambered for the 45-70, it was then called the 45-70 Government cartridge."

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Then... There's history versus claims.

There are many references to the .45-70 going back about to the War of Northern Aggression.

However, Winchester themselves claim that the .44-40 was the first successful centerfire round. To quote from their site:

"Winchester® Supreme® Centerfire Rifle Ammunition stands as the most technologically advanced line of centerfire rifle ammunition in history - a history 127 years in the making. In 1873, less than a decade after the Civil War and when Westward expansion was in full gallop, Winchester introduced the first successful centerfire cartridge: the .44 WCF (.44-40). Designed for double duty in both rifles and handguns, this is the cartridge that won the west. And to hunters and sportsmen wanting the ultimate ammunition for any big-game need, Winchester has been delivering ever since."

So there are conflicting dates to "first", "first commercial", "first successful", and "first official".

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jeff Bowers wrote 4 years 46 weeks ago

Whooo hooo! 1857!!! I win so far... Except this story doesn't even mention a caliber, it's from a history guide to gunsmithing.

"1857 - S&W started something that changed all this in America by introducing a successful metallic cartridge in 1857. The metallic cartridge was self-contained, meaning it carried its own powder, ball and primer cap all in one neat little package, and this package worked ...S&W started something that changed all this in America by introducing a successful metallic cartridge in 1857. The metallic cartridge was self-contained, meaning it carried its own powder, ball and primer cap all in one neat little package, and this package worked beautifully when loaded through the back of the barrel; ie: in a breechloader. The new metallic cartridge offered far quicker loading and re-loading, and perhaps of equal importance, it was waterproof."

Link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=IV8IzXysjeUC&pg=PA341&sig=4bfFGwawYK31q...

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

The first S&W metallic cartridges were rimfires, not centerfires.

Where is Wane Van Zwoll when you need him to answer a question like this? ... perhaps the .61 caliber, paper-wrapped bullet with integral primer in the von Dreyse needle gun (1835) ... but the primer was located center between the powder and bullet.

For metallic, I'll go with Ed J that the .50 Government seems to get the nod.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

Forgot .. if you don't mind the primer (percussion cap) being separate from the metallic cartridge with central opening then consider the 1856 Maynard.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MLH wrote 4 years 45 weeks ago

First smokeless cartridge was probably the 8mm Lebel in 1886.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Denis V. Murphy II wrote 7 weeks 4 days ago

The oldest military cartiidge still in use today is the 7.62X54r developed for the Mosin Nagant rifle. Which is used by the CCCP/Russia Federation/ Finns in the 91/30. 91 is 1891 first MN, the 30 is 1930 when they changed the rifle not the cartridge. So used in MN 91/30, M44, T-53, SVT-38, SVT-40, Dragonuv sniper rifle today, and a light machine gun. you can buy 880 surplus rounds for less than 250.00 in today's market

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