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Q:
IN MO and KS .223 cal. centerfire deer rifles are not legal. Should they be made legal? Also Big O I left you another story on the thread by idahooutdoors dated June 14th.

Question by Del in KS. Uploaded on June 15, 2009

Answers (17)

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from Big O wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

As to the .223 cal. question. Yes, if they are good enough for the military they should be good enough to hunt with. As for your other, where? Having trouble finding it. Thanks in advance Del, love your story's

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from Del in KS wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

I goofed it was dated 6-12. The ? about seeing animals you were not hunting.

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from Big O wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

Thanks again Del loved the story and the pic is GREAT !

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from 007 wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

Hello Del, in my humble opinion I think anything smaller than 24 caliber should not be allowed. To clarify, you and I both know the great .223 is adequate for whitetails IF the bullet is put where it belongs. The sad truth of the matter is that there are too many out there with Hornets, Fireballs, .222's, .223's, etc that practice "spray and pray" rather than shot placement. The same can be said of .30 Carbines and 7.62x39's (.30 Russian)for that matter but until we find a way to regulate morons, we have to go with caliber restrictions. Not the best solution but all we have for now. Good hunting!

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from matouse3 wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

I've shot several deer with a .243, it does the job, but I stopped using it for deer due to the fact that it screams through the animal and if you don't hit some bone, it leaves a tiny exit wound. Not that it's not lethal, but the lack of blood trail it the problem. I would not be in favor of anything smaller being used on whitetails.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

Del in KS

You may have read several of my rants about using .22 centerfires for deer. Not legal in Washington or Colorado either. Both require .24 cal / 6mm or larger.

You will hear from newbies like "RJ" and experts like Clay Cooper that a .223 will take deer hit properly in the vitals. The latter is likely very capable and the former may not be since he is all of 14 years old.

As I posted in another thread, the average hunter out there can't hit a stationary pickup truck at 500 yards offhand and probably not a target 1/10th the size at half the distance, so the precise bullet placement argument doesn't hold shucks as far as I'm concerned.

007 summed it up quite well also.

WA Mtnhunter

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from shane wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

No. What's the point? I'm sick of the shot placement argument too. I will continue placing my shots correctly with larger rifles.

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from hunterkid94 wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

I dont think so in KS. but im not sure just basing it off the fact that i hear its flat there.

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from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

well in the hands of an experienced trigger man who will wait for shot placement they are fine. but i think to many nim rods and and uneducated hunters ( i guess the same thing ) will just not make the shot count. so no i do not think it should be allowed . it is to easy to mess up and wound . 55 grain varmint rounds are deer rounds and that is what most would use to hunt with .

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

http://www.federalpremium.com/recommendation/default.aspx

.223?

22-250 is .224 diameter! So thats legal right!

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from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

If you hit a deer in the right rear leg with a 223

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from rabbitpolice88 wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

The .223 is the smallest legal rifle to hunt deer with in Ga. I do not think it should be legal to hunt deer with at all. I have heard way too many stories of wounded game getting away. Often people let first time hunters and small kids shoot the .223 because of no recoil. If anything it should be the experienced hunter who uses a calliber that small on Deer. I am against the .223 for deer for these reasons.

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from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

Good hunters will kill deer each and every shot with whatever rifle you give them. Poor hunters will wound and lose whatever they shoot at. I've never thought that the caliber matters as much as the shooter.

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from Del in KS wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

All made good points but I just checked and I was wrong about MO their regs allow any centerfire rifle. That means even a 17 Remington is legal in MO. Guess my memory is going.
Clay it looks like you may be right. KS reg says must be over .223 cal. with a case length of 1.280 inch or more. That would make most 22 centerfires legal as they are .224 cal.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

Del and Clay

I would not bet the barn on the game warden and courts interpretation of "over .223 caliber" being actual bullet diameter.

The KS regs state in part "Legal rifle for deer - centerfire rifles that are not fully automatic and that fire a bullet larger than .23 inches in diameter, while using only hard-cast solid lead, soft point, hollow point, or other expanding bullets."

That leave out EVERY .22 centerfire and would begin with the .243/6mm cartridges. I copied the quote directly from the KS regs. Looks like you missed a digit. That case length is from the handgun section.

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from DakotaMan wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

Technicalities aside, most states do allow a .223 to be used for deer hunting and some states make anything that is fun illegal. There really isn't much difference between the damage a .223 and a .243 do to a deer heart at 100 yards and of course the military does occassionaly use a .223 for lethal purposes.

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from lasmacgod wrote 4 years 34 weeks ago

Yes, the .223 should be made legal, but with some restrictions. In fact, these restrictions should be in place for all calibers. Kansas should restrict bullet weights. Everybody is concerned that this is a "varmint" round. Well, so is a .243, .257 Roberts, .25-06, and so on. They are also excellent deer rounds, with the proper bullets. So, I would propose the following minimum bullet weights, provided they are soft points, hollow points, etc. In addition, I also propose a minimum of 1000 ft-lb muzzle energy as far as determining specific cartridges.

.22 - 64 grains
.24 - 85 grains
.25 - 100 grains
.26 - 120 grains
.27 - 120 grains
.28 - 120 grains
.30 - 150 grains

and so on and so forth. These bullet weights should encompass the bullets suitable for medium-size game. Yes, it does leave some out, but I think the benefits would outweigh any inconveniences.

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from 007 wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

Hello Del, in my humble opinion I think anything smaller than 24 caliber should not be allowed. To clarify, you and I both know the great .223 is adequate for whitetails IF the bullet is put where it belongs. The sad truth of the matter is that there are too many out there with Hornets, Fireballs, .222's, .223's, etc that practice "spray and pray" rather than shot placement. The same can be said of .30 Carbines and 7.62x39's (.30 Russian)for that matter but until we find a way to regulate morons, we have to go with caliber restrictions. Not the best solution but all we have for now. Good hunting!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from matouse3 wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

I've shot several deer with a .243, it does the job, but I stopped using it for deer due to the fact that it screams through the animal and if you don't hit some bone, it leaves a tiny exit wound. Not that it's not lethal, but the lack of blood trail it the problem. I would not be in favor of anything smaller being used on whitetails.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

Del in KS

You may have read several of my rants about using .22 centerfires for deer. Not legal in Washington or Colorado either. Both require .24 cal / 6mm or larger.

You will hear from newbies like "RJ" and experts like Clay Cooper that a .223 will take deer hit properly in the vitals. The latter is likely very capable and the former may not be since he is all of 14 years old.

As I posted in another thread, the average hunter out there can't hit a stationary pickup truck at 500 yards offhand and probably not a target 1/10th the size at half the distance, so the precise bullet placement argument doesn't hold shucks as far as I'm concerned.

007 summed it up quite well also.

WA Mtnhunter

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Hunter Savage wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

well in the hands of an experienced trigger man who will wait for shot placement they are fine. but i think to many nim rods and and uneducated hunters ( i guess the same thing ) will just not make the shot count. so no i do not think it should be allowed . it is to easy to mess up and wound . 55 grain varmint rounds are deer rounds and that is what most would use to hunt with .

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from rabbitpolice88 wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

The .223 is the smallest legal rifle to hunt deer with in Ga. I do not think it should be legal to hunt deer with at all. I have heard way too many stories of wounded game getting away. Often people let first time hunters and small kids shoot the .223 because of no recoil. If anything it should be the experienced hunter who uses a calliber that small on Deer. I am against the .223 for deer for these reasons.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Big O wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

As to the .223 cal. question. Yes, if they are good enough for the military they should be good enough to hunt with. As for your other, where? Having trouble finding it. Thanks in advance Del, love your story's

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from Del in KS wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

I goofed it was dated 6-12. The ? about seeing animals you were not hunting.

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from Big O wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

Thanks again Del loved the story and the pic is GREAT !

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from shane wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

No. What's the point? I'm sick of the shot placement argument too. I will continue placing my shots correctly with larger rifles.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from hunterkid94 wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

I dont think so in KS. but im not sure just basing it off the fact that i hear its flat there.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

http://www.federalpremium.com/recommendation/default.aspx

.223?

22-250 is .224 diameter! So thats legal right!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

If you hit a deer in the right rear leg with a 223

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from libertyfirst wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

Good hunters will kill deer each and every shot with whatever rifle you give them. Poor hunters will wound and lose whatever they shoot at. I've never thought that the caliber matters as much as the shooter.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Del in KS wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

All made good points but I just checked and I was wrong about MO their regs allow any centerfire rifle. That means even a 17 Remington is legal in MO. Guess my memory is going.
Clay it looks like you may be right. KS reg says must be over .223 cal. with a case length of 1.280 inch or more. That would make most 22 centerfires legal as they are .224 cal.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 4 years 43 weeks ago

Del and Clay

I would not bet the barn on the game warden and courts interpretation of "over .223 caliber" being actual bullet diameter.

The KS regs state in part "Legal rifle for deer - centerfire rifles that are not fully automatic and that fire a bullet larger than .23 inches in diameter, while using only hard-cast solid lead, soft point, hollow point, or other expanding bullets."

That leave out EVERY .22 centerfire and would begin with the .243/6mm cartridges. I copied the quote directly from the KS regs. Looks like you missed a digit. That case length is from the handgun section.

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from DakotaMan wrote 4 years 42 weeks ago

Technicalities aside, most states do allow a .223 to be used for deer hunting and some states make anything that is fun illegal. There really isn't much difference between the damage a .223 and a .243 do to a deer heart at 100 yards and of course the military does occassionaly use a .223 for lethal purposes.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from lasmacgod wrote 4 years 34 weeks ago

Yes, the .223 should be made legal, but with some restrictions. In fact, these restrictions should be in place for all calibers. Kansas should restrict bullet weights. Everybody is concerned that this is a "varmint" round. Well, so is a .243, .257 Roberts, .25-06, and so on. They are also excellent deer rounds, with the proper bullets. So, I would propose the following minimum bullet weights, provided they are soft points, hollow points, etc. In addition, I also propose a minimum of 1000 ft-lb muzzle energy as far as determining specific cartridges.

.22 - 64 grains
.24 - 85 grains
.25 - 100 grains
.26 - 120 grains
.27 - 120 grains
.28 - 120 grains
.30 - 150 grains

and so on and so forth. These bullet weights should encompass the bullets suitable for medium-size game. Yes, it does leave some out, but I think the benefits would outweigh any inconveniences.

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