Q:
Flipping through Heavey's "The Last Mountain Man", I read what was to me one of the most insane, or arrogant or ignorant quotes I have ever heard.
"I don't even carry a first aid kit.......My first aid kit is the undershirt I'm wearing and a roll of duct tape." The full quote is on Page 42, inset box 10. My question is, how many of you do or do not carry a first aid kit, and what is in it? Do you agree or disagree with Marty Meierotto?
Question by crm3006. Uploaded on February 27, 2010
Answers (20)
I think what the guy meant was he didnt carry a "conventional" first aid kit. His kit had uses for the t-shirt, duct tape etc... Sounded to me like he was the MacGyver type that could do brain surgery with a dull spoon...
Read the box again, Kenton. My take was, he was going to ignore any injury that did not need the addition of his undershirt and a roll of duct tape. I know the Arctic is a different environment, but no first aid? Really?
I have one in my Tackle Box (it's a backpack)and one in my hunting pack. They have a few bandaids, an ace wrap, medical tape, tylenol, a couple gauze pads, and a set of gloves.
I agree with the t-shirt and duct tape idea, as long as you have something. I am sure that it will stop the bleeding.
If I were an indian or a old time mountain man and knew how to live off the land like they did back in the old days, making my own medicine out of natural plants I could understand such a statement. I would be very supprised if there are any men alive today who can do what the indians and mountain men did in the history books. I do not have such skills so I would be foolish indeed to not have a medical kit in my survival pack.
when we go back country skiing/hiking we bring the usual stuff band aids, gauze tape ect but we also take floss and a needle for stiching
It all just depends on my activities if I bring a first aid kit or not. On my normal hunting and fishing trips no I have never packed a first aid kit. Now a trip to the north pole or deep into alaskan wilderness yes I would. gaze band-aids and tylenol and a little bit of tape isnt much of a first aid kit anyways.
I think MM has a point. Open the typical first aid kit and the stuff is only for minor cuts and scrapes and headaches. I add sutures, dental repair kit, tweezers, dental floss, Super Glue, QuikClot, surgical tubing, and a few other things. I suspect one can't imagine what it is like in those remote super cold conditions unless one experiences it. Minus 10 is the worst I've had it.
Being as I am a combat medic it would be stupid of me not to...You can fix alot of injuries i.e fracture and heavy bleeder, with 100 mph tape but you can also use a hammer to fix alot of things.
hengst-
From one holder of the CMB to another, I never go anywhere without a first aid kit. I have one rather extensive one in a large tackle box, with stethoscope, BP cuff, padded board splint, etc. You get the idea. Yes, a lot of stuff can be improvised, but a lot of things, such as aspirin, APCs, ibuprofen, Imodium AD, insect sting kit, band aids, antiseptic...All these items can solve small ills before they get to be real problems. Most of my first aid supplies are what experience has taught me I need, rather than what someone has packed into a First Aid Kit.
Roger that a tourniquette is good to have as well. So are bandanas and field dressings.
You never know when they will be needed.
I have a portable hospitial backpack from Cheaper than dirt. Since i am both a nurse and go on fequent long range hunts it is better than a first aid kit.
i think that the type kit you carry should be based on where and who you are and the conditions you operate in.
first ad is defined as the first medical treatment you get, so he may not carry a conventional first aid kit, but that doesnt mean he doesnt have materials that will suffice, if he needed to, his undershirt, and duct tape can be used in countless possible first aid situations, so it makes sense to me, especially if your trying to pack light.
I not only carry one but have had occasion to use it. Mine is pocket sized, weighs only a couple of ounces, and is well thought out with just the basics for cleaning, disinfecting, closing and covering wounds. There is an excellent thread on the Survival message board regarding that point of the article where RUSSH suggests horse wrap for those grievous injuries as opposed to the sweatshirt and duct tape approach. I question the wisdom of wearing a cotton sweatshirt in that environment. Any moisture holding cotton garment can kill you in that harsh frigid climate.
I usually don't carry one with me because of limited space and weight in my daypack. I sure wouldn't brag about it though. I have one in camp and in my truck.
If it's that bad, hit my 911 button on my "SPOT" unit, stop the bleeding, treat for shock, and keep the patient calm and warm!
Clay Cooper-
I've made two hunts this year where the minimum time for Medivac would have been 1 hour, if conditions allowed a chopper to fly. Some days they weren't favorable. I say, have a first aid kit, and know how to use what you have. Read my above posts regarding content.
crm
you know its funny because I think "who wouldn't carry a first aid kit". But then I think back to the last three fishing trips and the last camping trip, and you know what? I didnt have a first aid kit on any of them.
I think he meant that if a band aid and Neosporin was your idea of survival, maybe you shouldn't be out there where he goes.
well i am an EMT, so yes i carry a kit with me every where i go. i carry bandaids, 4x4 pads, 2rolls of 3" kling, asprin, nitro, and DUCT TAPE(it makes a damn good watertight bandaid) and some toung depressors, and this is from years of experince not only in emergancy medicen but as a boy scout too. if your smart you carry a kit and some form of comunication wiht the world to get help.
Recently,I read "The Tiger" by John Vailant about a Siberian tiger that started man killing and the efforts to stop it.
The leader of the Russian "game wardens" for lack of a better term,was slashed by the tiger while killing it and they used a technique developed by the Red Army in Afghanistan because they didn't have thread in their first aid kits for the combat medics to use.
They took strips of metal from a tin can and made clamps to close the wounds with pliers applying the pressure.
The book says that the guy never saw a doctor and two weeks later,pulled the field expedient clamps out himself with just a little vodka for pain relief.
Tough as he may be,I'll prefer to have a doctor knock me out and put in staples and stitches and let them stay in a while longer.
Well, it all depends on what you know. Having a kit, bells and whistles are optional, won't do you a great deal of good if you don't know how to use it. Creative thinking will only get you so far. Educating yourself and training will go much farther and help you to reasonably think outside the box when those situation arise that your kit or your training didn't contemplate. That said, yes I carry a kit. I also take a medical history of every member in my group ,myself included, and keep them in my kit. (It can be very helpful when they can't answer your questions or you want to be able to tell the responding rescuers that they may want to not give them a medication the patient is allergic to) What I carry is geared towards an objective assessment of what I'm likely to encounter and what I can manage in the field and what I can reasonably and legally do to manage someone until evacuation is possible. I could bring everything I'm trained to use but I'd need a pack mule or several sherpas to carry it and a good lawyer if I used it outside of my job. First Aid training and certification is good, EMT, WEMT is better, EMT-P will give you the most expansive training (as far as pre-hospital care is concerned) but you will likely be limited in terms of what advanced care you can provide or the skills you can use off the job. If you have no training or the desire and self discipline to aquire it, well then you might very well find a sweaty t-shirt and a roll of duct tape more than adequate for any medical or traumatic emergency you may face.
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Read the box again, Kenton. My take was, he was going to ignore any injury that did not need the addition of his undershirt and a roll of duct tape. I know the Arctic is a different environment, but no first aid? Really?
I think what the guy meant was he didnt carry a "conventional" first aid kit. His kit had uses for the t-shirt, duct tape etc... Sounded to me like he was the MacGyver type that could do brain surgery with a dull spoon...
I have one in my Tackle Box (it's a backpack)and one in my hunting pack. They have a few bandaids, an ace wrap, medical tape, tylenol, a couple gauze pads, and a set of gloves.
I agree with the t-shirt and duct tape idea, as long as you have something. I am sure that it will stop the bleeding.
when we go back country skiing/hiking we bring the usual stuff band aids, gauze tape ect but we also take floss and a needle for stiching
It all just depends on my activities if I bring a first aid kit or not. On my normal hunting and fishing trips no I have never packed a first aid kit. Now a trip to the north pole or deep into alaskan wilderness yes I would. gaze band-aids and tylenol and a little bit of tape isnt much of a first aid kit anyways.
I think MM has a point. Open the typical first aid kit and the stuff is only for minor cuts and scrapes and headaches. I add sutures, dental repair kit, tweezers, dental floss, Super Glue, QuikClot, surgical tubing, and a few other things. I suspect one can't imagine what it is like in those remote super cold conditions unless one experiences it. Minus 10 is the worst I've had it.
Being as I am a combat medic it would be stupid of me not to...You can fix alot of injuries i.e fracture and heavy bleeder, with 100 mph tape but you can also use a hammer to fix alot of things.
hengst-
From one holder of the CMB to another, I never go anywhere without a first aid kit. I have one rather extensive one in a large tackle box, with stethoscope, BP cuff, padded board splint, etc. You get the idea. Yes, a lot of stuff can be improvised, but a lot of things, such as aspirin, APCs, ibuprofen, Imodium AD, insect sting kit, band aids, antiseptic...All these items can solve small ills before they get to be real problems. Most of my first aid supplies are what experience has taught me I need, rather than what someone has packed into a First Aid Kit.
I have a portable hospitial backpack from Cheaper than dirt. Since i am both a nurse and go on fequent long range hunts it is better than a first aid kit.
i think that the type kit you carry should be based on where and who you are and the conditions you operate in.
If I were an indian or a old time mountain man and knew how to live off the land like they did back in the old days, making my own medicine out of natural plants I could understand such a statement. I would be very supprised if there are any men alive today who can do what the indians and mountain men did in the history books. I do not have such skills so I would be foolish indeed to not have a medical kit in my survival pack.
Roger that a tourniquette is good to have as well. So are bandanas and field dressings.
You never know when they will be needed.
I not only carry one but have had occasion to use it. Mine is pocket sized, weighs only a couple of ounces, and is well thought out with just the basics for cleaning, disinfecting, closing and covering wounds. There is an excellent thread on the Survival message board regarding that point of the article where RUSSH suggests horse wrap for those grievous injuries as opposed to the sweatshirt and duct tape approach. I question the wisdom of wearing a cotton sweatshirt in that environment. Any moisture holding cotton garment can kill you in that harsh frigid climate.
I usually don't carry one with me because of limited space and weight in my daypack. I sure wouldn't brag about it though. I have one in camp and in my truck.
Clay Cooper-
I've made two hunts this year where the minimum time for Medivac would have been 1 hour, if conditions allowed a chopper to fly. Some days they weren't favorable. I say, have a first aid kit, and know how to use what you have. Read my above posts regarding content.
crm
I think he meant that if a band aid and Neosporin was your idea of survival, maybe you shouldn't be out there where he goes.
well i am an EMT, so yes i carry a kit with me every where i go. i carry bandaids, 4x4 pads, 2rolls of 3" kling, asprin, nitro, and DUCT TAPE(it makes a damn good watertight bandaid) and some toung depressors, and this is from years of experince not only in emergancy medicen but as a boy scout too. if your smart you carry a kit and some form of comunication wiht the world to get help.
first ad is defined as the first medical treatment you get, so he may not carry a conventional first aid kit, but that doesnt mean he doesnt have materials that will suffice, if he needed to, his undershirt, and duct tape can be used in countless possible first aid situations, so it makes sense to me, especially if your trying to pack light.
If it's that bad, hit my 911 button on my "SPOT" unit, stop the bleeding, treat for shock, and keep the patient calm and warm!
you know its funny because I think "who wouldn't carry a first aid kit". But then I think back to the last three fishing trips and the last camping trip, and you know what? I didnt have a first aid kit on any of them.
Recently,I read "The Tiger" by John Vailant about a Siberian tiger that started man killing and the efforts to stop it.
The leader of the Russian "game wardens" for lack of a better term,was slashed by the tiger while killing it and they used a technique developed by the Red Army in Afghanistan because they didn't have thread in their first aid kits for the combat medics to use.
They took strips of metal from a tin can and made clamps to close the wounds with pliers applying the pressure.
The book says that the guy never saw a doctor and two weeks later,pulled the field expedient clamps out himself with just a little vodka for pain relief.
Tough as he may be,I'll prefer to have a doctor knock me out and put in staples and stitches and let them stay in a while longer.
Well, it all depends on what you know. Having a kit, bells and whistles are optional, won't do you a great deal of good if you don't know how to use it. Creative thinking will only get you so far. Educating yourself and training will go much farther and help you to reasonably think outside the box when those situation arise that your kit or your training didn't contemplate. That said, yes I carry a kit. I also take a medical history of every member in my group ,myself included, and keep them in my kit. (It can be very helpful when they can't answer your questions or you want to be able to tell the responding rescuers that they may want to not give them a medication the patient is allergic to) What I carry is geared towards an objective assessment of what I'm likely to encounter and what I can manage in the field and what I can reasonably and legally do to manage someone until evacuation is possible. I could bring everything I'm trained to use but I'd need a pack mule or several sherpas to carry it and a good lawyer if I used it outside of my job. First Aid training and certification is good, EMT, WEMT is better, EMT-P will give you the most expansive training (as far as pre-hospital care is concerned) but you will likely be limited in terms of what advanced care you can provide or the skills you can use off the job. If you have no training or the desire and self discipline to aquire it, well then you might very well find a sweaty t-shirt and a roll of duct tape more than adequate for any medical or traumatic emergency you may face.
Post an Answer