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Tom McIntyre Explains His Picks for our 2009 Hunting and Fishing Heroes and Villians Face-Off
When I named Rush Limbaugh hunting and fishing’s Villain of the Year in the current issue of Field & Stream (December 2009-January 2010), some readers immediately fired back at the magazine—and me—with angry letters. Some wanted their subscriptions canceled. Some accused me of being a Democrat and a Communist. Some alluded to a physical impossibility involving where they believed my head resided. Some were even unpleasant.
As I explained in the story, Mr. Limbaugh received his honor for having produced two public service announcements in April on behalf of the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS). What was disturbing about this was that we have come to expect support for anti-hunting groups when it comes from the usual suspects: teen movie stars or vegan leftwing whackjobs. But Mr. Limbaugh is someone whom we might have assumed knew better than to provide aid and comfort to the likes of HSUS.
In one of the PSAs, Mr. Limbaugh spoke of his vast affection for the “treasure” that is his little cat Punkin, promising ominously that if anyone ever did harm to her, “they would be punished” by him personally. He went on to claim, though, that the HSUS was there to help other animals not under his direct protection and to praise it as an “ally” of law enforcement in the “animal realm” when it came to the crime of dog fighting. (Never mind that the manager of the HSUS’s “animal fighting campaign” has been reported by The New York Times as having been convicted of animal-rights vandalism and as describing himself as a “graduate” of the Animal Liberation Front, which is identified by the FBI as a terrorist group.) In the PSA, Mr. Limbaugh also managed to repeat the HSUS’s sinister and dubious statistics about dog breeders being known associates of dog fighters and other violent lawbreakers—a ploy the HSUS uses in a continuing crusade to prohibit the breeding of all pets. Don’t forget to spay and neuter, folks!
PSA number two was, if anything, only weirder. Mr. Limbaugh took note of what he termed a “new alliance forming out there” that is a “positive one for the sake of America’s traditional values.” This alliance is based, according to Mr. Limbaugh, on a “new faith outreach program” instigated by the HSUS that, according to the HSUS, “seeks to engage people and institutions of faith with animal protection issues.” (Forgive the cynic in me for sensing more than a whiff of sanctimonious hypocrisy on the part of the HSUS.)
In a way, it might be understandable that some Field & Stream readers—those who revere Mr. Limbaugh as a conservative role model, radio legend, irreverent slayer of sacred cows, and American patriot—would be outraged to see him attacked or even questioned on any grounds. On the other hand, from the viewpoint of dedicated hunters and anglers, it is utterly incomprehensible to believe that it’s no big deal for Mr. Limbaugh to lend his considerable support to the HSUS, or that the HSUS isn’t such a bad organization and that it even does some genuine good for animals. This is what is commonly referred to as “magical thinking.”
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Comments (509)
You just don't get it. Gun owners have friends and enemies. In the world of politics, Mr. Limbaugh has led the charge in championing our rights. Without his work, there would probably be no conservative talk radio and possibly not even a conservative movement. Mr. Limbaugh gave voice to the millions of conservatives in this country and in turn they have had a chance to voice their own concerns about a government out of control.
Your publication couldn’t find the guts to denounce Barak Obama in the last election as the vehement anti-gunner that he is. Now you name Rush Limbaugh as the “Villain of year”. My subscription ran out in October and I won’t be subscribing again unless and until this slur has been retracted. You have your right to your opinion and I have the right to stop supporting you.
I was waiting for your explanation for making Rush villain of the year and it sounds more like back tracking than a convincing argument. Don't try to tell me this isn't a political or personal attack on Mr. Limbaugh, you insult your reader's intelligences by doing so. If the HSUS is so dangerous make them the villain not a consistent supporter of sportsmen. My subscription is up this month and I will not be renewing.
I will renew my subscription just as I have for the last 15 yrs. Way to go Tom.
I for one applaud your stance - the national HSUS organization is a radical anti-hunting organization that "hides in plain site" and gets alot of misdirected donations from people who think they are giving money to a local humane society group to help spay and neuter stray dogs and cats. Rush Limbaugh has only helped them foster this misunderstanding.
Field and Stream is, after all, a hunting and fishing magazine.
I agree that Rush isn't currently helping our cause, but I kept hoping that Salazar would beat him out. I feel like the good that Salazar is capable of doing is far more important to sportsman than Rush endorsing the HSUS. I'm glad we have a Secretary of the Interior that is being so active in a positive way.
Limbaugh donated $50K in 1999 to PETA in order to make the Pretenders (My City Was Gone - opening music bed) go away. Ten year deal...Now HSUS. Serious esteem problems when you think the openiing music of each hour makes your show. Or, you are a complete phony and hypocrite. Reagan principals? Individual rights? The all knowing, all seeing, all phony hypocrite takes you for granted. Appreciate his politics and show if you want to but don't be like the liberals he (rightfully) criticizes and be in denial.
For what its worth, I carried his show on a radio station I owned when he donated the money to PETA.
Rush, conservatives, and the GOP could all be called enemies of sportsman simply for their consistently wrong stances on public land conservation and pollution controls as far as fish and wildlife goes. The three of them dutifully holler the "sky is falling!" every election cycle when it comes to gun control to keep their base and coffers (especially the NRA) fired up, when in fact taking hunters guns away is far off the radar of Obama and most liberals.
HSUS is not only the biggest enemy of sportsmen-- it is opposed to the owning and breeding of domestic animals, period. I have been fighting mandatory spay neuter amendments backed by them for years, in California and New Mexico. Limbaugh either is ignorant, cynical, bought and paid for, or has lost his mind. Any sportsman who does not fight HSUS at every opportunity is in denial or suicidal.
HSUS is not only the biggest enemy of sportsmen-- it is opposed to the owning and breeding of domestic animals, period. I have been fighting mandatory spay neuter amendments backed by them for years, in California and New Mexico. Limbaugh either is ignorant, cynical, bought and paid for, or has lost his mind. Any sportsman who does not fight HSUS at every opportunity is in denial or suicidal.
I would agree that Rush is no hero, but beating out the likes of Obama, Bloomberg, Newkirk and Schwarzenegger is a little off. Rush talks about things we don't agree with and may donate money to groups that hassle us, but that is all he is....TALK. All these other people are actively doing something against us, taking our rights away and being morons. Not just hurting our ears as Rush does, hurting our sport. Actions weigh more in my mind than words, just my opinion, I think that everybody in the red are losers (except glenn beck because I think he is a nice guy, not because of some of his views)
this is foolish. this whole damn thing.
Oh, and it is also very humorous that you would not renew a subscription to a magazine that you have clearly enjoyed for years due to one of the contributors attaching a meaningless antagonistic title to a guy that you happen to listen to on the radio. Quite a statement that you are making. It says more about you than it does F&S.
No matter what one's personal political convictions, the notion that espousing views somewhere to the right of center automatically makes any individual or organization a friend to sportsmen represents yet another example of "magical thinking". Bowhunters, for example, should remember that the NRA has supported the introduction of firearms into bow seasons, and the Congressional Sportsman's Caucus has spent more time shilling for development interests than it has standing up for wildlife and habitat. No matter who you're buying from, you better read the fine print. Rush Limbaugh's support of the HSUS is an unqualified insult to all of us, and Tom deserves all due credit for bringing it to light.
I joined this site to discuss hunting and fishing, NOT POLITICS! Leave it to the NRA and other organizations, I just want tips for bagging bucks and catching bass!
I agree with above "wvboy". here's where to go to talk politics. It tells you who is telling the truth.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/
By the way, Rush is a national embarrassment.
For a good listen go to http://www.scifirstforhunters.org/static/radio/
and listen to Mr. McIntyre discuss his "The Animal Right" column. Those who oppose and support those who oppose hunting might surpise you.
Naming someone villain of the year who indirectly attacks hunting and fishing through supporting a animal humane organization is absurd. Am I anti-hunting because I bought a dog at their shelter and gave them money then? With all the direct attacks on our heritage doing something like this does far more harm in alienating people. Especially misguided pet lovers like Mr. Limbaugh who have no ax to grind with us, or didn't till now.
That's the problem Hobob - most people think giving money to the HSUS is the same thing as giving money to their local humane shelter - its not.
From the HSUS website:
"By long-standing tradition, local humane societies are independent entities. Each shelter has its own policies, governance, and priorities."
Most local humane societies are not extremist anti-hunting organizations - the HSUS is - but doesn't advertise it too loudly because it might reduce donations.
One example from the HSUS website:
"In a letter to Westchester County, N.Y., Executive Andrew Spano, The Humane Society of the United States voiced disappointment over plans to allow bow-hunting of deer in two county parks beginning Saturday. The county executive approved the hunting plan based on the recommendation of the county's Deer Task Force — a recommendation with which The HSUS sharply disagreed."
A quote from HSUS's Wildlife Abuse Campaign website:
"The HSUS's Wildlife Abuse Campaign promotes the humane treatment of wildlife by educating the public and lawmakers on the cruelty inherent in sport hunting and targeting the most reprehensible practices."
In other words, the HSUS wants to outlaw all hunting but they are going to be selective and only target a few practices right now because they know they don't have support to outlaw all hunting at this time.
The one thing that Rush isn't is a man involved with the physical environment beyond what he can see and touch. His political observations involving Washington and state governments is mostly spot on. In terms of his cat he feels. He has said many times that liberals feel and don't think. Well, Rush has just proved his point. We know more about fish & game, and every other outdoor pursuit than Rush does.
He is not the "Villain of the Year". He's ignorant, as is a significant majority of people who can tolerate living in NYC for any period of time. F&S is once again showing their colors on political issues. I for one have not seen Rush's indeed embarrassing promo's. I doubt he understands how stupid he looks and sounds.
OK now that you've explained Rush, explain Obama being a hero for going fishing once.I also don't see how Glenn Beck is a villain for criticizing TR.This whole piece was political and anyone that doesn't see that must have their head in the sand.
Talk about stirring up a hornets nest, the ditto heads are on the warpath now that you have "attacked" their leader. Let them cancel their subscriptions, you dont need them. They are in the minority and they cant stand that.
Well I think that the fact that our resident hippie PETA member SS3 is defending an extremely conservative radio host like him is indication enough that he's doing something wrong.
That being said I think people need to relax with the political talk. This is a hunting and fishing magazine and nothing more. Rush gave money to and did promo's for an organization that opposes hunting so field and stream called him on it, end of story.
I've listened to Rush a lot. Yes, he's supported NRA and our rights. It's not one of his big issues, however. Anyone who suggests otherwise is just ignorant. HSUS IS NOT a humane organization. It is a radical animal rights group that wants to end hunting. Has nothing to do with your local shelter. It was a stupid thing for Rush to do those PSAs, unless he really is a closet animal rights guy. And let me tell you, those that are believers are really whacked out, and you'd be surprised to find out who they all are. I still listen to Rush sometimes, and I still read F&S. Why is it that hunters have to all agree on everything 100%? Like the bowhunters not liking the gun hunters. We need to stick together folks. Against HSUS and others like them.
"punished by him personally"? What's he gonna do? Steal their prescriptions? Sit on them?
Thomas McIntyre, tell me something. Why is it nobody at Field and Stream has the backbone to ask the following question
What Government Entity is responsible for your personal protection?
Now duck, run and hide on this one, LMAO!
You must ave to much time on your hands and lack the resourcefulness to really come up with something!
Try base jumping off the New York Stock Exchange Building or something. go do something nobody else hasn't done. Attacking Rush is like joining the rest who have done it and you'll find them all standing in the unemployment line with the rest of the clowns!
By the way,
Merry Christmas!
If you don't like it, hope your PC burst into flames for receiving this :)
What will people do to try to get attention nowadays!
YAA"BUDDY!
HERE"S YOUR SIGN!
WOW Thomas McIntyre, trying to get celebrity status!
Rush, a blowhard, bigot, drug-addict, hypocrite, chicken-hawk, egotistical jack....
IowaGuy you freeloader!
Subject: Conservatives/Liberals and who’s the true Modern Hunters Wimps?
Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic
hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the
summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter.
The two most important events in all of history were the invention of
beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer.
These were the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:
1. Liberals; and
2. Conservatives
Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the
beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can
were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around
waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the
brewery. That's how villages were formed.
Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at
night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what
is known as the Conservative movement.
Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live
off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly B-B-Q's and doing
the sewing, fetching, and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the Liberal movement.
Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women.
The rest became known as girlie-men.
Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of
cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the concept of
Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that conservatives provided.
Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest,
most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are
symbolized by the jackass.
Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer
white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like
their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare.
Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have
higher testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers,
personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group
therapists are liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't fair to make the pitcher also bat.
Conservatives drink domestic beer. They eat red meat and still
provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo
cowboys, Polymer Science PhDs, lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, Physicists, police officers, corporate executives, athletes, Marines, and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living.
Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers
and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans
are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals
remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America . They
crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of
trying to get more for nothing.
Here ends today's lesson in world history: It should be noted that a
Liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to the above
before forwarding it. A Conservative will simply laugh and be so
convinced of the absolute truth of this history that it will be
forwarded immediately to other true believers and to more liberals
just to piss them off.
So here’s the proof, if you’re a Liberal then the answer is yes, you’re a Modern Hunting Wimp!
You missed the mark on this one Tom & Field and Stream. Better luck next time.
This all reminds me of the attack on Sarah Palin
THE TRUTH - LIBERAL WOMEN ARE JEALOUS OF SARAH PALIN
Posted by Mike Silverman on Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:34:14 AM
The more I ponder the vitriol and venom that liberal women are spewing like acid at Sarah Palin, the more I have boiled it down to something less complicated than ideology from them. Sarah Palin is what they wish they could be. These liberal ladies want to have the cheers and throngs of full throated support that Sarah has, and they hate the fact that Sarah is an attractive Republican woman. She's strong, confident, Conservative, happy with her life, beautiful and admired by millions. The liberal female pundits, radical feminists and hollywood kooks who have cultivated thier narrow political audiences are bewildered and jealous over this. Sure there's some ideology mixed in, but I think it's used more as a cover for the seething jealousy of her popularity. To these liberal ladies, "they" are supposed to be the pinnacle of popularity. They have prostituted themsleves to the ideology of a fringe viewpoint , and as a result they get "in" to the elite gatherings of social snobbery that represent that radical view of the country. But , do they really believe the lunacy of the liberalism they spew, or are they towing the line so that they can keep that "in" crowd venue with the mopy miserable depressed liberals who wring thier hands at the unfairness of life, financial success, and carbon-dioxide? I think they secretly wish they could "be" Sarah Palin, because Sarah has not had to go "phony" and be something that "others" want her to be in order to "fit in" with the super egos of radical beligerants. She's not one of them. Sarah doesn't care to rub shoulders with the illuminati of liberal inner circles. It doesn't make sense to the liberal mindset. In thier world view there are not supposed to be "normal" people in this country. Or, at least the "normal" people are supposed to be the "fringe" nutcases not the rallying point of the great majority. But the rest of us know why Sarah is popular. Precisely because she represents the core values we cherish most.
- Mike Silverman, Milford MA
By the way Thomas McIntyre, your Village called and said they don’t want their idiot back!
NICE TRY!
WOW, I listen to him all the time. And one day I heard an add for the HSUS. I thought this has to be the station just getting money, not Rush him self. Just when you think you have someone on your side that is powerfull this crap happens. So let me get this right, It does n't matter were you stand on an issue as long as you get paid. Please don't tell me that Sean Hannity is running for president of P.E.T.A..
Clay Cooper, nothing you said has anything to do with the issue at hand. The fact that Rush Limbaugh is a conservative does not change the fact that he donated money to an anti-hunting organization.
Frankly, I think Rush was duped by HSUS --- heck, most of the general public thinks they are good guys that run animal shelters and actually help real animals, and he probably did too. He took the links to the HSUS PSA's off his website darn fast, after his public educated him. I'm sure that contractually he couldn't get those two HSUS PSAs stopped with HSUS. I bet he's learned a lot, though, as many of his listeners educated him. Sadly, he hasn't publically disowned the group - .
Susquehanna
You’re absolutely right, it happens all the time!
As for those like Mark J with their OFF WITH THEIR HEADS mentality that’s where the problem is.
As for Thomas McIntyre, he could have used his energy on something better. Of course, he probably felt the urge to do this knee jerk reaction along with the Tiger Woods love and hate feast.
I wonder who he is trying to impress?
Susquehanna makes a better case of what does happen when someone like Rush gets duped into something. As for Thomas McIntyre, Corporation like Volkswagen should be checked out and who they support.
Yes, Rush was a villain when he ran those ads. No, that didn't make him worse than Bloomberg or Newkirk! McIntyre, you went into a very in-depth explanation about HSUS and Rush Limbaugh. Where's the in-depth explanation about how this is all worse than Newkirk's PETA or Bloomberg's anti-gun campaign?
I'm still waiting on an explanation for Obama being a hero.
This is from an article on examiner.com about Cass Sunstein Obama's regulatory czar.
"Professor Sunstein has stated in the past that all hunting should be eliminated by regulation. This is extremely dangerous to hunters as this is one of the most powerful positions in the White House, controlling all kinds of regulations that will directly affect hunting. At a Harvard University conference, he said “We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn’t a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It’s time now.” Even though he seems to have left the door open to some hunting for sustenance in that statement, his other beliefs on animal rights preclude nearly all animal use. That is an extreme viewpoint not shared by most Americans."
I guess appointing people like this to very powerful positions is balanced out by the fact that Obama went fishing.
Please explain!
Never really cared for Rush. Now I really don't care for him. Partially because he did ad's for HSUS, but mostly because he's a cat person.
Clay,
Enough with the immature personal attacks of other posters already. Personal attacks are the bastion of people that can't win on the issues.
And I'll tell you why Limbaugh's actions were worse than Newkirks: Everybody knows Newkirk is a nutcase. Newkirk is doing the same thing she's always done, take outlandish stances to get her group donations and attention, and the same group of whackos continues to support her.
A lot of reasonable people listen to Limbaugh and were likely influenced by his endorsement. I wonder how much money from new donors the HSUS recieved as a result of his endorsement?
P.S. You liberal vs. conservative caveman story grows tired. Time for some new material.
Frankly, I think Rush was duped by HSUS
Don't let Rush see this. He never gets duped. NEVER!
"Frankly, I think Rush was duped by HSUS --- heck, most of the general public thinks they are good guys that run animal shelters and actually help real animals, and he probably did too."
So now we now that we are all a lot smarter than Rush or the general public.
"A lot of reasonable people listen to Limbaugh and were likely influenced by his endorsement."
How reasonable or intelligent can they be if they get their ideas from a radio host? Can they not think for themselves or see that the HSUS is bad news? Are they blindly for it because drugs boy said they should be?
Shane,
Personally, I think Rush is a self-serving blow-hard who has found that getting people riled up with ridiculous positions and statements makes him a lot of money. I think he is a drug abuser, a liar and a hypocrite.
With that said, I know a lot of pretty smart people that do listen to him, and I think he may very well be the most influential republican in the country at the moment.
Bob81
It's interesting the one who calls names like drug abuser, a liar and a hypocrite are the ones who have done it and are guilty of it too.
Hey stick500- Please don't take this the wrong way, I am only telling you what I believe. First, I'll bet you are a liberal sportsman that votes democratic because you believe " taking hunters guns away is far off the radar of Obama and most liberals." Well I hate to tell you that you are believing exactly what the anti-gunners want you to believe. You won't be a fighting threat but a voting ally. JUST WHAT THEY WANT. Just take a look at all the anti-gunners ,the huge majority are the liberals, including obama, Biden, Pelosi, Reed,Clinton, Eric Holder (Our attorney general- who said once "the second amendment should be abolished.") and all the rest of them. They do have our guns on their radar, but it takes time and they have lots of it. Why do you think that people like George Sorros funded Obamas' campaign, just like he did for John Kerry when he ran against Bush in 2004. Also, the U.N. has our guns on their radar screen. Second, I'll bet you watch your main stream nightly news on ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN, or one of the other liberal news network. Now third, when you said That "Rush, conservaties, and the GOP dutifully holler the sky is falling every election cycle when it comes to gun control to keep their base and coffers (especially the NRA) fired up." That comment of "holler the sky is falling" sounds like a liberal comment. The only reason why they talk about the gun issue to get the gun owners to vote the anti-gunners out. There is over 70 million gun owners in this country and if every one of them voted to keep their guns, we wouldn't have any anti-gunners in government. NOW that would be a perfect world, no anti-gunners running our country. When I vote, I look at the persons record and Obama and his administration is the most anti-gun administration we have ever had. Sorry about this rant but it irrates me to no end when I hear people that are sportsmen saying stuff like you did. I wasn't knocking you, just trying to set you straight.
Clay,
Are you accusing me of lying, of abusing drugs and being hypocritical?
Rush Limbaugh is a drug addicted moron who spews nonsense to other morons. His rhetoric is ridiculous. As a fervent outdoorsman I believe his support of the HSUS is extremely detrimental to our hunting heritage as well as our way of life. Rush is not an outdoorsman, nor will he ever be. As usual he is misinformed on what he is preaching.
Ok, Rush Limbaugh on the villain side of the aisle, I understand. The man made PSA's on behalf of one of the most vehement haters of wildlife in America. But Rush, Villain of the Year?? What??!? When there are whackjobs like Ingrid Newkirk and Hillary Clinton out there? I love Field and Stream, but I think they may have missed the mark on this one.
Bob81
Am I accusing you of lying, of abusing drugs and being hypocritical?
Your shallow minded Bob!
As for the drugs, I work in the medical field and if the person isn't closely monitored by a Physician specializing in pain management Hydrocodone and Oxycodone can be easily abused in other words "PAIN OVER MIND"!
As for Rush lying, I find he will sidestep questions like why we lost Vietnam and how the same thing is happening now. Ofd course, One needs to get their nose out of their armpit to understand the answer!
As for Rush you say is a hypocrite, depends on ones point of view and how they understand the subject. It's like reading the Bible, some will take a line out of it such as ALL THINGS ARE WHITE like the Arion Nation and the "KKK" does. You must read several chapters before and after to understand the real meaning of that phrase. Of course those like Tom McIntyre will pick one thing out the entire mix and run with it.
One thing for sure, of all the things Rush has done has been only against himself, VICTIMLESS!
Some want to just throw Rush under the buss, whats next throw Tiger Woods too!
Not everyone is perfect!
2 Spring times ago, I had a Sierra Club Member politely approach me while I was working in my garage. She told me how the Sierra Club has changed and realized Hunters hold the same point of view as theirs. She tried her best to dupe me to join. Now if I would have bought the story and if I would have joined or made a contribution, there are those who will be jumping up and down like a pack of Baboons!
Key word DUPED!
All the literature was really compelling and I came damn close in joining
One thing for sure, Field and Stream has been taken out of my Business for the PC bull snit like Tom McIntyre and what they did to Sir Jim Zumbo.
The biggest problem I have with Rush is not his addiction per se, it's that he has built a very lucrative career on being critical of others. He has called for drug abusers to essentially be locked up with the key thrown away, while he himself had an addiction. (See my accusation of hypocrisy).
However. let's not forget his other "little" drug issue when he was caught entering the country with a certain other "enhancement drug" he had no prescription for, and apparently "doctor-shopped to obtain" (See my accusation of lying). Don't tell me he was addicted to that too!
If you think my definition of hypocrisy, which I have pulled from the Webster dictionary (an authority on such things as definitions), falls short, please correct me:
1. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc., contrary to one's real character or actual behaviour, esp the pretence of virtue and piety
2. an act or instance of this
Finally, I confess that I once thought the HSUS was a much more benign organization than it is. I, however, did not do public service announcements for them, my career isn't based upon being informed on such things as lobbying groups, and if I had made that mistake, I would have apologized and publicly denounced them after I realized my error.
Field and stream wins "douche of the year" for this pick.
Tom, you're a bit off the mark. Who promotes individual rights and responsibility/accountability more than Rush?
Whatever.
Rush didn't get picked for this award becuase his stance on drug use, he didn't get picked for this award because of his consistency (or inconsistency) in behavior and words, and he didn't get picked for his political affiliation.
Rush got picked because (knowingly or not) as one of the most influential political figures in the country, he made multiple endorsements for an anti-hunting organization, and when he was informed of such, he didn't admit he was wrong and didn't issue a retraction or an indictment of the HSUS.
smutans I second that!
Field and stream wins "douche of the year" for this pick!
As for BOOB81 Definitely intellectually challenged, self centered and relishes in other peoples illnesses!
Ya'know BOOB, I tell'ya some of the greatest people I know had a drinking and or drug problem. As for Rush and the surgery he had, getting off those meds and working is almost impossible. Fortunately he got caught in time and received help and is now drug free. It doesn't matter who you are, it happens and the #1 group of people are shunned not getting the help they deserve, The Veterans of the United States!I tell'ya one more thing their PC RAMBO, I guarantee you wouldn't say that to my face!That's right, don't let the real truth get in the way of a good lie for a good laugh, but as for you, we will remember when it will happen to you Mister!The difference is between you and I, you'll me face down in the gutter of life and I'll be reaching down to you picking you up and giving you the coat off my back!
Your pathetic BOOB!
I detect a bar room fight here, LMAO!
Lets see how much we can get bob81 wound up!
Sand Bagger,
Please see my earlier comment:
"The biggest problem I have with Rush is not his addiction per se, it's that he has built a very lucrative career on being critical of others. He has called for drug abusers to essentially be locked up with the key thrown away, while he himself had an addiction. (See my accusation of hypocrisy)."
To me (and I should know, since I wrote it), it looks like I might actually be arguing for understanding in regards to people suffering from drug addiction! My complaint is more against Rush's hypocritical send up of such people!!
As far as getting caught with drugs he didn't have a prescription for to make his "little willie" stand up, ya caught me! I found that pretty d_mn funny!
Clay,
I'm generally a pretty even-keeled person, and reading anonymous comments on a website is one of the absolute last things that is going to get me fired up.
Besides, at the end of the day when all our sniping and arguing is done, Rush Limbaugh is still Field & Stream's "Villain of the Year", and that just makes me smile ear-to-ear. :)
Greatest and drinking problem or drugs don't go together in my world...
Hey petalover, the one who takes animals out of shelters to stage a killing to make it look like someone else done it.
Why doesn't PETA pick on me!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bob81,
The drug abusers Rush is referring to is the ones giving the drugs to our kids. The drug addiction he had, I don’t blame him personally, I blame the Doctor! I worked as assistant Administrator for a “Pain Management Doctor” and I’ve seen firsthand how these drugs can be “OVER USED and OVER PRECRIBED” and watch individuals come into the clinic Doctor shopping. During this time, I worked part time as a XRAY Repair tech and traveling around the State servicing equipment, I’ve ran into the same people seeking drugs and yes, I did whisper into the Administrator ear to inform them. The bottom line Sir Bob, for what I do know, I cannot hammer Rush for the addiction, he is human to and as with anyone else, is just as prone as you and I are and there isn’t any over the counter pain relievers safe enough for some of the types of pain for long term use.
As for the support for the ant hunting crowds, I’m sure he meant well at the time. I don’t support the Red Cross because they don’t support the Boy Scouts, does that make me evil too? If something would happen, yes I would gear up and assist!
For Rush hammering people, I have listened enough to know, he doesn’t cut everyone slack. Who do I like on the Radio the most, Neal Boortz, Glenn Beck and trusted Sir Michael Savage! For Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, when it comes to exposing the real problem with our War, I’ve been told by their call screener what I have to say is cannot be said, but for Sir Michael Savage? LOOK OUT! He took my call gladly, not only he allowed me to say what I wanted to say, “HE DROVE IT HOME AND SHOVED IT DOWN THEIR THROATS!”
BOB81 when my wonderful Wife and I feel on the verge of getting into a fight, we stop and look at each other and I’ll say it to you, HI!!, HOW ARE YOU!!!
73’sw Sir Bob81 and by the way, I think you and Mike the king of Sand Baggers make good book ends, LOL!
I hate typing on laptops!
As a teenager, all I can say is that it's pretty funny watching grown men fight and argue over Rush Limbaugh. (I also think it's hilarious when they try to be cool and and start typing LOL everywhere, but maybe I'm just easily amused.) =D
Agreed dukkillr- i think its funny that they find an argument for defending someone they were just bashing a minute before. i laugh all the way down the page you guys really get riled up by this stuff.
...
im 19 and in a college sociology class right know and my professor explained it pretty easy rush thrives on his judgements of people and the hell in a hand basket scare tactic many politicians use.
I personally think its even more hilarious that he is tied to PETA, man they are a big cult of opinionated morons
Clay if you are so disgusted with F&S that you have "taken them out of your business" I must ask Why do you still post here? If you are angry with F&S isn't it kind of childish to keep posting the same old bits of propaganda that we have all suffered faar too many repititions already?
Rush Limburger stinks worse than the cheese. He is no kinds of sportsperson, I doubt he could walk a mile on level ground. He is a well paid shill for Rupert Murdock, who I do not think is even a citizen (he's Aussie). Rush not only doesn't walk his talk he can hardly even waddle his talk. No wonder he abuses oxy. He is such an unattractive turd that any woman could only be attracted to the money he gets for being today's Joseph Goebbels. No wonder he needs Viagra! I'd think a girl might need Spanish Fly to get off with him (assuming one wasn't crushed). But what woman would want to partner such an unfaithful person (except for a shot at the money) who would divorce his dying wife in his eagerness to hump something new. All he would have had to do was wait, and after a suitable mourning period he could have gone a courting with no bad smell. I'm certain his dead ex-wife haunts him nightly for being such a dastard. That he likes his cat does not endear him to me. I have my own cat, cats are nearly infinately recyclable anyway...
Sooo Rush Limburger, Villian of the Year! Good call, especially when one considers that villian originally referred to a serf or a peasant feudally bound to the land of his master,a thrall or slave.
Rush is Rupert Murdock's thrall and that in French means villian. Never trust a single toxic word from his repulsive quivering lips.
Limbaugh proved a long time ago that he is in show business to make as much money as possible. No one should be surprised that he sold his services so cheaply. Although he is sometimes a whacky funny entertainer, he is also a pathological liar. Furthermore, he has no respect for our elected government officials and is insidiously enhancing his career by playing on the fears of gun owners and bible thumpers.
My dislike for Rush Limbaugh has nothing to do with this PSA. Great pick, but in my opinion for the wrong reason. This was the least of his trangressions.
I think this is a little overdrawn. Everyone says that HSUS is "hiding in plain site" so for all we know they could have payed rush to do those PSA's and told him they have left wing hunting views. And as for him beating out the president of PETA I dont think thats right. Thats an organization that directly talks about banning hunting they should be the villian in everyone's eyes
You can't find anyone better than Limbaugh? Come on you have to be kidding!
Next thing you'll be say'nimbaugh called for censorship on F&S Just like the Dixie Chicks called on Bush! In reallity if you lose business it your fault, notthe readers! Quit blaming us for you laziness and poor ability to search for true villain's.
Your incompetence show's when you start blaming the customer!!!
Good Bye Field and Stream!!
Who is With me????
I dunno. Guess I'll go and drool over photos of Dr. Ball. Mebbe one day they'll get some shots of her snorkeling. Wish they would delete the photos of that ugly guy!
This comment section seems to have transcended the original discussion, but here are my two scents (sic).
I certainly accept Rush as a major villain for promoting HSUS in the last year, but if I had been making the list, I would put Cass Sunstein way ahead of him. Sunstein is deviously planning the end of meat eating by all folks, and will start by trying to ban the taking of fur,fish and game. President Obama will be making runs to veggie-burger stands for the staff not too long after.
Hey Bella, because I drive a truck for a living I must park and sleep at truck stops. I’m sorry but I got to tell you, drivers would pay you to stay away from their trucks, no shit! Seen pretty ugly lot lizards but damn Bella do something with yourself!
With all the things going on in this world, is this the best you got going on!
Got cheeking on the 6.5 Creedmoor, has the same trajectory as a 300 Win Mag and sounds like it can be chamered in an AR!
I wonder how many readers actually read both pages of Tom's explanation. He hit it right on the nose with HSUS - they thrive on the public's ignorance. I'll just re-post something I left elsewhere on the site:
Rush really lost some credibility with this - figure of all people he would have done his homework before supporting the HSUS. And, if he did his homework and still supports them, then he is a villian to all sportsmen, no matter his political views.
There is no halfway with the HSUS. Any of you that think otherwise had better pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes. The HSUS is associated with PETA. While PETA is out there to be seen, the HSUS is the slimy underbelly, doing whatever they can, without morals or ethics, chipping away at our hunting, fishing, trapping, and animal husbandry rights. They have filed countless lawsuits against sportsmen's rights in virtually every state. They are well-funded and will stoop to any low to achieve their goals.
Their name alone misleads many people who think they are giving money to state Humane Societies. They are being investigated for this and for misappropriations of many millions of dollars meant for animal welfare after the hurricanes in New Orleans. They even started a scheme using a name that sounded like a pro-hunting organization, taking hunters's money and using it to support anti-hunting activities. It was brought out when people noticed that the people running the organization were also associated with HSUS.
Don't give them an inch, a red cent, or any trust, no matter what they do. They are intent and focused and funded to take away the lifestyles we hold dear.
Tom - it's disturbingly obvious that the outdoors magazines and sportsmen's organizations need to educate sportsmen and the public about HSUS and PETA. Hard to do when emotions get in the way ... which is what the HSUS and PETA count on. The USSA does a lot, but in the courts and through its membership . The NRA does some. But I would love to see public service announcements in ll media telling the world what the HSUS and PETA are actually all about.
Tom - it's disturbingly obvious that the outdoors magazines and sportsmen's organizations need to educate sportsmen and the public about HSUS and PETA. Hard to do when emotions get in the way ... which is what the HSUS and PETA count on. The USSA does a lot, but in the courts and through its membership . The NRA does some. But I would love to see public service announcements in all media telling the world what the HSUS and PETA are actually all about.
Sorry Sandbagger, you ain't gonna sweetalk me into yer cab thataway, besides I'm taken. And I have sense and courtesy enough to give the 18 wheelers a respectful breathing space.
Remember in supporting shooting sports, wildlife conservation and hunting traditions, we are on the same side.
What! you don't want me on your side? Tough, Our 2nd amendment rights need every American gunner to stand up and if gun rights are not decoupled from other conservative social issues you could loose!
Anybody who thinks Limburger is a force for positive social change hasn't seen his track record. He don't walk his talk, so he can't be trusted. Period.
As a fishing/hunting liberal (yes, we do exist contrary to conservative belief) I'm pleased to be informed about the potential hidden agendas of the HSUS. I am on the other hand very aware of the problems stray dogs and cats create and the expense that is generated in their care when they're removed from city streets and dumped into a shelter. Dogs and cats should be spayed and neutered unless an owner has a legitimate reason for breeding; irresponsible pet owners should be held accountable and laws should be in place to help ensure that domesticated pets do not create problems within a community.
I applaud Limbaugh in his desire to support animal shelters and promote responsible pet ownership; he has a voice no doubt and I hope his actions help to shine a light on the unwanted and uncared for domestic pet problems so many communities face, but when it's all said and done... yeah,courtesy of Field & Stream's Tom McIntyre, he's still a big fat idiot. ;)
PLEASE nobody take offense at what you're about to read. Don't get your feathers ruffled. This is just my opinion of what I read above.
As far as keeping politics out of this,none of you have and by the way, the writer of the article brought it up in the first place. Politics should be discussed and discussed often because it dictates your life and your freedom to do what you please.
Now here is the part about not getting your feathers ruffled.
Petalover, I'll bet you eat meat like the rest of us but you only buy it at the grocery store where someone killed it for you.
dukkillr, Your right- your easily amused. fliphuntr14, of course you agree with dukkillr, you guys are in the same age bracket. I wish I was your age again and knew what I know now.
NotaLiberal, I like your attitude. Just don't drop F&S because they don't care stay or not. We needpeople like you around to keep voicing your opinion.
MLH, I agree with what your saying but the media wouldn't expose what HSUS and PETA are about as they to have the same beliefs. They are all anti gun, just like the liberals are. The real issue that needs to be pounded (and hard)on is the anti gun movement . But all the main stream media is part of the anti gun establishment.
Clay Cooper, I agree with everything you have said. Your O.K.
kevnbro, as a liberal, I hope you know that your voting for those liberals is against your freedom of owning guns. All you have to do is look at the voting record of any of them on gun issues. But you don't keep track of that stuff cause it's too hard. You just vote that way cause "They won't take our guns away because thats our right."
Now just a side note. I'm not a republican (but I vote that way) but a conservative. I believe in limited government (Democrats believe in BIG government.) I believe in less taxes (Democrats believe in more taxes.) Just look at how much they have spent since Obama has been in office. More than any president IN HISTORY. That was before they passed this 1 trillion dollar spending bill this weekend. AND I BELIEVE IN OUR SECOND AMENDMENT. (Most Democrats do not believe in it. Look at my comment above.) I vote the way I do because republicans are the lesser of the two evils. I wish we had a strong viable third party.
Hows that for talking politics.
By the way, I never listened to Rush until about two years ago. I like to listen to him as he does make some sense. Lets see any one of you Rush haters talk for three hours everyday, five days a week. But I'll bet your listening to some liberal radio program.
I know I couldn't listen to five minutes of a liberal on the radio.
Sand Bagger are you on another Wal-Mart load or you haven't eaten? Sounds like both LOL!
Bella have you ever talked to a Russian via Amateur Radio? Most likely not! During my 4 years in Alaska, they knew my location and never did they ask me what I did. All they talked about was their flipping cat! You lack of knowing people and a place is really showing, LOL!
People talk about things in their life other can relate to. It’s too bad Bella you can only regurgitate what some other nut job has said.
Do I listen to Rush and Hannity? Just enough to know what’s going on in the world. Both do lake the back bone to tell the truth why both Vietnam and this War in the Middle East do have in common. As for sticking up for what is really right, they don’t even come close to Michal Savage and Neal Boortz and Glenn Beck come in both about second. One thing I do like about Rush and Hannity, they really become a burr under the saddle of the Left Wing Socialist Party!
I can trash anybody here with my PC and become a PC Rambo. What I say here, I’ll say it to anyone’s face, don’t need to hide! I can trash Rush, The President even you Bella but one thing I will give you, the ability to say it; It’s called the First Amendment!
We don’t say Happy Holidays here in Coopville!
So Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah Bella and if that goes against your grain, get over it!
Welcome to the United States, the Land of the Free and the Free to LEAVE!
I hate typing on laptops and this word program would make good target practice!
Then stop Clay, you already stated how angry you are with F+S. I certainly don't want to read any more of your space wasting fascist ranting. Go hang out at a tea party and enjoy the "tea room trade".
And all you misguided repukes out there, It was Republicans who were confiscating guns after Katerina, Democrats have never confiscated guns! It ain't the Dems who are gonna steal your guns! It is the sold-out-to-the-global-multinational-corporations republicans. Why all this misguided loyalty to Murdock the Fascist. He has no interest in American freedom. He feeds you a line of half truth and you swallow it like a pickerel. Beck and Limburger are his obvious tools. You guys are sooo gullible.
So Clay, if F&S is such a liberal rag now why don't you go post somewhere where your specious comments will be appreciated. Walk your talk Clay and take a walk!
And Clay I AM a veteran, I earned my rights in uniform. You don't like "Liberal America", You go away. I'm staying and I hold the high ground.
Bella, your a veteran, I earned my rights in uniform. You don't like "Liberal America", You go away. I'm staying and I hold the high ground?
I thought your the one the VA Mental Ward has been looking for, LMAO!
Go take your pills and be a good little patient!
I AM a veteran, I earned my rights in uniform. You don't like "Liberal America", You go away. I'm staying and I hold the high ground.
Show me a Demorat that has helped us Veterans, Sen Blanch Lincoln and Sen. Mark Pryor hasn't done a damn thing!
As for you holding the high ground, get off the Porta John and stop blowing on the ventilation pipe trying to flush it!
Boy, what a nut job you are Bella!
And one more thing Bella, what have you done for the Veterans except whining!
Good shot Sand Bagger, LMAO!
Post a Comment
HSUS is not only the biggest enemy of sportsmen-- it is opposed to the owning and breeding of domestic animals, period. I have been fighting mandatory spay neuter amendments backed by them for years, in California and New Mexico. Limbaugh either is ignorant, cynical, bought and paid for, or has lost his mind. Any sportsman who does not fight HSUS at every opportunity is in denial or suicidal.
No matter what one's personal political convictions, the notion that espousing views somewhere to the right of center automatically makes any individual or organization a friend to sportsmen represents yet another example of "magical thinking". Bowhunters, for example, should remember that the NRA has supported the introduction of firearms into bow seasons, and the Congressional Sportsman's Caucus has spent more time shilling for development interests than it has standing up for wildlife and habitat. No matter who you're buying from, you better read the fine print. Rush Limbaugh's support of the HSUS is an unqualified insult to all of us, and Tom deserves all due credit for bringing it to light.
Clay Cooper, nothing you said has anything to do with the issue at hand. The fact that Rush Limbaugh is a conservative does not change the fact that he donated money to an anti-hunting organization.
I for one applaud your stance - the national HSUS organization is a radical anti-hunting organization that "hides in plain site" and gets alot of misdirected donations from people who think they are giving money to a local humane society group to help spay and neuter stray dogs and cats. Rush Limbaugh has only helped them foster this misunderstanding.
Field and Stream is, after all, a hunting and fishing magazine.
I will renew my subscription just as I have for the last 15 yrs. Way to go Tom.
Naming someone villain of the year who indirectly attacks hunting and fishing through supporting a animal humane organization is absurd. Am I anti-hunting because I bought a dog at their shelter and gave them money then? With all the direct attacks on our heritage doing something like this does far more harm in alienating people. Especially misguided pet lovers like Mr. Limbaugh who have no ax to grind with us, or didn't till now.
I'm still waiting on an explanation for Obama being a hero.
This is from an article on examiner.com about Cass Sunstein Obama's regulatory czar.
"Professor Sunstein has stated in the past that all hunting should be eliminated by regulation. This is extremely dangerous to hunters as this is one of the most powerful positions in the White House, controlling all kinds of regulations that will directly affect hunting. At a Harvard University conference, he said “We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn’t a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It’s time now.” Even though he seems to have left the door open to some hunting for sustenance in that statement, his other beliefs on animal rights preclude nearly all animal use. That is an extreme viewpoint not shared by most Americans."
I guess appointing people like this to very powerful positions is balanced out by the fact that Obama went fishing.
Please explain!
"Frankly, I think Rush was duped by HSUS --- heck, most of the general public thinks they are good guys that run animal shelters and actually help real animals, and he probably did too."
So now we now that we are all a lot smarter than Rush or the general public.
"A lot of reasonable people listen to Limbaugh and were likely influenced by his endorsement."
How reasonable or intelligent can they be if they get their ideas from a radio host? Can they not think for themselves or see that the HSUS is bad news? Are they blindly for it because drugs boy said they should be?
I would agree that Rush is no hero, but beating out the likes of Obama, Bloomberg, Newkirk and Schwarzenegger is a little off. Rush talks about things we don't agree with and may donate money to groups that hassle us, but that is all he is....TALK. All these other people are actively doing something against us, taking our rights away and being morons. Not just hurting our ears as Rush does, hurting our sport. Actions weigh more in my mind than words, just my opinion, I think that everybody in the red are losers (except glenn beck because I think he is a nice guy, not because of some of his views)
That's the problem Hobob - most people think giving money to the HSUS is the same thing as giving money to their local humane shelter - its not.
From the HSUS website:
"By long-standing tradition, local humane societies are independent entities. Each shelter has its own policies, governance, and priorities."
Most local humane societies are not extremist anti-hunting organizations - the HSUS is - but doesn't advertise it too loudly because it might reduce donations.
One example from the HSUS website:
"In a letter to Westchester County, N.Y., Executive Andrew Spano, The Humane Society of the United States voiced disappointment over plans to allow bow-hunting of deer in two county parks beginning Saturday. The county executive approved the hunting plan based on the recommendation of the county's Deer Task Force — a recommendation with which The HSUS sharply disagreed."
A quote from HSUS's Wildlife Abuse Campaign website:
"The HSUS's Wildlife Abuse Campaign promotes the humane treatment of wildlife by educating the public and lawmakers on the cruelty inherent in sport hunting and targeting the most reprehensible practices."
In other words, the HSUS wants to outlaw all hunting but they are going to be selective and only target a few practices right now because they know they don't have support to outlaw all hunting at this time.
OK now that you've explained Rush, explain Obama being a hero for going fishing once.I also don't see how Glenn Beck is a villain for criticizing TR.This whole piece was political and anyone that doesn't see that must have their head in the sand.
Limbaugh donated $50K in 1999 to PETA in order to make the Pretenders (My City Was Gone - opening music bed) go away. Ten year deal...Now HSUS. Serious esteem problems when you think the openiing music of each hour makes your show. Or, you are a complete phony and hypocrite. Reagan principals? Individual rights? The all knowing, all seeing, all phony hypocrite takes you for granted. Appreciate his politics and show if you want to but don't be like the liberals he (rightfully) criticizes and be in denial.
For what its worth, I carried his show on a radio station I owned when he donated the money to PETA.
The one thing that Rush isn't is a man involved with the physical environment beyond what he can see and touch. His political observations involving Washington and state governments is mostly spot on. In terms of his cat he feels. He has said many times that liberals feel and don't think. Well, Rush has just proved his point. We know more about fish & game, and every other outdoor pursuit than Rush does.
He is not the "Villain of the Year". He's ignorant, as is a significant majority of people who can tolerate living in NYC for any period of time. F&S is once again showing their colors on political issues. I for one have not seen Rush's indeed embarrassing promo's. I doubt he understands how stupid he looks and sounds.
I've listened to Rush a lot. Yes, he's supported NRA and our rights. It's not one of his big issues, however. Anyone who suggests otherwise is just ignorant. HSUS IS NOT a humane organization. It is a radical animal rights group that wants to end hunting. Has nothing to do with your local shelter. It was a stupid thing for Rush to do those PSAs, unless he really is a closet animal rights guy. And let me tell you, those that are believers are really whacked out, and you'd be surprised to find out who they all are. I still listen to Rush sometimes, and I still read F&S. Why is it that hunters have to all agree on everything 100%? Like the bowhunters not liking the gun hunters. We need to stick together folks. Against HSUS and others like them.
Uh, Bella, FDR didn't get us out of the Depression, he prolonged it with the socialistic-leaning New Deal. WWII got us out of the Depression, not FDR. I have no problem with Social Security, I think it's a great program if you want to do it...my issue is with the fact that you are forced to join it. If a person wants to opt out and cope with retirement on his own, he should be allowed to do so. You don't have an issue with personal choice, do you?
Yes, JFK is still revered by some Americans. Big deal. When a person is assassinated and portrayed as a martyr, people tend to be forgiving of his shortcomings. LBJ really got us going on affirmative action, which is extremely racist (why should a person's skin color get him preference at a job? All that AA did was to coerce businesses into preferring minorities over whites. Wonderful. There goes equality.)
Oh, big deal, Carter started Habitat for Humanity. He was also one of our worst leaders in foreign policy. Following your own argument justifying JFK because he is "revered by most Americans", Carter can be disqualified because he is disdained by most Americans. (The bandwagon theory is a logical fallacy, actually, but we can go there if you want.)
Finally, liberals are not in the majority (evidenced by the 56% of Americans who disapprove of health care plan, according to the latest Rasmussen poll). Also of interest, only 24% of people in America strongly approve of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as president, compared to the 42% who strongly disapprove (again, this is according to the latest Rasmussen poll as of 12/14/09).
Many liberals own handguns??? Sure, depending upon your definition of many. The facts remain that liberals are the people trying to get rid of guns (Bloomberg, Reid, Pelosi, Boxer, Schumer...the list goes on.) More loyal and more patriotic? It's your liberals who are screaming for terrorists to be tried in civilian courts, and it's your liberals who are prosecuting 6 Navy SEALS for punching a high-ranking terrorist in the face when they captured him! It's your liberals who have been screaming since Day 1 that the Afghan/Iraq wars are lost, depriving our soldiers of much-needed moral support! It's your liberals over at the NY Times who complain over the fact that we still commemorate 9/11 eight years after it happened!
And for the record, the Democrats have been in control of Congress since 2006, before the economic downturn even happened. The Republicans did not order the confiscation of arms during Katrina, that was solely the work of your "loyal", "patriotic", liberal New Orleans government. Obama has vowed not to interfere with our sporting traditions? Since when do you trust politicians? He's been appointing anti-hunting judges and officials since the day he first took office! (Can anyone spell "gullible"?)
Oh, and by the way, most liberals don't work hard. It's your liberal blacks who are claiming the lion's share of welfare, and it's your liberal senators who generously donate our money to their liberal supporters. (Btw, I come from minority blood myself, so I'm not being racist here.)
Finally, it was the liberals who opposed the surge in Iraq that proved successful. And, uh, the Constitution of the United States specifically states that this is a "republic", not a democracy. Majority rule is mob rule. Or do you not believe in the Constitution either? The liberals are responsible for America's problems, period.
Oh, and it is also very humorous that you would not renew a subscription to a magazine that you have clearly enjoyed for years due to one of the contributors attaching a meaningless antagonistic title to a guy that you happen to listen to on the radio. Quite a statement that you are making. It says more about you than it does F&S.
For a good listen go to http://www.scifirstforhunters.org/static/radio/
and listen to Mr. McIntyre discuss his "The Animal Right" column. Those who oppose and support those who oppose hunting might surpise you.
Frankly, I think Rush was duped by HSUS --- heck, most of the general public thinks they are good guys that run animal shelters and actually help real animals, and he probably did too. He took the links to the HSUS PSA's off his website darn fast, after his public educated him. I'm sure that contractually he couldn't get those two HSUS PSAs stopped with HSUS. I bet he's learned a lot, though, as many of his listeners educated him. Sadly, he hasn't publically disowned the group - .
Never really cared for Rush. Now I really don't care for him. Partially because he did ad's for HSUS, but mostly because he's a cat person.
Clay,
Are you accusing me of lying, of abusing drugs and being hypocritical?
Rush Limbaugh is a drug addicted moron who spews nonsense to other morons. His rhetoric is ridiculous. As a fervent outdoorsman I believe his support of the HSUS is extremely detrimental to our hunting heritage as well as our way of life. Rush is not an outdoorsman, nor will he ever be. As usual he is misinformed on what he is preaching.
The biggest problem I have with Rush is not his addiction per se, it's that he has built a very lucrative career on being critical of others. He has called for drug abusers to essentially be locked up with the key thrown away, while he himself had an addiction. (See my accusation of hypocrisy).
However. let's not forget his other "little" drug issue when he was caught entering the country with a certain other "enhancement drug" he had no prescription for, and apparently "doctor-shopped to obtain" (See my accusation of lying). Don't tell me he was addicted to that too!
If you think my definition of hypocrisy, which I have pulled from the Webster dictionary (an authority on such things as definitions), falls short, please correct me:
1. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc., contrary to one's real character or actual behaviour, esp the pretence of virtue and piety
2. an act or instance of this
Finally, I confess that I once thought the HSUS was a much more benign organization than it is. I, however, did not do public service announcements for them, my career isn't based upon being informed on such things as lobbying groups, and if I had made that mistake, I would have apologized and publicly denounced them after I realized my error.
Whatever.
Rush didn't get picked for this award becuase his stance on drug use, he didn't get picked for this award because of his consistency (or inconsistency) in behavior and words, and he didn't get picked for his political affiliation.
Rush got picked because (knowingly or not) as one of the most influential political figures in the country, he made multiple endorsements for an anti-hunting organization, and when he was informed of such, he didn't admit he was wrong and didn't issue a retraction or an indictment of the HSUS.
Bob81 - here's what I'm saying: the Navy SEALS were dispatched on a mission to capture a noted Taliban leader. They found him and had to immediately subdue him and get him out of there before they were discovered. He resisted, of course, and during the ensuing struggle one of the SEALS punched him in the face. This was not torture. If they had brought him back to base, tied him up, and then started punching him, that would have been classified as torture. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Getting punched during a fight is not torture; getting held down and punched after the fight is torture.
The Navy SEALS punched him once during the fight. They did not punch him because they were mad or because they were trying to solicit information, they punched him because they were in a war zone and quickly subduing him was necessary to their mission. This was not torture.
Bella
If making someone talk without physical injury to save lives, I’m for it. It’s pathetic how you say pushing ones religion on someone is wrong, yet you give those who are blowing innocent people a pass in the name of God. You said you had a Daughter, did you let her do anything she wanted, go wherever she wanted and lie? What did you do or would you do especially when she told you to F--- OFF! So you spank a child, so we spanked a terrorist and saved countless lives and you stopped her bad behavior and saved the child so what’s the difference Bella!
In Russia, a small border town was plagued daily by terrorists and they stopped it. Cruel? You bet it’s cruel, but they put a screeching stop to the bombings and shootings when the cutoff the head of the leader and sent it back to their parents. They got the message!
You’re dealing with a group of people who do not see or think the way we do. Hate is the way of life and life is hate! When I was in Egypt, an Egyptian Officer told me if you gave everyone what they wanted including wiping Israel off the map, would there be peace? NO! They would fight amongst themselves!!
As for you being a Veteran, say what you want Bella remember it’s called the 1st Amendment. A lot of Veterans died for that so you can give aid and comfort to the enemy and piss on the Country they died for and you can do that now thanks to your Liberal Friends and so much joy is it to do so right Bella! We/US Veterans call it treason!
“The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it.” -John Hay, 1872
Rush, conservatives, and the GOP could all be called enemies of sportsman simply for their consistently wrong stances on public land conservation and pollution controls as far as fish and wildlife goes. The three of them dutifully holler the "sky is falling!" every election cycle when it comes to gun control to keep their base and coffers (especially the NRA) fired up, when in fact taking hunters guns away is far off the radar of Obama and most liberals.
Rush, a blowhard, bigot, drug-addict, hypocrite, chicken-hawk, egotistical jack....
Ok, Rush Limbaugh on the villain side of the aisle, I understand. The man made PSA's on behalf of one of the most vehement haters of wildlife in America. But Rush, Villain of the Year?? What??!? When there are whackjobs like Ingrid Newkirk and Hillary Clinton out there? I love Field and Stream, but I think they may have missed the mark on this one.
Clay,
I'm generally a pretty even-keeled person, and reading anonymous comments on a website is one of the absolute last things that is going to get me fired up.
Besides, at the end of the day when all our sniping and arguing is done, Rush Limbaugh is still Field & Stream's "Villain of the Year", and that just makes me smile ear-to-ear. :)
As a teenager, all I can say is that it's pretty funny watching grown men fight and argue over Rush Limbaugh. (I also think it's hilarious when they try to be cool and and start typing LOL everywhere, but maybe I'm just easily amused.) =D
im 19 and in a college sociology class right know and my professor explained it pretty easy rush thrives on his judgements of people and the hell in a hand basket scare tactic many politicians use.
I personally think its even more hilarious that he is tied to PETA, man they are a big cult of opinionated morons
Limbaugh proved a long time ago that he is in show business to make as much money as possible. No one should be surprised that he sold his services so cheaply. Although he is sometimes a whacky funny entertainer, he is also a pathological liar. Furthermore, he has no respect for our elected government officials and is insidiously enhancing his career by playing on the fears of gun owners and bible thumpers.
I wonder how many readers actually read both pages of Tom's explanation. He hit it right on the nose with HSUS - they thrive on the public's ignorance. I'll just re-post something I left elsewhere on the site:
Rush really lost some credibility with this - figure of all people he would have done his homework before supporting the HSUS. And, if he did his homework and still supports them, then he is a villian to all sportsmen, no matter his political views.
There is no halfway with the HSUS. Any of you that think otherwise had better pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes. The HSUS is associated with PETA. While PETA is out there to be seen, the HSUS is the slimy underbelly, doing whatever they can, without morals or ethics, chipping away at our hunting, fishing, trapping, and animal husbandry rights. They have filed countless lawsuits against sportsmen's rights in virtually every state. They are well-funded and will stoop to any low to achieve their goals.
Their name alone misleads many people who think they are giving money to state Humane Societies. They are being investigated for this and for misappropriations of many millions of dollars meant for animal welfare after the hurricanes in New Orleans. They even started a scheme using a name that sounded like a pro-hunting organization, taking hunters's money and using it to support anti-hunting activities. It was brought out when people noticed that the people running the organization were also associated with HSUS.
Don't give them an inch, a red cent, or any trust, no matter what they do. They are intent and focused and funded to take away the lifestyles we hold dear.
As a fishing/hunting liberal (yes, we do exist contrary to conservative belief) I'm pleased to be informed about the potential hidden agendas of the HSUS. I am on the other hand very aware of the problems stray dogs and cats create and the expense that is generated in their care when they're removed from city streets and dumped into a shelter. Dogs and cats should be spayed and neutered unless an owner has a legitimate reason for breeding; irresponsible pet owners should be held accountable and laws should be in place to help ensure that domesticated pets do not create problems within a community.
I applaud Limbaugh in his desire to support animal shelters and promote responsible pet ownership; he has a voice no doubt and I hope his actions help to shine a light on the unwanted and uncared for domestic pet problems so many communities face, but when it's all said and done... yeah,courtesy of Field & Stream's Tom McIntyre, he's still a big fat idiot. ;)
Sand Bagger are you on another Wal-Mart load or you haven't eaten? Sounds like both LOL!
Bella have you ever talked to a Russian via Amateur Radio? Most likely not! During my 4 years in Alaska, they knew my location and never did they ask me what I did. All they talked about was their flipping cat! You lack of knowing people and a place is really showing, LOL!
People talk about things in their life other can relate to. It’s too bad Bella you can only regurgitate what some other nut job has said.
Do I listen to Rush and Hannity? Just enough to know what’s going on in the world. Both do lake the back bone to tell the truth why both Vietnam and this War in the Middle East do have in common. As for sticking up for what is really right, they don’t even come close to Michal Savage and Neal Boortz and Glenn Beck come in both about second. One thing I do like about Rush and Hannity, they really become a burr under the saddle of the Left Wing Socialist Party!
I can trash anybody here with my PC and become a PC Rambo. What I say here, I’ll say it to anyone’s face, don’t need to hide! I can trash Rush, The President even you Bella but one thing I will give you, the ability to say it; It’s called the First Amendment!
We don’t say Happy Holidays here in Coopville!
So Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah Bella and if that goes against your grain, get over it!
Welcome to the United States, the Land of the Free and the Free to LEAVE!
Bella, your a veteran, I earned my rights in uniform. You don't like "Liberal America", You go away. I'm staying and I hold the high ground?
I thought your the one the VA Mental Ward has been looking for, LMAO!
Go take your pills and be a good little patient!
I AM a veteran, I earned my rights in uniform. You don't like "Liberal America", You go away. I'm staying and I hold the high ground.
Show me a Demorat that has helped us Veterans, Sen Blanch Lincoln and Sen. Mark Pryor hasn't done a damn thing!
As for you holding the high ground, get off the Porta John and stop blowing on the ventilation pipe trying to flush it!
Boy, what a nut job you are Bella!
I too am a veteran. Clay , Pres. Bush kicked alot of we veterans off the VA health care we were promised. I got a letter 2 mos. after Pres. Obama was installed saying I was able to recieve again. I love his pick of Tammy Duckworth also. A dbl amputee of Gulf War.
Hey Bella, for the record I am a 4.0 student, I scored 1970 on the SAT, I am in the 97th percentile of all high school juniors nationwide, and I have been offered scholarships from countless colleges, including Ivy-League Cornell. I have also won over 20 swimming competitions (in a public school league), as well as having gone to the State championships in competitive piano. Not to mention winning a regional final in debate and 5 regional finals in speech. So much for being homeschooled. Can we stop the personal attacks now?
Point 1a - Bella needs to learn how to spell my user name.
Point 1b - Revisionist history? Can we look at the hard facts, like how the unemployed rate skyrocketed to 15% after FDR implemented the New Deal? If there is any revisionist history at work, it's all on your end (hmm, don't I remember you saying something about gulags? Aren't conspiracy theories usually considered "revisionist history"?)
Secondly, waterboarding isn't torture, and punching someone once isn't torture. Psychology teaches co-option? Can we please stay in the realm of reality here and say "some psychologists teach co-option"? Sure, some say that it works, and some say that it doesn't: the facts remain that it is unproven, while mild forms of mistreatment such as waterboarding or playing loud music in their cells 24/7 does work. (I am also offended by the fact that you put our own Navy SEALS in the same "evil" group as the Taliban just because they punched a high-ranking murderer. No way are you convincing me that you are patriotic.)
I am not denying that there are a lot of people out there with financial problems, I was denying that they are "underprivileged". The only privilege that all Americans should share equally is opportunity, not wealth or success. If you believed in the Constitution (like most patriotic, loyal Americans do), then you would see that using the FedGov to even the playing field is not the way it was meant to be. Socialism never has worked and it never will.
I'm not saying that everyone who lost their houses to the banks was a liberal. I am saying that the greater majority of the people who lost their houses were responsible for it themselves. When you live paycheck to paycheck, buying everything on credit, mortgaging your house so that you can live above your means, of course there are going to be consequences! If you don't plan for the future, eventually you are going reap the consquences. It's simple economics.
Moving on, I'm not blaming the "innocent", I'm not blaming anyone. You are the person trying to blame the evil, wicked banks here. All I'm saying is that people made bad decisions and they are having to cope with the effects. It happens everyday; we are supposed to learn from our mistakes, not run around screaming at the banks and then fall on our knees asking the benovelent government to come to our rescue. Suck it up, life is tough. I've been working at a manufacturing plant ever since I was 13 years old, so I know how to balance a checkbook and show up to work on time! Yes, I've made poor choices, but my parents didn't come to my rescue - they made me figure things out on my own. Result? I have been promoted twice and I am more financially responsible than 80% of the people walking around on the streets. Being fiscally conservative works every time.
Yes, I am middle class, I don't deny that we're in a financial downturn, and no, I'm not blaming any banks or CEO's. You see, that's difference between conservatives and liberals: liberals look for people to blame for their problems, while conservatives just suck it up and get to work fixing them.
I'm not even going to respond to your ending diatribe. I just think it's sad that a grown adult would stoop to personal attacks, insults, and religious slurs in a vain attempt to solidify her point.
I'm not a terrorist and don't have the mindset of a terrorist so it would be hard for me to say whether waterboarding is or isn't a good recruiting tool.
In regards to John McCain, the validity of his stance on torture has nothing to do with whether or not he is a Republican. The fact of the matter is that he is a far greater authority on torture than you or I. (Go ahead and argue that statement. I dare you!)
As lastly, on whether I would condone torture if it could stop 9-11: I would probably murder a whole room of innocent people with my bare hands if it would have somehow stopped 9-11 from happening. Would I be any less guilty of murder if it did? The end result of torture in no way determines its legality or whether it is allowed under the Geneva Convention. If we don't like the Geneva Convention, than fine, let's pull out of it. Until that point, we are constrained by its rules.
Granny - to start off with, waterboarding isn't torture. No one has proven me wrong on that point yet. Secondly, yes there are some times in which torture is acceptable. I'll ask you the same question I asked Bob81: if you could have saved the lives of 3000 Americans at 9/11 by torturing one terrorist, would you have done so? Or would you have let them die so that you could hold the "moral" high ground?
The facts remain, however, that the Navy SEALS were not torturing their prisoner, and the US Government does not torture by waterboarding (which makes this whole torture-debate a little irrelevant, but I'm totally fine with debating it if you want to do so).
As far as "you defacto become the bad guy and lose any moral standing", this is transparently false. Let's say that the CIA had been given a captive insurgent, and they tied him up and punched him several times. Are they equally bad as the insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan who blow up helpless women and children without mercy? No, of course not. Your argument falls apart.
You keep saying that we "imprison a bigger percentage of our population that other countries". Can we see some evidence here? Can you give us hard numbers to work with? Which countries are these "other countries"? If you are referencing England or France or any of those European countries that releases the greater majority of their criminals on parole before they even make it to jail, then I don't really see your point. There is reason that the US imprisons more of its population, and there is a reason that the US has a much lower crime rate than these other countries.
Liberals are not about liberty, liberals are about power. (As Wyatt pointed out, liberal is not the same word as liberty.) It's the liberals who always want more regulation and it's the conservatives who always want less! Duh!
How can I love liberty when I would deprive others of it? It's simple: if a person commits a crime worthy of prison time, they have forfeited their liberty. Releasing everyone from prison in the name of liberty is yet another utopian, liberal fantasy...
OK, let see: Bella hates the US Justice System, the US financial system, the US medical system, the CIA, the Navy SEALS who punched the terrorist, all the CEO's, all the banks, and all the "private for profit" prisons. And she also believes in innumerable conspiracy theories concerning this nation, including the "amerikan gulag" and the whole "zeks, screws, and masters" bit, and she also thinks that the government locks away whoever disagrees with them.
She also doesn't like the fact that we actually put criminals in jails.
So, Bella...what are you doing here in America anyway?
Bella - I've never said that torture is good. What I am saying here is threefold: 1) torture is justifiable in some circumstances, 2) waterboarding is not torture, 3) what the Navy SEALS did was not torture. I believe we are all agreed on number 3, correct? At least, Bob81 agreed with me about the Navy SEALS, and I assume you do as well since you haven't mentioned anything since. Moving on to number 1: is torturing terrorists ever justifiable? My answer is yes, and here's why: to start off with, terrorists are not covered by the Geneva Convention because they are not in uniform, therefore by international law torturing terrorists is perfectly legal. Secondly, I'm not advocating torturing every single insurgent we capture, but if the military has a reasonable belief that by torturing a terrorist we may uncover valuable information that would save the lives of thousands of Americans, for instance, then it is perfectly justifiable and moral. If we could have prevented 9/11 by torturing a terrorist, I think none of us would (or should) have had a problem with that, correct? Finally, as far as waterboarding goes, it is precisely what you said: simulated drowning. Drowning a terrorist would be torture, pretending to drown him isn't. If you pretend to hit someone, is that torture? No. If you pretend to shoot someone, is that torture? No. If you pretend to drown someone, is that torture? No.
So, in recap, here's what we have: 1) under some circumstances, torture of a terrorist is justifiable. HOWEVER, 2) waterboarding isn't torture, so we don't have to worry about it anyway. And finally, 3) the Navy SEALS did not torture their prisoner, which was how this whole torture-argument got started in the first place.
Moving on to the poor and destitute: to start off with, cut out the religious slurs. It has absolutely no bearing on this debate, especially considering that not all conservatives are Christians. (Anyway, your theological knowledge is a bit muddled: the verse says "Blessed are the poor IN SPIRIT", and being "meek" does not mean being either poor or destitute.) Furthermore, I AM NOT BLAMING THE POOR FOR THE CURRENT FINANCIAL CRISIS. Do you understand me? I am blaming the liberals for encouraging poor financial behavior; as far as the poor go, I am not blaming them, but I am saying that they are responsible for whatever personal financial choices they may have made.
We're not rational? Excuse me, but you are the hysterical one who doesn't even know how to write proper sentences! YOU are the one calling names and making religious and racial slurs, not me. Whatever happened to the liberal love of "tolerance"? As everyone can see, I am the one trying to be polite here as I address your rantings, and you are the one who has flipped her lid. Get a hold of yourself.
The UN is useless, we both know that. (I know she was talking to you, Wyatt, but I'm just going to plug in a few thoughts if that's okay.) What has the UN done? Iran still has their nukes, North Korea still has their nukes, half the countries in the Middle East are still trying to develop their nukes...the UN has done nothing except make empty threats. The League of Nations couldn't keep us out of wars, and the UN can't either. Btw, we would survive because we have the weapons. Your beloved, socialist France would be gone in seconds.
Colonize space? Wow, you really are an extremist. (I feel almost like a parent trying to tell a young child that Santa doesn't exist.) It's not going to happen. Sure, we've landed a man on the moon...and that's about all we've done since. Oh, and spend billions of dollars on useless research looking for aliens. I forgot about that.
Inflicting pain and suffering...look, if by inflicting pain on one terrorist we could save the lives of American soldiers, I'm all for it. You would be too, if you actually supported the US military.
Is Wyatt an anarchist? No, obviously not. He's not the one here who's making wild accusations in barely legible sentences. Take a look at history, Bella: anarchists are always liberals screaming for "change". The French Revolution (they wanted to "spread the wealth around"), the Communist uprising (communal wealth for all), NAZI Germany (National Socialist Party. Need I say more?), the car-burning hippies (they were also screaming about "gulags", curiously enough)...every time, it's the liberals who are the anarchists.
Taxes - your numbers are off. That's what usually happens when you arbitrarily pick figures and try to pass them off as facts. Your analogy is also pretty screwed, I think even Bob81 would agree with me on that one. The government doesn't "give" financial assets, it's not the government's job to do so. Here's what happens in an economy: it's called the trickle-down economics. The wealthy spend their money on goods, which in turn enriches those who produce the goods. Those who produce the goods spend their money on supplies, which enriches those who provide the supplies, and so on. What the government tries to do is take money from the rich and give it to the producers and suppliers as a free handout, which benefits no one. When the wealthy have less money, they spend less, which means that the class under them has less money so they also spend less, and so on. Government intervention in economics never works; it's always best to let the free market decide. Those who are diligent will rise to the top, those who aren't diligent will not rise to the top. It's simple: if you don't earn it, you don't have it. Government handouts do nothing productive.
We hate liberals? I don't hate them; I disagree with them, I think they are misled and confused, but I don't hate them. Out of all of us, you are the one who hates the most. Just read some of your posts, it's pretty clear.
I don't get your point about swallowing the whole conservative agenda or the whole liberal agenda.
How can we support freedom if we deny it to terrorists? Uhh...should I even have to explain this one? Moving on to your point regarding torture (you do realize that you said America is like China or Russia because we waterboard, right?), the majority of Americans are fine with waterboarding terrorists. It's not torture, and even if it was, it would be justifiable. A terrorist is a TERRORIST! According to the Geneva Conventions, torturing a terrorist is perfectly ok. Did you understand what that means? By international law, torturing a terrorist is morally justifiable!
Morals and ethics. You know, Bella, it's pretty sad that an adult would stoop to making personal insults to a teenager just because she's losing an argument. It says something about your personal character, or lack thereof. I'm more articulate than you are, I'm more logical than you are, and, frankly, I'm winning this debate. Go look back at the previous posts: you started out making a lot of arguments, I refuted them all, and you never addressed them again. (What ever happened to the wonderful liberal presidents, for instance?) In debate this is called "dropping the argument"; in layman's terms, it means that if you don't address it, you have conceded that your opponent is correct. The only arguments that you have kept addressing are torture and a few things concerning the economy.
In other words, grow up and stop making this personal. Address the ARGUMENTS and stop making ad hominem attacks. Also, concerning the Aryan Brotherhood - the NAZI's were socialist liberals, and I'm Hispanic anyway. I didn't realize that liberals were such racists against Hispanics, but I guess I was wrong. Can't you make decent arguments against my arguments? Why do you constantly have to fill up your posts with personal attacks?
We have discovered Bella's problem with the US Justice System! She doesn't believe that druggies should go to jail! Wow, Bella...this is sad. Yes, drug abuse is a medical problem, but it's also a legal problem. Druggies get medical help in prisons; I don't know what more you want.
Fascists are also socialists, Bella. Try to get your facts straight the next time you make accusations.
Oh, wow, you were in the US military. So was most of my family. Big deal. As far as "improving my outlook on the world" and becoming a liberal, you really need help: 85% of US soldiers voted for Bush in 2004. Soldiers are also a conservative bunch. Liberals are the exception.
Kerry was a liar who wrote the reports that got him his medals! As for the Swift Boaters, since over 70% of Americans believed them I think I'm standing on some pretty solid ground here. He lied to get his medals, lied to get the nomination, and then when confronted with his actions he lied again. Go see how many of the military actually believe his story! Short answer: almost none of them. The military voted OVERWHELMINGLY against Kerry and in favor of Bush.
Coward? You are the person who refuses to think for herself. Fascist? Fascists are socialists, like liberals not conservatives. Fanatic? Yes, I'm fanatically proud of America. Denialist? Sure. When I was a kid there were some other kids who made fun of me because I didn't believe in Santa Claus. Some things never change...
Bella, I have never seen anyone so ignorant of the facts especially thriving on hate and discontent
Want to have fun?
Challenge a Liberal and watch them melt down!
Church burnings, I remember if Bush wins, all the all the Black Churches in Arkansas would burst into flames! Never happened, LOL!
Bella, enough with the hearsay Democratic BS talking points, how about coming up with something real like Global Cooling and physical responsibility!
Speaking of physical responsibility, I deal with hundreds of Medicare and Medicaid patients bills daily. Not a single one has never been turned away for treatment but denials for noncoverage is another subject.
Bella, remember a long time ago in California how many Asians were mowing lawns and digging ditches and they had children. You don’t see hardly any Asians now; those children grew up to be Doctors, Engineers and someone of importance. The sad thing and what really burns me up is individuals just like you making other parents to believe they cannot do anything without Government help. Like you’re your kind has created what is now called the Medicaid Ghetto where people have been surprised so much they have to look down to look up! Save the Liberal crap Bella, I’m on the front line fighting for these people 9am to 9pm Monday thru Friday trying to get them the assistance they need! Back in Oct 98, I was in Elizabeth New Jersey scheduled for pick up the next morning to be delivered to Laredo Texas and transferred into Mexico. I was parked in a industrial parking lot and across the street was a Bar. The best places for a Hamburger and a Coke is places like this, so I went in. As I waited for my order, a Black School Teacher sat down beside me and we struck up a conversation about School Students. After about a half hour, she literally wanted me to become the Superintendent of Schools for that area. In fact she pleaded so much she begin to cry. Why is that Bella, you think you know so much and belive you so damn smart, you tell me why this grown respectable Lady of Education wanted some white guy driving an 18 wheeler to be the Superintendent of Schools for the Elizabeth School District. Why Bella, I tell you why! I believe each and every child has a special gift and I believe they can do it and to hold them accountable to those around and most of all accountable for them self and to challenge them and keep raising the bar higher and higher past their dreams. To give them praise and encouragement that they can do it and not to have failure and defeat to have the final word and most of all, just being there giving them safe harbor during time of need! Now fast forward to 95 Phoenix Az, Dysart High School. They were two Hispanic Students and the Principle had the audacity to tell the Parents why do you bother to send this kids to school, there failing miserably. I was stationed close by at Luke AFB and was asked to coach this Schools ROTC Shooting Team and these two students were on the team. When I found out the same time the ROTC Instructors did, we sprung into action informing the parents it is the School responsibility to tell the Parents what the Children need, not for the Parents to tell the School. This all happen on the 2nd half of the 1st semester and at the beginning of the 2nd half of the 2nd semester, these two Students was on the Honor Roll! Why, someone believed in them and stepped up to the plate and went to bat for them! So save me Bella the poor is me Liberal BS! I’ve been there, I’ve stepped up to the plate and went to bat for kids and I still do this day!
So Bella, tell me what you have done besides spewing your poison of hate and discontent!
I know what it is like!
I know what it is like to be seated behind the class with play do and a car while the teacher taught the class.
I know what it is like to be lucky for someone to tuck me under their wing, to challenge, to continually raise the bar, to believe I can do it and to encourage me and make a stand for me!
Its individuals like you Bella who make me mad as hell instead of truly helping those in need; you keep them surprised to further your cause!
It is the Democrats who in fact will accept a level of death and carnage to further their agenda!
By the way, that person who tucked me under her wing was Mrs. Swartzmiller, my 3rd Grade Teacher, who knew what I could do; in fact I exceeded every expectation. I wish she could see me now and I give her the credit in doing so! GOD BLESS HER!!!
I agree that Rush isn't currently helping our cause, but I kept hoping that Salazar would beat him out. I feel like the good that Salazar is capable of doing is far more important to sportsman than Rush endorsing the HSUS. I'm glad we have a Secretary of the Interior that is being so active in a positive way.
HSUS is not only the biggest enemy of sportsmen-- it is opposed to the owning and breeding of domestic animals, period. I have been fighting mandatory spay neuter amendments backed by them for years, in California and New Mexico. Limbaugh either is ignorant, cynical, bought and paid for, or has lost his mind. Any sportsman who does not fight HSUS at every opportunity is in denial or suicidal.
Well I think that the fact that our resident hippie PETA member SS3 is defending an extremely conservative radio host like him is indication enough that he's doing something wrong.
That being said I think people need to relax with the political talk. This is a hunting and fishing magazine and nothing more. Rush gave money to and did promo's for an organization that opposes hunting so field and stream called him on it, end of story.
"punished by him personally"? What's he gonna do? Steal their prescriptions? Sit on them?
WOW, I listen to him all the time. And one day I heard an add for the HSUS. I thought this has to be the station just getting money, not Rush him self. Just when you think you have someone on your side that is powerfull this crap happens. So let me get this right, It does n't matter were you stand on an issue as long as you get paid. Please don't tell me that Sean Hannity is running for president of P.E.T.A..
Clay,
Enough with the immature personal attacks of other posters already. Personal attacks are the bastion of people that can't win on the issues.
And I'll tell you why Limbaugh's actions were worse than Newkirks: Everybody knows Newkirk is a nutcase. Newkirk is doing the same thing she's always done, take outlandish stances to get her group donations and attention, and the same group of whackos continues to support her.
A lot of reasonable people listen to Limbaugh and were likely influenced by his endorsement. I wonder how much money from new donors the HSUS recieved as a result of his endorsement?
P.S. You liberal vs. conservative caveman story grows tired. Time for some new material.
Shane,
Personally, I think Rush is a self-serving blow-hard who has found that getting people riled up with ridiculous positions and statements makes him a lot of money. I think he is a drug abuser, a liar and a hypocrite.
With that said, I know a lot of pretty smart people that do listen to him, and I think he may very well be the most influential republican in the country at the moment.
Hey stick500- Please don't take this the wrong way, I am only telling you what I believe. First, I'll bet you are a liberal sportsman that votes democratic because you believe " taking hunters guns away is far off the radar of Obama and most liberals." Well I hate to tell you that you are believing exactly what the anti-gunners want you to believe. You won't be a fighting threat but a voting ally. JUST WHAT THEY WANT. Just take a look at all the anti-gunners ,the huge majority are the liberals, including obama, Biden, Pelosi, Reed,Clinton, Eric Holder (Our attorney general- who said once "the second amendment should be abolished.") and all the rest of them. They do have our guns on their radar, but it takes time and they have lots of it. Why do you think that people like George Sorros funded Obamas' campaign, just like he did for John Kerry when he ran against Bush in 2004. Also, the U.N. has our guns on their radar screen. Second, I'll bet you watch your main stream nightly news on ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN, or one of the other liberal news network. Now third, when you said That "Rush, conservaties, and the GOP dutifully holler the sky is falling every election cycle when it comes to gun control to keep their base and coffers (especially the NRA) fired up." That comment of "holler the sky is falling" sounds like a liberal comment. The only reason why they talk about the gun issue to get the gun owners to vote the anti-gunners out. There is over 70 million gun owners in this country and if every one of them voted to keep their guns, we wouldn't have any anti-gunners in government. NOW that would be a perfect world, no anti-gunners running our country. When I vote, I look at the persons record and Obama and his administration is the most anti-gun administration we have ever had. Sorry about this rant but it irrates me to no end when I hear people that are sportsmen saying stuff like you did. I wasn't knocking you, just trying to set you straight.
One thing for sure, Field and Stream has been taken out of my Business for the PC bull snit like Tom McIntyre and what they did to Sir Jim Zumbo.
Sand Bagger,
Please see my earlier comment:
"The biggest problem I have with Rush is not his addiction per se, it's that he has built a very lucrative career on being critical of others. He has called for drug abusers to essentially be locked up with the key thrown away, while he himself had an addiction. (See my accusation of hypocrisy)."
To me (and I should know, since I wrote it), it looks like I might actually be arguing for understanding in regards to people suffering from drug addiction! My complaint is more against Rush's hypocritical send up of such people!!
As far as getting caught with drugs he didn't have a prescription for to make his "little willie" stand up, ya caught me! I found that pretty d_mn funny!
Greatest and drinking problem or drugs don't go together in my world...
My dislike for Rush Limbaugh has nothing to do with this PSA. Great pick, but in my opinion for the wrong reason. This was the least of his trangressions.
This comment section seems to have transcended the original discussion, but here are my two scents (sic).
I certainly accept Rush as a major villain for promoting HSUS in the last year, but if I had been making the list, I would put Cass Sunstein way ahead of him. Sunstein is deviously planning the end of meat eating by all folks, and will start by trying to ban the taking of fur,fish and game. President Obama will be making runs to veggie-burger stands for the staff not too long after.
Tom - it's disturbingly obvious that the outdoors magazines and sportsmen's organizations need to educate sportsmen and the public about HSUS and PETA. Hard to do when emotions get in the way ... which is what the HSUS and PETA count on. The USSA does a lot, but in the courts and through its membership . The NRA does some. But I would love to see public service announcements in ll media telling the world what the HSUS and PETA are actually all about.
PLEASE nobody take offense at what you're about to read. Don't get your feathers ruffled. This is just my opinion of what I read above.
As far as keeping politics out of this,none of you have and by the way, the writer of the article brought it up in the first place. Politics should be discussed and discussed often because it dictates your life and your freedom to do what you please.
Now here is the part about not getting your feathers ruffled.
Petalover, I'll bet you eat meat like the rest of us but you only buy it at the grocery store where someone killed it for you.
dukkillr, Your right- your easily amused. fliphuntr14, of course you agree with dukkillr, you guys are in the same age bracket. I wish I was your age again and knew what I know now.
NotaLiberal, I like your attitude. Just don't drop F&S because they don't care stay or not. We needpeople like you around to keep voicing your opinion.
MLH, I agree with what your saying but the media wouldn't expose what HSUS and PETA are about as they to have the same beliefs. They are all anti gun, just like the liberals are. The real issue that needs to be pounded (and hard)on is the anti gun movement . But all the main stream media is part of the anti gun establishment.
Clay Cooper, I agree with everything you have said. Your O.K.
kevnbro, as a liberal, I hope you know that your voting for those liberals is against your freedom of owning guns. All you have to do is look at the voting record of any of them on gun issues. But you don't keep track of that stuff cause it's too hard. You just vote that way cause "They won't take our guns away because thats our right."
Now just a side note. I'm not a republican (but I vote that way) but a conservative. I believe in limited government (Democrats believe in BIG government.) I believe in less taxes (Democrats believe in more taxes.) Just look at how much they have spent since Obama has been in office. More than any president IN HISTORY. That was before they passed this 1 trillion dollar spending bill this weekend. AND I BELIEVE IN OUR SECOND AMENDMENT. (Most Democrats do not believe in it. Look at my comment above.) I vote the way I do because republicans are the lesser of the two evils. I wish we had a strong viable third party.
Hows that for talking politics.
By the way, I never listened to Rush until about two years ago. I like to listen to him as he does make some sense. Lets see any one of you Rush haters talk for three hours everyday, five days a week. But I'll bet your listening to some liberal radio program.
I know I couldn't listen to five minutes of a liberal on the radio.
And one more thing Bella, what have you done for the Veterans except whining!
Want to see a Liberal do a melt down, challenge them!
Rush is right!
Bella
Who's in charge of California? Look at what your Liberal ways have divested that State and now New York!
“It is my right to be uncommon...if I can; I seek opportunity...not security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed. I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stole calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat. It is my heritage to stand erect, proud, and unafraid; to think and act for myself; enjoy the benefits of my creations and to face the world boldly and say, This I have done, and this is what it means to be an American.”
-Dean Alfrange
By the way, I'll be donating a freezer full of wild game for feeding the homeless tomorrow for under the bridge meals without a tax right off!
Bella-I have a question for you. I really would like to know where you get all your information on what you said. "It was Republicans who were confiscating guns after Katerina, Democrats have never confiscated guns! It ain't the Dems who are gonna steal your guns! It is the sold-out-to-the-global-multinational-corporations republicans."
Please respond as I would like to know. I'm just curious where that comes from.
Wyatt Earp
Never thought of dat!
Bella does not have a clue or better yet is setting back laughing her butt off!
Bella - this debate is about conservatives vs. liberals, not Republicans vs. Democrats. There are a lot of liberal Republicans (Arlen Specter was a liberal Republican until very recently when he finally changed his political affiliation), and there are a lot of conservative Democrats (the Blue Dogs have conservative leanings in fiscal matters, at least.) Your argument about Katrina falls apart because it was the liberals who confiscated guns, regardless of which administration they were serving.
Nice blanket statement concerning the poor, "victimized" Democrats who were locked up behind barbed wire, but it's incorrect. Get your facts straight and provide evidence.
Torture does work - the point of torture is not to force someone to tell you the truth, but to force them to tell you everything they know...at which point you follow up their confessions as leads. Sometimes the leads fizzle out, sometimes they lead you to a gold mine. Personally, I'd rather waterboard every terrorist we have prisoner just to avoid one terrorist strike than to do nothing under the name of "humanity" and let American citizens needlessly die. As for the Navy SEALS, they shouldn't be prosecuted for punching an insurgent in the face while they were capturing him! It's not like they beat him up afterwards, they were trying to subdue him so that they could get out of the zone fast without compromising their mission, and your wonderful liberals want to prosecute them for that. At least conservatives don't go around stabbing our soldiers in the back for doing their job.
The "american gulag"? "amerika" spelled with a "k"? Ma'am, with all due respect, I teach competitive debate to high schoolers and one of the main rules is that when a person starts making blanket statements and coming up with conspiracy theories rather than providing actual evidence to back up his or her arguments, that person is getting desperate and is losing the debate round. Furthermore, your statements concerning America (yes, I capitalize it and yes, I spell it correctly) are much more defamatory than patriotic.
Your rich half-of-one-percent Masters are made up almost entirely of liberals, by the way - Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, the Kennedys, Michael Bloomberg...almost all of the fabulously wealthy people in America today are liberals.
We don't have an "underprivileged" underclass because there is no such thing. By the United States Constitution (oh wait, my bad, I forgot that you don't believe in it), Americans are entitled to success, they are entitled to equal opportunity to succeed - which your "underprivileged" underclass could do, if only they would lose the entitlement mentality and get off of welfare and get into the workforce and actually WORK for a living instead relying on government handouts!
Of course health insurance should come from private for profit companies! That's the only way to ensure quality care! If everything was for free and doctors didn't have to fear competition or losing their jobs, do you honestly think that the standard of medical care would go up? (Short answer: no.) Without the incentive of profit and competition, the quality goes down drastically.
I don't quite follow your chemical company point and your growth hormone point and your bigger prisons point, but I suppose they're just more conspiracy theories on your part. As a final thought, though, right now the liberals are in control of both the Legislative and the Executive branches of the US Government, sooo all of your defamatory claims concerning America should be applied to them, not the conservatives. As a thought.
As far as names go, Bella, I don't quite remember calling you anything...except gullible, I think I used that word once. Big deal. At least I didn't call you a "disgusting toad" or a "stupid clueless fool". The verbal abuse seems to be your specialty here. (Another debate tip: when your opponent reverts to personal attacks, that is another indicator of desperation.) As far as not answering a question goes, can you please specify? What have I not answered? It's kind of hard to figure that out when you just make statements (rhetorical questions are included in that category) instead of asking actual questions.
And finally, you said that we parrot the same old talking points and we need to show you some original thought. Well, ma'am, if 2+2=4, I am going to keep saying that 2+2=4! Your "original thought" seems to be restricted to wild accusations and conspiracy theories. I think I'm going to stick with my solid, evidence-based facts here...
Bella, you’re getting more ignorant with every key stroke!
I’m not going into ant detail, but seriously, the more you open your mouth the more I find you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about by regurgitating someone else’s talking points.
Katrina, the Federal Government must be officially requested by the State to assist, not the other way around.
Geneva Convention, only applies to Combatants in UNIFORM! Bella, you do know what a uniform is, it’s not a teddy or a pair of PJ’s OK!
Assault and UCMJ, so the fella got punched for being combative or got beaten up by the Local Government. Sucker better be glad he is still alive! This is nothing more than PC stunt!!
Cuban Missile Crisis, it’s obvious you don’t have a clue here! Besides, what do you know about ICBM’s anyhow Bella, I grew up with them, TITAN I and II! I know how to launch one with one size “D” battery, do you!
Cuban Missile Crisis was actually good thing; it proved both sides didn’t want war. I bet you don’t know the Soviets were watching and NORAD watching a missile launch at the same time! Cool heads prevailed!
As for Jimmy the PEANUT CARTER, he actually started all this crap that is going on now. I know, you’re to ignorant to understand yet alone history of!
Bottom Line Bella
Before you start spewing you Liberal crap you better dig into the history and laws that apply to what you wailing about!
Vietnam, I know you’re going to say that next; the United States was within 3 months of winning Vietnam until Walter Cronkite trying to score ratings opened his mouth saying the United States was losing. The fact of the matter Bella, there is no Army on this earth can beat the US Military. The only way is on US soil and congratulations Bella for being on the other side! Does the word “treason“mean anything to you! The 1st Amendment doesn’t allow you to yell fire in a Movie House or allows you to give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States Bella!
“And do not forget the petty scoundrels in this regime; note their names, so that none will go free! They should not find it possible, having had their part in these abominable crimes, at the last minute to rally to another flag and then act as if nothing had happened!”
-From the fourth leaflet of the White Rose Resistance in Germany, 1942. Five students and a professor who wrote and distributed the leaflets were executed in 1943.
Sounds familiar doesn’t it,
those who voted for the War knowingly full well Iraq had WMD’s. They had a year for their allies Russia, China and other countries to assist in to have these weapons to be sperited out and brought into their country. That’s right, a full year! It wasn’t PC to shut down the routes so all of it was disposed of and now, nothing to be found. Now those who have voted for the War say they were lied to, even John Kerry who chairs the Security Council and who hasn't bothered going to had the same information as the President.
So who’s the petty scoundrels in this regime; note their names!
Bella- I think you have overdosed on your medication and here is why-
When you said "I am both a liberal and a conservative. I believe in Liberty and in Conservation. I feel liberty is under threat in this country, when we are now imprisoning a larger percentage of our population than any other nation! The american gulag contradicts our founding principles of freedom yet more and more private for profit prisons get built."
You can't be both, sorry, that is not possibble for anyone,not even you. Just because liberal and liberty both start with "L" does not signify that they mean the same thing. they are antonyms- they are opposites!! Again, conservative and conservation begin with the the "C"(I feel like I teaching a forth grader.) but their meaning is not the same. Conservative means - a much stronger commitment to free markets, individual rights, and political democracy and much less attachment to hereditary aristocracy and state-support for a particular religion (Refers to politics), conservation means- A careful preservation and protection of something. Planned management of a natural resource to prevent explotation,destruction or neglect.(This could refer to our country, something the conservatives want to preserve and the liberals want to destroy.) The reason why our prisons are full is because the liberals have made the prison system into country clubs. We need to bring back the death penalty. We need to get tough on criminals so they don't commit crimes ever again.
When you said "I'm never quite certain what kind of america "conservatives" actually want. Do they actually want an underprivileged underclass everywhere, with homeless sick people starving on every streetcorner? Do you guys want even bigger prisons to put all the other people you just don't like in? "(YOU JUST DESCRIBED LIBERALISM!)
When you said "JFK is still revered by most Americans, we can thank him for setting us on the path to the moon (one of the greatest achievements of modern man)" Like dukkillr said- "When someone gets assasinated they are revered. "Going to the moon did what for us? Nothing but spend billions of dollars. It's a moon thats all. We can't live there and there is nothing there for us, even if there was something there, it would be to expensive to do anything about it.
When you said "Liberals are the majority, many liberal's(including Vice president Biden) own handguns," Now I know you've been overmedicated. Biden is one of the biggest anti-gun politicans in Washington. TAKE A LOOK AT THEIR VOTING RECORD. Why would he own guns when he is against the ownership of guns?
Wyatt - Excellent points about George Soros and HSUS. Thanks for your vote - if I ever run for president then I will definitely take you up on it. Also, great point about the voting records: voting records truly define how a politician really feels on an issue. (Unless they are like Barack Obama and just vote "present" to avoid having to make a decision.) If a politician says he is pro-gun, and then votes anti-gun, he is an anti-gun politician. Words are meaningless compared to actions.
Bella- Ididn't give definitions of liberal and liberty, sorry for not giving them to you. (As you recall, I said they mean the opposite of each other.) Here they are Liberal- an ideology with similar views on civil liberties and personal freedom issues but now supporting a much stronger role for government in regulating and manipulating the private economy and providing public support for the economically and socially disadvantaged, though still stopping well short of full socialism.
Liberty- 1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges : the power of choice
As you see, different meanings.
Badger Hunter - people don't "feel they have to walk lockstep with the conservatives b/c they hunt and fish". The simple fact is that the majority of hunters and fishermen are conservatives. PETA is a liberal organization, HSUS is a liberal organization, the Brady Campaign is a liberal organization, the VPI is a liberal organization...there is not a single anti-hunting or anti-gun group out there that is made up of conservatives. Every single one is liberal.
Regardless of how often you agree with Rush, the question at hand is whether his doing two ads for HSUS was enough to make him villain of year. I'm not a huge Rush supporter, but even I can see that it's pretty clear that making him villain of the year was overkill. He was a villain, yes, but definitely not the worst one out there.
Bob81 - Oh okay. I had made several replies concerning punching because Bella kept saying the same thing, so the last time I just condensed it. My apologies for the mix-up.
John McCain? John McCain is a nutjob who is not even a true Republican. Waterboarding does not cause any physical harm to the victim, it just provides an very unpleasant sensation. Besides, all the insurgents that we capture are out of uniform; the Geneva conventions don't even apply to them. By international law we have the right to kill them at any time if we so choose.
For purposes of illustration, if we could have avoided 9/11 by waterboarding a terrorist, would you have chosen to do so? Or would you have sacrificed the lives of 3000 Americans to avoid causing a murderer brief physical pain? Waterboarding doesn't physically harm anyone. It is not torture, it is a very useful interrogation tool.
Lol! The trouble with your user name is it is missing random letters. I'm calling you "Duck" from now on.
If you truly believe there are almost no liberal hunters, you need to venture outside your circle of acquaintences. It's certainly not the majority, but I think you might be surprised at the number of liberal hunters and fisherman out there.
About my "defamatory" statement: "Chill out kid". My post was just pointing out the ridiculousness of determining your political party based on the fringe of that party.
I see you all have been busy when I was gone. I can't stay online and was just checking to see if Bella answered my question.
Before I go, I am voting for dukkillr for president because everything and I mean everything he has said is fact and I agree with him 100%. He is one guy that has his head on straight. Clay can be vice president.
To all liberals- When you vote for democrats, you're voting against your gun rights. All anti-gun orgs. are liberal. Just look up the voting records on gun bills. The UN was hoping for Gore in 2000, they were hoping for Kerry in 2004 and now they have their man Obama in 2008. The UN by the way, is very anti gun and hates american freedoms. Goerge Sorros funded all these Dems in their bid for the white house. He isn't even American. He a globalist just like the UN is. That is a very bad thing. We are a soviergn nation and only the conservatives understand that The liberals don't because they are socialist but don't advertise it. Wake up and fight for our rights and our constitution.
I never have trouble with dukkillr's name and I don't do texting at all.
I don't have time now so dukkillr feel free to give Bella and the libs a lesson on way the dems can claim responsibility for the recession with sub-prime loans being given out to people that could afford them cause the dems thought everyone deserves a home. They blame Bush for all of it but its the dems who are to blame. Pelosi was speaker when Bush was president because they had the majority and they ruled the house. Can't wait for 2010. By Pelosi. I take offense for her calling me a nazi. Look who is calling the kettle black.
Thanks for all the support, Wyatt, I really appreciate it.
Sub-prime loans! Awesome point! The problem here really goes back to Bill Clinton when he forced - forced - the banks to give out loans to people who had no earthly way of affording them. (He even mandated that welfare checks be considered a source of income so that welfare recipients could take out loans on houses. Does anyone else see the problem here?). Actually, I'm going to go a bit deeper here and look into the wave economics of the matter: every economy goes up and down. Period. It's the way economies work. The upturns get new businesses started, the downturns weed out the financially unstable ones. This is simple economics. Anyway, the liberals came up with the bright idea of preventing economic downturns from ever happening again (tip: if you suddenly figure out how to beat a proven economic law, I would double-check, triple-check, and quadruple check your calculations before proceeding) so, that is the reason they mandated these sub-prime mortgages and forced banks to lend money to whoever asked for it. They figured that if everyone had easy credit, everyone would just keep buying and buying and buying and the markets would always go up! Well, this bright idea naturally created a housing bubble (and a credit bubble and countless other bubbles), all in a vain attempt to keep the economy always going up. You don't have enough money to buy a house? We can fix that by forcing banks to give you a loan. You don't have enough money to pay the mortgage? We can fix that one too - the housing market is going up, so we'll mandate that the banks give you another loan and then you can buy another house, wait for the prices to go up even higher, and then sell it and pay off both mortgages with the proceeds. (Obviously politicians aren't economists.) Sooo, what ends up happening is that some smart people realize that "hey, one of these days the bubble is going to collapse", so they naturally sell off their houses and stocks, and then other people panic and start selling off, and the next thing you know the housing market has collapsed and you are stuck with two unsellable houses and two unpayable mortgages. Welcome to 2009 and the year of foreclosures, courtesy of your friendly, all-wise liberals! =D
Does Conscientious objector mean anything to anybody?
Here is a scenario,
Bella Daughter has been kidnapped by a know child molester and murderer. Agents have proof of the suspect purchased materials and found evidence of pressure gauges and empty oxygen bottles in the trunk of the vehicle driven by the suspect. Other information just discovered by another Suspect that the Girl has 8 hours to live before oxygen to the hidden location runs out. The Prime Suspect has been caught by Authorities and 3 hours is now remaining and the clock is ticking!
What say you?
Gramps - hahaha.
CMBS's - can you specify exactly what your issue is here?
Credit rating agencies - we weren't talking about "real estate-backed investments", we were talking about real estate investments period.
Countrywide fraud - big deal. People are still responsible for their actions. Sure, you always have a few people who were legitimately scammed, but we're trying to look at the big picture here.
Overleveraged speculative development? Can you expand a little on this point so I know where you're coming from?
ARM's and NINA's - I don't really see your point. Sure they were new, but people still had to choose to go with them. If you make a poor decision, you pay for it.
Untested metrics and formulas - your point being? Innovation is innovation; if you feel uncomfortable with the way a financial firm is handling your money, then pull it out. If you ask for a loan and they approve you, and then you can't make the payments, you can't run screaming to them for having approved you in the first place. It's called personal responsibility.
Collusion resulting in over-inflation - um, this is sort of personal opinion here. Sure, they took advantage of a government-backed housing bubble. Can you blame them? In the end, the Clinton-esque policies are still responsible.
Personal responsiblity is key here. I can't stress that enough.
CMBS's - I'm not exactly sure, I haven't heard them brought up in a debate before. Can you just make your argument concerning how they did contribute (I assume that's what you're saying?) so that I know what we're talking about?
Real Estate Investments - I was talking about Average Joe taking out a mortgage on a house(s) he couldn't afford, and then being foreclosed upon when the economy tanked. What are you trying to say? If you would actually state what your arguments are, I would be able to answer you better...
Spec Development - yes, a lot of spec developers made poor decisions concerning the housing bubble. And they had to pay the consequences. Your argument is?
Personal responsibility - Banks have a responsibility to make financially sound decisions. Developers have a responsibility to make financially sound decisions. Investment firms have a responsibility to make financially sound decisions. Individual people have a responsibility to make financially sound decisions. If any of these - banks, developers, investment firms, and individual people - make financially unsound decisions, they pay the price. What are you trying to say?
Oh wow. It seems that we disagree fundamentally on a lot of issues, so I couldn't care less. And, uh, since we are still in the middle of the argument, you aren't exactly in a position to make that decision. I also can't help but notice that you didn't address the Countrywide point, the ARM's and NINA's point, or the collusion point. What happened?
More on ARM's and NINA loans (NINA means No Income/No Asset, for those reading who don't know). If you decide to take on an ARM, and it ends up that you can't afford it, that's your fault. As far as NINA loans go, if you go for a loan and are willing to pay the higher interest rate because you don't have or don't want to provide any financial information, then you most likely haven't mastered the slightest degree of economics whatsoever.
The bottom line is this: if you are going to take out a loan, make sure you can afford it. If everyone had done this, we wouldn't be in the financial state that we are. Of course, my original point was that the Clinton adminstration worsened matters by encouraging poor economic behavior...
Welcome to the "Dave Ramsey Show!" Stick around just might learn something, by'golly!
I HAVE TO PROOF READ MORE- When I clicked on post comment, I read part of my comment while I waited - "The problem wih you guys is you are the common sense genes." It was suppose to be- The problem with you guys is you don't have any common sense genes.
I hit the escape key and my posting wasn't on the page. Had to type it over and the SECOND ONE IS CORRECT.
(I posted this so the liberals don't start to think they have common sense.) If only they did, we could get this country back to it's greatness and be rid of high taxes, the UN, and the anigunnrs. (Bob81- the last word is two words put together, two letters are missing. One consonant and one vowel. The letters t, and e !!! Spells anti gunners.
Update to the story!
As you know, our scenario is,
Part 1
Bella Daughter has been kidnapped by a know child molester and murderer. Agents have proof of the suspect purchased materials and found evidence of pressure gauges and empty oxygen bottles in the trunk of the vehicle driven by the suspect. Other information just discovered by another Suspect that the Girl has 8 hours to live before oxygen to the hidden location runs out. The Prime Suspect has been caught by Authorities and 3 hours is now remaining and the clock is ticking!
Now for part 2
ACLU gets a court order to have the Prime Suspect released!
10 minutes remaining until oxygen runs out and Bella's Daughter dies!
What say you?
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
-Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.
Bella-PLEASE READ.(Try to comprehend what you read.) You say we call you names, I haven't seen it but look at all the name calling you just did. Pretty pathetic really. I call it spewing of the mouth. (Means- To pour forth.) Let me say that you really know how to spew. Look at you,saying we call you names. What to you call your rantings?
Clay and dukkillr are right.
You are totally lost, and dukkillr said "We're not rational? Excuse me, but you are the hysterical one who doesn't even know how to write proper sentences! YOU are the one calling names and making religious and racial slurs, not me. Whatever happened to the liberal love of "tolerance"? As everyone can see, I am the one trying to be polite here as I address your rantings, and you are the one who has flipped her lid. Get a hold of yourself." and
"In other words, grow up and stop making this personal. Address the ARGUMENTS and stop making ad hominem attacks."
Dukkillr has asked you to address the arguments, which you never do. I have asked you things and you ignore them completely. To me that shows that you don't want to debate anything but only spew like a liberal does. I haven't called you any names, as that is not my style, I will not stoop to that level.
Now Bella, I believe truly that you don't comprehend anything you are reading here. It would be useful if you tried.
More later-----
Religion?
What is Religion?
Religion is put simply is Manmade laws of rituals and fences for one to do and/or to keep one out or in.
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Faith?
What is Faith?
Faith is believing in.
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You can believe in what Religion you may and with all your rituals and fences following the letter to its core is purely nothing!
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Faith?
Faith and having a relationship in what you truly believe in.
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I don't like Religion!
I don't believe in Religion!
Religion has done a lot of good and no good!
But the facts are very simple to me!
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior!
For anyone wants salvation must go directly to Him period! One can assist, one can help, one can advise but if that Person or Persons who wants a relationship doesn’t have to go threw no man!
If you want to talk to Jesus, He is listening.
If you been talking and haven’t received an answer, perhaps you haven’t been listening close enough!
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It's very interesting to know that the Bible has more factual archeological information than any other book.In fact since the 1940's, Archeologist have found lost Cities recovering stories and names found no were else than in the Bible. So tell me my Armchair Theologians, explain that one away! :) <><
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