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Tom McIntyre Explains His Picks for our 2009 Hunting and Fishing Heroes and Villians Face-Off

When I named Rush Limbaugh hunting and fishing’s Villain of the Year in the current issue of Field & Stream (December 2009-January 2010), some readers immediately fired back at the magazine—and me—with angry letters. Some wanted their subscriptions canceled. Some accused me of being a Democrat and a Communist. Some alluded to a physical impossibility involving where they believed my head resided. Some were even unpleasant.

As I explained in the story, Mr. Limbaugh received his honor for having produced two public service announcements in April on behalf of the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS).  What was disturbing about this was that we have come to expect support for anti-hunting groups when it comes from the usual suspects: teen movie stars or vegan leftwing whackjobs. But Mr. Limbaugh is someone whom we might have assumed knew better than to provide aid and comfort to the likes of HSUS.

In one of the PSAs, Mr. Limbaugh spoke of his vast affection for the “treasure” that is his little cat Punkin, promising ominously that if anyone ever did harm to her, “they would be punished” by him personally. He went on to claim, though, that the HSUS was there to help other animals not under his direct protection and to praise it as an “ally” of law enforcement in the “animal realm” when it came to the crime of dog fighting. (Never mind that the manager of the HSUS’s “animal fighting campaign” has been reported by The New York Times as having been convicted of animal-rights vandalism and as describing himself as a “graduate” of the Animal Liberation Front, which is identified by the FBI as a terrorist group.) In the PSA, Mr. Limbaugh also managed to repeat the HSUS’s sinister and dubious statistics about dog breeders being known associates of dog fighters and other violent lawbreakers—a ploy the HSUS uses in a continuing crusade to prohibit the breeding of all pets. Don’t forget to spay and neuter, folks!

PSA number two was, if anything, only weirder. Mr. Limbaugh took note of what he termed a “new alliance forming out there” that is a “positive one for the sake of America’s traditional values.” This alliance is based, according to Mr. Limbaugh, on a “new faith outreach program” instigated by the HSUS that, according to the HSUS, “seeks to engage people and institutions of faith with animal protection issues.” (Forgive the cynic in me for sensing more than a whiff of sanctimonious hypocrisy on the part of the HSUS.)

In a way, it might be understandable that some Field & Stream readers—those who revere Mr. Limbaugh as a conservative role model, radio legend, irreverent slayer of sacred cows, and American patriot—would be outraged to see him attacked or even questioned on any grounds. On the other hand, from the viewpoint of dedicated hunters and anglers, it is utterly incomprehensible to believe that it’s no big deal for Mr. Limbaugh to lend his considerable support to the HSUS, or that the HSUS isn’t such a bad organization and that it even does some genuine good for animals. This is what is commonly referred to as “magical thinking.”

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

I'm not attacking independent thought, I'm attacking the kind of independent thought that involves rejecting common sense in the name of "free thinking". I do plenty of independent thinking: almost all school curriculums today teach evolution, but upon my own critique of the scientific evidence I've rejected it (the law of expansion proves that the universe had a definite starting point, so the molecules necessary for the first life form have not been here forever, so where did they come from?). That is an example of independent thinking that uses logic, and I'm fine with it. Bella was raised Mormon, and she decided that it was corrupt, so she rejected it, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Great move on her part. So anyway, I'm not against the logical type of independent thinking, but I am against the type that involves filling your mind with nonsense in an attempt to see the whole picture and involve all views. (Kind of like the people who try to accept all religions in the name of tolerance. I'm sorry, but nearly all of them are completely bogus, and I have no need to study and learn more about them and listen to speeches by the Pope. For example.)

Well, pal, there's a reason for "cheap debate club BS". If I say that you misquoted someone, and you don't answer me (because you don't have an answer), then I'm going to operate under the understanding that you did it on purpose. It's the only thing I can do. I was just trying to give you a chance to explain yourself because I don't like to jump to conclusions like that (purposeful misquotation is a very, very low thing to do.) So did you do it on purpose or didn't you? This is very simple, bud.

In the US political world there are two main parties, Republicans and Democrats. And there are Independents, but they never come close to winning so they don't really matter. Anyway, if you reject one of the two main parties as the "Reprehensible Party" then either you support the other or you support no one, which is even worse. Stop sitting on the fence and make up your mind.

So you lived in an area with KKK members who used the verbiage "Christian" as an attempt to justify their actions. Wow. The NAZIs tried that at first (with the Catholic church, which is just as corrupt as the Mormons in my mind), although they eventually turned on the Catholics. There are many other areas where KKK doesn't try that and they come right out and say that they want equalization of wealth, among other things. Which is liberal.

I know that liberal doesn't mean anything I don't agree with; but politically it usually does. I'm against excessive taxes, and libs are for them. I'm against gun control, and libs are for them (I understand that you don't, Bella, but I am speaking of libs as a group here). I'm against abortion, and libs are for abortion.

Perjorative! Thanks, you just jogged my memory! I almost forgot to mention this: I did some further research on "ditto-heads", and it turned out that Rush didn't coin the phrase (as you claimed.) Rather, the news article I read stated that the libs had used the phrase as a perjorative for awhile until finally the Rush supporters adopted it (kind of like the way the Americans adopted Yankee Doodle). Just thought that was interesting.

Oh okay, you're trying to pick a fight with your Spanish phrases. And you're pretty heavily into stereotyping, which doesn't really bother me since I don't fit into that extremist stereotype. I hope that didn't disappoint you too much.

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from rabbitpolice88 wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Yup, Rush has done sooo much to destroy conservation and hunting in general, everyone knows he is a peta freak. NOT, F&S, you really messed up this time. I mean just went off half cocked, anyone who thinks Rush is out to destroy hunting and conservation is a fool or a liberal, they are both the same thing.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

There you go duck. All religions but yours are bogus & you hate the Catholics too. No wonder you defend the KKK. "Onward Christian soldiers" and all that. Never mind all that right wing racism, hatred of jews, catholics, ni**ers, & immigrants--the KKK is a really a "liberal" organization, hell bent on picking flowers and redistributing the wealth. lol Your narrow minded fundamentalist Christian views are showing. (Don't get me wrong--I'm not calling you a racist. I get the impression that you're not). The KKK is not liberal. They want to "equalize the wealth" back to white people--that's one of their recruiting tacticts: "those jews have all the money" and "those ni**ers and immigrants took all the jobs."

Merry Christmas--I gotta go take Mom to Catholic church.

Rabbit--you should stay in the rabbit hole on this one. dukkillr has got you covered. If you keep poppin your head up, you'll just help me prove some of my points. And feliz Navidad to you too.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

There you go duck. All religions but yours are bogus & you hate the Catholics too. No wonder you defend the KKK. "Onward Christian soldiers" and all that. Never mind all that right wing racism, hatred of jews, catholics, ni**ers, & immigrants--the KKK is a really a "liberal" organization, hell bent on picking flowers and redistributing the wealth. lol Your narrow minded fundamentalist Christian views are showing. (Don't get me wrong--I'm not calling you a racist. I get the impression that you're not). The KKK is not liberal. They want to "equalize the wealth" back to white people--that's one of their recruiting tacticts: "those jews have all the money" and "those ni**ers and immigrants took all the jobs."

Merry Christmas--I gotta go take Mom to Catholic church.

Rabbit--you should stay in the rabbit hole on this one. dukkillr has got you covered. If you keep poppin your head up, you'll just help me prove some of my points. And feliz Navidad to you too.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Duck, I didn't misquote Rush. He calls you ditto heads. You call youself ditto heads. So you insult yourselves--fine with me. It makes no nevermind to me how it started. So it seems you've captured the term--like the hip-hop gangs have captured the "N" word. There's some common ground I didn't see coming. You ditto heads have a lot in common with those saggy-pants, underwear-showing, disrespectful punks that drive by and rattle my windows with their rap music. LMAO

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Soo McVeigh was a "chestnut", merely insane huh? And Terry Nichols? Was that "Folie au Deux"?
I spent years working in the mental health field, I am trained in assessment and I have experience working with schizophrenia, Borderline personality disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, , depression and various other disorders. So I have worked with a whole lot of crazies and insane people rarely have the ability to co-ordinate their activities of others. McVeigh, Nichols and unnamed others created and co-ordinated a detailed and destructive plan. While McVeigh certainly qualifies as a sociopath, that doesn't make him insane and if he were the notion that Nichols would be afflicted with the exact same mental disorder are practically nil. Or you under the impression that McV acted alone? The evidence doesn't support McV as a lone actor, that is why Nichols sits in the slam.
The Notion that the National Socialists are liberals is as absurd as the notion that FDR prolonged the great depression. Agencies like the Civilian Conservation Core and the Works Progress Administration provided work to thousands of American families while building infrastructure we still use today. Most of the Appalachian Trail was built by the CCC, Like today, the banks just weren't lending and so the gummint had to step in to help people. And now the wheel is come full circle. Those who would manipulate our economy for their own benefit got the Roosevelt era banking regulations removed and then they ran the system into the ground again. You ever hear of Hoovervilles? Well the tent cities of the dispossessed are a fine approximation and are likely larger than the 'villes of the '30's, as there are more of us. People claim the dispossessed are invisible, but that is only because they wear blinders and see only what they want to see. Others claim the disposessed are at fault for their own predicament, any one who feels that way should watch their step, because there are quite a few folks who once felt the exact same way who are now freezing in tents.
I also want to revisit the torture discussion. The US military Field Manual forbids torture or the mistreatment of prisoners. If you are the "good guys" then no torture. period. Two wrongs do not make a right and never have. No matter what evil act a captive may have committed there is never a justification for "tuning people up", rubber hoses, electricity to the genitals, sexual abuse, siccking dogs on men in restraints or simulated drowning (waterboarding). When someone resorts to such vile acts, one falls to the level of those we oppose and if we have to fall to their level to defeat them we have lost the war, because we have betrayed our most sacred principles of justice. Perhaps Duckster our most sacred principles of justice and equality weren't instilled into you, but they should have been.
Torture is practiced and advocated by sadists, people who enjoy inflicting pain on others. Sadists are usually manipulative people who will seek to justify their desire to hurt others with numerous ploys. The old saw about the bomb set to go off and only by waterboarding the terrorist can it be found to be disarmed is a specious argument. If the bomb blows responsibility is still on the terrorist, not the person who refused to waterboard him. At any rate, if you are simulating drowning somebody by strapping him to a board, putting a thin cloth over his mouth and nose and pouring water over him to soak the fabric, How is the prisoner supposed to say a word? You let him up, he isn't drowning anymore, he can't talk while you are torturing him anyway, his mouth is full of wet fabric! Often the force of the water pushes the fabric right down into the throat, whereapon the interrogator yanks it out, abrading the soft tissues of the palate, causing great pain and making it difficult to speak as well. That my friends is how you waterboard somebody, anybody who thinks it ain't torture is welcome to try it for fun. Waterboarding is not compatable with interrogation even if it weren't torture.
And what was with the sexual abuse of prisoners, stripping 'em and putting panties on their heads and making 'em do naked human pyramids and sexually demeaning homoerotic stuff. Who came up with that? Liberals I'm certain (according to Clay, Ducky, Belch and Rabbitboy). What pervert ordered prisoners treated that way! I was soo disgusted. The Brainiac who came up with that idea must have wanted the Iraquis to hate us forever! What possible good could have come from sexually abusing prisoners in US military custody? Now the world still likely thinks the US military is chock full of perverts, and how will they treat our men and women in uniform now that we have treated people so very badly. The Field Manual is all about Winning Hearts and Minds, (after you destroy their will to resist). No minds were won and hearts were only hardened, with torture, everyone looses. And if the rethugs are the party of people who approve of torture, then all the more reason to be relieved they are out of power. Torture is evil, if you approve of torturing people, then QED you must approve of evil, and if you approve of evil then you likely are evil. Get thee behind me Satanic fool, may you reap what you sow.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

To the Catholic haters: I realize that hate is now a "family value" so I guess that's par for the course. That's your history, Christians. The original Christian church was Catholic and now you want to deny them. Is that one of your "bogus" religions, duck-dude? Not yours so it must be wrong--how Christian of you.
I survived 13 years of Catholic education and I managed to escape the brainwashing. Too bad the brainwashing worked so well on you.

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from John L wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

"The old saw about the bomb set to go off and only by waterboarding the terrorist can it be found to be disarmed is a specious argument. If the bomb blows responsibility is still on the terrorist, not the person who refused to waterboard him. "

Yeah, and your loved one (if you have any)is still DEAD!!!
How's your morality holding up now?

Talk about a specious argument.
Idiots, all.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Yes, John L, those of us with morals are idiots and you're such a good "Christian." I must have missed that part of the bible.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Yes, duck boy, I'm "heavily into stereotyping" am I? Projection--one of Rush's specialties. Did you learn it from him? I happenned to notice that some far right wingnuts get annoyed when they hear spanish so now I've "stereotyped" all far right wingnuts? Thanks for playing, try again. Is it OK with you that I also "stereotype" the animal rights kooks as far left wingnuts? Sorry if that doesn't fit neatly into your stereotyping of me as a liberal.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

dukkillr- Just remember what John L said "They don't deal in thought or facts, it's all about how they "feel"."

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Earp, my sarcasm went right over your head on the Fifth Amendment comment. Did you hear the WOOOOOSH as it went by you? When far left liberals go after our Second Amendment rights and privileges, we don't like it. The difference between you and I (feel free to opt out of the "stereotype" if you wish, but turnabout is fair play, so as you stereotype me I will return the favor) ... the difference is that I support all of our rights and any privilege that does not interfere with the rights of others. You, the far right, and the far left all cherry-pick your rights and seek to deny rights to those who don't share your ideology. My 5th Amendment example illustrates ... (anyone ever notice that a joke isn't nearly as funny if you have to explain it?) ... that the stereotypical righty shares my love of the Second Amendment but abhors the results of the Fifth. It's always "those dam^ liberal judges" when they uphold the Fifth Amendment and "ditto" when they fail to uphold the Second. The far left takes the opposite, equally hypocritical, view.
John L challenged me to get off the fence. LMAO, and join your flock of sheep? Or should I lock myself in the cage with the lemmings? No thanks. I'll cut my own path. You seem to suggest, johnboy, that I'm weak-minded and indecisive. You're sadly mistaken, sonny-boy. I am certainly not a weak-minded "ditto head" that's afraid to leave the safety of the group.
Maybe the far right and the far left should join together through your shared sense of extremism. You could call yourselves the UHA--United Hypocrites of America.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

LMAO Earp. "It's how they feel!" lol You mistake me--me?--for a touchy feely bleeding heart liberal? That's f'n hilarious! My coworkers all think I'm a crazy gun toting redneck with an unusually high IQ, but you think I'm a namby-pamby liberal that's too stupid to join the obviously "right" far right. Maybe you should come gator hunting with me and see if you'll say that to my face.

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from John L wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

seadog,
With all respect, I can't figure out WHERE you are.
I know I/we (you,they,whoever) cannot and do not agree in lockstep on all items, but we should be able to discuss.
And, what do you have against gators????

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Seadog - I'm not saying all the KKK was liberal like that, I was just showing that you can't polarize a group like that. They AREN'T conservative, as a group they hold none of the conservative principles. It sounds like you are selling out to the "if they aren't lib, they're conservative" camp now.

Catholic church - My mom was raised Catholic, my dad was raised Catholic, and 75% of my relatives are Catholic. Catholicism is corrupt, that point is indisputable. For instance, your "infallible" popes are anything but; in the past there was a pope who masqueraded as a man until "he" got pregnant and was revealed to be female. I know a lot about Catholics, a lot of my family is Catholic, and they are a corrupt organization. That being said, I DO NOT HATE CATHOLICS. I do have serious issues with the religion, though.

And yes, all religions but mine are bogus. It works the same way as 2+2=4 - if I have the correct answer, then I don't care about all the other people who say 2+2=5 or 2+2=3. I'm not being narrow-minded, I'm just sticking with the truth.

Misquoting Rush - you said that the term was coined by Rush (lie), that he used it to describe his followers (lie), and that it means that they blindly believe anything he says (lie). How is that NOT misquoting?? Nice example, but it doesn't apply.

The original Christian church was not Catholic in the sense used today (Catholic back then meant "universal"). If you want to argue about Catholicism, we can, I have lived with Catholics all my life.

Stereotyping - in the name of the Blessed Virgin-who-is-not-a-virgin-anymore, seadog, do you not read my posts? I have already retracted my original lib impression of you several posts back and am now referring to you as a moderate (based upon some more info about yourself that you have provided.) I already told you, I hardly listen to Rush. I listen to him about as often as I listen to David Letterman, which is very seldom. Anyway, none of us here are "far-right wingnuts", so you can stop if you want. I don't really care, but I doubt if you'll get a response.

Wow, you really do enjoy boasting about hunting those big lizards, don't you?

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from sarkoo wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

I'm curious why Obama was the hero. I went fishing this year too, and im not in the running.
Seems like another New York based publication is villanizing Limbaugh and canonizing Obama. I assumed a private citizen's choices as to hunting pro or con would be respected as we would like our own to be. I dont see Limbaugh in a position to pass laws or raise taxes that would effect our rights as hunters.
I do not ever remember a liberal who took office that didnt want to take restrict or heavily tax firearms. You hung Zumbo out to dry for much less.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Bella - No, McV wasn't the lone actor. And I'm not saying that his co-conspirators were insane either. What my whole point was is that they WERE NOT CONSERVATIVES. They may have masqueraded as conservatives, or told people that they were conservatives, but that doesn't mean a thing. If I went out and killed a bunch of people and then claimed that I did it because I was a liberal, would that make me one? Nope. They were lying through their teeth: why do you suddenly trust them on this point?

OOOOkay, you said one sentence about the NAZIs and then jumped into the Great Depression. Don't just SAY that the National Socialists weren't liberals, PROVE it. How weren't they? Sure, they didn't advocate global warming or the enviro or anything, but then again they didn't know about those issues back then. Judging by the issues of their day, they were much much closer to being libs than conservatives. Conservatives are NEVER socialists, libs usually ARE.

Great Depression - Wow, the New Deal created some jobs and helped a few people out. Amazing. It also shot up inflation, and cost us a lot more jobs in the long run. And prolonged matters. What do you have against the free market? New Deal-type socialist regulations that started when the Democrats took Congress back in 2006 are what got us here, not the free market. Check out Norway, France, Germany, England...all those countries have struggling economies too. What's the common factor here? They have socialist regs in their economy, and so do we. Abolish the socialism and kill the National Debt and the dollar's value will skyrocket. Remember what Obama said this spring? He said that "unless we pass the stimulus package, unemployment will reach 9%". Well, we passed it, and unemployment hit 10.4% in early November. Socialism never works. Never has, never will. Incentive is what drives the economy, not government rules.

Torture - yes, torture is bad. The actions of those US guards who sexually mistreated the prisoners are inexcusable. I hope that they get locked up just as much as you do. We both agree on that. HOWEVER, waterboarding is not torture, and I have both international law and the US government backing me up on that one. As for the bomb analogy, if it blows and the interrogator had not taking all available measures to prevent it, then he is also morally responsible. If you could save 3000 lives by pretending to hurt one terrorist (whom we have a right to execute at any time we choose because he was out of uniform), then we should do it without a second thought.

Again, allow me to reiterate: the US government says that waterboarding is not torture, and international authorities say that waterboarding is not torture. Who do you have, screwballs like John McCain?

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

So johnboy, we're idiots because we think?, while you're over there playing follow the leader with the ditto heads and the rest of the narrow minded sheep. You are exactly the same as the far left liberals. You both want to impose your memorized moral values on the rest of us.

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from John L wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

seadog
My "idiots" comment related to those who equate interrogation/torture(if you must) with murder.
If you care to lump yourself in there, that's your choice.
If a captured terrorist/insurgent/or whatever you want to call him has a picture taken with panties on his head, has a dog bark at him, or is made to think we'll drown him, or made to sit or stand for lengthy periods, or forced to listen to BeeGees music for hours, or heaven forbid gets punched in the face, and you want to equate that with those who take any hostage they can (reporters, women,children) and will and have cut their heads off, or cowardly bomb them, then, well, I guess you can be in that category.
I didn't say you did that, but again, it's your choice.
For me, my family, friends, neighbors, and yes, even you, would get my every effort to rescue them from those we are supposed to "understand".

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Yo seadog,

Why do I want to impose my morals on you? Because they're right.

Murder is wrong. Stealing is wrong. Doctoring votes is wrong. Rape is wrong. Lying is wrong. None of us have any problem "imposing these morals on people". Society is based upon imposing morals on people; what do you think laws are?
So, if I think that abortion is murder, I'm naturally going to impose that moral on people. You may think that it is perfectly fine, but you are imposing that moral on the unborn and on me. You can't live life without imposing morals on people; it's just the way things are. Stop whining and get on with life.

You pride yourself on being a moderate, on not totally agreeing with either conservatives or liberals. Well, to quote Thomas More, "Your silence means consent." Doing nothing is a cop-out and a coward's way to play the game. Make up your mind.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

John, Where am I? South Florida, with mangos & alligators right in my backyard (literally). It's 85 degrees outside on Christmas day. I know you mean politically--like I said, free thinker. Not sold on Obama; hated Bush. I'm for civil rights for everyone--mine, yours, & the queer down the street too. If you (you, generic not personal) object to having the moral values of the animal rights wackos imposed on you, then it's hypocritical to insist on imposing your moral values on others. I've got strong moral values, but no desire to impose them on others.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Your morals are weak and you presume to impose them on others. You think hate is a virtue and you lecture me about morals. You think your puny little religion is the "one true faith" and the rest of the world is "bogus." That's exactly what the Catholics say, ducky, you self-rightious little pr!ck. I know you wouldn't have the courage to call me a coward to my face.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Seadog - it's not hypocritical if I'm right. I can have a problem with people who say that murder is A-OK imposing that moral on me, and it's not hypocritical if I impose a law on them to the contrary. Murder is wrong, and I don't care if banning it means imposing morals on others. There is such a thing as absolute truth, you know.

If you have strong moral values, but don't care what other people do, then I question how much you value your morals.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Whatever. At least I have morals that I stand up for. I never said that hate is a virtue; anyway, it's not hate to say that someone is wrong.
Oh wow, you sound like an ancient scientist saying "you think your puny little scientific laws are right, and you presume to say that my astrology is bogus." My puny little religion? I have the same religion as the Founding Fathers who started this whole country, pal. If I didn't believe that it was the one true faith, then I wouldn't be much of a believer, would I? At least I have the backbone to stand up for my faith and not hide behind the guise of "tolerance". Islam is false, Hinduism is false, Buddhism is false, Mormonism is false, and Catholicism is false. The pope is not infallible, Mary is not an intercessor, Purgatory doesn't exist, and the sacraments are bogus.

I wouldn't have the courage? hahaha look, old man, I'm 6'1", I've been a weightlifter for years, and I've trained in krav maga (Israeli streetfighting) and a Russian form of baritsu. You think I'm afraid of you? Think again.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Crimes like murder protect the rights of the victim. That's not imposing morality on anyone. I care a lot about what others do when they interfere with the rights of others. That's why I I favor stronger penalties for crimes with victims and expansion of the castle doctrine. Imposing the morals that some preacher poured into your brain onto others is itself immoral because it interferes with the rights of others. So ducky, you say you're right so that makes you right. Who the F are you? Bin Laden says he's right too. I know he's not right, but I know who he is and you're just some duck killer from BFE.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Ducky says "there's no such thing as absolute truth" but he's so sure that his "truth" is so absolutly correct that it needs to be imposed on all the world and everyone else's views are "bogus." Nice try, hypocrite.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

OK. I'm for laws against socialism because that protects the rights of entreprenuers and businessmen. I'm for laws against abortion because that protects the lives of babies. What's the difference?

Look, I'm not trying to force everyone to join my religion, but I see no need to refrain from saying that I believe that their religion is wrong. What's the problem there?

Why am I right? Because I believe in stuff that actually makes sense. This isn't rocket science, it's 2+2=4 stuff. I can prove everything I believe (which makes me right). Simple, dude.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Ducky said that "there IS such a thing as absolute truth"!!! Try READING my post next time!

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Ducky, you worship the same god as the catholics but they're false??? Your religion traces it's roots back to the catholics. Where did this sudden "truth" come from? Did god come down and say "oops, I was wrong?"

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

I'm still laughing. Seadog tried to paint me a hypocrite by inserting a "no" into my sentence when he quoted me. How low is that??

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Yeah, ducky, I read your post wrong. What you actually said is worse. You presume to know the absolute truth, so you're delusional. Or did god come talk to you. Should I call you Moses?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

My religion does not trace its roots back to the Catholics. It all started when Jesus ascended after the resurrection and the original church was left with the apostles as their spiritual leaders. After Christianity was legalized, some within the church tried a power-grab by claiming the Petrine doctrine gave them the power as mediators to God. The church eventually split on this, with the true believers sticking to what God actually taught and the false believers coming up with popes and sacraments and Purgatory and other tactics to maintain power. (Some genuinely believed in Catholic beliefs, I'm not trying to deny that, but the driving force of many in control was a lust for power.) Eventually things came to persecution by the Catholics through Bloody Mary and the Inquisition and the Church of England (they split off the Catholics but retained the same beliefs). Around this time the Reformation occurred, with the few remaining true believers spreading the faith despite constant persecution, and eventually the Pilgrims (some of the true believers) came over to America for religious freedom.

So it started out with Christianity and then split off into two groups known today as Protestants and Catholics. I'm a Protestant.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

I'm delusional? Uh huh, sure, it sounds like you're just confused. Murder is wrong: that is absolute truth. God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient: that is absolute truth. I just ate dinner: that is an absolutely true statement. What kind of a wacko are you?

Btw, God gave us his Holy Word through the Bible. Geez, I was sure that even Catholics believed in absolute truth! So you aren't sure about your religion after all? That's a big advantage I have over you: I have 100% faith in what I believe.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Ducky, I am very sure about my "religion." I'm not Catholic. I endured 13 years of Catholic education and they failed to brainwash me, as you have been brainwashed. My moral compass is internal, not imposed by the threat of some fictional heaven/hell scenario that even the various protestant sects can't agree on. You've reached an immature level of moral development. You follow; you do not lead. I'm a "wacko" to you because I am self sufficient, deriving my spirituality and morality from an internal process that does not require a santa claus, the devil, or the boogyman. I live by a strict moral code that is driven by the need to do what is right for it's own sake. I have no need to spread the faith because no greedy church stands behind me thirsty for funding to maintain it's existence. I have no need to impose my personal moral standards on anyone else.
Your certainty about your moral superiority and the "absolute truth" of the mythology of your faith are touching in a primitive sort of way. I'm sure the ancient Romans were equally blessed with the certainty of their superiority.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Oh, my bad. When you defend Catholics it throws me off.

SOOOO, basically you are a confused atheist. Wow. SO not impressed. Anyway, going back to absolute truth: if there isn't any, how are you "absolutely sure" that there is no God? How are you absolutely sure that you even exist? How can you be sure of anything if there is no absolute truth?

Putting absolute truth aside, let's talk about atheism. You say you have a "strict moral code". Okay, what makes it moral? What makes "right" right if there is no Higher Being? You say that I follow, instead of leading. How do you lead? You are just following the thousands of atheists that have gone before you who said the exact same stuff. Nice job with the memorized talking points; I've heard it all before.

Oh yes, very touching. (Btw, the Romans prided themselves on their tolerance for all religions and did not believe in "moral superiority". So much for that.) Is the fact that I also believe that 2+2=4 equally touching? In a primitive sort of way, of course?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Religion?

What is Religion?

Religion is put simply is Manmade laws of rituals and fences for one to do and/or to keep one out or in.

_________________________________

Faith?

What is Faith?

Faith is believing in.

_________________________________

You can believe in what Religion you may and with all your rituals and fences following the letter to its core is purely nothing!

_________________________________

Faith?

Faith and having a relationship in what you truly believe in.

_________________________________

I don't like Religion!

I don't believe in Religion!

Religion has done a lot of good and no good!

But the facts are very simple to me!

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior!

For anyone wants salvation must go directly to Him period! One can assist, one can help, one can advise but if that Person or Persons who wants a relationship doesn’t have to go threw no man!

If you want to talk to Jesus, He is listening.
If you been talking and haven’t received an answer, perhaps you haven’t been listening close enough!

________________________________

It's very interesting to know that the Bible has more factual archeological information than any other book.In fact since the 1940's, Archeologist have found lost Cities recovering stories and names found no were else than in the Bible. So tell me my Armchair Theologians, explain that one away! :) <><

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

God gave you a choice

I hope and pray you choose wisely!

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

You assume too much. Because I've reached a higher level of moral development doesn't make me an athiest. But I guess in your narrow minded right wing no god but mine world, it does. My personal relationship with the creator is none of your dam^ business, but I live my morality for all to see. Maybe you do too, or maybe you just profess your faith like the stereotypical hypocritical Christian. I won't judge you on that--I don't know you well enough. I do know plenty of Christians that talk the Jesus & praise the lord sermon 24/7 but their moral compasses are broken. It's not being one of the sheep that makes you good & moral--it's how you live your life. I'll bet my soul on my life. I don't need to know which mythological version of the creator is true--for all I know they're all wrong. Yours would be as good as the next if it weren't for the moral deficiency of feeling compelled (just like PETA) to cram your views down everyone elses throats. Here's what I know for sure: if god is good, then I have nothing to worry about; if god is bad, you & I are both screwed.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

After further consideration, and considering Clay's input, there is a third alternative. Though I don't believe that god is bad (and I hope I'm right), most of the world seems to believe that god is a cruel trickster who would select his "chosen people" and bar all others from his graces. The Jews think they're it; the Catholics claim the same; I'll let the duck speak for himself but it seems he thinks only ducky protestants can go to heaven (or something like that--I know I'm a little irreverent sometimes). Maybe he picked the muslims--Allah forbid. lol If god picked ducky's group, ducky goes to heaven and seamutt is sol.

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from dbarry wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Wow has this gone way off topic. Good article Tom. If you are a hunter or angler and Rush getting cozy with HSUS doesn't bother you, I'm worried.

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from John L wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Yea, Clay shows up again.
Some day I would love to go through your file cabinet, you come up with the best quotes.
Barry, you are right, it sure veered off the topic.
Rush was definitely wrong on this one (and I count myself as a ditto-head) but I don't throw folks under the bus because of one disagreement. Or call them villians (sp?)

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from John L wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

seadog,
We have a common ground. Neither of us thinks the other is an all bad guy. I find a lot of common agreement with your last post, we, none of us, have all the answers. We (me, I, any of us)ain't that smart.
My favorite from the Bible "Love they neighbor as yourself"(or something to that effect).
We can disagree, argue, and "never the twain shall meet" but we cannot allow ourselves to descend to the level of bitterness, hatred or bloodshed going on in so many places in the world.
Anyway, hope that even you isn't SOL.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Back to the subject!

OK has anyone called Rush and asked him what really happened?

So he screwed up perhaps, but I'm not got to ramble on with off with his head!

This reminds me of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi who won a war by nonviolence. Put simply, the way he won is not by beating them on his own land, but in the streets of the invading Army! What he did was great, but the facts are with his beliefs if someone comes into your Country, into your Town, into your Home and takes it by gun point you should hand him the keys and gladly walk out. As you know Winchester, Browning and Smith & Wesson had a better way of dealing with the intruder!

Back to God,

Interesting thing I've noticed those who truly belief in God. They have defined God and went to put God into a Box. Another point of fact is "Divorce" is at the same percentile with Christians than none Christians which proves my case and point.

Take Marriage and God? You go thru rituals of a Marriage Ceremony as those who go thru Baptism and at the end you get a piece of paper showing you have done this so what is missing? All the Rituals and all the Ceremonies and all the Water in the World will not help you a bit without one thing and it’s called a “Relationship”! Since the day Mary and I have known each other we have raised an eyebrow and got into some heated arguments but anger was never an option and put it simply? Our Marriage is like the finest Wine on Earth!

To some Marriage, it’s only a piece of paper and manmade laws and vows.

To some Religion, it’s rituals and ceremonies.
Without a relationship, you broken your promise in Marriage, you failed to own up to responsibility and with Religion you’re just wet!

As I enjoy spoiling my Wife, she enjoys spoiling Me!

For Christmas we didn’t get each other anything, but we still have the greatest gift, EACH OTHER!

Catholic, Hindu or Jewish or whatever you are, your nothing more than just dust in the wind without a relationship!

Of all my Worldwide Travels and all 48 States traveling coast to coast putting on about a million miles the people who I have the most respect in and enjoy the most to be amongst is the Amish! Don't let their black horse and carriages, black cloathes and bowl cut haircuts fool you, they are much smarter than you will ever know.

Why you ask?

I had developed a "RELATIONSHIP" with the Amish,

"A RELATIONSHIP YOU WILL NEVER KNOW NOR UNDERSTAND!"

Relationship, do you know what a relationship is?

HERE'S YOUR SIGN!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

By the way,

Interesting thing I've noticed those who truly belief in God. They have defined God and went to put God into a Box?

You better go back to the closet were you put the box, you will find the box is empty!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

All you have to do is poke the anthill with a stick. I'm having trouble following your arguments here, so you are an Eastern Othadox?
Is the Metropolitan of Kiev your spiritual leader, or is it the Greek Metropole in Athens? You claim not to support the Petrine claim to primacy, so You ain't Catholic, but if you go back before the Petrine thingie, you are in a very gray area. Back then there were Arianist Christians, Manichean Christians, Gnostic Christians, Copts, The Byzantine Orthadoxy and those guys in Northern Iraq still carrying on who firmly believe that John the Baptist was the Messiah.
I will remind you all that the only person to rightfully be accoladed with the title of Shekinah (Savior) by the Jews was Cyrus the Persian. Read the book, there it is, Cyrus the Persian Redeemer of the Jews, restorer of the Temple Treasures. He set the people free!
Duckler, izzat a Wrangler type Jeep (or a Rubicon or a CJ) or one of those Cherokee or Liberty type fake jeeps. I tend to believe firmly that the only true Jeeps are the ones that actually look like actual Jeeps (you know the beloved 4 wheel drive brick shaped vehicle). Anything without enough ground clearance for you to crawl under it and change the oil without ramps is not a "Jeep". If it Ain't got a rollbar (Suitable for mounting potato cannons with the top down) It is either a very old Jeep or it just ain't a Jeep, even if Jeep made it in the first place. Oh and anybody who would get a classic Jeep with an automatic transmission just doesn't understand. So Duckster, are you a True Jeep believer? Or are you one of one of the wannabes in station wagons or (gasp)Land Rovers or (org-) Toyota Land Cruisers and KIA (killed in Action) Monteros!
Admittedly the Rubicons of today are nothing like the original vision from Bantam Motors as actualized By Willys, My middle aged YJ is but a shadow of the original greatness, but It is a Jeep thing...you may not yet truely understand...

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Clay we share a respect for the Amish and the way they walk their talk and prove their faith with their work. I don't believe as they do but I have great respect for their choice of lifeway. Similarly I admire and respect the Dali Lama and the Tibetan Buddhists , but I am not one. I take this course of reasoning, All faiths are true, many religions are false. Faith itself, imposes nothing as it is naught but the pure light of belief in the Higher power. Everyone has the Right to encounter the Divine on their own terms, often Religion interferes with this by imposing limits and putting distance between human beings and the Divine. But across all faiths, certain principles come across- to encounter the Divine, look within, not without. Even if you go on pilgrimage to find God to Mecca, Jerusalem, Compostela, Stonehenge or the top of Everest, it is still from within that the inspiration comes.
Hence my conviction that all faith is a reflection of the Light that enlightens us all, available to every human who seeks it.
Holy Joe, the "prophet" who founded the Mormons had one good idea, All religions bite so start your own. Just don't make the mistake of assuming that God has limits and don't impose your prejudices on faith. God(desses) are a lot bigger than your tiny mind , whoever you are. You may not like this that or the other thing, That's mostly politics, God(desses) are way beyond your tiny planet bound politics. God(desses) mostly, whatever label they get, mostly just want us, their mortal counterparts to be happy and treat each other well. We are talking real humans here, potential or hypothetical humans. Focus on treating real walking talking humans the way you might prefer to be treated and you are on the Right Path. Unless you like being waterboarded, don't advocate it.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

So Duckliver,who taught you that McVeigh and company weren't conservatives? The same people who taught you the KKK were liberals? Old Uncle Adolph Shickelgruber hated the commies as much as he hated Jews, but according to the geniuses who taught you, he's a Liberal? And you see nothing wrong with the credentials of those who educated you? Look, in my wasted girlhood I remember clearly the rep from the John Birch Society giving seminars on how FDR was a commie after Sunday School, but that doesn't mean I would believe such a thing today. Them Birchers, such paragons of liberality. Part of education, that is the process is actually testing what you are taught by cross referencing it, but you don't get an overview by only reading one side of things. Reality doesn't follow a script, either "con" or "lib". Duckliver you have posted some notions that truely make a well educated middle aged lady gasp, with the egregiousness of your miseducation. Some actually think it funny that you might believe such things as you were taught. I myself am a firm believer in Home schooling, we did this for our only daughter, who was dyslexic, when we knew our local school system wouldn't be able to give her any real assistance in learning. But we did our best to bring her up with an independant frame of mind, which she has in spades! We offered her exposure to different religions and different ways of thinking. But it is plain that whoever homeschooled you took opportunity to impose their own prejudices, rather than let you discover your own.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Seadog - OOOOkay. So, you're not an atheist, but you refuse to tell us anything about your belief in God, if it even exists. Nice play.

Anyway, I do not believe that God "selects" certain people. I believe that He opened up a way of salvation for all men, and all we have to do is accept that gift and acknowledge that He is Lord. I am not saying that all protestants go to Heaven, I think we both know that there are many, many hypocrites out there polluting the church.

Here's my theology: God is perfect. He cannot tolerate any sin. But He still gives us the chance to make our own decisions, because if He didn't then we would basically be robots. If a person sins ONCE then they are gone, they have missed the boat and are headed to Hell. God is perfect and He can only tolerate things that are holy. However, to give man a way of salvation, God sent down His Son to earth to live as the perfect man and then die for our sins on the cross; after which He was resurrected in 3 days.

We have all sinned. I don't care how good your morals are, you have sinned and that sin will send you to Hell. However, there is a way out: according to Romans, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." I disagree with the Catholics because the Bible says that you CANNOT EARN your way into heaven; you either accept the gift or you don't.

No, Bella, I'm not Eastern Orthodox or part of any other such group. I'm a non-denominational Christian: I don't align myself with any major Christian denomination, I just go with what the Bible says and I worship on Sundays with a church of other Christians who believe the same way. (Hum, does that classify as free-thinking?)

Cyrus? Oh sure, he let them go back to their homeland (just as was prophesied 200 years earlier by Isaiah.) Not exactly a Savior. Jesus Christ was the only Savior because He was the only one who gave man the option of being saved SPIRITUALLY.

hahahaha sorry, Bella, it's a Liberty...although I can crawl underneath it to change the oil, you have to give me that one! I wanted a Ruby but I just couldn't afford it - I'm one of those guys who pays cash for everything - and my boss offered me a deal on the Liberty so I took it. Sorry to disappoint. What year is your YJ?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Bella - all faiths are not true. There is only one God, and He gave us His teachings through the Bible. No one has a "Right to encounter the Divine on their own terms"; God is all-powerful and it is up to us to encounter Him on His terms.

God doesn't "just want us to be happy", He is JUST. If we sin, we pay the price for our wrongdoing, just like in the real world. Unless we accept God's offer of salvation, of course...

Anyway, God SAYS in the Bible that He is the one true God - so either He's right or He's lying, which is a very un-Godlike thing to do. Which is why I am a monotheist, not a polytheist.

That being said, I share your admiration for the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans, but I also believe that they are wrong. Admirably wrong, yes, but still wrong.

Timothy McVeigh - Ann Coulter taught me that one. You haven't said ANYTHING about them that would make them a conservative, besides saying that they claimed to be. Can we get some evidence here?

KKK - I said SOME OF THEM WERE LIBERALS, not all. You CAN'T polarize a group like that! Get a grip, Bella.

Adolf Hitler - my comments were based upon the fact that they were socialists, which is completely anti-conservative and very liberal. They were also in favor of Big Government, which is again completely anti-conservative and very liberal. They don't fit the complete definition of the modern liberal, but they are scarily close (more than a few people on Obama's cabinet believe in eugenics, if that means anything to you.)

Who are you to say that whoever educated me took the opportunity to impose their own prejudices?!? I suppose you believe that all independent thinkers are liberals, huh? You are anything but a free-thinker: you were raised a Mormon, and you jerked away and hit some other end of the spectrum, where you are now parroting liberal argument after liberal argument. It's not like you are saying anything new, Bella, you are just as much a "parrot" as you make me out to be.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Gee Mr Wizard!

The individual who started family planing and Justice Black of the Supreme Court both were members of the KKK.

Lets see, Family Planing is one of the Liberal Branch's of controlling people were 4 out of 5 aborted are minorities and Justice Black used his power wrongly to control those who appose the KKK.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

We're finding a lot of common ground here. It must be the Christmas magic.
Dukkillr, your views on salvation still leave out most of the world. How are the namomamo in the depths of the Amazon jungle supposed to learn about Jesus Christ to accept him as their lord and savior? And is it fair to expect people born in places where Christianity isn't the dominant religion to evaluate their options and reach the conclusion you reached when their parents and teachers are instructing them in other faiths? Do you really think god is that cruel? I don't.
You can't just force everything into a dichotomy. If you are going to paint everything with a broad brush, you have to accept some of the fringe--some of the gray. You can't just kick the KKK out of the "conservative" club because they aren't good or because one ingredient is a pinch of liberalism. They're right wing racist extremists and you don't agree with them, but they're on your side of the proverbial fence that everyone keeps telling me to get off of. Similarly, if we're talking in terms of black or white, the liberals have to accept PETA, HSUS, the communists, and all their extremist groups. But the real world is never that simple--a true absolute dichotomy is virtually nonexistent. Even wet/dry gets messed up by damp. Liberal/conservative is even harder to clearly define, especially when hate mongers like Rush (remember Rush--this discussion started off about him) deliberately try to distort the definitions so one means good and the other means bad--as in KKK-bad, must be liberal.
I make my decisions and form my opinions based on rational thought. I evaluate facts that are known to me and use logical reasoning to make educated guesses about facts that I do not or cannot know. I do not presume to know the "absolute truth" about anything. To do so is extremely arrogant and immature. No human can know the absolute truth. You can have faith--there's nothing wrong with faith, but if you presume to know the absolute truth about god, you are fooling yourself and demonstrating your arrogance.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Clay, my wife & I didn't buy each other presents this year either. We do some years, but often we don't. She's a very special lady and we have an incredible relationship. I'm happy to hear that you are similarly situated. Having a solid loving and trusting relationship makes life really worth living and makes the problems so much easier to deal with. I wish that for everyone. We had a wonderful family Christmas yesterday. I hope everyone else did too. And, BTW, my wife is so special that she let me travel back & forth to the computer on Christmas day to play with dukkillr. lol Merry Christmas again, dukkillr, I enjoyed including our discussions in my Christmas this year.

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from John L wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Must be something in the "Christmas Magic".
Discussions (as in seadogs last line) have gotten more civil, with less name calling, and a lot more metaphysical.
Keep it up guys, we might be able to hunt/fish together after all.
Feliz Navidad, and Happy Nuevo Anno.
(that's just for you)
By the way, my wife got exactly what she wanted for Christmas (because she went out and got it and wrapped it) and my snowblower broke down, dang. Good thing I've got a good neighbor.
Let's all be good neighbors.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

My goodness!

Is this what you call tit for tat?!?
______________________________________

Anyhow’ what I see what the problem is those of you like many get caught up saying groups like the “KKK” for example are part of the Conservative and/or Christian group which in fact they are not! They say they are, but they are not! Take the Taliban, people call them Islamic Fanatics.

So let me see if I get this right, if a person or persons to do what they say is true according to some “Religion” and to do what the Religion originally says is wrong then does that make that person still part of that religion? NO! The person or persons is using what said religion as FALSE!

Listen, you folks need to get your head out of your armpits and identify and call what it really is. If I put on a gorilla suit and attack someone, then according to what everyone is saying that person was attacked by a gorilla regardless if it was a person in a suit or actually a gorilla. Same thing with Faith and Religion, Nancy Pelosi says she is Catholic and supports abortion while the Pope her Devine leader says it’s an abomination against God amongst other atrocities she has done!

The Ten Commandments is simple to understand and straight forward! Yet there are those who will pick and chose to makeup an Religion like taking pieces out of a box of chocolate and have it their way in their own image to suit their needs.

So don’t come to me saying groups like the KKK is part of a Right Wing Conservative’

“And do not forget the petty scoundrels in this regime; note their names, so that none will go free! They should not find it possible, having had their part in these abominable crimes, at the last minute to rally to another flag and then act as if nothing had happened!”
-From the fourth leaflet of the White Rose Resistance in Germany, 1942. Five students and a professor who wrote and distributed the leaflets were executed in 1943.

Isn’t how interesting how Liberals have always done this!

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Clay, you don't need to get your panties all in a wad ... sorry, let me rephrase that--Clay, the KKK discussion had a lot to do with the silly debate games that dukkillr & I were playing and very little to do with the substance of our disagreement. We all agree that the KKK is evil (if I'm wrong, please keep it to yourself--if you want to express that viewpoint, go ahead, but I can assure you I will resort to name calling of a nature that you haven't heard from me yet). The klan is certainly not mainstream conservative and it does not represent the views of typical Christian conservatives in any way. Dukkillr made an assertion in the heat of our discussion that the klan is liberal. He apparently (I won't speak for him) based this assertion on some (genuine, I believe) klan statements regarding "redistribution of wealth" and some other klan propaganda that appears to have a liberal slant to it. By tacit agreement (that means I didn't object--actually I called the rules cheap ... but I played anyway) I agreed to the "ducky rules" of debate--so I was required by the rules of the game to counter. I dislike the ku klux klan as much as the duck but the KKK is certainly not liberal by any stretch of the immagination. The klan's plan for wealth is to redistribute it back to white protestants--that's liberal? Try running with that theory & see how far it gets you. If you insist on a dichotomy, the klan is far right. I don't see the world in such simple terms. The KKK should be a non-issue, but now, with a half-black president, suddenly right wing racist extremists are back in the picture. You can't disown them if you divide the entire world into "liberals" and "conservatives" with no room for rational distinctions. I dislike labels but I'm not the one insisting on using them. I do not label myself as liberal or conservative but in this forum I am branded as a "liberal" according to the "infallable" dictate of the almighty Rush (LMAO), who in his divine majesty, has rewritten the dictionary for all his ditto heads to follow.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

God isn't cruel - He's JUST. He doesn't have to save anyone, but He chooses to give everyone the option. As for the namamamos in the Amazon, it's not like the Bible was only written in English until the 1900s: the original Christian church was persecuted and spread out to all parts of the world. You don't need the whole Bible to get saved, you just need to know about the salvation message.

Btw, I'm not pretending to be any type of expert on how God works, before the Bible was written down God had many different ways of communicating Himself to people. The bottom line is, God will ensure that everyone has a chance to come to salvation through Him. As far as "is it fair...", no, life isn't fair. BUT, everyone does get a chance.

KKK - okay, I'll admit that some of them do have conservative beliefs. I'm still contesting whether or not they fall onto the conservative side of the fence as a group, though. Btw, if you're trying to say that Rush says that everything bad is liberal, then I'm saying that Matthews, Letterman, Couric, and most of the MSNBC anchors say the same thing about the conservatives as well. (CNN is somewhat moderate, although their anchors definitely have leftist leanings.) Letterman's a perve, anyway.

It's not arrogant and immature to profess to know absolute truth! Barack Obama is president of the United States: that is absolutely true! How am I being arrogant here? Jehovah God SAYS that He is the only true God, and I'm not being arrogant/immature to believe what He says. If what you said was true, then we'd all be agnostics.

Aww, that's so sweet of your wife! Anyway, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

KKK (In response to seadog's last post, the one I wrote before it was to his previous ones) - redistribution of wealth PERIOD is liberal. I don't care if it's for white Protestants, conservatives are against ANY forced redistribution of wealth. ROW is a totally liberal standpoint.

AND, I was not the one to "dichotimize" them! Bella started it by referring to "white-supremacy groups" as conservatives, at which point I said that they were more liberal than conservative. Anyway, I'm agreed: they're a non-polarizable gray group. Can we move on here?

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

To John L, I think we would get along just fine hunting together. I am certainly not unaware that most people don't think just like me.
To all, the interests we share are much more important than those that divide us. As Americans we are one, even though we may disagree on the best path to take. As hunters, fishermen, and outdoorsmen(&women), we are "family" in many ways. I'm proud to be a part of this family, including those of you with whom I disagree.
This is about as touchy-feely as I get with anyone except my wife, so I'm going to sign off before I get the urge to growl at somebody.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Snowed and stranded, somewhere else. I'm sure you have heard of the storm from Canadian border down to Texas. I've got snow to move. I have read only acouple posts from where I left off days ago. Maybe I get back to it, maybe I won't. I'm sure I might have something to say but will not cover everything you guys have talkedabout ,(You've been busy.) I'm dukkillr has held his own as he always sticks to the facts.
Later...........................

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

I am highly amused that a certain young man thinks he has access to the whole ultimate truth of the universes. Gee even the folks at CERN in Switzerland don't have that.
Didja ever read "Hamlet", well "there are more things, young Horatio, in Heaven and Earth than are dreamed of by your philosophies" (Shakespeare) Did anybody ever teach you about Hubris? Lookitup!
Clay, while the 10 commandments were fine for 2000BCE, today they kinda fall short. I'm certain that if the commandment about covetuosness were observed we'd live in a better world, but that one is universally ignored by corporate capitalists. And the two things Fundies scream loudest about aren't mentioned. Is the commandment "don't be queer" number 11, 12 or 13? How about the
"Don't get Abortions" commandment. Were those in the hundred or so commandments that got edited out after the "Golden Calf" digression?
Also with the "thou shalt not kill" commandment (sometimes interpeted as thou shalt do no murder), how does that go along with Joshua exterminating the Bethelites and a dozen other Caananite peoples. Is it actually saying, "Don't murder other Hebrews, but everyone else is fair game"?
I am going to repeat for Duckliver my simple cult evaluation system. If it claims to be the sole repository of Truth, it isn't because THAT is Hubris. Therefore any "Faith" that claims to be the sole true religion is a false religion, because the assertion is implied that would put limits on the Gods. in the other words if you claim to be a know it all, you are a liar, because you couldn't possibly know "it all". I have studied all kinds of things for many years and I know that the more I learn the more I find out their is to learn. So any person, or by extension institution, that claims to know it all is either close minded, deceitful or self deluding. Please try, as I do, to continue to learn it all, but never assume you know it all. Perhaps Ducky, you may attain mastery in something as you mature, but even that achievement will only be one thing.
There is truth in Buddhism, truth in Islam, Truth in the myths of the Dog Star told by the Dogon and truth in Zen. Thoth taught truth to men, as Prometheus stole the fire and Dragons really actually flew in Jurassic skies. There are creatures in the woods and things in the Deeps known yet but to the Gods and as we bless the Gods for our very beings, so do other beings on other worlds we cannot ken, but again, known but to the Gods. So what do you know Duck? You claim to have accumulated more wisdom in less than 20 years than I have garnered in 50+? You young people are soo funny sometimes, remember, pride goeth before a fall.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

And remember Ahknaten loves you!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Oh and Duck, 'cause you were kind enough to ask, My '93 Jeep YJ says "Renegade" but that was just a body kit, it is basicly a Wrangler.
I got it secondhand from a neighbor and I have had to do (and have done) a lot of replacement parts. Exaust, Shocks, brakes, u-joints, transmission, 2 windshields, 2 waterpumps, radiator, headlights and other random bits, but I'll keep on putting it back together till the frame is rusted beyond use. I never have liked gettin all greasy and gettin' dirt in my hair crawling under my old 4 wheeler, but I like bein' helpless and stuck by the road waitin' for some man to rescue my butt even less, so I work on my Jeep. At least it is a Jeep, which means it was designed to be repaired in the field (at least with the originals). Not a lot of vehicles are intended to be repaired by owners these days, I may never get another vehicle, if I can keep the one I like going. I ain't no shrinkin' violet, no delicate flower either. One does what one hasta do.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Duck, we agree on what's important about the ku klux klan. They don't represent you as a conservative; they don't represent me as a Southerner; and their views are immoral. I'll even go so far as to say that their version of Christianity is "bogus."
Sorry to nitpic, but I want to address one of your other side comments. The term "redistribution of wealth" is ordinarily associated with socialism, but the words redistribution of wealth have a much broader meaning. Ronald Reagan and Republicans since Reagan, with help from many Democrats, have succeeded in redistributing wealth from the middle class to the "uber-wealthy." Ergo, redistribution of wealth is not necessarily "liberal." I am vehemently opposed to Castro Cuba style socialist redistribution of wealth. I am a capitalist. But unregulated capitalism, with laws favoring consolidation of wealth in the hands of a few, is also an evil that we should fighting against.

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from John Stephens wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Obama should have won villain of the year simply for appointing Cass Sunstein as regulatory Zar, Tzar, Czar. Do you really want that nit-wit regulating your guns and hunting?

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from SAND BAGGER wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

MAN! I KNEW SOMETHING STINKS, I SEE YOU GUYS STILL RIDING BELLA'S DONKEY I SEE!

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from SAND BAGGER wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

SHE BE TAKING YOU BOYS FOR A RIDE! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella - I didn't say I know all the truth there is to know, but I do say that I know some certain truths about God: there is only one, He is omnipotent, omnipresent, etc...

FYI, the commandment against gays is number 7, and the commandment against abortion is number 6.

The "thou shalt not kill" commandment, number 6, does mean "thou shalt not murder", if you look at the original Hebrew word in which it was written. This is simple stuff, Bella.

Being a monotheist does NOT involve putting any limits on God, since that would be impossible for us to do. The only God who can be proven to exist is the God of the Bible, which is why I'm sticking with Him. I DON'T KNOW IT ALL, by a very very long shot...but I do know some things to be absolutely true.

The other gods are lies, myths, and fairy tales. All of them. Yes, there may be some truth in the different religions - for instance, Islam teaches that there is only one God as well - but the religions themselves are false. If all the religions were true, then all the gods of the monotheistic religions would be blatant liars. There is only one God.

Let me make something clear, Bella - you are wiser than I am in many different areas, just by virtue of the age difference. I don't pretend to even come close to knowing an inkling of all there is to know. HOWEVER, I do know some things to be absolutely true, such as the existence of Jehovah God. How is that being arrogant?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Whoa whoa whoa, seadog - I'm glad to see that we agree on the KKK, but as for redistribution of wealth I think we have a little bit of equivocation going on here. Redistribution of wealth (at least the modern definition) means that the government takes wealth from part of the population (whether it be through taxes or any other means) and then gives it to another part (through welfare, tax rebates, etc). Letting those who earn money keep what they earn is NOT redistribution of wealth. For instance, if a wealthy businessman earns 5 million dollars one year, and would ordinarily pay 2 million dollars in taxes, and the government passes a law letting him keep an extra million and only pay 1 million in taxes, that is not ROW. That is merely letting him keep what he earns.

I partially agree with your ending line: unregulated capitalism CAN BE an evil, like anything else it can be abused, but it is NOT NECESSARILY an evil.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

dukkillr-
I just read your last post to Bella. Do not say she is wiser in different areas as she clearly hasn't shown it. She does not know facts like you do, and she doesn't know the definitions of political terms. She also gets things turned around about what liberals and conservatives stand for (e.g. who is for gun rights, who isn't.) My god, she thinks conservatives want fascism and corporations are evil!!! They employ millions of people.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Wyatt - I'm not saying that she's wiser than me politically or socially, but I'm also not blind enough to say that I'm on the same maturity level as a 50 year old. Despite how much I disagree with a person, if they've been on this earth for over twice as long as I have, the odds are that they are wiser in at least some areas due to experience and other things like that. Thanks for the commendation, though!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Wyatt - I'm not saying that she's wiser than me politically or socially, but I'm also not blind enough to say that I'm on the same maturity level as a 50 year old. Despite how much I disagree with a person, if they've been on this earth for over twice as long as I have, the odds are that they are wiser in at least some areas due to experience and other things like that. Thanks for the commendation, though!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

dukkillr

The "Fair Tax Plan"?

Know what it is?

Basically eeryone keeps 100% of there ernings and when they buy something is when tax is levied. Also all the US Curenc setting in off shore accounts would come back to the US Banks.

Curent tax laws works like this, lets say you and the Wife go to the Outback Steak House who busted your butts and saved to go there. Some person (IRS)wants that 16oz Prime Rib for themselves will walkup and say, I want a portion of your steak. You say no, they go get a bunch of people with guns and will shoot you if you don't!

Since the age of currency, Government has setfourth Tax Colectors not to gather Taxes, but to control the "PEOPLE"!

It's also interesting to know how rich those on Capital Hill have accepted a job that pays a fraction of what they make each year.

WHY IS THAT!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Clay, your "fair Tax plan" based on sales tax is extremely regressive and puts the burden of financing government on those who can afford it least, rather than those who benefit the most.
Wealthy people can eat no more than poor folk, and one can buy only soo much stuff, so thinking a solely sales based tax system would support Government doesn't add up.
I agree with the notion of prohibiting off shore banking, basing corporate headquarters overseas (for American Companies) should also be prohibited, as that is a favorite money laundering ploy. A massive tax on campaign contributions by corporations, coupled with limits on how much an individual can contribute would also be a good idea. I get real tired of corporate interests buying elections and representation. People should be doing the contributing and voting, not for profit organizations trying to tip the scales in their favor.
I also like the notion that no corporation should pay it's president or CEO more than the POTUS does. How much does a man need? Does anybody deserve all they can get?
Remember the old Cossack story about the man who did a service for the Cossack Chief and was rewarded with all the land he could walk about in a day. The man set out and walked in a tremendous circle, encircling thousands of acres only to die with a heart attack at the feet of the Cossacks. They then awarded him all the land he really needed, six feet by three feet (and six deep). He killed himself with greed.
I recently withdrew all my funds from Bank of America and put 'em in a credit union. I did so out of disgust with the way B of A has meddled in politics and it's part in the recent financial crisis. I figured I just don't want to invest a dime with them anymore, their CEO pays himself so obscenely that I cannot imagine what possible service he could render mankind for that level of compensation. He can't raise folks from the Dead, he can't create anything (tangible), he is just an officious dude in an expensive suit who is very very good at looking out for himself. But I ain't paying that particular bozo any more. The BofACEO is one of very few who benefited handsomely from the financial crisis and may have had a part in causing the disaster, he don't deserve squat! I never picked B of A in the first place, I had another bank (that I liked) that was bought by another bank, that was bought by another bank, that was bought by Bank of America. I never had any say in it but to pull my money, and now I have done that. Credit unions are smaller, safer and are lending money today, as they operate under different rules than banks.
I pay my taxes with a smile and on time, always. Taxes are the rent you pay to live in society. Frankly I think those who benifit the most from living in a free, secure society should be willing to pay for what they get. But wealthy people don't get that way by being generous or paying their bills on time. People get rich these days largely be manipulating other peoples money, not by making things or helping people. But too many people seem to think they can get by making money on promises and sleight of hand financial dealings. The whole credit default swap shell game...any fool knows you only win at 3 card Monte when the dealer wants you to win and only the dealer and his shill stand to make any moolah. Capitalism is about producing things and selling them. Con games are about deludeing people and fleecing them. Our present economy has become about the con games and not about creation. People have been hurt baad by the Madoffs and the Kenny Lays. We waste too much money paying big subsidies to corporations who need the assistance far less than many ordinary Americans who are loosing their jobs and trying to keep roofs over their heads. Greed is not a virtue, it never was and never will be. The greedy got the rules changed so they could work scams on the rest of us with tax dollars at stake. Laissez Faire Capitalism is a bad joke. It used to be that all business licences were only issued if they worked for the public good. We need that simple principle of the public good restored. We are individuals who live in communities, without community we have no culture, no security and no customers either. Andrew Selkirk may have been able to live alone in isolation on Juan De Fuca Island (inspiring Robinson Crusoe) with only goats for company and sustainance but he was totally insane when they found him, having even lost the ability to speak coherently. Humans need each other, and one function of government has always been to keep people from exploiting and abusing each other. Abusers and exploiters often object to regulation that cuts into their ill gotten gains or calls them on their ways of getting their jollies. It is right and good for the strong to succor the weak, and wrong for the strong to terrorize the helpless. It is right and good for those who have in abundance to share with those who suffer from want. It is wrong for the wealthy to use their assets to marginalize and abuse the poor. There will always be poor folk, but we don't need to live in a society where poverty is a agonizing death sentence.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella - I see what you are saying, but the problem with your theory is that you put too much trust in the Federal Government. When you give the Federal Government the responsibility of deciding "how much does a man need?", then the party in charge is going to favor its constituents and shortchange its opponents.

There is only one reason we come up with new and better medicines, technology, cars, etc: rich people wanting to get richer. If they had no desire to gain more wealth (or if they were prevented from gaining more wealth), then they would have absolutely no reason to invest in any new projects. People don't deserve all they can "get", but they do deserve all they can earn. It is this mindset that has made the United States as great as it is. If Sam came up with a brilliant new idea, and he started a company based upon that idea, and started earning 300 million dollars a year, he should be allowed to keep that money. He earned it. What's happening now is that the FedGov is coming to Sam and saying "Look, Sam, I know you earned that money, but poor Bill over here has been working hard his entire life in a fast food restaurant and he doesn't have anything close to the amount of money that you have. So, we are going to tax you 30% of your earnings and redistribute that to Bill and anyone else who we think needs it..."

That is what's going on with your progressive income taxes. It's legalized robbery, plain and simple.

You say "it used to be that all business licenses were only issued if they worked for the public good". (When exactly did this happen, btw?) In a utopian society that might work, but not in this world of politics and underhanded dealings. If you give the FedGov the responsibility of determining which business "work for the public good", then eventually they are going to deny licenses to all their opponents and grant licenses to all their constituents. It's human nature. We CANNOT give the government that amount of control over our economy and expect it to improve.

As a closing thought, where have these socialistic economic practices ever worked before? Nowhere. England, France, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Canada...all these countries have implemented these ideas, and they all have a much higher poverty rate than the capitalistic United States. Your ideas might have worked in a utopia, but they definitely do not work in the corrupt world that we live in.

Without the incentive of keeping what you earn, all initiative to explore and be an entreprenuer would be lost, and that would destroy our economy even more. We must make decisions based upon cold logic, not emotions.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Actually most cutting edge research is done in universities by Grad students squeaking by on stipends. If you ever get into college you'll witness this firsthand. Anything good is scooped by Big Pharma, but that isn't what the motivator is, for the grad student it is the thesis that will earn them the doctorate that will get them the grants and the grad students to work for them. Big pharma has historicly been reluctant to work on new drugs for any population they can't expect to make a profit on. So you wind up with aphrodesiacs (viagra), hair loss remedies, anticholesterol drugs you can't stop taking, expensive toxic toenail fungus remedies and other inane but profitable "drugs". You cannot have the profit motive being the highest ideal of health care! Doctors have to swear a Hyppocratic Oath, but neither Drug Manufacturers nor HMOs make any such committment to ethics or compassion. Also Big Pharma is continually using it's financial power to try to manipulate government and secure future markets. Using graft to secure marketshare is not capitalism. Beyond this Big Pharma has made many efforts to manipulate regulations to prohibit herbs and natural medicines that are sometimes the only remedies available to folks who can't afford or don't want the artificially colored petrochemical products marketed as medication by unfeeling multinationals. A few years ago Big Pharma tried to impose regulations that would have made sale and use of common herbal remedies illegal. They tried to ban chapparal, ephedra and even dandilion in a blatent attack on natural medicine practice on the basis that plant medicines in use for thousands of years were somehow untested or unproven. The real goal of course was elimination of competition, which is also Not capitalism at all.
Actually plant medicines are daily being discovered in wild places all over the world, usually by ethnobotany grad students interviewing elderly aboriginals and collecting samples for analysis in university labs thousands of miles away. It makes a case in point of the neccessity for the preservation of wild places like the Amazon or the Tongass wilderness as well as genetic and cultural diversity all over the planet. But if you think the basic research is being done by Wyeth or Astra pharmaceutical you are sadly misinformed. Hang around academia a bit and you'll have a clue how new ideas are really generated.
As far as trusting the government goes, when the government is transparent, rather than secretive and open rather than coercing, why not trust them? I didn't trust Dubya because his administration was secretive, deceptive and unconcerned with ethics. Obama's administration has had none of these traits. Even when things I don't like have been done openly. Besides Government by, for and of the people. We are supposed to be the government. Do you not trust yourself to govern yourself? Fairness is an American principle but again and again I see republicans attempting to eliminate, emasculate or co-opt the regulatory agencies commissioned to safeguard the public good. The notion that financial deregulation frees the hands of business to create jobs has been soo exposed as self serving deception for the benefit of the financial sector.
As far as the incentive to keep what you earn, does being a hamburger flipping drone at the local scottish clown restaurant supposed to be incentivising?
I'm not objecting to entrepreneurs. A friend of mine works for Dean Kamen, (now he's an entrepreneur). The parasites I object to are those suit wearing parasites (Kamen wears nothing but blue denim) who invent nothing and produce nothing, yet think they deserve millions of dollars a year because they know how to play 3 card Monte with stocks, commodities futures hedge funds and currency manipulations. I am for pay being according to work, not whim.
As far as incompetents, indigents, the incapacitated and the infirm, when you give a stipend to those who can't work so they don't suffer or starve you are maintaining an equitable just society. Remember nearly everybody has an elderly relative who depends on Social Security for their income, would you really countenance eliminating such a program that makes life possible for so many million retired folks who can't work anymore and have nothing else? Before you say they should have saved or gotten a pension, remember how corporate raiders have dismantled industrial America and looted pension plans whenever possible? If your future pension was stolen, how do you think you'd cope? Trust the Government? A far better bet than say, trusting an insurance company or a corporate raider. A lot of folks have no option but to trust the government... Did you trust the Government when Dubya was in charge? Why? And you don't now that Obama is our elected leader? Because you didn't vote for him? He swore the same oath that Dubya did and I think so far he is doing a far better job of keeping it than Dubya and his corrupt cronies did.
You guys are always accusing me of getting things backwards, but I think you "dittoheads" have had incongruities repeated at you so often by shills like Rush that I think your synapses must be disrupted. Just because some loudmouth screams something over and over and over again that doesn't make it true. Between Rush. Beck, Hannity and O'Reilly all I see is repetitive blowhard shills. If Rush is your role model no wonder you have the opinions you do. Waterboarding not Torture! Suuure, why don't you try it and see how pleasant it is.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Oh by the way, recent revelations from the Republican front seem to show that the united front of the Republican party with regard to health care legislation has nothing to do with health care and everything to do with trying to prevent Obama from accomplishing anything that might make the president look good. Petty partizanship coupled with the blatent attempt to block anything that would prevent the Healthcare Extortionists from continuing to fleece the American people. They serve their paymasters well.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella- I see you went off your medication again.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella

As usual you don't have a clue what you're talking about!

Typical Liberal BS!

O” THE RICH SO EVIL PEOPLE!

I tell you what Bella, go work for someone who is broke!

Let's see, two minus three equals plus 5!

Ya’ that’s it!

Why work said one individual, the Government will take care of me!

If I remember right back was it 78 or 79, a storm front with tornados touched down in the Shreveport Louisiana area. One of the local TV news stations showed this Black Guy first in line for food and handouts was asked how bad the storm hit his house. My house is fine he responded I’m just here for the food and my share of the handouts!

GO FIGURE!

WHY WORK!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella one more thing, I’m in the health care field and nobody has gone without their medications. It’s very simple, any Physician contacts a Pharmaceutical Manufacturer and if the medication is just, that individual receives meds for free! For those who went without medication never made it known to their Doctor they needed it and let’s give credit to the charity organizations paying for their hospital needs.

So stop with the victim mentality and get your facts straight!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella - sure some of the research is done by grad students, but getting the new meds past prototype usually still requires some help from pharmaceutical companies and/or wealthy entreprenuers and speculators.

Obama's administration is transparent?? I didn't think you were that naive. In what? Sure, he's claimed to be naive, but let's look at what he's done so far:

Stimulus Bill - the Obama admin started out by claiming that, for the purposes of transparency, they would allow the American people 11 days to review the finished stimulus package before they held a vote. Admittedly, I was a little naive here too: I actually believed them. Well, what actually happened? They finished the bill around midnight and held a vote first thing the next morning - giving the congressmen less than 8 hours to read the 1100+ page bill before voting on it. Sneaky is the operative word here, not transparent.

Climate Bill - this was even worse. In case you don't remember, there were around 7 Democratic congressman opposed to the original bill, which would have given the GOP enough votes to successfully oppose it. Well, just when it looked that the bill wasn't going to pass the House, the "transparent" Obama administration called for a two-week break before the vote. During that break Obama and many of his advisors met personally with each of these Democrats (and this was reported on CNN and MSNBC as well as Fox, so I'm not being a theorist here) and after the break they all voted for the bill - which now contained special provisions for each of their districts. Yes, the admin was "transparent" here...they transparently bought the votes. If that isn't low, I don't know what is.

Recovery.gov - this is another personal favorite of mine. Obama started this website to promote "transparency" in the government, so that the American people could see exactly how their tax dollars were being spent and how many jobs were being saved. Well, just a few weeks ago the Obama admin admitted that the website was not giving out the correct information: they had left out many different areas in which the stimulus money was being spent (seriously, how does buying condoms to distribute in homeless shelters stimulate the economy?) and they had messed up on their jobs saved numbers as well - in fact, they had over-estimated by over 60,000 jobs. THEN it came out that they were counting people who got raises as having their jobs saved, further doctoring the numbers! And get this: if they had come out and admitted this BY THEMSELVES it might have qualified as transparency, but they didn't. It took some economic researchers who actually went out and checked the numbers on this website and then made the Obama admin look ridiculous in some interviews for Obama to confess that his people had screwed up. This isn't transparency, this is deceitfulness.

Healthcare Bill - another good one! The same thing happened here that had happened with the Climate Bill - Obama had some Democratic opposition, so they postponed the vote long enough for him to strike sweetheart deals with the dissenters. Graft, plain and simple.

And finally, who can forget how they tried to shut down FoxNews? Even the liberals had a problem with that move! For the first time in recorded history, a presidential adminstration stooped low enough to personally try to shut down a legitimate news agency (in fact, the most popular news agency in the US). If CNN and the other big news agencies hadn't stepped in and protested, who knows what could have happened? Your beloved president went on an all-out assault on free speech...just because those speaking disagreed with him.

Why do I not trust the government? For the same reason that the Founding Fathers did not trust the government (even when they controlled it): politics. They instituted CHECKS AND BALANCES for a reason, and now the liberals are trying to eliminate them. It is recklessly naive to trust ANY administration, Republican or Democrat, and the Founding Fathers knew it. I take my cues from them.

Financial deregulation ALWAYS works, and I have history on my side. What do you have to support yours? PBS?

Well, maybe the hamburger flipping drone should take night classes (like many hard-working Americans do) and then try to get a real job and better himself. Even if he stayed with his current job, if he worked better than everyone else he would be bound to get noticed and start moving up the chain of command. If you do your best at whatever your job is, you will succeed.

I think Clay handled the medical part pretty well. BTW, Dubya was never in charge, I don't know where you get that notion. Anyway, going back to Obama's "transparency", I think it's very telling that a majority of Americans now want him out of office...after only his first year. The only way he got elected was by Chicago-style deceitfulness, and the Americans are getting tired of it. The GOP has the next congressional elections in the bag, and if they can run a viable candidate for president in 2012 then Obama will be a one-term president. (No less an authority than Angelina Jolie said so!!! hahaha)

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Sorry, I meant to say "sure he claimed to be transparent", instead of saying he meant to be naive. Sorry about that.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Recent revelations? Tripe.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella

For someone suppose to know it all and doesn't know ROK from BFE and truly believes all of this Liberal BS of propping up and encouraging people to think they are not responsible for there own actions, have you ever thought to stop and look at the States who are now flat broke like California and New York? It's a microcosm of what America will look like under Liberal Democratic control!

황소 두엄의 충분히 당신!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Awesome point Clay! Yes, look at California - they've gone bankrupt because of socialistic economics! How obvious is that?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

dukkillr

When was it? two months ago Mary and I was at a local restaurant and the waiter could pass as one of Bella kins praising Obama and how he is punishing the rich with taxes. When I received the bill I held up a ten dollar bill and said, since I'm one of those so called rich folks and you want this ten bucks to go towards taxes, then you don't knead it as a tip! I politely put no tip and brought the balance down and signed the bill, smiled and we walked out. About 3 years ago at Subway, one of the Employees was basilica saying the same thing, the rich should pay. When she finished ringing everything out, I asked for the Manager who was standing there listening I said, your absolutely right and I believe your boss should pay for this and I walked out!

A stinker I am, but I'm not going to put up with there BS!

By the way on both, I went back later and both had a serious change of attitude! I gladly paid for my Subway and the waiter got his ten dollar tip! What did the waiter tell me to deserve the tip, "FAIR TAX PLAN" he herd about on the Neil Boortz Radio Show out of Tulsa Oklahoma!

Imagine that!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Ducky I am amused to see youy admit that Dubya wasn't in charge. Well he took the oath, it was plain he wasn't in charge, But He was Supposed to be!
I see part of the problem here, you republicans are not interested in governing yourselves, you want to be represented and not have to bother with such annoyances as governance. I am into democracy, myself. I am into doing my own governance. But you still have to trust someone, I guess you'd rather trust liars with their fingers in the till to "represent" you than have an administration that actually states its committment to transparency and open government.
Perhaps you really wanted Cheney, Cheney, Rove and Limbaugh are so similar they must be related. Is obese, bald with tiny little piggy eyes poking out from rolls of rancid bacon smelling sweaty flesh your physical ideal.
Oh the rich should pay taxes. The poor have no money!
There was a system where the rich paid no taxes in the past. It was called fudalism. The King owned all the land and gave it out to Nobles as feifs, who managed it and oversaw the serfs (who worked the land and paid the taxes in kind). The nobles job was to provide armed forces to fight the kings wars. But the Divine Right of Kings went with Charlies Head (thank you Cromwell). These days the rich you would make nobles don't usually want anything to do with the military (they could die!) they would much rather have the poor folks both pay taxes and go to war for them. Or did you notice how none of your conservative heros ever served. (well Dubya goofed off in the Texas Air National Guard, not showing up for half his formations, fortunately the VietCong didn't invade Texas). Cheney and others had "other things" to do.
Clay you need to get the Calvinism out of your brain. John Calvin taught that the rich were the "visible elect" with their riches as evidence of their blessed state. Yeshua said however "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." Yeshua said "Blessed are the meek" and "blessed are the poor". Calvinism is people deluding themselves they can buy their way into the afterlife. Clay you seem to be infected with Calvinism and you should get your head out of the 16th century. Go talk to the Amish, if they'll talk to you, their tradition dates from Calvins time. They remember and will set you right on this "blessed are the rich" heresy you seem to have locked into. How many wealthy Amish do you know? (Other than in acreage).
Torturing the poor waitron, was just wrong Clay, But I guess you've never waited tables. But then the most rapacious greedy self centered Americans are the ones you wish to emulate most, so one shouldn't be suprised that you would abuse service personelle because they have the umbrage to voice an opinion. But you guys hate any free speech that disagrees with your fuedal agenda.
By the way a gratuity at a restaurant is 15 to 20%, Nice of you to eventually tip so well, even if you did decide to try to make political points with it.
Ducky obviously you wrote your own Bible, Neither the 6th nor the 7th commandments have anything to do with either homophobia or a women's right to choose. Again whoever taught you wanted to raise you up as a little clone of all their prejudices. The 6th is about murder the 7th is about adultery. Neither Abortion nor Homosexuality is mentioned at all. I can understand how you and others might want to read your petty prejudices into the Bible, but that just ain't what it says! That is kinda like saying the injunction against covetuosness forbids advertising! Go focus on loving your fellow man like Yeshua told you to Christians! That obese fart Limburger is no example of how to love your fellow man! (Tom of Finland MAYBE, but definately not Rush).

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella - Bush was in charge, not Dubya. Or is this another one of your pet conspiracy theories?

Um, yeah, we do like to be represented. Which is why America is a Republic guaranteed by the Constitution rather than a Democracy. The Founding Fathers DESPISED democracies, they knew that if everyone had an equal vote that it would turn into mob rule.

Sure, the Obama admin "stated its commitment to transparency and open government". And they lied, like most Democrats. Show me where they have been transparent!

More later, I've gotta drive my mom to the doctor's...

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Oh and Clay I was in the ROK for a year, I can say please and thank you in Korean and that's about it. Are you using "cut and paste" to try to give the impression you can read and write in Korean? If so what would the point of that be?
And the thing with the requirement that corporations serve the public good was 19th century, but still a good idea. Of course if you or the Republican party had any notion of the public good- you wouldn't be criticizing and stonewalling any effort to pass decent legislation without offering any rational alternatives. So tell me what this Republican National Health policy might be because your congresspeople ain't said word one about any alternative to the Democratic plan, They are just focussed on stonewalling the Dems without offering a plan at all. Americans pay three times what people in other countries do for health care, largely because misnamed for profit organizations referred to as HMO's have insinuated themselves into the health care process. Republicans have received richly of graft from these so called HMO's and like hogs at the troth they don't want the slop to end. Dubya got some co-operation out of Democrats when he was supposedly in charge, but the Repugs are just constipating government at present. A Pox on them. They should do the job taxpayers pay them for and not lobbists out of "K" street. But no, they are owned by multinational corporations with no allegiance to America or any principles but financial gain. A Pox on them.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella- You accuse the conservatives of have their hands in the till but over history, the democrats always spend much, much more than conservatives do. .How do you explain the 2 plus trillion dollars the democrats have spent in one year.I SAY AGAIN- Conservatives believe in LESS government, LESS taxes. Liberals believe in BIG government, MORE taxes.Taxes always go up when dems are in control. This is how the liberals pay for all their socialistic programs (including the socialistic health care reform.) By the way, that health care reform is unconstitutional. It is taking a freedom of americans away. The right to choose for themselves if they want health insurance. NOW the government is going to require everyone to have it. They should be thrown out off office for not upholding their oath of office when they try to pass this unconstitutional bill.
The oath of office is to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution of the United States of America. They clearly don't do that.
You listen to much liberal news. It is fully ingrained into your very being.
I've run out of time.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

By the way dukkillr and Clay- I agree with everything you guys are saying, well done. Please feel free to respond to Bellas' hate-mongering spewing as I won't be able to. I read the posting but can't take time to post much anymore. (I do have to live with her and have to keep her happy you know.)

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I'm back! Bella, in response to the rest of your post, I'm picking up after Dubya, at the part where you said "did you notice how none of your conservative heroes ever served". What? Oh sure, like you have a lot of liberal war heroes: Bill Clinton was a DRAFT-DODGER who fled to Canada, and John Kerry served for six months in Vietnam, "accidentally" hurt his own self to get out, and then lied about his service to get a medal. Both those men had disgraceful military records, I don't care who's side they were on. There are many, many more conservative war heroes than liberals; especially since the majority of liberals oppose America fighting to defend herself anyway.

I'm not a Calvinist so I'm not responding to that point.

Commandment number 6 deals with murder, and the Bible states several times that anyone who kills a pregnant woman (no matter how far along) has committed two murders, so according to the Bible abortion is murder since it kills unborn children. Commandment number 7 deals with adultery, so if you sleep with someone you are not married to then you have broken the 7th commandment. Furthermore, the Bible goes on to say that homosexuals "shall not enter the kingdom of heaven", so there goes that. Abortion breaks the 6th, and homosexuality breaks the 7th.

Without offering any rational alternatives? Bella, the libs were saying that weeks ago, and the Republicans made a point of offering OVER 6 DIFFERENT PLANS to Congress, all of which were ignored by the partisan, free-speech killing Democrats.

Yes, Americans pay for their healthcare...and they get 10 times better treatment than any other country. No country that offers free healthcare has quality healthcare, and the Republicans know this, which is why they oppose the "public option". Democrats are power-hungry, partisan, short-sighted, and frankly don't care at all about the American people, which is why they are currently trying to get our healthcare system down to the level of France's. Try doing some independent thinking and stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I find it interesting how powerful the Liberals are until they run out of someone else’s money!

John Kerry fraged himself with a Grenade Launcher playing around shooting too close!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Can someone come up with the name or names of people who died for the lack of health care!

There are those I call frequent fliers for ambulance rides from pain in the knee and upset stomach to they needed their prescription refilled to wanting someone to cook them breakfast, NO JOKE!! And this ties up units for real emergencies.

So the bottom line Bella, when it comes to health care, you may fool those who are outside of the health care business but not those who do it professionally!

Damn Bella stop being an armchair specialist and get out off your recliner watching CNN to get your talking points. Go out into the world and get your own life, a real life!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Who-hoo Clay can cut and paste the same old tripe over again. It was untrue, unfunny and offensive the first time. What a waste of bandwidth. You guys have done nothing to convince me or anybody else who might read that you are anything but narrow minded fundamentalist extremists. And do you know who is committing terrorist attacks all over the world? Terrorist extremists. I see little difference between onew bunch of extremists and another. My own positions are quite moderate. Some of my opinions are liberal (My right to Choose) and some are conservative (my belief in the 2nd amendment). That makes me a moderate, but there is nothing you extremists hate more than a moderate, because we don't fit the black or white binary catagorization you like to impose on everything. Moderation is anything but extreme, so I understand why I can provoke such umbrage from right wing lunatics like clay, ducky, belch and bagger. But it is extremists who are messing yup the world, stirring up dissent, broadcasting lies again and again on the principle that if you yell it loud enough it becomes true. But it doesn't. I don't want extremist christians imposing their nonsense on me any more than I want extremist muslims doing it. Between the two I see very little difference.
And Clay, I don't have to list any names, I have no need to "prove" anything to you, any information I give is liable to be twisted anyway, so that you can delude yourself that you have made some clever point or another.
But I'll tell you one thing, peace loving moderates don't go about with explosives packed in their "Y" front BVDs. Moderates don't blow up black churches and moderates don't usually get involved in armed standoffs either. Moderates don't release Sarin gas into subways and moderates don't bomb gay bars. You can't blame anything on moderates, really, we moderates are the great put apon, constantly getting it from both sides because we aren't righty enough for the right wing whackos and we aren't lefty enough for the left wing whackos. We kinda sit in the middle and look with disgust at both sides.You extremist blowhards put more importance on party and idiology than in getting any thing done, or the Rethugs wouldn't be blocking important social legislation that is desperately needed. No ideology is everything for you fanatics, and no matter how often you post, I know there really aren't many of you fanatics out there (I can count you know) and it is always the same bunch of yokels with their Rehashed Rushisms. Fantactics like you corporate tools are part of the problem and the attempts to blatently fight any attempt at compromise or problem solving by the right mark them as part of the problem too. Reactionary foulmouthed denialists, close minded chauvanists, the wheel turns dudes, the wheel turns. What comes around goes around and whoops that boomerang is headed right for you. Sure keep denying climate change. Keep supporting offensive shills. See what it gets you.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Who-hoo Clay can cut and paste the same old tripe over again. It was untrue, unfunny and offensive the first time. What a waste of bandwidth. You guys have done nothing to convince me or anybody else who might read that you are anything but narrow minded fundamentalist extremists. And do you know who is committing terrorist attacks all over the world? Terrorist extremists. I see little difference between onew bunch of extremists and another. My own positions are quite moderate. Some of my opinions are liberal (My right to Choose) and some are conservative (my belief in the 2nd amendment). That makes me a moderate, but there is nothing you extremists hate more than a moderate, because we don't fit the black or white binary catagorization you like to impose on everything. Moderation is anything but extreme, so I understand why I can provoke such umbrage from right wing lunatics like clay, ducky, belch and bagger. But it is extremists who are messing yup the world, stirring up dissent, broadcasting lies again and again on the principle that if you yell it loud enough it becomes true. But it doesn't. I don't want extremist christians imposing their nonsense on me any more than I want extremist muslims doing it. Between the two I see very little difference.
And Clay, I don't have to list any names, I have no need to "prove" anything to you, any information I give is liable to be twisted anyway, so that you can delude yourself that you have made some clever point or another.
But I'll tell you one thing, peace loving moderates don't go about with explosives packed in their "Y" front BVDs. Moderates don't blow up black churches and moderates don't usually get involved in armed standoffs either. Moderates don't release Sarin gas into subways and moderates don't bomb gay bars. You can't blame anything on moderates, really, we moderates are the great put apon, constantly getting it from both sides because we aren't righty enough for the right wing whackos and we aren't lefty enough for the left wing whackos. We kinda sit in the middle and look with disgust at both sides.You extremist blowhards put more importance on party and idiology than in getting any thing done, or the Rethugs wouldn't be blocking important social legislation that is desperately needed. No ideology is everything for you fanatics, and no matter how often you post, I know there really aren't many of you fanatics out there (I can count you know) and it is always the same bunch of yokels with their Rehashed Rushisms. Fantactics like you corporate tools are part of the problem and the attempts to blatently fight any attempt at compromise or problem solving by the right mark them as part of the problem too. Reactionary foulmouthed denialists, close minded chauvanists, the wheel turns dudes, the wheel turns. What comes around goes around and whoops that boomerang is headed right for you. Sure keep denying climate change. Keep supporting offensive shills. See what it gets you.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Wow, Bella, way to go with the victimized attitude! Very impressed! Nicely done, very nice. Congrats for you, you apparently have exactly one conservative view (that of the 2nd amendment). That makes no one a moderate; the KKK also believes in the 2nd amendment, and I doubt anyone would label them as "moderates".

La did da...whining, more whining, and yet more whining...fantactics! You said fantactics! I love being present whenever new words are invented! AWESOME!! hahahaha =P All joking aside though, anyone who believes in partial birth abortion, global rule, gulags, Robin Hood economics, socialized healthcare, and global warming crises, and thinks that the US government is "transparent", is most definitely not a moderate. Don't kid yourself: the moderates would reject you in a heartbeat.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella, thank you for proving my case and point of you being section 8!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Very well put dukkillr!!!!
The following is an email I got from someone. Check it out, pass it along. Bella- YOU ARE IN DENIAL and you've got everything mixed up in that what you call "well educated" head of yours. It's not not showing at all.

HOW IS ALL THIS "HOPE" AND "CHANGE" WORKING
> OUT FOR YOU!
>
> YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN HERE!
>
> WELL, HERE IT COMES!!!!
> Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 9:02 PM
>
> HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009
> Please send this to everybody on your list... this is Obama gun
> control by secrecy .
>
> Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into
> the
> House .
> This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009 .
> We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.
> Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under
> the
> radar.
> To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45
> or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of
> 2009.
> You will get all the information.
>
> Basically this "little" piece of legislation would make it
> illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
>
> It is registered
> You are fingerprinted
> You supply a current Driver's License
> You supply your Social Security #
> You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation
> at any time of their choosing
> Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale
> must be reported and costs $25
> Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and
> are
> subject up to a year in jail.
>
> There is a child provision
> clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access
> provision. Guns must be locked and inaccessible to any
> child20under 18.
>
> The Government would have the right to come and inspect that you are
> storing your gun
> safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up
> to 5 yrs. in prison.
> If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of
> many options to read this..
>
> http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text
> It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of
> this. Pass
> the word along .
>
> FAILURE TO DO SO AT YOUR PERIL!
>
> Any hunters in your family - pass this along.
>
> This is just a "termite" approach to complete
> confiscation of guns and disarming
> of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a
> little here and there until the goal is accomplished before
> anyone realizes it.
>
> YOU MAY NOT OWN OR EVEN LIKE GUNS, but if you LOVE FREEDOM, YOU
> better get involved NOW!!!
>
> TOMORROW YOU MAY NOT HAVE AN OPTION.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I just read Bellas' long spew of a post above and she finally admittted-
"Any information I give is liable to be twisted anyway."

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from JDibala wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I've been reading these posts on and off for 5 days and I've finally caught up. I just wanted to say that I have enjoyed reading this thread, and I've learned that I need to take more initiative in researching politicians and what they stand for inorder for me to form my own opinions. I look forward to reading more.

Thanks,
JD

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

John Kerry is a hero, the accusation that he "shot himself" is libelous. Fanatics (Sure get on my case over a typo). Ducky when you have worn a uniform you can criticise John Kerry. Libelous Swift Boaters, Kerry had the courage to protest a corrupt and unwinnable war so you who have never served insult him. You aren't fit to polish Kerry's shoes boy. Go enlist you shallow fool, and see fire yourself then criticise. Cowards! Fascists! Fanatics! Denialists!

I (figuratively) poop on your collective faces.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella- No one has to have been in the military to criticise a senator. dukkillr not only could do a better job of polishing Kerrys' boots but IS FIT TO TAKE Kerrys' job. Simply because he knows more than Kerry does.
Due to your age I know you were in active duty in the 70's and you never saw any fire (except from conservatives.) when you were in the military. IT WAS PEACE TIME during your enlistment. So quit your lying about everything.
Do us all a favor- Pull your lip over your head and swallow.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Kerry was a liar who wrote the reports that got him his medals! As for the Swift Boaters, since over 70% of Americans believed them I think I'm standing on some pretty solid ground here. He lied to get his medals, lied to get the nomination, and then when confronted with his actions he lied again. Go see how many of the military actually believe his story! Short answer: almost none of them. The military voted OVERWHELMINGLY against Kerry and in favor of Bush.
Coward? You are the person who refuses to think for herself. Fascist? Fascists are socialists, like liberals not conservatives. Fanatic? Yes, I'm fanatically proud of America. Denialist? Sure. When I was a kid there were some other kids who made fun of me because I didn't believe in Santa Claus. Some things never change...

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella, I have never seen anyone so ignorant of the facts especially thriving on hate and discontent

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Want to have fun?

Challenge a Liberal and watch them melt down!

Church burnings, I remember if Bush wins, all the all the Black Churches in Arkansas would burst into flames! Never happened, LOL!

Bella, enough with the hearsay Democratic BS talking points, how about coming up with something real like Global Cooling and physical responsibility!

Speaking of physical responsibility, I deal with hundreds of Medicare and Medicaid patients bills daily. Not a single one has never been turned away for treatment but denials for noncoverage is another subject.

Bella, remember a long time ago in California how many Asians were mowing lawns and digging ditches and they had children. You don’t see hardly any Asians now; those children grew up to be Doctors, Engineers and someone of importance. The sad thing and what really burns me up is individuals just like you making other parents to believe they cannot do anything without Government help. Like you’re your kind has created what is now called the Medicaid Ghetto where people have been surprised so much they have to look down to look up! Save the Liberal crap Bella, I’m on the front line fighting for these people 9am to 9pm Monday thru Friday trying to get them the assistance they need! Back in Oct 98, I was in Elizabeth New Jersey scheduled for pick up the next morning to be delivered to Laredo Texas and transferred into Mexico. I was parked in a industrial parking lot and across the street was a Bar. The best places for a Hamburger and a Coke is places like this, so I went in. As I waited for my order, a Black School Teacher sat down beside me and we struck up a conversation about School Students. After about a half hour, she literally wanted me to become the Superintendent of Schools for that area. In fact she pleaded so much she begin to cry. Why is that Bella, you think you know so much and belive you so damn smart, you tell me why this grown respectable Lady of Education wanted some white guy driving an 18 wheeler to be the Superintendent of Schools for the Elizabeth School District. Why Bella, I tell you why! I believe each and every child has a special gift and I believe they can do it and to hold them accountable to those around and most of all accountable for them self and to challenge them and keep raising the bar higher and higher past their dreams. To give them praise and encouragement that they can do it and not to have failure and defeat to have the final word and most of all, just being there giving them safe harbor during time of need! Now fast forward to 95 Phoenix Az, Dysart High School. They were two Hispanic Students and the Principle had the audacity to tell the Parents why do you bother to send this kids to school, there failing miserably. I was stationed close by at Luke AFB and was asked to coach this Schools ROTC Shooting Team and these two students were on the team. When I found out the same time the ROTC Instructors did, we sprung into action informing the parents it is the School responsibility to tell the Parents what the Children need, not for the Parents to tell the School. This all happen on the 2nd half of the 1st semester and at the beginning of the 2nd half of the 2nd semester, these two Students was on the Honor Roll! Why, someone believed in them and stepped up to the plate and went to bat for them! So save me Bella the poor is me Liberal BS! I’ve been there, I’ve stepped up to the plate and went to bat for kids and I still do this day!

So Bella, tell me what you have done besides spewing your poison of hate and discontent!

I know what it is like!
I know what it is like to be seated behind the class with play do and a car while the teacher taught the class.

I know what it is like to be lucky for someone to tuck me under their wing, to challenge, to continually raise the bar, to believe I can do it and to encourage me and make a stand for me!

Its individuals like you Bella who make me mad as hell instead of truly helping those in need; you keep them surprised to further your cause!

It is the Democrats who in fact will accept a level of death and carnage to further their agenda!

By the way, that person who tucked me under her wing was Mrs. Swartzmiller, my 3rd Grade Teacher, who knew what I could do; in fact I exceeded every expectation. I wish she could see me now and I give her the credit in doing so! GOD BLESS HER!!!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

When I was driving an 18 Wheler either picking up a load or delivering it or discussing a problem with the VP of the Company, they all said the same thing, "WHAT DO YOU KNOW", "YOUR JUST A TRUCK DRIVER"!

I would look them in the eye and say, "TELL ME SIR, WHERE WERE YOU DURING THE FIRST SPACE SHUTTLE LAUNCH?" They would look at me in surprise and silent stunned unable to respond. Then I drove it home, "Not only I assisted in construction of the NASA Facility at White Sand New Mexico, I was on the Recovery Team and still have my NASA Operations Access Badge to prove it!"

Bottom line?

You never know were the road will lead someone when you give them a leg up in life!

Mrs. Sandra Warmon a young teenager wanted to learn to shoot?

Another story for another day!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella

What have you done?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Notice how Liberals work and how clever they think they are but the interesting fact about Liberals, when it comes to facts and telling the truth they "SIN"! Not the kind of "SIN" everyone knows about but it’s an acronym for what they do when confronted!

“S” is for Shift, they Shift the subject to avoid the truth!

“I” is for Ignore the facts!

and

“N” is for Name Call when they are unable to “S”hift the subject and “I”gnore the facts they automatically default into “N”ame calling!

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from seadog wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

So many thoughts & so little time. I usually complain that work interferes with my time in the woods--now it interferes with my time in this silly playground. Can't say it all so I'll just say what I "feel" like saying. Then you extremists can look at me through your far-right-wing-colored glasses and call this crusty old seadog a "touchy-feely liberal" for not being in lock-step with the Republicans. LMAO
dukkillr, you used "redistribution of wealth" as a term of art that describes a socialist ideal. That's fine--the term of art means what you say it means, but the words redistribution and wealth have meanings of their own. Socialists and communists are not the only ones that redistribute wealth and taxation is not the only means of redistribution. All of the Republican administrations since Reagan, along with the Clinton administration, and Congress (through both Repub & Dem control) have collaborated to shift American law and policy so that wealth has been consolidated into the hands of a small percentage of Americans. The middle class is shrinking, the extremely wealthy are getting richer, and some of you are cheering it on. Soviet style communism was a failed attempt to redistribute wealth from the elite wealthy class to the worker. The last 30 years of American policy has been a sucessful (thus far) attempt to redistribute wealth from the worker (the middle class) to the wealthy elite. The Republicans have led the charge, and the Democrats (fractured as usual) have helped the cause at times, paid lip service against it at times, but never done anyting effective to slow it down--it has been a joint effort. This isn't liberal or conservative--it's irresponsible. If I'm a "liberal" (insert your own venimous accent) for opposing the elimination of the middle class, then f-you, I'm a liberal.
Clay, your posts are getting more & more like "Name that Tune." I can name that Coop-cut&past-ism in 3 words! Sometimes I don't even need the words--I can spot the one about how conservatives invented beer from the geometric shape of the paragraphs. It looks like you've got quite a colletion & some of them are interesting but you could use some new material. I hadn't seen the cute little hurricane relief story about how black people want free food before. Are you trying to revive the ku klux klan discussion? I've got my own hurricane relief story--first hand--not from television. After Hurricane Wilma, FEMA paid for generators. I got one but FEMA didn't pay for mine--I qualified but I didn't feel right taking money for something I could afford. The generator program was welfare for the wealthy. People who genuinly needed help getting generators couldn't get them because you had to pay up front and apply for reimbursement. The only recipients were people who could afford to buy them. And to make it worse, the power co. mostly turned the power back on in the rich neighborhoods first, so many of the recipients never even needed the generators. That was the Bush administration at it's best.
Wyatt, I notice that you still seem to be having trouble comprehending Bella's comments. I've read quite a few of them and I didn't have any trouble understanding what she was saying. She sometimes throws in an obscure reference, sort of like listening to Steely Dan lyrics, but other than that it's all plain English. Is English your first language? It seems to me that you have trouble understanding anything that you don't agree with completely. It also appears that you require the comfort of the flock, because you rarely express an opinion that hasn't been pre-approved by the majority.
Go ahead & have at me if you like--I'll respond if I "feel" like it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

seadog

Thank you for proving my case and point (SIN)!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Seadog - you are not redistributing wealth if you only ALLOW THE PEOPLE WHO EARNED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE TO KEEP IT. To redistribute wealth you have to 1. take it away, and 2. give it away. If the GOP had passed laws that taxed the wealthy and then gave them their money back in the form of special rebates or incentives, then that might qualify as redistribution (if you go by the sketchy definition and not the real-worl definition.) However, simply letting them keep more of their own money is NOT redistribution, since the government isn't distributing anything. They earned it, let them keep it.

By the way, my family is very solidly middle-class, so your arguments don't really make sense (if we are middle-class, why would we hate it?) The elite wealthy class is made up almost entirely of liberals anyway. Why then, you ask, would the republicans be in favor of letting these liberals keep more of their money? Because those of us who are conservatives operate off of principle, not emotions.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella and Seadog answer this question.

Your over 50 and an Disabled Vet, you automatically have two strikes against you in the job market. Age and Veteran discrimination is alive and well. So instead of lowering yourself you choose to refinance your house and start your own business. Also you ask if anyone wants to loan you money to get it off the ground at 50% plus interest, but nobody wants any part of it. Now 5 years later after literally almost loosing it all, your house, your vehicles, all of it, your business finally takes off. Why should I subject myself to parasitic taxes! Money taken and goes into a black hole to never see the light of day formally called pork barrel spending! Wife and I have busted our ass and why should I allow someone else who never donated even a dime say they are going to take my hard earned income and to use it for there on greed!

Answer that one!

O'by the way, those who didn't want to participate in starting this business are now knocking on my door are now wanting in!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

seadog

Suppose you built a house without financing and totally by yourself.

Now the Government wants 30% to 55% of its value in taxes

What say you!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

seadog, bella to

One more question

Your running an Emergency Relief Center feeding people. You only have enough food, shelter and supplies for only those affected. But those affected next door neighbors shows up who isn't affected by the crisis with there hand out, what would you do?

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

seadog- Please show me where I said I can't comprehend Bella's spewing. I'd like too see the reference. Of course only if you feel like it you pompous *ss.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Wyatt, the North and South Koreans never siugned a peace treaty with each other. The Korean War NEVER ENDED for people on the peninsula. It "ended" for us (sort of) but they are still staring grimly at each other across the DMZ.
Now I may not have been shot at, but that doesn't mean I didn't handle tons of high explosives (I worked in a bomb dump, It was boring, dull and dangerous). Then there was the rocket motors, thermal generators (one went off once- universal panic!)and other pyrotechnics. I was in the Air Force, the risks are different than for grunts, but that doesn't mean I faced no danger and It doesn't give you grounds to diss my service (just because I respect MY senator).
Clay you keep on coming up with inane scenarios and expecting to "trap" me in some illogical construction or another. The last sentence in your previous post is so badly composed it is hard to figure just what you are trying to say. Strunk and White dude!
Property taxes are levied on the local level where I live. The Feds don't even do that! You get nothing for free, dude. Taxes pay for infrastructure and administration. You think you pay too much? You get no sympathy from me.
Any disabled vet who wants to start a business ought to do some market research first. Mortgaging your house your house to start a business is a real dumb idea anyway, what would you do if it fails! I tend to agree that a lot of pork barrel spending is misappropriated and doesn't address the public good.
A big problem is the practice of congress people (on both sides) of attaching amendments to legislation as riders that are not germain to the issues addressed in the bill. I disagree with this practice and feel that things like proclamations on "national Pickle Day", riders funding unrelated projects back in home districts and subsidies to political contributors should never be tacked into important national legislation. The system works, when it isn't all gummed up with irrelevancy and pettyness. Right now the only reason it is working at all is because the Dems have the majority given them by the Republicans. I say given, because it is revulsion over the greed, arrogance and pettiness we saw over the last 8 years of Dubya that handed the congress and the presidency to Obama and the Democrats. Repugs had their way for 8 years and what was accomplished? 2 wars, still not yet won and done, Millions of acres of public lands (that we might have hunted) given over to mining and energy interests for a song (and some meaty campaign contributions) and the disaster of Katerina. Now the same people who brought us 8 years of shame constipate the congress and attempt to prevent any good being accomplished even now. Fortunately they are seriously outnumbered and things are getting done. I may not agree with everything being done but, most Americans were in agreement something had to be done or Obama wouldn't be in the White House. Things will get done whether you reactionaries like it or not. Fortunately Obama is a practical guy, a pragmatist rather than an ideologue like his opponents.
As I repeat, fanatical ideologues are the problem, not the solution.
At least that lying shill Limbaugh is off the air for a few Days. He probably choked on his own vitreol.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Ducky the notion that 70% of Americans believed the swiftboat smear is just untrue, and I would wonder where you got such a statistic. Most of the Vets I know (and myself) were disgusted by it.
When you compare the military experience of John Kerry and Dubya, it is quickly evident who saw fire and who was just a drunk and a coke head, frequently too soused to even report for duty. If he hadn't been a Bush (with people covering for him) he would have been bounced out dishonorably and we wouldn't have had him around to annoy us.
Cheney didn't serve in any capacity, what a guy to send folks off to war (a guy who wouldn't go himself. Chickenhawk!) Obama may not have any military service record himself, but he didn't start any of the wars on his watch. He just has to deal with them.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella

There you go again, can not answer a question, so you shifted the subject, ignored the facts and you went into name calling and dive right into one of your diatribes

As for John Kerry, he is nothing without his wife Teresa Heinz bank account!

I tell you what Bella, if your house burns down and according to your beliefs, your own your own right! hope your insurance is paid up! O' that's right, you blew your money or too lazy to hold a job so it's now my responsibility for you own stupidity? NOT!

It's OK to be stupid now and then, but Bella and seadog you really abuse the privilege!

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from SAND BAGGER wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Reality is not optional Bella!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella - Apparently you only know liberal Vets. How many vets do you know who voted for Bush? (Why am I thinking your response will be "not many"?)

Kerry's a liar, and America agrees with me (case in point: he lost the election, big time.) If he hadn't been a Kerry (with people covering for him) he would have been bounced out dishonorably and we wouldn't have had him whining during the elections.

Here's the bottom line: the military believed Bush back then, and they still do (have I mentioned that 80% voted for him?) The military despised Kerry back then, and they still do. He's a fraud. I was involved heavily with our local VFW over the past fall, and odds are if you brought up Kerry and the Swiftboats, they'd start cussing Kerry out in short order.

BTW, Bella, you might want to re-evaluate your "facts". The GOP did NOT have control for 8 years, the Democrats took over in 2006 (at which time they immediately got to work screwing the economy and landed us in the fix we are in today. Very efficient.) Try thinking for yourself and stop blindly believing everything CNN, MSNBC, and the other liberal networks say. I thought you were supposed to be a free thinker!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

With all the Veterans I deal daily, I have not found to this date a single Vet who likes this Administration!

Bella your in a state of denial and may I point out this is not "The Nile River" in Africa

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Hey, I live in Massachusetts, we keep electing Kerry. What sort of vets do you think live in Massachusetts? Extremists like you?
Trying to blame the financial crisis on Democrats is patently ridiculous, It was on Dubya's watch, he gets the blame for it and for making it worse by orchestrating the first TARP Bailout (the unconditional one). It was the Republican rollback of financial regulations allowing shady dealing coupled gross financial malfeasance that caused the crash, but the folks responsible have mostly feathered their nests nicely out of it. The middle class took the hit hard though.
My reccomendation to anybody sensible is to pull your money out of any bank "too big to fail" and move it to a credit union or a community bank. If you have money left to pull, that is.
As far as blindly believing in such things as Global Warming, when I heard respected scientists (such as Dr.James Hansen) and other respected sober individuals telling me that the data says thus and such, I believe them. When Nobel Prize winners, spiritual leaders and and politicians (that I also respect) I believe them over abrasive loudmouths like Limbaugh or Hannity. Then when I observe with my own senses, unusual weather trends, species out of place and physical things like vanishing glaciers it makes you denialists look really reactionary and ignorant. It's like the prophets are calling out that a time of trial is ahead, but you guys are ready with the rocks to stone the prophets yet again. Because you don't want to accept that which is laid out before you. Hey I understand, a significant number of you likely expect to be raptured any day now anyway, not your problem huh? Fine, If you religious fanatics expect to be raptured, go for it! But it is rude and disingenuous for you to block the activities of those of us who expect to stick around when we try to do something about the poop we might happen to perceive nearing the air impeller. You can go, but trashing whats left of the planet when you leave is definitely Not Okay.
Exactly what sort of denial do you think I possess, Mudman?
You are the one who denys climate change and the fact that the cons couldn't throw the last election (like they did the previous two). I can only imagine how badly the republicans would have lost if they didn't cheat, didn't intimidate people at the polls or didn't get as many folks knocked off the voter roles. They was trying! I'm certain the landslide would have been embarrassing.
But that is the difference between us liberal moderates and you right wing ideologues. When Our boy lost, we bided our time, then we lost again and again we bided our time and trusted that we could with vigilance make the system work. And it did work. Now you cons are in the position of having lost a fair election (or one that couldn't be thrown this time) and what are you guys doing. Everything short of open rebellion. Right wing whackos are buying up every "assault weapon" in sight and attempting to clear the shelves of ammo. One can only speculate as to whatever nastyness you cons are planning.
I expect to see hard times in coming years, but due to wild weather and climate change. This does not mean I want the present political situation overturned. My concern is that in a few years politics is likely to be the least of our problems, because I listen to scientists who give out some pretty dire warnings. I know that climate can tip a lot of dominos, bringing about wide and varied consequences. I am not blind or deaf, and certainly not in denial. Look in a mirror Mudman. Go get fired up and become a pot.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Um, actually yes, Massachusetts has a ton of liberal extremists. A ton. Fortunately for America, the US Military as a whole is very conservative.

I don't deny that Bush had a hand to play in the financial meltdown. Who can forget fall 2008, when the Democrats were in power, and he let himself get pressured into starting the bailout trend (which completely killed Wall Street.) TARP was ridiculous, something Bush should have never let the Dems convince him into pushing. The conservatives were furious.

BTW, it was the liberals who coined the phrase "too big to fail". TARP was the idiotic result of a Bush/liberals cooperative deal.

Congrats, you have a few respected scientists. I have over 30,000. Awhile back the Global Warming lobby had a petition going, trying to convince US scientists to sign onto as a statement that global warming was a threat. Approximately 5000 did, and over 30,000 refused. I have the scientists on my side; you have the politicians on yours.

You observed "vanishing glaciers" with your own senses? Hmm, why do I doubt that one? Let me tell you something: 2009 has been a record cold winter. Did you somehow miss the huge snowstorm that stranded all those motorists in the NC/VA/MD area? For the first time in years, we got over 8 inches of snow at one time down here in the Piedmont (doesn't sound like much, but down South it is record.) Your "sober individuals" were forecasting an ICE AGE in the 1970s! Why can't they make up their minds? Did you somehow miss the fact that the University of East Anglia DESTROYED all of their gathered information about climate change, leaving only their deductions? Did you somehow miss the fact that there are global warming scientists being prosecuted by YOUR LIBERAL GOVERNMENT for doctoring up their info? Did you somehow miss the fact that the Earth is 1 degree cooler than it was in the 1860s, before cars were even invented? Did you somehow miss the fact that cows produce much much more carbon dioxide than all the cars in America combined? Why do you just believe something because you had some politicians, religious leaders, and scientists tell you that it was true? What happened to independent thinking? Back in Galileo's time, you had politicians, religious leaders, and scientists telling everyone that the world was flat! You are a follower, not an independent thinker.

Mudman? I don't follow your train of thought, but my "denial" is called logic, something very few liberals have heard about.

hahahahaha I'm laughing my head off. We tried to throw the election? Apparently you missed the Black Panthers who were prosecuted for voter intimidation with nightsticks and billy clubs? The Republicans don't try to throw the elections, that's the Democrats' specialty. (Oh, and for the record, if someone is an illegal alien or a felon, I don't mind one bit throwing them off the voter roles.)

The only way Democrats can win is by creating a crisis. They don't care about America, they don't care about helping people, all they want is power.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella-
You living in the liberal capital of the country says alot about how you think.The Dems are notorious for spending money like a drunken sailor . Remember- liberals always raise taxes so they have more to play with.The Global warming thing is a concocted falsehood. (I used to believe some of it until I researched it, and read some interesting books on it.) The earth itself produces much more carbon dioxide than we do burning fossil fuels. Besides, CO2 is a natural element, (Not a pollutant like the EPA says.) all vegetation uses it and in return produces oxygen. Nature produces over 200 billion ton of carbon dioxide per year and we only produce around 7 billion ton per year. The oceans emit CO2 every second of every minute, so do the rain forests and for that matter, all forested areas. Even where you hunt contributes CO2. Forest and grass fires contribute. Each one of the 6 billion people breathing on this planet contributes CO2. So does every living creature. We are now in a time of greatly increased volcano activity, the greatest in 500 years. One thing that is a problem is the deforestation of the rain forests. The rain forests make up only 7% of the land mass of this planet but produces 1/3 of our oxygen, which means it consumes 1/3 of the CO2 in the atmosphere. As far as your disappearing glaciers, those pics were taken in the summer. The ice is just fine. It the different ocean currents like El Nino and La Nina that effect our weather, not CO2. Besides, with more CO2, the crops grow bigger, and that has been proven. The scientists that are agreeing with the falsehood get HUGE grants for doing just that. Keeps them in the money. Bella, you haven't sounded like a moderate in any of your posts, you are an extreme left winger.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Great post dukkillr- I was busy typing mine and read yours afterwards.

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from Carney wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Obviously too many posts to read... And the long ones that preceeded this one made me feel like maybe this blog had gone on a little too long.

Nevertheless, I'll have my say -- I like (most of) Limbaugh's political views a lot. But his support of HSUS is asinine and ill conceived. We should kick his a$$ for it because that would be the right thing to do and we don't want him to do it again.

So let it be written. So let it be done.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Well on the global warming thing, I moved to high ground and my farm is paid for. You go move to Florida, we'll wait and see what happens.
I can't believe the flap about hacked emails from East Anglia, like one set of hacked (!) emails between academics in a 3rd rate British university is suddenly evidence that Global Warming is a plot! Sure it is...Riight. The deniers are Really scratching for supportive data. I'll continue to believe Dr. Hansen, thank you very much. He's a Doctor, Ducky is a homeschooled teenager, I should believe the teenager and not the Doctor? Gee such logic we have here...
So you deniers run along to Florida now, we'll see.
Oh and it is cold in North America right now because it is Winter! Nobody ever claimed Global warming was going to eliminate winter, what would make anybody think that? Global Warming means that climate systems have more energy in them thus they generate more violent storms. Like I say, believe what you like, but don't stand in the way of people who are motivated to respond to a threat, because you don't see it as a threat. You who are deniers, need do nothing to prove your case. People in general only believe what they want to believe anyway. So fine, go move to some nice cay in the Carribean, where you can see the coral reefs bleaching right in front of you, till that day when some hurricane washes your denying rump away, that is. Wait and see...I always hedge My bets, sustainable living is the goal for my retirement years! I already hold high ground, you are welcome to the low...

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella-
You are in contempt constantly, acting as if it's a short hop from being a liberal to being an unpatriotic american. Your venomous spewing to constant name calling (e.g. Dubya, Faux news, .......) to categorizing everyone into your evil labels and acting like conservatives are an enemy of this country shows how far left you really are.You evoke the left extremists so much, I'm sure it comes natural for you considering where you live. Your blue is showing in every one of your posts, matter of fact YOU'RE SO BLUE you need to come up for air.
The only reason why you adopted the independent "free" thinker label for yourself is because seadog called you that. Before, you never said you were a "free thinker, but since he named you one, that what we hear from you, it's your new label for yourself. It doesn't fit what you protray.
Besides, if seadog was a true independent thinker, he would have seen your liberalism shining brightly. His labeling you as an independent thinker really shows his leftist views.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Ohhhhhhh Bella- When you said-
"Oh and it is cold in North America right now because it is Winter! Nobody ever claimed Global warming was going to eliminate winter, what would make anybody think that?

YOUR RIGHT, NOBODY SAID THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella, you claim to know everything yet you refuse to answer the simplest of questions by “S”hifting the conversation claiming to know the facts and yet you “I”gnore the real facts then you dive straight into “N”ame calling, the typical trait of a ignorant person. The more I learn about you, the more you prove beyond shadow of doubt your running entirely on talking points from the far left.

It’s time to stop running around like Chicken Little yelling “The sky is falling” and come off Bella’s Ridge to explore the world for what it really is!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Well I just made it official. Bella NEVER DID use the terms "independent" or "free" thinker until seadog called her one. That is sooo typical of liberals.
By the way Bella- I know why you keep hitting the wrong button all the time- to get extra 50 points for duplicate posts. You not only did it many times twice, but many times in triplicate too. Well done.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella - I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm asking you to believe the 30,000+ scientists who have my back. Wow, so you have one doctor!! Amazing! You can find at least one sober, respectable person to advocate ANYTHING...

East Anglia - to quote the New York Times, the University of East Anglia is one of the main European institutions in the research of climate change. Phil Jones, the scientist who stepped down when his emails were uncovered, was also called by the liberal Times a "top UK climate research chief". Your calling them a "3rd rate British university" shows your ignorance. When one of the major insitutions responsible for the global warming frenzy leaks emails that their researchers are trying to conceal the "temperature decline" trend, this is a big deal.

Furthermore: how do you explain the UEA's Climate Research Unit ADMITTING that they destroyed the "raw data", leaving only the processed and "homogenized" results? They admitted this, okay? It's not a rumor, this is fact: the UK's top CRU just admitted that they destroyed raw data and left only their conclusions. That is a crime, in fact they are researching the parties responsible for criminal prosecution.

I can't believe that after all that boasting about being an "independent thinker" you are believing something just because Dr. Hansen said it was true. Let me tell you something about Dr. Hansen:

To start off with, his credentials as a climate change authority are rather shaky. He did a good job working for NASA, but after he left that job he became a political advocate for global warming, at which time a large part of the scientific world abandoned him, saying that his figures were doctored and he was purposefully exaggerating matters. To quote Physicist Freedman Dyson, "He constantly exaggerates all the dangers...Hansen has turned his science into ideology." Hansen isn't a reputable scientist, he is a political figure who advocates illegal protests.
In June 2009 he was arrested for police obstruction and impeding traffic during an illegal protest in Raleigh County, WV. He purposely broke state laws just to make a point. After this incident and several others, even the liberal NY Times abandoned him, saying "Dr. Hansen has pushed far beyond the boundaries of the conventional role of scientists, particularly government scientists, in the environmental policy debate."

Elizabeth Kolbert, of the New Yorker, said that Hansen is "increasingly isolated among climate activists." In fact, NY Times climate columnist Christa Marshall asked if he even mattered anymore in the climate change debate, saying that he has "irked many longtime supporters with his scathing attacks against President Obama's plan for a cap-and-trade system."

There you go, the wonderful Dr. Hansen. Political advocate, yes, climate scientist, no. His plan for reducing global warming involves simply shutting down the coal industry, without a thought to the people who depend on those mines, the lost revenue, or the real world implications. He is an extremist of extremists, and the majority of global warming scientists have abandoned him and are trying to dissociate their names with his research.

So much for him. I think I'll just stick with Dyson and the majority of the scientific world in saying that Hansen is merely a political advocate...and not a very good one at that.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Dr. Hansen was protesting mountain top removal, one of the most wasteful and distructive (and unneccesary) mining techniques known. Mountain top removal is done by coal companies because it takes less manpower, therefore less people to pay and provide health insurance. But Mountaintop removal pollutes and destroys aquifers sickening thousands of West Virginia residents while providing fewer jobs than the old way. If you gave a poop about people, children and yes, unborn fetusses, you would be on the protest line with DR. Hansen yourself. Toxins leach through the mining waste used as fill and make peoples tap water undrinkable.
I tend to disagree with cap and trade, because it turns pollution into a tradable commodity. It doesn't reduce carbon, it only moves into other peoples back yards.
Only "cons" would advocate policies that equate to crapping in ones own nest. Go hurry up and rapture, you waste space.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Oh the very notion that an outdoorsperson who hunts and fishes would for an instant approve of the wholesale destruction of hunting habitat and burying of fishing streams is contradictory.
I do not use coal, we buy our power (that which we don't generate with solar panels) from green sources and pay more to do so. We need more sun and wind power, we don't need coal. Coal is a dirty destructive, carcinogenic energy source monopolized by a dying industry. It must be phased out, and we can start by ending the obscene practice of mountaintop removal.
Dr Hansen walks his talk, I admire that in a man. He puts himself in the line of fire for what he believes in. Ducky, you ain't worthy to polish his shoes either. Go quit hanging out with the Jugend and talk with some people your own age who are into normal things (other than hanging out with religious fanatics). Go do some snowboarding, go hang out at the mall or something, get a life!)

I know, (because you always use this 2nd grade tactic) that you will now tell me to get a life, and thank you, I have a very nice life. It was your wasted youth I was discussing, My wasted youth is 2o years behind me. It Just Ain't Normal for teenage males to act like you do, getting all fixated on reactionary blowhards and demented evangelicalism. Loosen up kid or you'll wind up on an aircraft somewhere with your undershorts all full of PMEX or Cemtex ready to blow your ass off for some inane idiology. Ducky when I compare you to Mustapha whatever his name is (with the explosive panties), I know you are going to say that You are a Christian and That's different because you think you have the only true whatever. But Mustapha believes the exact same thing (but with slightly different labels) and he believes it more strongly that whatever malarkey you believe, because he is willing to literally blow his butt off for the God he believes in and you are not. Practically speaking, you both worship the same monotheistic demiurge anyway, except Mustapha is willing to die for whatever he believes in (however wrong it may be) and you are a wannabe.
I however am not interested in encouraging this notion that the Gods actually would want mortals to blow themselves up over ideology. I don't think the Gods approve of anybody blowing anybody up. As I have written, I have handled far far more than my share of munitions and I am convinced all that dangerous hardware is rather more than ungodly. You can't convince me that either Yeshua or Muhammed would approve of such. Fundamentalist extremists seem to thing God wants vthem to blow stuff up, but I am not convinced that any religious extremist has a pipeline to God. I find it more likely that all of you dissent mongering, controlling, manipulative, judgemental religious extremists are so caught up with the noise in your own heads that you wouldn't hear "the still small voice within" even if God turned the volume up to 11. I'd rather hang out with Unitarian Universalists, they are more loving and spiritual than any of you fundie whacko's.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I have absolutely no problem with anyone protesting the coal industry, they have a Constitutional right to do so. What I do have issue with is when they do it ILLEGALLY. Dr. Hansen's protest reminds me of how PETA does similar illegal protests, such as spraying women who wear furs with red paint, or taking a razor blade into a fur store and slashing all the coats, or throwing acid at pro-hunting speakers. You have a right to protest, but you do not have the right to protest in such a way that breaks state laws and/or harms people. Dr. Hansen is no better than the PETA fanatics, and ten times worse than Rush Limbaugh.

I don't advocate cap-and-trade either, especially since it is a very destructive policy. However, most global warming advocates ARE in favor of cap-and-trade, and I was just showing how Hansen went beyond even them in extremism.

Fossil fuels may be bad, and I have no objection to technology eventually phasing them out. But doing Hansen's idea - that of immediately stopping their use and destroying the coal mines - is rash, dangerous, and harmful to the US economy. At least Rush Limbaugh never told people to break state laws just to make a point.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I've been saving this one,just to see what conspires. Everyone worries about Global Warming?

What about that Super Volcano in Yellow Stone Park!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Oh yes, the supervolcano under Yellowstone park, that Really could cook off any day and wax our entire civilization like nothing. Ironicly, if it happens it would likely completely reverse Global warming by pumping so much ash into the atmosphere that sunlight is blocked and we have another year (or two) without a summer like we did back in 1812 (I think that was the year). It would be devastation across much of North America when the massive lava chamber under the park blows. In Nebraska there are layers of volcanic ash 30 feet deep from the last time it blew. That much ash fries electrical transformers and takes out power grids. Internal combustion engines and jet engines also fail when they ingest volcanic ash. When it goes it will be bad. I say when and not if, because it will, soon enough. But I'd rather the planetary Divinity not punish us so. It seems such a brutal way of restoring the balance.
Yellowstone I can talk about, an issue absolutely beyond politics. When it goes it will make St. Helens look like a highway flare.
Up here in the hills of the Acadien Orogeny (geology talk) I like to think My little farm might be too far east to lay under significant ashfall (yes, I am the Pollyanna Pessimist and I actualy think about such things, but I grew up a mormon so you might understand...).
So Clay What About that super volcano. Do you think you are far enough away to avoid the pyroclastic flow? I wouldn't want anybody to get caught in that sort of disaster, I visited Yellowstone once with my family, years ago when I was a kid and (as a kid) I was terrified most of the time, course I was knee high at the time and when you are on those board walks and the very stinking fumeroles are bubbling beneath your feet, well a little kid could feel insecure! So I have never had any great desire to revisit Yellowstone, I just hope it can keep the lid on for another 50 years or so...

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Clay, for the record, I brew beer. So your thing about conservatives inventing beer and liberals drinking wine or drinks with umbrellas in them is just not true. I brew good strong dark beer and if you ever tried it, you'd want more. I never drink drinks with umbrellas in 'em, why do you think I started brewing beer?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella
I don't blame you brewing your own and besides,I delivered a many loads to and from those Beer Manufacturers and the dead critters I've found cleaning the trailers would make me brew my very own Beer...LOL!!!

I'm actually a Tea and fountain Coca-Cola person, don't care much about alcohol and besides when I was in Florida and the fireworks was over with on the 4th of July in Destin Florida I went Scuba Diving and you can't do it if your three snits in the wind so just call me the dictated driver!

But, once in a Blue Moon I might have a sip or two of Beer for medicinal purposes to relax the body just short of the buzz!

Besides, it’s more entertaining to watch those who get drunk and acting stupid so you can ask what they did the previous night, LOL!

By the way, what do you know about and thoughts of that Super Volcano out in Yellow Stone the Media keep ignoring?

Gotta, I'll tell'ya about Kadena later, gotta run you will love it!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Kadena? you don't mean in Okinowa do you? What's the problem with the Airbase in Okinowa? When I was in the 8th TAC the Wolfpack had a resupply and rearmament relationship with Kadena AFB. We had a restricted area on base that we had to pretend to guard during exercises (they'd never issue any clips to go with the rifles they'd issue to "guard" the restricted area in the bomb dump. Always resented that, sin to hand a girl an empty gun). At any rate, I served in a time when it wasn't popular, being just after 'Nam and all. Korea definately changed me, though I was only there a year. I had my first experience in a real Dojo (Dojang- same difference) when I studied Hap-Ki-Do under a Korean teacher. I wasn't in the Dojang long enough to make rank, but that experience put me in touch with the bedrock of my life. These days I study Iaido, (I'm testing this month) the art of drawing and cutting with the sword. before that it was Aikido and before that Kendo and before that Goju Do (Okinowan). If I have an ounce of discipline, it is due to my Senseis and the Budo. Life is training, training is life! Of course I tend to take the warrior thing much further than my fellow shugyosa (students of swordsmanship) in that I do archery, pistols, rifles (and then there is my personal cannons).
I'm unusual that way. but Toemoe Goezen was a famous female warrior of Nippon who wielded two swords at a time like airplane propellers, not that I plan to ever do so myself. But continued training allows graceful aging. Besides discipline is contagious.
But today my training was on Xcountry Skis, an exercise I endorse and reccommend, especially when one considers the Biathlon! It was like Bella of the Tundra out skiing on the frozen lake, but one gets ones fdaily cardio workout where one can!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I bet it's interesting to watch you slice and dice vegetables, LOL!

As for Kadena, I was there when Korean Flight 007 was shot down. Worked in job control and talk about breaking records in getting the F-15's and RF-4's to there forward locations scared the snit out of he Russians!

As for Cobra Ball RC-135 they thought they were shooting down, in June 86 I became one of the Maintenance Scheduler at Eielson AFB AK for that same Aircraft. Talk about guards around it, you just didn't walk up to it that's for sure!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I suggest that anyone that cares about their second amendment go to this website, save it to your favorites and research the site.If you thought the UN has good intentions, It will change what you believe about the UN.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Forgot to post it.
http://www.un.org/disarmament/HomePage/PressReleases/PR.shtml

I haven't been able to be on line to much, I know that we are all screwed no matter what happens, or who is elected unless everyone wises up to the master plan of the elites.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

When 007 went down I was at a convention in Baltimore, Hanging out with a bunch of Texans (drinkin' Lone Star) in a double suite. Party got real quiet real fast...
As far as Kadena goes, I understand the Okinawans would rather see the back of the US military, but the Japanese and Koreans don't want us going.
Oh well the only ground I have for understanding the cultures of Korea, Okinawa and Japan from martial arts. I did Hapkido in Korea and Okinawan Goju Do in the 80's then Kendo, Aikido and Iaido from the 90's to the present. Hapkido was the most efficently brutal (to ones enemy), Goju was the most brutal (for the student- Iron body technique was too harsh for me!) and the Japanese Budo arts are the most beautiful (and picayune). I am not interested in being brutal or in being brutalized so I stick with Budo.
Each art is a reflection of the culture that evolved it. China, Mongolia and Japan played king o the hill so often in the land of Chosen the Koreans naturally became resentful of their frequently tresspassing neighbors. But there was always different parties in play, the Koreans even won a few rounds (inventing ironclad ships to fight the Japanese and rocket arrow launchers (like Katyushas) to run off the Mongols. The Okinawans pretty much only had to deal with Japanese, so one can see what happens when an oppressed population is disarmed. The people learn to use what they have as weapons. The Tonfa is a mill wheel handle, Nunchucks are agricultural flails and Sai are pitchforks. Okinawa was famous for rice, and without flails, forks or handles, you can't make the rice.
I found Koreans easiest to get along with, and I like Korean foods better than Japanese or Chinese (even kimchi!). I hope to revisit Korea and Japan someday, if the world is willing...

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

While in Okinawa, had the best job one could have show up to work at 8am, get of at 12noon, go to work part time at the Kadina Marina in the Scuba Rental (free rental gear too!), get off about 6pm, make a dive or two there at the sea wall or just down the road in front of the Naval Hospital then go back into work still wearing my dive suit at time, work 30 minutes at the most and back to the barracks 300 yards away. I know people would die to have a job like that!

As for the Okinawans when they got to know me, you can say they adopted me which a few did. When I was in there store, any Military individual showing disrespect regardless of rank I got in there face, even today I have no toleration for it even here in my home town at the local Panda or any other place when some redneck would pop off.

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from Summit Republican wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

People just don't get it. It comes down to two main things, money and looking good. If Rush looks good to the soccer idiots then they might listen to his show more often. If they listen to his show more often then he gets more advertisers on board, therefore his wallet gets fatter. What is so hard to figure out about that? He can claim all he wants about being against Obama's spending spree but when it comes down to it

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

American GI's have a rep for uncouth behavior in many places. Of course Kids are kids and young men with minimal supervision a long way from home will occasionally get outa control. One of my jobs was touring the squadron barracks every morning with a clipboard to tabulate the damage and vandalism done by drunken airmen. But we had 5 bars ON BASE and two liquor stores, aside from the Okku Silvertown honkeytonk complex exactly 3 kliks from the Kunsan AFB gate (otherwise known as "ATown"). I'm not saying I didn't engage in my own share of militarily sanctioned inebriation, but a body occasionally had cause to sctatch ones head at the drunken antics one might encounter.
I liked many of the Koreans I met, but I found I had a common language...watercolor painting. I brought a bicycle with me (I know, coals to Newcastle) and I pedaled all over the countryside, painting pictures when I was off duty. Although the scars of war were still very visible on the land, Chosen is a very beautiful country (or it was in 1978!) I spend Xmas with a Korean Family and it was a very memorable experience. I found Koreans to be a lot like New Englanders, Hard headed, practical people, crusty on the outside but kind and warm once you know 'em. I still have much of the art I did there, I never sold those paintings. So yes I'd like to go back, but I know Korea has changed a lot since I was there.
Oh I see Rush was noted on Huffpo as "supporting the Hawaiian State health care system". Thought he was agin such things as state supported health care, but perhaps this is just more behaviors intended to confuse the dittoheads.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Summit - By your logic, if a talk show host appealed to the moderates then he would have the largest following...which has been proven to be an untrue theory, btw. Sure, he's partly in it for money, just like every other talk show host and news network out there. No mystery here. What was your point?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

The Huffpo? As is the Huffington Post, Bella? One of the most liberal "news" agencies out there, started by an extremist who married a rich gay guy for his money? So not impressed. Here's what Rush said: "there is nothing wrong with the American healthcare system. I received no special treatment."

And the Huffington Post transformed that into "Limbaugh is supporting socialist healthcare!" They completely missed the context, which was this: Many liberals accuse the American healthcare system of pandering to the rich and famous. Several took the opportunity of accusing Rush of getting special attention during his hospital stay at the expense of normal patients, just because he is a celebrity.

At which point Rush said that there wasn't anything wrong with America's healthcare system in that regard, and he didn't get any special treatment. And the Huffpo wrote a long article trying to make him look like a hypocrite in favor of "socialist healthcare", which only succeeded in making them look like the 5th grade level publication that they are. Wow. Again, so not impressed.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Sorry, meant to say "as in the Huffington Post", not "as is". Typo, my bad.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Kunsan AB?

One of our forward operation Bases.

As for Huffington and Kerry, it's there mega rich spouse who catapulted them into the positions there in.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Yep, Kunsan AFB, Only decent sand beach for cliks and cliks both up and down the coast, but we couldn't enjoy it, because it was supposedly mined. it was the 8th TAC then, likely something else now. Lots of beautiful countryside around there, yet you'd climb a hill then notice that the top is perfectly flat- a helipad- then you might notice the old weapons positions, or trenches. and you might go down that hill and on the next green forested ridge you notice the line of connected tunnels boring deep into the hills, where the enemy sited artillery, positioned to pull the guns in under the hill to avoid Air strikes.
The Koreans were still flying Canadaire F86 Sabers when I was there, with AIM-9 missiles mounted on the wings nearly as long as the aircraft. They flew those old airframes like madmen, something to see. Of course my ears still ring from the sound of F4 Phantom engines on afterburner, and it was 30 years ago...

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from Summit Republican wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

It only comes down to two things; money and looking good.
Rush needs to look good to the soccer mommies to get them to listened to his show so advertisers will keep purchasing spots.
People this guy is nothing more than a leach that could care less about the basic human right of self preservation, and he even admits on his show he only allows people on that make him look good. Please wise up and quit listening to this has-been.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

You can say the same thing for the main stream media. They control what they put on news casts and slant it to the left. They are biased in every respect.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Summit Rep-
When I said that you say the same thing about the main stream media, it is all about money and looking good. (Dan Rather got rid of Connie Chyng because she was getting more of his air time than he liked.)
All of those journalists are millionaires making millions per year. So don't put Rush in a category all by himself.

The liberal bias is so pervasive in the television networks, that is has revitalized the radio, (talk radio). This is why the 'alternative' media audience is growing and the 'mainstream' audience is shrinking.
Did you notice awhile back that Connie Chung is gone from CBS? That was Dan Rathers' doing. Bernie Goldberg to is gone.
John Stossel, I believe is gone from ABC. He was too conservative for their taste.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Summit Rep-
When I said that you say the same thing about the main stream media, it is all about money and looking good. (Dan Rather got rid of Connie Chung because she was getting more of his air time than he liked.)
All of those journalists are millionaires making millions per year. So don't put Rush in a category all by himself.

The liberal bias is so pervasive in the television networks, that is has revitalized the radio, (talk radio). This is why the 'alternative' media audience is growing and the 'mainstream' audience is shrinking.
Did you notice awhile back that Connie Chung is gone from CBS? That was Dan Rathers' doing. Bernie Goldberg to is gone.
John Stossel, I believe is gone from ABC. He was too conservative for their taste.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

SR - apparently you've taken training classes on how to be a parrot. Yes, Rush does need to look good to his supporters...just like every newscaster in existence. Yes, Rush does need to make money...just like every newscaster in existence. Where on earth did "self-preservation" come in here, btw? And, uh, screening calls is talk show protocol. If you ever listened to his show you would know that he lets on a TON of callers who disagree with him; they just screen the calls of people whom they think might get unruly and start cussing him out on live air, etc. It's not an exact science. Anyway, you're going to need to show me a quote to convince me that "he even admits on his show he only allows people on that make him look good". I can say "Well, Nancy Pelosi said that she thinks the Chinese should be completely eliminated", but no one is going to believe me unless I provide them with her quote. Give me Rush's quote here, bud.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

F4 Phantom?

A tight formation of Camloc, Dzus, cotter, taper, clevis, lock pins, cable ends, pulleys, turnbuckles, rod ends,hinges, pins, bushings, springs, clips, grommets, seals, AN fittings including elbows, reducers, tee's, nuts, plugs, hose clamps, Breeze clamps, speed clamps, MS21919 cushion clamps, AN742 plain clamps,
solid rivets, Hi-Lok, Cherry, Cherrylock, CherryMax, eye bolts, close-tolerance, clevis, and just plain ole' AN bolts all held together by safety wire, Devcon aluminum, Devcon steel, aircraft fuel cell sealant 1551 B 1/2 and speed tape to mention a few, all flying in harmony!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I forgot the Huck Bolts and JO'Bolts!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Bella- Your global warming must be on vacation. Matter of fact, here where I live, we've been experiencing below normal temps since October of 2008. That's over a year. What a vacation for global warming.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Look at the huge arctic blast our country is experiencing. 4/5's of the country is effected. Some areas are seeing low temperatures that haven't been seen in those areas in three decades. Citrus and vegetable crops are in danger. I don't have to go further as you all have been aware of this weather. What I'm getting at here is that we always experience this kind of weather. There is no difference than the 1960's 70's.........

I live in the north and every year is the same, record lows are broken every year as the temps fluctuates all the time. We were seeing high temps at -16 below zero, and lows were -28 below zero about 3 weeks ago. All were below normal. Now January is just as cold but this is normal. We have seen temps 30 to 40 degrees higher than normal but doesn't mean a damn thing in regards to global warming.

Last summer was one of the coolest summers in decades. We didn't hear to much about global warming last summer.
One thing that I heard last summer about what is happening with the global warming since we're experiencing one of the coolest summers in quite awhile.

The Democrats replied with something to the effect-

"That's natural in global warming, the temperatures will eventually go back up again."

Well, I for one am so glad they cleared that up!!!

Just wait until spring and summer, if we have record highs, we will no doubt hear the global alarmists crying out that we have to do something.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

You know, Wyatt, I've picked up something really interesting about liberals and climate crises. Back in the 70s, when they were all screaming about a global Ice Age, and then the temperatures started going back up, here's what they said: well, the earth's temperature is determined in a large part by the water temperate (since the water covers a lot of the earth), so if the water is cold, the earth is cold. Well, since it's so cold, the glaciers have stopped melting into the sea and are staying frozen for more of the year, so the water isn't cooled down as much, so the earth is warmer even though we are about to experience an Ice Age crisis.

So, if the earth cools down, it's ICE AGE! And if the earth heats up, it's ICE AGE! Convenient.

Here's what they're saying now, 40 years later: we are experiencing a global warming crisis. Yes, the earth has cooled down the past few years, but that's because the excess temperatures have melted more of the glaciers, which sent more ice water into the oceans, which cooled down the earth's temperature. So, we are still experiencing global warming, it just doesn't feel that way.

So, if the earth heats up, it's GLOBAL WARMING! And if the earth cools down, it's GLOBAL WARMING! Wow. I wish I knew of ways to apply logic like that to everyday stuff...like convincing my parents to buy me a Ferrari, for instance: if I'm late to work, it's because my car is too slow, so I need a Ferrari! If I get to work early, it's because I was worried that my car was too slow, so I started speeding, so I need a Ferrari to eliminate that worry!

Interesting.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I want to revisit the gun movement issue -
I remember reading a number of posts where the persons were worried about HSUS and Peta being an enemy of our gun rights. I felt compelled to share the following with ALL of you as I have alot of literature on anti-gun movement. Believe me, the HSUS and Peta palls in comparison.

We are in trouble with our second amendment. There is over 320 million citizens of our country but only 70 million are gun owners. Of those non gun owners, some aren't against our rights to own guns but I believe that we are out numbered and add to that, the worldwide movement is against us. We have many anti-gun politicans that are against our rights to own guns, starting with the President, his administration, the vise president, Pelosi, Eric Holder, Schumer, Clinton, (Both of them) and many more.

Please copy the list below as that is why I posted it. Do research on the subject, use www.cuil.com to research as they don't keep track of what anyone does for searches. Buy books on the subject. Another author to look for his books is John Lott. Two of his books are "The Bias against Guns" and "More Guns Less Crime."

The following are excerpts from a book of mine. "The Global War On Your Guns" by Wayne Lapierre

NSO's- non governmental organizations.

Organizations-

IANSA- (International action Network on Small Arms) Billionaire George Soros's protégé, Rebecca Peters, runs the IANSA which coordinates the gun prohibition efforts of groups around the world, including the Brady Campaign in America. IANSA claims at least 500 accomplices worldwide and is fund with countless millions from governments (including ours), international foundations, and billionaires like Soros. In spreading its dangerous doctrine of civil disarmament, IANSA receives the patronage of the same governments that push gun prohibition at the U.N. In effect, IANSA is the cutting-edge public relations arm of the U.N.'s gun prohibition campaign. Rebecca Peters was very forthright in saying that the gun prohibition movement was aimed squarely at Americans: "Americans are people like everyone else."

SAS - (Small Arms Survey) One of the most unique and dangerous antigun organizations in the world. Switzerland

CHD- (Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue) Switzerland. Funded by foundation money and grants from the governments of Australia, Canada, Denmark, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the U.K. and the U.S. The CHD has made opposition to civilian possession of firearms its own particular cause.

Amnesty International

BASIC- (British American Security Information Council): Its main focus is on nuclear issues,but it has been active on the "small arms issue" for ten years.

Bonn International Center for Conversation- A German disarmament thin tank.

GRIP - Brussels: One of the most active international antigun NGOs, it has produced numerous reports on firearms marking, tracing, and brokering.

ISS- (Institute for Security Studies): a South African think tank.

OXFAM- a U.K. based peace and disarmament NGO.

Ploughshares- a major Canadian "peace" NGO, extremely active in the small arms issue from the very start.

Saferworld- major U.K. peace organization.

SIPRI- (Stockholm International Peace research Institute), Sweden: also active in the small arms issue for almost ten years.

The following individuals are leaders of the international gun-ban movement:

Philip Alpers, New Zealand; Former television producer, now a "gun control" researcher.

Ilhan Berkol, Belgium: GRIP

Loretta Bondi, U.S.: John Hopkins University

Cate Buchanan, Switzerland: Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue

Wendy Cukier, Canada: Ryerson University

Owen Greene, U.K.: Bradford University

Adele Kirsten, South Africa: Gun Free South Africa

Edward Laurence, U.S.: Monterey Institute of International Studies.

Lora Lumpe, Norway: Norwegian Initiative on Small Arms Transfers

Sarah meek, South Africa: Institute for Security Studies.

Rebecca Peters, Australia: IANSA

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

WOW dukkillr- For a minute, you had me confused. But then I realized you were doing a top !ss job of imitating Bella, I mean a liberal way of explaining things. I'm with you, it is real hard to keep up with their junk science logic.

Hey, look at my list of antigun movement orgs oin the world. Buy the book I mentioned, it will scare you to death and you might want to sleep with your guns. I'm not kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I forgot to put this in, it is important ,the list of organizations is the same-
OTHER INTERNATIONAL ANTIGUN GROUPS:
WHO AND WHAT GUN OWNERS FACE

While IANSA works with American gun-ban groups, most of the active international antigun NGO's are not from the U.S. and,with the possible exception of Amnesty International, are not well known in this country. THEY MAKE UP A FRIGHTENING NETWORK OF ACTIVISTS:

IANSA- (International action Network on Small Arms) Billionaire George Soros's protégé, Rebecca Peters, runs the IANSA which coordinates the gun prohibition efforts of groups around the world, including the Brady Campaign in America. IANSA claims at least 500 accomplices worldwide and is fund with countless millions from governments (including ours), international foundations, and billionaires like Soros. In spreading its dangerous doctrine of civil disarmament, IANSA receives the patronage of the same governments that push gun prohibition at the U.N. In effect, IANSA is the cutting-edge public relations arm of the U.N.'s gun prohibition campaign. Rebecca Peters was very forthright in saying that the gun prohibition movement was aimed squarely at Americans: "Americans are people like everyone else."

SAS - (Small Arms Survey) One of the most unique and dangerous antigun organizations in the world. Switzerland

CHD- (Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue) Switzerland. Funded by foundation money and grants from the governments of Australia, Canada, Denmark, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the U.K. and the U.S. The CHD has made opposition to civilian possession of firearms its own particular cause.

Amnesty International

BASIC- (British American Security Information Council): Its main focus is on nuclear issues,but it has been active on the "small arms issue" for ten years.

Bonn International Center for Conversation- A German disarmament thin tank.

GRIP - Brussels: One of the most active international antigun NGOs, it has produced numerous reports on firearms marking, tracing, and brokering.

ISS- (Institute for Security Studies): a South African think tank.

OXFAM- a U.K. based peace and disarmament NGO.

Ploughshares- a major Canadian "peace" NGO, extremely active in the small arms issue from the very start.

Saferworld- major U.K. peace organization.

SIPRI- (Stockholm International Peace research Institute), Sweden: also active in the small arms issue for almost ten years.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

It really is junk science. Via their 1970-2010 logic, you can use the exact same temperature stats to prove global cooling or global warming. Nice, huh?

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I wondering what the alarmists are going to say we must do to combat global cooling- Cut down EVERY tree on the planet?
Read the following- It is a link from a U.S. government site.

Report: Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling (Daily Tech – February 26, 2008)

Excerpt: All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously. A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here.
The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to erase nearly all the global warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year time. For all sources, it's the single fastest temperature change every recorded, either up or down. […]
Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on. No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

9 degrees in Arkansas and -1 in the morning predicted, still awaiting for global warming, we call it SPRING!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Hey Clay-
Right now in Minnesota it is 4 below and that is our high for the day. Wind chill is 25 below.
Tonights low is suppose to be 28 below.
I'm with you about waiting for global warming which is called spring. It's been called that for over 100 years.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Hey dukkillr-
If your parents can't afford a Ferrari for you, you can still get one. Just apply the liberal logic of global warming to your need of a Ferrari to the government and I'm sure that they will give you a grant for one!!!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Well I see Bella doesn't like some of my posts, acouple of dukkillrs too. Who else is active on this blog that disagrees, not many, maybe one other. Odds are it is Bella.
Bella- Whats the matter, don't you like the evidence at hand? There will be more from a senate report soon. Or maybe it's the logic of it all you can't handle.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Just saw an article today on Slate - record cold temperatures this decade. Global warming? Yeah, right. Geeeenerally speaking, when people say "global warming" or "global cooling", they mean that the earth's average temperature is getting hotter or colder...but I guess that's too simplistic for Dr. Hansen types.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Here is a website to look at. Over 200 pages with many, many links. So much info that you never have to cuil search global warming again. Its from the
U.S. Senate committee on ENVIRONMENT & PUBLIC WORKS.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&Content...

Dukkillr and Clay, you will this site. you had better save it, or download the PDF Report for future reading,and research.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Meant to say - you will like this site. I don't know what "you will this site." means.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Global climate change or global warming if you prefer means that as heat is energy, if you put more heat into climate systems you have more energetic systems. If you actually look at the weathermaps you will see that the Jet Stream is radically looping north and south zigzagging across the continent bringing actic air to zones that don't normally recieve it. So you guys feel unaccustomed cold air and think that makes climate change a crock. But the very wildness of the Jet Stream is evidence of enhanced global turbulence in weather systems. The unpredictability was predicted, so to speak. Ever drop an ice cube into boiling water and look at it's infra red signature as temperatures equalize. Ice floats and cold water sinks so the water will roil till temperatures equalize. The record cold spells here and there are a result of a lack of equalibrium in climate systems, just as Katerina was symptomatic of global climate change (but then you guys like to blame liberals for Katerina, as well as everything else not nailed down).
The Gulf Stream is powered by something called the Halide Cycle, a vast salt water temperature engine transferring heat from the Equator to the Arctic. Warm salty water flows north on the surface then cools, sinks and completes the circuit. Unfortunately If the Ice cap on Greenland thaws (which has been) cold fresh glacial melt comes down through the Davis Strait, and meets the Gulf stream and interrupts that Halide Cycle (which powers the Gulf Stream). Yank the plug on the Gulf Stream and a lot of places suddenly get colder. A lot of places people like to live are warmed by the Gulf stream (New England, The Maritimes in Canada, Ireland, Britain, Scandinavia, France), Pull the plug and not only does interrupted heat exchange in the tropics cause those places to get even hotter, but the temperature gradients becoming "steeper" would cause weather to become even wilder. We are certain only of experiencing wild fluctuations in climate and yes agriculture is and will be threatened. Fortunately the agriculture that is most at risk is the very industrial, monocrop oriented style of agriculture that we need to move away from anyway. With diversified planting if one crop does poorly another does well, so the risk is lessened for the farmer. With a monocrop when adverse effects hit the crop, you loose everything you went into hock for in the spring.
But disbelieve if you like, wait and see. Do nothing except ridicule and wait for the water to rise. Like I said, I already changed my way of living, up here on the high ground, I'm being prudent according to my lights. So you do nothing except scoff. Fine with me, wait and see. We can see in a decade who is still in a position to scoff.
By the way I don't need Dr. Hansen to believe in what I see with my own eyes. The way we have lived is not sustainable, we must change, whatever the weather does. Our dependence on toxic fossil fuels has damaged the earth and we have alternatives. While I still drive an IC engine car (my Jeep) I have already converted 90% of my farm equipment to electric and I recognise that my dear old Jeep will likely be the last IC engined vehicle I ever own. I know many people resist change, but as they say, change is the only constant in life. When things change one can resist change, deny change, accept change or take advantage of change. Which approach would you think would give best results in a dynamic system. I have always thought it best to attempt to adapt to changes I see on the horizon. If you see rain clouds, get an umbrella! Cursing the clouds or making fun of them will not keep you dry when the rain comes down. So deny all you like, Scoff all you like, we'll see if it keeps you dry when the rains come. Most Americans have so insulated themselves from the natural world that change will likely come as a complete surprise. But while folks may disagree about the details, everybody has to agree, the times, they are a changin'...

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

You know, one thing that bugs me the global warming crowd is that they insist on calling it "climate change", instead of global warming. Are you guys so afraid of being ridiculed by sensible people if you use that term that you have to rely on a neutral phrase? Of course climate change exists, climates always change! I could be arguing for global cooling and say climate change! Say what you mean, for once.

According to scientific laws, the amount of energy on earth stays constant: you can't just "put more heat into climate systems" without taking energy away from someplace else. Everything works in cycles. The earth heats up and the earth cools down, it never stays on a level plane because it is always transferring energy back and forth. Why freak out? It's just the way nature works.

There is never "equilibrium" in climate systems, Bella, everyone knows that. I fail to see your point on the Gulf Stream: yes, if it went away bad things would happen, but no one is saying that it IS going anyway. Not even the global warming scientists are going that far. The Jet Stream is not "radically looping north", it is merely shifting its position back and forth like it has done for forever. You're starting to remind me about the Y2K people who used the same "scoff if you want to, I adapt to changes on the horizon" line. The calm ones were right back then, and they are right now.

Oh, congrats. Now your entire argument has dwindled down to "I don't need proof, I can see with my own eyes". I'm reminded of the time when you ridiculed me for going up against your "scientists" and "sober doctors", saying that it was my word against the scientific world's word. Now that things have been reversed, I suppose you are saying that you are smarter than the 30,000+ scientists that I have on my side? The physicists who said that Hansen was a lunatic? The scientific journals that blast the people who "exaggerate the climate change crisis"? Who's being arrogant and naive now?

You have no proof at all of global warming. You say "the way we have lived is not sustainable"...how so? Can we have some elaboration here? There is no crisis. Give me hard numbers; prove to me that driving Hummers is going to cook the world. We are in a CYCLE, not a CRISIS. Yes, coal is going to eventually run out sometime in this next millinieum...which is why we are constantly coming up with new technology. No sweat. Our way of life IS sustainable.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Bella- Go to this site I posted above, Its from the
U.S. Senate committee on ENVIRONMENT & PUBLIC WORKS. Read some of it, you'll learn something.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&Content...

Stop drinking the Liberal Kool-aid you free thinker!!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Analogy of the Spew. Short one, no tim for the rest.

Bella- So you guys feel unaccustomed cold air and think that makes climate change a crock.
Wyatt-That unaccustomed cold air is called WINTER.
Bella- But the very wildness of the Jet Stream is evidence of enhanced global turbulence in weather systems.
Wyatt- The Jet Stream has always been wild, it does what it wants to. Nothing has changed with that.
Bella- The unpredictability was predicted, so to speak.
Wyatt- No comment on this statement. It speaks for itself.
Bella- The record cold spells here and there are a result of a lack of equalibrium in climate systems,
Wyatt- No, it's called WINTER.
Bella- just as Katerina was symptomatic of global climate change (but then you guys like to blame liberals for Katerina, as well as everything else not nailed down).
Wyatt- That was called a hurricane, wasn't the first and it won't be the last. Nobody blame liberals for Katarina. The Liberal aren't that powerful.
Bella- With diversified planting if one crop does poorly another does well, so the risk is lessened for the farmer. With a monocrop when adverse effects hit the crop, you loose everything you went into hock for in the spring.
Wyatt- You just explained farm s planning crops, so what.Our farmrs here plant many different kinds of crops every year. If they lose any crops, their "crop insurance" pays them for their loss.

Everthing else you talked about is the constant changing weather patterns.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I believe a few pages back I was telling You it was Winter... Go have some antacid belch.
Changing weather patterns is Global! Global climate change.
And tell the residents of the Seychelles and Bangladesh that the oceans aren't rising! Deny deny deny....I thought I made it clear that I don't care about Belches opinions anyway, now ?Belch is for reasons unknown to psychology is trying to pick my posts apart, perhaps in some vain egotistical effort to make me look bad. Gee Belch, you must have too much time on your hands!
(look, now he will try to tell me I should have too much time on my hands and I should get to my housework or something)
I see a major issue here is that of gender, as a gun totin' huntin' fishin' female I tend to swim upstream more often as not anyway, but the notion that I, with a different sort of biological imperitive, different motivators and different education should hold the same views as men is just silly. I see no reason why men should control the agenda when women are 51% of the population (except soon, China and India where they abort girl babies in preference for boys). Your inane assertion of Christian Dominance is not actually about Christianity, but about Patriarchy, which is why so many things fundies go off on are related to sex. The Raping Sex wants to keep it's hegemony. Well I'm for democracy, which says people are equal and males do not dominate women except if the women let them. I didn't spend years in the dojo to live in fear of men. I spent years in the dojo so that NO man gets my subservience (except lawful police officers, but they come in both genders).
You Patriarchal types have done a lousy job running the planet anyway, about time the place got run more fairly. With Men in charge for the past two millenia the planet has been polluted overcrowded and laid waste. But Gaia is waking up! I have heard Her voice, She ain't happy! So call it what you will, the labels don't matter, but batten down yer hatches if you have a lick o' sense. If you don't wanna, well it it is like that joke about the guy sittin' on the roof of his house after a flood, and a guy in a canoe comes by and offers to rescue him and he says no, Jesus was coming to save him so he was gonna wait. Water gets deeper after a while and another boat comes by and the boatman offers to take the man on the roof aboard, but he says "no, Jesus will save me", and there he sits. Water keeps risin' and then the man is pushed to his very roof peak to stay dry as the flood swirls about his drowned house. A helicopter swoops in then and drops a ladder, the crew chief yells "grab it! we'll haul you off" but the man on the roof says "Jesus will save me" and he don't grab. Then the flood surge swept the house off'n it's foundations, the house, unpinned collapsed in upon itself, the man fell into the swirling waterborne wreckage, where unable to swim, he drowned in short order. Approaching the Pearly Gates he asks St. Peter why Jesus didn't save him, and Peter replys "why, we sent you two boats and a helicopter!"
Belch have you seen the hundreds of thousands of acres planted in nothing but soybeans? That is the type of monocropping that is bad for the environment and can lead to wholesale crop losses and blights. Remember the Irish potato famine? It happened because the Irish poor all planted and subsisted on the same variety of potato. A blight hit and wiped out that kind of potato and the starvation was massive. But some people would rather not remember that history repeats itself.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Yes, Bella, it is Global Climate Change! But it is NOT manmade, and it is NOT a crisis, for crying out loud...
...and it is not global warming.

Seychelles and Bangladesh? Oh wow, I'm sure I can find some area in the world where the water levels are going DOWN too. Big deal, they operate off of the monsoon system anyway.

WHERE THE BLANK DID GENDER COME IN??? Are you that much of a loser, Bella, that you can't hold a rational argument without crying "oh, you're being mean to me!" I never mentioned Christian Dominance or Patriarchy or anything! I thought you had more respect for yourself than this. Stop sobbing like a little girl and get with the program.

Dare I ask who "Gaia" is? And, uh, what does monocropping have to do with global warming?

Anyway, on the topic of gender (since you brought it up), I'm not being chauvinistic or anything (although technically chivalry is chauvinistic, and most women seem to love it), but I think it's telling that there has never been a female in the Navy SEALS. Or in the Delta Force. Or in several other SpecOps goups. Yes, in a lot of things men and women are equal...but not in all. It makes me sick when they loosen up the firefighting qualification rules (such as being able to carry a 150 pound weight so far) just so that women can qualify for political correctness. Men have a physical advantage, period, and I'm not being sexist when I say that. Ask anyone in the medical field.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

SpecOps groups, not SpecOps goups. Typo.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Global climatic change is a threat to a lot of people you just don't give a dam about Ducky, if not presently to you. People have trashed the planet, or we wouldn't have an island of floating plastic garbage in the Pacific twice the size of Texas and a "Dead Zone" south of NOLA of red stinking algal poisoned Gulf that nothing can live in because the anarobic bacteria has stripped all the oxygen out of the water. Perhaps you believe like Reagan was quoted to say, that "trees cause pollution". We been crappin' in our own nest too long and we gotta change our ways. One of the problems is that industry and and BigAgro refuse to pay the whole costs for their operations, continually looking for shortcuts intended to improve the profit margin. There are a lot of sick people in the world because of industrial attempts to cut corners. Toxic dumping whether in river systems, landfills or smokestack emissions has caused major effects on ecosystems. How many dead stinking trickles of brown filth (that used to be trout streams) have you encountered Ducky? If you ain't seen none you are blind or in Alaska. Don't you notice how the evergreens beside the highway have brown needles on the side that meets the road? By rights those branches should be the greenest on the tree, because of better sun and less crowding but no, you have half alive conifirs, brown sides to the roads. And you never noticed that or wondered why it might be so?
Of course it ain't your fault Ducky, you didn't cause global climate change, you are too young. You will have to deal with it, more so than old biddies like me, If I make another 30-40 years I'll be doing pretty good, but you can expect with good health to still be around 50-60 years from now, and unless we act to remedy some climate issues harsh reality will have caught up with humanity.
I am actually more concerned for the welfare of you younguns than I am about my own future, heck I'm pretty much set up, kid is growed up and I ain't havin' no more so I just anticipate a comfortable semi retirement but climate change is something you are going to be dealing with long after I'm underground. It concerns me when a young kid hold such reactionary ideas, I can understand reactionary old farts, but you claim to be a teenager, if you try to build your life based on the world of yesterday, you are likely to be "left behind". Young people need to look forward and I hope you don't wind up "marooned" when the exegencies of calamity come calling.
Women risk death in childbirth, men forget this. A man can make a baby with a woman and roll over and go to sleep with a smile on his face, but for the female that just begins the journey.
I think a lot of the attitudes you guys get all critical at me over are because I am the only female who posts in what is essentially a "boys club".That's where gender comes in. On the Rush Limbaugh thing this is especially stark, in that None of you guys seem to make the connection that if Rush could be so disloyal and selfish as to divorce and abandon his dying wife in order to marry this blondie half his age. When I say anybody who would do this is no representative of "family values" all the Rush lovers get on my case aS IF I am the immoral one and Rush is some paragon of virtue. But you guys don't care if Rush walks his talk or not, he tells you just what you want to hear. But he don't tell me what I want to hear. I am woman, my motivators are different, as is my perspective. This is why you can't change my mind and I think It unlikely that I will change any of yours, as I am just fine with you all in the genders that you now assign yourselves.
By the way I know women stronger than most men, A friend of mine is 7 feet tall and strong enough to lift a car (she's shy though, and doesn't like to go out much, cause guys are rude and she doesn't want to have to crush their tiny skulls like pistachios). Lizzie doesn't want to be a firewoman though.
I been in martial arts for a long time, and I have met quite a few women who could mop the floor with any man they met (it is technique not strength, that wins the fight). I am not aware of any fire department in my area that would hire a woman who couldn't pull her weight like a man, there are standards. There ain't no women in Spec Ops because women are still banned from combat. As far as Seals go they should have female Navy Seals. It wasn't a man who swam the English Channel first, It was Gertrude Erdle. Somethings, women can do better than men, like staying in water longer,(we have this extra layer of subcutanious fat that makes us curvier and also helps girls retain heat better in the water.) Women are often better shots than men, as we have better balance and less ego to get in the way. Think of Annie Oakley!
Chivalry is custom, most women are more vulnerable than men and are taken advantage of more than men, because they are not programmed with testosterone induced aggression. You don't hear of a lot of women raping men, but the converse is a major social problem.
The function of Chivaric politeness and gallantry in todays world reassures women that the gallant chivalrous male is likely not going to beat or ravish them. I am a firm believer in manners in the Real World, the please and thank you of polite discourse provide a social template that allows strangers to interact amiably.
The more gallant and chivalric politenesses mark the man who bows slightly and takes the hand of a woman (as if she were a lady even if she ain't) marks himself as man who respects others boundaries and might like to make a gracious and courtious inquiry. I find "political correctness" works both ways in societal politess. When the obvious is denied as per "correctness" this is another case of ideology trumping practicality. Yet some forms of outright oppression have been so common in sectors of society that they are viewed as normative and such things as persecution of minorities needs to be addressed or we will never attain the goal of an equitable society. I recognise that many who read this have no interest in an equitable society at all and would rather live in some culture stratified according to the rules of their own choosing. But America is based on equality and diversity and that is that!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Bella-
So you talked about the jet stream and the as you call it "Halide Cycle" which the proper name is " t
Thermohaline Circulation" which is only part of the large-scale ocean circulation that is in every ocean on our planet.
Bella- these are huge systems that do effect our weather but mankind hasn't done anything to affect these systems. We can't, impossible. They have been trying to find a way to stop a little system called a tornado and can't do that.
The Jet stream and the thermohaline circulation are vast systems that have been here longer than man has been here. You talk about "pulling the plug" on these huge systems, well that isn't possible.
You said-
"Jet Stream is radically looping north and south zigzagging across the continent bringing actic air to zones that don't normally recieve it." Well, that is nothing new. That happens on a regular basis. It has happened many, many times before. How long have you been living on this planet anyway.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Boy oh boy (Or should I say Girl oh girl)can you tell she is a woman or what. All that spewing going on. I hope you don't get any of it on yourself Bella.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Bella,Bella,Bella-
Oh, thank you for telling everyone it was winter. We all appreciate your thoughtfulness.
I couldn't tell it was winter by the below zero temperatures,
all the snow we have and all the snowmobiles zipping by everywhere.
You say -The changing weather patterns is Global! Global climate change.
Well, if that is what you want to call it, fine,
but we have been calling it seasons,- Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter.
The beauty of this planet is that the seasons happen all over the globe.
So your are right, it is Global climate change, every 3 months, it changes.

You don't care about my opinions because you are a liberal.
You don't listen to other views because they are different from yours.
I'm not picking your posts apart, I'm only pointing out the discrepancies, and the outlandish remarks.
Half the time it seems that you are high on something because you don't make sense most of the time.

Patriarchal types?
That is a label YOU put on us just like when you called us extremists and compared us to the terrorist extremists.
No one is running the planet. What drug are you on anyway?
Ohhh wait, is that the one world government you're talking about?
That hasn't happened yet.

NO, I have never seen anywhere in this country where
" hundreds of thousands of acres planted in nothing but soybeans" or any other "one" crop.
I love this, your little history lesson, "Remember the Irish potato famine?"
Oh yes, and so does everyone else, (It happened back in the mid 1800's I think. something about potato blight.) as do the farmers.
That was their main food they grew, and they didn't have the diversity of different crops to plant.
It also caused mass emigrations.
Is that when Massschusetts first family, the very liberal Kennedys' emigrated from Ireland.
Maybe your state has a state holiday celebrating the famine which brought them over here. Just guessing.
I live in the red river valley, which is referred to as the bread basket of the world.
There are hundreds of thousands of acres, just like in other every area that farms.
All farmers are diverse in planting crops.
But it's not just the scenario of one kind of crop not doing well, but that each crop uses different minerals from the soil.
It's called CROP ROTATION. They never plant the same crop in the same field two years in a row for that reason.
You talk as if farmers don't know what they're doing. Maybe in Massachusetts, but nowhere else.
If farmers lose any crops, even one third, they still get reimbursed.
It's called CROP INSURANCE. They never take a loss.
Sometimes they don't make a profit when they lose a crop, but they do get something back.
It's just like car insurance, get into an accident, they reimburse you for the damage.

And what the hell does that have to do with Global warming anyway?
CO2 does not care if there is one crop planted or one hundred different one.
All plants, regardless of it's origin, uses CO2.

When you said-
"You Patriarchal types have done a lousy job running the planet anyway, about time the place got run more fairly.
With Men in charge for the past two millenia the planet has been polluted overcrowded and laid waste.
But Gaia is waking up! I have heard Her voice, She ain't happy!
So call it what you will, the labels don't matter, but batten down yer hatches if you have a lick o' sense."

Do they know you left the hospital?
None of this makes any sense, we are not under a patriarchy rule.
You just accused men (not women) for pollution, overcrowdedness and the planet being layed to waste.
I do believe women cause pollution just as much as men, like when you drive your "IC engine" Jeep.
Men had help with overcrowdedness. We couldn't have done it without women.
(By the way I have no children,so, using your theory, you 're contibuting to overcrowding not me.)
Who Is "Gaia" anyway, one of your many gods I suspect.
What drug are you on?
Good thing Gaia is female, you have someone to chat with about your hatred toward the male gender.Be

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Bella - we were talking about GLOBAL WARMING, not plastic pollution or toxic dumping or anything else. Can't you defend global warming?

As for being a "boys club", a lot of the females I know are conservatives who backed Sarah Palin all the way. It's not a boys club, and your gender never even entered my mind when we were arguing about the economy or anything else. Quit whining.

Oh congrats, you know a few women who can kick butt. There are always exceptions. As a whole, however, men are the physically stronger group. This is not an argument, this is a fact. The Navy SEALS don't want females because females are emotionally and physically incapable of operating in the elite group. It's not just the soldiers, either; the psychiatrists and doctors who work with them refuse to endorse letting females take part because they know that a female would not be able to make it. They have let women take part in the Navy SEAL training exercises before, as a test, and not one of them came close to passing. Women are physically and mentally INCAPABLE of participating in these elite fighting units in the US military.

Firefighters - yes, there are standards...and many stations were forced to lower their standards several years ago because they weren't meeting their politician-set quota of female firefighters. It happened in Maryland, where I used to live. Your average woman can't hold her own physically against your average man, that is a simple fact of life.

As for being better shots, WHATEVER! I've seen women with egos twice the size of their male competitors, btw. Better balance? Sure, nice joke.

As for Rush divorcing his wife, at least he had the decency to divorce her and not just cheat on her like Clinton, Edwards, Spitzer, Letterman, and a host of other liberals have done to their wives.

Chivalry is based upon the differences in men and women, not upon their equality. When I go on a date, I walk on the side of the sidewalk closest to the road...why? When we go to a coffee shop, I hold open the door for my girlfriend...why? Because I am acknowledging that we are different and, as a female, she is the one who should be protected and treasured. If we were totally equal in everything, chivalry would be an oxymoron.

Men and women are not equal, and this country was not based upon equality and diversity. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against women voting or women being in the armed forces, but I am against lowering the standards just so that they can take part and so everything can be "equal". It's sickening, really, putting our soldiers' lives in danger for political correctness.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Oh btw, Bella, I noticed that you said "there ain't no women in SpecOps because women are still banned from combat". What? Banned from combat? Did you seriously mean to say that? We have women fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan EVERY DAY, in case you didn't notice.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Oh btw, Bella, I noticed that you said "there ain't no women in SpecOps because women are still banned from combat". What? Banned from combat? Did you seriously mean to say that? We have women fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan EVERY DAY, in case you didn't notice.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Sorry about the typos above.

Bella-
There is climate change that is threatening anyone. You are drinking too much of the liberal kool-aid. So you were just describing the pollution problem of industry and the consumption problem of many people around the world. So, what is the point here Bella. We all know this stuff. What do you want to do about it. The conifers with brown needles along the roadways is caused from two things. If they are on the south side of road, they aren't getting enough sunlight, the other thing is the salt they put on the road to get rid of the ice. Then the plows come thru and the snow gets sprayed on the trees closest to road. The salt will kill turn the needles brown.
The point is that it has nothing to do with your so called climate change.
You can spew with the best of them, (Liberals, I'm talking about.)

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Sorry again, forgot a word in first sentence.Should be-There is NOT climate change that is threatening anyone.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Bella-
I forgot to ask you what did you mean when you said-
"But the very wildness of the Jet Stream is evidence of enhanced global turbulence in weather systems. The unpredictability was predicted, so to speak."

What did you mean by that?

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Bella-
I hate to make another comment (Pick your posts apart.) about something you said but I'm compelled to. You said "Patriarchal types have done a lousy job running the planet anyway, about time the place got run more fairly."

So by that you mean that if women were in charge, the planet would be in better shape? You really do have a hatred toward men, don't you.
Are you a member of NOW?

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Hey dukkillr-
I'm going to answer for Bella. She won't do it anyway. When has she ever answered our questions.
She can't defend Global warming as it is a concocted falsehood the liberals like to believe.
But you know this, and I think Bella does too.
She just can't admit the libs are wrong.
Clay hit the nail on the head when he said the liberals SIN.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

A Dozen Barack Obama Jokes:

He has what it takes, to take what you've got !

(1). Q: What's the main problem with Barack Obama jokes?
A: His supporters don't think they're funny and no one else thinks they're jokes.

(2). Q: Why does Barack Obama oppose the Second Amendment?
A: It stands between him and the First.

(3). Q: What's the difference between Rahm Emanuel and a carp?
A: One is a scum sucking bottom feeder and the other is a fish.

(4).Q: What's the difference between Greta Van Susteren and Barack Obama?
A: Greta only talks out of one side of her mouth.

(5).Q: What does Barack Obama call lunch with a convicted felon?
A: A fund raiser.

(7).Q: What's the difference between Obama's cabinet and a penitentiary?
A: One is full of tax evaders, blackmailers & threats to society. The other is for prisoners.

(8).Q: What's the difference between a large pizza and the typical Obama backer?
A: The large pizza can feed a family of four.

(9).Q: What's the difference between Simba and Obama?
A: Simba is an African lion while Obama is a lyin' African.

(10).Q: If Pelosi and Obama were in a boat and it started to sink, who would be saved?
A: America !

(11).Q: Do you know Barack Obama's new campaign slogan?
A: "Yes we can !" is now "Yes you will !"

(12).Q: What is the 'new' General Motors convertible called and why does no on want to buy one?
A: The Pelosi; and its gawd ugly, with its top up or down !

The liberals are now requesting that we give Obama time. Personally, I'm wondering if... 25 to life would be appropriate?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

No comments, Bella? I thought number 5 was pretty funny...and number 1, and number 7...

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

dukkillr-
I like them all, but my favorites are #9 & #10. #8 has some good humor and truth to it.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I knew that Bella wouldn't answer any of my questions. She NEVER DOES!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I do believe in what Clay said about Liberals (Bella is definitely in the group.) “S” is for Shift, they Shift the subject to avoid the truth!
“I” is for Ignore the facts!
and
“N” is for Name Call when they are unable to “S”hift the subject and “I”gnore the facts they automatically default into “N”ame calling!
Bella, like all liberals DO NOT ADDRESS QUESTIONS FROM OPPOSING VIEWS. They think that if they don't answer the questions, that the views will go away. But reality is that the quwstions are real and go unopposed. (Until later)

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Okay, well, I guess the debate is over then! Dukkillr out.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Bella- Since you didn't answer my simple question, I assuming that you don't know what you meant when you said-

"But the very wildness of the Jet Stream is evidence of enhanced global turbulence in weather systems. The unpredictability was predicted, so to speak."

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I can't believe it!!!!!!
THE SPEWING HAS RUN OUT.
Bella- did you get ill or are you coming to your senses and can't admit it?

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from lday1207 wrote 4 years 8 weeks ago

what about the liberals that wanted to start their own country here, and the conservatives that did not. rush is an idiot and people who listen to him are idiots also. i say go away and start your own mag. no you cant do that, that would be too liberal.

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from VAturkeyaddict wrote 4 years 1 week ago

First off, this was very silly of F&S to do this because this is an outdoors magazine, not a political one, and Rush is the 1. backbone for the fight against the fascist government we have right now, which is trying to take away our second amendment rights. and 2. he is the leader for the people in America who oppose our supposed leader, to be able to have a voice. F&S you did yourselves in from me because when my subscription runs out, you better know that im not renewing it.

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from Nycflyangler wrote 3 years 50 weeks ago

Bring me the skin of Punkin. I need to cut some zonker strips to tie some flies with.

Anyone who delivers this will be gifted a dozen hand tied flies with strips from said cat.

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from whitetailhunter1 wrote 3 years 50 weeks ago

I am really amused by all your immature and childish arguing in a commentary forum. Either you have way too much time on your hands, or your priorities are seriously screwed up. This is a hunting magazine, and not a place to take cheap shots at others about their political views. Get a life.

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from VAturkeyaddict wrote 3 years 48 weeks ago

Not trying to say anything offensively, but you say we have too much time on our hands to comment on this, yet you went to the 6th page of comments to tell us that were immature, mhmm?

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 3 years 42 weeks ago

VAturkeyaddict_ You're absolutely right. He had to go thru to the 6th. page to post his remark.

Hey whitetailhunter1- Please explain what is childish or or immature about debating politics? The government screws with our lifes and we have the right to free speech. After all, this thread started out with a political theme. If you don't like it, why did you read up to the 6th. page?

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 3 years 42 weeks ago

And acouple more things whitetailhunter1,
I guess everyone has too much time on their hands as everywhere I go, I hear people talking about politics so I guess that means everyones' priorities are screwed up as well. (INCLUDING THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION.)

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from jplevine wrote 3 years 9 weeks ago

Wyatt Earp, it is dumb racist rednecks like you that make gun owners look bad. Stick500 finally showed that gun owners can be smart, and therefore liberal. And I hate to break it to you, but the NRA is looking out for handgun manufacturers, not gun owners.

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Post a Comment

from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

John, Where am I? South Florida, with mangos & alligators right in my backyard (literally). It's 85 degrees outside on Christmas day. I know you mean politically--like I said, free thinker. Not sold on Obama; hated Bush. I'm for civil rights for everyone--mine, yours, & the queer down the street too. If you (you, generic not personal) object to having the moral values of the animal rights wackos imposed on you, then it's hypocritical to insist on imposing your moral values on others. I've got strong moral values, but no desire to impose them on others.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Your morals are weak and you presume to impose them on others. You think hate is a virtue and you lecture me about morals. You think your puny little religion is the "one true faith" and the rest of the world is "bogus." That's exactly what the Catholics say, ducky, you self-rightious little pr!ck. I know you wouldn't have the courage to call me a coward to my face.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Seadog - it's not hypocritical if I'm right. I can have a problem with people who say that murder is A-OK imposing that moral on me, and it's not hypocritical if I impose a law on them to the contrary. Murder is wrong, and I don't care if banning it means imposing morals on others. There is such a thing as absolute truth, you know.

If you have strong moral values, but don't care what other people do, then I question how much you value your morals.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Whatever. At least I have morals that I stand up for. I never said that hate is a virtue; anyway, it's not hate to say that someone is wrong.
Oh wow, you sound like an ancient scientist saying "you think your puny little scientific laws are right, and you presume to say that my astrology is bogus." My puny little religion? I have the same religion as the Founding Fathers who started this whole country, pal. If I didn't believe that it was the one true faith, then I wouldn't be much of a believer, would I? At least I have the backbone to stand up for my faith and not hide behind the guise of "tolerance". Islam is false, Hinduism is false, Buddhism is false, Mormonism is false, and Catholicism is false. The pope is not infallible, Mary is not an intercessor, Purgatory doesn't exist, and the sacraments are bogus.

I wouldn't have the courage? hahaha look, old man, I'm 6'1", I've been a weightlifter for years, and I've trained in krav maga (Israeli streetfighting) and a Russian form of baritsu. You think I'm afraid of you? Think again.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Crimes like murder protect the rights of the victim. That's not imposing morality on anyone. I care a lot about what others do when they interfere with the rights of others. That's why I I favor stronger penalties for crimes with victims and expansion of the castle doctrine. Imposing the morals that some preacher poured into your brain onto others is itself immoral because it interferes with the rights of others. So ducky, you say you're right so that makes you right. Who the F are you? Bin Laden says he's right too. I know he's not right, but I know who he is and you're just some duck killer from BFE.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Ducky says "there's no such thing as absolute truth" but he's so sure that his "truth" is so absolutly correct that it needs to be imposed on all the world and everyone else's views are "bogus." Nice try, hypocrite.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

OK. I'm for laws against socialism because that protects the rights of entreprenuers and businessmen. I'm for laws against abortion because that protects the lives of babies. What's the difference?

Look, I'm not trying to force everyone to join my religion, but I see no need to refrain from saying that I believe that their religion is wrong. What's the problem there?

Why am I right? Because I believe in stuff that actually makes sense. This isn't rocket science, it's 2+2=4 stuff. I can prove everything I believe (which makes me right). Simple, dude.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Ducky said that "there IS such a thing as absolute truth"!!! Try READING my post next time!

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Ducky, you worship the same god as the catholics but they're false??? Your religion traces it's roots back to the catholics. Where did this sudden "truth" come from? Did god come down and say "oops, I was wrong?"

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

I'm still laughing. Seadog tried to paint me a hypocrite by inserting a "no" into my sentence when he quoted me. How low is that??

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Yeah, ducky, I read your post wrong. What you actually said is worse. You presume to know the absolute truth, so you're delusional. Or did god come talk to you. Should I call you Moses?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

My religion does not trace its roots back to the Catholics. It all started when Jesus ascended after the resurrection and the original church was left with the apostles as their spiritual leaders. After Christianity was legalized, some within the church tried a power-grab by claiming the Petrine doctrine gave them the power as mediators to God. The church eventually split on this, with the true believers sticking to what God actually taught and the false believers coming up with popes and sacraments and Purgatory and other tactics to maintain power. (Some genuinely believed in Catholic beliefs, I'm not trying to deny that, but the driving force of many in control was a lust for power.) Eventually things came to persecution by the Catholics through Bloody Mary and the Inquisition and the Church of England (they split off the Catholics but retained the same beliefs). Around this time the Reformation occurred, with the few remaining true believers spreading the faith despite constant persecution, and eventually the Pilgrims (some of the true believers) came over to America for religious freedom.

So it started out with Christianity and then split off into two groups known today as Protestants and Catholics. I'm a Protestant.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

I'm delusional? Uh huh, sure, it sounds like you're just confused. Murder is wrong: that is absolute truth. God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient: that is absolute truth. I just ate dinner: that is an absolutely true statement. What kind of a wacko are you?

Btw, God gave us his Holy Word through the Bible. Geez, I was sure that even Catholics believed in absolute truth! So you aren't sure about your religion after all? That's a big advantage I have over you: I have 100% faith in what I believe.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Ducky, I am very sure about my "religion." I'm not Catholic. I endured 13 years of Catholic education and they failed to brainwash me, as you have been brainwashed. My moral compass is internal, not imposed by the threat of some fictional heaven/hell scenario that even the various protestant sects can't agree on. You've reached an immature level of moral development. You follow; you do not lead. I'm a "wacko" to you because I am self sufficient, deriving my spirituality and morality from an internal process that does not require a santa claus, the devil, or the boogyman. I live by a strict moral code that is driven by the need to do what is right for it's own sake. I have no need to spread the faith because no greedy church stands behind me thirsty for funding to maintain it's existence. I have no need to impose my personal moral standards on anyone else.
Your certainty about your moral superiority and the "absolute truth" of the mythology of your faith are touching in a primitive sort of way. I'm sure the ancient Romans were equally blessed with the certainty of their superiority.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Oh, my bad. When you defend Catholics it throws me off.

SOOOO, basically you are a confused atheist. Wow. SO not impressed. Anyway, going back to absolute truth: if there isn't any, how are you "absolutely sure" that there is no God? How are you absolutely sure that you even exist? How can you be sure of anything if there is no absolute truth?

Putting absolute truth aside, let's talk about atheism. You say you have a "strict moral code". Okay, what makes it moral? What makes "right" right if there is no Higher Being? You say that I follow, instead of leading. How do you lead? You are just following the thousands of atheists that have gone before you who said the exact same stuff. Nice job with the memorized talking points; I've heard it all before.

Oh yes, very touching. (Btw, the Romans prided themselves on their tolerance for all religions and did not believe in "moral superiority". So much for that.) Is the fact that I also believe that 2+2=4 equally touching? In a primitive sort of way, of course?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

God gave you a choice

I hope and pray you choose wisely!

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

You assume too much. Because I've reached a higher level of moral development doesn't make me an athiest. But I guess in your narrow minded right wing no god but mine world, it does. My personal relationship with the creator is none of your dam^ business, but I live my morality for all to see. Maybe you do too, or maybe you just profess your faith like the stereotypical hypocritical Christian. I won't judge you on that--I don't know you well enough. I do know plenty of Christians that talk the Jesus & praise the lord sermon 24/7 but their moral compasses are broken. It's not being one of the sheep that makes you good & moral--it's how you live your life. I'll bet my soul on my life. I don't need to know which mythological version of the creator is true--for all I know they're all wrong. Yours would be as good as the next if it weren't for the moral deficiency of feeling compelled (just like PETA) to cram your views down everyone elses throats. Here's what I know for sure: if god is good, then I have nothing to worry about; if god is bad, you & I are both screwed.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

After further consideration, and considering Clay's input, there is a third alternative. Though I don't believe that god is bad (and I hope I'm right), most of the world seems to believe that god is a cruel trickster who would select his "chosen people" and bar all others from his graces. The Jews think they're it; the Catholics claim the same; I'll let the duck speak for himself but it seems he thinks only ducky protestants can go to heaven (or something like that--I know I'm a little irreverent sometimes). Maybe he picked the muslims--Allah forbid. lol If god picked ducky's group, ducky goes to heaven and seamutt is sol.

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from John L wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Yea, Clay shows up again.
Some day I would love to go through your file cabinet, you come up with the best quotes.
Barry, you are right, it sure veered off the topic.
Rush was definitely wrong on this one (and I count myself as a ditto-head) but I don't throw folks under the bus because of one disagreement. Or call them villians (sp?)

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from John L wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

seadog,
We have a common ground. Neither of us thinks the other is an all bad guy. I find a lot of common agreement with your last post, we, none of us, have all the answers. We (me, I, any of us)ain't that smart.
My favorite from the Bible "Love they neighbor as yourself"(or something to that effect).
We can disagree, argue, and "never the twain shall meet" but we cannot allow ourselves to descend to the level of bitterness, hatred or bloodshed going on in so many places in the world.
Anyway, hope that even you isn't SOL.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Back to the subject!

OK has anyone called Rush and asked him what really happened?

So he screwed up perhaps, but I'm not got to ramble on with off with his head!

This reminds me of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi who won a war by nonviolence. Put simply, the way he won is not by beating them on his own land, but in the streets of the invading Army! What he did was great, but the facts are with his beliefs if someone comes into your Country, into your Town, into your Home and takes it by gun point you should hand him the keys and gladly walk out. As you know Winchester, Browning and Smith & Wesson had a better way of dealing with the intruder!

Back to God,

Interesting thing I've noticed those who truly belief in God. They have defined God and went to put God into a Box. Another point of fact is "Divorce" is at the same percentile with Christians than none Christians which proves my case and point.

Take Marriage and God? You go thru rituals of a Marriage Ceremony as those who go thru Baptism and at the end you get a piece of paper showing you have done this so what is missing? All the Rituals and all the Ceremonies and all the Water in the World will not help you a bit without one thing and it’s called a “Relationship”! Since the day Mary and I have known each other we have raised an eyebrow and got into some heated arguments but anger was never an option and put it simply? Our Marriage is like the finest Wine on Earth!

To some Marriage, it’s only a piece of paper and manmade laws and vows.

To some Religion, it’s rituals and ceremonies.
Without a relationship, you broken your promise in Marriage, you failed to own up to responsibility and with Religion you’re just wet!

As I enjoy spoiling my Wife, she enjoys spoiling Me!

For Christmas we didn’t get each other anything, but we still have the greatest gift, EACH OTHER!

Catholic, Hindu or Jewish or whatever you are, your nothing more than just dust in the wind without a relationship!

Of all my Worldwide Travels and all 48 States traveling coast to coast putting on about a million miles the people who I have the most respect in and enjoy the most to be amongst is the Amish! Don't let their black horse and carriages, black cloathes and bowl cut haircuts fool you, they are much smarter than you will ever know.

Why you ask?

I had developed a "RELATIONSHIP" with the Amish,

"A RELATIONSHIP YOU WILL NEVER KNOW NOR UNDERSTAND!"

Relationship, do you know what a relationship is?

HERE'S YOUR SIGN!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

By the way,

Interesting thing I've noticed those who truly belief in God. They have defined God and went to put God into a Box?

You better go back to the closet were you put the box, you will find the box is empty!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Seadog - OOOOkay. So, you're not an atheist, but you refuse to tell us anything about your belief in God, if it even exists. Nice play.

Anyway, I do not believe that God "selects" certain people. I believe that He opened up a way of salvation for all men, and all we have to do is accept that gift and acknowledge that He is Lord. I am not saying that all protestants go to Heaven, I think we both know that there are many, many hypocrites out there polluting the church.

Here's my theology: God is perfect. He cannot tolerate any sin. But He still gives us the chance to make our own decisions, because if He didn't then we would basically be robots. If a person sins ONCE then they are gone, they have missed the boat and are headed to Hell. God is perfect and He can only tolerate things that are holy. However, to give man a way of salvation, God sent down His Son to earth to live as the perfect man and then die for our sins on the cross; after which He was resurrected in 3 days.

We have all sinned. I don't care how good your morals are, you have sinned and that sin will send you to Hell. However, there is a way out: according to Romans, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." I disagree with the Catholics because the Bible says that you CANNOT EARN your way into heaven; you either accept the gift or you don't.

No, Bella, I'm not Eastern Orthodox or part of any other such group. I'm a non-denominational Christian: I don't align myself with any major Christian denomination, I just go with what the Bible says and I worship on Sundays with a church of other Christians who believe the same way. (Hum, does that classify as free-thinking?)

Cyrus? Oh sure, he let them go back to their homeland (just as was prophesied 200 years earlier by Isaiah.) Not exactly a Savior. Jesus Christ was the only Savior because He was the only one who gave man the option of being saved SPIRITUALLY.

hahahaha sorry, Bella, it's a Liberty...although I can crawl underneath it to change the oil, you have to give me that one! I wanted a Ruby but I just couldn't afford it - I'm one of those guys who pays cash for everything - and my boss offered me a deal on the Liberty so I took it. Sorry to disappoint. What year is your YJ?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Bella - all faiths are not true. There is only one God, and He gave us His teachings through the Bible. No one has a "Right to encounter the Divine on their own terms"; God is all-powerful and it is up to us to encounter Him on His terms.

God doesn't "just want us to be happy", He is JUST. If we sin, we pay the price for our wrongdoing, just like in the real world. Unless we accept God's offer of salvation, of course...

Anyway, God SAYS in the Bible that He is the one true God - so either He's right or He's lying, which is a very un-Godlike thing to do. Which is why I am a monotheist, not a polytheist.

That being said, I share your admiration for the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans, but I also believe that they are wrong. Admirably wrong, yes, but still wrong.

Timothy McVeigh - Ann Coulter taught me that one. You haven't said ANYTHING about them that would make them a conservative, besides saying that they claimed to be. Can we get some evidence here?

KKK - I said SOME OF THEM WERE LIBERALS, not all. You CAN'T polarize a group like that! Get a grip, Bella.

Adolf Hitler - my comments were based upon the fact that they were socialists, which is completely anti-conservative and very liberal. They were also in favor of Big Government, which is again completely anti-conservative and very liberal. They don't fit the complete definition of the modern liberal, but they are scarily close (more than a few people on Obama's cabinet believe in eugenics, if that means anything to you.)

Who are you to say that whoever educated me took the opportunity to impose their own prejudices?!? I suppose you believe that all independent thinkers are liberals, huh? You are anything but a free-thinker: you were raised a Mormon, and you jerked away and hit some other end of the spectrum, where you are now parroting liberal argument after liberal argument. It's not like you are saying anything new, Bella, you are just as much a "parrot" as you make me out to be.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Gee Mr Wizard!

The individual who started family planing and Justice Black of the Supreme Court both were members of the KKK.

Lets see, Family Planing is one of the Liberal Branch's of controlling people were 4 out of 5 aborted are minorities and Justice Black used his power wrongly to control those who appose the KKK.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

We're finding a lot of common ground here. It must be the Christmas magic.
Dukkillr, your views on salvation still leave out most of the world. How are the namomamo in the depths of the Amazon jungle supposed to learn about Jesus Christ to accept him as their lord and savior? And is it fair to expect people born in places where Christianity isn't the dominant religion to evaluate their options and reach the conclusion you reached when their parents and teachers are instructing them in other faiths? Do you really think god is that cruel? I don't.
You can't just force everything into a dichotomy. If you are going to paint everything with a broad brush, you have to accept some of the fringe--some of the gray. You can't just kick the KKK out of the "conservative" club because they aren't good or because one ingredient is a pinch of liberalism. They're right wing racist extremists and you don't agree with them, but they're on your side of the proverbial fence that everyone keeps telling me to get off of. Similarly, if we're talking in terms of black or white, the liberals have to accept PETA, HSUS, the communists, and all their extremist groups. But the real world is never that simple--a true absolute dichotomy is virtually nonexistent. Even wet/dry gets messed up by damp. Liberal/conservative is even harder to clearly define, especially when hate mongers like Rush (remember Rush--this discussion started off about him) deliberately try to distort the definitions so one means good and the other means bad--as in KKK-bad, must be liberal.
I make my decisions and form my opinions based on rational thought. I evaluate facts that are known to me and use logical reasoning to make educated guesses about facts that I do not or cannot know. I do not presume to know the "absolute truth" about anything. To do so is extremely arrogant and immature. No human can know the absolute truth. You can have faith--there's nothing wrong with faith, but if you presume to know the absolute truth about god, you are fooling yourself and demonstrating your arrogance.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Clay, my wife & I didn't buy each other presents this year either. We do some years, but often we don't. She's a very special lady and we have an incredible relationship. I'm happy to hear that you are similarly situated. Having a solid loving and trusting relationship makes life really worth living and makes the problems so much easier to deal with. I wish that for everyone. We had a wonderful family Christmas yesterday. I hope everyone else did too. And, BTW, my wife is so special that she let me travel back & forth to the computer on Christmas day to play with dukkillr. lol Merry Christmas again, dukkillr, I enjoyed including our discussions in my Christmas this year.

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from John L wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Must be something in the "Christmas Magic".
Discussions (as in seadogs last line) have gotten more civil, with less name calling, and a lot more metaphysical.
Keep it up guys, we might be able to hunt/fish together after all.
Feliz Navidad, and Happy Nuevo Anno.
(that's just for you)
By the way, my wife got exactly what she wanted for Christmas (because she went out and got it and wrapped it) and my snowblower broke down, dang. Good thing I've got a good neighbor.
Let's all be good neighbors.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

My goodness!

Is this what you call tit for tat?!?
______________________________________

Anyhow’ what I see what the problem is those of you like many get caught up saying groups like the “KKK” for example are part of the Conservative and/or Christian group which in fact they are not! They say they are, but they are not! Take the Taliban, people call them Islamic Fanatics.

So let me see if I get this right, if a person or persons to do what they say is true according to some “Religion” and to do what the Religion originally says is wrong then does that make that person still part of that religion? NO! The person or persons is using what said religion as FALSE!

Listen, you folks need to get your head out of your armpits and identify and call what it really is. If I put on a gorilla suit and attack someone, then according to what everyone is saying that person was attacked by a gorilla regardless if it was a person in a suit or actually a gorilla. Same thing with Faith and Religion, Nancy Pelosi says she is Catholic and supports abortion while the Pope her Devine leader says it’s an abomination against God amongst other atrocities she has done!

The Ten Commandments is simple to understand and straight forward! Yet there are those who will pick and chose to makeup an Religion like taking pieces out of a box of chocolate and have it their way in their own image to suit their needs.

So don’t come to me saying groups like the KKK is part of a Right Wing Conservative’

“And do not forget the petty scoundrels in this regime; note their names, so that none will go free! They should not find it possible, having had their part in these abominable crimes, at the last minute to rally to another flag and then act as if nothing had happened!”
-From the fourth leaflet of the White Rose Resistance in Germany, 1942. Five students and a professor who wrote and distributed the leaflets were executed in 1943.

Isn’t how interesting how Liberals have always done this!

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Clay, you don't need to get your panties all in a wad ... sorry, let me rephrase that--Clay, the KKK discussion had a lot to do with the silly debate games that dukkillr & I were playing and very little to do with the substance of our disagreement. We all agree that the KKK is evil (if I'm wrong, please keep it to yourself--if you want to express that viewpoint, go ahead, but I can assure you I will resort to name calling of a nature that you haven't heard from me yet). The klan is certainly not mainstream conservative and it does not represent the views of typical Christian conservatives in any way. Dukkillr made an assertion in the heat of our discussion that the klan is liberal. He apparently (I won't speak for him) based this assertion on some (genuine, I believe) klan statements regarding "redistribution of wealth" and some other klan propaganda that appears to have a liberal slant to it. By tacit agreement (that means I didn't object--actually I called the rules cheap ... but I played anyway) I agreed to the "ducky rules" of debate--so I was required by the rules of the game to counter. I dislike the ku klux klan as much as the duck but the KKK is certainly not liberal by any stretch of the immagination. The klan's plan for wealth is to redistribute it back to white protestants--that's liberal? Try running with that theory & see how far it gets you. If you insist on a dichotomy, the klan is far right. I don't see the world in such simple terms. The KKK should be a non-issue, but now, with a half-black president, suddenly right wing racist extremists are back in the picture. You can't disown them if you divide the entire world into "liberals" and "conservatives" with no room for rational distinctions. I dislike labels but I'm not the one insisting on using them. I do not label myself as liberal or conservative but in this forum I am branded as a "liberal" according to the "infallable" dictate of the almighty Rush (LMAO), who in his divine majesty, has rewritten the dictionary for all his ditto heads to follow.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

God isn't cruel - He's JUST. He doesn't have to save anyone, but He chooses to give everyone the option. As for the namamamos in the Amazon, it's not like the Bible was only written in English until the 1900s: the original Christian church was persecuted and spread out to all parts of the world. You don't need the whole Bible to get saved, you just need to know about the salvation message.

Btw, I'm not pretending to be any type of expert on how God works, before the Bible was written down God had many different ways of communicating Himself to people. The bottom line is, God will ensure that everyone has a chance to come to salvation through Him. As far as "is it fair...", no, life isn't fair. BUT, everyone does get a chance.

KKK - okay, I'll admit that some of them do have conservative beliefs. I'm still contesting whether or not they fall onto the conservative side of the fence as a group, though. Btw, if you're trying to say that Rush says that everything bad is liberal, then I'm saying that Matthews, Letterman, Couric, and most of the MSNBC anchors say the same thing about the conservatives as well. (CNN is somewhat moderate, although their anchors definitely have leftist leanings.) Letterman's a perve, anyway.

It's not arrogant and immature to profess to know absolute truth! Barack Obama is president of the United States: that is absolutely true! How am I being arrogant here? Jehovah God SAYS that He is the only true God, and I'm not being arrogant/immature to believe what He says. If what you said was true, then we'd all be agnostics.

Aww, that's so sweet of your wife! Anyway, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

KKK (In response to seadog's last post, the one I wrote before it was to his previous ones) - redistribution of wealth PERIOD is liberal. I don't care if it's for white Protestants, conservatives are against ANY forced redistribution of wealth. ROW is a totally liberal standpoint.

AND, I was not the one to "dichotimize" them! Bella started it by referring to "white-supremacy groups" as conservatives, at which point I said that they were more liberal than conservative. Anyway, I'm agreed: they're a non-polarizable gray group. Can we move on here?

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

To John L, I think we would get along just fine hunting together. I am certainly not unaware that most people don't think just like me.
To all, the interests we share are much more important than those that divide us. As Americans we are one, even though we may disagree on the best path to take. As hunters, fishermen, and outdoorsmen(&women), we are "family" in many ways. I'm proud to be a part of this family, including those of you with whom I disagree.
This is about as touchy-feely as I get with anyone except my wife, so I'm going to sign off before I get the urge to growl at somebody.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Snowed and stranded, somewhere else. I'm sure you have heard of the storm from Canadian border down to Texas. I've got snow to move. I have read only acouple posts from where I left off days ago. Maybe I get back to it, maybe I won't. I'm sure I might have something to say but will not cover everything you guys have talkedabout ,(You've been busy.) I'm dukkillr has held his own as he always sticks to the facts.
Later...........................

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Duck, we agree on what's important about the ku klux klan. They don't represent you as a conservative; they don't represent me as a Southerner; and their views are immoral. I'll even go so far as to say that their version of Christianity is "bogus."
Sorry to nitpic, but I want to address one of your other side comments. The term "redistribution of wealth" is ordinarily associated with socialism, but the words redistribution of wealth have a much broader meaning. Ronald Reagan and Republicans since Reagan, with help from many Democrats, have succeeded in redistributing wealth from the middle class to the "uber-wealthy." Ergo, redistribution of wealth is not necessarily "liberal." I am vehemently opposed to Castro Cuba style socialist redistribution of wealth. I am a capitalist. But unregulated capitalism, with laws favoring consolidation of wealth in the hands of a few, is also an evil that we should fighting against.

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from John Stephens wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Obama should have won villain of the year simply for appointing Cass Sunstein as regulatory Zar, Tzar, Czar. Do you really want that nit-wit regulating your guns and hunting?

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from SAND BAGGER wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

MAN! I KNEW SOMETHING STINKS, I SEE YOU GUYS STILL RIDING BELLA'S DONKEY I SEE!

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from SAND BAGGER wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

SHE BE TAKING YOU BOYS FOR A RIDE! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella - I didn't say I know all the truth there is to know, but I do say that I know some certain truths about God: there is only one, He is omnipotent, omnipresent, etc...

FYI, the commandment against gays is number 7, and the commandment against abortion is number 6.

The "thou shalt not kill" commandment, number 6, does mean "thou shalt not murder", if you look at the original Hebrew word in which it was written. This is simple stuff, Bella.

Being a monotheist does NOT involve putting any limits on God, since that would be impossible for us to do. The only God who can be proven to exist is the God of the Bible, which is why I'm sticking with Him. I DON'T KNOW IT ALL, by a very very long shot...but I do know some things to be absolutely true.

The other gods are lies, myths, and fairy tales. All of them. Yes, there may be some truth in the different religions - for instance, Islam teaches that there is only one God as well - but the religions themselves are false. If all the religions were true, then all the gods of the monotheistic religions would be blatant liars. There is only one God.

Let me make something clear, Bella - you are wiser than I am in many different areas, just by virtue of the age difference. I don't pretend to even come close to knowing an inkling of all there is to know. HOWEVER, I do know some things to be absolutely true, such as the existence of Jehovah God. How is that being arrogant?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Whoa whoa whoa, seadog - I'm glad to see that we agree on the KKK, but as for redistribution of wealth I think we have a little bit of equivocation going on here. Redistribution of wealth (at least the modern definition) means that the government takes wealth from part of the population (whether it be through taxes or any other means) and then gives it to another part (through welfare, tax rebates, etc). Letting those who earn money keep what they earn is NOT redistribution of wealth. For instance, if a wealthy businessman earns 5 million dollars one year, and would ordinarily pay 2 million dollars in taxes, and the government passes a law letting him keep an extra million and only pay 1 million in taxes, that is not ROW. That is merely letting him keep what he earns.

I partially agree with your ending line: unregulated capitalism CAN BE an evil, like anything else it can be abused, but it is NOT NECESSARILY an evil.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

dukkillr-
I just read your last post to Bella. Do not say she is wiser in different areas as she clearly hasn't shown it. She does not know facts like you do, and she doesn't know the definitions of political terms. She also gets things turned around about what liberals and conservatives stand for (e.g. who is for gun rights, who isn't.) My god, she thinks conservatives want fascism and corporations are evil!!! They employ millions of people.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Wyatt - I'm not saying that she's wiser than me politically or socially, but I'm also not blind enough to say that I'm on the same maturity level as a 50 year old. Despite how much I disagree with a person, if they've been on this earth for over twice as long as I have, the odds are that they are wiser in at least some areas due to experience and other things like that. Thanks for the commendation, though!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Wyatt - I'm not saying that she's wiser than me politically or socially, but I'm also not blind enough to say that I'm on the same maturity level as a 50 year old. Despite how much I disagree with a person, if they've been on this earth for over twice as long as I have, the odds are that they are wiser in at least some areas due to experience and other things like that. Thanks for the commendation, though!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

dukkillr

The "Fair Tax Plan"?

Know what it is?

Basically eeryone keeps 100% of there ernings and when they buy something is when tax is levied. Also all the US Curenc setting in off shore accounts would come back to the US Banks.

Curent tax laws works like this, lets say you and the Wife go to the Outback Steak House who busted your butts and saved to go there. Some person (IRS)wants that 16oz Prime Rib for themselves will walkup and say, I want a portion of your steak. You say no, they go get a bunch of people with guns and will shoot you if you don't!

Since the age of currency, Government has setfourth Tax Colectors not to gather Taxes, but to control the "PEOPLE"!

It's also interesting to know how rich those on Capital Hill have accepted a job that pays a fraction of what they make each year.

WHY IS THAT!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella - I see what you are saying, but the problem with your theory is that you put too much trust in the Federal Government. When you give the Federal Government the responsibility of deciding "how much does a man need?", then the party in charge is going to favor its constituents and shortchange its opponents.

There is only one reason we come up with new and better medicines, technology, cars, etc: rich people wanting to get richer. If they had no desire to gain more wealth (or if they were prevented from gaining more wealth), then they would have absolutely no reason to invest in any new projects. People don't deserve all they can "get", but they do deserve all they can earn. It is this mindset that has made the United States as great as it is. If Sam came up with a brilliant new idea, and he started a company based upon that idea, and started earning 300 million dollars a year, he should be allowed to keep that money. He earned it. What's happening now is that the FedGov is coming to Sam and saying "Look, Sam, I know you earned that money, but poor Bill over here has been working hard his entire life in a fast food restaurant and he doesn't have anything close to the amount of money that you have. So, we are going to tax you 30% of your earnings and redistribute that to Bill and anyone else who we think needs it..."

That is what's going on with your progressive income taxes. It's legalized robbery, plain and simple.

You say "it used to be that all business licenses were only issued if they worked for the public good". (When exactly did this happen, btw?) In a utopian society that might work, but not in this world of politics and underhanded dealings. If you give the FedGov the responsibility of determining which business "work for the public good", then eventually they are going to deny licenses to all their opponents and grant licenses to all their constituents. It's human nature. We CANNOT give the government that amount of control over our economy and expect it to improve.

As a closing thought, where have these socialistic economic practices ever worked before? Nowhere. England, France, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Canada...all these countries have implemented these ideas, and they all have a much higher poverty rate than the capitalistic United States. Your ideas might have worked in a utopia, but they definitely do not work in the corrupt world that we live in.

Without the incentive of keeping what you earn, all initiative to explore and be an entreprenuer would be lost, and that would destroy our economy even more. We must make decisions based upon cold logic, not emotions.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella- I see you went off your medication again.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella

As usual you don't have a clue what you're talking about!

Typical Liberal BS!

O” THE RICH SO EVIL PEOPLE!

I tell you what Bella, go work for someone who is broke!

Let's see, two minus three equals plus 5!

Ya’ that’s it!

Why work said one individual, the Government will take care of me!

If I remember right back was it 78 or 79, a storm front with tornados touched down in the Shreveport Louisiana area. One of the local TV news stations showed this Black Guy first in line for food and handouts was asked how bad the storm hit his house. My house is fine he responded I’m just here for the food and my share of the handouts!

GO FIGURE!

WHY WORK!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella one more thing, I’m in the health care field and nobody has gone without their medications. It’s very simple, any Physician contacts a Pharmaceutical Manufacturer and if the medication is just, that individual receives meds for free! For those who went without medication never made it known to their Doctor they needed it and let’s give credit to the charity organizations paying for their hospital needs.

So stop with the victim mentality and get your facts straight!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella

For someone suppose to know it all and doesn't know ROK from BFE and truly believes all of this Liberal BS of propping up and encouraging people to think they are not responsible for there own actions, have you ever thought to stop and look at the States who are now flat broke like California and New York? It's a microcosm of what America will look like under Liberal Democratic control!

황소 두엄의 충분히 당신!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Awesome point Clay! Yes, look at California - they've gone bankrupt because of socialistic economics! How obvious is that?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella - Bush was in charge, not Dubya. Or is this another one of your pet conspiracy theories?

Um, yeah, we do like to be represented. Which is why America is a Republic guaranteed by the Constitution rather than a Democracy. The Founding Fathers DESPISED democracies, they knew that if everyone had an equal vote that it would turn into mob rule.

Sure, the Obama admin "stated its commitment to transparency and open government". And they lied, like most Democrats. Show me where they have been transparent!

More later, I've gotta drive my mom to the doctor's...

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella- You accuse the conservatives of have their hands in the till but over history, the democrats always spend much, much more than conservatives do. .How do you explain the 2 plus trillion dollars the democrats have spent in one year.I SAY AGAIN- Conservatives believe in LESS government, LESS taxes. Liberals believe in BIG government, MORE taxes.Taxes always go up when dems are in control. This is how the liberals pay for all their socialistic programs (including the socialistic health care reform.) By the way, that health care reform is unconstitutional. It is taking a freedom of americans away. The right to choose for themselves if they want health insurance. NOW the government is going to require everyone to have it. They should be thrown out off office for not upholding their oath of office when they try to pass this unconstitutional bill.
The oath of office is to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution of the United States of America. They clearly don't do that.
You listen to much liberal news. It is fully ingrained into your very being.
I've run out of time.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

By the way dukkillr and Clay- I agree with everything you guys are saying, well done. Please feel free to respond to Bellas' hate-mongering spewing as I won't be able to. I read the posting but can't take time to post much anymore. (I do have to live with her and have to keep her happy you know.)

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I'm back! Bella, in response to the rest of your post, I'm picking up after Dubya, at the part where you said "did you notice how none of your conservative heroes ever served". What? Oh sure, like you have a lot of liberal war heroes: Bill Clinton was a DRAFT-DODGER who fled to Canada, and John Kerry served for six months in Vietnam, "accidentally" hurt his own self to get out, and then lied about his service to get a medal. Both those men had disgraceful military records, I don't care who's side they were on. There are many, many more conservative war heroes than liberals; especially since the majority of liberals oppose America fighting to defend herself anyway.

I'm not a Calvinist so I'm not responding to that point.

Commandment number 6 deals with murder, and the Bible states several times that anyone who kills a pregnant woman (no matter how far along) has committed two murders, so according to the Bible abortion is murder since it kills unborn children. Commandment number 7 deals with adultery, so if you sleep with someone you are not married to then you have broken the 7th commandment. Furthermore, the Bible goes on to say that homosexuals "shall not enter the kingdom of heaven", so there goes that. Abortion breaks the 6th, and homosexuality breaks the 7th.

Without offering any rational alternatives? Bella, the libs were saying that weeks ago, and the Republicans made a point of offering OVER 6 DIFFERENT PLANS to Congress, all of which were ignored by the partisan, free-speech killing Democrats.

Yes, Americans pay for their healthcare...and they get 10 times better treatment than any other country. No country that offers free healthcare has quality healthcare, and the Republicans know this, which is why they oppose the "public option". Democrats are power-hungry, partisan, short-sighted, and frankly don't care at all about the American people, which is why they are currently trying to get our healthcare system down to the level of France's. Try doing some independent thinking and stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I find it interesting how powerful the Liberals are until they run out of someone else’s money!

John Kerry fraged himself with a Grenade Launcher playing around shooting too close!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Can someone come up with the name or names of people who died for the lack of health care!

There are those I call frequent fliers for ambulance rides from pain in the knee and upset stomach to they needed their prescription refilled to wanting someone to cook them breakfast, NO JOKE!! And this ties up units for real emergencies.

So the bottom line Bella, when it comes to health care, you may fool those who are outside of the health care business but not those who do it professionally!

Damn Bella stop being an armchair specialist and get out off your recliner watching CNN to get your talking points. Go out into the world and get your own life, a real life!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Who-hoo Clay can cut and paste the same old tripe over again. It was untrue, unfunny and offensive the first time. What a waste of bandwidth. You guys have done nothing to convince me or anybody else who might read that you are anything but narrow minded fundamentalist extremists. And do you know who is committing terrorist attacks all over the world? Terrorist extremists. I see little difference between onew bunch of extremists and another. My own positions are quite moderate. Some of my opinions are liberal (My right to Choose) and some are conservative (my belief in the 2nd amendment). That makes me a moderate, but there is nothing you extremists hate more than a moderate, because we don't fit the black or white binary catagorization you like to impose on everything. Moderation is anything but extreme, so I understand why I can provoke such umbrage from right wing lunatics like clay, ducky, belch and bagger. But it is extremists who are messing yup the world, stirring up dissent, broadcasting lies again and again on the principle that if you yell it loud enough it becomes true. But it doesn't. I don't want extremist christians imposing their nonsense on me any more than I want extremist muslims doing it. Between the two I see very little difference.
And Clay, I don't have to list any names, I have no need to "prove" anything to you, any information I give is liable to be twisted anyway, so that you can delude yourself that you have made some clever point or another.
But I'll tell you one thing, peace loving moderates don't go about with explosives packed in their "Y" front BVDs. Moderates don't blow up black churches and moderates don't usually get involved in armed standoffs either. Moderates don't release Sarin gas into subways and moderates don't bomb gay bars. You can't blame anything on moderates, really, we moderates are the great put apon, constantly getting it from both sides because we aren't righty enough for the right wing whackos and we aren't lefty enough for the left wing whackos. We kinda sit in the middle and look with disgust at both sides.You extremist blowhards put more importance on party and idiology than in getting any thing done, or the Rethugs wouldn't be blocking important social legislation that is desperately needed. No ideology is everything for you fanatics, and no matter how often you post, I know there really aren't many of you fanatics out there (I can count you know) and it is always the same bunch of yokels with their Rehashed Rushisms. Fantactics like you corporate tools are part of the problem and the attempts to blatently fight any attempt at compromise or problem solving by the right mark them as part of the problem too. Reactionary foulmouthed denialists, close minded chauvanists, the wheel turns dudes, the wheel turns. What comes around goes around and whoops that boomerang is headed right for you. Sure keep denying climate change. Keep supporting offensive shills. See what it gets you.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Who-hoo Clay can cut and paste the same old tripe over again. It was untrue, unfunny and offensive the first time. What a waste of bandwidth. You guys have done nothing to convince me or anybody else who might read that you are anything but narrow minded fundamentalist extremists. And do you know who is committing terrorist attacks all over the world? Terrorist extremists. I see little difference between onew bunch of extremists and another. My own positions are quite moderate. Some of my opinions are liberal (My right to Choose) and some are conservative (my belief in the 2nd amendment). That makes me a moderate, but there is nothing you extremists hate more than a moderate, because we don't fit the black or white binary catagorization you like to impose on everything. Moderation is anything but extreme, so I understand why I can provoke such umbrage from right wing lunatics like clay, ducky, belch and bagger. But it is extremists who are messing yup the world, stirring up dissent, broadcasting lies again and again on the principle that if you yell it loud enough it becomes true. But it doesn't. I don't want extremist christians imposing their nonsense on me any more than I want extremist muslims doing it. Between the two I see very little difference.
And Clay, I don't have to list any names, I have no need to "prove" anything to you, any information I give is liable to be twisted anyway, so that you can delude yourself that you have made some clever point or another.
But I'll tell you one thing, peace loving moderates don't go about with explosives packed in their "Y" front BVDs. Moderates don't blow up black churches and moderates don't usually get involved in armed standoffs either. Moderates don't release Sarin gas into subways and moderates don't bomb gay bars. You can't blame anything on moderates, really, we moderates are the great put apon, constantly getting it from both sides because we aren't righty enough for the right wing whackos and we aren't lefty enough for the left wing whackos. We kinda sit in the middle and look with disgust at both sides.You extremist blowhards put more importance on party and idiology than in getting any thing done, or the Rethugs wouldn't be blocking important social legislation that is desperately needed. No ideology is everything for you fanatics, and no matter how often you post, I know there really aren't many of you fanatics out there (I can count you know) and it is always the same bunch of yokels with their Rehashed Rushisms. Fantactics like you corporate tools are part of the problem and the attempts to blatently fight any attempt at compromise or problem solving by the right mark them as part of the problem too. Reactionary foulmouthed denialists, close minded chauvanists, the wheel turns dudes, the wheel turns. What comes around goes around and whoops that boomerang is headed right for you. Sure keep denying climate change. Keep supporting offensive shills. See what it gets you.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Wow, Bella, way to go with the victimized attitude! Very impressed! Nicely done, very nice. Congrats for you, you apparently have exactly one conservative view (that of the 2nd amendment). That makes no one a moderate; the KKK also believes in the 2nd amendment, and I doubt anyone would label them as "moderates".

La did da...whining, more whining, and yet more whining...fantactics! You said fantactics! I love being present whenever new words are invented! AWESOME!! hahahaha =P All joking aside though, anyone who believes in partial birth abortion, global rule, gulags, Robin Hood economics, socialized healthcare, and global warming crises, and thinks that the US government is "transparent", is most definitely not a moderate. Don't kid yourself: the moderates would reject you in a heartbeat.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella, thank you for proving my case and point of you being section 8!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Very well put dukkillr!!!!
The following is an email I got from someone. Check it out, pass it along. Bella- YOU ARE IN DENIAL and you've got everything mixed up in that what you call "well educated" head of yours. It's not not showing at all.

HOW IS ALL THIS "HOPE" AND "CHANGE" WORKING
> OUT FOR YOU!
>
> YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN HERE!
>
> WELL, HERE IT COMES!!!!
> Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 9:02 PM
>
> HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009
> Please send this to everybody on your list... this is Obama gun
> control by secrecy .
>
> Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into
> the
> House .
> This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009 .
> We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.
> Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under
> the
> radar.
> To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45
> or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of
> 2009.
> You will get all the information.
>
> Basically this "little" piece of legislation would make it
> illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
>
> It is registered
> You are fingerprinted
> You supply a current Driver's License
> You supply your Social Security #
> You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation
> at any time of their choosing
> Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale
> must be reported and costs $25
> Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and
> are
> subject up to a year in jail.
>
> There is a child provision
> clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access
> provision. Guns must be locked and inaccessible to any
> child20under 18.
>
> The Government would have the right to come and inspect that you are
> storing your gun
> safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up
> to 5 yrs. in prison.
> If you think this is a joke - go to the website and take your pick of
> many options to read this..
>
> http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text
> It is long and lengthy. But, more and more people are becoming aware of
> this. Pass
> the word along .
>
> FAILURE TO DO SO AT YOUR PERIL!
>
> Any hunters in your family - pass this along.
>
> This is just a "termite" approach to complete
> confiscation of guns and disarming
> of our society to the point we have no defense - chip away a
> little here and there until the goal is accomplished before
> anyone realizes it.
>
> YOU MAY NOT OWN OR EVEN LIKE GUNS, but if you LOVE FREEDOM, YOU
> better get involved NOW!!!
>
> TOMORROW YOU MAY NOT HAVE AN OPTION.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I just read Bellas' long spew of a post above and she finally admittted-
"Any information I give is liable to be twisted anyway."

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from JDibala wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I've been reading these posts on and off for 5 days and I've finally caught up. I just wanted to say that I have enjoyed reading this thread, and I've learned that I need to take more initiative in researching politicians and what they stand for inorder for me to form my own opinions. I look forward to reading more.

Thanks,
JD

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from seadog wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

So many thoughts & so little time. I usually complain that work interferes with my time in the woods--now it interferes with my time in this silly playground. Can't say it all so I'll just say what I "feel" like saying. Then you extremists can look at me through your far-right-wing-colored glasses and call this crusty old seadog a "touchy-feely liberal" for not being in lock-step with the Republicans. LMAO
dukkillr, you used "redistribution of wealth" as a term of art that describes a socialist ideal. That's fine--the term of art means what you say it means, but the words redistribution and wealth have meanings of their own. Socialists and communists are not the only ones that redistribute wealth and taxation is not the only means of redistribution. All of the Republican administrations since Reagan, along with the Clinton administration, and Congress (through both Repub & Dem control) have collaborated to shift American law and policy so that wealth has been consolidated into the hands of a small percentage of Americans. The middle class is shrinking, the extremely wealthy are getting richer, and some of you are cheering it on. Soviet style communism was a failed attempt to redistribute wealth from the elite wealthy class to the worker. The last 30 years of American policy has been a sucessful (thus far) attempt to redistribute wealth from the worker (the middle class) to the wealthy elite. The Republicans have led the charge, and the Democrats (fractured as usual) have helped the cause at times, paid lip service against it at times, but never done anyting effective to slow it down--it has been a joint effort. This isn't liberal or conservative--it's irresponsible. If I'm a "liberal" (insert your own venimous accent) for opposing the elimination of the middle class, then f-you, I'm a liberal.
Clay, your posts are getting more & more like "Name that Tune." I can name that Coop-cut&past-ism in 3 words! Sometimes I don't even need the words--I can spot the one about how conservatives invented beer from the geometric shape of the paragraphs. It looks like you've got quite a colletion & some of them are interesting but you could use some new material. I hadn't seen the cute little hurricane relief story about how black people want free food before. Are you trying to revive the ku klux klan discussion? I've got my own hurricane relief story--first hand--not from television. After Hurricane Wilma, FEMA paid for generators. I got one but FEMA didn't pay for mine--I qualified but I didn't feel right taking money for something I could afford. The generator program was welfare for the wealthy. People who genuinly needed help getting generators couldn't get them because you had to pay up front and apply for reimbursement. The only recipients were people who could afford to buy them. And to make it worse, the power co. mostly turned the power back on in the rich neighborhoods first, so many of the recipients never even needed the generators. That was the Bush administration at it's best.
Wyatt, I notice that you still seem to be having trouble comprehending Bella's comments. I've read quite a few of them and I didn't have any trouble understanding what she was saying. She sometimes throws in an obscure reference, sort of like listening to Steely Dan lyrics, but other than that it's all plain English. Is English your first language? It seems to me that you have trouble understanding anything that you don't agree with completely. It also appears that you require the comfort of the flock, because you rarely express an opinion that hasn't been pre-approved by the majority.
Go ahead & have at me if you like--I'll respond if I "feel" like it.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

seadog

Thank you for proving my case and point (SIN)!

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Seadog - you are not redistributing wealth if you only ALLOW THE PEOPLE WHO EARNED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE TO KEEP IT. To redistribute wealth you have to 1. take it away, and 2. give it away. If the GOP had passed laws that taxed the wealthy and then gave them their money back in the form of special rebates or incentives, then that might qualify as redistribution (if you go by the sketchy definition and not the real-worl definition.) However, simply letting them keep more of their own money is NOT redistribution, since the government isn't distributing anything. They earned it, let them keep it.

By the way, my family is very solidly middle-class, so your arguments don't really make sense (if we are middle-class, why would we hate it?) The elite wealthy class is made up almost entirely of liberals anyway. Why then, you ask, would the republicans be in favor of letting these liberals keep more of their money? Because those of us who are conservatives operate off of principle, not emotions.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella and Seadog answer this question.

Your over 50 and an Disabled Vet, you automatically have two strikes against you in the job market. Age and Veteran discrimination is alive and well. So instead of lowering yourself you choose to refinance your house and start your own business. Also you ask if anyone wants to loan you money to get it off the ground at 50% plus interest, but nobody wants any part of it. Now 5 years later after literally almost loosing it all, your house, your vehicles, all of it, your business finally takes off. Why should I subject myself to parasitic taxes! Money taken and goes into a black hole to never see the light of day formally called pork barrel spending! Wife and I have busted our ass and why should I allow someone else who never donated even a dime say they are going to take my hard earned income and to use it for there on greed!

Answer that one!

O'by the way, those who didn't want to participate in starting this business are now knocking on my door are now wanting in!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

seadog

Suppose you built a house without financing and totally by yourself.

Now the Government wants 30% to 55% of its value in taxes

What say you!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

seadog, bella to

One more question

Your running an Emergency Relief Center feeding people. You only have enough food, shelter and supplies for only those affected. But those affected next door neighbors shows up who isn't affected by the crisis with there hand out, what would you do?

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

seadog- Please show me where I said I can't comprehend Bella's spewing. I'd like too see the reference. Of course only if you feel like it you pompous *ss.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella

There you go again, can not answer a question, so you shifted the subject, ignored the facts and you went into name calling and dive right into one of your diatribes

As for John Kerry, he is nothing without his wife Teresa Heinz bank account!

I tell you what Bella, if your house burns down and according to your beliefs, your own your own right! hope your insurance is paid up! O' that's right, you blew your money or too lazy to hold a job so it's now my responsibility for you own stupidity? NOT!

It's OK to be stupid now and then, but Bella and seadog you really abuse the privilege!

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from SAND BAGGER wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Reality is not optional Bella!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

With all the Veterans I deal daily, I have not found to this date a single Vet who likes this Administration!

Bella your in a state of denial and may I point out this is not "The Nile River" in Africa

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Um, actually yes, Massachusetts has a ton of liberal extremists. A ton. Fortunately for America, the US Military as a whole is very conservative.

I don't deny that Bush had a hand to play in the financial meltdown. Who can forget fall 2008, when the Democrats were in power, and he let himself get pressured into starting the bailout trend (which completely killed Wall Street.) TARP was ridiculous, something Bush should have never let the Dems convince him into pushing. The conservatives were furious.

BTW, it was the liberals who coined the phrase "too big to fail". TARP was the idiotic result of a Bush/liberals cooperative deal.

Congrats, you have a few respected scientists. I have over 30,000. Awhile back the Global Warming lobby had a petition going, trying to convince US scientists to sign onto as a statement that global warming was a threat. Approximately 5000 did, and over 30,000 refused. I have the scientists on my side; you have the politicians on yours.

You observed "vanishing glaciers" with your own senses? Hmm, why do I doubt that one? Let me tell you something: 2009 has been a record cold winter. Did you somehow miss the huge snowstorm that stranded all those motorists in the NC/VA/MD area? For the first time in years, we got over 8 inches of snow at one time down here in the Piedmont (doesn't sound like much, but down South it is record.) Your "sober individuals" were forecasting an ICE AGE in the 1970s! Why can't they make up their minds? Did you somehow miss the fact that the University of East Anglia DESTROYED all of their gathered information about climate change, leaving only their deductions? Did you somehow miss the fact that there are global warming scientists being prosecuted by YOUR LIBERAL GOVERNMENT for doctoring up their info? Did you somehow miss the fact that the Earth is 1 degree cooler than it was in the 1860s, before cars were even invented? Did you somehow miss the fact that cows produce much much more carbon dioxide than all the cars in America combined? Why do you just believe something because you had some politicians, religious leaders, and scientists tell you that it was true? What happened to independent thinking? Back in Galileo's time, you had politicians, religious leaders, and scientists telling everyone that the world was flat! You are a follower, not an independent thinker.

Mudman? I don't follow your train of thought, but my "denial" is called logic, something very few liberals have heard about.

hahahahaha I'm laughing my head off. We tried to throw the election? Apparently you missed the Black Panthers who were prosecuted for voter intimidation with nightsticks and billy clubs? The Republicans don't try to throw the elections, that's the Democrats' specialty. (Oh, and for the record, if someone is an illegal alien or a felon, I don't mind one bit throwing them off the voter roles.)

The only way Democrats can win is by creating a crisis. They don't care about America, they don't care about helping people, all they want is power.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella-
You living in the liberal capital of the country says alot about how you think.The Dems are notorious for spending money like a drunken sailor . Remember- liberals always raise taxes so they have more to play with.The Global warming thing is a concocted falsehood. (I used to believe some of it until I researched it, and read some interesting books on it.) The earth itself produces much more carbon dioxide than we do burning fossil fuels. Besides, CO2 is a natural element, (Not a pollutant like the EPA says.) all vegetation uses it and in return produces oxygen. Nature produces over 200 billion ton of carbon dioxide per year and we only produce around 7 billion ton per year. The oceans emit CO2 every second of every minute, so do the rain forests and for that matter, all forested areas. Even where you hunt contributes CO2. Forest and grass fires contribute. Each one of the 6 billion people breathing on this planet contributes CO2. So does every living creature. We are now in a time of greatly increased volcano activity, the greatest in 500 years. One thing that is a problem is the deforestation of the rain forests. The rain forests make up only 7% of the land mass of this planet but produces 1/3 of our oxygen, which means it consumes 1/3 of the CO2 in the atmosphere. As far as your disappearing glaciers, those pics were taken in the summer. The ice is just fine. It the different ocean currents like El Nino and La Nina that effect our weather, not CO2. Besides, with more CO2, the crops grow bigger, and that has been proven. The scientists that are agreeing with the falsehood get HUGE grants for doing just that. Keeps them in the money. Bella, you haven't sounded like a moderate in any of your posts, you are an extreme left winger.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Great post dukkillr- I was busy typing mine and read yours afterwards.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella-
You are in contempt constantly, acting as if it's a short hop from being a liberal to being an unpatriotic american. Your venomous spewing to constant name calling (e.g. Dubya, Faux news, .......) to categorizing everyone into your evil labels and acting like conservatives are an enemy of this country shows how far left you really are.You evoke the left extremists so much, I'm sure it comes natural for you considering where you live. Your blue is showing in every one of your posts, matter of fact YOU'RE SO BLUE you need to come up for air.
The only reason why you adopted the independent "free" thinker label for yourself is because seadog called you that. Before, you never said you were a "free thinker, but since he named you one, that what we hear from you, it's your new label for yourself. It doesn't fit what you protray.
Besides, if seadog was a true independent thinker, he would have seen your liberalism shining brightly. His labeling you as an independent thinker really shows his leftist views.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Well I just made it official. Bella NEVER DID use the terms "independent" or "free" thinker until seadog called her one. That is sooo typical of liberals.
By the way Bella- I know why you keep hitting the wrong button all the time- to get extra 50 points for duplicate posts. You not only did it many times twice, but many times in triplicate too. Well done.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Dr. Hansen was protesting mountain top removal, one of the most wasteful and distructive (and unneccesary) mining techniques known. Mountain top removal is done by coal companies because it takes less manpower, therefore less people to pay and provide health insurance. But Mountaintop removal pollutes and destroys aquifers sickening thousands of West Virginia residents while providing fewer jobs than the old way. If you gave a poop about people, children and yes, unborn fetusses, you would be on the protest line with DR. Hansen yourself. Toxins leach through the mining waste used as fill and make peoples tap water undrinkable.
I tend to disagree with cap and trade, because it turns pollution into a tradable commodity. It doesn't reduce carbon, it only moves into other peoples back yards.
Only "cons" would advocate policies that equate to crapping in ones own nest. Go hurry up and rapture, you waste space.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Oh the very notion that an outdoorsperson who hunts and fishes would for an instant approve of the wholesale destruction of hunting habitat and burying of fishing streams is contradictory.
I do not use coal, we buy our power (that which we don't generate with solar panels) from green sources and pay more to do so. We need more sun and wind power, we don't need coal. Coal is a dirty destructive, carcinogenic energy source monopolized by a dying industry. It must be phased out, and we can start by ending the obscene practice of mountaintop removal.
Dr Hansen walks his talk, I admire that in a man. He puts himself in the line of fire for what he believes in. Ducky, you ain't worthy to polish his shoes either. Go quit hanging out with the Jugend and talk with some people your own age who are into normal things (other than hanging out with religious fanatics). Go do some snowboarding, go hang out at the mall or something, get a life!)

I know, (because you always use this 2nd grade tactic) that you will now tell me to get a life, and thank you, I have a very nice life. It was your wasted youth I was discussing, My wasted youth is 2o years behind me. It Just Ain't Normal for teenage males to act like you do, getting all fixated on reactionary blowhards and demented evangelicalism. Loosen up kid or you'll wind up on an aircraft somewhere with your undershorts all full of PMEX or Cemtex ready to blow your ass off for some inane idiology. Ducky when I compare you to Mustapha whatever his name is (with the explosive panties), I know you are going to say that You are a Christian and That's different because you think you have the only true whatever. But Mustapha believes the exact same thing (but with slightly different labels) and he believes it more strongly that whatever malarkey you believe, because he is willing to literally blow his butt off for the God he believes in and you are not. Practically speaking, you both worship the same monotheistic demiurge anyway, except Mustapha is willing to die for whatever he believes in (however wrong it may be) and you are a wannabe.
I however am not interested in encouraging this notion that the Gods actually would want mortals to blow themselves up over ideology. I don't think the Gods approve of anybody blowing anybody up. As I have written, I have handled far far more than my share of munitions and I am convinced all that dangerous hardware is rather more than ungodly. You can't convince me that either Yeshua or Muhammed would approve of such. Fundamentalist extremists seem to thing God wants vthem to blow stuff up, but I am not convinced that any religious extremist has a pipeline to God. I find it more likely that all of you dissent mongering, controlling, manipulative, judgemental religious extremists are so caught up with the noise in your own heads that you wouldn't hear "the still small voice within" even if God turned the volume up to 11. I'd rather hang out with Unitarian Universalists, they are more loving and spiritual than any of you fundie whacko's.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I have absolutely no problem with anyone protesting the coal industry, they have a Constitutional right to do so. What I do have issue with is when they do it ILLEGALLY. Dr. Hansen's protest reminds me of how PETA does similar illegal protests, such as spraying women who wear furs with red paint, or taking a razor blade into a fur store and slashing all the coats, or throwing acid at pro-hunting speakers. You have a right to protest, but you do not have the right to protest in such a way that breaks state laws and/or harms people. Dr. Hansen is no better than the PETA fanatics, and ten times worse than Rush Limbaugh.

I don't advocate cap-and-trade either, especially since it is a very destructive policy. However, most global warming advocates ARE in favor of cap-and-trade, and I was just showing how Hansen went beyond even them in extremism.

Fossil fuels may be bad, and I have no objection to technology eventually phasing them out. But doing Hansen's idea - that of immediately stopping their use and destroying the coal mines - is rash, dangerous, and harmful to the US economy. At least Rush Limbaugh never told people to break state laws just to make a point.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I've been saving this one,just to see what conspires. Everyone worries about Global Warming?

What about that Super Volcano in Yellow Stone Park!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Oh yes, the supervolcano under Yellowstone park, that Really could cook off any day and wax our entire civilization like nothing. Ironicly, if it happens it would likely completely reverse Global warming by pumping so much ash into the atmosphere that sunlight is blocked and we have another year (or two) without a summer like we did back in 1812 (I think that was the year). It would be devastation across much of North America when the massive lava chamber under the park blows. In Nebraska there are layers of volcanic ash 30 feet deep from the last time it blew. That much ash fries electrical transformers and takes out power grids. Internal combustion engines and jet engines also fail when they ingest volcanic ash. When it goes it will be bad. I say when and not if, because it will, soon enough. But I'd rather the planetary Divinity not punish us so. It seems such a brutal way of restoring the balance.
Yellowstone I can talk about, an issue absolutely beyond politics. When it goes it will make St. Helens look like a highway flare.
Up here in the hills of the Acadien Orogeny (geology talk) I like to think My little farm might be too far east to lay under significant ashfall (yes, I am the Pollyanna Pessimist and I actualy think about such things, but I grew up a mormon so you might understand...).
So Clay What About that super volcano. Do you think you are far enough away to avoid the pyroclastic flow? I wouldn't want anybody to get caught in that sort of disaster, I visited Yellowstone once with my family, years ago when I was a kid and (as a kid) I was terrified most of the time, course I was knee high at the time and when you are on those board walks and the very stinking fumeroles are bubbling beneath your feet, well a little kid could feel insecure! So I have never had any great desire to revisit Yellowstone, I just hope it can keep the lid on for another 50 years or so...

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella
I don't blame you brewing your own and besides,I delivered a many loads to and from those Beer Manufacturers and the dead critters I've found cleaning the trailers would make me brew my very own Beer...LOL!!!

I'm actually a Tea and fountain Coca-Cola person, don't care much about alcohol and besides when I was in Florida and the fireworks was over with on the 4th of July in Destin Florida I went Scuba Diving and you can't do it if your three snits in the wind so just call me the dictated driver!

But, once in a Blue Moon I might have a sip or two of Beer for medicinal purposes to relax the body just short of the buzz!

Besides, it’s more entertaining to watch those who get drunk and acting stupid so you can ask what they did the previous night, LOL!

By the way, what do you know about and thoughts of that Super Volcano out in Yellow Stone the Media keep ignoring?

Gotta, I'll tell'ya about Kadena later, gotta run you will love it!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Kadena? you don't mean in Okinowa do you? What's the problem with the Airbase in Okinowa? When I was in the 8th TAC the Wolfpack had a resupply and rearmament relationship with Kadena AFB. We had a restricted area on base that we had to pretend to guard during exercises (they'd never issue any clips to go with the rifles they'd issue to "guard" the restricted area in the bomb dump. Always resented that, sin to hand a girl an empty gun). At any rate, I served in a time when it wasn't popular, being just after 'Nam and all. Korea definately changed me, though I was only there a year. I had my first experience in a real Dojo (Dojang- same difference) when I studied Hap-Ki-Do under a Korean teacher. I wasn't in the Dojang long enough to make rank, but that experience put me in touch with the bedrock of my life. These days I study Iaido, (I'm testing this month) the art of drawing and cutting with the sword. before that it was Aikido and before that Kendo and before that Goju Do (Okinowan). If I have an ounce of discipline, it is due to my Senseis and the Budo. Life is training, training is life! Of course I tend to take the warrior thing much further than my fellow shugyosa (students of swordsmanship) in that I do archery, pistols, rifles (and then there is my personal cannons).
I'm unusual that way. but Toemoe Goezen was a famous female warrior of Nippon who wielded two swords at a time like airplane propellers, not that I plan to ever do so myself. But continued training allows graceful aging. Besides discipline is contagious.
But today my training was on Xcountry Skis, an exercise I endorse and reccommend, especially when one considers the Biathlon! It was like Bella of the Tundra out skiing on the frozen lake, but one gets ones fdaily cardio workout where one can!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

I bet it's interesting to watch you slice and dice vegetables, LOL!

As for Kadena, I was there when Korean Flight 007 was shot down. Worked in job control and talk about breaking records in getting the F-15's and RF-4's to there forward locations scared the snit out of he Russians!

As for Cobra Ball RC-135 they thought they were shooting down, in June 86 I became one of the Maintenance Scheduler at Eielson AFB AK for that same Aircraft. Talk about guards around it, you just didn't walk up to it that's for sure!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I suggest that anyone that cares about their second amendment go to this website, save it to your favorites and research the site.If you thought the UN has good intentions, It will change what you believe about the UN.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Forgot to post it.
http://www.un.org/disarmament/HomePage/PressReleases/PR.shtml

I haven't been able to be on line to much, I know that we are all screwed no matter what happens, or who is elected unless everyone wises up to the master plan of the elites.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

When 007 went down I was at a convention in Baltimore, Hanging out with a bunch of Texans (drinkin' Lone Star) in a double suite. Party got real quiet real fast...
As far as Kadena goes, I understand the Okinawans would rather see the back of the US military, but the Japanese and Koreans don't want us going.
Oh well the only ground I have for understanding the cultures of Korea, Okinawa and Japan from martial arts. I did Hapkido in Korea and Okinawan Goju Do in the 80's then Kendo, Aikido and Iaido from the 90's to the present. Hapkido was the most efficently brutal (to ones enemy), Goju was the most brutal (for the student- Iron body technique was too harsh for me!) and the Japanese Budo arts are the most beautiful (and picayune). I am not interested in being brutal or in being brutalized so I stick with Budo.
Each art is a reflection of the culture that evolved it. China, Mongolia and Japan played king o the hill so often in the land of Chosen the Koreans naturally became resentful of their frequently tresspassing neighbors. But there was always different parties in play, the Koreans even won a few rounds (inventing ironclad ships to fight the Japanese and rocket arrow launchers (like Katyushas) to run off the Mongols. The Okinawans pretty much only had to deal with Japanese, so one can see what happens when an oppressed population is disarmed. The people learn to use what they have as weapons. The Tonfa is a mill wheel handle, Nunchucks are agricultural flails and Sai are pitchforks. Okinawa was famous for rice, and without flails, forks or handles, you can't make the rice.
I found Koreans easiest to get along with, and I like Korean foods better than Japanese or Chinese (even kimchi!). I hope to revisit Korea and Japan someday, if the world is willing...

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

While in Okinawa, had the best job one could have show up to work at 8am, get of at 12noon, go to work part time at the Kadina Marina in the Scuba Rental (free rental gear too!), get off about 6pm, make a dive or two there at the sea wall or just down the road in front of the Naval Hospital then go back into work still wearing my dive suit at time, work 30 minutes at the most and back to the barracks 300 yards away. I know people would die to have a job like that!

As for the Okinawans when they got to know me, you can say they adopted me which a few did. When I was in there store, any Military individual showing disrespect regardless of rank I got in there face, even today I have no toleration for it even here in my home town at the local Panda or any other place when some redneck would pop off.

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from Summit Republican wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

People just don't get it. It comes down to two main things, money and looking good. If Rush looks good to the soccer idiots then they might listen to his show more often. If they listen to his show more often then he gets more advertisers on board, therefore his wallet gets fatter. What is so hard to figure out about that? He can claim all he wants about being against Obama's spending spree but when it comes down to it

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

American GI's have a rep for uncouth behavior in many places. Of course Kids are kids and young men with minimal supervision a long way from home will occasionally get outa control. One of my jobs was touring the squadron barracks every morning with a clipboard to tabulate the damage and vandalism done by drunken airmen. But we had 5 bars ON BASE and two liquor stores, aside from the Okku Silvertown honkeytonk complex exactly 3 kliks from the Kunsan AFB gate (otherwise known as "ATown"). I'm not saying I didn't engage in my own share of militarily sanctioned inebriation, but a body occasionally had cause to sctatch ones head at the drunken antics one might encounter.
I liked many of the Koreans I met, but I found I had a common language...watercolor painting. I brought a bicycle with me (I know, coals to Newcastle) and I pedaled all over the countryside, painting pictures when I was off duty. Although the scars of war were still very visible on the land, Chosen is a very beautiful country (or it was in 1978!) I spend Xmas with a Korean Family and it was a very memorable experience. I found Koreans to be a lot like New Englanders, Hard headed, practical people, crusty on the outside but kind and warm once you know 'em. I still have much of the art I did there, I never sold those paintings. So yes I'd like to go back, but I know Korea has changed a lot since I was there.
Oh I see Rush was noted on Huffpo as "supporting the Hawaiian State health care system". Thought he was agin such things as state supported health care, but perhaps this is just more behaviors intended to confuse the dittoheads.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Summit - By your logic, if a talk show host appealed to the moderates then he would have the largest following...which has been proven to be an untrue theory, btw. Sure, he's partly in it for money, just like every other talk show host and news network out there. No mystery here. What was your point?

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

The Huffpo? As is the Huffington Post, Bella? One of the most liberal "news" agencies out there, started by an extremist who married a rich gay guy for his money? So not impressed. Here's what Rush said: "there is nothing wrong with the American healthcare system. I received no special treatment."

And the Huffington Post transformed that into "Limbaugh is supporting socialist healthcare!" They completely missed the context, which was this: Many liberals accuse the American healthcare system of pandering to the rich and famous. Several took the opportunity of accusing Rush of getting special attention during his hospital stay at the expense of normal patients, just because he is a celebrity.

At which point Rush said that there wasn't anything wrong with America's healthcare system in that regard, and he didn't get any special treatment. And the Huffpo wrote a long article trying to make him look like a hypocrite in favor of "socialist healthcare", which only succeeded in making them look like the 5th grade level publication that they are. Wow. Again, so not impressed.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Sorry, meant to say "as in the Huffington Post", not "as is". Typo, my bad.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Kunsan AB?

One of our forward operation Bases.

As for Huffington and Kerry, it's there mega rich spouse who catapulted them into the positions there in.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Yep, Kunsan AFB, Only decent sand beach for cliks and cliks both up and down the coast, but we couldn't enjoy it, because it was supposedly mined. it was the 8th TAC then, likely something else now. Lots of beautiful countryside around there, yet you'd climb a hill then notice that the top is perfectly flat- a helipad- then you might notice the old weapons positions, or trenches. and you might go down that hill and on the next green forested ridge you notice the line of connected tunnels boring deep into the hills, where the enemy sited artillery, positioned to pull the guns in under the hill to avoid Air strikes.
The Koreans were still flying Canadaire F86 Sabers when I was there, with AIM-9 missiles mounted on the wings nearly as long as the aircraft. They flew those old airframes like madmen, something to see. Of course my ears still ring from the sound of F4 Phantom engines on afterburner, and it was 30 years ago...

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from Summit Republican wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

It only comes down to two things; money and looking good.
Rush needs to look good to the soccer mommies to get them to listened to his show so advertisers will keep purchasing spots.
People this guy is nothing more than a leach that could care less about the basic human right of self preservation, and he even admits on his show he only allows people on that make him look good. Please wise up and quit listening to this has-been.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

You can say the same thing for the main stream media. They control what they put on news casts and slant it to the left. They are biased in every respect.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Summit Rep-
When I said that you say the same thing about the main stream media, it is all about money and looking good. (Dan Rather got rid of Connie Chung because she was getting more of his air time than he liked.)
All of those journalists are millionaires making millions per year. So don't put Rush in a category all by himself.

The liberal bias is so pervasive in the television networks, that is has revitalized the radio, (talk radio). This is why the 'alternative' media audience is growing and the 'mainstream' audience is shrinking.
Did you notice awhile back that Connie Chung is gone from CBS? That was Dan Rathers' doing. Bernie Goldberg to is gone.
John Stossel, I believe is gone from ABC. He was too conservative for their taste.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

SR - apparently you've taken training classes on how to be a parrot. Yes, Rush does need to look good to his supporters...just like every newscaster in existence. Yes, Rush does need to make money...just like every newscaster in existence. Where on earth did "self-preservation" come in here, btw? And, uh, screening calls is talk show protocol. If you ever listened to his show you would know that he lets on a TON of callers who disagree with him; they just screen the calls of people whom they think might get unruly and start cussing him out on live air, etc. It's not an exact science. Anyway, you're going to need to show me a quote to convince me that "he even admits on his show he only allows people on that make him look good". I can say "Well, Nancy Pelosi said that she thinks the Chinese should be completely eliminated", but no one is going to believe me unless I provide them with her quote. Give me Rush's quote here, bud.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

You know, Wyatt, I've picked up something really interesting about liberals and climate crises. Back in the 70s, when they were all screaming about a global Ice Age, and then the temperatures started going back up, here's what they said: well, the earth's temperature is determined in a large part by the water temperate (since the water covers a lot of the earth), so if the water is cold, the earth is cold. Well, since it's so cold, the glaciers have stopped melting into the sea and are staying frozen for more of the year, so the water isn't cooled down as much, so the earth is warmer even though we are about to experience an Ice Age crisis.

So, if the earth cools down, it's ICE AGE! And if the earth heats up, it's ICE AGE! Convenient.

Here's what they're saying now, 40 years later: we are experiencing a global warming crisis. Yes, the earth has cooled down the past few years, but that's because the excess temperatures have melted more of the glaciers, which sent more ice water into the oceans, which cooled down the earth's temperature. So, we are still experiencing global warming, it just doesn't feel that way.

So, if the earth heats up, it's GLOBAL WARMING! And if the earth cools down, it's GLOBAL WARMING! Wow. I wish I knew of ways to apply logic like that to everyday stuff...like convincing my parents to buy me a Ferrari, for instance: if I'm late to work, it's because my car is too slow, so I need a Ferrari! If I get to work early, it's because I was worried that my car was too slow, so I started speeding, so I need a Ferrari to eliminate that worry!

Interesting.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I want to revisit the gun movement issue -
I remember reading a number of posts where the persons were worried about HSUS and Peta being an enemy of our gun rights. I felt compelled to share the following with ALL of you as I have alot of literature on anti-gun movement. Believe me, the HSUS and Peta palls in comparison.

We are in trouble with our second amendment. There is over 320 million citizens of our country but only 70 million are gun owners. Of those non gun owners, some aren't against our rights to own guns but I believe that we are out numbered and add to that, the worldwide movement is against us. We have many anti-gun politicans that are against our rights to own guns, starting with the President, his administration, the vise president, Pelosi, Eric Holder, Schumer, Clinton, (Both of them) and many more.

Please copy the list below as that is why I posted it. Do research on the subject, use www.cuil.com to research as they don't keep track of what anyone does for searches. Buy books on the subject. Another author to look for his books is John Lott. Two of his books are "The Bias against Guns" and "More Guns Less Crime."

The following are excerpts from a book of mine. "The Global War On Your Guns" by Wayne Lapierre

NSO's- non governmental organizations.

Organizations-

IANSA- (International action Network on Small Arms) Billionaire George Soros's protégé, Rebecca Peters, runs the IANSA which coordinates the gun prohibition efforts of groups around the world, including the Brady Campaign in America. IANSA claims at least 500 accomplices worldwide and is fund with countless millions from governments (including ours), international foundations, and billionaires like Soros. In spreading its dangerous doctrine of civil disarmament, IANSA receives the patronage of the same governments that push gun prohibition at the U.N. In effect, IANSA is the cutting-edge public relations arm of the U.N.'s gun prohibition campaign. Rebecca Peters was very forthright in saying that the gun prohibition movement was aimed squarely at Americans: "Americans are people like everyone else."

SAS - (Small Arms Survey) One of the most unique and dangerous antigun organizations in the world. Switzerland

CHD- (Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue) Switzerland. Funded by foundation money and grants from the governments of Australia, Canada, Denmark, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the U.K. and the U.S. The CHD has made opposition to civilian possession of firearms its own particular cause.

Amnesty International

BASIC- (British American Security Information Council): Its main focus is on nuclear issues,but it has been active on the "small arms issue" for ten years.

Bonn International Center for Conversation- A German disarmament thin tank.

GRIP - Brussels: One of the most active international antigun NGOs, it has produced numerous reports on firearms marking, tracing, and brokering.

ISS- (Institute for Security Studies): a South African think tank.

OXFAM- a U.K. based peace and disarmament NGO.

Ploughshares- a major Canadian "peace" NGO, extremely active in the small arms issue from the very start.

Saferworld- major U.K. peace organization.

SIPRI- (Stockholm International Peace research Institute), Sweden: also active in the small arms issue for almost ten years.

The following individuals are leaders of the international gun-ban movement:

Philip Alpers, New Zealand; Former television producer, now a "gun control" researcher.

Ilhan Berkol, Belgium: GRIP

Loretta Bondi, U.S.: John Hopkins University

Cate Buchanan, Switzerland: Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue

Wendy Cukier, Canada: Ryerson University

Owen Greene, U.K.: Bradford University

Adele Kirsten, South Africa: Gun Free South Africa

Edward Laurence, U.S.: Monterey Institute of International Studies.

Lora Lumpe, Norway: Norwegian Initiative on Small Arms Transfers

Sarah meek, South Africa: Institute for Security Studies.

Rebecca Peters, Australia: IANSA

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

WOW dukkillr- For a minute, you had me confused. But then I realized you were doing a top !ss job of imitating Bella, I mean a liberal way of explaining things. I'm with you, it is real hard to keep up with their junk science logic.

Hey, look at my list of antigun movement orgs oin the world. Buy the book I mentioned, it will scare you to death and you might want to sleep with your guns. I'm not kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I forgot to put this in, it is important ,the list of organizations is the same-
OTHER INTERNATIONAL ANTIGUN GROUPS:
WHO AND WHAT GUN OWNERS FACE

While IANSA works with American gun-ban groups, most of the active international antigun NGO's are not from the U.S. and,with the possible exception of Amnesty International, are not well known in this country. THEY MAKE UP A FRIGHTENING NETWORK OF ACTIVISTS:

IANSA- (International action Network on Small Arms) Billionaire George Soros's protégé, Rebecca Peters, runs the IANSA which coordinates the gun prohibition efforts of groups around the world, including the Brady Campaign in America. IANSA claims at least 500 accomplices worldwide and is fund with countless millions from governments (including ours), international foundations, and billionaires like Soros. In spreading its dangerous doctrine of civil disarmament, IANSA receives the patronage of the same governments that push gun prohibition at the U.N. In effect, IANSA is the cutting-edge public relations arm of the U.N.'s gun prohibition campaign. Rebecca Peters was very forthright in saying that the gun prohibition movement was aimed squarely at Americans: "Americans are people like everyone else."

SAS - (Small Arms Survey) One of the most unique and dangerous antigun organizations in the world. Switzerland

CHD- (Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue) Switzerland. Funded by foundation money and grants from the governments of Australia, Canada, Denmark, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the U.K. and the U.S. The CHD has made opposition to civilian possession of firearms its own particular cause.

Amnesty International

BASIC- (British American Security Information Council): Its main focus is on nuclear issues,but it has been active on the "small arms issue" for ten years.

Bonn International Center for Conversation- A German disarmament thin tank.

GRIP - Brussels: One of the most active international antigun NGOs, it has produced numerous reports on firearms marking, tracing, and brokering.

ISS- (Institute for Security Studies): a South African think tank.

OXFAM- a U.K. based peace and disarmament NGO.

Ploughshares- a major Canadian "peace" NGO, extremely active in the small arms issue from the very start.

Saferworld- major U.K. peace organization.

SIPRI- (Stockholm International Peace research Institute), Sweden: also active in the small arms issue for almost ten years.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

It really is junk science. Via their 1970-2010 logic, you can use the exact same temperature stats to prove global cooling or global warming. Nice, huh?

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

9 degrees in Arkansas and -1 in the morning predicted, still awaiting for global warming, we call it SPRING!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Hey Clay-
Right now in Minnesota it is 4 below and that is our high for the day. Wind chill is 25 below.
Tonights low is suppose to be 28 below.
I'm with you about waiting for global warming which is called spring. It's been called that for over 100 years.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Hey dukkillr-
If your parents can't afford a Ferrari for you, you can still get one. Just apply the liberal logic of global warming to your need of a Ferrari to the government and I'm sure that they will give you a grant for one!!!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Well I see Bella doesn't like some of my posts, acouple of dukkillrs too. Who else is active on this blog that disagrees, not many, maybe one other. Odds are it is Bella.
Bella- Whats the matter, don't you like the evidence at hand? There will be more from a senate report soon. Or maybe it's the logic of it all you can't handle.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Just saw an article today on Slate - record cold temperatures this decade. Global warming? Yeah, right. Geeeenerally speaking, when people say "global warming" or "global cooling", they mean that the earth's average temperature is getting hotter or colder...but I guess that's too simplistic for Dr. Hansen types.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Here is a website to look at. Over 200 pages with many, many links. So much info that you never have to cuil search global warming again. Its from the
U.S. Senate committee on ENVIRONMENT & PUBLIC WORKS.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&Content...

Dukkillr and Clay, you will this site. you had better save it, or download the PDF Report for future reading,and research.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Meant to say - you will like this site. I don't know what "you will this site." means.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Global climate change or global warming if you prefer means that as heat is energy, if you put more heat into climate systems you have more energetic systems. If you actually look at the weathermaps you will see that the Jet Stream is radically looping north and south zigzagging across the continent bringing actic air to zones that don't normally recieve it. So you guys feel unaccustomed cold air and think that makes climate change a crock. But the very wildness of the Jet Stream is evidence of enhanced global turbulence in weather systems. The unpredictability was predicted, so to speak. Ever drop an ice cube into boiling water and look at it's infra red signature as temperatures equalize. Ice floats and cold water sinks so the water will roil till temperatures equalize. The record cold spells here and there are a result of a lack of equalibrium in climate systems, just as Katerina was symptomatic of global climate change (but then you guys like to blame liberals for Katerina, as well as everything else not nailed down).
The Gulf Stream is powered by something called the Halide Cycle, a vast salt water temperature engine transferring heat from the Equator to the Arctic. Warm salty water flows north on the surface then cools, sinks and completes the circuit. Unfortunately If the Ice cap on Greenland thaws (which has been) cold fresh glacial melt comes down through the Davis Strait, and meets the Gulf stream and interrupts that Halide Cycle (which powers the Gulf Stream). Yank the plug on the Gulf Stream and a lot of places suddenly get colder. A lot of places people like to live are warmed by the Gulf stream (New England, The Maritimes in Canada, Ireland, Britain, Scandinavia, France), Pull the plug and not only does interrupted heat exchange in the tropics cause those places to get even hotter, but the temperature gradients becoming "steeper" would cause weather to become even wilder. We are certain only of experiencing wild fluctuations in climate and yes agriculture is and will be threatened. Fortunately the agriculture that is most at risk is the very industrial, monocrop oriented style of agriculture that we need to move away from anyway. With diversified planting if one crop does poorly another does well, so the risk is lessened for the farmer. With a monocrop when adverse effects hit the crop, you loose everything you went into hock for in the spring.
But disbelieve if you like, wait and see. Do nothing except ridicule and wait for the water to rise. Like I said, I already changed my way of living, up here on the high ground, I'm being prudent according to my lights. So you do nothing except scoff. Fine with me, wait and see. We can see in a decade who is still in a position to scoff.
By the way I don't need Dr. Hansen to believe in what I see with my own eyes. The way we have lived is not sustainable, we must change, whatever the weather does. Our dependence on toxic fossil fuels has damaged the earth and we have alternatives. While I still drive an IC engine car (my Jeep) I have already converted 90% of my farm equipment to electric and I recognise that my dear old Jeep will likely be the last IC engined vehicle I ever own. I know many people resist change, but as they say, change is the only constant in life. When things change one can resist change, deny change, accept change or take advantage of change. Which approach would you think would give best results in a dynamic system. I have always thought it best to attempt to adapt to changes I see on the horizon. If you see rain clouds, get an umbrella! Cursing the clouds or making fun of them will not keep you dry when the rain comes down. So deny all you like, Scoff all you like, we'll see if it keeps you dry when the rains come. Most Americans have so insulated themselves from the natural world that change will likely come as a complete surprise. But while folks may disagree about the details, everybody has to agree, the times, they are a changin'...

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

You know, one thing that bugs me the global warming crowd is that they insist on calling it "climate change", instead of global warming. Are you guys so afraid of being ridiculed by sensible people if you use that term that you have to rely on a neutral phrase? Of course climate change exists, climates always change! I could be arguing for global cooling and say climate change! Say what you mean, for once.

According to scientific laws, the amount of energy on earth stays constant: you can't just "put more heat into climate systems" without taking energy away from someplace else. Everything works in cycles. The earth heats up and the earth cools down, it never stays on a level plane because it is always transferring energy back and forth. Why freak out? It's just the way nature works.

There is never "equilibrium" in climate systems, Bella, everyone knows that. I fail to see your point on the Gulf Stream: yes, if it went away bad things would happen, but no one is saying that it IS going anyway. Not even the global warming scientists are going that far. The Jet Stream is not "radically looping north", it is merely shifting its position back and forth like it has done for forever. You're starting to remind me about the Y2K people who used the same "scoff if you want to, I adapt to changes on the horizon" line. The calm ones were right back then, and they are right now.

Oh, congrats. Now your entire argument has dwindled down to "I don't need proof, I can see with my own eyes". I'm reminded of the time when you ridiculed me for going up against your "scientists" and "sober doctors", saying that it was my word against the scientific world's word. Now that things have been reversed, I suppose you are saying that you are smarter than the 30,000+ scientists that I have on my side? The physicists who said that Hansen was a lunatic? The scientific journals that blast the people who "exaggerate the climate change crisis"? Who's being arrogant and naive now?

You have no proof at all of global warming. You say "the way we have lived is not sustainable"...how so? Can we have some elaboration here? There is no crisis. Give me hard numbers; prove to me that driving Hummers is going to cook the world. We are in a CYCLE, not a CRISIS. Yes, coal is going to eventually run out sometime in this next millinieum...which is why we are constantly coming up with new technology. No sweat. Our way of life IS sustainable.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Bella- Go to this site I posted above, Its from the
U.S. Senate committee on ENVIRONMENT & PUBLIC WORKS. Read some of it, you'll learn something.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&Content...

Stop drinking the Liberal Kool-aid you free thinker!!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Analogy of the Spew. Short one, no tim for the rest.

Bella- So you guys feel unaccustomed cold air and think that makes climate change a crock.
Wyatt-That unaccustomed cold air is called WINTER.
Bella- But the very wildness of the Jet Stream is evidence of enhanced global turbulence in weather systems.
Wyatt- The Jet Stream has always been wild, it does what it wants to. Nothing has changed with that.
Bella- The unpredictability was predicted, so to speak.
Wyatt- No comment on this statement. It speaks for itself.
Bella- The record cold spells here and there are a result of a lack of equalibrium in climate systems,
Wyatt- No, it's called WINTER.
Bella- just as Katerina was symptomatic of global climate change (but then you guys like to blame liberals for Katerina, as well as everything else not nailed down).
Wyatt- That was called a hurricane, wasn't the first and it won't be the last. Nobody blame liberals for Katarina. The Liberal aren't that powerful.
Bella- With diversified planting if one crop does poorly another does well, so the risk is lessened for the farmer. With a monocrop when adverse effects hit the crop, you loose everything you went into hock for in the spring.
Wyatt- You just explained farm s planning crops, so what.Our farmrs here plant many different kinds of crops every year. If they lose any crops, their "crop insurance" pays them for their loss.

Everthing else you talked about is the constant changing weather patterns.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Yes, Bella, it is Global Climate Change! But it is NOT manmade, and it is NOT a crisis, for crying out loud...
...and it is not global warming.

Seychelles and Bangladesh? Oh wow, I'm sure I can find some area in the world where the water levels are going DOWN too. Big deal, they operate off of the monsoon system anyway.

WHERE THE BLANK DID GENDER COME IN??? Are you that much of a loser, Bella, that you can't hold a rational argument without crying "oh, you're being mean to me!" I never mentioned Christian Dominance or Patriarchy or anything! I thought you had more respect for yourself than this. Stop sobbing like a little girl and get with the program.

Dare I ask who "Gaia" is? And, uh, what does monocropping have to do with global warming?

Anyway, on the topic of gender (since you brought it up), I'm not being chauvinistic or anything (although technically chivalry is chauvinistic, and most women seem to love it), but I think it's telling that there has never been a female in the Navy SEALS. Or in the Delta Force. Or in several other SpecOps goups. Yes, in a lot of things men and women are equal...but not in all. It makes me sick when they loosen up the firefighting qualification rules (such as being able to carry a 150 pound weight so far) just so that women can qualify for political correctness. Men have a physical advantage, period, and I'm not being sexist when I say that. Ask anyone in the medical field.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

SpecOps groups, not SpecOps goups. Typo.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Bella-
So you talked about the jet stream and the as you call it "Halide Cycle" which the proper name is " t
Thermohaline Circulation" which is only part of the large-scale ocean circulation that is in every ocean on our planet.
Bella- these are huge systems that do effect our weather but mankind hasn't done anything to affect these systems. We can't, impossible. They have been trying to find a way to stop a little system called a tornado and can't do that.
The Jet stream and the thermohaline circulation are vast systems that have been here longer than man has been here. You talk about "pulling the plug" on these huge systems, well that isn't possible.
You said-
"Jet Stream is radically looping north and south zigzagging across the continent bringing actic air to zones that don't normally recieve it." Well, that is nothing new. That happens on a regular basis. It has happened many, many times before. How long have you been living on this planet anyway.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Boy oh boy (Or should I say Girl oh girl)can you tell she is a woman or what. All that spewing going on. I hope you don't get any of it on yourself Bella.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Bella,Bella,Bella-
Oh, thank you for telling everyone it was winter. We all appreciate your thoughtfulness.
I couldn't tell it was winter by the below zero temperatures,
all the snow we have and all the snowmobiles zipping by everywhere.
You say -The changing weather patterns is Global! Global climate change.
Well, if that is what you want to call it, fine,
but we have been calling it seasons,- Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter.
The beauty of this planet is that the seasons happen all over the globe.
So your are right, it is Global climate change, every 3 months, it changes.

You don't care about my opinions because you are a liberal.
You don't listen to other views because they are different from yours.
I'm not picking your posts apart, I'm only pointing out the discrepancies, and the outlandish remarks.
Half the time it seems that you are high on something because you don't make sense most of the time.

Patriarchal types?
That is a label YOU put on us just like when you called us extremists and compared us to the terrorist extremists.
No one is running the planet. What drug are you on anyway?
Ohhh wait, is that the one world government you're talking about?
That hasn't happened yet.

NO, I have never seen anywhere in this country where
" hundreds of thousands of acres planted in nothing but soybeans" or any other "one" crop.
I love this, your little history lesson, "Remember the Irish potato famine?"
Oh yes, and so does everyone else, (It happened back in the mid 1800's I think. something about potato blight.) as do the farmers.
That was their main food they grew, and they didn't have the diversity of different crops to plant.
It also caused mass emigrations.
Is that when Massschusetts first family, the very liberal Kennedys' emigrated from Ireland.
Maybe your state has a state holiday celebrating the famine which brought them over here. Just guessing.
I live in the red river valley, which is referred to as the bread basket of the world.
There are hundreds of thousands of acres, just like in other every area that farms.
All farmers are diverse in planting crops.
But it's not just the scenario of one kind of crop not doing well, but that each crop uses different minerals from the soil.
It's called CROP ROTATION. They never plant the same crop in the same field two years in a row for that reason.
You talk as if farmers don't know what they're doing. Maybe in Massachusetts, but nowhere else.
If farmers lose any crops, even one third, they still get reimbursed.
It's called CROP INSURANCE. They never take a loss.
Sometimes they don't make a profit when they lose a crop, but they do get something back.
It's just like car insurance, get into an accident, they reimburse you for the damage.

And what the hell does that have to do with Global warming anyway?
CO2 does not care if there is one crop planted or one hundred different one.
All plants, regardless of it's origin, uses CO2.

When you said-
"You Patriarchal types have done a lousy job running the planet anyway, about time the place got run more fairly.
With Men in charge for the past two millenia the planet has been polluted overcrowded and laid waste.
But Gaia is waking up! I have heard Her voice, She ain't happy!
So call it what you will, the labels don't matter, but batten down yer hatches if you have a lick o' sense."

Do they know you left the hospital?
None of this makes any sense, we are not under a patriarchy rule.
You just accused men (not women) for pollution, overcrowdedness and the planet being layed to waste.
I do believe women cause pollution just as much as men, like when you drive your "IC engine" Jeep.
Men had help with overcrowdedness. We couldn't have done it without women.
(By the way I have no children,so, using your theory, you 're contibuting to overcrowding not me.)
Who Is "Gaia" anyway, one of your many gods I suspect.
What drug are you on?
Good thing Gaia is female, you have someone to chat with about your hatred toward the male gender.Be

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Bella - we were talking about GLOBAL WARMING, not plastic pollution or toxic dumping or anything else. Can't you defend global warming?

As for being a "boys club", a lot of the females I know are conservatives who backed Sarah Palin all the way. It's not a boys club, and your gender never even entered my mind when we were arguing about the economy or anything else. Quit whining.

Oh congrats, you know a few women who can kick butt. There are always exceptions. As a whole, however, men are the physically stronger group. This is not an argument, this is a fact. The Navy SEALS don't want females because females are emotionally and physically incapable of operating in the elite group. It's not just the soldiers, either; the psychiatrists and doctors who work with them refuse to endorse letting females take part because they know that a female would not be able to make it. They have let women take part in the Navy SEAL training exercises before, as a test, and not one of them came close to passing. Women are physically and mentally INCAPABLE of participating in these elite fighting units in the US military.

Firefighters - yes, there are standards...and many stations were forced to lower their standards several years ago because they weren't meeting their politician-set quota of female firefighters. It happened in Maryland, where I used to live. Your average woman can't hold her own physically against your average man, that is a simple fact of life.

As for being better shots, WHATEVER! I've seen women with egos twice the size of their male competitors, btw. Better balance? Sure, nice joke.

As for Rush divorcing his wife, at least he had the decency to divorce her and not just cheat on her like Clinton, Edwards, Spitzer, Letterman, and a host of other liberals have done to their wives.

Chivalry is based upon the differences in men and women, not upon their equality. When I go on a date, I walk on the side of the sidewalk closest to the road...why? When we go to a coffee shop, I hold open the door for my girlfriend...why? Because I am acknowledging that we are different and, as a female, she is the one who should be protected and treasured. If we were totally equal in everything, chivalry would be an oxymoron.

Men and women are not equal, and this country was not based upon equality and diversity. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against women voting or women being in the armed forces, but I am against lowering the standards just so that they can take part and so everything can be "equal". It's sickening, really, putting our soldiers' lives in danger for political correctness.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Oh btw, Bella, I noticed that you said "there ain't no women in SpecOps because women are still banned from combat". What? Banned from combat? Did you seriously mean to say that? We have women fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan EVERY DAY, in case you didn't notice.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Oh btw, Bella, I noticed that you said "there ain't no women in SpecOps because women are still banned from combat". What? Banned from combat? Did you seriously mean to say that? We have women fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan EVERY DAY, in case you didn't notice.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Sorry about the typos above.

Bella-
There is climate change that is threatening anyone. You are drinking too much of the liberal kool-aid. So you were just describing the pollution problem of industry and the consumption problem of many people around the world. So, what is the point here Bella. We all know this stuff. What do you want to do about it. The conifers with brown needles along the roadways is caused from two things. If they are on the south side of road, they aren't getting enough sunlight, the other thing is the salt they put on the road to get rid of the ice. Then the plows come thru and the snow gets sprayed on the trees closest to road. The salt will kill turn the needles brown.
The point is that it has nothing to do with your so called climate change.
You can spew with the best of them, (Liberals, I'm talking about.)

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Sorry again, forgot a word in first sentence.Should be-There is NOT climate change that is threatening anyone.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Bella-
I forgot to ask you what did you mean when you said-
"But the very wildness of the Jet Stream is evidence of enhanced global turbulence in weather systems. The unpredictability was predicted, so to speak."

What did you mean by that?

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Bella-
I hate to make another comment (Pick your posts apart.) about something you said but I'm compelled to. You said "Patriarchal types have done a lousy job running the planet anyway, about time the place got run more fairly."

So by that you mean that if women were in charge, the planet would be in better shape? You really do have a hatred toward men, don't you.
Are you a member of NOW?

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

Hey dukkillr-
I'm going to answer for Bella. She won't do it anyway. When has she ever answered our questions.
She can't defend Global warming as it is a concocted falsehood the liberals like to believe.
But you know this, and I think Bella does too.
She just can't admit the libs are wrong.
Clay hit the nail on the head when he said the liberals SIN.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

No comments, Bella? I thought number 5 was pretty funny...and number 1, and number 7...

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

dukkillr-
I like them all, but my favorites are #9 & #10. #8 has some good humor and truth to it.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 13 weeks ago

I knew that Bella wouldn't answer any of my questions. She NEVER DOES!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

I do believe in what Clay said about Liberals (Bella is definitely in the group.) “S” is for Shift, they Shift the subject to avoid the truth!
“I” is for Ignore the facts!
and
“N” is for Name Call when they are unable to “S”hift the subject and “I”gnore the facts they automatically default into “N”ame calling!
Bella, like all liberals DO NOT ADDRESS QUESTIONS FROM OPPOSING VIEWS. They think that if they don't answer the questions, that the views will go away. But reality is that the quwstions are real and go unopposed. (Until later)

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Okay, well, I guess the debate is over then! Dukkillr out.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 12 weeks ago

Bella- Since you didn't answer my simple question, I assuming that you don't know what you meant when you said-

"But the very wildness of the Jet Stream is evidence of enhanced global turbulence in weather systems. The unpredictability was predicted, so to speak."

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from Nycflyangler wrote 3 years 50 weeks ago

Bring me the skin of Punkin. I need to cut some zonker strips to tie some flies with.

Anyone who delivers this will be gifted a dozen hand tied flies with strips from said cat.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 3 years 42 weeks ago

VAturkeyaddict_ You're absolutely right. He had to go thru to the 6th. page to post his remark.

Hey whitetailhunter1- Please explain what is childish or or immature about debating politics? The government screws with our lifes and we have the right to free speech. After all, this thread started out with a political theme. If you don't like it, why did you read up to the 6th. page?

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from XxradadxX wrote 4 years 18 weeks ago

I agree with above "wvboy". here's where to go to talk politics. It tells you who is telling the truth.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

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from SAND BAGGER wrote 4 years 18 weeks ago

IowaGuy you freeloader!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 18 weeks ago

Subject: Conservatives/Liberals and who’s the true Modern Hunters Wimps?

Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic
hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the
summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter.

The two most important events in all of history were the invention of
beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer.
These were the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:

1. Liberals; and
2. Conservatives

Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the
beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can
were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around
waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the
brewery. That's how villages were formed.

Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at
night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what
is known as the Conservative movement.

Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live
off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly B-B-Q's and doing
the sewing, fetching, and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the Liberal movement.

Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women.
The rest became known as girlie-men.

Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of
cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the concept of
Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that conservatives provided.

Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest,
most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are
symbolized by the jackass.

Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer
white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like
their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French food are standard liberal fare.

Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have
higher testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers,
personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group
therapists are liberals. Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn't fair to make the pitcher also bat.

Conservatives drink domestic beer. They eat red meat and still
provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo
cowboys, Polymer Science PhDs, lumberjacks, construction workers, firemen, medical doctors, Physicists, police officers, corporate executives, athletes, Marines, and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own companies hire other conservatives who want to work for a living.

Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers
and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans
are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals
remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America . They
crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of
trying to get more for nothing.

Here ends today's lesson in world history: It should be noted that a
Liberal may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to the above
before forwarding it. A Conservative will simply laugh and be so
convinced of the absolute truth of this history that it will be
forwarded immediately to other true believers and to more liberals
just to piss them off.

So here’s the proof, if you’re a Liberal then the answer is yes, you’re a Modern Hunting Wimp!

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 18 weeks ago

I hate typing on laptops!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Clay I'm glad you are donating meat to the hungry, that is a liberal and generous act.
FDR was a democrat, he ended prohibition and got us out of the depression. Social Security has allowed millions of retired Americans to have a little to live on after they are past working.
JFK is still revered by most Americans, we can thank him for setting us on the path to the moon (one of the greatest achievements of modern man) even if he almost destroyed the world in the Cuban missile crisis. LBJ made civil rights a federal issue.
You may not like Carter, but he was my Commander in Chief, and I'd still follow him today. He has done so much good work for ordinary folks with Habitat for humanity and the Carter Center he would deserve a Nobel even if he didn't already have one.
There that is some of the good a few democratic leaders have brought us.
Why do you think I am not as hard working and interested in self sufficiency as you? We don't raise the sheep and goats and all the other critters to be a petting zoo, we eat em all! I don't know where you get this need to belittle and mischaricterize others. Liberals are the majority, many liberal's(including Vice president Biden) own handguns, work hard and are perhaps more loyal and more patriotic than than you. After all when the last bunch of neocon crooks was in power we liberals bided our time and regrouped so we could restore majority rule. Democracy worked and President Obama was elected by both the popular and the electoral vote. When I think of how people who dissed Bush were treated and contrast how people like Rush and Beck get treated (despite their sedition) these days it just shows the difference between the two. Bush?Cheney was secretive, petty and cronyistic. They got us into two wars and crashed the economy while sponsoring the enrichment of the corporate class at the expense of the middle. Perhaps Obama/Biden hasn't been as transparent as some might wish, but they are like windows compaired to their predicessors. Bush suspended Habias Corpus (breaking his oath to the constitution), Obama has restored it. Obama's administration hasn't had a Katerina yet, but during that disaster it was Republicans in charge of the mess anbd Republicans who ordered the confiscation of the arms of private citizens in the disaster area. Obama has vowed not to interfere with our sporting traditions while Bush/Cheney handed thousands of acres of public lands over to private interests. They just didn't care when push came to shove. Your cretinous attempt to blame the worlds troubles on "liberals" are as specious as they are offensive.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Oh and show me just how mature you all are by calling me more names, filthier ones please, the last spate of sophomoric abuse was too lame to even consider insulting. You weenies don't even know how to properly cuss somebody out. Soo very laame.
So keep on with the namecalling, it tells me that you really are stupid clueless fools eager to exchange your inheritance for a mess of stinking pottage. You never do answer a question, you just parrot the same old FAUX talking points. Come on show some original thought! Oh but you all are incapable of intelligent independent thought, that is why you all listen to that disgusting toad Limbaugh. As ye sow so shall ye reap.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Dukkller is a prime example of why some people shouldn't homeschool their kids. We homeschooled our daughter but not so she could be taught revisionist history, like the insane notion that FDR prolonged the depression. Hey they put FDR on the Dime for a reason. Somehow dukkller managed to miss absorbing basic human decency. Point one. We do not toreture because we are the good guys, and good guys don't do that. Period. When you start doing evil things like torturing people thgen You become the bad guy. Maybe you think we should be the bad guys...Psychology teaches that if you want something useful out of somebody, you don't break him, you co-opt him.
I am also amazed that you deny the existance of a vast and growing underclass, you must be so sheltered not to have heard about the huge tent cities and the hundreds of thousands of people who are now homeless. The number one reason for mortgage default and foreclosure is medical bankruptcy these days, It could happen to you too.
Of course you likely will claim that all those people who lost their houses to the banks were all to blame for their own predicaments obviously they are all liberals too.
You can blame the problems of the world on "liberalism" but it is only putting blinders on yourself as blame seeking doesn't solve problems. Blaming other people never solves problems, solving problems solves problems. Blaming the innocent merely allows the problems to get bigger and bigger until they swallow you up. It is easy to blame others, especially if one isn't interested in solving problems. But people who forget history (or revise it to make their current favorites look better) are doomed to repeat it.
Are you middle class? Do you deny that the middle class is being squeezed downward? Do you blame all the unfortunate persons who already lost their jobs and homes or do you think someone else is responsible? It isn't gonna be liberals, because liberal families are taking the hit too. but for all you "cons" out there white is black and black is white anyway. You can scapegoat the liberals all you want, but it wouln't solve anything, it will only delay any actual solution.
So when Rush says Global warming is a crock, fine do nothing. Go yell at liberals if it makes you happy. But the mercury will still rise, as will the oceans as the glaciers melt.
So when Rush tells you to donate to HSUS, give him lots of money, PETA will be calling you next (after all Rush loves his kitty!)
And when Rush tells you Obama is going to personally take all your guns away, well you better go dig that bunker and buy up every round of any caliber possible. Use your credit card, that's what Bank Of Amerika wants you to do (you wouln't mind the lien on your property). Jesus is coming and you'll never have to pay the debt! Besides Jesus wants you to have all those guns so you can go kill anybody who looks at you sideways!

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from Kruznnn wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Field and Stream are you a bunch of wacks, why even go to such a subject. In addition, the far left would disarm us all in a heart beat if given a chance

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from Bella wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

ROK = Republic of Korea, where I served with the 8th TAC. I have no idea what you mean when you type BFE. You guys all live in some conservative fantasyland anyway, You misquote people and cut and paste things out of context. You don't engage in fair debate, You write extremely offensive things and get pissy when anybody calls you on them. You are manipulative and controlling and I pity your loved ones, if you have any. You worship an obese faithless shill for a multinational media conglomerate who advocates punishment for every drug addict but himself.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

This same Obese shill advocates for the "sanctity of marriage" while divorcing his dying wife, so he can marry a girl half his age. Typical is his support for both the NRA and HSUS. What an example for the youth! I bet all you con dads want your sons to grow up just as repulsively obese and just as disrespectful of women as Rush. But don't expect any grandchildren out of the deal, Jabba Rush would sterilize almost anything with just a glance. He is soo toxic, I'm almost unsuprised his unfortunate wife got cancer from sleeping with that Disgusting Marshmallow. (Ditto for Cheney and Rove, both swollen porcine larvae of men, with tiny little eyes peering out of puffy turgid flesh.)
But you guys are prisoners of your own tiny minds, and likely all need supervision by compassionate responsible adults.

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from dukkillr wrote 4 years 17 weeks ago

Sorry, Wyatt, I've never heard of either.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

I don't buy this notion that Obama has it in for the second amendment. I think the whole thing is scaremongering from Faux which is a tool of Rupert Murdock, who is Australian. I suspect the Right is inventing this issue because that is always the first thing Right Wing Strongmen do when they take power. They take all the guns. After all that was what happened after Katerina, I know people who were there, and it was "Heck of a job Brownie" in charge, appointed by Dubya. So Neocons have taken peoples guns. So lies are screamed claiming the liberals will take everybodies guns, with Limberger leading the charge! But Obama is kinda busy see, and hasn't had time to martial the forces to confiscate our legal arms yet.
I enjoy my firearms very much, & have a good relationship with local LEO's who were kind enough to issue me a carry permit on my application. I am not worried about my local PD taking my guns away in the slightest. I am a law abiding public servant myself, we both do our jobs for our communities. I have heard of a number of people getting their permits pulled, because of old felonies mostly. Perhaps many of you "cons" are exactly that, felons, with good reason to fear loosing your gun privileges.
I do feel that insane people occasionally acquire firearms and use them to act out their sociopathic fantasies. The carnage that results when sociopathic individuals obtain firepower usually requires SWAT teams to resolve, but there doesn't seem to be any suggestion of a requirement for any sort of psychiatric evaluation before qualifying for a carry permit. A records check for past hospitalization occurs, but an unexamined lunatic can make it through the paper process. How many of you right wing coolaid drinkers out there would pass such an evaluation anyway, let alone how many would put up with it, hmmm. You guys call me nuts but I don't care about your opinion, it just doesn't count.
So why do I keep arguing and posting, it is to give the lie to any and all of you yahoos. Your precious neocons crashed the economy and created a huge deficit when we had a surplus. You trashed decades of carefully crafted international relations and our treaty obligations and international committments were scoffed at. All this wreckage to international relations at a time when the world's peoples really need to start pulling together. You guys have no business complaining about the deficit because your boys created it, largely funneling taxpayer dollars into the pockets of the corporations the war was trumped up to benefit.
I'm not entirely happy with Obama either, as he signed the so-called Tobacco Control Legislation (that was gift to Philip Morris) that made my Djarum Kretek unimportable and turned me into a cigar smoker. I'm not happy about the Health care legislation either, but unlike Dubya, Obama was actually elected fair and square, so I'm willing to go with him still.
But you right wing crazeoids claiming to be the majority is ridiculous, If you guys were into majority rule, you wouldn't see conservative organizations put so much effort into vote suppression. The majority never needs to suppress votes, only the minority needs to do that. I will never forget all the folks who were interviewed after the elections telling how they'd been turned away from the polls for some specious reason or another. The Democrats never have to do anything like that, it would be anti democratic, you know. And don't go off on Acorn, they were acquitted. If Republicans were into democratic rule by the consent of the governed, they would have had no need for "man in the middle" computer schemes to pad the numbers electronicly either. Funny how that conservative computer guru who was Roves data finagler happened to die in a plane crash the very day before he was subpeonaed to testify...
When we "lost" the two elections that gave us the chaos of the Dubya years, we bided our time, and the system worked. We didn't go spreading facetious propaganda or start franticly arming our supporters like you guys seem to be doing. Faux news is even objecting to a "decorate it yourself" Xmas ornament thing in the schools. The pettyness is incredible, just like it was in the days of Dubya, when they outed one of their own intelligence agents as an act of petty political revenge. Dubya always acted like a confused toddler whenever out of range of his handlers, whenever he'd get off the script he couldn't improvise like Reagan. We see the same pettyness and immaturity from yokels like Limburger.
I have to assume that if you admire Limburger, you must want to be like him. So no wonder you approve of someone who abuses drugs and mistreats women, because that obviously is what you want to do. You want to be just like Rush. But don't think the rest of us do.
Do I care whether any of you right wing whackos think I have "credibility", As if any of you have any credibility to confir!
Go have another right wing circle jerk then. You claim to support "freedom" but you wish to constrain the lives of others you see as different. You claim to be about truth, but you reject the scientific method that tests truth for veracity, because sciences findings contradict your orthadoxy. You claim to be about America but your spokesperson is on an Australians payroll. You don't have near enough women posting on this blog to remind you blokes that 51% of all the humans on the world might have a few ideas you don't.
I don't inted or expect to "convince" any of you, right wing lunatics are usually pretty set in their opinions and you haven't convinced me of a thing either, except that some of you are a fine reflection of Rush Limburger. But I will call out the liars, and IU commend F&S for recognising Limburger for the stench producing lump of fetid cheese that he is.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

You have won nothing, I concede nothing, I was never under a requirement to address any of your specious arguments. This is a blog, nothing more. I am not here to be convinced to love your conservative tubs of lard on a foreign payroll. Go be just like Rush, see how admired it makes you. But without that Australian paycheck Rush is another piece of trailer park trash. Go be like him! Be a lying unfaithful obese turd. Go move to Florida and get washed away in the next hurricane. We don't need you or Rush, we don't need propagandists paid by foregners and we don't need Faux either.
I like Jon Stewart, myself. I always say I only tell the truth because it is funnier, Rush ain't funny at all so he Must be a liar!

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from caper51 wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Calling Rush a American Patriot.. sickens me ...I save that comment for someone that served in the armed forces... not opps out because of a pimple on his ass.... and now this peta crap...

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Sea Dog I'd sign onto your crew any day for any port. (you'd likely need a good brewer on board), and thank you Sciacchitano for your kind words (USAF! Yay, me too). I miss things because I am unwilling to spend near as much time keyboarding as Ducky and Belch (Earp). I am amuse to see that Ducky keeps demonstrating how biased his "education" was. I'm certain his good grades would get him into Oral Roberts University (if nowhere else), which is perhaps fortunate for poor dear Ducky as almost any other institution would put him in contact with ideas he would find most disturbing...
While I can sling the mud with the best of 'em, I find attracting insults to be an excellent measure of ones opponents. With just a few gentle nudges the adversary reveals their position, their armaments and their degree of cohesiveness. We used to fly F4s in the Wild Weasel role outa Kunsan ROK. These guys use the tactic of Daring the enemy to shoot at them, so they reveal their positions and our F4 drivers could loose a Shrike missile on 'em (they use the HARM missile these days, I date myself by the hardware I refer to). Actually I'm more like the FAC in the OV-10 Bronco, buzzing you guys in an annoying fashion till the reinforcements show up.
My evidence for my own freethinking is that I don't buy into either the whole liberal agenda or the whole "con" agenda either. If I wasn't an independent thinker I would certainly go whole hog one way or the other, just like you "cons". I read actual books see...and if I weren't an independant thinker, I'd likely still be a motherfriekin' mormon (may their "temples" burn, may they loose their tax status and be dunned for many decades of back taxes...that would pay off the deficit!)
So thank you all, libs and "con'(victs) for helping me solve the whole economic problem that besets the country, all we have to do is retroactively retract the Mormons tax exemption and demand restitution (from the 1870's when Lorenzo Snow was in charge of the cult) and back taxes on all the mormons corporate holdings will save the economy! Mormonism is corporate religion and owns (and profits) from many many entirely nonreligious enterprises, They should have lost it in 1979! (when God changed His mind about black people and finally let them be ordained!). I don't think even Rush likes Mormons! We can have unity at last!
Hey looting the Church worked for Henry the 8th, didn't it? And all you fundies even wound up with my favorite Bible version to read (the KJV) because without the Anglicans, James Stewart would have had no reason to replace the Vulgate! Soo, we have historical precident, You "cons" dislike Harry Reid, I loath Orrin Hatch (and (glen)Becky too), Everybody wins but the Cult! Looting the Mormons will give us health care for all and shiny new guns for everyone!
It will make the ghost of John Browning sad, but as the afterlife likely turned out rather different than expected, he's probably unhappy or reincarnated anyway!
And Caper51, you likely understand just why I rant...Laxatives for all Rush is coming on!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

And I do thank you all, really. Most of the people I interact with I always attempt near perfect courtesy and politeness. It is such a pleasure to actually have a venue where I actually can cut loose on fools. So thank you all, I enjoy it immensely. But don't you ever call me a "soy sucker" again! The other fecal matter is all old hat, heard it before, soo trite, soo very very trite, nothing new or oriuginal at all. But with "soy sucker" you completely miss the mark. To think I would have shoveled goat poop for years, and then consume genetically engineered soy drinks! I'm not even that fond of tofu! You can keep your MochaTofuSoyaLatteFrappachino, I'm just gonna go make a cuppa joe.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Amazing, I knew if I stirred the pot enough we'd find a common ingredient! Both Ducky and I dislike Mormons, hey common ground at last! (and both from experience). I'd usually much rather find things to agree about after we've defined the boundaries. Knowing now as you do that I suffered the whole nine yards of mormon malarkey in my minority, therefore anybody claiming to have a pipeline to the Divine is under suspicion until proven otherwise. I am not irreligious, I just have a higher standard of proof than most. Many religions have a sacred holiday around this time of year and may everyone have a loverly holiday, whatever flavor you prefer

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Oh and Earp, I have a degree (Summa Cum Laude, dude). Happy holidays, Feliz Natividad, Joyeux Noel, cHappy Chaunuka, Salubrious Solstice and Gud Jule

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from rabbitpolice88 wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Yup, Rush has done sooo much to destroy conservation and hunting in general, everyone knows he is a peta freak. NOT, F&S, you really messed up this time. I mean just went off half cocked, anyone who thinks Rush is out to destroy hunting and conservation is a fool or a liberal, they are both the same thing.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

There you go duck. All religions but yours are bogus & you hate the Catholics too. No wonder you defend the KKK. "Onward Christian soldiers" and all that. Never mind all that right wing racism, hatred of jews, catholics, ni**ers, & immigrants--the KKK is a really a "liberal" organization, hell bent on picking flowers and redistributing the wealth. lol Your narrow minded fundamentalist Christian views are showing. (Don't get me wrong--I'm not calling you a racist. I get the impression that you're not). The KKK is not liberal. They want to "equalize the wealth" back to white people--that's one of their recruiting tacticts: "those jews have all the money" and "those ni**ers and immigrants took all the jobs."

Merry Christmas--I gotta go take Mom to Catholic church.

Rabbit--you should stay in the rabbit hole on this one. dukkillr has got you covered. If you keep poppin your head up, you'll just help me prove some of my points. And feliz Navidad to you too.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

There you go duck. All religions but yours are bogus & you hate the Catholics too. No wonder you defend the KKK. "Onward Christian soldiers" and all that. Never mind all that right wing racism, hatred of jews, catholics, ni**ers, & immigrants--the KKK is a really a "liberal" organization, hell bent on picking flowers and redistributing the wealth. lol Your narrow minded fundamentalist Christian views are showing. (Don't get me wrong--I'm not calling you a racist. I get the impression that you're not). The KKK is not liberal. They want to "equalize the wealth" back to white people--that's one of their recruiting tacticts: "those jews have all the money" and "those ni**ers and immigrants took all the jobs."

Merry Christmas--I gotta go take Mom to Catholic church.

Rabbit--you should stay in the rabbit hole on this one. dukkillr has got you covered. If you keep poppin your head up, you'll just help me prove some of my points. And feliz Navidad to you too.

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from seadog wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Duck, I didn't misquote Rush. He calls you ditto heads. You call youself ditto heads. So you insult yourselves--fine with me. It makes no nevermind to me how it started. So it seems you've captured the term--like the hip-hop gangs have captured the "N" word. There's some common ground I didn't see coming. You ditto heads have a lot in common with those saggy-pants, underwear-showing, disrespectful punks that drive by and rattle my windows with their rap music. LMAO

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Soo McVeigh was a "chestnut", merely insane huh? And Terry Nichols? Was that "Folie au Deux"?
I spent years working in the mental health field, I am trained in assessment and I have experience working with schizophrenia, Borderline personality disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, , depression and various other disorders. So I have worked with a whole lot of crazies and insane people rarely have the ability to co-ordinate their activities of others. McVeigh, Nichols and unnamed others created and co-ordinated a detailed and destructive plan. While McVeigh certainly qualifies as a sociopath, that doesn't make him insane and if he were the notion that Nichols would be afflicted with the exact same mental disorder are practically nil. Or you under the impression that McV acted alone? The evidence doesn't support McV as a lone actor, that is why Nichols sits in the slam.
The Notion that the National Socialists are liberals is as absurd as the notion that FDR prolonged the great depression. Agencies like the Civilian Conservation Core and the Works Progress Administration provided work to thousands of American families while building infrastructure we still use today. Most of the Appalachian Trail was built by the CCC, Like today, the banks just weren't lending and so the gummint had to step in to help people. And now the wheel is come full circle. Those who would manipulate our economy for their own benefit got the Roosevelt era banking regulations removed and then they ran the system into the ground again. You ever hear of Hoovervilles? Well the tent cities of the dispossessed are a fine approximation and are likely larger than the 'villes of the '30's, as there are more of us. People claim the dispossessed are invisible, but that is only because they wear blinders and see only what they want to see. Others claim the disposessed are at fault for their own predicament, any one who feels that way should watch their step, because there are quite a few folks who once felt the exact same way who are now freezing in tents.
I also want to revisit the torture discussion. The US military Field Manual forbids torture or the mistreatment of prisoners. If you are the "good guys" then no torture. period. Two wrongs do not make a right and never have. No matter what evil act a captive may have committed there is never a justification for "tuning people up", rubber hoses, electricity to the genitals, sexual abuse, siccking dogs on men in restraints or simulated drowning (waterboarding). When someone resorts to such vile acts, one falls to the level of those we oppose and if we have to fall to their level to defeat them we have lost the war, because we have betrayed our most sacred principles of justice. Perhaps Duckster our most sacred principles of justice and equality weren't instilled into you, but they should have been.
Torture is practiced and advocated by sadists, people who enjoy inflicting pain on others. Sadists are usually manipulative people who will seek to justify their desire to hurt others with numerous ploys. The old saw about the bomb set to go off and only by waterboarding the terrorist can it be found to be disarmed is a specious argument. If the bomb blows responsibility is still on the terrorist, not the person who refused to waterboard him. At any rate, if you are simulating drowning somebody by strapping him to a board, putting a thin cloth over his mouth and nose and pouring water over him to soak the fabric, How is the prisoner supposed to say a word? You let him up, he isn't drowning anymore, he can't talk while you are torturing him anyway, his mouth is full of wet fabric! Often the force of the water pushes the fabric right down into the throat, whereapon the interrogator yanks it out, abrading the soft tissues of the palate, causing great pain and making it difficult to speak as well. That my friends is how you waterboard somebody, anybody who thinks it ain't torture is welcome to try it for fun. Waterboarding is not compatable with interrogation even if it weren't torture.
And what was with the sexual abuse of prisoners, stripping 'em and putting panties on their heads and making 'em do naked human pyramids and sexually demeaning homoerotic stuff. Who came up with that? Liberals I'm certain (according to Clay, Ducky, Belch and Rabbitboy). What pervert ordered prisoners treated that way! I was soo disgusted. The Brainiac who came up with that idea must have wanted the Iraquis to hate us forever! What possible good could have come from sexually abusing prisoners in US military custody? Now the world still likely thinks the US military is chock full of perverts, and how will they treat our men and women in uniform now that we have treated people so very badly. The Field Manual is all about Winning Hearts and Minds, (after you destroy their will to resist). No minds were won and hearts were only hardened, with torture, everyone looses. And if the rethugs are the party of people who approve of torture, then all the more reason to be relieved they are out of power. Torture is evil, if you approve of torturing people, then QED you must approve of evil, and if you approve of evil then you likely are evil. Get thee behind me Satanic fool, may you reap what you sow.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

All you have to do is poke the anthill with a stick. I'm having trouble following your arguments here, so you are an Eastern Othadox?
Is the Metropolitan of Kiev your spiritual leader, or is it the Greek Metropole in Athens? You claim not to support the Petrine claim to primacy, so You ain't Catholic, but if you go back before the Petrine thingie, you are in a very gray area. Back then there were Arianist Christians, Manichean Christians, Gnostic Christians, Copts, The Byzantine Orthadoxy and those guys in Northern Iraq still carrying on who firmly believe that John the Baptist was the Messiah.
I will remind you all that the only person to rightfully be accoladed with the title of Shekinah (Savior) by the Jews was Cyrus the Persian. Read the book, there it is, Cyrus the Persian Redeemer of the Jews, restorer of the Temple Treasures. He set the people free!
Duckler, izzat a Wrangler type Jeep (or a Rubicon or a CJ) or one of those Cherokee or Liberty type fake jeeps. I tend to believe firmly that the only true Jeeps are the ones that actually look like actual Jeeps (you know the beloved 4 wheel drive brick shaped vehicle). Anything without enough ground clearance for you to crawl under it and change the oil without ramps is not a "Jeep". If it Ain't got a rollbar (Suitable for mounting potato cannons with the top down) It is either a very old Jeep or it just ain't a Jeep, even if Jeep made it in the first place. Oh and anybody who would get a classic Jeep with an automatic transmission just doesn't understand. So Duckster, are you a True Jeep believer? Or are you one of one of the wannabes in station wagons or (gasp)Land Rovers or (org-) Toyota Land Cruisers and KIA (killed in Action) Monteros!
Admittedly the Rubicons of today are nothing like the original vision from Bantam Motors as actualized By Willys, My middle aged YJ is but a shadow of the original greatness, but It is a Jeep thing...you may not yet truely understand...

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Clay we share a respect for the Amish and the way they walk their talk and prove their faith with their work. I don't believe as they do but I have great respect for their choice of lifeway. Similarly I admire and respect the Dali Lama and the Tibetan Buddhists , but I am not one. I take this course of reasoning, All faiths are true, many religions are false. Faith itself, imposes nothing as it is naught but the pure light of belief in the Higher power. Everyone has the Right to encounter the Divine on their own terms, often Religion interferes with this by imposing limits and putting distance between human beings and the Divine. But across all faiths, certain principles come across- to encounter the Divine, look within, not without. Even if you go on pilgrimage to find God to Mecca, Jerusalem, Compostela, Stonehenge or the top of Everest, it is still from within that the inspiration comes.
Hence my conviction that all faith is a reflection of the Light that enlightens us all, available to every human who seeks it.
Holy Joe, the "prophet" who founded the Mormons had one good idea, All religions bite so start your own. Just don't make the mistake of assuming that God has limits and don't impose your prejudices on faith. God(desses) are a lot bigger than your tiny mind , whoever you are. You may not like this that or the other thing, That's mostly politics, God(desses) are way beyond your tiny planet bound politics. God(desses) mostly, whatever label they get, mostly just want us, their mortal counterparts to be happy and treat each other well. We are talking real humans here, potential or hypothetical humans. Focus on treating real walking talking humans the way you might prefer to be treated and you are on the Right Path. Unless you like being waterboarded, don't advocate it.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

So Duckliver,who taught you that McVeigh and company weren't conservatives? The same people who taught you the KKK were liberals? Old Uncle Adolph Shickelgruber hated the commies as much as he hated Jews, but according to the geniuses who taught you, he's a Liberal? And you see nothing wrong with the credentials of those who educated you? Look, in my wasted girlhood I remember clearly the rep from the John Birch Society giving seminars on how FDR was a commie after Sunday School, but that doesn't mean I would believe such a thing today. Them Birchers, such paragons of liberality. Part of education, that is the process is actually testing what you are taught by cross referencing it, but you don't get an overview by only reading one side of things. Reality doesn't follow a script, either "con" or "lib". Duckliver you have posted some notions that truely make a well educated middle aged lady gasp, with the egregiousness of your miseducation. Some actually think it funny that you might believe such things as you were taught. I myself am a firm believer in Home schooling, we did this for our only daughter, who was dyslexic, when we knew our local school system wouldn't be able to give her any real assistance in learning. But we did our best to bring her up with an independant frame of mind, which she has in spades! We offered her exposure to different religions and different ways of thinking. But it is plain that whoever homeschooled you took opportunity to impose their own prejudices, rather than let you discover your own.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

And remember Ahknaten loves you!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 16 weeks ago

Oh and Duck, 'cause you were kind enough to ask, My '93 Jeep YJ says "Renegade" but that was just a body kit, it is basicly a Wrangler.
I got it secondhand from a neighbor and I have had to do (and have done) a lot of replacement parts. Exaust, Shocks, brakes, u-joints, transmission, 2 windshields, 2 waterpumps, radiator, headlights and other random bits, but I'll keep on putting it back together till the frame is rusted beyond use. I never have liked gettin all greasy and gettin' dirt in my hair crawling under my old 4 wheeler, but I like bein' helpless and stuck by the road waitin' for some man to rescue my butt even less, so I work on my Jeep. At least it is a Jeep, which means it was designed to be repaired in the field (at least with the originals). Not a lot of vehicles are intended to be repaired by owners these days, I may never get another vehicle, if I can keep the one I like going. I ain't no shrinkin' violet, no delicate flower either. One does what one hasta do.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Clay, your "fair Tax plan" based on sales tax is extremely regressive and puts the burden of financing government on those who can afford it least, rather than those who benefit the most.
Wealthy people can eat no more than poor folk, and one can buy only soo much stuff, so thinking a solely sales based tax system would support Government doesn't add up.
I agree with the notion of prohibiting off shore banking, basing corporate headquarters overseas (for American Companies) should also be prohibited, as that is a favorite money laundering ploy. A massive tax on campaign contributions by corporations, coupled with limits on how much an individual can contribute would also be a good idea. I get real tired of corporate interests buying elections and representation. People should be doing the contributing and voting, not for profit organizations trying to tip the scales in their favor.
I also like the notion that no corporation should pay it's president or CEO more than the POTUS does. How much does a man need? Does anybody deserve all they can get?
Remember the old Cossack story about the man who did a service for the Cossack Chief and was rewarded with all the land he could walk about in a day. The man set out and walked in a tremendous circle, encircling thousands of acres only to die with a heart attack at the feet of the Cossacks. They then awarded him all the land he really needed, six feet by three feet (and six deep). He killed himself with greed.
I recently withdrew all my funds from Bank of America and put 'em in a credit union. I did so out of disgust with the way B of A has meddled in politics and it's part in the recent financial crisis. I figured I just don't want to invest a dime with them anymore, their CEO pays himself so obscenely that I cannot imagine what possible service he could render mankind for that level of compensation. He can't raise folks from the Dead, he can't create anything (tangible), he is just an officious dude in an expensive suit who is very very good at looking out for himself. But I ain't paying that particular bozo any more. The BofACEO is one of very few who benefited handsomely from the financial crisis and may have had a part in causing the disaster, he don't deserve squat! I never picked B of A in the first place, I had another bank (that I liked) that was bought by another bank, that was bought by another bank, that was bought by Bank of America. I never had any say in it but to pull my money, and now I have done that. Credit unions are smaller, safer and are lending money today, as they operate under different rules than banks.
I pay my taxes with a smile and on time, always. Taxes are the rent you pay to live in society. Frankly I think those who benifit the most from living in a free, secure society should be willing to pay for what they get. But wealthy people don't get that way by being generous or paying their bills on time. People get rich these days largely be manipulating other peoples money, not by making things or helping people. But too many people seem to think they can get by making money on promises and sleight of hand financial dealings. The whole credit default swap shell game...any fool knows you only win at 3 card Monte when the dealer wants you to win and only the dealer and his shill stand to make any moolah. Capitalism is about producing things and selling them. Con games are about deludeing people and fleecing them. Our present economy has become about the con games and not about creation. People have been hurt baad by the Madoffs and the Kenny Lays. We waste too much money paying big subsidies to corporations who need the assistance far less than many ordinary Americans who are loosing their jobs and trying to keep roofs over their heads. Greed is not a virtue, it never was and never will be. The greedy got the rules changed so they could work scams on the rest of us with tax dollars at stake. Laissez Faire Capitalism is a bad joke. It used to be that all business licences were only issued if they worked for the public good. We need that simple principle of the public good restored. We are individuals who live in communities, without community we have no culture, no security and no customers either. Andrew Selkirk may have been able to live alone in isolation on Juan De Fuca Island (inspiring Robinson Crusoe) with only goats for company and sustainance but he was totally insane when they found him, having even lost the ability to speak coherently. Humans need each other, and one function of government has always been to keep people from exploiting and abusing each other. Abusers and exploiters often object to regulation that cuts into their ill gotten gains or calls them on their ways of getting their jollies. It is right and good for the strong to succor the weak, and wrong for the strong to terrorize the helpless. It is right and good for those who have in abundance to share with those who suffer from want. It is wrong for the wealthy to use their assets to marginalize and abuse the poor. There will always be poor folk, but we don't need to live in a society where poverty is a agonizing death sentence.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Actually most cutting edge research is done in universities by Grad students squeaking by on stipends. If you ever get into college you'll witness this firsthand. Anything good is scooped by Big Pharma, but that isn't what the motivator is, for the grad student it is the thesis that will earn them the doctorate that will get them the grants and the grad students to work for them. Big pharma has historicly been reluctant to work on new drugs for any population they can't expect to make a profit on. So you wind up with aphrodesiacs (viagra), hair loss remedies, anticholesterol drugs you can't stop taking, expensive toxic toenail fungus remedies and other inane but profitable "drugs". You cannot have the profit motive being the highest ideal of health care! Doctors have to swear a Hyppocratic Oath, but neither Drug Manufacturers nor HMOs make any such committment to ethics or compassion. Also Big Pharma is continually using it's financial power to try to manipulate government and secure future markets. Using graft to secure marketshare is not capitalism. Beyond this Big Pharma has made many efforts to manipulate regulations to prohibit herbs and natural medicines that are sometimes the only remedies available to folks who can't afford or don't want the artificially colored petrochemical products marketed as medication by unfeeling multinationals. A few years ago Big Pharma tried to impose regulations that would have made sale and use of common herbal remedies illegal. They tried to ban chapparal, ephedra and even dandilion in a blatent attack on natural medicine practice on the basis that plant medicines in use for thousands of years were somehow untested or unproven. The real goal of course was elimination of competition, which is also Not capitalism at all.
Actually plant medicines are daily being discovered in wild places all over the world, usually by ethnobotany grad students interviewing elderly aboriginals and collecting samples for analysis in university labs thousands of miles away. It makes a case in point of the neccessity for the preservation of wild places like the Amazon or the Tongass wilderness as well as genetic and cultural diversity all over the planet. But if you think the basic research is being done by Wyeth or Astra pharmaceutical you are sadly misinformed. Hang around academia a bit and you'll have a clue how new ideas are really generated.
As far as trusting the government goes, when the government is transparent, rather than secretive and open rather than coercing, why not trust them? I didn't trust Dubya because his administration was secretive, deceptive and unconcerned with ethics. Obama's administration has had none of these traits. Even when things I don't like have been done openly. Besides Government by, for and of the people. We are supposed to be the government. Do you not trust yourself to govern yourself? Fairness is an American principle but again and again I see republicans attempting to eliminate, emasculate or co-opt the regulatory agencies commissioned to safeguard the public good. The notion that financial deregulation frees the hands of business to create jobs has been soo exposed as self serving deception for the benefit of the financial sector.
As far as the incentive to keep what you earn, does being a hamburger flipping drone at the local scottish clown restaurant supposed to be incentivising?
I'm not objecting to entrepreneurs. A friend of mine works for Dean Kamen, (now he's an entrepreneur). The parasites I object to are those suit wearing parasites (Kamen wears nothing but blue denim) who invent nothing and produce nothing, yet think they deserve millions of dollars a year because they know how to play 3 card Monte with stocks, commodities futures hedge funds and currency manipulations. I am for pay being according to work, not whim.
As far as incompetents, indigents, the incapacitated and the infirm, when you give a stipend to those who can't work so they don't suffer or starve you are maintaining an equitable just society. Remember nearly everybody has an elderly relative who depends on Social Security for their income, would you really countenance eliminating such a program that makes life possible for so many million retired folks who can't work anymore and have nothing else? Before you say they should have saved or gotten a pension, remember how corporate raiders have dismantled industrial America and looted pension plans whenever possible? If your future pension was stolen, how do you think you'd cope? Trust the Government? A far better bet than say, trusting an insurance company or a corporate raider. A lot of folks have no option but to trust the government... Did you trust the Government when Dubya was in charge? Why? And you don't now that Obama is our elected leader? Because you didn't vote for him? He swore the same oath that Dubya did and I think so far he is doing a far better job of keeping it than Dubya and his corrupt cronies did.
You guys are always accusing me of getting things backwards, but I think you "dittoheads" have had incongruities repeated at you so often by shills like Rush that I think your synapses must be disrupted. Just because some loudmouth screams something over and over and over again that doesn't make it true. Between Rush. Beck, Hannity and O'Reilly all I see is repetitive blowhard shills. If Rush is your role model no wonder you have the opinions you do. Waterboarding not Torture! Suuure, why don't you try it and see how pleasant it is.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Oh by the way, recent revelations from the Republican front seem to show that the united front of the Republican party with regard to health care legislation has nothing to do with health care and everything to do with trying to prevent Obama from accomplishing anything that might make the president look good. Petty partizanship coupled with the blatent attempt to block anything that would prevent the Healthcare Extortionists from continuing to fleece the American people. They serve their paymasters well.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

dukkillr

When was it? two months ago Mary and I was at a local restaurant and the waiter could pass as one of Bella kins praising Obama and how he is punishing the rich with taxes. When I received the bill I held up a ten dollar bill and said, since I'm one of those so called rich folks and you want this ten bucks to go towards taxes, then you don't knead it as a tip! I politely put no tip and brought the balance down and signed the bill, smiled and we walked out. About 3 years ago at Subway, one of the Employees was basilica saying the same thing, the rich should pay. When she finished ringing everything out, I asked for the Manager who was standing there listening I said, your absolutely right and I believe your boss should pay for this and I walked out!

A stinker I am, but I'm not going to put up with there BS!

By the way on both, I went back later and both had a serious change of attitude! I gladly paid for my Subway and the waiter got his ten dollar tip! What did the waiter tell me to deserve the tip, "FAIR TAX PLAN" he herd about on the Neil Boortz Radio Show out of Tulsa Oklahoma!

Imagine that!

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Ducky I am amused to see youy admit that Dubya wasn't in charge. Well he took the oath, it was plain he wasn't in charge, But He was Supposed to be!
I see part of the problem here, you republicans are not interested in governing yourselves, you want to be represented and not have to bother with such annoyances as governance. I am into democracy, myself. I am into doing my own governance. But you still have to trust someone, I guess you'd rather trust liars with their fingers in the till to "represent" you than have an administration that actually states its committment to transparency and open government.
Perhaps you really wanted Cheney, Cheney, Rove and Limbaugh are so similar they must be related. Is obese, bald with tiny little piggy eyes poking out from rolls of rancid bacon smelling sweaty flesh your physical ideal.
Oh the rich should pay taxes. The poor have no money!
There was a system where the rich paid no taxes in the past. It was called fudalism. The King owned all the land and gave it out to Nobles as feifs, who managed it and oversaw the serfs (who worked the land and paid the taxes in kind). The nobles job was to provide armed forces to fight the kings wars. But the Divine Right of Kings went with Charlies Head (thank you Cromwell). These days the rich you would make nobles don't usually want anything to do with the military (they could die!) they would much rather have the poor folks both pay taxes and go to war for them. Or did you notice how none of your conservative heros ever served. (well Dubya goofed off in the Texas Air National Guard, not showing up for half his formations, fortunately the VietCong didn't invade Texas). Cheney and others had "other things" to do.
Clay you need to get the Calvinism out of your brain. John Calvin taught that the rich were the "visible elect" with their riches as evidence of their blessed state. Yeshua said however "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." Yeshua said "Blessed are the meek" and "blessed are the poor". Calvinism is people deluding themselves they can buy their way into the afterlife. Clay you seem to be infected with Calvinism and you should get your head out of the 16th century. Go talk to the Amish, if they'll talk to you, their tradition dates from Calvins time. They remember and will set you right on this "blessed are the rich" heresy you seem to have locked into. How many wealthy Amish do you know? (Other than in acreage).
Torturing the poor waitron, was just wrong Clay, But I guess you've never waited tables. But then the most rapacious greedy self centered Americans are the ones you wish to emulate most, so one shouldn't be suprised that you would abuse service personelle because they have the umbrage to voice an opinion. But you guys hate any free speech that disagrees with your fuedal agenda.
By the way a gratuity at a restaurant is 15 to 20%, Nice of you to eventually tip so well, even if you did decide to try to make political points with it.
Ducky obviously you wrote your own Bible, Neither the 6th nor the 7th commandments have anything to do with either homophobia or a women's right to choose. Again whoever taught you wanted to raise you up as a little clone of all their prejudices. The 6th is about murder the 7th is about adultery. Neither Abortion nor Homosexuality is mentioned at all. I can understand how you and others might want to read your petty prejudices into the Bible, but that just ain't what it says! That is kinda like saying the injunction against covetuosness forbids advertising! Go focus on loving your fellow man like Yeshua told you to Christians! That obese fart Limburger is no example of how to love your fellow man! (Tom of Finland MAYBE, but definately not Rush).

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Oh and Clay I was in the ROK for a year, I can say please and thank you in Korean and that's about it. Are you using "cut and paste" to try to give the impression you can read and write in Korean? If so what would the point of that be?
And the thing with the requirement that corporations serve the public good was 19th century, but still a good idea. Of course if you or the Republican party had any notion of the public good- you wouldn't be criticizing and stonewalling any effort to pass decent legislation without offering any rational alternatives. So tell me what this Republican National Health policy might be because your congresspeople ain't said word one about any alternative to the Democratic plan, They are just focussed on stonewalling the Dems without offering a plan at all. Americans pay three times what people in other countries do for health care, largely because misnamed for profit organizations referred to as HMO's have insinuated themselves into the health care process. Republicans have received richly of graft from these so called HMO's and like hogs at the troth they don't want the slop to end. Dubya got some co-operation out of Democrats when he was supposedly in charge, but the Repugs are just constipating government at present. A Pox on them. They should do the job taxpayers pay them for and not lobbists out of "K" street. But no, they are owned by multinational corporations with no allegiance to America or any principles but financial gain. A Pox on them.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

John Kerry is a hero, the accusation that he "shot himself" is libelous. Fanatics (Sure get on my case over a typo). Ducky when you have worn a uniform you can criticise John Kerry. Libelous Swift Boaters, Kerry had the courage to protest a corrupt and unwinnable war so you who have never served insult him. You aren't fit to polish Kerry's shoes boy. Go enlist you shallow fool, and see fire yourself then criticise. Cowards! Fascists! Fanatics! Denialists!

I (figuratively) poop on your collective faces.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Wyatt, the North and South Koreans never siugned a peace treaty with each other. The Korean War NEVER ENDED for people on the peninsula. It "ended" for us (sort of) but they are still staring grimly at each other across the DMZ.
Now I may not have been shot at, but that doesn't mean I didn't handle tons of high explosives (I worked in a bomb dump, It was boring, dull and dangerous). Then there was the rocket motors, thermal generators (one went off once- universal panic!)and other pyrotechnics. I was in the Air Force, the risks are different than for grunts, but that doesn't mean I faced no danger and It doesn't give you grounds to diss my service (just because I respect MY senator).
Clay you keep on coming up with inane scenarios and expecting to "trap" me in some illogical construction or another. The last sentence in your previous post is so badly composed it is hard to figure just what you are trying to say. Strunk and White dude!
Property taxes are levied on the local level where I live. The Feds don't even do that! You get nothing for free, dude. Taxes pay for infrastructure and administration. You think you pay too much? You get no sympathy from me.
Any disabled vet who wants to start a business ought to do some market research first. Mortgaging your house your house to start a business is a real dumb idea anyway, what would you do if it fails! I tend to agree that a lot of pork barrel spending is misappropriated and doesn't address the public good.
A big problem is the practice of congress people (on both sides) of attaching amendments to legislation as riders that are not germain to the issues addressed in the bill. I disagree with this practice and feel that things like proclamations on "national Pickle Day", riders funding unrelated projects back in home districts and subsidies to political contributors should never be tacked into important national legislation. The system works, when it isn't all gummed up with irrelevancy and pettyness. Right now the only reason it is working at all is because the Dems have the majority given them by the Republicans. I say given, because it is revulsion over the greed, arrogance and pettiness we saw over the last 8 years of Dubya that handed the congress and the presidency to Obama and the Democrats. Repugs had their way for 8 years and what was accomplished? 2 wars, still not yet won and done, Millions of acres of public lands (that we might have hunted) given over to mining and energy interests for a song (and some meaty campaign contributions) and the disaster of Katerina. Now the same people who brought us 8 years of shame constipate the congress and attempt to prevent any good being accomplished even now. Fortunately they are seriously outnumbered and things are getting done. I may not agree with everything being done but, most Americans were in agreement something had to be done or Obama wouldn't be in the White House. Things will get done whether you reactionaries like it or not. Fortunately Obama is a practical guy, a pragmatist rather than an ideologue like his opponents.
As I repeat, fanatical ideologues are the problem, not the solution.
At least that lying shill Limbaugh is off the air for a few Days. He probably choked on his own vitreol.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Ducky the notion that 70% of Americans believed the swiftboat smear is just untrue, and I would wonder where you got such a statistic. Most of the Vets I know (and myself) were disgusted by it.
When you compare the military experience of John Kerry and Dubya, it is quickly evident who saw fire and who was just a drunk and a coke head, frequently too soused to even report for duty. If he hadn't been a Bush (with people covering for him) he would have been bounced out dishonorably and we wouldn't have had him around to annoy us.
Cheney didn't serve in any capacity, what a guy to send folks off to war (a guy who wouldn't go himself. Chickenhawk!) Obama may not have any military service record himself, but he didn't start any of the wars on his watch. He just has to deal with them.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Hey, I live in Massachusetts, we keep electing Kerry. What sort of vets do you think live in Massachusetts? Extremists like you?
Trying to blame the financial crisis on Democrats is patently ridiculous, It was on Dubya's watch, he gets the blame for it and for making it worse by orchestrating the first TARP Bailout (the unconditional one). It was the Republican rollback of financial regulations allowing shady dealing coupled gross financial malfeasance that caused the crash, but the folks responsible have mostly feathered their nests nicely out of it. The middle class took the hit hard though.
My reccomendation to anybody sensible is to pull your money out of any bank "too big to fail" and move it to a credit union or a community bank. If you have money left to pull, that is.
As far as blindly believing in such things as Global Warming, when I heard respected scientists (such as Dr.James Hansen) and other respected sober individuals telling me that the data says thus and such, I believe them. When Nobel Prize winners, spiritual leaders and and politicians (that I also respect) I believe them over abrasive loudmouths like Limbaugh or Hannity. Then when I observe with my own senses, unusual weather trends, species out of place and physical things like vanishing glaciers it makes you denialists look really reactionary and ignorant. It's like the prophets are calling out that a time of trial is ahead, but you guys are ready with the rocks to stone the prophets yet again. Because you don't want to accept that which is laid out before you. Hey I understand, a significant number of you likely expect to be raptured any day now anyway, not your problem huh? Fine, If you religious fanatics expect to be raptured, go for it! But it is rude and disingenuous for you to block the activities of those of us who expect to stick around when we try to do something about the poop we might happen to perceive nearing the air impeller. You can go, but trashing whats left of the planet when you leave is definitely Not Okay.
Exactly what sort of denial do you think I possess, Mudman?
You are the one who denys climate change and the fact that the cons couldn't throw the last election (like they did the previous two). I can only imagine how badly the republicans would have lost if they didn't cheat, didn't intimidate people at the polls or didn't get as many folks knocked off the voter roles. They was trying! I'm certain the landslide would have been embarrassing.
But that is the difference between us liberal moderates and you right wing ideologues. When Our boy lost, we bided our time, then we lost again and again we bided our time and trusted that we could with vigilance make the system work. And it did work. Now you cons are in the position of having lost a fair election (or one that couldn't be thrown this time) and what are you guys doing. Everything short of open rebellion. Right wing whackos are buying up every "assault weapon" in sight and attempting to clear the shelves of ammo. One can only speculate as to whatever nastyness you cons are planning.
I expect to see hard times in coming years, but due to wild weather and climate change. This does not mean I want the present political situation overturned. My concern is that in a few years politics is likely to be the least of our problems, because I listen to scientists who give out some pretty dire warnings. I know that climate can tip a lot of dominos, bringing about wide and varied consequences. I am not blind or deaf, and certainly not in denial. Look in a mirror Mudman. Go get fired up and become a pot.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Well on the global warming thing, I moved to high ground and my farm is paid for. You go move to Florida, we'll wait and see what happens.
I can't believe the flap about hacked emails from East Anglia, like one set of hacked (!) emails between academics in a 3rd rate British university is suddenly evidence that Global Warming is a plot! Sure it is...Riight. The deniers are Really scratching for supportive data. I'll continue to believe Dr. Hansen, thank you very much. He's a Doctor, Ducky is a homeschooled teenager, I should believe the teenager and not the Doctor? Gee such logic we have here...
So you deniers run along to Florida now, we'll see.
Oh and it is cold in North America right now because it is Winter! Nobody ever claimed Global warming was going to eliminate winter, what would make anybody think that? Global Warming means that climate systems have more energy in them thus they generate more violent storms. Like I say, believe what you like, but don't stand in the way of people who are motivated to respond to a threat, because you don't see it as a threat. You who are deniers, need do nothing to prove your case. People in general only believe what they want to believe anyway. So fine, go move to some nice cay in the Carribean, where you can see the coral reefs bleaching right in front of you, till that day when some hurricane washes your denying rump away, that is. Wait and see...I always hedge My bets, sustainable living is the goal for my retirement years! I already hold high ground, you are welcome to the low...

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from Clay Cooper wrote 4 years 15 weeks ago

Bella, you claim to know everything yet you refuse to answer the simplest of questions by “S”hifting the conversation claiming to know the facts and yet you “I”gnore the real facts then you dive straight into “N”ame calling, the typical trait of a ignorant person. The more I learn about you, the more you prove beyond shadow of doubt your running entirely on talking points from the far left.

It’s time to stop running around like Chicken Little yelling “The sky is falling” and come off Bella’s Ridge to explore the world for what it really is!

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Summit Rep-
When I said that you say the same thing about the main stream media, it is all about money and looking good. (Dan Rather got rid of Connie Chyng because she was getting more of his air time than he liked.)
All of those journalists are millionaires making millions per year. So don't put Rush in a category all by himself.

The liberal bias is so pervasive in the television networks, that is has revitalized the radio, (talk radio). This is why the 'alternative' media audience is growing and the 'mainstream' audience is shrinking.
Did you notice awhile back that Connie Chung is gone from CBS? That was Dan Rathers' doing. Bernie Goldberg to is gone.
John Stossel, I believe is gone from ABC. He was too conservative for their taste.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Bella- Your global warming must be on vacation. Matter of fact, here where I live, we've been experiencing below normal temps since October of 2008. That's over a year. What a vacation for global warming.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

Look at the huge arctic blast our country is experiencing. 4/5's of the country is effected. Some areas are seeing low temperatures that haven't been seen in those areas in three decades. Citrus and vegetable crops are in danger. I don't have to go further as you all have been aware of this weather. What I'm getting at here is that we always experience this kind of weather. There is no difference than the 1960's 70's.........

I live in the north and every year is the same, record lows are broken every year as the temps fluctuates all the time. We were seeing high temps at -16 below zero, and lows were -28 below zero about 3 weeks ago. All were below normal. Now January is just as cold but this is normal. We have seen temps 30 to 40 degrees higher than normal but doesn't mean a damn thing in regards to global warming.

Last summer was one of the coolest summers in decades. We didn't hear to much about global warming last summer.
One thing that I heard last summer about what is happening with the global warming since we're experiencing one of the coolest summers in quite awhile.

The Democrats replied with something to the effect-

"That's natural in global warming, the temperatures will eventually go back up again."

Well, I for one am so glad they cleared that up!!!

Just wait until spring and summer, if we have record highs, we will no doubt hear the global alarmists crying out that we have to do something.

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from Wyatt Earp wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I wondering what the alarmists are going to say we must do to combat global cooling- Cut down EVERY tree on the planet?
Read the following- It is a link from a U.S. government site.

Report: Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling (Daily Tech – February 26, 2008)

Excerpt: All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously. A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here.
The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to erase nearly all the global warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year time. For all sources, it's the single fastest temperature change every recorded, either up or down. […]
Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on. No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

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from Bella wrote 4 years 14 weeks ago

I believe a few pages back I was telling You it was Winter... Go have some antacid belch.
Changing weather patterns is Global! Global climate change.
And tell the residents of the Seychelles and Bangladesh that the oceans aren't rising! Deny deny deny....I thought I made it clear that I don't care about Belches opinions anyway, now ?Belch is for reasons unknown to psychology is trying to pick my posts apart, perhaps in some vain egotistical effort to make me look bad. Gee Belch, you must have too much time on your hands!
(look, now he will try to tell me I should have too much time on my hands and I should get to my housework or something)
I see a major issue here is that of gender, as a gun totin' huntin' fishin' female I tend to swim upstream more often as not anyway, but the notion that I, with a different sort of biological imperitive, different motivators and different education should hold the same views as men is just silly. I see no reason why men should control the agenda when women are 51% of the population (except soon, China and India where they abort girl babies in preference for boys). Your inane assertion of Christian Dominance is not actually about Christianity, but about Patriarchy, which is why so many things fundies go off on are related to sex. The Raping Sex wants to keep it's hegemony. Well I'm for democracy, which says people are equal and males do not dominate women except if the women let them. I didn't spend years in the dojo to live in fear of men. I spent years in the dojo so that NO man gets my subservience (except lawful police officers, but they come in both genders).
You Patriarchal types have done a lousy job running the planet anyway, about time the place got run more fairly. With Men in charge for the past two millenia the planet has been polluted overcrowded and laid waste. But Gaia is waking up! I have heard Her voice, She ain't happy! So call it what you will, the labels don't matter, but batten down yer hatches if you have a lick o' sense. If you don't wanna, well it it is like that joke about the guy sittin' on the roof of his house after a flood, and a guy in a canoe comes by and offers to rescue him and he says no, Jesus was coming to save him so he was gonna wait. Water gets deeper after a while and another boat comes by and the boatman offers to take the man on the roof aboard, but he says "no, Jesus will save me", and there he sits. Water keeps risin' and then the man is pushed to his very roof peak to stay dry as the flood swirls about his drowned house. A helicopter swoops in then and drops a ladder, the crew chief yells "grab it! we'll haul you off" but the man on the roof says "Jesus will save me" and he don't grab. Then the flood surge swept the house off'n it's foundations, the house, unpinned collapsed in upon itself, the man fell into the swirling waterborne wreckage, where unable to swim, he drowned in short order. Approaching the Pearly Gates he asks St. Peter why Jesus didn't save him, and Peter replys "why, we sent you two b