Dave, I have shot some very accurate M88s although dont know if I would ever want one. I also had the pleasure of shooting a 6.5 284 and found it outstanding, but answer me this a freind of mine an old timer to wildcatting took a 300WBY and necked it down to 6.5 and swears by it for sheep hunts do you have any experiance with this cartridge?

I'm definitely a sponge to all talks about calibers like this one. I'm set when it comes to hunting calibers that I "need". But my next gun purchase will be one that I plan on turning into a tack driver over the 1000 yard line. I want a "fun" one for prairie dogs and targets. I'm pretty set on using one of savage's new accustock/accutrigger combos for the base but need to figure out a sensible caliber that I can easily get reloadables.

I once had a 6.5/.284 built on a short action M-700. It was a great shooter, mild recoil, deadly even at long range, but difficult to find good bullets at that time. I later realized that a rifle of that caliber built on a long action would permit the use of bullets of much higher BC. Regardless when it was all over and done the chronograph blatantly demonstrated to me that for all my trouble (pre-Norma supplied brass days) I really had no more, and maybe less, than a .270 Winchester in my hands.
A neighbor who is an outfitter has a custom 6.5/.284 that has made over 70 long range kills for his hunters on bighorn sheep. Additionally the same rifle has dropped lots of elk and deer. He witnesses more animals killed in Wyoming, Montana, Alaska, and sometimes Africa in one year than the average hunter views in a lifetime. For critters up to elk he sees no reason for more than a 6.5 or a 7 mm Rem Mag for really long shots if moose are included. He and his hunters have stories and videos which make this very difficult to argue against. Could they do the same thing with a .270 Win. instead of the 6.5? Yep. The 6.5/.284 fills a niche with the long range target shooters rather nicely but probably will never be a popular hunting round.

To Idduckhntr: I think the cartridge you're referring to is the 6.5/.300 Weatherby-Wright magnum, which is a full length .300 Weatherby case necked down to 6.5. It goes back to the early 1960s, and was created for 1,000-yard target shooting. Its numerous disadvantages outweighed its high velocity and comparative lack of recoil, and it vanished, except for your sheep-hunter friend. The cartridge will certainly kill a sheep way out there, but I cant think of a nuttier hunting rifle to lug up a mountain.

To 007: Virtues of the 6.5/284: very mild recoil, extremely good accuracy in any kind of decent rifle, enough velocity to make long shots easy, and enough bullet weight to handle any game that can't eat you. American shooters have been slow to come around to the 6.5mm bullet diameter (It took me nearly 40 years to pick up a 6.5x55 Swede.), and ammo makers have been discouraged by the spectacular failure of the .264 Winchester when it was introduced in 1958. It was not a very good cartridge, and Jack O'Connor snorted and farted (possibly simultaneously, which I would have paid to see) and pronounced it inferior to the .270. Bye-bye .264. I think that we will see the 6.5/284 catch on. Savage and Nosler are building rifles for it, and there are at least four companies loading excellent ammo in that designation.

Sorry, but I have had it with all these new cartridges and the most outlandish wildcats. I can't see anything a 6.5/284 will do that a .270 WCF or .280 Rem. will not, except give you plenty of problems in finding brass, and be a nuisance to sell if you ever decide to part with it.

One reason I will not own a 284 I can say it in two words.

Parentless case!

Thanks, Dave.

Bernie: A friend here in Wyoming passed away two years ago who had a .375/.338 custom built years ago. He owned a couple hundred guns and the widow only had problems selling one of them. Of course it was the .375/.338 on a pre'64 M-70 action. Your reply makes me wonder if the rifle of which you speak is the same gun. I can't remember who built it for Ed and don't recollect seeing him ever shoot it. You point is well taken regarding trying to shed yourself of oddball chamberings. The rare exception is for collectors who swoon over say a mint pre'64 Model 70 in .300 Savage or such (nothing wrong with the cartridge, just not a common combination from Winchester). I once remember seeing three M-88's in .284 covered in dust on a gun rack in a store. I believe the owner would have taken whatever was offered for all three. Too bad because the rebated .284 is a teriffic cartridge, Winchester just saw to it that the first impression was bad much like Remington and the .280. Poor marketing to the masses I suppose.

To Some of You: There seems to be the impression that the 6.5/284 is a wildcat, or so hopelessly obscure that it might as well be one. Fie on you! Norma, Nosler, Black Hills, Cor-Bon, and HSM load ammunition. Nosler, Norma, and Hornady make brass. Everyone and his brother makes bullets. All you have to do is pick up the phone and call Midway, which is what I did, and you will be up to your asses in 6.5/284 ammo and components.

The only thing I had trouble finding were dies, because this is a very popular cartridge among the cognoscenti, and I solved that problem by calling Redding and groveling. You can do the same. There's nothing wrong with groveling to Redding; they make terrific dies.

Petzal: Generally a considerable number of folks consider anything that can't be purchased at Walmart to be a "wildcat". Some of us are just gun nuttier than others, the latter generally being blissfully content to use their '06 on everything and be happy. The rest of us think we need a separate cartridge for each species hunted or at the minimum a unique bullet and load. I keep trying to convince myself to fall in with the sensible group but hell no I keep deciding that some different round be warranted. Like I said previously the .284 and its decendents are certainly excellent choices for many reasons but no better than other cartridges for an equal number. Also its not much fun paying shipping on any kind of ammo or reloading components these days. Back when Potterfield was kind enough to ship from Midway at his expense it made some degree of sense. One aspect of reloading for me has always been to reduce the cost of shooting to be reasonably affordable. I also agree that Redding dies are very good plus the staff there is always willing to help if you have a question (like last year when I needed a shell holder for the .470 NE, try finding that at your local gun store if you live in small town America). I think they must be shooters.

Pardon my ignorance. I was laboring under the misconception that ANYTHING except a .30-'06 was a wildcat!

Comparing the 6.5/284 to the 260 Rem with the on site IMR and Hodgen reloading data, I just don't see retooling and buying cases to setup for the 6.5/284. Only 100fps which separates the two, not worth it, unless you just got to have a 6.5/284 for nostalgia. I'll just stick to my 6.5x55 Swedish Carbine, THANK YOU!

My dad inherited that exact gun from his grandpa and he said I could use it for hunting and all I have to do is find some ammo for it but so far I haven't found anyplace that sells that kind of ammo. Do you know any place that sells ammo for it?

Let us not forget the 25-284. The quarter bore wildcat. It will give you 25-06 velocity with less powder and can be built on a short action. I built one this winter and I am now preping brass for it. As soon as the weather breaks I will be working up a antelope load. Then practice on woodchucks until I save up the money for the hunt.

I can get Nosler Trophy 260 Rem 125gr PT (Per 20)
Cash Price (Open Account / ACH) $34.77
All Others $35.82
MSRP $67.95
You Save $33.18 (48.8%)
Mfg No. 60018

6.5-284 Ammo?

Due to the current customer demand for our products, not every item will be available for immediate shipment. You will be notified by email by the next business day of your order status.

Good luck, CHUCK!

For you 6.5-284 shooters, you may have to buy direct from Nosler itself!

Go to nosler.com

Can you say $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!

Parentless cartridges?

Severely negative barometric pressure of enormous value!

Interesting history lesson Dave; Have you a custom gun in the making of this caliber?

Two things overdue - Ishawooa contributing and a blog on this cartridge. I'm anticipating part deux and wouldn't mind part III either.

It's funny - I'm about as uninterested in long range shooting as anybody, but I just have to have a rifle chambered in 6.5-.284 for some reason.

"Savage and Nosler are building rifles for it, and there are at least four companies loading excellent ammo in that designation"

Never got a chance to mention that I was in Bend, Oregon last month just driving around with the family while vacationing and there was the Nosler factory! I whipped into the parking lot, went into the shooter's shop, looked at a few nice guns on there wall, chatted with the guy behind the desk and his African big game hunting friend who had stopped in at the same time.

Next time I'm down that way I'm going to call ahead so I can do a full factory tour. They said they'd be happy to do it!

"Hideously inaccurate?" Maybe, maybe not all lost. I do
accuracy gunmithing jobs...and find that almost all factory rifles can be made decently accurate with some tuning. I remember a model 88 Winchester that was a basket case as far as accuracy. I got it shooting 1/2" groups.
So, a blanket statement is usually not completely true...like the "hideously inaccurate" name calling.
Best regards,
Tom

Ishawooa hit the nail on the head when it comes to the two classes of readers of this blog (IMHO). We are not unique unto our sport. How many of us caught all kinds of fish using the same old rod and reel? Today there are multiple types, lengths, and descriptions of rods, each designed to catch one type of fish with one type of artificial lure. After listening to fishing nuts, it's like Foxworth said about going to a state fair, our family doesn't look so bad (or crazy) afterall.

Here we go again. I've already got three new, unfired calibers in my gun safe because I haven't gone on that "special" hunt that requires their Perfect Caliber. Do you suppose that's what it's all about: We buy a new caliber because it allows us to conjure up this endless dream about the hunt we're going to take some day? (Sort of like the same process we go through when we see pictures of booth babes.)

MLH

I often wondered why the 6.5-06 never caught on myself. With a 129 grain bullet would be one awesome Deer and Caribou round!

Bernie;
You should have bought that bargain 338/375 custom rifle and had it reamed to 375 Ruger. Factory ammo, and components, a really great cartridge.
My brother just rechambered/rebored a Browning BAR from 338 to a 375 Ruger and it's an outstanding rifle, fun to shoot. The gas system seems to moderate the recoil better than it did with the 338 chambering more lead, but less velocity, I'm not sure how it works, but it does.
He did nothing other than re-bore the barrel and rechamber it. No gas or magazine mods were required.
AKX

i have a 100 i got in 60 and another70s japan?production ?that blew up on me fired before locked ,i had a 700 bdl re barelled and a 70 win rebarreled to this round left them longer throated to be able to handload longer with way more zip than factory ammo have used them on everything in north america in alaska one shot moose ,kodiak and caribou ,my favorite with 165 grain grand slam loads and H4831powder

Dr. Petzal;
I'll keep my 260, thanks.

To Wingshooter 54: He would have held them in complete and utter contempt.

I'm glad alot of us need that special cliber for each species of game that we hunt. i fanally got a 25-06 last year and it anchored a deer at 150 yards. I think its my most accurate rifle i've shot. i couldn't believe the groups I got after seasoning the barrel and my reloads.Anyways, the 25-06 gets mt vote in this category

All . . .

The 6.5-284 looks an awful lot to me like an Ackley Improved round . . . and I think that's a good thing.

Regarding Mr. Bernie, who commented above about that
"[r]iflemen create problems for themselves when they have rifles built and chambered for uncommon cartridges like the Ackley Improved line and other bizarre creations . . .", I disagree. Sir, you imply that people should only stick with factory-made rifles shooting factory-made ammunition. If this were the case, many (and maybe most) of the standard factory-produced cartridges today wouldn't exist. The 6.5-284, the 7mm-08, the 7.62x51 (created for the U.S. military by somebody, but not by Remington or Winchester, I believe), the .257 Roberts (created by Ned Roberts back in the 1920s or so), the 25-06, the Weatherby line of cartridges, and the 7x57 Mauser and 30-06 (both made for the militaries of their respective countries, then adopted by factories into standard production cartridges) are just a few examples that come to mind. I believe that every one of the above-mentioned cartridges was invented by a wildcatter or experimenter or shooter or gunmaker or benchrester (or someone like these people), and then later adopted by, or developed into production by commercial factory ammunition makers. (Roy Weatherby didn't start out with a big factory. He started out with an imagination, creativity, and a whole bunch of .300 H&H cartridges that he experimented with.)

People who experiment with AI cartridges, or who develop their own cartridges (Jim Carmichael's .260 Cheetah [I believe that is what he called it] that became the .260 Remington, for example) are a primary reason, and are maybe THE primary reason, why we have advances and choices today regarding cartridges to shoot, rather than merely those some corporate executive at some ammo factory "chooses" for us American shooters to shoot (and for that executive to profit from). I'm all for individuality, for experimentation, and for wildcat and improved cartridge development by any sane, reasonably competent person who wants to do so. Bravo to the cartridge developers and experimenters "out there."

I own and regularly handload and shoot several rifles in Ackley Improved calibers. More specifically, I shoot a .257 AI, a 7x57 AI and a 280 AI. The only "problems" I have with them are when I screw up, when I err, when I make a mistake during the handloading process, however such a thing could happen (and does) to anyone who handloads any cartridge. I have no one to blame when and if something unusual happens other than myself, and I'm perfectly okay with that. Also, when I had these rifles put together--one of them is an E.R. Shaw Mark VII LH bolt-action in .257 AI--I didn't purchase them with the idea of selling them. I've replaced the barrels on two of the rifles after several years of high-volume shooting, and it would be just as easy for me (if I wanted to) to rechamber any of the rifles (or all of them) in standard factory cartridges . . . but since I handload anyway, and since at least the .257 AI and 7x57 AI are supremely efficient lots-of-performance-for-the-powder-consumed cartridges (and the .280 AI is no slouch either), I see no point in rechambering my rifles to standard factory rounds. I'm happy with my AI rounds, and I suspect most people who've spent any time developing and shooting their own AI loads feel the same way. P.O. Ackley knew what he was doing.

In summation, I've very rarely regretted any of my many experiments (and a few dollars spent over the years to gunsmiths I personally know rather than to Remington or Winchester) with any of the AI rifles and cartridges I load for, shoot, and occasionally hunt with. My AI rifles and cartridges work well for me. I think they work well for most people who use them.

T.W. Davidson

T.W.

Welcome back! have not seen you post in a while.

Best regards,
WMH

To White Bison: The very best I ever heard of an 88 shooting was 1.5-inch; it was a .308 and belonged to John Wooters. John also owns a gorgeous .284 88 that was built by Joe Balickie, but I have no idea what kind of groups it turns in.

To Ralph the Rifleman: Nope, I don't have one in the works. I'm currently shooting a Nosler Model 48 and a Savage Model 11 Long Range Hunting Rifle in 6.5/284, and it has been an education. More on both in the future.

Ahh but are they in a short action rifle that kicks like a...something that doesn't kick very hard? The point of this round as far as I can tell was to replace .300 magnums in matches. Same ballistics, "more inherent accuracy", high BC (higher than the 140 grain 7s), without the heavy recoil.

WAM I am taking your advice. That 350 Rem mag has a thick solid factory recoil pad that is nearly hard as a rock.
Bill is going to put a new pad on it for me. It will be a kick-eez or limb-saver not sure which. He says both are very good.

Useful range of this 6.5-284 surpasses the 6.5x55 by about 100 yards for any given application, allot of $$$$ for 100 yards!

Off topic, but..........

Poll Results

Thank you for voting.

Do you think toy guns should be banned completely?

Yes, they're more trouble than they're worth. 50%

No, they're harmless -- generations of boys have grown up with toy guns. 44%

I can't decide. 6%

From:
http://www.nydailynews.com/

Not only do they want to take our guns, seems they even want to take our kids toy guns!

And Back on topic, anything 6.5 catches my attention, I shoot an old 6.5 swede I sporterized. Loaded up some 155 gr. (or close to it, memory sucketh) test rounds, seems to like the heavier bullets and that was the heaviest SP bullet I could find in 6.5. I'll see how in works in a few days (I hope).

kudukid pbr 25-06 291 yards, 257 weatherby 317 yards, 6.5x55 260 yards and finally 6.5-284 norma 295 yards..
the comparison is apt, but were talking usefull range here and then u have to add energy too. anything id be comfortable shooting as far as 300 yards with an old 6.5x55 id take a shot at on 400 yards with a good conscience ;) 2650fps compared to 3000fps...

In about 1974 I traded for two lever rifles, a M99 Savage in .300 Sav, and a M88 Win. in .284. I didn't want the Win. but it was a package deal, and I got the whole works for less than the M99 was worth. There were about 200 .284 cases in the deal, and I kept them when I sold the M88,(I did shoot it enough to verify the sob stories I had heard about the rifle, 3"groups at 100yds.). I stored the brass in a zip-loc bag which I stored in a steel ammo box.
From time to time I go through my extensive collection of brass, and wonder when I will build that 6.5/.284, but I'm running out of time. If one truly wants the best for less I can't see where you could go wrong with this cartridge for deer, black bear and elk at any reasonable range.
To TW Davidson; Most don't understand what the urge to do something different is like. You said exactly what my thinking is concerning wildcats. I built my first in 1961, a .22/250 my second 1963, a .25/06, also a .222.5 the same year, totally designed by me. The latter will never be picked up by any company, but by golly I have one that NOBODY else has. The old Donaldson Wasp was built for me by another man and so was the the .219AI Zipper, but the order was made by me. All these wildcats have served me well, and I don't worry about resale, I didn't build or have them built for resale. They were built for my pleasure alone. My family is provided for and they are not dependent on the sale of my toys for a lively hood after my passing, so my conscience is clear. In short, it's been a blast. The others don't know what they're missing.

I think I have mentioned this before but back in the thirties when Ernest Hemingway lived part time in the Sunlight Basin area of Wyoming he hunted mostly with a 6.5 Mannlicher for elk and deer. Apparently he was satisfied with the performance and probably amazed some of the local .30-30 and .30-'06 shooters as well. Perhaps this choice was developed from the years he previously spent living in various parts of Europe.

Thanks for bringing this great cartrige up Mr. Petzal. I think the 6.5x284 will be a winner too. It is NOT speed or muzzle energy that make it unique. It happens to strike that magic balance point in consistent propellant burn that produces REAL consistent velocities (like the famed 6mm PPC). This is critical to extreme accuracy (i.e. five shot groups that looks like one bullet hole) and for those who like to hit where they are aiming, this is important. For me, accuracy is everything and it has proven beneficial in hunting situations many a time in my life. I like the .270 too but there is NO WAY that its long slim case will produce propulsion consistency like the 6.5x284. Secondly, the high BC of the 6.5 bullets causes them to hold their speed for long range shooting and to penetrate deeper in big game. The .270 is close enough on penetration but you won't find too many of them on the F-Class line. Finally, I'd like to say that I agree wholeheartedly with TWD above. Some like to shoot and reload and tinker... others like to reach in the closet and grab their trusty rifle and get a nice deer with one shot each year. I see and respect both perspectives on this blog. I however have too much fun reloading, tinkering and shooting everything to be happy with one shot a year. My life has been a constant pursuit of accuracy and although I havent't spent a fortune on it, the quest has been most satisfying. I enjoy wildcats and have never had a problem hunting with them (even though the 6.5x284 is NOT a wildcat). I buy/make rifles for me, not my heirs. I fly with my 11 pounds of ammo and am ready to shoot upon arrival at any hunting or shooting destination. I don't depend on the local drug store carrying my ammo for success. My 11 pounds of ammo not only shoot better but cost less than a couple of boxes of factory ammmo at that store. I have never run out of ammo on a hunt but do carry dies along so I can crank out reloads if necessary. I thank you Mr. Petzal for your perspective and I look forward to part two... hoping your assessment considers its accuracy.

For the past 16 years I've been using an Utra Light Arms rifle in 284 Winchester. The Ultra Light has a 3" magazine which allows you to reload OAL beyond the 2.8" which is normal for the 284. Been pretty happy with 140 gr Barmes TSX bullets. Very light gun, little recoil, very accurate, and reaches out to touch whatever. Have taken whitetails, mule deer, antelope, and this year chasing elk in Montana. For a 50+ year old cartridge, I see no good reason to switch....Happy Hunting.

All:

Thank you for the compliments and the welcome-back. I've been away from this blog for a while, tending to other matters in life, but it's nice to come back and visit.

As I was reading the latest blog comments, it occurred to me that one of the cartridges I have tinkered with for several years--the .280 AI--is now a factory round. It became that way because P.O. Ackley created it, tinkerers and shooters like me played with it and experimented with it for several decades, and Nosler (and perhaps one or two other manufacturers), after recognizing its fine qualities, began producing it as a factory cartridge. (And it's a fine one, a cartridge that gives about 98% of the performance of a 7mm Remington Magnum with quite a bit less powder, less kick, and less recoil-induced, muzzle blast induced flinching/fear of one's rifle.)

When I see the 6.5-284, I note the classic no-taper or minimal-taper case that Ackley prefered in mid-bore and small bore cartridges. I see the sharp shoulder angle which Ackley used as often as possible (though he generally preferred a 40-degree shoulder rather than the 6.5-284's 35-degree shoulder, and some preferred 28-degree shoulders, while the standard .257 Roberts and .270 and 30-06 are around 21-degree shoulders). And I see the high efficiency ratio between case powder capacity and bore size that Ackley insisted upon in his best cartridges, because in those cartridges the shooter gets more bang per grain of powder than in cartridges that are less efficient. This results in cartridges that perform well, at "modern" high velocities, without excessive muzzle blast, barrel wear, throat erosion, and flinch-inducing recoil.

Case in point: My 7x57 AI, on a Remington 700 action with a 24" barrel, uses about 49 grains of Varget or about 51 grains of VVN-550 to push a 130-grain bullet at 3250 fps. That's very little powder. That's mighty fine velocity. I'm using only standard large rifle primers. I'm getting reliable sub-MOA groups. Pressures are okay, no problem, with good case life and no stiff bolts. It's easy, however, to back off the load by half a grain or a grain and shoot the 130-grainers around 3150-3200 fps, which produces a bit less recoil, a bit less pressure, a bit less wear on the brass and the barrel, but is just as deadly and accurate at any sane range. In my mind, that's pretty cool. I get a certain satisfaction out of circling in my load notebook a load I've developed on my own, one that has chronograph/accuracy/OAL length data all meticulously documented, and writing right there in the notebook: "Stop here. This load works."

On a related note, I have discovered that handloading really old cartridges that commercial ammo manufacturers set artifically low pressure maximums on long ago(because the cartridges were used in Mauser 93s and 95s and other actions that were not overly robust) is much like developing loads for AI cartridges--oftentimes, one is stepping into relatively uncharted territory, but for me, that's half the fun of it, and the other half is the sheer challenge of it.

One more case in point (and then I'll be done, I promise): The 7x57 Mauser. How many of us shooters and handloaders out there across America know just how wonderful--and, really, honestly, just how great--this cartridge is when properly loaded in a strong, modern bolt action? It's a crying shame the ammo companies don't reset the SAMMI standards on this cartridge to 60,000 psi or 52,000 CUP and develop (as I have) new load data for these modern SAMMI standards.

The 7x57 Mauser in a strong action, with carefully developed and chronographed loads, will outperform the 7mm-08 (because the 7x57 has more case capacity by several grains) and come within 100 fps of the 270 or 280. It is a supremely efficient round, particularly with bullet weights of 150-grains and under, down to 120-grains or so. It is not difficult, and it is perfectly safe in a strong action, to get 130-grain bullets out the door at just a tad over 3000 fps. It is not difficult, and it is perfectly safe in a strong action, to get 139-grain SSTs out the door at 2900 fps in a 22" barrel or up to around 2950 fps in a 24" barrel. Recoil? What recoil? Muzzle blast? What muzzle blast? Accuracy in my glass-bedded, pillared and free-floated Model 70 Featherweight? Sub-MOA. It is a fantastic round, one I've come to like as much as any of my AI rounds, though I've had to develop it exactly as if it were one of my AI rounds. But again, that's the pleasure, the satisfaction and the challenge of it. I may never hunt again, or I might go pig hunting two weeks from now, but either way I've got rifles that will shoot as fast as I want them, where I want them, how I want them, and I'm the one who made them that way. That feels pretty good.

Good shooting, good tinkering, and safe handloading, to all of you.

T.W. Davidson

shane

Check your B.C.'s on 140 grain bullets and crank into a calculator. The 6.5 does not have enough edge in BC to overcome 300+ fps advantage. Concur on the blast, but recoil from a 7mm with 139 or 140 gr bullets is not unpleasant except for the weaker among us.

The Desert Eagle .357 & the 600 6.5 Rem Mag started my life as a reloader, I could not afford to shoot the Eagle as often as I would like and in "85" could not find 6.5 RM factory ammo as easily as I would have liked. These Texas deer pass on to the great oatfield quite nicely when the 100gr.Hdy.SP makes contact. I have a 7 Mag that the bbl.is about shot out and will be reborn a 6.5 RM as I would like to try some of 125gr. to 129gr. jacketed or a 120gr. homogeneous bullet like Barnes. I would be able seat the bullet out as to not eat up case capacity, this should shine as brightly 6.5-284, I have plenty of Rem Mag brass. 13 yrs of working for Doc's Walthers here in Tx.,the gun shows gave me a chance to locate all I had a need for. Without the belt these two cartridges are near the same. Shoot, Hunt, Live ! God Bless Marine

I've been shooting a 6.5 Rem Mag in one of the original 700 BDL's since the mid 1960s. All I ever heard from the "experts" was that the 6.5 RM was a weak cousin to the 7mm and wasn't enough cartridge to kill a big deer, let alone all the elk mine has dropped, and that that my 700 with its 24 inch barrel defeated the "purpose" of the 6.5 RM. Now, along comes the 6.5-.284, a virtual ballistic duplicate and it is the greatest 6.5 ever. I don't get it, but I sure enjoy those elk steaks.

Hi blueridge ya typo 160 grainer grand slams and the145 gs are just great on deer to black bear i like imr 4064 for the 145 gs got about 20 pages of homemade trails on the longer bore barreled bolts in 284 guess its just my favorite to play with

Sorry forgot just one more thing for Dave Petzal, I grew up in central Pa. in a shooting family and the name Alex Hoyer is legendary around here, as in 6.5x300 Weatherby-Wright-Hoyer not just Weatherby-Wright. I'm not trying to be rude, I just believe the efforts of Mr.Hoyer should be acknowleged as well. He may not be as well known as Roy Weatherby but in this area any rifle that's felt his touch will outprice any Weatherby any day of the week. As an aside his name is synonymous with the original Pennsylvania 1000 Yd Club wich led the way to where we are as a shooting society today with all the interest/addiction in long range 1000+ yd shooting.

The point of this round as far as I can tell was to replace .300 magnums in matches. good news for me