


September 09, 2010
Deeter: Are Bass Pros Afraid of Fly Rods?
By Kirk Deeter

Tim and I are at the International Fly Tackle Dealer (IFTD) trade show in Denver this week. Stay tuned for updates on hot new products, trends in the industry, etc.
One hypothetical question that came up at the dinner table last night:
If the fly industry put a "bounty" on winning a major FLW or B.A.S.S. event with fly tackle... say $500,000... do you think some pros would take up the challenge? More importantly, do you think young anglers might be more inclined to start using fly rods for bass fishing?
I know, I know... existing rules specifically prohibit the use of fly tackle in some bass fishing tournaments. My question is... why? If they're "flea rods" and not as effective as baitcasters or spinning rods, what's to worry? Maybe it's all about market protection. And maybe the barriers between those "snobby" fly fishers and the bass nation weren't put there by the fly people after all... Just a thought. --Deeter
Comments (32)
Put up that kind of money and you'll find more fly guys cross training into the bass world. Since I've been moonlighting in the bass world and learning baitcasters, you can't beat the distance they have, nor the speed for covering water, so I don't see why they don't allow them. The only thing I've seen rule-wise that makes sense is the rod length rule. FLW tour allows fly tackle, but the rods must be under 8' like the bass guys rods.
Put a bounty up for a Bassmaster Classic or Forrest Wood Cup champion who uses fly fishing gear? GREAT idea! If the fly industry could coordinate this, I would be impressed.
I don't know a thing about fly fishing, as I've fished bass tourneys since I was a teen. The introduction of a viable new set of skills would lead to new applications and hybridized techniques, perhaps mixing fly gear with baitcast and spinning concepts. I'm a fan of anything that furthers the evolution of angling and introduces novel techniques. This could create a whole new market that combines bass nation firms and fly industry companies...
...but yeah, I wouldn't be caught dead waving one of those dinky fly wands around, lol.
How can I be a contratian from Deeter on this one? I haven't given it a lot of thought yet but....the fly fishing spokespersons, the hierarchy if I can call them that, do not like competitions in fly fishing, along with a lot of other fly anglers as well. There have been some fly fishing competitions, and they get lots of flack for having them. They don't feel it should be any part of why we choose to fly fish. Fish numbers caught, and promoting the need to catch fish as the number one reason why we fly fish is not to be promoted...I guess that is somewhat correct. Funny those fly anglers. I get a kick how they negatively react to a gal in a bikini promoting fly fishing in an advertisement of a product.
Say, I'd like to be removed from the negatively reacting fly fisher types.....just for the record ya know.....
Say makes a good point as far as the divergence in culture between the fly world and bass nation. The mucky mucks of both industries probably wouldn't go for it because of the contrasting target markets/audiences.
It's a cool concept but the clash of civilizations might be too great to overcome.
Plus, if a cardigan-clad fly rodder saw a good ole boy like me trying to double-haul for schooling smallies, he'd probably drop his chardonnay in shock!
Wouldn't "Show & Tale" be disastrous!
I can just picture that hook swiping the toupee right off the Boss's head!
They're prohibited because they could be an unfair advantage. I'm a no good fly fisherman, and I just murder bass when I use one.
koldbut, I don't really see that as negative not wanting to create competition between a spin, or baitcaster, and a fly angler as to who is the best. I don't fly fish for that reason. I just enjoy it. It is a non factor to me to have a spin guy say his equipment is more effective than my fly gear.
The rod length rules keep most fly rods out of the picture. The rod length rule is in place because guys were building 14 ft flipping sticks. I guess they decided it was too easy to pluck bass out of cover that way.
A fly fisherman as much as I hate to say it would get absolutely dominated. These tournaments aren't about catching more bass than your bubba friends who poke fun at your fly rod. You have a time limit to catch the heaviest limit of fish out there and that usually means covering water and some water just can't be covered by a fly rod in a resonable amount of time. Bass buried in grass, trees, or hell just hanging in deep water are just not accessable to fly fishing. Basically the risk reward ratio just ain;t worth it.
bluegass, Very sensible, and to the factual point post. Whatever publicity it got would be a plus for the fishing industry, but the fly angler would have virtually no chance as you stated.
You could make it ONE MILLION DOLLARS (use Dr. Evil voice and gesture) and it wouldn't matter - there's just no way to out-bass fish another baitcast-using professional with a flyrod with time limits imposed.
I think that for every stereotypical "snooty fly fisherman" or "good ole boy bass fisherman" out there, there are at least 4 or 5 guys who just flat out like to fish and are proficient with and can enjoy both conventional and fly gear. I personnally wear a Bass Pro Shops cardigan with a camo baseball cap and sip chardonnay from a thermos with a dip of Copenhagen in my lip regardless of which rod I pick up.
haha, point taken tkbone...well put.
And if I do happen to see you out on the lake in that getup, hats off to you.
I hope my girl doesn't find out about these Bass Pro Shops cardigans, or you know what I'll be wearing to the next Christmas party...
Good points from all but I will add...
The deciding factor will be economics. Most if not all pro fisherman have sponsors who are somehow associated with the bass industry. Why sponsor a fisherman who is supporting the fly industry?
Likewise why would the fly industry promote a fly fisherman during a BASS event when they know he will get his a$$ kicked.
Outside of economics it is cast-per-minute and the ability to go deep quick which will also give the bait caster the decided advantage.
There are scenarios where a fly rod will beat a bait caster but a BASS event is not one of them.
I'm surprised at the lack of optimism on the part of most on here. I think it can be done, especially when finesse tactics come into play. It would take a person like Conway Bowman to throw down and show a few how effective it can be.
I do agree that it would be very hard for anyone who is sponsored to take the time to fly fish when their livelihood is on the line(and reputation).
Where there is will to play there would become a rule to allow the inclusion of fly fisherman. Why do fly fisherman have to complete under the same restrictions. Develop a new division, rules and boundaries for the contest. we can't compete with in the same arena, just as NASCAR doesn't compete with Formula 1... but they are both racing high powered cars. Competitive Bass Fly Fishing doesn't have to be the poor bastard child, it just another part of the same dog.
Those good ol boys are flipping $40 plugs with $1000 custom rods. Their bait casters cost as much as a used boat and they water ski 3 pound bass with 20 lb braided super line. I'd rather listen to rap music than watch any of them. For me hunting and fishing is about getting outdoors, teaching kids about or heritage and hopefully bring home dinner. If you spend $1000 so you can be like Skeet- I feel sorry for you. I was fly fishing before that STUPID %$@$% movie and the bass industry would love to have yuppie money pouring in.
Those rules are definitely about market production. good observation.
yrs-
Evan!
Nobody is using a $1000 dollar rod for bass, the majority of the rods the pros use are less than a high end fly rod. Regardless, though I can see some instances where a fly rod could compete with normal tackle it is very unlikely that it would win, no matter the individual fisherman. Its a numbers game, the odds would be stacked against a single angler. Having a fly division could be nifty but I doubt it would get much headway. It would be extremely difficult for another Tournament series to exist, BASS and FLW are seeing lower participation as are the PAA events. I just don't see people being as interested in watching a product that would be inferior (not necessarily in skill but in results) like the WNBA is.
er, protection. I meant to type protection in my post.
vtbasser, Less than a high end flyrod? You could by a a number of those lunker sticks for the price of a high end flyrod! No need to spend a lot of money on the baitcaster rods they use. Ever pick one up? I have, and am amazed at what they might call a medium action. The thing is stiffo-biffo. A 100lb bow is easier to bend than one of those things. But I don't want to put them down. They have a great industry, and are good sportsman. And the equipment they use is right for the circumstances. But the reality again is a fly guy has about as much chance as winning the state lotto. While he's false casting and fishing in the air, the bait guy has made 4 or 5 effective casts with an action lure of size a fly guy can not even duplicate much of the time. And here is an example. I float my river for big browns, at a certain time of year, and it is nearing that time covering lots of water. I have my wife throwing a 1/4 oz white jig when the water is cold, on her baitcaster, steelhead rod. If a brown is there it is a hookup. I then drop my anchor, and use my flyrod. An incredibly effective technique.
BOO a POX on competetive fishing, BASS Tournaments are an abomination to me.
We should fish for the pleasure we get and as a side benefit, some good eats.
Fishing for money is a crass commercial act that no true sportsman should ever take part in.
To be on the same lake on the day of a tournament is to take a chance on being overun by rude, crude and socially unacceptable boobs who have no respect for others on the water. If tournaments are held, they should only be held on private lakes, never on public waters.
I doubt many pros would take you up on the bounty. The truth is they are in it to win tournaments, but they are going to use the most efficient tackle to also just make checks in events. There have been several fly fishermen fish tournaments like the American Fishing Series (formerly the Stren Series and Everstarts Series) out west. Those guys haven't faired nearly as well as their baitcasting or spinning counterparts.
The restrictions on rods have never been to keep fly fishermen out of tournament fishing. The old 8-foot rod length rule was because of the days of guys using 10-foot doodlesock rods and jerking big bass off beds with heavy tackle or out of places other competitors could not effectively reach with a conventional cast. It's how flipping and pitching were born.
Having two anglers in one boat has limited the capacity for more fly anglers than anything. That and most tournaments are won away from the bank in deeper water on stained to muddy fisheries where fly tackle would become less practical.
That's why I don't believe fly fishing will ever take hold at the upper echelon of tournament bass fishing no matter what bounty you offer.
I certainly won't debate the merits of tournament fishing to recreational anglers. To each their own. I hope you all catch a bunch!
A day on the water. Time-limited fishing where only bulk fish meat counts? What a silly thing to do. Yeah, I know the pros have $pon$or$hip. The best reply above suggests a fly-gear division in tournaments. Rather than just gas about it: do it.
Ok, on a regular basis, no, fly fishermen couldn't compete in pro bass tournaments. But I'm convinced that there are some situations where a fly guy could hold his own - a few years ago I fished a tourney on the Madison Chain in Wisconsin, and I definitely think a fly fisherman could have weighed in a good stringer. Overall, the bass were small and preferred small baits, and the water was shallow. The river and some canals had some current, and in that scenario, flies could have done the job. Obviously no one is going to do well going to Amistad or Guntersville with a fly rod, but if a fly fisherman carefully chose a fishery and a situation, he could do well in a pro tournament...I would definitely support a guy who at least tried!
I'm with Koldcut, so much negativity. Yes it would be much harder on the fly guys, but I would like to see it. Every time I head out to the river to go bass fishing I contemplate taking my fly rod. But I always go with my spinning gear just because I dont want to waist a trip. If I saw more guys fly fishing bass, my own confidence would grow.
aferraro: Your right on with the 'jet sking' bass, I just cant watch tournaments anymore primarily for that reason. It just takes all the fun out of it. But for them its not fun its work.
Deet ~
Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Til Earth and Sky stand presently at God's Great Judgement Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face,
tho' they come from the ends of the Earth.
Rudyard Kipling
In other words, it'll never happen.
Deet ~ Sorry man, I never really answered the topic headline question.
Answer...No, why should they be afraid?
count...You must be drinkin the same suds that Deeter drinks. :)
bass pros PFF! don't get me started. fly rod or no fly rod, who cares? the 'sport' (if that's what you insist on calling it) is nothing but fat, corporate sponsors clambering to cover an honest fisherman with their logos. I'm tired of an honest sport,like fishing, getting all dolled up with 'must have' gear, $500 rods, etc.
Headfor, So what do you have against folks working for a company, and being able to hold their job, or new jobs created? That is the American capitalist way, and called marketing. We have enough unemployment right now.
It certainly sounds like there are a lot of intimidated conventional anglers. I have been fly fishing for Bass and Bluegill since the age of 5. Now I am 45 years old and more enthused by the thought of a Bass tournament with fly gear than ever. So many of you are so shallow minded when it comes to fly fishing and stereotyping fly fisherman is what racism is made of. I started my journey on Kentucky lake since it is just 15 minutes from my house. If you ever hook in to a 5lb + largemouth or some of the big stripers below Ky. and Barkley dams you will be forever a fly bum with no hope like me. Get off your lazy minded asses and give it a try.
This is so cool. I hope to have learned this too. Anyway, I have created a website for fly fishing and I hope you guys could get to visit it. Here is the link http://www.sammaka.com/
Post a Comment
You could make it ONE MILLION DOLLARS (use Dr. Evil voice and gesture) and it wouldn't matter - there's just no way to out-bass fish another baitcast-using professional with a flyrod with time limits imposed.
I think that for every stereotypical "snooty fly fisherman" or "good ole boy bass fisherman" out there, there are at least 4 or 5 guys who just flat out like to fish and are proficient with and can enjoy both conventional and fly gear. I personnally wear a Bass Pro Shops cardigan with a camo baseball cap and sip chardonnay from a thermos with a dip of Copenhagen in my lip regardless of which rod I pick up.
Good points from all but I will add...
The deciding factor will be economics. Most if not all pro fisherman have sponsors who are somehow associated with the bass industry. Why sponsor a fisherman who is supporting the fly industry?
Likewise why would the fly industry promote a fly fisherman during a BASS event when they know he will get his a$$ kicked.
Outside of economics it is cast-per-minute and the ability to go deep quick which will also give the bait caster the decided advantage.
There are scenarios where a fly rod will beat a bait caster but a BASS event is not one of them.
haha, point taken tkbone...well put.
And if I do happen to see you out on the lake in that getup, hats off to you.
I hope my girl doesn't find out about these Bass Pro Shops cardigans, or you know what I'll be wearing to the next Christmas party...
The rod length rules keep most fly rods out of the picture. The rod length rule is in place because guys were building 14 ft flipping sticks. I guess they decided it was too easy to pluck bass out of cover that way.
A fly fisherman as much as I hate to say it would get absolutely dominated. These tournaments aren't about catching more bass than your bubba friends who poke fun at your fly rod. You have a time limit to catch the heaviest limit of fish out there and that usually means covering water and some water just can't be covered by a fly rod in a resonable amount of time. Bass buried in grass, trees, or hell just hanging in deep water are just not accessable to fly fishing. Basically the risk reward ratio just ain;t worth it.
Where there is will to play there would become a rule to allow the inclusion of fly fisherman. Why do fly fisherman have to complete under the same restrictions. Develop a new division, rules and boundaries for the contest. we can't compete with in the same arena, just as NASCAR doesn't compete with Formula 1... but they are both racing high powered cars. Competitive Bass Fly Fishing doesn't have to be the poor bastard child, it just another part of the same dog.
vtbasser, Less than a high end flyrod? You could by a a number of those lunker sticks for the price of a high end flyrod! No need to spend a lot of money on the baitcaster rods they use. Ever pick one up? I have, and am amazed at what they might call a medium action. The thing is stiffo-biffo. A 100lb bow is easier to bend than one of those things. But I don't want to put them down. They have a great industry, and are good sportsman. And the equipment they use is right for the circumstances. But the reality again is a fly guy has about as much chance as winning the state lotto. While he's false casting and fishing in the air, the bait guy has made 4 or 5 effective casts with an action lure of size a fly guy can not even duplicate much of the time. And here is an example. I float my river for big browns, at a certain time of year, and it is nearing that time covering lots of water. I have my wife throwing a 1/4 oz white jig when the water is cold, on her baitcaster, steelhead rod. If a brown is there it is a hookup. I then drop my anchor, and use my flyrod. An incredibly effective technique.
Put up that kind of money and you'll find more fly guys cross training into the bass world. Since I've been moonlighting in the bass world and learning baitcasters, you can't beat the distance they have, nor the speed for covering water, so I don't see why they don't allow them. The only thing I've seen rule-wise that makes sense is the rod length rule. FLW tour allows fly tackle, but the rods must be under 8' like the bass guys rods.
Put a bounty up for a Bassmaster Classic or Forrest Wood Cup champion who uses fly fishing gear? GREAT idea! If the fly industry could coordinate this, I would be impressed.
I don't know a thing about fly fishing, as I've fished bass tourneys since I was a teen. The introduction of a viable new set of skills would lead to new applications and hybridized techniques, perhaps mixing fly gear with baitcast and spinning concepts. I'm a fan of anything that furthers the evolution of angling and introduces novel techniques. This could create a whole new market that combines bass nation firms and fly industry companies...
...but yeah, I wouldn't be caught dead waving one of those dinky fly wands around, lol.
How can I be a contratian from Deeter on this one? I haven't given it a lot of thought yet but....the fly fishing spokespersons, the hierarchy if I can call them that, do not like competitions in fly fishing, along with a lot of other fly anglers as well. There have been some fly fishing competitions, and they get lots of flack for having them. They don't feel it should be any part of why we choose to fly fish. Fish numbers caught, and promoting the need to catch fish as the number one reason why we fly fish is not to be promoted...I guess that is somewhat correct. Funny those fly anglers. I get a kick how they negatively react to a gal in a bikini promoting fly fishing in an advertisement of a product.
Say, I'd like to be removed from the negatively reacting fly fisher types.....just for the record ya know.....
Say makes a good point as far as the divergence in culture between the fly world and bass nation. The mucky mucks of both industries probably wouldn't go for it because of the contrasting target markets/audiences.
It's a cool concept but the clash of civilizations might be too great to overcome.
Plus, if a cardigan-clad fly rodder saw a good ole boy like me trying to double-haul for schooling smallies, he'd probably drop his chardonnay in shock!
Wouldn't "Show & Tale" be disastrous!
I can just picture that hook swiping the toupee right off the Boss's head!
They're prohibited because they could be an unfair advantage. I'm a no good fly fisherman, and I just murder bass when I use one.
koldbut, I don't really see that as negative not wanting to create competition between a spin, or baitcaster, and a fly angler as to who is the best. I don't fly fish for that reason. I just enjoy it. It is a non factor to me to have a spin guy say his equipment is more effective than my fly gear.
bluegass, Very sensible, and to the factual point post. Whatever publicity it got would be a plus for the fishing industry, but the fly angler would have virtually no chance as you stated.
I'm surprised at the lack of optimism on the part of most on here. I think it can be done, especially when finesse tactics come into play. It would take a person like Conway Bowman to throw down and show a few how effective it can be.
I do agree that it would be very hard for anyone who is sponsored to take the time to fly fish when their livelihood is on the line(and reputation).
Those good ol boys are flipping $40 plugs with $1000 custom rods. Their bait casters cost as much as a used boat and they water ski 3 pound bass with 20 lb braided super line. I'd rather listen to rap music than watch any of them. For me hunting and fishing is about getting outdoors, teaching kids about or heritage and hopefully bring home dinner. If you spend $1000 so you can be like Skeet- I feel sorry for you. I was fly fishing before that STUPID %$@$% movie and the bass industry would love to have yuppie money pouring in.
Those rules are definitely about market production. good observation.
yrs-
Evan!
Nobody is using a $1000 dollar rod for bass, the majority of the rods the pros use are less than a high end fly rod. Regardless, though I can see some instances where a fly rod could compete with normal tackle it is very unlikely that it would win, no matter the individual fisherman. Its a numbers game, the odds would be stacked against a single angler. Having a fly division could be nifty but I doubt it would get much headway. It would be extremely difficult for another Tournament series to exist, BASS and FLW are seeing lower participation as are the PAA events. I just don't see people being as interested in watching a product that would be inferior (not necessarily in skill but in results) like the WNBA is.
er, protection. I meant to type protection in my post.
BOO a POX on competetive fishing, BASS Tournaments are an abomination to me.
We should fish for the pleasure we get and as a side benefit, some good eats.
Fishing for money is a crass commercial act that no true sportsman should ever take part in.
To be on the same lake on the day of a tournament is to take a chance on being overun by rude, crude and socially unacceptable boobs who have no respect for others on the water. If tournaments are held, they should only be held on private lakes, never on public waters.
I doubt many pros would take you up on the bounty. The truth is they are in it to win tournaments, but they are going to use the most efficient tackle to also just make checks in events. There have been several fly fishermen fish tournaments like the American Fishing Series (formerly the Stren Series and Everstarts Series) out west. Those guys haven't faired nearly as well as their baitcasting or spinning counterparts.
The restrictions on rods have never been to keep fly fishermen out of tournament fishing. The old 8-foot rod length rule was because of the days of guys using 10-foot doodlesock rods and jerking big bass off beds with heavy tackle or out of places other competitors could not effectively reach with a conventional cast. It's how flipping and pitching were born.
Having two anglers in one boat has limited the capacity for more fly anglers than anything. That and most tournaments are won away from the bank in deeper water on stained to muddy fisheries where fly tackle would become less practical.
That's why I don't believe fly fishing will ever take hold at the upper echelon of tournament bass fishing no matter what bounty you offer.
I certainly won't debate the merits of tournament fishing to recreational anglers. To each their own. I hope you all catch a bunch!
A day on the water. Time-limited fishing where only bulk fish meat counts? What a silly thing to do. Yeah, I know the pros have $pon$or$hip. The best reply above suggests a fly-gear division in tournaments. Rather than just gas about it: do it.
Ok, on a regular basis, no, fly fishermen couldn't compete in pro bass tournaments. But I'm convinced that there are some situations where a fly guy could hold his own - a few years ago I fished a tourney on the Madison Chain in Wisconsin, and I definitely think a fly fisherman could have weighed in a good stringer. Overall, the bass were small and preferred small baits, and the water was shallow. The river and some canals had some current, and in that scenario, flies could have done the job. Obviously no one is going to do well going to Amistad or Guntersville with a fly rod, but if a fly fisherman carefully chose a fishery and a situation, he could do well in a pro tournament...I would definitely support a guy who at least tried!
I'm with Koldcut, so much negativity. Yes it would be much harder on the fly guys, but I would like to see it. Every time I head out to the river to go bass fishing I contemplate taking my fly rod. But I always go with my spinning gear just because I dont want to waist a trip. If I saw more guys fly fishing bass, my own confidence would grow.
aferraro: Your right on with the 'jet sking' bass, I just cant watch tournaments anymore primarily for that reason. It just takes all the fun out of it. But for them its not fun its work.
Deet ~
Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Til Earth and Sky stand presently at God's Great Judgement Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face,
tho' they come from the ends of the Earth.
Rudyard Kipling
In other words, it'll never happen.
Deet ~ Sorry man, I never really answered the topic headline question.
Answer...No, why should they be afraid?
count...You must be drinkin the same suds that Deeter drinks. :)
bass pros PFF! don't get me started. fly rod or no fly rod, who cares? the 'sport' (if that's what you insist on calling it) is nothing but fat, corporate sponsors clambering to cover an honest fisherman with their logos. I'm tired of an honest sport,like fishing, getting all dolled up with 'must have' gear, $500 rods, etc.
Headfor, So what do you have against folks working for a company, and being able to hold their job, or new jobs created? That is the American capitalist way, and called marketing. We have enough unemployment right now.
It certainly sounds like there are a lot of intimidated conventional anglers. I have been fly fishing for Bass and Bluegill since the age of 5. Now I am 45 years old and more enthused by the thought of a Bass tournament with fly gear than ever. So many of you are so shallow minded when it comes to fly fishing and stereotyping fly fisherman is what racism is made of. I started my journey on Kentucky lake since it is just 15 minutes from my house. If you ever hook in to a 5lb + largemouth or some of the big stripers below Ky. and Barkley dams you will be forever a fly bum with no hope like me. Get off your lazy minded asses and give it a try.
This is so cool. I hope to have learned this too. Anyway, I have created a website for fly fishing and I hope you guys could get to visit it. Here is the link http://www.sammaka.com/
Post a Comment