


January 25, 2013
Big Drilling Plans for the "Mule Deer Factory"
By Bob Marshall

Sportsmen have just a few days left to help stop the Bureau of Land Management from delivering yet another blow to mule deer, elk and sage grouse populations in western Colorado.
Monday marks the end of the public comment period on the BLM’s decision to select a new energy development plan for the 1.7 million-acre White River area near Meeker.
That area could see 15,500 new wells drilled under a management regime that would allow mule deer populations to be reduced by 30 percent below the long-term objectives set by Colorado’s Division of Wildlife.
Sportsmen know they can’t stop the drilling, but they are urging anyone who values fish and wildlife to urge the BLM to select “Alternative B,” which would allow only 5,500 new wells and reduce muley population goals by just 10 percent.
The Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership has an online petition that enables sportsmen to accomplish that important goal with one click.
It’s a shame that any new drilling will be allowed in the area that has a hallowed place in western backcountry fishing and big game hunting.
“At one time this area was known as ‘The Mule Deer Factory,’ but the population has been declining since drilling began here several decades ago,” said Nick Payne, Colorado Field Representative for the TRCP. “And it also contains the Unit 10 elk area, which is one of the most sought after in the state, because it produces so many elk and so many quality elk.
“The kind of intensive development we’re talking about won’t be good news for the hunting and fishing tradition that is such a rich part of the heritage of the area and the state.”
Comments (23)
I added my name to the list. I've been planning a trip out to the White River NF for elk hunting for the coming fall. Sounds like I better get out there sooner than later. If I wanted to hunt next to gas wells, I'd stay at home!
At least they're looking to do it on BLM land and not national forest which I was planning on hunting, but if mule deer and elk drop 30%, it'll likely push more people into the areas I was hoping to go.
just hunted mule deer there last August. It's too bad there doing this, but we have an energy addiction to feed.
This being my back yard I have a little extra insight into the matter. It really is a bit of a double edged sword. While the drill rigs do have SOME effect on the wildlife, it is pretty much nominal. I know of several people who hunt private land with drill rigs on it and have seen great success, my brother being one of them. The roads, rigs, and lights have more effect on the landscape than they do the wildlife. The flip side of all of this is that the energy fields of oil, gas, and coal provide an amazing economical boost to rural areas in western Colorado during terrible financial times. A coal mine in western CO recently had a large layoff and it's devastating. Roughly 400 family men went from a hard to find good paying job with benefits to join the crowds of people looking for work. I think the energy companies need to be highly responsible in their planning of roads and drill sites etc. But until there is another option for the the thousands of families that draw their living from the energy fields, I say, bring em on!
Why doesn't Bob ever link you to the information that he bases his articles on. I would like to read it first hand and just not take ol Bob's word for it.
I agree with rickyno5. It's a hard to sell habitat conservation when it's a struggle just to provide for your family. To be honest I was a little hopefull our President 4 years ago to get us out from under our addicition/relience on foriegn oil. But not so. What's more frustrating is that the technology to really become energy independent is out there and can be very successful, hydrogen fuel cell, yet our do nothing congress and oil lobbyists seem to have squashed that. A solution to our energy needs has to come from the grassroots level.
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Well I signed but I have to agree with rickyno5, a job to support a family is very important and if I had to name the one thing that makes it hard for me to hunt the White River NF and the Flattops it's the outfitters guiding rich paying clients not the drill rigs giving jobs to locals.
Every time I read about Field and Stream writers flying here or there to write stories about hunting and fishing realize where all that Jet A comes from, rigs out by Meeker.
Any suggestion that energy development is a choice between wildlife and jobs is false.
The oil and gas will come out of the ground either way, the choice is how we go about extracting the energy. There are a number of technologies out there that can greatly reduce the footprint and impact of oil and gas development, but those technologies cost a little more to apply.
Isn’t it only fair, in places where we have a world class wildlife and hunting resource, to require that energy development be done in a way that minimizes the impact on big game?
The oil and gas industry consists of the richest companies on earth – I think they can afford to do it the right way to ensure that development is balanced with other multiple-uses.
Sportsmen need to speak up and conserve our sporting heritage before the great deer herds of the West decline more than they already have.
Agreed, Backcountry. How about those other bogus arguments: "Well, how do you heat your home?" and "I don't see you taking a horse and buggy to work?" As if that gives the extraction industry the green light to drill anywhere they choose and automatically forfeits our right to have a say in the matter. Sorry folks, it doesn't work like that. Natural gas and oil consumption isn't going anywhere and that's a fact. But that doesn't mean our country should continue to be ball and chained to destructive fossil fuels. We need to level the playing field, invest in renewable, cleaner energy and start detaching ourselves from the big 3 fossil fuels' teet. They've been leading the ship for too damn long and we've been paying the price.
Backcountry and Realgood,
Do you realize that pretty much everyone agrees that oil/gas and even the coal industries need to be regulated? But do you also realize that the extent of regulation that people like you guys are proposing and supporting is one of the biggest problems those industries (and our economy) are facing? A large percentage of coal mined in the U.S. is now being shipped over seas to China simply because the regulations on power plants are becoming essentially impossible to live up to. This will affect us in several ways. One way being that lots and lots of power plant workers have already been laid off and there will continue to be more laid off. And also China is just gonna burn the crap out of all that coal with zero regulation and I'm pretty sure that the last time I checked we share air with China. The oil/gas industries will always be there as you said, even if their costs go up. But they will get their money out of it regardless, we'll all pay for it at the pump or on our electricity bills. I assume you guys expect to get paid for whatever job you do? Why shouldn't they? Oil companies aren't charities, they're not non-profit organizations. They are a group of men that work, and work hard, FOR MONEY. I'm certainly not going to invest in millions of dollars worth of equipment, engineering, and manpower for goodwill, and you wouldn't either.
You said,
"The oil and gas industry consists of the richest companies on earth – I think they can afford to do it the right way to ensure that development is balanced with other multiple-uses."
One of the richest "companies" on earth had the exact same thought process as you. They had a major change in management and they set the course of this "company" in a direction of "we can afford to help a little more" and it has basically bankrupted them. The company I'm talking about is our U.S. Government. Businesses that make a profit are now looked at as greedy or dishonest, but none of us regular joe's are greedy for accepting our paychecks. Exchange of goods is a pretty simple game. I personally exchange my time for a certain amount of money per hour, period. If I buy a car, I look for one at what I consider to be a reasonable price. Once I find one it doesn't matter if the seller made a ton of money or lost money on the deal, I got a fair price. If we want to make the energy fields do things a particular (more expensive) way, then we can't complain when they charge a higher price for their goods. And just so we're clear, their goods are gas, heat, electricity, etc...the things we need to make a living for our families and provide a safe, comfortable lifestyle for them.
I'm a bit off subject of the effects on wildlife, but I think it's all still relevant. I love hunting, I love the outdoors, and I love my state of Colorado...but I love my family more. And as much as I want to take my son elk hunting in Unit 10 and I hope it is still pristine, it's not going to be much good to me if I can't afford the gas to get him there.
Well said Rickyno5
"A large percentage of coal mined in the U.S. is now being shipped over seas to China simply because the regulations on power plants are becoming essentially impossible to live up to. This will affect us in several ways."
This will affect us in several ways in deed.
- The new Mercury and Air Toxics Standards alone will result in cleaner air and water and we'll avoid 11,000 premature deaths, 4700 heart attacks and 130,000 asthma attacks.
- The Cross-State Air Pollution Rule prevents 13,000 to 34,000 cases of premature deaths a year.
- The American Lung Association has also linked particle pollution to diabetes.
- Illnesses associated with air pollution cost us $150 billion a year.
If China wants our coal, let em'. Aside from public health, their absurd levels of smog and ozone pollution is taking a toll on its crops, plants and thus, food security. Fortune Magazine published an article today called "China's environment: An economic death sentence." I suggest taking a look at the article before envying China any further. China probably sells N95 respirator masks in vending machines next to their bluefin tuna candy bars.
You want to talk about jobs? Solar already employs more people than coal (In fact, solar creates up to 7 times more jobs than coal). The same with wind energy. As a whole, the renewable energy industry generates more jobs per MWA than fossil fuel based industries. Not to mention, workers in the clean-tech sector earn 13% more than the median U.S. wage.
As far as the overblown argument that environmental regulations kill fossil fuel industry jobs goes: According to a UC Berkley Report, "annual layoffs from plants shut down due to environmental regulation have averaged 1,000–3,000 in the United States since the 1970s. Relative to economy-wide layoffs of typically more than 2 million workers each year, this is less than one tenth of 1 percent.”
Getting back to the article, putting up 15,500 new wells in the White River area isn't going to make our gasoline any cheaper. The global economy doesn't work that way. If that was your justification for blindly jumping on board with those energy development plans, I think you should re-evaluate a plan that could seriously threaten crucial habitat and wildlife.
You guys are still all talking about fossil fuels. If we want to get serious about moving away from that and have a endless supply of clean enery we really need to look at and begin investing in bio-fuels and especially hydrogen fuel cell. The technogly is there to potential eleminate large power grids. No more outages, no more hydro-electric plants, rivers will run free, the air will be far cleaner. I mean everything could run on a fuel cell, cars, trucks, large equipment, semi's, even our own houses could be fueld by hydrogen. And the only "pollutant" would be water. I'm not saying we will ever get completely away from fossil fuels. And this could really all happen in the next 10-15 years. Just take the chains of the industry and let the free market run with it.
RealGood,
Thank you for proving my point. China is doing a bad job of managing their pollution. It doesn't affect us too much in the short term, but it obviously has a major global impact over time. That is why I would personally prefer to keep our coal here and manage our emissions as good as we can environmentally as well as financially, there has to be a balance. And solar and wind are pretty much dead until our technology gets better. It just comes with too much cost with too little product. So far it has survived solely off of government grants and stimulus. It will be a day to remember when we can rely on solar or wind power, but we're not even close. It's an industry that can't even break even, let alone be self sustaining.
You said it yourself, "the renewable energy industry generates more jobs per MWA than fossil fuel." You think that's a good point for renewables but all I hear is "costs more" more jobs per MWA equals more money per. But we won't even get into that because like usual "your type" throws around a bunch of hypothetical statistics and tries to sell it as fact. Coal, oil, and gas have been staple industries for a long long time. Thousands and thousands of men have supported their families with these jobs and are proud to do so. You could almost say that these kinds of people are the ones paying the taxes that support the solar and wind energy fields. And that's a fact Jack.
Ricky,
So your point is that you'd like to see toxic pollution insourced back to the states? So much for progress...
I'll break this down for you with the help of the WSJ: "Wind and solar need the help because the barriers for new technologies in the energy industry are tougher than those in any other industry in this country. Fossil fuels, with the help of their own government subsidies over the years, are thoroughly entrenched, with trillions of dollars' worth of infrastructure in place."
The renewable energy industry don't even get a fifth of the subsidies that the fossil fuel industry receives. That number is well over $70 billion/year. Again, all I'm saying is level the playing field. Doing so will allow the technology to further develop and the costs to become more competitive, faster. It's not enough that the U.S. is already set to overtake Saudi Arabia as the number one oil producer in the world? We have to develop some of our last remaining wilderness areas because of some romanticized view of fossil fuel workers that you have? I definitely appreciate the role that mining jobs and its heritage have had on this country just as much as the next guy, but it's 2013 and our current system is not sustainable.
"You could almost say that these kinds of people are the ones paying the taxes that support the solar and wind energy fields." Your referring to the 2.4 million workers with a fossil fuel job? Sure. The 2.7 million workers in clean energy are paying for it as well.
But their paychecks already come out of tax money, so that doesn't really work out. And if you have a global mindset it is much more responsible for us to keep the coal here than contribute to China's affect on global pollution.
Not quite, $48 billion was privately invested in clean tech in 2011.
Ricky, Quit trying to argue with RGM his world only exists in his own mind! He is an "NEE" (Narcissistic extreme enviromentalist) that more than likely benefits finacially from the industry. His internet name and posts prove it. I can't prove it but I think Bob Marshall and RGM is the same person if not they are two scary people. But I'm sure he thinks the same about you and I because we have had the exact same exhange previously. Anyhow there is no way to have a rational conversation with facts with him, and Bob just posts this crap without facts to back his propaganda up, if you do not believe me go back and read his articles! You did what you needed too so before beating your head against a wall walk away. I've been there and done that!
My user name proves that I'm Bob Marshall?
Dcast, I'll say it again. This paranoia and obsession with Bob Marshall should seriously be looked into by a therapist. I'm not kidding.
I've been questioned about my user name on 3 different occasions by people that usually disagree with me. Why? I'm not sure. I guess with the absence of logic people tend to resort to such immature stupidity. "Real Good Man" is a Tim McGraw song. You would have found that out by doing a routine Google Search, but instead you chose to make yourself look like a fool.
An extreme environmentalist? Wrong again. Just a regular guy that likes to hunt and fish, values our lands and resources and has a passion for conservation. Oh, and I can think for myself and put principles over politics. Something you're clearly incapable of. I never have nor do I now consider myself an environmentalist. But I suppose anyone with common sense and a basic understanding of the natural world is an environmentalist to you.
Unfortunately, I do not have any ties to the solar industry, which is a shame because I'd love to have some panels up.
i always get a kick out of the people talking about having to feed their family. i ask you this: how many things have you bough in life and used once or twice and is now collecting dust somewhere? people in this country waste a ton of money, and a lot of it is on things they dont even need or use
The drilling industry runs amok in CO, buying republican and even some democratic legislators to push rules that throw the gates open to big gas/oil at the cost of the environment. Mesa county is a prime example. The industry pays almost nothing to industrialize public wildlands, reap massive profits, and disregard reclamation and safety standards that are minimal at best, again due to the industry controlling the state rulemaking process. The corrupt state energy agency charged with overseeing laws and public interest in drilling is about to be prosecuted, see this week's Denver Post online. Safety and environmental compliance inspections are years behind schedule, environmental "accidents" that pollute groundwater and air are barely investigated. Drillers avoid reclaiming by going to court for years while pollution leaches into surface streams and groundwater, kills fish, and toxifies drinking wells. Fracking (google it if you don't already know)accelerates the damage, while consuming water that is "more valuable than gold" in the arid, droughty western slope of CO. Roads, well pads, pipelines, compressors will remain in place on the landscape for decades to come.
The Roan Plateau has been leased for drilling, illegally per district court, placing at risk some of the finest wildlands in western CO. Geologists have written that 80% of the gas on the Roan can be extracted by directional drilling without disturbing the surface of the plateau, where endangered trout breed amidst large, wild herds of elk and deer. The industry scoffs at that, despite the concensus opinions of city and county governments adjacent to the Roan who want it left undeveloped. The industry does only as much environmental compliance as they are forced to do by legislation and enforcement, which is a dysfunctional and ineffective process.
I have lived in Colorado for 50 years, and no industrial activity has come close to drilling in producing environmental damage and destruction in this spectacular, fragile state. I stopped hunting in "the deer factory" of Piceance basin, just north of the Roan, when rig density hit 4/square mile. It is an industrial wasteland now, game and hunters have moved out. The squealers ranting that "oil and gas feed my family" came from Texas and elsewhere to drill, baby, drill, and will be gone when the play moves to North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and the other next places. They are destroying what were a magnificent public lands, paying a pittance for that privilege, they only care about high income jobs and record profits. Their loyalty is to their name brand, not to the USA, Colorado, or the White River National Forest (home of the world's largest elk herd). People who live on this land and care for it deeply will tell you the truth about the real cost of drilling in Colorado's wild places, but can't afford expensive ad campaigns. The commercials bought by the industry are flagrant propaganda, designed to sway legislators and uninformed voters. Don't be fooled! Oil and gas development seriously threatens hunting and fishing in Colorado and elsewhere.
First, where's the oil going to be used. U.S. is ok anywhere else not ok
@RGM -- Have pity on Dcast. He doesn't merely "look like" a fool... he's an adult forever doomed to ride the short bus.
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This being my back yard I have a little extra insight into the matter. It really is a bit of a double edged sword. While the drill rigs do have SOME effect on the wildlife, it is pretty much nominal. I know of several people who hunt private land with drill rigs on it and have seen great success, my brother being one of them. The roads, rigs, and lights have more effect on the landscape than they do the wildlife. The flip side of all of this is that the energy fields of oil, gas, and coal provide an amazing economical boost to rural areas in western Colorado during terrible financial times. A coal mine in western CO recently had a large layoff and it's devastating. Roughly 400 family men went from a hard to find good paying job with benefits to join the crowds of people looking for work. I think the energy companies need to be highly responsible in their planning of roads and drill sites etc. But until there is another option for the the thousands of families that draw their living from the energy fields, I say, bring em on!
Any suggestion that energy development is a choice between wildlife and jobs is false.
The oil and gas will come out of the ground either way, the choice is how we go about extracting the energy. There are a number of technologies out there that can greatly reduce the footprint and impact of oil and gas development, but those technologies cost a little more to apply.
Isn’t it only fair, in places where we have a world class wildlife and hunting resource, to require that energy development be done in a way that minimizes the impact on big game?
The oil and gas industry consists of the richest companies on earth – I think they can afford to do it the right way to ensure that development is balanced with other multiple-uses.
Sportsmen need to speak up and conserve our sporting heritage before the great deer herds of the West decline more than they already have.
I added my name to the list. I've been planning a trip out to the White River NF for elk hunting for the coming fall. Sounds like I better get out there sooner than later. If I wanted to hunt next to gas wells, I'd stay at home!
At least they're looking to do it on BLM land and not national forest which I was planning on hunting, but if mule deer and elk drop 30%, it'll likely push more people into the areas I was hoping to go.
I agree with rickyno5. It's a hard to sell habitat conservation when it's a struggle just to provide for your family. To be honest I was a little hopefull our President 4 years ago to get us out from under our addicition/relience on foriegn oil. But not so. What's more frustrating is that the technology to really become energy independent is out there and can be very successful, hydrogen fuel cell, yet our do nothing congress and oil lobbyists seem to have squashed that. A solution to our energy needs has to come from the grassroots level.
Well I signed but I have to agree with rickyno5, a job to support a family is very important and if I had to name the one thing that makes it hard for me to hunt the White River NF and the Flattops it's the outfitters guiding rich paying clients not the drill rigs giving jobs to locals.
Every time I read about Field and Stream writers flying here or there to write stories about hunting and fishing realize where all that Jet A comes from, rigs out by Meeker.
Backcountry and Realgood,
Do you realize that pretty much everyone agrees that oil/gas and even the coal industries need to be regulated? But do you also realize that the extent of regulation that people like you guys are proposing and supporting is one of the biggest problems those industries (and our economy) are facing? A large percentage of coal mined in the U.S. is now being shipped over seas to China simply because the regulations on power plants are becoming essentially impossible to live up to. This will affect us in several ways. One way being that lots and lots of power plant workers have already been laid off and there will continue to be more laid off. And also China is just gonna burn the crap out of all that coal with zero regulation and I'm pretty sure that the last time I checked we share air with China. The oil/gas industries will always be there as you said, even if their costs go up. But they will get their money out of it regardless, we'll all pay for it at the pump or on our electricity bills. I assume you guys expect to get paid for whatever job you do? Why shouldn't they? Oil companies aren't charities, they're not non-profit organizations. They are a group of men that work, and work hard, FOR MONEY. I'm certainly not going to invest in millions of dollars worth of equipment, engineering, and manpower for goodwill, and you wouldn't either.
You said,
"The oil and gas industry consists of the richest companies on earth – I think they can afford to do it the right way to ensure that development is balanced with other multiple-uses."
One of the richest "companies" on earth had the exact same thought process as you. They had a major change in management and they set the course of this "company" in a direction of "we can afford to help a little more" and it has basically bankrupted them. The company I'm talking about is our U.S. Government. Businesses that make a profit are now looked at as greedy or dishonest, but none of us regular joe's are greedy for accepting our paychecks. Exchange of goods is a pretty simple game. I personally exchange my time for a certain amount of money per hour, period. If I buy a car, I look for one at what I consider to be a reasonable price. Once I find one it doesn't matter if the seller made a ton of money or lost money on the deal, I got a fair price. If we want to make the energy fields do things a particular (more expensive) way, then we can't complain when they charge a higher price for their goods. And just so we're clear, their goods are gas, heat, electricity, etc...the things we need to make a living for our families and provide a safe, comfortable lifestyle for them.
I'm a bit off subject of the effects on wildlife, but I think it's all still relevant. I love hunting, I love the outdoors, and I love my state of Colorado...but I love my family more. And as much as I want to take my son elk hunting in Unit 10 and I hope it is still pristine, it's not going to be much good to me if I can't afford the gas to get him there.
Well said Rickyno5
My user name proves that I'm Bob Marshall?
Dcast, I'll say it again. This paranoia and obsession with Bob Marshall should seriously be looked into by a therapist. I'm not kidding.
I've been questioned about my user name on 3 different occasions by people that usually disagree with me. Why? I'm not sure. I guess with the absence of logic people tend to resort to such immature stupidity. "Real Good Man" is a Tim McGraw song. You would have found that out by doing a routine Google Search, but instead you chose to make yourself look like a fool.
An extreme environmentalist? Wrong again. Just a regular guy that likes to hunt and fish, values our lands and resources and has a passion for conservation. Oh, and I can think for myself and put principles over politics. Something you're clearly incapable of. I never have nor do I now consider myself an environmentalist. But I suppose anyone with common sense and a basic understanding of the natural world is an environmentalist to you.
Unfortunately, I do not have any ties to the solar industry, which is a shame because I'd love to have some panels up.
The drilling industry runs amok in CO, buying republican and even some democratic legislators to push rules that throw the gates open to big gas/oil at the cost of the environment. Mesa county is a prime example. The industry pays almost nothing to industrialize public wildlands, reap massive profits, and disregard reclamation and safety standards that are minimal at best, again due to the industry controlling the state rulemaking process. The corrupt state energy agency charged with overseeing laws and public interest in drilling is about to be prosecuted, see this week's Denver Post online. Safety and environmental compliance inspections are years behind schedule, environmental "accidents" that pollute groundwater and air are barely investigated. Drillers avoid reclaiming by going to court for years while pollution leaches into surface streams and groundwater, kills fish, and toxifies drinking wells. Fracking (google it if you don't already know)accelerates the damage, while consuming water that is "more valuable than gold" in the arid, droughty western slope of CO. Roads, well pads, pipelines, compressors will remain in place on the landscape for decades to come.
The Roan Plateau has been leased for drilling, illegally per district court, placing at risk some of the finest wildlands in western CO. Geologists have written that 80% of the gas on the Roan can be extracted by directional drilling without disturbing the surface of the plateau, where endangered trout breed amidst large, wild herds of elk and deer. The industry scoffs at that, despite the concensus opinions of city and county governments adjacent to the Roan who want it left undeveloped. The industry does only as much environmental compliance as they are forced to do by legislation and enforcement, which is a dysfunctional and ineffective process.
I have lived in Colorado for 50 years, and no industrial activity has come close to drilling in producing environmental damage and destruction in this spectacular, fragile state. I stopped hunting in "the deer factory" of Piceance basin, just north of the Roan, when rig density hit 4/square mile. It is an industrial wasteland now, game and hunters have moved out. The squealers ranting that "oil and gas feed my family" came from Texas and elsewhere to drill, baby, drill, and will be gone when the play moves to North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and the other next places. They are destroying what were a magnificent public lands, paying a pittance for that privilege, they only care about high income jobs and record profits. Their loyalty is to their name brand, not to the USA, Colorado, or the White River National Forest (home of the world's largest elk herd). People who live on this land and care for it deeply will tell you the truth about the real cost of drilling in Colorado's wild places, but can't afford expensive ad campaigns. The commercials bought by the industry are flagrant propaganda, designed to sway legislators and uninformed voters. Don't be fooled! Oil and gas development seriously threatens hunting and fishing in Colorado and elsewhere.
First, where's the oil going to be used. U.S. is ok anywhere else not ok
Why doesn't Bob ever link you to the information that he bases his articles on. I would like to read it first hand and just not take ol Bob's word for it.
Agreed, Backcountry. How about those other bogus arguments: "Well, how do you heat your home?" and "I don't see you taking a horse and buggy to work?" As if that gives the extraction industry the green light to drill anywhere they choose and automatically forfeits our right to have a say in the matter. Sorry folks, it doesn't work like that. Natural gas and oil consumption isn't going anywhere and that's a fact. But that doesn't mean our country should continue to be ball and chained to destructive fossil fuels. We need to level the playing field, invest in renewable, cleaner energy and start detaching ourselves from the big 3 fossil fuels' teet. They've been leading the ship for too damn long and we've been paying the price.
"A large percentage of coal mined in the U.S. is now being shipped over seas to China simply because the regulations on power plants are becoming essentially impossible to live up to. This will affect us in several ways."
This will affect us in several ways in deed.
- The new Mercury and Air Toxics Standards alone will result in cleaner air and water and we'll avoid 11,000 premature deaths, 4700 heart attacks and 130,000 asthma attacks.
- The Cross-State Air Pollution Rule prevents 13,000 to 34,000 cases of premature deaths a year.
- The American Lung Association has also linked particle pollution to diabetes.
- Illnesses associated with air pollution cost us $150 billion a year.
If China wants our coal, let em'. Aside from public health, their absurd levels of smog and ozone pollution is taking a toll on its crops, plants and thus, food security. Fortune Magazine published an article today called "China's environment: An economic death sentence." I suggest taking a look at the article before envying China any further. China probably sells N95 respirator masks in vending machines next to their bluefin tuna candy bars.
You want to talk about jobs? Solar already employs more people than coal (In fact, solar creates up to 7 times more jobs than coal). The same with wind energy. As a whole, the renewable energy industry generates more jobs per MWA than fossil fuel based industries. Not to mention, workers in the clean-tech sector earn 13% more than the median U.S. wage.
As far as the overblown argument that environmental regulations kill fossil fuel industry jobs goes: According to a UC Berkley Report, "annual layoffs from plants shut down due to environmental regulation have averaged 1,000–3,000 in the United States since the 1970s. Relative to economy-wide layoffs of typically more than 2 million workers each year, this is less than one tenth of 1 percent.”
Getting back to the article, putting up 15,500 new wells in the White River area isn't going to make our gasoline any cheaper. The global economy doesn't work that way. If that was your justification for blindly jumping on board with those energy development plans, I think you should re-evaluate a plan that could seriously threaten crucial habitat and wildlife.
Ricky,
So your point is that you'd like to see toxic pollution insourced back to the states? So much for progress...
I'll break this down for you with the help of the WSJ: "Wind and solar need the help because the barriers for new technologies in the energy industry are tougher than those in any other industry in this country. Fossil fuels, with the help of their own government subsidies over the years, are thoroughly entrenched, with trillions of dollars' worth of infrastructure in place."
The renewable energy industry don't even get a fifth of the subsidies that the fossil fuel industry receives. That number is well over $70 billion/year. Again, all I'm saying is level the playing field. Doing so will allow the technology to further develop and the costs to become more competitive, faster. It's not enough that the U.S. is already set to overtake Saudi Arabia as the number one oil producer in the world? We have to develop some of our last remaining wilderness areas because of some romanticized view of fossil fuel workers that you have? I definitely appreciate the role that mining jobs and its heritage have had on this country just as much as the next guy, but it's 2013 and our current system is not sustainable.
"You could almost say that these kinds of people are the ones paying the taxes that support the solar and wind energy fields." Your referring to the 2.4 million workers with a fossil fuel job? Sure. The 2.7 million workers in clean energy are paying for it as well.
But their paychecks already come out of tax money, so that doesn't really work out. And if you have a global mindset it is much more responsible for us to keep the coal here than contribute to China's affect on global pollution.
@RGM -- Have pity on Dcast. He doesn't merely "look like" a fool... he's an adult forever doomed to ride the short bus.
just hunted mule deer there last August. It's too bad there doing this, but we have an energy addiction to feed.
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You guys are still all talking about fossil fuels. If we want to get serious about moving away from that and have a endless supply of clean enery we really need to look at and begin investing in bio-fuels and especially hydrogen fuel cell. The technogly is there to potential eleminate large power grids. No more outages, no more hydro-electric plants, rivers will run free, the air will be far cleaner. I mean everything could run on a fuel cell, cars, trucks, large equipment, semi's, even our own houses could be fueld by hydrogen. And the only "pollutant" would be water. I'm not saying we will ever get completely away from fossil fuels. And this could really all happen in the next 10-15 years. Just take the chains of the industry and let the free market run with it.
Not quite, $48 billion was privately invested in clean tech in 2011.
i always get a kick out of the people talking about having to feed their family. i ask you this: how many things have you bough in life and used once or twice and is now collecting dust somewhere? people in this country waste a ton of money, and a lot of it is on things they dont even need or use
RealGood,
Thank you for proving my point. China is doing a bad job of managing their pollution. It doesn't affect us too much in the short term, but it obviously has a major global impact over time. That is why I would personally prefer to keep our coal here and manage our emissions as good as we can environmentally as well as financially, there has to be a balance. And solar and wind are pretty much dead until our technology gets better. It just comes with too much cost with too little product. So far it has survived solely off of government grants and stimulus. It will be a day to remember when we can rely on solar or wind power, but we're not even close. It's an industry that can't even break even, let alone be self sustaining.
You said it yourself, "the renewable energy industry generates more jobs per MWA than fossil fuel." You think that's a good point for renewables but all I hear is "costs more" more jobs per MWA equals more money per. But we won't even get into that because like usual "your type" throws around a bunch of hypothetical statistics and tries to sell it as fact. Coal, oil, and gas have been staple industries for a long long time. Thousands and thousands of men have supported their families with these jobs and are proud to do so. You could almost say that these kinds of people are the ones paying the taxes that support the solar and wind energy fields. And that's a fact Jack.
Ricky, Quit trying to argue with RGM his world only exists in his own mind! He is an "NEE" (Narcissistic extreme enviromentalist) that more than likely benefits finacially from the industry. His internet name and posts prove it. I can't prove it but I think Bob Marshall and RGM is the same person if not they are two scary people. But I'm sure he thinks the same about you and I because we have had the exact same exhange previously. Anyhow there is no way to have a rational conversation with facts with him, and Bob just posts this crap without facts to back his propaganda up, if you do not believe me go back and read his articles! You did what you needed too so before beating your head against a wall walk away. I've been there and done that!
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