


August 01, 2011
Evironmental Groups: Some PA Forest Land Leases for Gas Drilling May Be Illegal
--Chad Love
The Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources is leasing more state forest land for gas drilling to make up for budget cuts, but environmental groups say some of those leases may be illegal.

From this story in the Pocono Record:
Despite a $27.2 million, or 33 percent, cut in state funding this year, DCNR's overall budget increased from $282 million to $284 million. The increase was made possible by $65 million from the Oil and Gas Lease Fund, which is up from $35 million last year. The fund was created in 1955 to maintain revenue from DCNR's leases with natural gas drilling companies for portions of the state's 2.1 million acres of forests. Thanks to a surge in revenue from the leases, the state has cut funding to DCNR, which has been trimming its budget. Among the cost-saving efforts are shortening camping and swimming seasons, closing some restrooms and improving maintenance. However, department spokesman Terry Brady said there will be "no state park closures." But, some natural gas drilling leases may violate a federal law requiring that land purchased with federal funds must be available for public use, according to the Pennsylvania chapter of the Sierra Club. Since natural gas drilling requires closing at least a portion of the land to build gas wells, the public does not have full access, the club argues.
"...The first Marcellus shale lease on state forest lands occurred in 2008 and spanned more than 74,023 acres, generating $163 million, said Brady. Subsequent Marcellus leases have yielded $250 million for nearly 65,000 acres. However, the public is "losing thousands of acres of public land "» to the (natural gas) drilling industry," said Jeff Schmidt, director of the Pennsylvania chapter of the Sierra Club. "The public is not being compensated." Because natural gas drilling frequently makes land unusable for the public due to the construction and operation of gas wells and access roads, an equal amount of leased land must be opened up through a process called conversion. For example, if 100 acres is purchased through federal funds, 100 acres must be made available somewhere else for public use, Schmidt said. The Sierra Club said DCNR is not properly documenting whether those lands being used for natural gas drilling were paid for with federal funds. In addition, the environmental group said DCNR is improperly allocating money from the Oil and Gas Lease Fund for salaries and operating costs, not conservation efforts as required under law.
Thoughts?
Comments (28)
i live in pa and i know this drilling has been bothersome to me a friend of mine lost his lease he has had for 15 years because of drilling its a shame but a farm i hunted on had a lease for drilling they came and went in 2 years and i still see tons of deer there im not to worried about it
The sierra club complaining about humans utilizing natural resources, what a surprise.
^^^^^^for a while people said the same thing about environmental groups challenging deep sea drilling
Extracting the gas isn't really to be debated... it's already being done. DCNR is mandated by the state's constitution to:
"Article I, section 27 of the Pennsylvania Constitution provides as follows:
Sec. 27. Natural Resources and the Public Estate
The people have a right to clean air, pure water, and to the preservation of the natural, scenic, historic and esthetic values of the environment. Pennsylvania's public natural resources are the common property of all the people, including generations yet to come. As trustee of these resources, the Commonwealth shall conserve and maintain them for the benefit of all the people."
Instead of just land owner's reaping the lease $$$, the state's 12.5 million people are entitled to reap something as well. I want a pound of flesh, balanced state budgets, and responsible regulation to protect the land. Not to much to ask for what is potentially this country largest NG resource, is it??
Yeh, real bothersome to have the St of Pennsylvania raking in tax revenue/royalties when states are going Bankrupt in this pathetic economy created by the folks this environmental group supports.
And deep sea drilling was forced out into the deep sea rather than extracting needed oil in shallower water.
On a micro-level, seems like a short-term inconvenience on the way to a long-term gain...sure, drilling rigs are ugly for a brief period. However, you end up with increased edge habitat and an economic gain. Win-win.
I always get upset when i see these articles anymore. I live in Bradford County, Pa. It is the heart of the NG drilling industry at the moment. If you lived here you would realize everyone here is fed up with the Gas companies. Everyone is trying to make a buck, and they do it any way they can. Yes the economy is stable here, but at the same time, 8 out 10 of the guys working are from Texas, Mississippi, or Oklahoma. As for the regrowth of new habitat? It will take twenty years. The gas company runs through the land with so many trucks it is compacted into hard dusty roads. If the DCNR gave a vote to the public on raising the price of a deer tag over leasing a 100 acres of public hunting lands I would gladly pay the extra couple dollars.
Mountain...GROW the economy and have an energy plan that will enable it to grow, and not this stupid green energy plan, or programs that need funding, and the economy are down the tube just like it is now.
"complaining about humans utilizing natural resources, what a surprise"
The gas companies are using the land and keeping out the humans that live there. If you don't have a problem with that, move to China along with all the jobs.
"DCNR is improperly allocating money from the Oil and Gas Lease Fund for salaries and operating costs, not conservation efforts as required under law"
Also unacceptable. The whole point is to more than make up for the damage/land restriction being done. If the money isn't going strictly to conservation, this isn't getting done.
mountaindew: spot on. employment for all out state folk. booooo.
shane: good points, but there's a lot of money to go around if we are to believe Gov. Corbett's shale commission "report." the problem is that the report is really a "story" about how plentiful the gas done by gas insiders and not a 3rd party.
My family lives in Lycoming county Pa, deep in the woods. I also lived up there for years. The gas companies are destroying the land and creeks. It's a shame. Thats just the environmental toll. I'm not even touching the fact they destroy the roads, cause countless amounts of accidents on small mountain roads with tanker trucks driving to fast, or how ridiculous the "Rough Necks" act at my families hotel and inn. I say tax them and get them out as soon as possible.
this thing is a disaster, no matter how you look at it! can't wait for it to make it into new york!
this map will give you a sense of how many permits have been issued and wells drilled as of June 2011:
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/oilgas/photogallery/photo...
My families deer camp is in N.central Pa. in the heart of this. It is troublesome to think of the damage to the streams especially some of those that are still struggling to recover from the coal/strip mining damage from the past. Streams i fished as a kid are now dead. Last month when i was up i worried about the Spring-water. We have always filled jugs at a community roadside spring to have drinking water at camp. Our well water is not potable due to fecal runoff from outhouses and nearby septic, etc. This year i couldn't help but worry what kind of "fracking" chemicals i was drinking, not to mention my kids. The increased truck traffic was more than an annoyance, quite a hazard actually. We still saw plenty of wildlife, as the deer and bears are quite adaptive, but it's the unseen that worries me, and the fact that the Energy companies aren't paying as much tax or revenue sharing as one might expect.
Pa was the home of the oil industry and the most polluted state in the union circa 1851-1920s. Today you wouldn't know it. google pictures from the Pa oil boom of the early days of the oil boom. The fishing and hunting that you are so proud of is a testiment to the environmental recovery that is possible. Stop believing the bogus big green propagada.
labrador, recovery takes generations
Don't get me wrong, i think it's great that we have this resource and can utilize it. It is a much needed boost for the economy in the area. I just hope it can be done in a more responsible manner than in the past and that the huge Energy companies with huge lobbies and profits don't leave a wasteland behind.
Steve
I hear you. This is a technical problem. We can do this. We need to be able to utilize our resources. fear mongering by big green groups mobilizes the ignorant urban electorate. We need jobs for people that don't mind getting their hands dirty. The people that think food comes from grocery stores are the people that believe environmental organizations propaganda. If we can't develop our resources our economy is going to be toast. We spend billions on Gov environment Depts. If they can't do their jobs insuring gas drilling safety, why are we paying for them?
in this case, I would ask if the green-folk even matter? all of it is underway. Gov. Corbett has proven he is not here to make friends. Unfortunately, the jury is still out for me on whether or not he works for The People or Big Industry. Since he signed a tough budget with cuts to a lot of things and did NOT create an extraction tax on NG, it would appear at this point he works for Industry.
Let's just hope the safeguards are in place. The people who live with it day-to-day in their backyards don't appear to be too happy... and those might even be some of the same people being paid to lease their land.
I'm serious about Federal and state agencies that are supposed to insure the safety of the environment. They are too administratively top heavy. As long as the paperwork is filled out correctly, and the proper fees are paid, the projects go forward. I want the money spent on enginering and failsafes instead. I want field people doing inspections, not bureucrats dreaming up ways to clean up pollution that is already 96.00076% cleaner that it was 20 years ago. The EPA and the Energy Dept could be deep sixed tomorrow and we could save hundreds of billions of dollars. The environment wouldn't be harmed and we would be paying several thousand less blowhards.
Don't buy the green propaganda! Facts: PA has 9 million acres of farmland, 1.4 million acres of State Game lands and almost 300,000 acres of State Parks (not including US Parks and RAs). I have a rental property in Clearfield County and we are thrilled to have job creation there for the first time in decades. The Sierra Club's bread is buttered by a handful of rich, ultra liberal Manhattanites and left coasters. They are extremely anti-hunting and don't care about real people who need jobs.
Why did my post get eliminated? What I posted is it sounds like the liberal notion that we luv being just like our European friends. I have no interest in being like our European friends.
Great post aferraro, and how appropriate a post in today's terrible economy, and the need to get rid of the environmental terrorism that is destroying our economy.
Sayfu..I know why it was eliminated...it was not! I was on the wrong topic! The EPA needs to be schitcanned IMO. There obstructionism for a responsible energy policy has been the biggest, damaging factor in creating this miserable economy we are in. Now obama is trying to circumvent congress, and allow the EPA to impose a carbon tax on industry that would be the crowning blow to our deteriorating economy. Then all environmental programs get trashed going unfunded.
"Streams i fished as a kid are now dead. Last month when i was up i worried about the Spring-water. We have always filled jugs at a community roadside spring to have drinking water at camp. Our well water is not potable due to fecal runoff from outhouses and nearby septic, etc. This year i couldn't help but worry what kind of "fracking" chemicals i was drinking, not to mention my kids."
So what of all that? Who cares? Create a few jobs for out of staters and that makes this OK?
The point is that we can still create those jobs without wrecking the watershed and poisoning people.
But hey, if there's a profit at hand, forget it.
"Richard Denison, senior scientist with the Environmental Defense Fund, said the ultimate goal is to encourage the industry to act responsibly.
"We think having information available for both the government and the public will provide a good incentive to the industry to ensure their practices are safe and that it is trying to use the safest chemicals in these processes," he said."
http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/gas-drilling/epa-asked-to-test-drilling...
It blows my mind on how this wasn't done first.
I have been directly involved with the gas drilling through friends and family,they are spending millions of dollars a day in pa,food,fuel,lodging,tools,trucks ect. they are employing people on the rigs from pa,I know at least 20 people myself that are from pa that work on the rigs.Also they are making the economy grow,there are 15 people that work at fluids in clearfiel if it wasnt for the gas companies fluids would exist and those people wouldnt have jobs at least jobs they can support a family on.One guy on here was pottymouthing how the roughnecks acted at his inn and resturant,ok then kick them out you dont have to rent to them,why do you,you need the money to survive.what about the truck drivers delivering supplies and water,most of those jobs were created by the gas companies,and your complaining about the way they drive,they are your neighbors go yell at them.From what I know most of the chemicals they are using are safe and as far al land regeneration the 2 wells they drilled last year by my camp are already panted and growing and they will be great places to hunt.If it wasnt for the wells there would be a lot of people in pawithout jobs,not being able to pay there mortgages,and feed there families and a lot of smaller bussnesses closed down.I can imagine that most of you people doing the boo hooing are not getting any money in your pockets from wells,I am not either,but the gas componies gave a lot of my friends and family jobs,for that I am thankfull
Sorry for the spelling on the last post.Also our DEP is harder on the gas companies than any other state they drill in.
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I always get upset when i see these articles anymore. I live in Bradford County, Pa. It is the heart of the NG drilling industry at the moment. If you lived here you would realize everyone here is fed up with the Gas companies. Everyone is trying to make a buck, and they do it any way they can. Yes the economy is stable here, but at the same time, 8 out 10 of the guys working are from Texas, Mississippi, or Oklahoma. As for the regrowth of new habitat? It will take twenty years. The gas company runs through the land with so many trucks it is compacted into hard dusty roads. If the DCNR gave a vote to the public on raising the price of a deer tag over leasing a 100 acres of public hunting lands I would gladly pay the extra couple dollars.
Extracting the gas isn't really to be debated... it's already being done. DCNR is mandated by the state's constitution to:
"Article I, section 27 of the Pennsylvania Constitution provides as follows:
Sec. 27. Natural Resources and the Public Estate
The people have a right to clean air, pure water, and to the preservation of the natural, scenic, historic and esthetic values of the environment. Pennsylvania's public natural resources are the common property of all the people, including generations yet to come. As trustee of these resources, the Commonwealth shall conserve and maintain them for the benefit of all the people."
Instead of just land owner's reaping the lease $$$, the state's 12.5 million people are entitled to reap something as well. I want a pound of flesh, balanced state budgets, and responsible regulation to protect the land. Not to much to ask for what is potentially this country largest NG resource, is it??
My family lives in Lycoming county Pa, deep in the woods. I also lived up there for years. The gas companies are destroying the land and creeks. It's a shame. Thats just the environmental toll. I'm not even touching the fact they destroy the roads, cause countless amounts of accidents on small mountain roads with tanker trucks driving to fast, or how ridiculous the "Rough Necks" act at my families hotel and inn. I say tax them and get them out as soon as possible.
i live in pa and i know this drilling has been bothersome to me a friend of mine lost his lease he has had for 15 years because of drilling its a shame but a farm i hunted on had a lease for drilling they came and went in 2 years and i still see tons of deer there im not to worried about it
The sierra club complaining about humans utilizing natural resources, what a surprise.
^^^^^^for a while people said the same thing about environmental groups challenging deep sea drilling
On a micro-level, seems like a short-term inconvenience on the way to a long-term gain...sure, drilling rigs are ugly for a brief period. However, you end up with increased edge habitat and an economic gain. Win-win.
labrador, recovery takes generations
"complaining about humans utilizing natural resources, what a surprise"
The gas companies are using the land and keeping out the humans that live there. If you don't have a problem with that, move to China along with all the jobs.
mountaindew: spot on. employment for all out state folk. booooo.
shane: good points, but there's a lot of money to go around if we are to believe Gov. Corbett's shale commission "report." the problem is that the report is really a "story" about how plentiful the gas done by gas insiders and not a 3rd party.
this thing is a disaster, no matter how you look at it! can't wait for it to make it into new york!
My families deer camp is in N.central Pa. in the heart of this. It is troublesome to think of the damage to the streams especially some of those that are still struggling to recover from the coal/strip mining damage from the past. Streams i fished as a kid are now dead. Last month when i was up i worried about the Spring-water. We have always filled jugs at a community roadside spring to have drinking water at camp. Our well water is not potable due to fecal runoff from outhouses and nearby septic, etc. This year i couldn't help but worry what kind of "fracking" chemicals i was drinking, not to mention my kids. The increased truck traffic was more than an annoyance, quite a hazard actually. We still saw plenty of wildlife, as the deer and bears are quite adaptive, but it's the unseen that worries me, and the fact that the Energy companies aren't paying as much tax or revenue sharing as one might expect.
Don't get me wrong, i think it's great that we have this resource and can utilize it. It is a much needed boost for the economy in the area. I just hope it can be done in a more responsible manner than in the past and that the huge Energy companies with huge lobbies and profits don't leave a wasteland behind.
in this case, I would ask if the green-folk even matter? all of it is underway. Gov. Corbett has proven he is not here to make friends. Unfortunately, the jury is still out for me on whether or not he works for The People or Big Industry. Since he signed a tough budget with cuts to a lot of things and did NOT create an extraction tax on NG, it would appear at this point he works for Industry.
Let's just hope the safeguards are in place. The people who live with it day-to-day in their backyards don't appear to be too happy... and those might even be some of the same people being paid to lease their land.
Don't buy the green propaganda! Facts: PA has 9 million acres of farmland, 1.4 million acres of State Game lands and almost 300,000 acres of State Parks (not including US Parks and RAs). I have a rental property in Clearfield County and we are thrilled to have job creation there for the first time in decades. The Sierra Club's bread is buttered by a handful of rich, ultra liberal Manhattanites and left coasters. They are extremely anti-hunting and don't care about real people who need jobs.
"Richard Denison, senior scientist with the Environmental Defense Fund, said the ultimate goal is to encourage the industry to act responsibly.
"We think having information available for both the government and the public will provide a good incentive to the industry to ensure their practices are safe and that it is trying to use the safest chemicals in these processes," he said."
http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/gas-drilling/epa-asked-to-test-drilling...
It blows my mind on how this wasn't done first.
"DCNR is improperly allocating money from the Oil and Gas Lease Fund for salaries and operating costs, not conservation efforts as required under law"
Also unacceptable. The whole point is to more than make up for the damage/land restriction being done. If the money isn't going strictly to conservation, this isn't getting done.
this map will give you a sense of how many permits have been issued and wells drilled as of June 2011:
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/minres/oilgas/photogallery/photo...
Steve
I hear you. This is a technical problem. We can do this. We need to be able to utilize our resources. fear mongering by big green groups mobilizes the ignorant urban electorate. We need jobs for people that don't mind getting their hands dirty. The people that think food comes from grocery stores are the people that believe environmental organizations propaganda. If we can't develop our resources our economy is going to be toast. We spend billions on Gov environment Depts. If they can't do their jobs insuring gas drilling safety, why are we paying for them?
"Streams i fished as a kid are now dead. Last month when i was up i worried about the Spring-water. We have always filled jugs at a community roadside spring to have drinking water at camp. Our well water is not potable due to fecal runoff from outhouses and nearby septic, etc. This year i couldn't help but worry what kind of "fracking" chemicals i was drinking, not to mention my kids."
So what of all that? Who cares? Create a few jobs for out of staters and that makes this OK?
The point is that we can still create those jobs without wrecking the watershed and poisoning people.
But hey, if there's a profit at hand, forget it.
I have been directly involved with the gas drilling through friends and family,they are spending millions of dollars a day in pa,food,fuel,lodging,tools,trucks ect. they are employing people on the rigs from pa,I know at least 20 people myself that are from pa that work on the rigs.Also they are making the economy grow,there are 15 people that work at fluids in clearfiel if it wasnt for the gas companies fluids would exist and those people wouldnt have jobs at least jobs they can support a family on.One guy on here was pottymouthing how the roughnecks acted at his inn and resturant,ok then kick them out you dont have to rent to them,why do you,you need the money to survive.what about the truck drivers delivering supplies and water,most of those jobs were created by the gas companies,and your complaining about the way they drive,they are your neighbors go yell at them.From what I know most of the chemicals they are using are safe and as far al land regeneration the 2 wells they drilled last year by my camp are already panted and growing and they will be great places to hunt.If it wasnt for the wells there would be a lot of people in pawithout jobs,not being able to pay there mortgages,and feed there families and a lot of smaller bussnesses closed down.I can imagine that most of you people doing the boo hooing are not getting any money in your pockets from wells,I am not either,but the gas componies gave a lot of my friends and family jobs,for that I am thankfull
Mountain...GROW the economy and have an energy plan that will enable it to grow, and not this stupid green energy plan, or programs that need funding, and the economy are down the tube just like it is now.
Pa was the home of the oil industry and the most polluted state in the union circa 1851-1920s. Today you wouldn't know it. google pictures from the Pa oil boom of the early days of the oil boom. The fishing and hunting that you are so proud of is a testiment to the environmental recovery that is possible. Stop believing the bogus big green propagada.
I'm serious about Federal and state agencies that are supposed to insure the safety of the environment. They are too administratively top heavy. As long as the paperwork is filled out correctly, and the proper fees are paid, the projects go forward. I want the money spent on enginering and failsafes instead. I want field people doing inspections, not bureucrats dreaming up ways to clean up pollution that is already 96.00076% cleaner that it was 20 years ago. The EPA and the Energy Dept could be deep sixed tomorrow and we could save hundreds of billions of dollars. The environment wouldn't be harmed and we would be paying several thousand less blowhards.
Sorry for the spelling on the last post.Also our DEP is harder on the gas companies than any other state they drill in.
Why did my post get eliminated? What I posted is it sounds like the liberal notion that we luv being just like our European friends. I have no interest in being like our European friends.
Great post aferraro, and how appropriate a post in today's terrible economy, and the need to get rid of the environmental terrorism that is destroying our economy.
Yeh, real bothersome to have the St of Pennsylvania raking in tax revenue/royalties when states are going Bankrupt in this pathetic economy created by the folks this environmental group supports.
And deep sea drilling was forced out into the deep sea rather than extracting needed oil in shallower water.
Sayfu..I know why it was eliminated...it was not! I was on the wrong topic! The EPA needs to be schitcanned IMO. There obstructionism for a responsible energy policy has been the biggest, damaging factor in creating this miserable economy we are in. Now obama is trying to circumvent congress, and allow the EPA to impose a carbon tax on industry that would be the crowning blow to our deteriorating economy. Then all environmental programs get trashed going unfunded.
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