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CA Bill to Ban Hunting Bears and Bobcats With Dogs Passes Senate

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May 22, 2012

CA Bill to Ban Hunting Bears and Bobcats With Dogs Passes Senate

By Chad Love

California is one step closer to banning hunting bears and bobcats with dogs after this bill passed the state senate yesterday. 

From this story on sfgate.com:
The state Senate voted Monday to ban the use of dogs to hunt bears and bobcats, a practice the bill's author compared with shooting animals in a zoo. State Sen. Ted Lieu, D-Torrance, introduced the legislation after a California fish and game commissioner posed for photos with a mountain lion he killed during a legal hound hunt in Idaho.

Before the vote, Lieu described the practice in which packs of dogs chase the animals until they are exhausted and climb trees, holding them until the hunter arrives. "It's been likened to shooting a bear at a zoo," Lieu said. "It's simply not fair." He also noted that dogs are sometimes injured or killed and called the practice inhumane and unsportsmanlike.

Thoughts? Reaction? Anyone want to place odds on the next low-hanging fruit anti-hunters try to grab are gundog field trials? Or even hunting with dogs altogether?

Comments (16)

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from olinger302 wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

So let me get this straight. They are perfectly ok with baiting bears but think it is inhumane to use dogs? I always thought using dogs was more fair because it gave the bear a chance to get away. But thats just my 2 cents.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from cotimundi wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

If We as Sportsmen as Hunters or Fisher-persons Do not take a stand.On All of this interference of Our Hunting
& Fishing rights, ALL will be lost. People Please wright & call/ e-mail all your Govt officals & demand they put a stop to this constant badgering. Please

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from FOX wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

I know people who run hounds for bobcat and coyote and they care more about their animals than most other owner I met so far. To say that they are cruel to their animals is outrageous. And to the sporting factor people have been using hounds for hunting for thousands of years it is probably safer than people run after the bears.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

Hunting with dogs hits a nerve with me. It is my opinion that it should be against the law for all big game hunting using dogs. The first reason being that you don't have to invest much time or effort into hunting skills. You set someone up in the right place and the dogs run the deer by and bam you shoot it. Pretty mindless and takes the skill out of it. Secondly, blood shoots out of my eyes every time hunting dogs run deer off my property to be shot by someone else. It's especially bad in Ms where I hunt. The dog culture down here is out of control. I have also missed many a deer because of barking hunting dogs spooking them. Hunters get into fist fights and shoot each other over dogs. It's just not worth it. Hunting with dogs should be limited to small game. I know all the dog lovers aren't going to like this post and will flag it but I don't give a rat's butt. I have little respect for them anyway.

-4 Good Comment? | | Report
from bruisedsausage wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

Captjim, Sounds like you're having issues other than what the majority of hounds are used for. That being said I don't think hounds have a place being used for hunting deer or other ungulates. We use them to hunt cougar here, which is about the only way you can reliably hunt large cats. I think that every sportsman that reads this article should contact his or her Govt representative and tell them to strike this down. Its nothing like shooting an animal in a zoo. First the animal has basically an unlimited arena in which it can use to thwart the dogs, and second chasing dogs for 5 or more miles in an outing is one hell of a workout.(Nothing like taking a stroll through the zoo) And in fact I would like to invite Ted Lieu to accompany us on a hunt, by the time the day is over I'm sure he will have re-evaluated his position on the matter. Lastly many of the animals that are treed get passed on.

Now, if this makes it through the gauntlet any one of us that use dogs for any purpose should be extremely worried, as banning dogs in many of our hunting avenues will be right around the corner... Suppose they would think its cruel to let my dog swim in waters to retrieve birds if the ambient air temp falls below 45. So even if you don't agree with using hounds for hunting, please see that if this makes it through, your bird dog will probably be the next to get the axe.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from hawndog wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

captjim, I would like to invite you to come hunting with me and a dog drive in Alabama. We will invest our time and effort, to set you in the right spot, if you have the skill to make the shot on a running deer.
I have never seen one of our dogs jump a deer on someone elses property, like you claim happened to you. If a dog leaves our property(which we try hard to prevent) it is because it jumped a deer on our property and ran it onto someone elses, for them to shoot. When this happens it is usually followed by a thankyou.
come give it a try, your opinion will be swayed.
tylersansing@yahoo.com

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

I understand what you are saying. I have no problems what so ever hunting with dogs if its sporting. I mostly have an issue with hunting deer because it's the lazy mans way of doing it and it affects other people.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

hawndog, thanks for the offer but I have to decline. I enjoy the months of spending time in the woods scouting and patterning to figure out what deer is going to be where at a particular time. If I shot a deer because a dog ran it by I would feel like I cheated on a test. Last year at least twice I had dogs sniffing the tree under my stand while I was hunting. It really gets in your crawl after spending thousands of dollars to buy hunting land, build a cabin, cultivate the property, take time off to hunt, and then 30min after sunrise on opening day a dog wanders up. I have had deer in my scope when dogs have spooked it. I also would not want to shoot at a running deer and take the chance of wounding it. If I can't get a clean shot I'd rather not take it. The big problem we have in MS is Mississippians. They don't give a cr@p about anyone else when it comes to running their dogs.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

And the next thing they will want to ban is the use of retrievers when waterfowl hunting and pointers while upland hunting. See the pattern?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from hawndog wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

When I am feeling lazy, I go find a stand to sit in. When someone describes dog hunting as lazy, it shows thier ignorance on the topic.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ORbowhunter wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

Good luck to sportsmen in CA if this passes. Here in Oregon our "wonderful" ODFW department has tried to do all they can to protect the predators. The use of dogs for cougar/bear was long ago banned and suprise-suprise, the population has and is continuing to grow faster than sportsman can manage. Now along with an over abundance of cougars and bear we are now having wolves cross over into our state, and what is ODFW doing about it? Nothing, they are welcoming the wolves back in with open arms. All this at the expense of deer and elk populations.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

OK hawgdog educate me. What is it that you do the days or weeks before the day of a dog hunt other than feeding your dog. I'm listening.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from hawndog wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

Captjim, Thanks for keeping this discussion Civil. This can become a heated topic.
I assume you are referring to the “lazy” comments above.
There is nothing lazy about the people dog hunting. We do not simply dump our dogs and wait for them to run a deer as many believe.
We start by gathering in the morning to decide what area is to be hunted, who is standing, who is the drivers are. There is a lot of planning that goes into this. We try to target the area that bucks are bedding. The dogs are not just turned loose. I walk with them though the briars and swamps, to get them to hunt where I want them to hunt. I often walk several miles in a day, and am usually bleeding from the briars, and sweating from all of the walking. Standers need to be strategically placed where they are likely to run, paying special attention to the property lines, so they don’t get off our property, while at the same time being safe, and knowing where everybody is. Even with all of the planning, the dogs often get through our stand lines, when they do, they must be retrieved, as soon as possible. When the dogs are turned loose, you have to be prepared to stay as long as it takes to catch the dogs. With stalk hunting, you are free to go home or back to camp whenever you get ready. This is why I am amazed when people call this lazy hunting. Lazy hunting to me is sitting in a shooting house with a rifle, much easier.
I stalk/still hunt as well. I kill a lot more deer while stalk hunting than I do with the dogs. I go through all this trouble, because it is a lot harder; Therefore; to me a lot more fun. Killing a deer standing on a green field, does not have the same thrill as killing a deer that knows it is being hunted. Hunting for deer not waiting on them.

This is mostly what I was referring to in the comments above. But to better answer you question: There is a lot of prep before season starts. We plant crops in the spring for the health of the deer and as an attractant. Along with corn and protein pellets. We plant fields in the fall also; not just a few, but somewhere around 25 food plots ranging in size from 1/10 of an acre up to 1 1/2 acres. Next weekend will be another work day, we need to trim roads, fix mud hole, make shooting lanes, build new roads. Our roads are very important. We need them to be able to cut off the dogs and keep them on our property. As well as trails, for walk in stands, to cut off escape routes that are not accessible by road.
We set game cameras, look for sheds, and scout by foot, to find out where the bucks are hanging out, so we can target those areas. At least 10 days before season starts we have to make sure all of the feed is gone, shovel any left feed, into buckets as not to break the law. I’m sure most of this sounds familiar.
In addition to all of the things that stalk/still hunters do. Most of us have a separate hunting truck as not to tear up our rides that get us to work. Mine is an ‘86 Toyota. That needs maintenance as well. We do not break for lunch everything we need for the day needs to be loaded into the truck; Food, water, dog food, tracking collar, leashes, ammo, flashlight, shotgun and rifle, tools and spare parts for truck. As you noted we have to take care of the dogs year around, feeding, vet visits, flea tick prevention, pens, tracking collars, dog boxes, leashes.

As you can tell it is not a few days of prep but most of the year is spent in preparation.

I also own 133 acres that I use for still/stalk hunting. I do not run my dogs on this property, it is to small for me to be able to keep the dogs on my property; therefore I am also in a dog hunting club that is 3000 acres. It is a lot of work for me to keep this property maintained. so I do know what it takes for stalk hunting preparation, it is a lot, but in addition to all of that, I have to prepare for dog hunting as well. In summery dog hunting takes all of the prep that still/stalk hunting does, with the addition of a few more requirements.

Sure a person could just go turn some dogs loose, and hope for the best. Same as a person can hang a climber on property they have never been on before, and hope for success. However, preparation = success in stalk hunting as well as in dog hunting.

Sorry for the long post, I was asked a direct question that has a very long answer. And sorry for hijacking this blog, If you want to continue this debate/discussion, we should probably move to another message board.

Thanks for listening

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from hawndog wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

Back to the original topic: It amazes me that you would want other hunters banned in a state on the other side of the country, hunting game other than deer, because you had two dogs on your property last year. If you have neighbors that are disrespectful, that can be handled by local law enforcement. There are people like myself that try to do things right.
If the problem is Mississippians and not the method as you state, then go after the Mississippians.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

hawndog, no need to go anywhere. Nobody cares how much we write. This blog isn't exactly tearing up the internet if you know what I mean. Ha. I understand someone can put as much into dog hunting as they like and it sounds like you are doing it the right way with plenty of land to work with. I have absolutely no problems with that. If everybody did it your way there wouldn't be any problems but most dog hunters don't put near that much effort into it or worry much about their dogs bothering other hunters. At least not where I live. A big part of my problem is that I border hundreds of acres of National Forest so it's a free for all during dog season. The brush is so thick in MS that very few people will follow their dogs. They just dump them out and hope for the best. I have actually had trucks on my property looking for their dogs. The bottom line is dog hunters will invest various amounts of effort into their hunting and from my personal experiences it appears to be very little. We will just have to agree to disagree on the merits of it but I do wish you happy and safe hunting.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

I just reread my first post and I didn't make it clear that I was referring to deer hunting in MS. That's what was in my mind but I didn't write it like that. I know nothing about the merits of hunting cougars or bears etc. with dogs elsewere. My bad.

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Post a Comment

from bruisedsausage wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

Captjim, Sounds like you're having issues other than what the majority of hounds are used for. That being said I don't think hounds have a place being used for hunting deer or other ungulates. We use them to hunt cougar here, which is about the only way you can reliably hunt large cats. I think that every sportsman that reads this article should contact his or her Govt representative and tell them to strike this down. Its nothing like shooting an animal in a zoo. First the animal has basically an unlimited arena in which it can use to thwart the dogs, and second chasing dogs for 5 or more miles in an outing is one hell of a workout.(Nothing like taking a stroll through the zoo) And in fact I would like to invite Ted Lieu to accompany us on a hunt, by the time the day is over I'm sure he will have re-evaluated his position on the matter. Lastly many of the animals that are treed get passed on.

Now, if this makes it through the gauntlet any one of us that use dogs for any purpose should be extremely worried, as banning dogs in many of our hunting avenues will be right around the corner... Suppose they would think its cruel to let my dog swim in waters to retrieve birds if the ambient air temp falls below 45. So even if you don't agree with using hounds for hunting, please see that if this makes it through, your bird dog will probably be the next to get the axe.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from ORbowhunter wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

Good luck to sportsmen in CA if this passes. Here in Oregon our "wonderful" ODFW department has tried to do all they can to protect the predators. The use of dogs for cougar/bear was long ago banned and suprise-suprise, the population has and is continuing to grow faster than sportsman can manage. Now along with an over abundance of cougars and bear we are now having wolves cross over into our state, and what is ODFW doing about it? Nothing, they are welcoming the wolves back in with open arms. All this at the expense of deer and elk populations.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from olinger302 wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

So let me get this straight. They are perfectly ok with baiting bears but think it is inhumane to use dogs? I always thought using dogs was more fair because it gave the bear a chance to get away. But thats just my 2 cents.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from cotimundi wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

If We as Sportsmen as Hunters or Fisher-persons Do not take a stand.On All of this interference of Our Hunting
& Fishing rights, ALL will be lost. People Please wright & call/ e-mail all your Govt officals & demand they put a stop to this constant badgering. Please

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from FOX wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

I know people who run hounds for bobcat and coyote and they care more about their animals than most other owner I met so far. To say that they are cruel to their animals is outrageous. And to the sporting factor people have been using hounds for hunting for thousands of years it is probably safer than people run after the bears.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from hawndog wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

captjim, I would like to invite you to come hunting with me and a dog drive in Alabama. We will invest our time and effort, to set you in the right spot, if you have the skill to make the shot on a running deer.
I have never seen one of our dogs jump a deer on someone elses property, like you claim happened to you. If a dog leaves our property(which we try hard to prevent) it is because it jumped a deer on our property and ran it onto someone elses, for them to shoot. When this happens it is usually followed by a thankyou.
come give it a try, your opinion will be swayed.
tylersansing@yahoo.com

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

I understand what you are saying. I have no problems what so ever hunting with dogs if its sporting. I mostly have an issue with hunting deer because it's the lazy mans way of doing it and it affects other people.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

And the next thing they will want to ban is the use of retrievers when waterfowl hunting and pointers while upland hunting. See the pattern?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from hawndog wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

When I am feeling lazy, I go find a stand to sit in. When someone describes dog hunting as lazy, it shows thier ignorance on the topic.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from hawndog wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

Captjim, Thanks for keeping this discussion Civil. This can become a heated topic.
I assume you are referring to the “lazy” comments above.
There is nothing lazy about the people dog hunting. We do not simply dump our dogs and wait for them to run a deer as many believe.
We start by gathering in the morning to decide what area is to be hunted, who is standing, who is the drivers are. There is a lot of planning that goes into this. We try to target the area that bucks are bedding. The dogs are not just turned loose. I walk with them though the briars and swamps, to get them to hunt where I want them to hunt. I often walk several miles in a day, and am usually bleeding from the briars, and sweating from all of the walking. Standers need to be strategically placed where they are likely to run, paying special attention to the property lines, so they don’t get off our property, while at the same time being safe, and knowing where everybody is. Even with all of the planning, the dogs often get through our stand lines, when they do, they must be retrieved, as soon as possible. When the dogs are turned loose, you have to be prepared to stay as long as it takes to catch the dogs. With stalk hunting, you are free to go home or back to camp whenever you get ready. This is why I am amazed when people call this lazy hunting. Lazy hunting to me is sitting in a shooting house with a rifle, much easier.
I stalk/still hunt as well. I kill a lot more deer while stalk hunting than I do with the dogs. I go through all this trouble, because it is a lot harder; Therefore; to me a lot more fun. Killing a deer standing on a green field, does not have the same thrill as killing a deer that knows it is being hunted. Hunting for deer not waiting on them.

This is mostly what I was referring to in the comments above. But to better answer you question: There is a lot of prep before season starts. We plant crops in the spring for the health of the deer and as an attractant. Along with corn and protein pellets. We plant fields in the fall also; not just a few, but somewhere around 25 food plots ranging in size from 1/10 of an acre up to 1 1/2 acres. Next weekend will be another work day, we need to trim roads, fix mud hole, make shooting lanes, build new roads. Our roads are very important. We need them to be able to cut off the dogs and keep them on our property. As well as trails, for walk in stands, to cut off escape routes that are not accessible by road.
We set game cameras, look for sheds, and scout by foot, to find out where the bucks are hanging out, so we can target those areas. At least 10 days before season starts we have to make sure all of the feed is gone, shovel any left feed, into buckets as not to break the law. I’m sure most of this sounds familiar.
In addition to all of the things that stalk/still hunters do. Most of us have a separate hunting truck as not to tear up our rides that get us to work. Mine is an ‘86 Toyota. That needs maintenance as well. We do not break for lunch everything we need for the day needs to be loaded into the truck; Food, water, dog food, tracking collar, leashes, ammo, flashlight, shotgun and rifle, tools and spare parts for truck. As you noted we have to take care of the dogs year around, feeding, vet visits, flea tick prevention, pens, tracking collars, dog boxes, leashes.

As you can tell it is not a few days of prep but most of the year is spent in preparation.

I also own 133 acres that I use for still/stalk hunting. I do not run my dogs on this property, it is to small for me to be able to keep the dogs on my property; therefore I am also in a dog hunting club that is 3000 acres. It is a lot of work for me to keep this property maintained. so I do know what it takes for stalk hunting preparation, it is a lot, but in addition to all of that, I have to prepare for dog hunting as well. In summery dog hunting takes all of the prep that still/stalk hunting does, with the addition of a few more requirements.

Sure a person could just go turn some dogs loose, and hope for the best. Same as a person can hang a climber on property they have never been on before, and hope for success. However, preparation = success in stalk hunting as well as in dog hunting.

Sorry for the long post, I was asked a direct question that has a very long answer. And sorry for hijacking this blog, If you want to continue this debate/discussion, we should probably move to another message board.

Thanks for listening

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from hawndog wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

Back to the original topic: It amazes me that you would want other hunters banned in a state on the other side of the country, hunting game other than deer, because you had two dogs on your property last year. If you have neighbors that are disrespectful, that can be handled by local law enforcement. There are people like myself that try to do things right.
If the problem is Mississippians and not the method as you state, then go after the Mississippians.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

hawndog, thanks for the offer but I have to decline. I enjoy the months of spending time in the woods scouting and patterning to figure out what deer is going to be where at a particular time. If I shot a deer because a dog ran it by I would feel like I cheated on a test. Last year at least twice I had dogs sniffing the tree under my stand while I was hunting. It really gets in your crawl after spending thousands of dollars to buy hunting land, build a cabin, cultivate the property, take time off to hunt, and then 30min after sunrise on opening day a dog wanders up. I have had deer in my scope when dogs have spooked it. I also would not want to shoot at a running deer and take the chance of wounding it. If I can't get a clean shot I'd rather not take it. The big problem we have in MS is Mississippians. They don't give a cr@p about anyone else when it comes to running their dogs.

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from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

OK hawgdog educate me. What is it that you do the days or weeks before the day of a dog hunt other than feeding your dog. I'm listening.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

hawndog, no need to go anywhere. Nobody cares how much we write. This blog isn't exactly tearing up the internet if you know what I mean. Ha. I understand someone can put as much into dog hunting as they like and it sounds like you are doing it the right way with plenty of land to work with. I have absolutely no problems with that. If everybody did it your way there wouldn't be any problems but most dog hunters don't put near that much effort into it or worry much about their dogs bothering other hunters. At least not where I live. A big part of my problem is that I border hundreds of acres of National Forest so it's a free for all during dog season. The brush is so thick in MS that very few people will follow their dogs. They just dump them out and hope for the best. I have actually had trucks on my property looking for their dogs. The bottom line is dog hunters will invest various amounts of effort into their hunting and from my personal experiences it appears to be very little. We will just have to agree to disagree on the merits of it but I do wish you happy and safe hunting.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

I just reread my first post and I didn't make it clear that I was referring to deer hunting in MS. That's what was in my mind but I didn't write it like that. I know nothing about the merits of hunting cougars or bears etc. with dogs elsewere. My bad.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Captjim wrote 1 year 47 weeks ago

Hunting with dogs hits a nerve with me. It is my opinion that it should be against the law for all big game hunting using dogs. The first reason being that you don't have to invest much time or effort into hunting skills. You set someone up in the right place and the dogs run the deer by and bam you shoot it. Pretty mindless and takes the skill out of it. Secondly, blood shoots out of my eyes every time hunting dogs run deer off my property to be shot by someone else. It's especially bad in Ms where I hunt. The dog culture down here is out of control. I have also missed many a deer because of barking hunting dogs spooking them. Hunters get into fist fights and shoot each other over dogs. It's just not worth it. Hunting with dogs should be limited to small game. I know all the dog lovers aren't going to like this post and will flag it but I don't give a rat's butt. I have little respect for them anyway.

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