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Wolves vs Lion Hounds: Attacks Rising in Montana and Idaho

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April 30, 2013

Wolves vs Lion Hounds: Attacks Rising in Montana and Idaho

By Jeff Hull


This lion hound, named Sadie, was killed by wolves on a hunt near Libby, Montana on February 2. Left: Owner, Ryker Hittle, and his father, Todd, with Sadie and her last bobcat before the wolf attack. Photos courtesy of Phil Soucy.

On the morning of February 23, Hamilton, Montana, outfitter Tom Henderson and Dan Morris, one of his guides, were trudging north and downslope through a glade of ponderosa pines and Douglas fir trees. About 100 yards ahead of them they saw Morris’s bluetick hound Sadie baying up a tree. 

“At that point, it looked like we were going to kill a big tom lion,” Henderson said. 

Henderson and Morris walked down toward the treed lion. When they’d closed about half the distance, they saw seven wolves—five black and two grey—rush the tree from the west. Sadie was so intent on the treed cougar that she never noticed the wolves until one charged in, grabbed her by the neck and shook her for about five seconds.

“All we had with us was pistols,” Henderson said. “When you lion hunt seriously, sometimes a bottle of water is too much to have in your backpack, much less a scoped rifle.” 

Both men yelled and fired on the wolves. For a few moments, the wolves circled Sadie, who lay motionless in the snow. The wolves then broke off and ran northeast, dangerously close to where two trailing hounds --Henderson’s dogs -- were charging full-voiced toward them. Morris ran downhill to the tree and instantly realized Sadie was dead. Then he and Henderson ran to intercept his incoming hounds before the wolves could get to them. The lion escaped in the chaos. 

“In 20 years of lion hunting, I’ve never had an incident—and, especially in Idaho, I run in [areas frequented by] wolves all the time,” Henderson said. But Henderson’s misfortune is not a rare occurrence in Western Montana this year.

What's changed is the proliferation of wolves in the Northern Rockies. In 2002, Federal wildlife officials confirmed 292 wolves living in Montana.  Idaho had 263 known wolves and 69 were counted in Wyoming (not counting Yellowstone Park). Ten years later, Montana had 625 confirmed wolves, Idaho had 683 and Wyoming, outside of Yellowstone, had 277--an increase in the region of more than 1,000 wolves.  

Although nobody is keeping statistics on lion hound-wolf encounters it stands to reason that more wolves -- many of them pushing into new territories and habitats occupied by mountain lions -- will result in more such encounters. And while the death of a hunting dog is always tragic, these encounters could become the cause of a bigger problem. In all three states, hound hunting is the only widespread management tool for containing lion populations, which have been expanding in recent years. With more wolves in the woods some houndsmen are having second thoughts about exposing their dogs to the dangers of an attack. That means less pressure on lion populations. Add more lions on top of more wolves and you ratchet up the pressure on prey populations, including valuable big game species such as deer and elk.

Phil Soucy, another Montana houndsman from Libby, was hunting with five friends on February 2 when they cut very large cat tracks in a drainage where they had recently spotted wolf tracks. They snowmobiled a box around the drainage and saw where the wolves had left the area, so they loosed three hounds. Unbeknownst to them, either the wolves had doubled back or another group moved through. The next time they saw their dogs, they were looking at stiff carcasses in the snow. 

“We had with us a 14-year old boy who had a young dog that was a phenom, really coming into her own,” Soucy said. “His dog was killed. He loved that dog. It really made his eyes shine to have that dog. He’s still pretty broken up over it. Don’t know that he’ll ever hunt dogs again.” 

Soucy said the incident ended his lifelong interest in hunting with hounds. 

“I’m going to become a wolfer, try to trap wolves,” he said. “I don’t enjoy the stress I feel when my dogs are out there. You strive to breed a cold-nose dog that can follow two-day old track, and now you can’t do that because you don’t know where they’ll end up.” 

In another reported incident in January, wolves killed all three hounds Drew Zeiler and three of his friends were running on a hot cat track in the Ninemile Valley northwest of Missoula. 

Prime lion hunting season—January into early March—overlaps wolf breeding season. During those months, wolves fiercely defend their territories and females. Most of the interactions seem to occur when hounds have a lion treed, when the dogs are stationary and baying loudly. 

What's Being Done?
The incidents seem to be stacking up in Montana this year, and those are just reported attacks. Soucy said he knows of two hunters who have lost hounds this year and didn't bother to go public with their stories. Roland Deane, chairman of board for the Montana Houndsmen’s Association said that when, two years ago, wolves killed one of his dogs on a hunt, he called the local Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks (FWP) warden to report it. The warden, Deane said, never returned the call. 

Montana FWP spokesman Ron Aasheim confirmed that the department has no formal procedure for reporting wolf attacks on hounds. 

“We’re not keeping information on that,” Aasheim said. “The houndsmen are pretty much doing it themselves. I’m aware of some incidents, but that’s their business. The houndsmen know about this as a challenge, but I don’t know what an agency like ours would do about it.”

Aasheim also stated that, for all the talk of nervous houndsmen, lion harvests have increased dramatically in recent seasons and quotas have risen. As of the middle of March, Montana hunters had killed 530 lions in 2013—an increase of 200 cats over the full season five years ago. “As far as we can tell, lions are on an upswing,” Aasheim said. 

A recent FWP study in the Bitterroot Valley commissioned by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation indicates that, at least in that study area, mountain lions, not wolves, are exerting the greatest pressure on dwindling elk herds. If lion numbers continue increasing while lion hunters drop out or reduce their chases in the name of dog safety, Montana, Idaho and Wyoming could lose a crucial tool in keeping numbers in check. "Hunters are our primary management tool for all species," said Idaho Fish & Game spokesman Mike Keckler, "so if hunters and houndsmen are dropping out, you bet we're concerned. We don't want to see that happen." 

The problem extends into Idaho, as well, where wolves have killed both lion and bear hounds. There, Idaho Fish & Game officials refer houndsmen who lose dogs to Idaho’s branch of the federal Wildlife Services agency, who will simply confirm that, indeed, the death was caused by wolves but will not take further action (Montana’s Wildlife Services branch will become involved in the deaths of herding or livestock guard dogs, but not hunting dogs). 

Tim Hunt, Jr., vice president of the Idaho Houndsmen Association, said he knows of at least five incidents in recent years where hounds died at the fangs of wolves. Hunt had a near miss himself last year, when he loosed two hounds on a cat track about 10 miles outside of Boise. The dogs disappeared over a hill and the 35-year-old Hunt hiked after them. 

As he crested the hill, he saw his dogs at the base of a tree surrounded by a pack of six wolves. He fired his pistol just as a wolf rushed in and bit one of his dogs. The gunshots spooked the wolves into breaking off the attack and running. Hunt’s dog suffered only minor puncture wounds. 

Hunt said he, too, hears houndsmen talking about quitting rather than putting their dogs at risk. He thinks wildlife agencies in Idaho, Montana and other states inhabited by wolves should at least acknowledge the problem, document it and play a proactive part in seeking ways to minimize contact between hounds and wolves. 

So far solutions seem scant. Houndsmen have tried attaching bells to their dogs’ collars, but Henderson’s dogs wore bells to no avail. Idaho Fish & Game spokesman Keckler suggests that houndsmen try to "howl up a wolf before turning your dogs loose." People have suggested using flashing lights on the dogs’ collars, but there’s little evidence that it works. Cut vests and collars, like those worn by hog hounds in the South, might provide some protection, but, as Tim Hunt said, “If you look at the pictures of what wolves have done to those hounds, they’ll get the dogs no matter what.”

 

Comments (83)

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from nchunt101 wrote 50 weeks 3 days ago

SSS - best thing for a wolf

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 60256 wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

Montana FWP spokesman Ron Aasheim:

"The houndsmen know about this as a challenge, but I don’t know what an agency like ours would do about it."

Are you kidding me? You guys are the guys that are supposed to handle problems like this!!!

Nate

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from bruisedsausage wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

Just had one of "those" moments... Time to start calling in wolves using "Hound" calls. In Idaho its legal to use electronic calls to hunt wolves, and would probably work well. I personally know two different people that have lost hounds to wolves over the past three years. Seems like since they are so drawn to the sound of baying hounds that we ought to use that to hunt them? Marketing genius...

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

Wolves are hell on coyotes too. Might want to use a recording of coyote howling. I bet that would work. Sounds like a great new sport in the making. More fun than bringing in coyotes with rabbit calls.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from baconboy206 wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

domestic dogs get killed when they run around in the wolf habitat? Didnt see that one coming. In all seriousness though they should have seen this one coming a long ways off. These guys need to get in contact with lion guides up in BC who run hounds for cats in the winter in areas with large wolf populations. As long as these wolves get shot at enough like our wolves in my part of BC they should learn to stay away pretty quickly, they are smart animals.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from ITHACASXS wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

I'm just a city boy who loves hunting and the outdoors, but I believe that these hound men, providing they are not shackled with foolish regs, can and will figure out how to handle these wolves.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from beardo wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

If you're not willing to risk encountering wolves in wolf habitat, don't run your dogs there. You're the invader. Defend yourself and your dogs, but don't complain about something that should be expected to happen.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from DANelson wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

If you hunt with dogs be prepared for the possibility of having your dogs killed. Dogs are no match for most predators. It actually seems like animal cruelty to me for someone to subject their dogs to the possibility of being mauled or killed. Hunting birds with a good retriever is of course,another matter. When you think about it,how does putting your hounds up against a wolf pack,mountain lions or bears. differ from dog fighting? It seems like splitting hairs to me.

-4 Good Comment? | | Report
from berniedog wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

What about the concept of adding another dog to the mix. Something to add some security to the lion dogs like a pyrenees does with sheep. Seems like the lion dogs are most vulnerable when they are focused on a treed animal. If they had another dog keeping watch over "the pack", just long enough for the hunters to get there, maybe it would help.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from maddy wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

though this is very, very sad, you do have to know that it is something that does happen. i got a beagle that i intended to take hunting rabbits, but then i heard that sometimes cyotes (hate em') attack beagles on the run. so long storie short, stumpy is retierd earlier then planned.

but yeah, i'm very sorry and wish you the best of luck. i also have one little tip about the wofls: choot em'

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ranx wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

berniedog,

I once read about the use of Airedales in hunting packs some time in the past. They are the largest of the terriers - imagine a rat terrier blown up to full size. Of course, Irish Wolfhounds were bred for the purpose so having one of those in the bunch couldn't hurt. At 200 or so pounds and purpose bred for wolf hunting they ought to do the trick.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from lukeduke wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

That was a quite a loss. I bet Sadie was a great cat hound. She pushed that lion to tree and was way ahead of the other hounds. I believe females make the best hounds.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from OJYfamilia wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

Im just tired of losing "family members" aka "family dogs" and here I am having that problem here in washington state .... what next my kids? me? or my whole family? than is there going to be a concern ... that movie "THE GREY" is telling the truth .. you cant tame wild animals nor can you tell them what to do .. it is not like we are trying to save a whale or do some tree hugging ... these are killers

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Annette Krausse wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

"In all three states, hound hunting is the only widespread management tool for containing lion populations, which have been expanding in recent years." Is the author stating this as the reasoning behind hunting the lions in the first place? You'd think having another predator, such as wolf pacs, would help in the control of lion populations, as they all want the same food source. Before you know it, the cats will be gone in a particular area and then there'll be complaints of too many deer or rabbits.

-4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Misterranger wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

I just LOVE that this is making less people hunt. Hunting is cruel and unnecessary. You are the visitors in THEIR home. Don't be surprised that wildlife will defend itself. Wolves are super intelligent animals who love their lives and their families as much as we do. just because they cant tell you that by using words does not mean its not true. I do feel bad for the poor dog though. She had no idea that what she was doing could cost her life. The human that taught her that it was just a fun game was actually the one who killed her.

Who is the guy above who postulated he might now lose his kids and his whole family to wolves?. What a moron. If you want to be totally safe then go live in the burbs. Leave the wildlife ALONE!!!

-18 Good Comment? | | Report
from net1tek wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

Re: Just chootem. The wolves belong there and you don't. Enter their territory and suck it up if they act like a wolf. I'm wondering if the puma was thinking "just chootem" when it was being chased by a pack of yelpers.

-3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

My, look at all the one-post-wonders coming out of the woodwork! All thinking they should be able to remake nature into what they think it should be rather than what it has been for the last ten thousand years.

By the way, cougar is some of the finest wild game meat there is. About as close to chicken as you can get.

I agree, if you hunt the wild - and it is truly wild - then you gotta take your lumps. I knew there was a problem wolf in the area last year where I hunt geese with my dogs and sure enough he approached my deeks just at daybreak one morning. My dogs bristled and tipped me off but I kept them under control. I didn't shoot him 1) because he was too far away and I only had goose load shotgun and 2) NEVER, EVER shoot at anything around the dogs unless it's something they are supposed to be going after (learned that lesson the hard way last fall). Eventually the farmer shot the poor mangy bugger when it got in the hay barn and refused to leave.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Misterranger wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

One more comment.... why don't all you guys who use dogs to do your hunting for you just bring out your reclining chairs while you are out there? You can rest and relax, put your feet up while your dogs do all the work. It doesn't even strike me as "hunting" to bring dogs along. You let them sniff out the quarry, run it until it's exhausted, chase it up a tree and keep it there until you mosey up and blast its guts out at point blank range. That seems pretty wimpy and unfair. Hunting by remote control is a bit more accurate. Then when nature strikes back you cry to the government to to stack the odds even more in your favor. That disgusts me. You should be ashamed.

-13 Good Comment? | | Report
from bruisedsausage wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

MisterCringer,

I imagine you must be a yogurt faced, granola eating hippie. You also have absolutely no concept of how arduous lion hunting is. FWIW wolves are in OUR home, not us in theirs. So grab a stick of celery, hug a bunny, and start educating yourself.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Charlie Little Bear wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

I agree with bruisesausage. Mistercringer doesnt have a clue what he\she is talking about. When the first child is killed and eaten by wolves , then you will see a lot of people changing their attitudes about wolves. meanwhile, I say shoot as many as we can or they will continue to multiply and decimate game populations across the US as they already have in parts of Montana....or we could just livetrap them and ship them to the city where mister cringer lives. I bet wolves like to eat lapdogs and house cats too. I use to hunt with dogs for yeas, and I loved everyone of them. They were doing what their instincts told them to do and they loved doing it. I feel sorry for the houndsmen as well as their dogs, and I plan to do everything I can to prevent it from happening in my area.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

you hunters are stupid misinformed inbred. The wolves harvest and keep the elk, deer, and moose in check ALL YEAR ROUND. That means a lot of harvested animals for the wolves to eat along with many other wild animals that eat the wolves leftovers. If you don't want your mutts killed by wolves, stop using them to pursue wildlife. The wolves will give any hunting dog a dirtnap. That's nature. the wolves are the top apex predator and they will continue harvesting elk, deer, and moose all year round. accept reality.

-6 Good Comment? | | Report
from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

you are in the wolf's backyard. not the other way around. just accept that there are risks involved when letting your hunting mutts pursue wildlife. If the wolves see any hunting dog, they will give that dog a dirtnap. those hunting dogs don't belong in the wild. the wolves do.

-2 Good Comment? | | Report
from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

you hunters love killing nature, but when nature kills your hunting dog, you throw a hissy fit. hypocrites.

-2 Good Comment? | | Report
from CyCurtis152 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Nota33 and misterranger please take your anti hunting rhetoric elsewhere. We conservationists don't care to hear your opinions about things you do not understand. Nota33 according to you the wolves are at the top of the food chain and when they kill for any reason (and yes wolves sometimes kill just to kill) it is fine. Yet when a man kills (and according to you man is not at the top of the food chain wolves are) for food or any other reason he is a hypocrite for doing so. Pathetic. Please by all means go out and congratulate the wolves for killing that young mans dog. According to you guys they will understand your approval. Also if you truly are what you eat I am sure they will enjoy a good vegan meal. Hope you don't twist your ankle when you walk off the paved streets your used to.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Filson wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

First off, my thoughts and prayers for a wonderful dog/pet who died in the chase. She was not ours so we can't claim to put a value on how she contributed to the family. I'm sure that young man had a special spot near his heart and bed for her. Now I'm a Michigan man, we have bears, and cougars, but I'm going to reference the upper Peninsula for this post. In 2010 a guy was running dogs after a bear, said dogs were mauled by wolves. As a man I couldn't imagine finding my dogs dead in the woods, as well he couldn't. He called MDNR(deercops) when they returned to the scene the wolves had come back to feed on his dogs some more. How would you feel? Ok, those of you who say, why are you in their woods? The answer is because we can hunt there. So the question is how do we protect our dogs from wolves, well MDNR, and I'm sure many other states like Mitten say, don't run dogs on bears in wolf territory. Haaha...Ok, 1 not good, 2, time to game up. A wolf runs around a hundred pounds, so lets put a pack at 5, the Isle Royale wolf study would put the pack smaller, but let's just go the left way. I have a lead dog, great dane mix, you know, huge bait dog, the kind they use on 400#hogs, followed up by a hound, sounds like wolf food right? But wait, did you know one of the most trainable dogs is......a dog trained for.....what it's bread for...Fighting, not saying they're great with house pets(cats, woodchucks, ect), but the last coyote that hit my farm got smoked without a shot, and when we went north, I wasn't worried. 6 pits, one lead dane, and a tracker, "wolves" "they gone" Not to sound like a white trash HillBilly, but when my dogs have kevlar vests and collars, and a wolf comes up, I bring a pack to meet a pack. Besides I'm hoping to find a 500# bear duh! I want them to come home safe. Wolves are just a new part of the prob. BTW, not that much of one either. Again, I'm sorry about Saddie, that must be a tough loss, but last August when the wolves tried to get duke, well...he wasn't running alone. If you're gonna go in, go deep, and go prepared. Love a Dane for a lead, love some pits for the clean up. BTW, I do not, nor have I ever condoned dog violence! For a good protective dog gear go to Blockydogz.com FyI 6 pits, 1 Dane, and a hound beats 9 wolves. Got some skulls to prove.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from circle8 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

A good wolf is a dead wolf.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from ITHACASXS wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Hey Nota33, guess what? It's MY backyard too, from sea to shining sea. Wherever I go, if it's not private, or off limits for some great reason, it's for me and my fellow citizens to hunt, fish, smell the flowers, sleep under the stars play the guitar or some other noble pursuit. If wolfie, his cousins or any other fellow carnivore gives me or my friends a hard time, it's good night to them. Don't worry, I don't provoke, but I'm not taking any business from them or you.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Pray- hunt-work wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Dear Sister Ranger and Nota- If you sleep better at night because you protested online about your anti-hunting beliefs then feel free. Truth be told, you have no idea what you speak of, your credibilty is lacking big time. I as a houndsman and hunter are a much better conservationist than you will ever be. My money spent pursuing game largely goes to conservation efforts, I.E. habitat structure and support, land management, research studies, and population data. Part of conservation is keeping populations in check, which I will wholeheartedly continue to do, while you needlessly blog away on our website for your own reasons. You, in my eyes, are a huge stumbling block to the greatest group of conservationist on this earth, The Hunter.

P.S.- if you would care to walk my hounds in the woods sometime, we will keep them on a lead, and "mosey" on through the woods. Sometimes eight miles as the crow flies, with 15 lbs of gear, and see if you have what it takes. Also, thank you for inventing granola, it is a great energy booster and often enables me to treck across large tracks of beautiful and rugged terrain to make the harvesting kill shot.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from rock rat wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Too bad about the dogs and I hope things work out better in the future. Dogs and traps do more for wildlife conservation than many realize.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

a good wolf is a dead one? and you wonder why people hate you hunters. You hunters are wildlife haters and wildlife killers. inbreds.

-5 Good Comment? | | Report
from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

pray you're not a conservationst. You're a destroyer of wildlife. people like you are anti-wildlife, not the other way around.

-9 Good Comment? | | Report
from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

part of conservation is keeping animals in check. yeah, then wolves are the best conservationist around as they keep the elk, deer, and moose in check all year round.

-4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Flyer wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

This recent developement of to many wolves in Michigan is why I don't hunt birds in the UP. Now the idiots want wolves in the lower peninsula. My dogs are pets and hunters. I'll hunt without them before I'll risk their lives because some tree hugger in the East or suburbia wants to save their Disney fantasy of what wild animals do with their free time. Better yet let's give some to NY City for central park and DC for the Capital parks. By the way, maybe they should watch a pack in Yellowstone tear apart an elk calf or buffalo. Perhaps the American Human Society only cares about wolves and not pets. In Michigan they are paying for TV ads encouraging people to fight wolf and song bird (doves) hunting in Michigan.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from hutter wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Don't respond to the nons. They only want to make you angry,and if you say something in anger they will let the D.H.S. know about you. In the D.H.S. eyes this could be construde as DOMESTIC VIOLENCE and they will come get your stuff. I have read elsewhere about this.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from William W Simon wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

I think this is a perfect time to set a beying dog decoy out and with an electric caller you can bring the killer wolves in and eliminate the ones that are killing your dogs. After a while they will stay away from your hounds . People dont realize how much you have invested in your dogs time and money not to say some are loved like one of your kids.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

The only different between you two animal rights protesters is we hunt and eat our own meat from the game animals we shoot during hunting season. You two tree huggers go to a food store for your meat from animal killed in a slaughter house. The wild animals we hunt had a chance to live and die of old age. Your slaughter house animals are all dome to death and none live old age. How inhumane you bambi lover hypocrites are.

Don’t write back and say you are a vegetarian. We don’t believe it because your animal rights protesters have lied in the past! In December 2005 four from your animal right members were charged for harassing hunters in New Jersey during bear season. All four swore on the Bible and lied to the entire courtroom under oath. A NJ state trooper was an eye witness with two other hunters during the harassing sting operation and your members lied one at a time to everyone in the courtroom. The Honorable Judge knew they were all lying and found them all guilty. They even were lying to God after swearing on the Bible one at a time up at the witness stand. I was there in the courtroom in person.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Well, nota, go see how letting wolves do all the checking by themselves has worked out for them at Isle Royale. Gees, the ranger dude should know all about this. But of course he won't want to hear about it because it doesn't fit in with his image of how he thinks nature should work. Wolves and moose are the main attraction out there. And they are both exotic species. Originally the island had caribou only. The miners who showed up after the middle of the 19th century eliminated the timber which eliminated the caribou. Some time in the early 19th century the moose showed up. It's still a matter of some debate how that happened. Consensus seems to be they were brought over in a mail boat. The moose overran the place and we suspect that the wolves on the mainland 25 miles away eventually smelled the rotting carcasses from starving moose and made the trek over on ice during a particularly cold year. Then the place became a National Park unit and we all know what their feeling is about hunting. But it never has been able to balance itself out there. The wolves eventually kill almost all the moose off and they then start to die off due to disease, etc. (as they are now doing). Then the moose population goes ballistic and they eat the ground cover down to the height of a golf green. Then they all die off. And these animals don't die a noble death. I'm quite sure if they had their preferences they'd take getting shot over starvation and disease. And before I leave this subject, the NPS mandate is to protect and preserve the natural environment and wildlife. Since the moose and wolves never were part of the natural environment to start with, perhaps they should ALL be eliminated and the caribou returned instead? Problem with that is too many visitors. They expect to see SOMETHING with fur on it and caribou are extremely reclusive. And the caribou would fair no better because they required that the native people come out to the island every spring and harvest some of them (and I know this for a fact because I translated some of the earliest missionary diaries for that country).

Taking the human element out of predation is anything but natural. We've been here doing it for too long. We've also created so much unnatural artificial environment that's unnaturally favorable for particular species (e.g. Isle Royale). Consequently, it is our obligation to manage their numbers, for the sake of the land and everything else that lives on it. Mother nature didn't till up the fields with gang plows or put developments and golf courses around all the waterways. How can we expect her to control the explosion of geese created by these artificial environments? We made the mess and we have to help keep it clean.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Hunting is a dirty business but if we humans as the top predator don't help do it, it gets a LOT dirtier.

And incidentally, humans have been hunting with dogs for as long as they have been domesticated. It's no doubt the reason they were domesticated. Not to sit on your lap or walk around a show ring.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

dogs don't belong in the wild. any dog that the wolves see. the wolves will give a dirtnap to that dog.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Misterranger wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

If hunting with dogs (and even without them) is sooo very arduous how come you are all overweight? Go Veg!!! The problem with people who are stupid is that they don't even know it.

-4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

I hunt hard behind my dogs. You wouldn't have a prayer of keeping up with us. I'm sixty years old and I regularly walk (not run!) three miles in thirty five minutes. I'm 6'1" and 180 lbs. Let's see if you're in that kind of shape when you're sixty! I routinely am on my feet from before dawn till after midnight when I'm hunting (it often takes hours after dusk to get back to my rig). You two don't have a clue what bird hunting behind dogs is about. It's hard work. But I love it ... mostly because it is hard work. A lot harder than washing the vegetables from the grocery store!

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

I have witness many animal rights protester picket lines in New Jersey during the black bear hunt. I didn't see any thin people picketing. They were mostly loud mouth heavy weight women. So much for your vegetable theory that keeps you all thin.

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

By the way, there were a few men there on the same picket line that were emasculated by the women into thinking killing a black bear is sick.

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from GENO wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

It's sad, but come on, you had to see it coming.

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from Misterranger wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Dear Ontario Honker. Those are fascinating points you've made. I swear, I could listen to you talk about how wonderful you are all day. Apparently in your 61 years of life you've not learned how to make a convincing argument or win people over to your side. You'd think you would be better at that by now. Don't feel bad though. It seems that very few people on this thread have those skills.
Oh and Gary Devine... I don't get the connection. What does fat people picketing in NJ have to do with how much effort it takes to follow your dogs while they run down a cat? (Or a bird).

Hunt with a camera instead. It's waaaay more challenging and no one gets hurt. It can be immensely profitable too.

BTW I bet all the guys mentioned in this story wasted the meat from those dogs. I don't see the difference between a dog and a bobcat or wolf. (Or cow or pig for that matter). They are all sentient and want to live. I think they deserve to.

BTW. For anyone interested... My resumé includes a degree in Environmental Studies, years as a back country park ranger for the NPS, scads of time spent in the back country woods enjoying myself. What's on your "nature resumés"?

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

I am retired from the US National Park Service. Also spent many years working for the US Forest Service. You may have more time in the backcountry than me but I really doubt it. My resume includes a real live PhD in history with a second BA in biology. If you had ANY experience in the Park Service you would know EXACTLY what my "argument" is re Isle Royale. You're just not comfortable with it so you ignore it (you'd make an excellent bureaucrat in the Ontario government!). Oh, and I forgot to mention how well letting nature handle the deer situation at Gettysburg worked out. Everyone can google for themselves and see what a terrible tragedy that turned out to be for the poor deer ... and everything else that tried to live in that park unit.

Life is about death. If you learned ANYTHING at all in your Environmental Studies course work (for all those courses are worth!) you would understand and appreciate that life in the "natural" environment is also about death. Unfortunately there is almost no place left on earth that is a "natural environment." Like it or not humans have altered and continue to alter every bit of land, air, or sea on the globe. It's silly to think we can simply leave nature to its own devices when humans are such an important ingredient both historically and, more than ever, today. Any environmental studies professor with any kind of grasp of reality would agree. Sometimes I wish the world was a place where human beings never evolved. Everything would probably be the better for it. But we did evolve and during that course we have shaped what it's become, for better or worse. To simply walk away at this point and abandon our historical role creates havoc (e.g. deer at Gettysburg and the mountain goats at Olympic NP). Only makes a bad situation worse.

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 23 hours ago

Misterranger, your second comment back brought up the weight issue not me. I will quote your own words below;

"If hunting with dogs (and even without them) is sooo very arduous how come you are all overweight? Go Veg!!!"

I translate your words as saying all sportsmen who hunt with dogs are overweight and we should eat veggies instead of meat.
I don't see the connection. What does being overweight and going Vegan have to do with dogs running down cougars or a wolf pack killing a hunting dog?

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 23 hours ago

BTW, I would believe an expert Fish and Game Department Wildlife Biologist who says there is a need for hunting cougars, wolves and bears over an alleged park ranger. The Intelligent Biologist carries more creditably by far.

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 23 hours ago

sorry, creditbility should be on the last line

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from Rick Shmonster wrote 50 weeks 22 hours ago

Boo Hoo, that's hunting , what did you expect , you go into the wilderness you better expect things like that , that's why it's call the untamed wild . Do you really think that cat expects dogs to tree him so humans can come and shoot him like a sitting duck ?
Hey Im not a hater , born in the bush and grew up in the bush and still live and hunt in the wild . That is just the cost of doing business .

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from Rick Shmonster wrote 50 weeks 22 hours ago

Boo Hoo, that's hunting , what did you expect , you go into the wilderness you better expect things like that , that's why it's call the untamed wild . Do you really think that cat expects dogs to tree him so humans can come and shoot him like a sitting duck ?
Hey Im not a hater , born in the bush and grew up in the bush and still live and hunt in the wild . That is just the cost of doing business .

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from wisc14 wrote 50 weeks 20 hours ago

to the anti-hunters suddenly on here. i hunt deer, wild turkey, ruffed grouse and catch fish to feed myself. just as my ancestors and the native cultures have done on this continent for it's entire existence. all living things are part of the food chain, i eat the deer just as the wolf does.

if any of you actually eat meat from a grocery store then please think of what a hypocrit you are. if you are a vegetarian, then i would like to sarcastically say thank you for largely supporting genetically modified roundup ready crops which are destroying this planet.

oh and by the way i like having wolves around. there isn't much like hearing the howl of a wolf in a wild place. i leave the wolves alone and they have left me alone. however if one ever does come at my black lab when i'm grouse hunting then the .357 will be lettin lead fly

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 19 hours ago

wis, the wolves will give your dog a dirtnap. The wolves are a superior apex predator to you. To those people whining when their hunting dogs is killed by wildlife, cry me a river. You want to chase wildlife with your dogs, but don't like it when the wildlife fights back. The majority of people view hound hunters are fat lazy cowards.

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from William W Simon wrote 50 weeks 18 hours ago

I wouldn't get too conserned with what misterranger says he or she probably wasn't a ranger or was kicked out because of attitude .He or She sounds like one of those professional college students living off government grants studying bugs.He or She might be the one that said why do you hunt why dont you get your meat at the grocery store where nothing gets killed.

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from wisc14 wrote 50 weeks 18 hours ago

nah nota, my .357 will give the wolf a good long dirtnap.
also you are clueless. if you can read you would see i don't hunt with hounds but with a birddog. a flushing dog that is always within sight of me

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from pastorm1 wrote 50 weeks 17 hours ago

I live in Western Kansas about 40 miles from the Colorado border. We are already seeing some migration of wildlife into our area that I assume are coming from Colorado. There are now some elk and mountain lions. I guess the farmers killed off the few antelope that tried to move in. I am concerned more about what will happen to livestock if wolves move into our area following the elk and mule deer. They would probably like to dine on a nice steer. Knowing some of the farmers around here they would probably make an effort to eradicate all wolves from our area. The wolves could hurt their livelihood.

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from berniedog wrote 50 weeks 7 hours ago

Wow! A lot of angry people on this thread. I imagine that to even be on the F&S website you have to be some type of outdoors man / nature lover. After all, most hunters I know are more in tune with nature then the hippies I know. And believe me, I know plenty of both.

Hunting with dogs is one of the most thrilling and zen like experiences you can have. Dogs were bread to perform specific tasks, be it a bird dog, or lion dog, but still. They spend the vast majority of their lives as a Family Dog. Any loss of family is horrible.

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 7 hours ago

ur delusional wic and u know that the wolves will give yourself a permanent dirtnap if they catch your mutt in their territory.

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 7 hours ago

will give your dog is what I meant to say.

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from wisc14 wrote 50 weeks 7 hours ago

i've been in northern wi. all my life and never had a problem with wolves nota so i'm not too worried.

and i highly doubt you could even tell the diffference between a wolf, a coyote, and a siberian husky

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from hawndog wrote 50 weeks 5 hours ago

To answer your question, my Resume' includes a degree in Environmental Science, 11 years working for the US Geological Survey, two hunting dogs, a shotgun a rifle and a four wheel drive.

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from poetwild wrote 50 weeks 5 hours ago

Totally agree with Ont. Honker and totally disagree with with Mister-ranger. That Environmental Sciences degree that MR touts as compelling expertise is really a political science degree with some extremely value-laden pretentiousness masquerading as biological fact. It certainly misses the role of humans in the natural world. The whole portrayal of humans by MR fails to acknowledge that we are biologically speaking omnivores who have survived by our ability to consume both animal flesh and vegetation. Therefore, to act as predators is part of our evolution. I don't think those highly sentient wolves feel sorry for the ungulates they kill to survive. Don't see them adopting a no-kill policy in empathy for other species. No reason they should.

A lot of judgmental, emotional bias (i.e., personal problems) evident in the characterizations of hunters and hunting by MR and his soul mate, the nasty and ill-informed nota33. For rejoinder, I'll keep hunting, fishing and living on my terms. Further, the bond between
human hunter and canine is one of those behavioral adaptions that has benefited both species over the centuries. That's an observable fact. Can certainly appreciate the loss of a good dog as felt by my outdoors colleagues. I don't think outdoor photography compensates for that experience as the MR so shrilly suggests.

Finally, in response to the characterizations of we hunters as unsuited for back-country activities and vigorous physical challenges, I list the following:
59 years of age, 6'2" & 185 lbs (34 inch waist). Competitive distance runner for over 40 years, a triathlete racer for over 20 years and lots of age group medals hanging next to pictures of me holding dead grouse with my Labrador Retriever next to me. Lots of solo backpacking hunting and fishing trips over the years in the Adirondacks, Northern Maine Woods, the Green Mountain NF of Vermont, the Cohutta Wilderness of the Chattahoochee NF and the Nantahala NF of NC. Just me, a backpack, boots, a compass and a rifle. I feel that disproves any theory that we outdoorsman really cant handle life in the wilds.

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 1 hour ago

I just checked out the Field and Stream profiles on nota33 and Misterranger. This is the first time both of these animals’ rights protesters were ever on this F&S website.
Maybe we should all go over to the websites of Peta, the Humane Society and the Friends of Animals with our pro hunting comments. They would go ballistics if we did that to them.

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from Mark Grupp wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

So the dog trees mountain lions and you shoot them with pistols? You call yourself sportsman? You should be arrested for endangering your dog and being lame. Ever heard of a high powered rifle?

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from Mark Grupp wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

So the dog trees mountain lions and you shoot them with pistols? You call yourself sportsman? You should be arrested for endangering your dog and being lame. Ever heard of a high powered rifle?

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

Another one-post-wonder. Mr. Grupp, do you even know the difference between a "high powered rifle" and a "pistol"? At thirty feet a slightly larger than medium-sized .357 pistol is just as deadly as a gigantic .300 Weatherby magnum rifle. What's the point in lugging a big rifle around if it's not needed? You absolutely have no clue about what's involved but somehow you dream up some criticism that's just plain stupid. Stick to the bleeding heart angle. You obviously know nothing about guns or hunting.

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from BuckWhistleWorksBest wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

Boo Hoo. First things first-I am an avid sportsman, love to hunt and absolutely love dogs. If you are going to bring your dogs in the wild to sniff out cats, theres a risk. I feel bad your dog lost every instinct it had as it was treeing a lion so you could set up, scratch your ass and then shoot it (is that really that gratifying anyways???)Bottom line, score one for the wolves.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

And shooting your deer out of a blind over bait or a "food plot" is any more "gratifying?" Talk about "scratch your ass" type of hunting!

And no I don't run animals up a tree with my dogs and shoot them. But in the case of cougars that's about the only way to harvest them. And if you lived in that country you'd know that the cats are very much in need of harvesting right now. It's not my kind of hunting either but I guess I'm glad someone is doing it. Better option for the cats than trapping them.

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from nota33 wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

Harvest?? you mean kill. Do you know it cowardly it is to shoot an animal stuck in a tree? Why don't you be a real conservationist and shoot the treed cougar with a camera, not a gun. if you really cared about the cougar, you'd take a picture of him, not put a bullet in him.

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from kycrumpy9 wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

I love that Nota and Misterranger know all about how hunting is conducted. First of all hunters are the LARGEST contributors to conservation there are. DO you think that licenses, fees, equipment sales just go to some random Joe Schmo's pocket? HA! How much have you donated to conservation? Also a lot of hunters through down money to get permits and hunting access in drawings that they never get to use because their name wasn't drawn.

When it comes to the wolves, they are naturally from these lands. The only difference is these wolves have no fear of humans or dogs. I would bet a lot of money if you blasted a hound baying and the wolves come running give them a rubber bullet like with the bears. Soon the wolves hear a hound and head for the hills. Only thing is it has to happen all over not with one or two packs. That way the tree huggers aren't complaining and hunters area violating any rules and their dogs are safe.

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from nota33 wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

That's a dumb comment to make kycrumpy. Wolves are not supposed to have a fear of dogs. The wolf is the top dog and the apex predator. Wolves will kill any dog they see in their territory. If a hunting dog is killed by the wolves, the blame deserves to be put on that moron who let his dog loose in the first place.

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from poetwild wrote 49 weeks 5 days ago

No, we are the APEX Predators. If it's natural for the wolves to kill, it's natural for humans. Biological fact...we are OMNIVORES. Anthropological and historical facts....we have been PREDATORS since before we could write and speak. The animal rights bloggers here are the morons. No understanding of humans and evolutionary history. You folks have some real psychiatric issues. Can't accept the facts.

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from nota33 wrote 49 weeks 5 days ago

No, you're not an apex predator. The wolf is the apex predator. It's been proven by science. You're an omnivore and the wolf is a carnivore. Carnivores are the top apex predators. You can't accept the facts poetwild.

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from capper336 wrote 49 weeks 5 days ago

Nota33 & misterranger- do you really have any idea or clue what you are talking about? Seriously! I think you just like trolling boards and spewing filth! I think its really cool that you can throw out cool little "buzzwords" like Apex Predator and such....Hey if you don't agree with hunting thats your right, just as it is others to enjoy it, use it for conservation, food and sport. But the fact that you come onto a site like this, and start trolling just shows how uneducated a educated person can be. People like myself that have hunted for 90% of their lives will continue to do so, do you really think that some that says that have a "education" can come on the boards and throw out words like "Apex Predator" and "Dirtnap" (Which by the way I find funny that you like to use) and really are going to change anyones opinion? You are without a doubt what is at the root cause of what is wrong with our society. oh and here is a little tidbit of information for you, for someone who has said they have a education.....

Apex predators (also known as alpha, super, top or top-level predators) are predators with no predators of their own, residing at the top of their food chain.[1] Zoologists define predation as the killing and consumption of another organism (which generally excludes parasites and most bacteria).[2] In this context, "apex predator" is usually defined in terms of trophic dynamics. Apex predator species occupy the highest trophic level(s) and have a crucial role in maintaining the health of their ecosystems. One study of marine food webs defined apex predators as greater than trophic level four.[3] The apex predator concept is commonly applied in wildlife management, conservation, and ecotourism.

Food chains are often far shorter on land, with the top of the food chain limited to the third trophic level, as where such predators as the big cats, crocodilians, hyenas, wolves, or giant constrictor snakes prey upon large herbivores. Apex predators do not need to be hypercarnivores. For example, grizzly bears and humans[4] are each apex predators and are omnivores.

So maybe you all need to do a little homework before you come on sites like these and do nothing but support what the hunting community actually does.\

I have said my peace and I am done....I will not give any further comments from you a second thought nor respond to your nonsense.

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from Lexer Wolf wrote 49 weeks 4 days ago

When I see a wolf or wolves, I shoot them right there on the spot. No questions asked. They didn't ask one of my dogs if he wanted to live, so they receive the same treatment. Sorry PETA People, there's not a thing you can do about it.

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from nota33 wrote 49 weeks 4 days ago

lexer wolf is a wildlife hater. He's mad that wolves get to harvest elk, deer, and moose all year round and not a thing he can do about it.

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from Lexer Wolf wrote 49 weeks 4 days ago

Take note nota33......obviously your comment depicts the type of person you are. Which, is one with little common sense or the ability to present a valid argument on any level. I'm not mad at the Wolf, or a wildlife hater, because the wildlife you mention, is what I enjoy on a daily basis(watching, videoing, taking photos of, shooting and eating), the wolf is part of this process no doubt. It's the people who re-introduced the wolf w/o having a plan in place to control them that ultimately made the mistake. However, because they made this mistake, I have to handle it my own way on my own land. IF they're attacking my animals(which I consider family), then they will pay with their life.......that rule applies to anything or anyone. I'm actually grilling up some venison backstraps today.......if you were in the area, I'd invite you over for lunch. G@me

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from nota33 wrote 49 weeks 4 days ago

lexer wolf, you are obviously a wildlife hating extremist.

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from bscrandall wrote 49 weeks 3 days ago

The Iowa and Montana Departments of fish and game set hunting regulations. They make people pay fines if they are violating the regulations. If they're going to do that, then they need to help fix this problem. Pretty soon the wolves will spread into urban areas. What if a wolf kills a human, are they just going to push this issue to the side like they done here?

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from bscrandall wrote 49 weeks 3 days ago

To nota33, get a ranch in Colorado and raise calves. Don't do anything about the wolves and cougars that are coming and killing your livestock and see how you feel. After that, do you want to shoot them with a camera or a gun?

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from d2jlking wrote 47 weeks 4 days ago

Wow. It's been awhile since I've read the comments below these type of articles. I am STILL amazed at the ignorance of "anti-hunters". Why even comment on a subject that you clearly know so little about. Any lion hunter, outfitter, etc...will tell you that hunting mountain lions with dogs is one of the most strenuous hunts you can undertake. The lion gets shot in a tree. So. Is anyone here under the impression that a deer or elk taken at 200 yards with a scoped rifle is more of a challenge? The houndsmen and lion hunters have to physically follow those hounds through steep and difficult terrain. I look forward to hunting mountain lions in Montana. I feel sorry for the hunters who have lost dogs to wolves. It is definitely a risk they take, though. As for the wolves, they're legal to hunt now, so I say hunt em.

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from d2jlking wrote 47 weeks 4 days ago

Wow. It's been awhile since I've read the comments below these type of articles. I am STILL amazed at the ignorance of "anti-hunters". Why even comment on a subject that you clearly know so little about. Any lion hunter, outfitter, etc...will tell you that hunting mountain lions with dogs is one of the most strenuous hunts you can undertake. The lion gets shot in a tree. So. Is anyone here under the impression that a deer or elk taken at 200 yards with a scoped rifle is more of a challenge? The houndsmen and lion hunters have to physically follow those hounds through steep and difficult terrain. I look forward to hunting mountain lions in Montana. I feel sorry for the hunters who have lost dogs to wolves. It is definitely a risk they take, though. As for the wolves, they're legal to hunt now, so I say hunt em.

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from Robertou812 wrote 44 weeks 2 days ago

Their ignorance is measured by the size of the check they write to the sierra club. Intresting how narrow minded and sophomoric this group is, and how easly they are lead around by the ring in their nose. Nice delivery Lexer wolf..........seemed to shut her down.

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from bruisedsausage wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

MisterCringer,

I imagine you must be a yogurt faced, granola eating hippie. You also have absolutely no concept of how arduous lion hunting is. FWIW wolves are in OUR home, not us in theirs. So grab a stick of celery, hug a bunny, and start educating yourself.

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from ITHACASXS wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Hey Nota33, guess what? It's MY backyard too, from sea to shining sea. Wherever I go, if it's not private, or off limits for some great reason, it's for me and my fellow citizens to hunt, fish, smell the flowers, sleep under the stars play the guitar or some other noble pursuit. If wolfie, his cousins or any other fellow carnivore gives me or my friends a hard time, it's good night to them. Don't worry, I don't provoke, but I'm not taking any business from them or you.

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from baconboy206 wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

domestic dogs get killed when they run around in the wolf habitat? Didnt see that one coming. In all seriousness though they should have seen this one coming a long ways off. These guys need to get in contact with lion guides up in BC who run hounds for cats in the winter in areas with large wolf populations. As long as these wolves get shot at enough like our wolves in my part of BC they should learn to stay away pretty quickly, they are smart animals.

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from Filson wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

First off, my thoughts and prayers for a wonderful dog/pet who died in the chase. She was not ours so we can't claim to put a value on how she contributed to the family. I'm sure that young man had a special spot near his heart and bed for her. Now I'm a Michigan man, we have bears, and cougars, but I'm going to reference the upper Peninsula for this post. In 2010 a guy was running dogs after a bear, said dogs were mauled by wolves. As a man I couldn't imagine finding my dogs dead in the woods, as well he couldn't. He called MDNR(deercops) when they returned to the scene the wolves had come back to feed on his dogs some more. How would you feel? Ok, those of you who say, why are you in their woods? The answer is because we can hunt there. So the question is how do we protect our dogs from wolves, well MDNR, and I'm sure many other states like Mitten say, don't run dogs on bears in wolf territory. Haaha...Ok, 1 not good, 2, time to game up. A wolf runs around a hundred pounds, so lets put a pack at 5, the Isle Royale wolf study would put the pack smaller, but let's just go the left way. I have a lead dog, great dane mix, you know, huge bait dog, the kind they use on 400#hogs, followed up by a hound, sounds like wolf food right? But wait, did you know one of the most trainable dogs is......a dog trained for.....what it's bread for...Fighting, not saying they're great with house pets(cats, woodchucks, ect), but the last coyote that hit my farm got smoked without a shot, and when we went north, I wasn't worried. 6 pits, one lead dane, and a tracker, "wolves" "they gone" Not to sound like a white trash HillBilly, but when my dogs have kevlar vests and collars, and a wolf comes up, I bring a pack to meet a pack. Besides I'm hoping to find a 500# bear duh! I want them to come home safe. Wolves are just a new part of the prob. BTW, not that much of one either. Again, I'm sorry about Saddie, that must be a tough loss, but last August when the wolves tried to get duke, well...he wasn't running alone. If you're gonna go in, go deep, and go prepared. Love a Dane for a lead, love some pits for the clean up. BTW, I do not, nor have I ever condoned dog violence! For a good protective dog gear go to Blockydogz.com FyI 6 pits, 1 Dane, and a hound beats 9 wolves. Got some skulls to prove.

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from circle8 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

A good wolf is a dead wolf.

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from Pray- hunt-work wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Dear Sister Ranger and Nota- If you sleep better at night because you protested online about your anti-hunting beliefs then feel free. Truth be told, you have no idea what you speak of, your credibilty is lacking big time. I as a houndsman and hunter are a much better conservationist than you will ever be. My money spent pursuing game largely goes to conservation efforts, I.E. habitat structure and support, land management, research studies, and population data. Part of conservation is keeping populations in check, which I will wholeheartedly continue to do, while you needlessly blog away on our website for your own reasons. You, in my eyes, are a huge stumbling block to the greatest group of conservationist on this earth, The Hunter.

P.S.- if you would care to walk my hounds in the woods sometime, we will keep them on a lead, and "mosey" on through the woods. Sometimes eight miles as the crow flies, with 15 lbs of gear, and see if you have what it takes. Also, thank you for inventing granola, it is a great energy booster and often enables me to treck across large tracks of beautiful and rugged terrain to make the harvesting kill shot.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

I hunt hard behind my dogs. You wouldn't have a prayer of keeping up with us. I'm sixty years old and I regularly walk (not run!) three miles in thirty five minutes. I'm 6'1" and 180 lbs. Let's see if you're in that kind of shape when you're sixty! I routinely am on my feet from before dawn till after midnight when I'm hunting (it often takes hours after dusk to get back to my rig). You two don't have a clue what bird hunting behind dogs is about. It's hard work. But I love it ... mostly because it is hard work. A lot harder than washing the vegetables from the grocery store!

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from capper336 wrote 49 weeks 5 days ago

Nota33 & misterranger- do you really have any idea or clue what you are talking about? Seriously! I think you just like trolling boards and spewing filth! I think its really cool that you can throw out cool little "buzzwords" like Apex Predator and such....Hey if you don't agree with hunting thats your right, just as it is others to enjoy it, use it for conservation, food and sport. But the fact that you come onto a site like this, and start trolling just shows how uneducated a educated person can be. People like myself that have hunted for 90% of their lives will continue to do so, do you really think that some that says that have a "education" can come on the boards and throw out words like "Apex Predator" and "Dirtnap" (Which by the way I find funny that you like to use) and really are going to change anyones opinion? You are without a doubt what is at the root cause of what is wrong with our society. oh and here is a little tidbit of information for you, for someone who has said they have a education.....

Apex predators (also known as alpha, super, top or top-level predators) are predators with no predators of their own, residing at the top of their food chain.[1] Zoologists define predation as the killing and consumption of another organism (which generally excludes parasites and most bacteria).[2] In this context, "apex predator" is usually defined in terms of trophic dynamics. Apex predator species occupy the highest trophic level(s) and have a crucial role in maintaining the health of their ecosystems. One study of marine food webs defined apex predators as greater than trophic level four.[3] The apex predator concept is commonly applied in wildlife management, conservation, and ecotourism.

Food chains are often far shorter on land, with the top of the food chain limited to the third trophic level, as where such predators as the big cats, crocodilians, hyenas, wolves, or giant constrictor snakes prey upon large herbivores. Apex predators do not need to be hypercarnivores. For example, grizzly bears and humans[4] are each apex predators and are omnivores.

So maybe you all need to do a little homework before you come on sites like these and do nothing but support what the hunting community actually does.\

I have said my peace and I am done....I will not give any further comments from you a second thought nor respond to your nonsense.

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from 60256 wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

Montana FWP spokesman Ron Aasheim:

"The houndsmen know about this as a challenge, but I don’t know what an agency like ours would do about it."

Are you kidding me? You guys are the guys that are supposed to handle problems like this!!!

Nate

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from bruisedsausage wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

Just had one of "those" moments... Time to start calling in wolves using "Hound" calls. In Idaho its legal to use electronic calls to hunt wolves, and would probably work well. I personally know two different people that have lost hounds to wolves over the past three years. Seems like since they are so drawn to the sound of baying hounds that we ought to use that to hunt them? Marketing genius...

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from beardo wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

If you're not willing to risk encountering wolves in wolf habitat, don't run your dogs there. You're the invader. Defend yourself and your dogs, but don't complain about something that should be expected to happen.

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from lukeduke wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

That was a quite a loss. I bet Sadie was a great cat hound. She pushed that lion to tree and was way ahead of the other hounds. I believe females make the best hounds.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

My, look at all the one-post-wonders coming out of the woodwork! All thinking they should be able to remake nature into what they think it should be rather than what it has been for the last ten thousand years.

By the way, cougar is some of the finest wild game meat there is. About as close to chicken as you can get.

I agree, if you hunt the wild - and it is truly wild - then you gotta take your lumps. I knew there was a problem wolf in the area last year where I hunt geese with my dogs and sure enough he approached my deeks just at daybreak one morning. My dogs bristled and tipped me off but I kept them under control. I didn't shoot him 1) because he was too far away and I only had goose load shotgun and 2) NEVER, EVER shoot at anything around the dogs unless it's something they are supposed to be going after (learned that lesson the hard way last fall). Eventually the farmer shot the poor mangy bugger when it got in the hay barn and refused to leave.

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from CyCurtis152 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Nota33 and misterranger please take your anti hunting rhetoric elsewhere. We conservationists don't care to hear your opinions about things you do not understand. Nota33 according to you the wolves are at the top of the food chain and when they kill for any reason (and yes wolves sometimes kill just to kill) it is fine. Yet when a man kills (and according to you man is not at the top of the food chain wolves are) for food or any other reason he is a hypocrite for doing so. Pathetic. Please by all means go out and congratulate the wolves for killing that young mans dog. According to you guys they will understand your approval. Also if you truly are what you eat I am sure they will enjoy a good vegan meal. Hope you don't twist your ankle when you walk off the paved streets your used to.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Well, nota, go see how letting wolves do all the checking by themselves has worked out for them at Isle Royale. Gees, the ranger dude should know all about this. But of course he won't want to hear about it because it doesn't fit in with his image of how he thinks nature should work. Wolves and moose are the main attraction out there. And they are both exotic species. Originally the island had caribou only. The miners who showed up after the middle of the 19th century eliminated the timber which eliminated the caribou. Some time in the early 19th century the moose showed up. It's still a matter of some debate how that happened. Consensus seems to be they were brought over in a mail boat. The moose overran the place and we suspect that the wolves on the mainland 25 miles away eventually smelled the rotting carcasses from starving moose and made the trek over on ice during a particularly cold year. Then the place became a National Park unit and we all know what their feeling is about hunting. But it never has been able to balance itself out there. The wolves eventually kill almost all the moose off and they then start to die off due to disease, etc. (as they are now doing). Then the moose population goes ballistic and they eat the ground cover down to the height of a golf green. Then they all die off. And these animals don't die a noble death. I'm quite sure if they had their preferences they'd take getting shot over starvation and disease. And before I leave this subject, the NPS mandate is to protect and preserve the natural environment and wildlife. Since the moose and wolves never were part of the natural environment to start with, perhaps they should ALL be eliminated and the caribou returned instead? Problem with that is too many visitors. They expect to see SOMETHING with fur on it and caribou are extremely reclusive. And the caribou would fair no better because they required that the native people come out to the island every spring and harvest some of them (and I know this for a fact because I translated some of the earliest missionary diaries for that country).

Taking the human element out of predation is anything but natural. We've been here doing it for too long. We've also created so much unnatural artificial environment that's unnaturally favorable for particular species (e.g. Isle Royale). Consequently, it is our obligation to manage their numbers, for the sake of the land and everything else that lives on it. Mother nature didn't till up the fields with gang plows or put developments and golf courses around all the waterways. How can we expect her to control the explosion of geese created by these artificial environments? We made the mess and we have to help keep it clean.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Hunting is a dirty business but if we humans as the top predator don't help do it, it gets a LOT dirtier.

And incidentally, humans have been hunting with dogs for as long as they have been domesticated. It's no doubt the reason they were domesticated. Not to sit on your lap or walk around a show ring.

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 23 hours ago

Misterranger, your second comment back brought up the weight issue not me. I will quote your own words below;

"If hunting with dogs (and even without them) is sooo very arduous how come you are all overweight? Go Veg!!!"

I translate your words as saying all sportsmen who hunt with dogs are overweight and we should eat veggies instead of meat.
I don't see the connection. What does being overweight and going Vegan have to do with dogs running down cougars or a wolf pack killing a hunting dog?

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 1 hour ago

I just checked out the Field and Stream profiles on nota33 and Misterranger. This is the first time both of these animals’ rights protesters were ever on this F&S website.
Maybe we should all go over to the websites of Peta, the Humane Society and the Friends of Animals with our pro hunting comments. They would go ballistics if we did that to them.

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from Lexer Wolf wrote 49 weeks 4 days ago

When I see a wolf or wolves, I shoot them right there on the spot. No questions asked. They didn't ask one of my dogs if he wanted to live, so they receive the same treatment. Sorry PETA People, there's not a thing you can do about it.

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from Lexer Wolf wrote 49 weeks 4 days ago

Take note nota33......obviously your comment depicts the type of person you are. Which, is one with little common sense or the ability to present a valid argument on any level. I'm not mad at the Wolf, or a wildlife hater, because the wildlife you mention, is what I enjoy on a daily basis(watching, videoing, taking photos of, shooting and eating), the wolf is part of this process no doubt. It's the people who re-introduced the wolf w/o having a plan in place to control them that ultimately made the mistake. However, because they made this mistake, I have to handle it my own way on my own land. IF they're attacking my animals(which I consider family), then they will pay with their life.......that rule applies to anything or anyone. I'm actually grilling up some venison backstraps today.......if you were in the area, I'd invite you over for lunch. G@me

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from bscrandall wrote 49 weeks 3 days ago

To nota33, get a ranch in Colorado and raise calves. Don't do anything about the wolves and cougars that are coming and killing your livestock and see how you feel. After that, do you want to shoot them with a camera or a gun?

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from nchunt101 wrote 50 weeks 3 days ago

SSS - best thing for a wolf

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

Wolves are hell on coyotes too. Might want to use a recording of coyote howling. I bet that would work. Sounds like a great new sport in the making. More fun than bringing in coyotes with rabbit calls.

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from berniedog wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

What about the concept of adding another dog to the mix. Something to add some security to the lion dogs like a pyrenees does with sheep. Seems like the lion dogs are most vulnerable when they are focused on a treed animal. If they had another dog keeping watch over "the pack", just long enough for the hunters to get there, maybe it would help.

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from maddy wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

though this is very, very sad, you do have to know that it is something that does happen. i got a beagle that i intended to take hunting rabbits, but then i heard that sometimes cyotes (hate em') attack beagles on the run. so long storie short, stumpy is retierd earlier then planned.

but yeah, i'm very sorry and wish you the best of luck. i also have one little tip about the wofls: choot em'

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from Ranx wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

berniedog,

I once read about the use of Airedales in hunting packs some time in the past. They are the largest of the terriers - imagine a rat terrier blown up to full size. Of course, Irish Wolfhounds were bred for the purpose so having one of those in the bunch couldn't hurt. At 200 or so pounds and purpose bred for wolf hunting they ought to do the trick.

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from Charlie Little Bear wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

I agree with bruisesausage. Mistercringer doesnt have a clue what he\she is talking about. When the first child is killed and eaten by wolves , then you will see a lot of people changing their attitudes about wolves. meanwhile, I say shoot as many as we can or they will continue to multiply and decimate game populations across the US as they already have in parts of Montana....or we could just livetrap them and ship them to the city where mister cringer lives. I bet wolves like to eat lapdogs and house cats too. I use to hunt with dogs for yeas, and I loved everyone of them. They were doing what their instincts told them to do and they loved doing it. I feel sorry for the houndsmen as well as their dogs, and I plan to do everything I can to prevent it from happening in my area.

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from Flyer wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

This recent developement of to many wolves in Michigan is why I don't hunt birds in the UP. Now the idiots want wolves in the lower peninsula. My dogs are pets and hunters. I'll hunt without them before I'll risk their lives because some tree hugger in the East or suburbia wants to save their Disney fantasy of what wild animals do with their free time. Better yet let's give some to NY City for central park and DC for the Capital parks. By the way, maybe they should watch a pack in Yellowstone tear apart an elk calf or buffalo. Perhaps the American Human Society only cares about wolves and not pets. In Michigan they are paying for TV ads encouraging people to fight wolf and song bird (doves) hunting in Michigan.

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from William W Simon wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

I think this is a perfect time to set a beying dog decoy out and with an electric caller you can bring the killer wolves in and eliminate the ones that are killing your dogs. After a while they will stay away from your hounds . People dont realize how much you have invested in your dogs time and money not to say some are loved like one of your kids.

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

The only different between you two animal rights protesters is we hunt and eat our own meat from the game animals we shoot during hunting season. You two tree huggers go to a food store for your meat from animal killed in a slaughter house. The wild animals we hunt had a chance to live and die of old age. Your slaughter house animals are all dome to death and none live old age. How inhumane you bambi lover hypocrites are.

Don’t write back and say you are a vegetarian. We don’t believe it because your animal rights protesters have lied in the past! In December 2005 four from your animal right members were charged for harassing hunters in New Jersey during bear season. All four swore on the Bible and lied to the entire courtroom under oath. A NJ state trooper was an eye witness with two other hunters during the harassing sting operation and your members lied one at a time to everyone in the courtroom. The Honorable Judge knew they were all lying and found them all guilty. They even were lying to God after swearing on the Bible one at a time up at the witness stand. I was there in the courtroom in person.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

I am retired from the US National Park Service. Also spent many years working for the US Forest Service. You may have more time in the backcountry than me but I really doubt it. My resume includes a real live PhD in history with a second BA in biology. If you had ANY experience in the Park Service you would know EXACTLY what my "argument" is re Isle Royale. You're just not comfortable with it so you ignore it (you'd make an excellent bureaucrat in the Ontario government!). Oh, and I forgot to mention how well letting nature handle the deer situation at Gettysburg worked out. Everyone can google for themselves and see what a terrible tragedy that turned out to be for the poor deer ... and everything else that tried to live in that park unit.

Life is about death. If you learned ANYTHING at all in your Environmental Studies course work (for all those courses are worth!) you would understand and appreciate that life in the "natural" environment is also about death. Unfortunately there is almost no place left on earth that is a "natural environment." Like it or not humans have altered and continue to alter every bit of land, air, or sea on the globe. It's silly to think we can simply leave nature to its own devices when humans are such an important ingredient both historically and, more than ever, today. Any environmental studies professor with any kind of grasp of reality would agree. Sometimes I wish the world was a place where human beings never evolved. Everything would probably be the better for it. But we did evolve and during that course we have shaped what it's become, for better or worse. To simply walk away at this point and abandon our historical role creates havoc (e.g. deer at Gettysburg and the mountain goats at Olympic NP). Only makes a bad situation worse.

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from William W Simon wrote 50 weeks 18 hours ago

I wouldn't get too conserned with what misterranger says he or she probably wasn't a ranger or was kicked out because of attitude .He or She sounds like one of those professional college students living off government grants studying bugs.He or She might be the one that said why do you hunt why dont you get your meat at the grocery store where nothing gets killed.

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from pastorm1 wrote 50 weeks 17 hours ago

I live in Western Kansas about 40 miles from the Colorado border. We are already seeing some migration of wildlife into our area that I assume are coming from Colorado. There are now some elk and mountain lions. I guess the farmers killed off the few antelope that tried to move in. I am concerned more about what will happen to livestock if wolves move into our area following the elk and mule deer. They would probably like to dine on a nice steer. Knowing some of the farmers around here they would probably make an effort to eradicate all wolves from our area. The wolves could hurt their livelihood.

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from berniedog wrote 50 weeks 7 hours ago

Wow! A lot of angry people on this thread. I imagine that to even be on the F&S website you have to be some type of outdoors man / nature lover. After all, most hunters I know are more in tune with nature then the hippies I know. And believe me, I know plenty of both.

Hunting with dogs is one of the most thrilling and zen like experiences you can have. Dogs were bread to perform specific tasks, be it a bird dog, or lion dog, but still. They spend the vast majority of their lives as a Family Dog. Any loss of family is horrible.

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from wisc14 wrote 50 weeks 7 hours ago

i've been in northern wi. all my life and never had a problem with wolves nota so i'm not too worried.

and i highly doubt you could even tell the diffference between a wolf, a coyote, and a siberian husky

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from hawndog wrote 50 weeks 5 hours ago

To answer your question, my Resume' includes a degree in Environmental Science, 11 years working for the US Geological Survey, two hunting dogs, a shotgun a rifle and a four wheel drive.

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from poetwild wrote 50 weeks 5 hours ago

Totally agree with Ont. Honker and totally disagree with with Mister-ranger. That Environmental Sciences degree that MR touts as compelling expertise is really a political science degree with some extremely value-laden pretentiousness masquerading as biological fact. It certainly misses the role of humans in the natural world. The whole portrayal of humans by MR fails to acknowledge that we are biologically speaking omnivores who have survived by our ability to consume both animal flesh and vegetation. Therefore, to act as predators is part of our evolution. I don't think those highly sentient wolves feel sorry for the ungulates they kill to survive. Don't see them adopting a no-kill policy in empathy for other species. No reason they should.

A lot of judgmental, emotional bias (i.e., personal problems) evident in the characterizations of hunters and hunting by MR and his soul mate, the nasty and ill-informed nota33. For rejoinder, I'll keep hunting, fishing and living on my terms. Further, the bond between
human hunter and canine is one of those behavioral adaptions that has benefited both species over the centuries. That's an observable fact. Can certainly appreciate the loss of a good dog as felt by my outdoors colleagues. I don't think outdoor photography compensates for that experience as the MR so shrilly suggests.

Finally, in response to the characterizations of we hunters as unsuited for back-country activities and vigorous physical challenges, I list the following:
59 years of age, 6'2" & 185 lbs (34 inch waist). Competitive distance runner for over 40 years, a triathlete racer for over 20 years and lots of age group medals hanging next to pictures of me holding dead grouse with my Labrador Retriever next to me. Lots of solo backpacking hunting and fishing trips over the years in the Adirondacks, Northern Maine Woods, the Green Mountain NF of Vermont, the Cohutta Wilderness of the Chattahoochee NF and the Nantahala NF of NC. Just me, a backpack, boots, a compass and a rifle. I feel that disproves any theory that we outdoorsman really cant handle life in the wilds.

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from ITHACASXS wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

I'm just a city boy who loves hunting and the outdoors, but I believe that these hound men, providing they are not shackled with foolish regs, can and will figure out how to handle these wolves.

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from OJYfamilia wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

Im just tired of losing "family members" aka "family dogs" and here I am having that problem here in washington state .... what next my kids? me? or my whole family? than is there going to be a concern ... that movie "THE GREY" is telling the truth .. you cant tame wild animals nor can you tell them what to do .. it is not like we are trying to save a whale or do some tree hugging ... these are killers

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from rock rat wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Too bad about the dogs and I hope things work out better in the future. Dogs and traps do more for wildlife conservation than many realize.

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from hutter wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Don't respond to the nons. They only want to make you angry,and if you say something in anger they will let the D.H.S. know about you. In the D.H.S. eyes this could be construde as DOMESTIC VIOLENCE and they will come get your stuff. I have read elsewhere about this.

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

I have witness many animal rights protester picket lines in New Jersey during the black bear hunt. I didn't see any thin people picketing. They were mostly loud mouth heavy weight women. So much for your vegetable theory that keeps you all thin.

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

By the way, there were a few men there on the same picket line that were emasculated by the women into thinking killing a black bear is sick.

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from GENO wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

It's sad, but come on, you had to see it coming.

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 23 hours ago

BTW, I would believe an expert Fish and Game Department Wildlife Biologist who says there is a need for hunting cougars, wolves and bears over an alleged park ranger. The Intelligent Biologist carries more creditably by far.

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from Gary Devine wrote 50 weeks 23 hours ago

sorry, creditbility should be on the last line

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from Rick Shmonster wrote 50 weeks 22 hours ago

Boo Hoo, that's hunting , what did you expect , you go into the wilderness you better expect things like that , that's why it's call the untamed wild . Do you really think that cat expects dogs to tree him so humans can come and shoot him like a sitting duck ?
Hey Im not a hater , born in the bush and grew up in the bush and still live and hunt in the wild . That is just the cost of doing business .

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from wisc14 wrote 50 weeks 20 hours ago

to the anti-hunters suddenly on here. i hunt deer, wild turkey, ruffed grouse and catch fish to feed myself. just as my ancestors and the native cultures have done on this continent for it's entire existence. all living things are part of the food chain, i eat the deer just as the wolf does.

if any of you actually eat meat from a grocery store then please think of what a hypocrit you are. if you are a vegetarian, then i would like to sarcastically say thank you for largely supporting genetically modified roundup ready crops which are destroying this planet.

oh and by the way i like having wolves around. there isn't much like hearing the howl of a wolf in a wild place. i leave the wolves alone and they have left me alone. however if one ever does come at my black lab when i'm grouse hunting then the .357 will be lettin lead fly

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from wisc14 wrote 50 weeks 18 hours ago

nah nota, my .357 will give the wolf a good long dirtnap.
also you are clueless. if you can read you would see i don't hunt with hounds but with a birddog. a flushing dog that is always within sight of me

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

Another one-post-wonder. Mr. Grupp, do you even know the difference between a "high powered rifle" and a "pistol"? At thirty feet a slightly larger than medium-sized .357 pistol is just as deadly as a gigantic .300 Weatherby magnum rifle. What's the point in lugging a big rifle around if it's not needed? You absolutely have no clue about what's involved but somehow you dream up some criticism that's just plain stupid. Stick to the bleeding heart angle. You obviously know nothing about guns or hunting.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

And shooting your deer out of a blind over bait or a "food plot" is any more "gratifying?" Talk about "scratch your ass" type of hunting!

And no I don't run animals up a tree with my dogs and shoot them. But in the case of cougars that's about the only way to harvest them. And if you lived in that country you'd know that the cats are very much in need of harvesting right now. It's not my kind of hunting either but I guess I'm glad someone is doing it. Better option for the cats than trapping them.

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from kycrumpy9 wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

I love that Nota and Misterranger know all about how hunting is conducted. First of all hunters are the LARGEST contributors to conservation there are. DO you think that licenses, fees, equipment sales just go to some random Joe Schmo's pocket? HA! How much have you donated to conservation? Also a lot of hunters through down money to get permits and hunting access in drawings that they never get to use because their name wasn't drawn.

When it comes to the wolves, they are naturally from these lands. The only difference is these wolves have no fear of humans or dogs. I would bet a lot of money if you blasted a hound baying and the wolves come running give them a rubber bullet like with the bears. Soon the wolves hear a hound and head for the hills. Only thing is it has to happen all over not with one or two packs. That way the tree huggers aren't complaining and hunters area violating any rules and their dogs are safe.

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from poetwild wrote 49 weeks 5 days ago

No, we are the APEX Predators. If it's natural for the wolves to kill, it's natural for humans. Biological fact...we are OMNIVORES. Anthropological and historical facts....we have been PREDATORS since before we could write and speak. The animal rights bloggers here are the morons. No understanding of humans and evolutionary history. You folks have some real psychiatric issues. Can't accept the facts.

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from nota33 wrote 49 weeks 4 days ago

lexer wolf is a wildlife hater. He's mad that wolves get to harvest elk, deer, and moose all year round and not a thing he can do about it.

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from nota33 wrote 49 weeks 4 days ago

lexer wolf, you are obviously a wildlife hating extremist.

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from bscrandall wrote 49 weeks 3 days ago

The Iowa and Montana Departments of fish and game set hunting regulations. They make people pay fines if they are violating the regulations. If they're going to do that, then they need to help fix this problem. Pretty soon the wolves will spread into urban areas. What if a wolf kills a human, are they just going to push this issue to the side like they done here?

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from d2jlking wrote 47 weeks 4 days ago

Wow. It's been awhile since I've read the comments below these type of articles. I am STILL amazed at the ignorance of "anti-hunters". Why even comment on a subject that you clearly know so little about. Any lion hunter, outfitter, etc...will tell you that hunting mountain lions with dogs is one of the most strenuous hunts you can undertake. The lion gets shot in a tree. So. Is anyone here under the impression that a deer or elk taken at 200 yards with a scoped rifle is more of a challenge? The houndsmen and lion hunters have to physically follow those hounds through steep and difficult terrain. I look forward to hunting mountain lions in Montana. I feel sorry for the hunters who have lost dogs to wolves. It is definitely a risk they take, though. As for the wolves, they're legal to hunt now, so I say hunt em.

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from d2jlking wrote 47 weeks 4 days ago

Wow. It's been awhile since I've read the comments below these type of articles. I am STILL amazed at the ignorance of "anti-hunters". Why even comment on a subject that you clearly know so little about. Any lion hunter, outfitter, etc...will tell you that hunting mountain lions with dogs is one of the most strenuous hunts you can undertake. The lion gets shot in a tree. So. Is anyone here under the impression that a deer or elk taken at 200 yards with a scoped rifle is more of a challenge? The houndsmen and lion hunters have to physically follow those hounds through steep and difficult terrain. I look forward to hunting mountain lions in Montana. I feel sorry for the hunters who have lost dogs to wolves. It is definitely a risk they take, though. As for the wolves, they're legal to hunt now, so I say hunt em.

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from Robertou812 wrote 44 weeks 2 days ago

Their ignorance is measured by the size of the check they write to the sierra club. Intresting how narrow minded and sophomoric this group is, and how easly they are lead around by the ring in their nose. Nice delivery Lexer wolf..........seemed to shut her down.

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

dogs don't belong in the wild. any dog that the wolves see. the wolves will give a dirtnap to that dog.

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from Rick Shmonster wrote 50 weeks 22 hours ago

Boo Hoo, that's hunting , what did you expect , you go into the wilderness you better expect things like that , that's why it's call the untamed wild . Do you really think that cat expects dogs to tree him so humans can come and shoot him like a sitting duck ?
Hey Im not a hater , born in the bush and grew up in the bush and still live and hunt in the wild . That is just the cost of doing business .

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 7 hours ago

ur delusional wic and u know that the wolves will give yourself a permanent dirtnap if they catch your mutt in their territory.

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 7 hours ago

will give your dog is what I meant to say.

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from Mark Grupp wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

So the dog trees mountain lions and you shoot them with pistols? You call yourself sportsman? You should be arrested for endangering your dog and being lame. Ever heard of a high powered rifle?

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from Mark Grupp wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

So the dog trees mountain lions and you shoot them with pistols? You call yourself sportsman? You should be arrested for endangering your dog and being lame. Ever heard of a high powered rifle?

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

you are in the wolf's backyard. not the other way around. just accept that there are risks involved when letting your hunting mutts pursue wildlife. If the wolves see any hunting dog, they will give that dog a dirtnap. those hunting dogs don't belong in the wild. the wolves do.

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

you hunters love killing nature, but when nature kills your hunting dog, you throw a hissy fit. hypocrites.

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 19 hours ago

wis, the wolves will give your dog a dirtnap. The wolves are a superior apex predator to you. To those people whining when their hunting dogs is killed by wildlife, cry me a river. You want to chase wildlife with your dogs, but don't like it when the wildlife fights back. The majority of people view hound hunters are fat lazy cowards.

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from nota33 wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

That's a dumb comment to make kycrumpy. Wolves are not supposed to have a fear of dogs. The wolf is the top dog and the apex predator. Wolves will kill any dog they see in their territory. If a hunting dog is killed by the wolves, the blame deserves to be put on that moron who let his dog loose in the first place.

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from nota33 wrote 49 weeks 5 days ago

No, you're not an apex predator. The wolf is the apex predator. It's been proven by science. You're an omnivore and the wolf is a carnivore. Carnivores are the top apex predators. You can't accept the facts poetwild.

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from net1tek wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

Re: Just chootem. The wolves belong there and you don't. Enter their territory and suck it up if they act like a wolf. I'm wondering if the puma was thinking "just chootem" when it was being chased by a pack of yelpers.

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from BuckWhistleWorksBest wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

Boo Hoo. First things first-I am an avid sportsman, love to hunt and absolutely love dogs. If you are going to bring your dogs in the wild to sniff out cats, theres a risk. I feel bad your dog lost every instinct it had as it was treeing a lion so you could set up, scratch your ass and then shoot it (is that really that gratifying anyways???)Bottom line, score one for the wolves.

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from nota33 wrote 49 weeks 6 days ago

Harvest?? you mean kill. Do you know it cowardly it is to shoot an animal stuck in a tree? Why don't you be a real conservationist and shoot the treed cougar with a camera, not a gun. if you really cared about the cougar, you'd take a picture of him, not put a bullet in him.

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from DANelson wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

If you hunt with dogs be prepared for the possibility of having your dogs killed. Dogs are no match for most predators. It actually seems like animal cruelty to me for someone to subject their dogs to the possibility of being mauled or killed. Hunting birds with a good retriever is of course,another matter. When you think about it,how does putting your hounds up against a wolf pack,mountain lions or bears. differ from dog fighting? It seems like splitting hairs to me.

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from Annette Krausse wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

"In all three states, hound hunting is the only widespread management tool for containing lion populations, which have been expanding in recent years." Is the author stating this as the reasoning behind hunting the lions in the first place? You'd think having another predator, such as wolf pacs, would help in the control of lion populations, as they all want the same food source. Before you know it, the cats will be gone in a particular area and then there'll be complaints of too many deer or rabbits.

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

part of conservation is keeping animals in check. yeah, then wolves are the best conservationist around as they keep the elk, deer, and moose in check all year round.

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from Misterranger wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

If hunting with dogs (and even without them) is sooo very arduous how come you are all overweight? Go Veg!!! The problem with people who are stupid is that they don't even know it.

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

a good wolf is a dead one? and you wonder why people hate you hunters. You hunters are wildlife haters and wildlife killers. inbreds.

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

you hunters are stupid misinformed inbred. The wolves harvest and keep the elk, deer, and moose in check ALL YEAR ROUND. That means a lot of harvested animals for the wolves to eat along with many other wild animals that eat the wolves leftovers. If you don't want your mutts killed by wolves, stop using them to pursue wildlife. The wolves will give any hunting dog a dirtnap. That's nature. the wolves are the top apex predator and they will continue harvesting elk, deer, and moose all year round. accept reality.

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from Misterranger wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

Dear Ontario Honker. Those are fascinating points you've made. I swear, I could listen to you talk about how wonderful you are all day. Apparently in your 61 years of life you've not learned how to make a convincing argument or win people over to your side. You'd think you would be better at that by now. Don't feel bad though. It seems that very few people on this thread have those skills.
Oh and Gary Devine... I don't get the connection. What does fat people picketing in NJ have to do with how much effort it takes to follow your dogs while they run down a cat? (Or a bird).

Hunt with a camera instead. It's waaaay more challenging and no one gets hurt. It can be immensely profitable too.

BTW I bet all the guys mentioned in this story wasted the meat from those dogs. I don't see the difference between a dog and a bobcat or wolf. (Or cow or pig for that matter). They are all sentient and want to live. I think they deserve to.

BTW. For anyone interested... My resumé includes a degree in Environmental Studies, years as a back country park ranger for the NPS, scads of time spent in the back country woods enjoying myself. What's on your "nature resumés"?

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from nota33 wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

pray you're not a conservationst. You're a destroyer of wildlife. people like you are anti-wildlife, not the other way around.

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from Misterranger wrote 50 weeks 1 day ago

One more comment.... why don't all you guys who use dogs to do your hunting for you just bring out your reclining chairs while you are out there? You can rest and relax, put your feet up while your dogs do all the work. It doesn't even strike me as "hunting" to bring dogs along. You let them sniff out the quarry, run it until it's exhausted, chase it up a tree and keep it there until you mosey up and blast its guts out at point blank range. That seems pretty wimpy and unfair. Hunting by remote control is a bit more accurate. Then when nature strikes back you cry to the government to to stack the odds even more in your favor. That disgusts me. You should be ashamed.

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from Misterranger wrote 50 weeks 2 days ago

I just LOVE that this is making less people hunt. Hunting is cruel and unnecessary. You are the visitors in THEIR home. Don't be surprised that wildlife will defend itself. Wolves are super intelligent animals who love their lives and their families as much as we do. just because they cant tell you that by using words does not mean its not true. I do feel bad for the poor dog though. She had no idea that what she was doing could cost her life. The human that taught her that it was just a fun game was actually the one who killed her.

Who is the guy above who postulated he might now lose his kids and his whole family to wolves?. What a moron. If you want to be totally safe then go live in the burbs. Leave the wildlife ALONE!!!

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