


August 24, 2010
Deeter: How Quickly Can You Land a Fish?
By Kirk Deeter
So many fly anglers gauge skill by the size of the fish they catch. Sure, it takes a good angler to fool a smart old (big) fish. But I think a better way to judge angling prowess would be to time how fast you can land a fish. I always snicker when I watch the bass pros reefing fish to their boats. Doesn't say much about the moxie of old bucketmouth, in my opinion.

But if you're going to be a catch and release angler, doing so quickly is a better conservation move than the prolonged battle. Maybe we should have time standards. Or maybe we should judge world records by time, instead of by the line weight used.
For example, I personally think landing an 80-pound tarpon on 80-pound test in, say, five minutes is more impressive than landing a an 80-pound tarpon in an hour on 10-pound test. When someone brags about a light tippet world record, I can't help but wonder how many strands of mono or fluoro were busted off on exhausted fish to get there.
But that's just me...
Deeter
Comments (23)
so if i catch a trout on 130 pound mono and just walk up the bank until i land the fish would that count?
Bass anglers land fish quickly because of the need to use heavy line, and heavier sticks fishing in heavy cover, and the need to pull fish out of that heavy cover. The thrill then, is not in the fight, but more on the hookup. When they lift fish out of the water skipping them across the surface, funny thing...the fish can't swim. A fly angler using lighter tippets can often do the same thing. Rather than allowing the fish to dive, and prolong the fight, they can often lift the fish to the surface, and keep it coming, rather than lowering the rod, and allowing the fish to dive. When we throw big flies to the banks pockets on the heavy current side of the river fishing out of driftboats, when we recognize a fish, say 15" or under, and we use 2x, or even bigger tippets, we call them "skippers"...skip that fish on the surface, get him in and released, and get your fly back out there...just like the bass guy. The ave. time was taken of tourney bass anglers to land a fish was timed, and it was 7 sec. to land a bass.
Landing a tarpon on a fly takes a skilled angler realizing how much pressure he can put on a rod. Most anglers have no idea, and never do apply the maximum pressure they could apply with the rod. My neighbor is a fly fishing tarpon guy that grew up in Florida. With his tarpon fly rod, he can pick up a 10 lb bucket of sand with the rod, and that is what kinda pressure he wants to apply to a tarpon to land it in a reasonable time, and release it.
The problem with not playing a fish to exhaustion is when the fish comes to hand they are often more difficult to subdue to get the hook out resulting in injuries from poor handling. It is almost a fine line you are walking. Do you play the fish out or do you aggressively subdue the fish in hand?
We should not have this discussion without mentioning nets. Over the past couple years I have become a proponent of using nets. It shortens the fight and they subdue the fish for an easy unhook.
i agree with both buckhunter and Sayfu
If you want to get into the technical aspect of the whole thing, studies have shown, and the question then becomes can you believe the study?...that horsing in a fish as in applying pressure and bringing it in when it is fighting to run, creates more harm than good...lactic acid builds up greater in fish by "horsing it" than allowing it to run, and then retrieving line when it quits running.
I guided in Alaska, and an effort to bring a King Salmon to net was a less than enjoyable one from the aspect that "sports" that have seldom ever fought a big fish can't apply the necessary pressure, and technique to bring a King to net in a reasonable amount of time.
This is an interesting subject. I tend to think that "playing" the fish into the boat would cause less overall shock to the fish and allow better recovery. The key is keeping the photoshoot to a minimum.
I will never advocate horsing trout for the sole purpose of easy hook removal later.
Florida tarpon, hello I'll not do it then either.
Washington State Halibut...I will do it then only because I need to put a bullet through his head just to get a 90 pounder in the Boston Whaler.
But I've watched TV guys for years growing up like Bill Dance, Jimmy Houston and Bubba this and Bubba that, yard bass out of the water and body slam them to the bottom of the boat. That's a quick catch but the end result release is death to the bass, in my opinion, due to internal organ damage. Now you've led by example Bubba, and the spawned anglers of this mind set are showing this generation and the next, how not to establish any chapter of "Bass Unlimited."
I purchased my first soft plastic hand net for small trout. So termed Catch and Release in 2007 only because tu pressured manufacturers into the design concept in 2005 which came finally into fruition.
buck ~ you are so right...
i tried to land a little 3' shark on a fly rod this morning on a fly rod, did not have time to fight it cuz i had to be at work at 8:00 so i tried strong arming him in... we my fly popped right out of his mouth.. so big props to the fisherman who could do what i couldn't this morning.
Let's don't be too down on the bass if he cannot swim when he is not in the water. Marlin are pretty game, but when a tournament angler backs down on them, they can be brought to the boat with astonishing quickness.
Say what?
Deeter, I'd like to ask the question: What is fly fishing. I'm not referring to the equipment, but how we go about it. I don't agree with fishing the lightest terminal tackle for an oversized fish or over sizing said tackle so you can horse a fish in. It's not sporting if you hook and rip a fish to hand IMHO. Know your waters and what the proper balance is. I don't see anything wrong with a bit of fight on the water.
fflutterffly, The proper playing of a fish is the way to go IMO..fish runs you let him run, and he runs against the lb. pressure of a bent rod. When he stops, you retrieve line and bring him in. How many runs can a freshwater fish make? King Salmon will demand you put considerable pressure, or it becomes a long, drawn out fight that didn't have to last that long if the angler knew how to apply proper pressure. I had kings circling the boat, recuperating to make another run, with a sport stomping all around the boat as I grabbed rods, and gear to keep them from breaking equipment, or hurting themselves who couldn't apply enough pressure to bring in the King. At dinner that night the sport would say, "that fish fought me for at least an hour", and then someone else would say, "we only caught 5 Kings today." And the proper fly rod in the right hands can whip virtually any game fish as well as a spinning, or a bait casting rod.
All good comments (except for the spam I nuked)... I'm all for playing fish... letting them run... in so far that doing so is essential to actually landing them. I use a net (rubber mesh), though I have a lot of friends who would argue that nets are more harm than good. What it comes down to for me is, when I watch an angler monkey around with a 15-inch trout for 10-minutes (with a reel that's essentially free-spooling), giddy as the fish streaks away, time after time after (unnecessary) time, I have to think: "C'mon man, enough is enough." Don't you?
kirkdeeter, If you got down to the specifics of fighting a fish, you would know how much lbs of pressure your rod is applying to a fish at what angle you are holding the rod. You would know how much pressure in comparison to how strong your line is...pertaining to fly fishing, how strong your tippet is at the knot. Many anglers simply fish a lot, and learn how to fight fish. Gary Borger, or maybe Jason, but I think it was Gary, addressed this subject in scientific terms many years ago. There was a clock face composed around the angler, and the angles of the rod displayed on the clock face. As I remember, the rod held at 60% provided the maximum pressure applied by the rod. That is where the butt of the rod comes into play at its maximum. More than that, and the pressure applied by the butt is reduced, and the finer diameter tip comes into play putting less pressure on the fish. If you applied rod pressure against a scale you could determine that. Knowing your equipment is a big key. That is why the tarpon guy, who has to apply maximum pressure because of the size, and fight on the fish, knows how much lbs of pressure he is applying....at least the good ones do.
Sayfu you said it all much better than I implied. Exactly. There is nothing wrong with fighting a fish when it runs. Do it with the right equipment. Where do you fish? What species is dominate? I like your answer.
Deeter More nukes. Maybe if you're program could automatically delete a post with 3 or more negatives.
i can land a fish kinda fast but really depends on how big the fish is .
I agree with you, Deeter. Land 'em fast. I horse most of the fish I catch and release them quickly. I think part of the reason that people "let 'em run" so often is that they don't realize just how little actual pressure that fish is exerting on that 5x tippet.
yrs-
Evan!
ejunk, If a fish runs, and you horse'um in, you have to fish out of another boat, not mine. When a fish runs, he is exhausting himself pulling against the bend in your rod, and the lbs. of pressure being applied as he runs. A most dangerous time for a netter, which is often ME, is to lower your head putting the net in the water, and the fish dives on another run, and the angler "horses"! If you do not lower the rod, and let the fish make another run, the netter has a good chance of getting a lure in the face, or a fly, whatever you are using. And you have no time to react to it.
Kudos to the Spam Assassin, although my Spam related comment above does not make sense now.
a fair point, sayfu, but I don't have a "netter" other than my own right hand (or a boat to fish out of, for that matter). and for the sake of brevity, I didn't get into the exceptions - ie, big fish. I'm talking sub 16" trout here, which is probably what most fly fisherman catch most of the time. get them in, unhook them, let them go, and keep fishing. it's not difficult, it's not dangerous, and there is no need to let a 12" rainbow trout run other than to feed the angler's ego.
yrs-
Evan!
OK, you got it, but I am still not of that conviction. I caught a 10 rainbow recently out of a riffle on my 4wt. using a small dry fly, 4x tippet, and that fish took all my flyline, and about 20ft of my backing...jumped, jumped, jumped, one of the highlights of my summer, and I caught a lot of fish, and many much bigger. I held up my rod, put a good bend in it, and the fish had to be pulling against 1 lb. of pressure, and still got all my flyline. There is no need to overpower fish, and yard them in. As I mentioned in an earlier post, you can stress a fish out much worse overpowering them when they want to run. Lactic acid builds up greater in that instance. Fight time?..short lived. The fish runs, you retrieve line when it stops to rest, not letting it rest...runs again, and maybe again, and the entire fight time is not that long..., landed allowed to revive before you release it, and good to go...no reason to not enjoy the fight by overpowering a fish. There was an experiment done one time, using a light leader on a flyrod tied to a scuba diver with fins in a swimming pool. The guy would flee towing several lbs of pressure, and when he would stop, several lbs of pressure would drag against the guy,..then he would run again, and the same resistance. In a fairly short time the guy was exhausted, just like happens to a fish.
I meant to say a 10 inch rainbow! What I think of when anglers yard a fish in is the grayling I guided anglers for once in awhile in Alaska when Salmon were not running, or just for a change. Beautiful environment, great fish that few ever get a chance to catch because they only exist in non polluted waters, and in virtually all of our lower 48 states there is enough pollution in the streams they can't exist anymore...but for a few river systems.
Anyway, the standard reaction was.."these worthless grayling...no fight at all, just crank them in." And that was because they all had heavy spinning gear for Salmon, or big rainbows. Lighter gear, let'um run, bring them in, and admire a great fish.
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Bass anglers land fish quickly because of the need to use heavy line, and heavier sticks fishing in heavy cover, and the need to pull fish out of that heavy cover. The thrill then, is not in the fight, but more on the hookup. When they lift fish out of the water skipping them across the surface, funny thing...the fish can't swim. A fly angler using lighter tippets can often do the same thing. Rather than allowing the fish to dive, and prolong the fight, they can often lift the fish to the surface, and keep it coming, rather than lowering the rod, and allowing the fish to dive. When we throw big flies to the banks pockets on the heavy current side of the river fishing out of driftboats, when we recognize a fish, say 15" or under, and we use 2x, or even bigger tippets, we call them "skippers"...skip that fish on the surface, get him in and released, and get your fly back out there...just like the bass guy. The ave. time was taken of tourney bass anglers to land a fish was timed, and it was 7 sec. to land a bass.
Landing a tarpon on a fly takes a skilled angler realizing how much pressure he can put on a rod. Most anglers have no idea, and never do apply the maximum pressure they could apply with the rod. My neighbor is a fly fishing tarpon guy that grew up in Florida. With his tarpon fly rod, he can pick up a 10 lb bucket of sand with the rod, and that is what kinda pressure he wants to apply to a tarpon to land it in a reasonable time, and release it.
The problem with not playing a fish to exhaustion is when the fish comes to hand they are often more difficult to subdue to get the hook out resulting in injuries from poor handling. It is almost a fine line you are walking. Do you play the fish out or do you aggressively subdue the fish in hand?
We should not have this discussion without mentioning nets. Over the past couple years I have become a proponent of using nets. It shortens the fight and they subdue the fish for an easy unhook.
This is an interesting subject. I tend to think that "playing" the fish into the boat would cause less overall shock to the fish and allow better recovery. The key is keeping the photoshoot to a minimum.
I purchased my first soft plastic hand net for small trout. So termed Catch and Release in 2007 only because tu pressured manufacturers into the design concept in 2005 which came finally into fruition.
buck ~ you are so right...
All good comments (except for the spam I nuked)... I'm all for playing fish... letting them run... in so far that doing so is essential to actually landing them. I use a net (rubber mesh), though I have a lot of friends who would argue that nets are more harm than good. What it comes down to for me is, when I watch an angler monkey around with a 15-inch trout for 10-minutes (with a reel that's essentially free-spooling), giddy as the fish streaks away, time after time after (unnecessary) time, I have to think: "C'mon man, enough is enough." Don't you?
so if i catch a trout on 130 pound mono and just walk up the bank until i land the fish would that count?
i agree with both buckhunter and Sayfu
If you want to get into the technical aspect of the whole thing, studies have shown, and the question then becomes can you believe the study?...that horsing in a fish as in applying pressure and bringing it in when it is fighting to run, creates more harm than good...lactic acid builds up greater in fish by "horsing it" than allowing it to run, and then retrieving line when it quits running.
I guided in Alaska, and an effort to bring a King Salmon to net was a less than enjoyable one from the aspect that "sports" that have seldom ever fought a big fish can't apply the necessary pressure, and technique to bring a King to net in a reasonable amount of time.
I will never advocate horsing trout for the sole purpose of easy hook removal later.
Florida tarpon, hello I'll not do it then either.
Washington State Halibut...I will do it then only because I need to put a bullet through his head just to get a 90 pounder in the Boston Whaler.
But I've watched TV guys for years growing up like Bill Dance, Jimmy Houston and Bubba this and Bubba that, yard bass out of the water and body slam them to the bottom of the boat. That's a quick catch but the end result release is death to the bass, in my opinion, due to internal organ damage. Now you've led by example Bubba, and the spawned anglers of this mind set are showing this generation and the next, how not to establish any chapter of "Bass Unlimited."
i tried to land a little 3' shark on a fly rod this morning on a fly rod, did not have time to fight it cuz i had to be at work at 8:00 so i tried strong arming him in... we my fly popped right out of his mouth.. so big props to the fisherman who could do what i couldn't this morning.
Let's don't be too down on the bass if he cannot swim when he is not in the water. Marlin are pretty game, but when a tournament angler backs down on them, they can be brought to the boat with astonishing quickness.
Say what?
Deeter, I'd like to ask the question: What is fly fishing. I'm not referring to the equipment, but how we go about it. I don't agree with fishing the lightest terminal tackle for an oversized fish or over sizing said tackle so you can horse a fish in. It's not sporting if you hook and rip a fish to hand IMHO. Know your waters and what the proper balance is. I don't see anything wrong with a bit of fight on the water.
fflutterffly, The proper playing of a fish is the way to go IMO..fish runs you let him run, and he runs against the lb. pressure of a bent rod. When he stops, you retrieve line and bring him in. How many runs can a freshwater fish make? King Salmon will demand you put considerable pressure, or it becomes a long, drawn out fight that didn't have to last that long if the angler knew how to apply proper pressure. I had kings circling the boat, recuperating to make another run, with a sport stomping all around the boat as I grabbed rods, and gear to keep them from breaking equipment, or hurting themselves who couldn't apply enough pressure to bring in the King. At dinner that night the sport would say, "that fish fought me for at least an hour", and then someone else would say, "we only caught 5 Kings today." And the proper fly rod in the right hands can whip virtually any game fish as well as a spinning, or a bait casting rod.
kirkdeeter, If you got down to the specifics of fighting a fish, you would know how much lbs of pressure your rod is applying to a fish at what angle you are holding the rod. You would know how much pressure in comparison to how strong your line is...pertaining to fly fishing, how strong your tippet is at the knot. Many anglers simply fish a lot, and learn how to fight fish. Gary Borger, or maybe Jason, but I think it was Gary, addressed this subject in scientific terms many years ago. There was a clock face composed around the angler, and the angles of the rod displayed on the clock face. As I remember, the rod held at 60% provided the maximum pressure applied by the rod. That is where the butt of the rod comes into play at its maximum. More than that, and the pressure applied by the butt is reduced, and the finer diameter tip comes into play putting less pressure on the fish. If you applied rod pressure against a scale you could determine that. Knowing your equipment is a big key. That is why the tarpon guy, who has to apply maximum pressure because of the size, and fight on the fish, knows how much lbs of pressure he is applying....at least the good ones do.
Sayfu you said it all much better than I implied. Exactly. There is nothing wrong with fighting a fish when it runs. Do it with the right equipment. Where do you fish? What species is dominate? I like your answer.
Deeter More nukes. Maybe if you're program could automatically delete a post with 3 or more negatives.
i can land a fish kinda fast but really depends on how big the fish is .
I agree with you, Deeter. Land 'em fast. I horse most of the fish I catch and release them quickly. I think part of the reason that people "let 'em run" so often is that they don't realize just how little actual pressure that fish is exerting on that 5x tippet.
yrs-
Evan!
ejunk, If a fish runs, and you horse'um in, you have to fish out of another boat, not mine. When a fish runs, he is exhausting himself pulling against the bend in your rod, and the lbs. of pressure being applied as he runs. A most dangerous time for a netter, which is often ME, is to lower your head putting the net in the water, and the fish dives on another run, and the angler "horses"! If you do not lower the rod, and let the fish make another run, the netter has a good chance of getting a lure in the face, or a fly, whatever you are using. And you have no time to react to it.
Kudos to the Spam Assassin, although my Spam related comment above does not make sense now.
a fair point, sayfu, but I don't have a "netter" other than my own right hand (or a boat to fish out of, for that matter). and for the sake of brevity, I didn't get into the exceptions - ie, big fish. I'm talking sub 16" trout here, which is probably what most fly fisherman catch most of the time. get them in, unhook them, let them go, and keep fishing. it's not difficult, it's not dangerous, and there is no need to let a 12" rainbow trout run other than to feed the angler's ego.
yrs-
Evan!
OK, you got it, but I am still not of that conviction. I caught a 10 rainbow recently out of a riffle on my 4wt. using a small dry fly, 4x tippet, and that fish took all my flyline, and about 20ft of my backing...jumped, jumped, jumped, one of the highlights of my summer, and I caught a lot of fish, and many much bigger. I held up my rod, put a good bend in it, and the fish had to be pulling against 1 lb. of pressure, and still got all my flyline. There is no need to overpower fish, and yard them in. As I mentioned in an earlier post, you can stress a fish out much worse overpowering them when they want to run. Lactic acid builds up greater in that instance. Fight time?..short lived. The fish runs, you retrieve line when it stops to rest, not letting it rest...runs again, and maybe again, and the entire fight time is not that long..., landed allowed to revive before you release it, and good to go...no reason to not enjoy the fight by overpowering a fish. There was an experiment done one time, using a light leader on a flyrod tied to a scuba diver with fins in a swimming pool. The guy would flee towing several lbs of pressure, and when he would stop, several lbs of pressure would drag against the guy,..then he would run again, and the same resistance. In a fairly short time the guy was exhausted, just like happens to a fish.
I meant to say a 10 inch rainbow! What I think of when anglers yard a fish in is the grayling I guided anglers for once in awhile in Alaska when Salmon were not running, or just for a change. Beautiful environment, great fish that few ever get a chance to catch because they only exist in non polluted waters, and in virtually all of our lower 48 states there is enough pollution in the streams they can't exist anymore...but for a few river systems.
Anyway, the standard reaction was.."these worthless grayling...no fight at all, just crank them in." And that was because they all had heavy spinning gear for Salmon, or big rainbows. Lighter gear, let'um run, bring them in, and admire a great fish.
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