My take is that what pushes away others trying to get into the sport is the mentality us fly fishermen tend to have. Somebody pulls out a photo of a great trout and when you ask them what it came on and they reveal a San Juan did the trick you snicker. Don't comment "Oh, I fished on top all day" The root of this sport is trying to imitate a food item with fur and feather. If you don't like "bobbers" don't fish them, but don't judge those around you that do. In terms of a guide, they try to judge what the client wants out of the day, it may involve nymphing to a dozen trout,or drifting a dry to a native single fish. No matter how hard they try, they aren't going to be able to read everyone correctly. Just because one person finds great satisfaction in throwing a perfect loop to a rising trout doesn't mean that is the only satisfaction there is to be had in the sport.

I disagree with this and here is why: if you stick to the water that you can reach and high stick or tight line that same double nymph rig, it's just as effective (assuming you're using the right flies). all the indicator does is open up more water and dumb it down slightly. it's also less tiring, I guess.

and seriously now, "bobber fishing" is a bit strong. it's not like two nymphs and an indicator are some magic ticket to fish. you still have to cast that monstrosity and get the drift right. it's a far cry from a mealworm on a hook under a bobber in a farm pond.

lastly - have you ever tried to fish one of those old timey wet fly rigs? 4 or 5 large, garish wet flies strung together and swung through the current? that method can be pretty deadly, too, and thanks to the size and color of a lot of those traditional wets, you can watch it all happen. it's 1/8th of a step from indicator fishing, at best, and it's about 100 years older, to boot.

personally, I fish a dry fly whenever possible, but an indicator is just one more tool in my fly box that I'll sometimes use if the situation warrants. If you really want to criticize an angler, criticize him/her for never trying anything new. how boring is that?

yrs-
Evan!

The attitude you display in your writing is why lots of people don't like fly fishing. Fly fishing may be about "complex currents and hatching insects, traditions and techniques" for you but for many anglers it is about catching fish. Also about the beauty of rivers, the complexity of ecosystems, the life cycles of insects etc. but essentially about catching fish. Because you have chosen to emphasize less tangible, intellectual dimensions of the sport doesn't give you the right to denigrate the actions and efforts of people who fly fish to you know, catch fish, even if it means using a tiny bit of orange putty on the line to help them detect strikes.
I suppose if a client asked a guide to teach him dry fly fishing and he refused you might call him lazy. Most of the times I hired a guide it was so he would take me out to catch a bunch of fish. When I wanted to learn how to dry fly fish I asked my buddies and also took lessons.So it wouldn't take away from the time we spent on the river when we were there to catch fish. I think that people would think a lot more of fly fishing if they saw it as just another really fun way to catch fish and didn't have to worry about people giving them grief for how they were fishing.
So the next time you are standing in complex currents musing on whether to fish a #20 or #22 midge on a hand-tied gut leader, silk tippet and split bamboo 2 weight, remember that the guy in the next pool with the box store combo and a wad of orange on his line is there to catch some fish and have a great time doing it. Nothing stupid about that.

You're right Koldkut, I wrestle with that. I guess where I am now is that simple is great when you're starting... but a guide who just slings bobbers all day... that's just lazy.

I would venture to say anyone who has hired a guide and paid the costs of such a trip is happily willing to use an indicator and spend 4-8 hours catching fish rather than learn on the fly how to detect a strike for a period of that time for a slow day. I would also make the arguement that using indicators PROMOTE learning. There are so many intricate details to fly fishing, especially when going in blind to a new region with new entomology. An indicator helps a fisherman (at any level) to quickly evaluate what is successful w/o worrying about whether they are missing strikes. I know I'm in that middle ground of knowing enough to be dangerous, as they say, and like using an idicator because it allows me to find out quickly whether my prince nymph is doing the trick, or whether I should tie on a hare's ear, or adjust my depth (another benefit, can detect if you're on the bottom or not) or whatever w/o second guessing whether the fish are taking it and I am just missing it since I haven't honed that skill. So I don't think it's snobbery or something one should be ashamed of...but do think it shallows out the learning curve and helps promote learning rather than inducing frustration.

I know a few very good fly guys..guys that teach the sport of fly fishing that think a meal worm on a hook is a great past time, and fish that way from time to time..peace of mind, solitude, relaxing..it's all good. I enjoy it myself. And they use one of those .25cent red and white clip on bobbers as an essential part of their terminal tackle.

deeter and buckhunter - I still disagree. in the absence of a guide holding your hand and telling you where to drift an indicator/double nymph rig, that style of fishing is NOT easy and requires practice, patience and most of the same skills that an accomplished fly fisherman has at his disposal. you're wrong about this - indicator fishing is still fly fishing.

not everybody takes the same path - not everybody learns the same way and not everybody ends up in the same place. fly fishing is a journey, not a race. again, as I said earlier, fishing ONLY that way (or only ANY way) is silly and deserves to be poked fun at, but no one method rises above another.

yrs-
Evan!

I don't care either way, but you sure won't see me using them in most cases....You seem to like to ride the line of do, don't on the ease of entry and success into this niche of fishing.

tkbone, the snobbiest guys on the water have indicators......

Exactly buckhunter.

Hey, how come no one has mentioned the various ways indicaters can be used? Most of the discussion has focused on indicaters as "bobbers" but there are other applications as well( bottom bouncing comes to mind). Or an indy a couple feet away from a minute dry? What about the "curly" used by Euro anglers, technically an indicater? Dry/dropper makes the dry an indicater of sorts, too. I like to fish dries, sometimes to a fault, but I don't think it's good for fly fishing to get too dogmatic.

Indicator fly fishing is fly fishing and it is not a dumbed down version of the sport we love. When I was taught to fly fish I was taught to do it with a dry fly and as I flailed away catching a few dinks, my buddy/instructor, was puling hogs out on a double nymph rig. My point is, he made it clear that I had to be a really good caster and really be able to control my loop if I wanted to fish with such a set up. Now when I hit the water I always start out on top and if I can't get them there but I know they are in there then I rig up the nymphs, how is that any different than matching the hatch? I'm giving the fish what they want. I have several hard core dry fly friends who would never fish a nymph and we've agreed to disagree on the subject. I am just as intellectually challenged by enticing a strike on the top or on the bottom.

Kirk,

I hear where your coming from. As a guide myself instruction comes first for all my clients. However, there comes a time when instruction and lack of fish to the net works against you with your clients and can turn them off from the sport just as much. That's why especially with beginners, I allow them to fish dry flies, nymph rigs, and streamers during the day. That way they get a glimpse of the big picture of the sport of fly fishing.

Unfortunately where I live, hatching bugs in densities conducive to dry fly fishing isn't always available during the year or on certain trout water. Furthermore, because of this, it's important for me to teach my clients how to nymph fish properly so they can still catch fish when the adult bugs aren't out and about. If the fish are looking down you better fishing down, you know?

In conclusion, it's important for beginners in the sport to learn all methods of fly fishing. Doing so will make them a more rounded fly angler.

Kent Klewein

Amen. Really, who doesn't love watching a fish rise two feet off the bottom just to slam that size 16 setter/deer/cigarette butt fly that you tied up last night?

Tkbone, to add......at least here in Colorado.

"This is supposed to be a fascinating intellectual challenge."

It's not necessarily supposed to be. Fly fishing, like any fishing is whatever one wants it to be. It also doesn't have the monopoly on intellectuality (or whatever). Don't tell me John Merwin (among countless others) isn't intellectual about his fishing even if he's "being lazy" with "cheater gear". It's intellectual as much as one wants it to be. The point is that people need to get into at least some kind of fishing no matter what "the elites" (take that as a compliment) think of the technique. As long as they are enjoying and understanding the resource, I'm happy.

Bio 101 is pretty mindless too, but you still have to take it before you can take Entomology 403.

"it's a far cry from a mealworm on a hook under a bobber in a farm pond."

It is? I think it's about the same...

the harder you work, the greater the reward. I've still never been fly fishing, but that doesn't sound half as fun. My first introduction to the existence of fly fishing was reading Zane Grey, and thats the feel I'm hoping to capture when I get out there this spring. none of this instant success. i wouldn't say its dogmatic, but tradition is a part of our heritage.

ejunk,

Indicator fishing is most definitely fly fishing. No argument here. In fact, fishing is fishing. I love it all.

I think Deeter loves to share his passion of fly fishing with others and only wishes for everyone to enjoy all it has to offer.

Casting an indicator is no fun for me. Especially if you have a big bead nymph in your combo rig. I won't judge others, but I don't want to swinging that around. I use the hint that was discussed months ago here. 18" of Amnesia line between my leader and fly line. Grease/silicon the end of your line and the Amnesia line. Re-grease as needed. Watch for the Amnesia line to tick or submerge and set the hook. Not getting deep enough? Add some tippet or more weight.

I agree MMiller. I really dont like catching small fish myself. I Only fishing Steelies, and Salmon which spawn around where I live. I dont like Strike Indicators because I have noticed the fish seem to run away from them when they have had about 200 different colors thrown at them for 2 months. I found out watching My dad for about twenty years. He lands more fish than anybody I have seen before. He just uses Plain hook with a tiny peace of lead. hollow core. thats it. Every once and a while if the river has a little bit of mud from run off. He will put maybe a little egg. Thats only in the early run. but I could see why people would use Indicators for dry fly fishing. I love Wet Flies. Keep your line tight. MOre Fish!

Something else to think about when using an indicator.

I've lost a number of large fish recently when they broke tippets up to 3x flouro. Earlier this year I was hooking and landing large trout, and all of a sudden I couldn't do it.

What changed? I believe two things are causing my problems. First (physics thing) I switched from a 5-wt rig to a 7-wt rig. Not only is the rod stiffer but there is a greater moment of inertia on the 7-wt reel. AND I started using a Thingamabobber indicator, handy but they have a good deal of resistance when a rampaging trout drags them through the water. So, and I'm not sure of the main cause yet, all of these things stack up to create a good deal of force on the tippet when a large trout tries to shake the fly loose.

My belief is that some indicators may make it tougher to land the large trout it helps you to catch.