


January 30, 2009
Homeless Man Jailed for Steelhead Poaching
As reported by David Sneed in the San Luis Obispo (California) Tribune...
"A 23-year old transient was sentenced to 10 days in jail on Wednesday for catching and cooking a federally protected steelhead. Victor Manuel Silva was convicted of illegally taking and posessing wildlife..."
Okay, I know, somebody out there is feeling sorry for the guy... he's hungry, he got busted... at least he'll get three hots and a cot during his 10 days in the clink. But on the other hand, the story goes on to explain that when the game warden arrived on scene, she found three or four men camped out, cooking the steelhead with sliced lemon and a loaf of sourdough bread. No word on whether they had a nice sauvignon blanc as well, and there's no confirmation that one of the men said, "Wow, tastes kind of like bald eagle..." There's also nothing on what the guy used to catch the fish, but I'm pretty darn sure it wasn't a green-butt skunk.
It's really not funny; the fish was an egg-carrying female of an extremely threatened strain of steelhead. "Each fish really counts," Department of Fish and Game Lieutentant Dean Hileman is quoted in the story. "We are talking about a species that is so critical that some subspecies are in danger of going extinct."
So here's the question. Should these laws and enforcement stay this tough or get tougher... did the penalty fit the crime? Or, considering that people have already all but obliterated the species through development, pollution, habitat destruction and so forth, is this kind of like handing the bill for everyone's collective ignorance over the past century to a homeless man? Your call...
Deeter
Comments (28)
If dude was homeless, I think 10 days in the pokey is more help than punishment. Did he actually know what type of fish he was catching, or was he too hungry to care? Were the other guys homeless? Where did the lemon and the bread come from?
I think if you're truly homeless and going hungry (starving) then I belive being charged with poaching is overkill. But that's just me.
Were I in a similar situation, I'd still be polite about it:
"Look Mr.Game Warden, I know you're just doin' yr duty. You can arrest me when I'm finished eating."
Keep the laws tough. They obviously don't deter poaching as is, and we all know that some people will weasel their way around the laws. Wildlife NEEDS protection, and these guys seem to know what they are doing. Bust 'em. I know times could be getting tough, but poaching is not right, either. There's plenty of ways to make a couple of bucks.
It's hard to meaningfully punish someone who has nothing to lose. Ten days, twenty days, with enough jail time he could pick up some other skill like burglary or auto-theft. In this case, I'd say the punishment fits the crime. If he repeats, longer sentence.
If he's an illegal immigrant, deport him after prosecuting him, and bill the Mexican Consulate for the transportation, the fish, and the poaching fine.
I bet if you or I got caught with the fish we wouldn’t have been sentenced to 10 days in jail – we probably would’ve received something far less. He probably got 10 days because he has some prior offenses, plus he didn’t put up any kind of fuss with a good lawyer. As M. Diehl says, it’s doubtful he had much to lose.
That said, I’m guessing the punishment fit the crime. But your second point - about where the real causes of the steelhead decline come from, and how to address those crimes - are personally more meaningful to me.
Dude - it was a steelhead! This guy should have had his fingernails pulled as well - homeless or not. What ever happened to dumpster diving?
If he poached a carp I bet the warden would have shook his hand. Why does everyone have to make such a stink when we are really playing god when we choose one fish over another.
Woodstock, I'd say if you or I got caught doing that we'd get a big fine on top of the 10 days because we could afford it. Ya can't get blood from a turnip, so he got off easy.
As far as the bald eagle comment, we just had two killed and desecrated a few miles from me. Cons. officers are hoping for a tip.
Maybe if he hadn't eaten a female FULL of eggs, he would of got less.
Naturally, no one wants to see steelies go away, but to break this down ask yourselves this.
You're starving. It's winter. Your life may depend on the strength you get from food. The only thing you can get your hands on is a steelhead. Even if you knew it was protected, given the circumstances would you care?
I'm not saying I agree or disagree or that there's a right or wrong answer. Just playing Devil's advocate.
I'll even take it further. You're striper fishing and catch a short. Homeless man appears on the beach begging for it. He hasn't eaten in weeks. He's almost crying he wants it so bad. What would you do?
Yea, there is a fair argument in this, but i say an illegal fish is an illegal fish, he got off easy.
That one steelhead today could have been 100 steelhead in the future. You're not allowed to rob banks because you're hungry.
OK - you're homeless. You wanna eat. Again, I ask: a) what about dumpster diving? Getting a job might be an idea too, but said homeless guy was obviously too busy fishing/poaching to do so.
if we are going to be held accountable for our actions, then so should the homeless. he didn't have a liscence so it doesn't matter what kind of fish it was. there are shelters that feed these people.
I feel sorry for the guy, and yes he broke the law. So the punishment fits the crime. Now with that being said, if the state had any common sense, they would ask "why is he homeless?" and then try to help him. But unfortunately these state run agencies are run off money and politics, so the guy goes homeless and they'll make him a convict because he was hungry.
Having been in his shoes before, less the criminal arrest and conviction, I found that if you are starving and your fellow man can care less about you to even help you off the street, then the laws set forth by the same fellow man will no longer apply, as the only law that has any precidence is the law of survival.
Make him do the time, then send him up to WA state where you HAVE to kill the hatchery steelhead you catch. They call them "Konkers". How about that crap?
Ok I think the punishment fits the crime. Also in response to Blacknblu's dumpster diving comment. I work at a grocery store and let me tell you that dumpster diving is alive and well. We always have people dumpster diving, some homless and some not
The guy had lemon and sourdough bread. He planned the crime. He got what he deserved. An endangered fish is not a carp. Punishments like this sets examples for others.
I would prefer the State of California had the criminal spend 10 days picking up trash out of the river or working in a hatchery.
I feel for the guy being homeless, but he did break the law and if he is truely homeless how did he get the lemon and bread. Sounds like he may have used the homeless bit to try and get away with it,
He did kill a protected fish, he should pay for it, as stated above he should be put on roadside duty cleaning up the area or doing something to give back to the area.
he should have at least confirmed to someone to see if it was legal
Poaching is not the prefered method for cooking wild endangered steelhead
Smoking, grilling, or broiling are all appropriate methods
but poaching?
thats criminal
Also, Dude
homless man is not the preferred nomenclature.
housing deficient, please.
I am sure the tens days of jail was due to lack of funds to pay the normal fine. We all say if he is homeless to pick yourself up and get a job. Lets remember people with college degrees and 15 years experience are having a hard time gettin work these days. As to dumpster diving if your going to do it go for a place with the good stuff, like a bakery with a nice sourdough. After all homelessness is no excuse for bad taste in dining.
The case does have some philosphical aspects. Are we more concerned about a species that is on the brink because of human development(people with homes and and the places they work) or people living on the streets in conditions most of us can't imagine. This is not to say the homeless and impoverished should be able to break laws at will, its just something to think about.
I would like to know how he caught this fish.If he caught that particular fish why not many non endangered species that are in abundance,that could have given him and his dinner companions a feast. As for the punishment maybe it should have been worse. We dont live in a perfect society,and laws are laws. The enviroment is all we have we need to take care of it.
Without nature man will never survive,but nature without man will live.
Ramcatt, I see your logic. With the facts we have, I now think I should have described the offense as grilling... it was poaching-grilling. Now, poaching-poaching, well, that might have been worth 20 days.
Well, if he'd poached and poached it, it would have been better than turning it into a poached mousse. [ducking now! ;) ]
Tougher punishments. There is no excuse for that kind of fish. Take a more popular one.
Nate
Get a job? Most of the homeless people I see wouldn't be able to get in the front door to be able to ask for a job, much less be given one.
As they say in the military, wath are the lessons learned, next time have a stout stick or a rock ready to smack the game warden over the head with.
Punishment fits. Also the local enforcement agencies should maybe educate a little more if possible. If every transient decides to have a gourmet lunch every now and then, then they need to be able to handle bologna and cheese when they go to jail.
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It's hard to meaningfully punish someone who has nothing to lose. Ten days, twenty days, with enough jail time he could pick up some other skill like burglary or auto-theft. In this case, I'd say the punishment fits the crime. If he repeats, longer sentence.
If he's an illegal immigrant, deport him after prosecuting him, and bill the Mexican Consulate for the transportation, the fish, and the poaching fine.
Naturally, no one wants to see steelies go away, but to break this down ask yourselves this.
You're starving. It's winter. Your life may depend on the strength you get from food. The only thing you can get your hands on is a steelhead. Even if you knew it was protected, given the circumstances would you care?
I'm not saying I agree or disagree or that there's a right or wrong answer. Just playing Devil's advocate.
I'll even take it further. You're striper fishing and catch a short. Homeless man appears on the beach begging for it. He hasn't eaten in weeks. He's almost crying he wants it so bad. What would you do?
Poaching is not the prefered method for cooking wild endangered steelhead
Smoking, grilling, or broiling are all appropriate methods
but poaching?
thats criminal
I am sure the tens days of jail was due to lack of funds to pay the normal fine. We all say if he is homeless to pick yourself up and get a job. Lets remember people with college degrees and 15 years experience are having a hard time gettin work these days. As to dumpster diving if your going to do it go for a place with the good stuff, like a bakery with a nice sourdough. After all homelessness is no excuse for bad taste in dining.
The case does have some philosphical aspects. Are we more concerned about a species that is on the brink because of human development(people with homes and and the places they work) or people living on the streets in conditions most of us can't imagine. This is not to say the homeless and impoverished should be able to break laws at will, its just something to think about.
Ramcatt, I see your logic. With the facts we have, I now think I should have described the offense as grilling... it was poaching-grilling. Now, poaching-poaching, well, that might have been worth 20 days.
Well, if he'd poached and poached it, it would have been better than turning it into a poached mousse. [ducking now! ;) ]
Keep the laws tough. They obviously don't deter poaching as is, and we all know that some people will weasel their way around the laws. Wildlife NEEDS protection, and these guys seem to know what they are doing. Bust 'em. I know times could be getting tough, but poaching is not right, either. There's plenty of ways to make a couple of bucks.
I bet if you or I got caught with the fish we wouldn’t have been sentenced to 10 days in jail – we probably would’ve received something far less. He probably got 10 days because he has some prior offenses, plus he didn’t put up any kind of fuss with a good lawyer. As M. Diehl says, it’s doubtful he had much to lose.
That said, I’m guessing the punishment fit the crime. But your second point - about where the real causes of the steelhead decline come from, and how to address those crimes - are personally more meaningful to me.
Yea, there is a fair argument in this, but i say an illegal fish is an illegal fish, he got off easy.
That one steelhead today could have been 100 steelhead in the future. You're not allowed to rob banks because you're hungry.
I feel for the guy being homeless, but he did break the law and if he is truely homeless how did he get the lemon and bread. Sounds like he may have used the homeless bit to try and get away with it,
He did kill a protected fish, he should pay for it, as stated above he should be put on roadside duty cleaning up the area or doing something to give back to the area.
Also, Dude
homless man is not the preferred nomenclature.
housing deficient, please.
Tougher punishments. There is no excuse for that kind of fish. Take a more popular one.
Nate
Get a job? Most of the homeless people I see wouldn't be able to get in the front door to be able to ask for a job, much less be given one.
As they say in the military, wath are the lessons learned, next time have a stout stick or a rock ready to smack the game warden over the head with.
Punishment fits. Also the local enforcement agencies should maybe educate a little more if possible. If every transient decides to have a gourmet lunch every now and then, then they need to be able to handle bologna and cheese when they go to jail.
Dude - it was a steelhead! This guy should have had his fingernails pulled as well - homeless or not. What ever happened to dumpster diving?
Woodstock, I'd say if you or I got caught doing that we'd get a big fine on top of the 10 days because we could afford it. Ya can't get blood from a turnip, so he got off easy.
As far as the bald eagle comment, we just had two killed and desecrated a few miles from me. Cons. officers are hoping for a tip.
Maybe if he hadn't eaten a female FULL of eggs, he would of got less.
if we are going to be held accountable for our actions, then so should the homeless. he didn't have a liscence so it doesn't matter what kind of fish it was. there are shelters that feed these people.
I feel sorry for the guy, and yes he broke the law. So the punishment fits the crime. Now with that being said, if the state had any common sense, they would ask "why is he homeless?" and then try to help him. But unfortunately these state run agencies are run off money and politics, so the guy goes homeless and they'll make him a convict because he was hungry.
Having been in his shoes before, less the criminal arrest and conviction, I found that if you are starving and your fellow man can care less about you to even help you off the street, then the laws set forth by the same fellow man will no longer apply, as the only law that has any precidence is the law of survival.
Make him do the time, then send him up to WA state where you HAVE to kill the hatchery steelhead you catch. They call them "Konkers". How about that crap?
Ok I think the punishment fits the crime. Also in response to Blacknblu's dumpster diving comment. I work at a grocery store and let me tell you that dumpster diving is alive and well. We always have people dumpster diving, some homless and some not
The guy had lemon and sourdough bread. He planned the crime. He got what he deserved. An endangered fish is not a carp. Punishments like this sets examples for others.
I would prefer the State of California had the criminal spend 10 days picking up trash out of the river or working in a hatchery.
he should have at least confirmed to someone to see if it was legal
I would like to know how he caught this fish.If he caught that particular fish why not many non endangered species that are in abundance,that could have given him and his dinner companions a feast. As for the punishment maybe it should have been worse. We dont live in a perfect society,and laws are laws. The enviroment is all we have we need to take care of it.
Without nature man will never survive,but nature without man will live.
If dude was homeless, I think 10 days in the pokey is more help than punishment. Did he actually know what type of fish he was catching, or was he too hungry to care? Were the other guys homeless? Where did the lemon and the bread come from?
I think if you're truly homeless and going hungry (starving) then I belive being charged with poaching is overkill. But that's just me.
Were I in a similar situation, I'd still be polite about it:
"Look Mr.Game Warden, I know you're just doin' yr duty. You can arrest me when I'm finished eating."
If he poached a carp I bet the warden would have shook his hand. Why does everyone have to make such a stink when we are really playing god when we choose one fish over another.
OK - you're homeless. You wanna eat. Again, I ask: a) what about dumpster diving? Getting a job might be an idea too, but said homeless guy was obviously too busy fishing/poaching to do so.
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