


March 05, 2009
Utah Rivers: Free For All?
By Tim Romano

Quite literally... It's been a free for all on access rights the past couple of days in the Utah house of representatives. Tuesday the house gave sportsman, anglers, and environmentalists a victory by defeating a measure (HB187) that would have seriously limited access to rivers on private land. The bill was introduced after Ben Ferry (R-Corrine) sponsored the measure in response to a 2008 ruling by the supreme court that says all stream-beds were open to the public.
It seemed to be a sign that even a small grass roots movement can actually have a impact. Showing up on the House's step's in waders and protest signs might even help the cause. Check out photos here.
Oh, but wait... Yesterday after what seems like some back room shenanigans the bill was resurrected again and will have to be voted on again potentially limiting access to some rivers.
Seems to me that a river is no one's property. If anglers and boaters are respectful and float and wade on through your property, so what. How would you feel if you'd been given the access to every river in your state only to have it potentially taken away the very next day?
TR
Comments (14)
Why would they reintroduce it? That's stupid, if it's defeated, then it's defeated the next day too.
Nate
@60256: it's a common strategy among anti-freedom fanatics to keep reintroducing an unpopular, anti-freedom, idiotic bill, on the theory that the opposition will wilt from fatigue or will be looking the other way when the fanatics try again.
Freeeeeeeedom!
Again, changing the laws to change who owns what is a bad idea. It if was public it should generally stay public, if it was private it should stay private.
And if you tube down a river that goes through a cattle ranch and go on shore and get gored by the bull, that's your problem.
Utah folks will now enjoy the same basic right to their rivers and streams that Montanans have. if they are respectful and smart and stay below the high water mark this year, they will do wonders toward stopping the legislation from being reintroduced.
I think they should look back at the supreme court case Gibbons v. Ogden. This ruling stated that interstate waterways are not the property of either state, but the national government. Therefore, neither state can regulate commerce on that particular river. The same principle can be applied in this case. No one man can control a particular river, it is the people's. Now it is a different story if it is a pond he built and stocked on his property, then i believe that if he wants people to fish on it he will invite them.
Seems that if this has already been ruled on by the supreme court of the state it could go back and be overturned if the proponent of this bill manage to get it thru on the second try. Hopefully it won;t go that far and the people of Utah can block this from happening in the first place.
Sounds like they got the same problem out West as we do in the South dang carpet-baggers buying up property thinking they own everything they see.
As sportsmen we may all be getting progessively more screwed. Democrats want to control gun rights and the Republicans want to take away public land/water access.
Not surprising, probably introduced by a politician who didn't like seeing someone wading through their picturesque landscape view form the back yard. Reminds me of the King of the Hill episode where the Hill family went to help the inlaws with the cattle run, and the Hollywood landowner wouldn't let them use a pass, so they raqn the cattle through town, upsetting the other hollywood types. Maybe that's what we need to do, divert the water down through the streets because the landowners won't let us wader the rivers and streams that were considered public property under this new bill.
Sound silly, but may become a reality.
Mike Diehl is right fanatics will try again to pass a bill if they think the opposition is looking the other way. Just look at HB 45. It was defeated in the past, but with new help, it is being tried again. More and more signs of socialism everyday.
Waterways are part of the Magna Carta! They belong to the people. You can't dam water above property lines that interferers with waterways of others, why should the people of a state be denied because water happens to pass through your land. Don't take credit for what circumstance made possible. Be respectful, close gates, pick up trash; we are all together in keeping the land and water secure and abundant.
YES!! I am very excited at the bill's defeat. Hopefully the resurrected bill will be defeated as well.
Although my situation is not nearly as serious as yours I can sympathize with your feelings. A friend of mine lives in a local subdivision in our town. This subdivision is located on a golf course that has many small ponds. This time of year we like to go out there in the afternoon and cast a few lines to try and catch some bass. Just yesterday a lady came flying out of her house yelling at us that she owned this pond we were fishing in. Not only were we a good 80 yards from her house, but there was also around 20 other houses on the pond. No way did she own that pond. She proceeded to call the cops on us and we were asked to leave. All that for some innocent fishing? RIDICULUOS
Just came from the Moldy Chum website, the second bill was voted down by an even larger majority. they said that there was a whole lot more e-mails and calls opposing the bill the second time around.
I really wish Colorado had a law like this, but it will never happen here. There is way too much of a private property rights community, and also a private property rights legislation to ever pass something like that. I'd sure be in support if it were ever on the docket though...
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@60256: it's a common strategy among anti-freedom fanatics to keep reintroducing an unpopular, anti-freedom, idiotic bill, on the theory that the opposition will wilt from fatigue or will be looking the other way when the fanatics try again.
Mike Diehl is right fanatics will try again to pass a bill if they think the opposition is looking the other way. Just look at HB 45. It was defeated in the past, but with new help, it is being tried again. More and more signs of socialism everyday.
Why would they reintroduce it? That's stupid, if it's defeated, then it's defeated the next day too.
Nate
Freeeeeeeedom!
Again, changing the laws to change who owns what is a bad idea. It if was public it should generally stay public, if it was private it should stay private.
And if you tube down a river that goes through a cattle ranch and go on shore and get gored by the bull, that's your problem.
Utah folks will now enjoy the same basic right to their rivers and streams that Montanans have. if they are respectful and smart and stay below the high water mark this year, they will do wonders toward stopping the legislation from being reintroduced.
I think they should look back at the supreme court case Gibbons v. Ogden. This ruling stated that interstate waterways are not the property of either state, but the national government. Therefore, neither state can regulate commerce on that particular river. The same principle can be applied in this case. No one man can control a particular river, it is the people's. Now it is a different story if it is a pond he built and stocked on his property, then i believe that if he wants people to fish on it he will invite them.
Seems that if this has already been ruled on by the supreme court of the state it could go back and be overturned if the proponent of this bill manage to get it thru on the second try. Hopefully it won;t go that far and the people of Utah can block this from happening in the first place.
Sounds like they got the same problem out West as we do in the South dang carpet-baggers buying up property thinking they own everything they see.
As sportsmen we may all be getting progessively more screwed. Democrats want to control gun rights and the Republicans want to take away public land/water access.
Not surprising, probably introduced by a politician who didn't like seeing someone wading through their picturesque landscape view form the back yard. Reminds me of the King of the Hill episode where the Hill family went to help the inlaws with the cattle run, and the Hollywood landowner wouldn't let them use a pass, so they raqn the cattle through town, upsetting the other hollywood types. Maybe that's what we need to do, divert the water down through the streets because the landowners won't let us wader the rivers and streams that were considered public property under this new bill.
Sound silly, but may become a reality.
Waterways are part of the Magna Carta! They belong to the people. You can't dam water above property lines that interferers with waterways of others, why should the people of a state be denied because water happens to pass through your land. Don't take credit for what circumstance made possible. Be respectful, close gates, pick up trash; we are all together in keeping the land and water secure and abundant.
YES!! I am very excited at the bill's defeat. Hopefully the resurrected bill will be defeated as well.
Although my situation is not nearly as serious as yours I can sympathize with your feelings. A friend of mine lives in a local subdivision in our town. This subdivision is located on a golf course that has many small ponds. This time of year we like to go out there in the afternoon and cast a few lines to try and catch some bass. Just yesterday a lady came flying out of her house yelling at us that she owned this pond we were fishing in. Not only were we a good 80 yards from her house, but there was also around 20 other houses on the pond. No way did she own that pond. She proceeded to call the cops on us and we were asked to leave. All that for some innocent fishing? RIDICULUOS
Just came from the Moldy Chum website, the second bill was voted down by an even larger majority. they said that there was a whole lot more e-mails and calls opposing the bill the second time around.
I really wish Colorado had a law like this, but it will never happen here. There is way too much of a private property rights community, and also a private property rights legislation to ever pass something like that. I'd sure be in support if it were ever on the docket though...
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