I believe Kelly has it all the way. If your trying to slide some nymphs through a run, you made it happen with your cast, mend, and subtle movements. Kelly's streamer tactics make it happen. It's about making any meal act irresistible, IMO.

I always keep my streamers darting around or swinging, but I admit, I tend to dead drift my nymphs and dries almost w/o exception. Definitely something to consider especially when the usual isn't getting results.

Even a dead drift is still done actively if you are making a conscious decision about exactly where you want the fly to be in relation to the fish, the current, the line, and the rod. What kills you is when you just toss the fly out on the water and hope for the best without using your head at all.

And here is what I am talkin'bout. Anglers just mentioned the need to give a streamer action...but now? In my cold water you had better know that fish do not move very far to take your streamer that you stripped away from them and put "action" on the streamer. Dead drifting a streamer where say the marabou tail moved in the current is far more productive than putting "action" on the streamer...So it gets down to where can I find fish given the water temp, and what kind of presentation do I make given the water temp?

No nitpicking...understand the basic premise I made. You have to be able to cast, and present the fly, but the bigger challenge is to understand the trout, and where he is located according to what is going on, especially the temp of the water. That is the bigger chore. Gallup was a long time guide in Michigan, and he accepted the challenge, and often fished for trophy browns sometimes taking good anglers that could cast well, and getting NOTHING all day! Maybe a follow by a big brown, and that was their excitement. But he accepted the challenge, and knew his quarry well. Most on this thread won't even accept the challeng of being a good caster.

johnm...You can not have it both ways Bud! Anglers flock to listen to guys like Gallup. They pack the show demo rooms to find out how to catch big trout on a fly. They even read Deeter's journals. And then guys like you, and there are a lot of you that post comments, like..."I'm not out there to catch fish. I just want the out of body experience, getting away from people,a nd being in the wild." Please! I guided for many years, and those "out of body experience guys" wanted to catch fish! I couldn't even get a lot of them to look around and see the things in the environment I would point out!

I am constantly learning new things and doing all these things you mention. I do find them fun and that is, in fact, really the main reason I enjoy fishing. I am not an "out of body experience guy" but I'm also not going to let the amount or size of fish I catch, or the cost of the rod I'm using determine wether or not I have fun. If someone wants to go out and enjoy themselves without worrying about catching fish on their cheap rod, it doesn't affect anyone else, so more power to them.

part of me going fishing is to improve my casting and presentation and to try out new flies i have tied. it ain't all about catching fish! i'll have fun just watching my casts and how the fly lands on the water and not worrying about if there is even a fish there. i'll take my cheap outfit and cast flies tied on my cheap vise and enjoy the whole day. and sometimes i even land a few!

Johnm...I have a friend I'll call Bill who has been happy at not improving his fly fishing skills.

Bill and I went on fly fishing trips together to a south central Montana river six times since 2001. We both fly fished prior to these trips but our skill-levels would have been considered novice to intermediate at that time. When we fished together, we hired guides and caught a lot of fish.

I have logged a lot of hours fishing this Montana river since 2001 and I can fish it with confidence. This past fall I organized a trip with two friends - Bill and another friend I'll call Joe. The three of us rented a drift boat and headed downstream. That morning as we're rigging up for a trico hatch, Bill asked me if I could get him rigged-up because he didn't know how to do it. I couldn't believe it. I was embarrassed for him and Joe was embarrassed for me (he told me as much at the end of our trip) because I tied those flies on Bill's line. I tied on his flies (flies that I tied myself ) all day long. Joe and I rowed down the river without Bill's help either. Bill and Joe needed help reading fishy water that day. I was more than happy to help Joe. He had never been on the river before, but Bill saw that river enough that he should have been able to venture on his own. We caught a respectable amount of fish and I never got a thank you from Bill.

In the past ten years I worked pretty hard at learning to catch fish on the rivers I fish. For that Montana river, I learned to double haul, I improved my stack mending skills, I figured-out how to row a drift boat down a river (I grew up a lake fisherman), and I learned to find and catch trout on technical tailwater with some freestone characteristics.

Bill never worked at trying to be a fly fisherman. He is happy having someone pamper him on the river. He just wants a framed picture of himself holding a nice trout that he can show his co-workers.

Bill and I are still friends, but I will no longer fly fish with him.

Sayfu...I didn't mention half of the problems that day. Bill didn't relinquish the bow seat until I told him to share it with Joe. He insisted on untangling his crow's nest of a leader as we're drifting through a really productive section of river instead of fishing with his other rod. He questioned my choice of flies more than once. He asked me to stop fishing way too many times so I could take a picture of him with his fish. And one of the biggest and, in hindsight, funniest problems that day was when we set-up the car shuttle service, he forgot to leave his car keys at the agreed upon spot with the shuttle service. He found them still in his pocket at lunchtime (we're already half way down the river by then). Yes, Joe and I made him hitch a ride to the put-in ramp.

Gotta give Bill some credit, he offered to row the boat. I declined for the very reason you mentioned. It would have been dangerous (I don't think he ever rowed a boat before) and he sure wouldn't have had a clue how to keep our boat away from wade fisherman or position it relative to the water we're trying to fish. Heck, I've been doing it a few years now and It's still a work-in-progress for me.

I don't want to give anyone the impression I'm a pro out there. Not even close. I'd consider myself more of a journeyman trying to learn his craft one stretch of river at a time. More than once, I had given my opinion and answered questions on this Website and upon seeing subsequent posts, wished I could change my responses.

I think Bill's chompin-at-the-bit to ask me about taking a Montana trip later this year. He recently called me for advice about a new fly reel. I'm gonna politely decline and let him know he should practice his skills on some local waters for a while.

dleurquin..And the other thing I forgot to mention. Why I told the two guys NO. The one fellow, who is a good friend, and comes over to the house, and we talk fly fishing, and we tie flies, is the guy who never could learn how to river fish. He never has gotton on to casting. He bought a new jetboat, took his son, and his son will not get near the river again after on run with his dad! The guy just couldn't read water, and would have killed himself. I scared the bejesus out of him on the dangers, and he would call me to go fly fishing, and I would run his boat. He couldn't even back it down a ramp! So much of the day with him on the water was tending to him, but I would get to fish a little. But when he said, "how about taking me, and my buddy"...that is no fishing for me, none! Two novices means constant tending to them. And it is added stress on me physically rowing a driftboat becaase both men were in the 300 lb range!! Put a 300 lber in the back of a driftboat, and rowing becomes very difficult.