In recent years I have noted that in many small companies that I deal, a growing percentage of the management seem to be considerably less then the "best and brightest." I owned my company for many years (decades) running it with but 2 rules: 1: don't run out of money, and 2: hire good people. Guess that is outdated in this new milennia.

A hero nonetheless, Sully wanted to go home to mamma that night, too!

That first quote strikes incredibly close to home. I'm in a profession where the 'no plan survives contact' line of thought is hammered home again and again. And I can't help but visualize a bunch of suits with over-priced and over-rated educations, with the deer-in -headlights look over what to do now that the plan is dead. Too bad the adapt and overcome thought process isn't taught in the civilian sector.

A guy with a hand file doesn't give the suits the control and predictable results they require. It takes a lot of trust to let a guy loose with a hand file. Start training guys to use files again. Start doing it while they are in high school. Bring back vocational arts education. Turn computer labs into machine shops. My machine shop instructor went through his apprenticeship back in the late 30's. One of his first projects was to turn a 1-1/4" cube of steel into a sphere...using a file...to within .005" (a little more than the thickness of a piece of paper) Good luck finding a kid these days who would know what file to even start with. All they know to do is giggle whenever they hear the words "Flat Bastard".

I work at a job (trauma RN) where we go through practice after practice of what to do when someone's life is hanging in the balance. Some people come out of that training and fall apart when they need to use it. Others stay calm and get the job done.
Captain Sullenberger had all the right training, but when it came time to use it he stayed calm and got the job done. He did not panic and fall apart.
All the training in the world cannot give you the calm and nerve to do what needs to be done in a critical situation.
Church bells indeed!!!!

I don't necessarily think that all the problems in the world can be blamed on MBA's or overeducation (whatever that is). In fact, I think many of the top MBA programs provide their graduates with a useful knowledge base. However, I think the trend of isolating CEO's from the day to day operations of the companies they are supposed to be running is a serious problem.

Furthermore, the reason it is impossible to find a skilled tradesmen and women anymore is because these professions require years of training and the development of skills that are not readily adaptable to other jobs. Therefore, when the industry in which a person works decides it is cheaper to operate elsewhere the person is left with few options. I just saw this happen to my father. When he graduated from high school he took a job as an apprentice Millwright. He then spent thirty years perfecting his craft, but now that it is cheaper to mill lumber in Cental and South America the skills he spent three decades perfecting are moreorless useless.

I agree with you .88mag about the vocational training. My company builds assemblies for the aircraft industry and we are constantly looking for skilled people (even with limited skills and we will train). However at the last two job fairs that our local business development centers sponsored we took tours of the local vocational schools. At both schools the machining departments were shut down due to lack of enrollment. At the one school they did offer a two year fire fighting class for the juniors and seniors. Now that is a very noble profession, however all but one fire fighting company in atleast a 100 mile radius of this school is volunteer. 68 students (34 in the morning session, 34 in the afternoon) were receiving training that would probably have very little effect on their financial future and very few skills that the few companies in this economically distressed area that are hiring were looking for. I have hired many 18-20 year olds with limited skills whose first concern usually is when they can start making the kind of money their parants do so they can buy a boat, camper, new truck, etc. just like dad. Not realizing that their parents probably worked many years to learn a skill and move up the ladder to get to that point in their lives. Many times I think it comes down to instant gratification and I want it at the Walmart price.

In the course of 44 years in the magazine biz, I had the opportunity (?) to work with/for 5 MBAs, four from Harvard and one from Wharton. None of them was effective, and one was a complete disaster. They were without exception very bright, very arrogant, abysmal at judging people, and unable to get people to produce for them.

My best competitor has an MBA. He is very good. He also has 25+ experience in the field as a forester. I envy him. If I said this once, I've said it 1,000 times! The theory that good managers can manage any business is bogus! Good management stems from knowledge of that business. That knowledge can only be gained from experience.
Actually, the two threads were closely related. Any pilot could have landed that plane, even if they had an MBA; provided they had that many flying hours and his glider experience.

John C; I,also, am a millwright, beginning my apprenticeship in 1968 at the age of 28, for a large wood products company. That co. shut down, and I got a job in another smaller co, as millwright. 15yrs. later, that co. shut down. I got a job in another co.as millwright. 1yr. later it, too shut down. I got a job in another co. as millwright at the age of 58 and retired in 2006. The skills I developed as millwright apply to so many trades they are hard to enumerate but I'll name a few. I'm an accomplished fluid power tech. I have certification for 5
position welding. I have a 1500psi steam cert. I'm certified as an LME, that's limited maintenance electrician, motor controls, lighting, etc. Not a month goes by but what I get a job offer from a hospital or a city or a county or another wood products co. desiring my skills. If a man has a good work record, and the skills he has acquired as a millwright he should be able to find a job if he wants one.

Shaky,

I appreciate your comments, and from your list of certifications I see that you, like my father, have spent your life augmenting your skills.

The thing that complicates my father's situation is that my parents live in a region of the country in which nine out ten jobs are in either the mining or timber industries. In addition, my parents' house is paid for, and as you can imagine, trying to sell thier house in this market so that they can move somewhere else is difficult at best. They are also caring for my elderly paternal grandfather making it even more difficult for them to move elswhere.

I kind of chuckled when I read your comment regarding a "good work record," as my father's co-workers referred to him as the Cal Ripken of the sawmill industry. He worked at the same company for twenty eight years and never once called in sick during that time. This accomplishment is all the more impressive when you consider that he worked six days a week throughout this period.

In close, I am happy to report that he did find a job that he seems to enjoy within a week of losing his old one. However, I fear that this job is only temporary, as it is in the mining industry which is currently shedding jobs at an alarming pace.

MBAs aren't the problem- maybe marketing departments are. Honestly, every few months some company comes out with a new caliber no one needs, or some $20,000 elephant gun that gets a big write-up in F&S but appeals to .0001 % of the hunting population.

We can now chose between gun makers for a mao riffle with a quality synthetic stock for $500. That's because MBAs figured out how to reduce manufacturing costs and improve accuracy. There are plenty of "custom makers" who will produce a $5000 gun that's old school, but it won't shoot any better than my Savage.

Taking nothing away from a skilled craftsman with a file, but there is something to be said for "unfinished" guns assembled with CNC machined components. The "average" man or woman can afford to buy them. Those lower cost "unfinished" guns still go "bang" and break clays and kill game as well as the hand fitted ones.

I retired as an engineering manager at a high volume (50,000 per day) supplier of fuel injectors for the global automobile industry. Modern fuel Injectors require tolerances of less that 1 micron (25 millionths of an inch) Not sure a person with a file can do that. A human hair is about 75 microns in diameter. It takes highly skilled individuals to keep all of that precision machining, grinding and assembly equipment operating at peak efficiency. By the way, the injectors are designed to operate for 150,000 miles and are now being sold to the car companies for less that $5.00 each due to global competition.

As for MBA's, I don't have one, but I hired an industrial engineer a few years ago who also has an MBA he earned going to school at night and on weekends at the College of William & Mary. He has the rare combination of common sense and book smarts, communicates well and is a real "people person" and team player. I have have often said that I was more lucky than good to get someone with that skill set.

I've got to disagree a bit with the post concerning managers being stove-piped by their area of expertise. Obviously focusing on one area will make you superior there, no debate about that. However, if you use a mix of common sense, basic management (leadership) principles, and a willingness to seriously listening to your workers, you will do well.

I got the same college education as my MBA holding peers did. However, my fellow Marines and I were shown how to lead by example, be extremely self-critical, and to actually listen to our subordinates. Perhaps I'm insulated here and don't see enough of the outside world, but I've never witnessed the majority of corporate executives doing any of these things.

And please don't assume it's an attack on all MBA holders, I know there are excellent business people out there. It just doesn't seem like they are in the majority.

"But that experience" above, But should be Bet.
I hate typing......

Ray, I started as a volunteer firefighter at the age of 15. Those guys many who were ex military and private sector employees taught a bunch of 15 -17 year old kids to be men (no women were allowed at the time). We were taught and practiced leadership, teamwork and to care for each other with in reason. We were also taught to admit when we screwed up to atone for it by fixing what we messed up. We learned to think and analyze situations in a split second and select the right procedure and tool for the job. So they can learn something in that class if it is taught right.
Now contrary to popular opinion we learned to do things by constant practice and by hands on demonstration. Plus they didn't hesitate to tell us when we had it wrong.This is no longer done.
The point to all this, society and its so called leadership keep dumbing down what our children have to know and learn. In Norhern Va. the school systems are lowering the grade for passing a subject to 60%! Now who wants a pilot that grauates with 60% understanding of his/her job or a doctor or heaven forbid a banker!
The citizens of this country are getting what they have asked and voted for over the years cheap goods built overseas. The old saw about who was going to buy American when no one has a job is coming true. The suits who are MBAs and Politicians can't get it through their heads that for people to buy they have to have jobs. Americans need to understand that products built excellently with craftemanship require skills gained over years of practice.(think flying an airplane or shooting an enemy at 1000 yds).
Now after 40 years in the fire service I find that the same dumbed down standards are slipping in. After injuries and a heart attack I retired from riding the trucks and went into instructing full time. I don't expect to do it much longer because I am not politically correct enough to instruct new firefighters. I speak the truth about the job and what it takes and when they screw it up, I give it to them straight up. I have been informed that this is not the way to stroke their egos.
The bottom line is "all of life is a test and to fail is to die" and one thing I keep telling my students "firefighting" is not a 60% job and this applies to anything we do.
So it is our fault as Americans that we have allowed things to get the way the have. As long as we elect peole who care only about their bottom line whether a politician or a pilot rather than providing an excellent service or product then things will continue down hill.

Man, I tried to clean up my language too. I started using "f-ing this and f-ing that". I finally came to realize that it's just hokey and stopped. Now I say whatever the f**k I like.
Great thread Dave. Taste is everything. Right down to the rifle one chooses and whiskey one drinks.

It is my opinion that the media contributes too much time to outlaws, thugs, lowlifes, gangsters, and criminals in general. There should me more air time devoted by the media to real men like "Sully", CMDR Schurman, and many others for the inspiration of our younger generation. People you can could on when the chips are really down, and I mean way way down, and they still pull you and themselves through. Such men still exist but I suppose some dopehead elementary school dropout with a stolen Hi-Point shooting up a C-store generally makes more interesting viewing for some people.
An observation I have constantly noticed is that when I open my gun safe in front of local teenagers they merely glance at the Colt-Sauer, older Brownings, and Sakos but immediately get glass eyed with spinning heads when they see a synthetic stocked stainless rifle or the AR-15. This sort of nauseates me as I am still don't like the looks and feel of the new fangled guns but have forced myself to accept them. But then I am an old fart.

Craftsmanship is a purposeful mindset, a combination of skill and creativity, and I agree that it seems increasingly rare, but we're fortunate to have a number of individuals who've risen well above mediocrity to showcase their distinctive wealth of talents on firearms that will be heirlooms long after I'm on the wrong side of the dirt. They've gone to great lengths to develop their talents and, not surprisingly, we have to go to considerable expense to commission their work. Seems fair to me.

I remember a gentleman who was a tool & diemaker. He could sculpt metal to any drawing he'd been given, in complex angles and curvature. He made it look easy, but it took decades to develop his skill. I marvel at some of the engraving and fitting I see, but I candidly can't afford most of it, but I'm thankful it exists.

As for Capt. Sullenberger, his hands on the controls made all the difference. He was precisely the right blend of talent, experience and confidence the situation required to avoid incalculable tragedy to those aboard and their loved ones, and he deserves all the recognition and credit he gets.

From Clays archives of bookmarks, places, information and things to read

“A government establishment so profligate that it thinks nothing of throwing its best people onto bonfires of its own making will likely, over time, burn down to nothing.”
-Daniel Henninger, in the Wall Street Journal, 2007-Mar-15, “The Walter Reed Fiasco: The Army fired the one guy who can fix it.”

I felt compelled to defend my MBA considering the character bashing it is receiving on this thread. I had a rather long winded post I erased rather than submit it. I guess all I need to say is that this MBA is a life long subscriber and reader of F&S. Not much different from the rest of you.