Totally agree with the fraternity comment. Any time I go out to fish or hunt I'm reminded of the time I was fishing off a pier in Lower Alabama. There was a guy who was throwing a cast net and had a bunch of live shrimp. He offered them all to me, saying he was going to keep the croakers he had caught. I didn't have a bucket to keep them in so just grabbed a handful and went off. 10 minutes later the same guy walks up with a 5 gallon bucket and says "Here, I've found this in my truck ... dont worry about getting it back to me, keep it and put it to use" I still have the bucket.

I would agree and say that this is true of many hunters and fisherman, but there always a few bad apples. I can go to a local gunstore and pickup a 15,000 trap gun, but try to look at a gun at walmart and you have to provide your birth certificate and last years tax return.

Spot on Dave. We may all have our public disagreements but where the rubber meets the road is when we help out our peers in need.

DAMN, I just heard that Shifty Powers died last month. He was one of the "Band of Brothers" from the 506 inf. 101st Airborne Div in WWII. Mr. Powers sure as hell was not a REMF. You can see him interviewed in the Band of Bros. video.

Dave and the gang, Sorry this is off subject. I just watched video of the funeral convoy from the airport for Sergeant First Class John C. Beale. Thought I was done crying for the day, now this. Nothing effects me like seeing one of my brothers in arms (or sisters) come home in a box.

Last for the week.. But I'll be baaaaack,..

Thank you Mr Diehl,. I'm certain from what Ive read
you are an individul of passion compassion and lineial thinking which rules the other kind yuk yuk
dont know that we ae on the same page with the bamb iissue ,. but thats OK ,. is see your point.

The varments are always laying in the weeds
So now and then we gotta shoot close,..( or as sea dog might say) ,. put one close to their stern so as they go side-assed for while.
So they know we know,.. they are there.

For the recod if 30-06ish ( guessing more like 22 is listenming in ,)
I am a concervative liberal ,.. which probably puts me closer to center and compromise for the better of all who happen to make less than 250 K a year
Than some right winger who would vote for a bovine if it was running under GOPee pennants.

Alas! Creekside Gun Shop closed a number of years ago. It was a good store having inventory, but items were pricey. EXCELLENT gunsmith had shop here. There was another very good gun shop down the road in Stanley, NY sporting a rifle range out back, but it closed too. I’m not aware of any present gun stores in the Rochester area having ranges on premises.

The Fraternity. Yes, I agree with the comrades and the decorum. I’ve always been impressed with the lack of anxiety on leaving some very expensive shotguns in a rack during a shoot.

Take inventory the next time you go to a trap, skeet, or sporting clays shoot.

Del, if you ever get near Wichita you should stop by Michael Murphy & Sons. They are a little out of the way but they have skeet, trap, sporty clays, a wobble stand, and a great gun room.

I bought several guns at Creekside years ago. I miss that place, as well as Shoes in Stanley.
It sure was good to have a place where you could try out the merchandise.

My favorite purveyor of hunting supplies, Whitetail Outfitters just outside of Christiansburg, VA, has a similar friendly feeling. Its not a large store by any means but you can sit an shoot the bull in there for hours.

Right on Dave, we do belong to a fraternity, a close knit group with a common bond, BUT times have changed. I don't think any of us can argue this fact. Back in the 1980's, in Minot ND, the local Scheels sporting goods store kept firearms on display racks to view at your leisure. No gun locks, and ammo shelved under the gun racks. What a GREAT WAY TO LIVE. Then one day, trigger locks appeared on the firearms....back in 1984 change was a comin`.
Our Wally World, here in MI, stopped selling firearms&ammo a few years ago. When they did carry them, it was like pulling teeth getting a salesperson for service to look at a gun, so them not selling guns is no great loss..

Thanks Dave...good comments on our special fraternity.

Johan, you are supposed to clean with Hoppe's #9, not drink it, OK? What the heck...??

My whole life has been made better by the shooting fraternity, and I am recruiting every young person that I can. It may not always be here...shooting sports have many, many enemies.

Let's save the little gunshops...and patronize our local 'smiths... and also, let's be a gentleman/woman out there on the range, and in the field. Americans have taken the Sport of Kings and made it..well, the sport of Americans.

Blue

Seriously folks,

when are people going to realize that Wal-mart cares nothing about hunting fishing or the enviroment it's just another way to make money for them don't believe me take a good look at their fishing depts...not as big as they used to be huh Shrunk up didn't they?? ..I would like to tell you about an event that happened a few years ago I was in Michigan 4 years ago went to wal-mart to buy a gun According to their sign I am in a neighboring state so they allow it purchasing of a gun by me. after filling out the appropriate 4473 fed form I was informed by the same person who checked my out of state drivers license prior to giving me the form that they couldn't sell me a gun nor would they tear up the form I was a pretty mad S*B not only that they wasted my time but they will never get another thin dime from me BOYCOTT THE SORRY STORE MAYBE THEY'D LEARN BUT THEY COULD CARELESS ABOUT THE DISSATISFIED GUY THAT WALKS OUT OF THEIR STORES AS LONG
AS THEY CAN GET SOMEONE ELSE TO BUY THEIR FOREIGN MADE JUNK.

yohan-
I find your posts rather amuzing and down right funny at times. But others, may find them somewhat offensive.

After you get your head out of the "business bucket" someone may just may take a swing with their "Louisville Slugger" as you have mentioned in other posts.

But.. please do not be alarmed and don't take it personal. They are just taking a swipe at your crusty 'ol words.

No harm,no foul!

And ... don't go away irritated,don't even go away,just be a little nicer to the rest of the nice people.

Skipped the previous posts, but even scrolling down high speed could see yohan making new friends.... I still love you yohoho unless you got some of those damn government bailouts. pssssst how can I get some of that action?

The shooting fraternity is like no other. I have shot many more guns I do not own than I have shot that I do, courtesy of range rats. They will give you cartridges, advice, sandbags, any tool imaginable, targets, thumbtacks, earplugs, cleaning supplies, and then more advice. Heaven forbid you bring children. It is as if they want every child to experience every weapon they own and don't be afraid to shoot up all that ammo... I have plenty more! Cars unlocked, thousands of dollars of hardware stashed here and there and everyone is happy to be alive and living in that world. It is like no other...

I love to stop in and visit my local gun shop, Match Shot and talk with Charlie Norris about whatever. It isn't a big place or a well organized place, but the long guns are there to be picked up and checked out. Charlie is a former LEO, (a Very Good Thing if you want to run a gun shop here in Mass) and Charlie has been very kind to me over the last decade. I too like to go in just to smell the gun oil. Walmart, Thrallmart whatever, the place is useless.

"dont know that we ae on the same page with the bamb iissue ,. but thats OK ,. is see your point."

Quite so. That's all that reasonable people can ask of ea other.

Sorry state of affairs the world is commoing to huh, Mr. Petzal ?

In Maryland, more specifically central Maryland, I daresay we do not have it so lucky. I can probably count on both hands the number of gunshops that are within the Baltimore/Washington Metropolitan area. I can count on half-a-hand how many of those gunshops are actually fun to visit.

Many times, I suspect because of the attitude towards firearms within the state government, purchasers are treated with suspicion and a certain arms-length attitude. Many places you walk into, the guy behind the counter has a holier-than-thou attitude that is a turnoff to old hands and newcomers alike. When at the range, you have to watch your gear because there have been instances where people have walked off with ammo and gear. Perhaps in the western part of the state or the eastern shore things are different, but here around Baltimore and DC there is a lack of down-home gunshops.

Its a shame because once upon a time the community of outdoorsmen was knit together by trust. However, IMHO, there has been a decline in that sense of trust because well-meaning proponents of outdoor sports have sought to recruit and include people at any cost regardless of quality of character.

My ski shop is like that, the owner has always been first rate, and i have bought skis there for 12 years

Man I wish my gunshop relationship's were half as good as yours! I have 3 close to me. At the closest, if you're not there to buy one of their $1500 Benellis, you're lucky to get the time of day, and with the current 'ammo panic' going on, they're really putting the screws to their customers, the 2nd gunshop had the most unhelpful, unknowledgable salesmen, if you can call them that, I've ever seen, EXCEPT at the Basspro which is the 3rd gunshop mentioned. Now, they'll gladly show you something, and are quite friendly, BUT, I was having a problem w/my daughter's youth 20ga. patterning really high. I ran it by the salesman, expecting him to show me some good red-dot scopes, which was what I was after, but he asks another clerk, and they tell me to wait while they ask the "expert". So I wait 10 min., and I'm not real patient, then the expert comes out, I give him the rundown, and he tells me I'm adjusting the open sights wrong. Tells me this like I'm an idiot too. Now I don't mind being told I'm doing something wrong, but his directions on the "proper" way to do it WERE WRONG! Jeeze!
So Mr. Petzel, once again, I envy you. BTW, a fellow customer listening to the whole 'sighting' debacle pointed out a close place to go that had TruGlo sights on sale. That was a helpful fellow shooter.

aren't wal-mart gun clerks fun? the entire nation wide combined iq must be somewhere in the vacinity of 6. my almost 8 year old son knows more about guns that most of their clerks do. as for our "little club" yes, most shooters i have run across are good people. i especially like helping out new people in our sport. not that i am any kind of gun genius, who knows everything there is to know, but i help when i can. there is another group of people that comes pretty close though. motorcycleists. no, i am not talking about the small percentage of outlaw bikers (hells angles, etc.) (every sport has its black sheep) just the normal run of the mill everyday motorcyclist riding down the road. to find a person who is both, is not so common (like myself), but we are out there.

To Ralph the Rifleman
Are you in Minot? I had an old friend who lived up in Antler for several years.

To Dave,yes they were. My daughter referred to myself,my brother, her husband, and her son, as the "bunch" and as some sort of guy progression we began to call each other after the character's names.When I needed an email address it fell into placem My vanity tag is aka lyle.

To Lyle G-
I lived in Minot,ND, from 1984 to 1988, while on active duty at Minot AFB. I currently live in Center Line, Michigan.

I will drink to that....but after I am done shooting.

That sounds a lot like the little sporting store here at home. Very small but always a lot of guys tradeing guns stories or advice on hunting, loading ,fishing . I'm there about every day. No guns on the wall, but someone has one or two with them. Lots of fishing equipment.

Look what you have stirred up, Dave, Keep up the good work, let the truth bleed forth....Blessing to all you that have served,

Hi Dave,
maybe the salesman from 1970 just couldn't wait to see you bash yourself silly with the big Weatherby.

As soon as you buy a gun... and let me add that you use it responsibly, you become a member of a fraternity. One that its members go out of their way for one another. That's my type of fraternity.

"from TJ wrote 1 day 22 hours ago

Del, if you ever get near Wichita you should stop by Michael Murphy & Sons. They are a little out of the way but they have skeet, trap, sporty clays, a wobble stand, and a great gun room."

OK, what is a "wobble stand"? Anyone?

We got a couple Big gun shops around here, Grice in Clearfield PA, and Millers in Mill Hall PA, of the 2 I prefer Millers. Personally my favorite is Bob's Army and Navy in Clearfield, smaller and in an old building, still has the old creaky wood floors, has piles of the cool army surplus stuff! Not a Huge gun selection but adequate, people are helpful but some tend toward the self proclaimed "expert" type, I try to avoid them if possible. otherwise a really nice place to kill several hours milling about, and digging around in the surplus sections always gleans a few thing you "can't do without"! Could also be why the wife doesn't like me visiting there too often, something about having to pay the mortgage every month or some such non-sense.
Women have strange priorities at times........

Moshie (regading 30-06ish and those of his ilk ) ,.. correct you are ,.. there is always a guy like 30-06-ish ( likley a smaller cailber tho yuk yuk )
Who is easily put on the defensive ,.
IE ,.. also one who would I believ,e vote for a Brown Swiss Bull or Sara ("0 crap") Palin ,.if it,. or it ,. were on the GOP ticket
And ya I do get a kick out of doing just ecxactly what you descibe.
I used to work for peope of his (30-06ish ) "ilk",. profile.
But I fired em,.. quit,. started my own deal .

Sooner or later one comes to the realizaion the only way peole like that maintain any credibility is to attempt to discredit others. IE:
To be believable they must ( attempt ) to make whom ever look less ,. so obvious it is childs play .

Which is why I was not a "lifer" like my god father
The General
Whom by the way I respected emensly.
But didnt get along with all that well.
Due primarily to his miltary rank and file ,. line and staff ( black and white ) take on the entire world and every living cell within it
When your a General or someone with he 30-06ish profile ,. to question or dissagree is to assault.
Moreover not that im such a lousy speller ( not god but better than let on ) ,. its that Im a loust typest yuk yuk,.
( because normally I have people who do that for me )
Or in other words Im the boss

Still ,. it does help to give anal defensive little guys something to pick at ,..

So ya Moshie I will on occasion try to flush one (of that type )_ out.
Sole purpose being to engage and expose.

Great post Dave! I used to go to Skinners in downtown Toronto. Once I took my Savage 20 (.250-3000) on the subway to get there. I can still remember riding with it between my knees riding the train, and then walking downtown from the station; no trigger locks, and not too many stares...imagine that today. The guys at Skinners were all laughs and usually invited me into the back where the gunsmiths worked. I was the youngest around but far from the least experienced. What a great fraternity. Got to know the gang at Collector's in Houston pretty well too.
Funny how solid and authentic pastimes like shooting pull people together while our common/normal society pushes 'em apart, at least at times. Don't know if any of the others experience this but it's crazy when you're on the water fishing and everyone waves as you pass...later the same guy will give you the bird on the highway if the traffic is tight on the way home. Go figure.
Thanks.

Hey Dave when the salesman asked you what your license was for you should have told him so he could notify your next of kin after he handed you a .460 Weatherby magnum... hey yohan you want to buy $35,000 of GM stock? At least that's what it was worth a year and a half ago before I started tearing up my quarterly reports without opening them. I bought the only 7X57 I could find Ruger No.1A and it likes Norma 150's which haven't been made in a long time but I can sell you 100 rounds of those too and still have plenty! When I run out I'm going to try Sellier & Bellot 170 grainers... I think it likes heavy bullets. Actually it is aging well. The more I shoot it, the better it gets.

Well 30-06-ish ,. dis here be yo lucky day ,.
I just deleted ( not on purpose) my rebuttal to your overly simplistic take on what i am,. whatI can do and
what I should do .
Been dealin with guys like you for freaking ever ,.
Have even had em work for me ,.and I always give em a chance ,. but Ive never had one last . Self appointed universal experts who know everything.

Dont have time to retype but lets just say this .
Your lack of the ability to read between lines ,. connect the dots through cognitive deduction
IE figure it out,.. is amazing ,.. then again,. is what it is.

As to DP I think he is,.. likley as not,. as good a guy as one will meet , at least from what I've read ,..
We,.. he and I (also from what Ive read) differ politically as in 180 degrees ,.
which also just is what it is.
Further I do not take issue with his service.
My understanding is that he was a career soldier mustered out with honor.
My God Father who has gone to the happy huntng ground walked around with two stars on his shoulders and people called him General ,. so not like Im totally in the dark about rank and file and who kisse who;s when and for what reason, and i also came to kmow,.. which end of an M-16 to point at "charlie"
Thusly the last time I checked the right and privilage to disagree is or was still intact ,.
That you don like what I say is how to say ? ,.. Hmmm
tough bananna's.??

Running short of time here so will end with
No am not a Mom batt ,.. 6'1" about 235 now ,. should
get that down to about 225 in a few weeks ,.& yes i cant spell,.
I am stock broker and I know what i know about the economic situatiion we now face .
I also know why we face it and just how very very close we came to global financial meltdown,..coplements of the previous 2 adminstrations
Which had it actuially occured (and again it was unbelievably clsoe ) would have made sporting arms nothing short of a none issue.
I was amature boxer for over 2o years .
Overt he years got so i had to go to chicago to get a fight ,..and even now in upper 50's most who know me dont wanna stand toe to toe

However since you apparently have assumed the role of field and stream spelling cop,.. better talk to Ralph the Doc last time i knew HE was offical F & Stream spelling cop. Dont think you wanna get him cranked
And Clay all knowing about anything west and north.and 1000 yds away .

These are the guys that used to rise to the bait ,. but are now too smart ,..yuk yuk ,.
Best regards the Doc and Clay !

Blueridge ,. thank you very kindly for your gentle direction I bet you and I are not very diffeent
Accordigly so your not up tonight worrying
truely,.. I prefer scotch

Well schucks again there Mr Petsal
I am amazed at the similarity bewtweeen you me and a number of other powder burners.
Am further amazed at the diametric divergance as to basic human services you seem to promote (or work to prevent ) in the name of the "right" to bear arms.
It thusly occurs to ask ,.are you possibly a spook ?
Grass cloth" jargan for a political plant ?
Just a thouight ,..

Yet understnding the vast politial chasm that realy exists. Betweeen you and many of the people who actuially think you might be one of them.

The amazemnt of course continues due to your not so couched ,..ongoing attack on poiticians past or present (Hillary etc,.)and others bent on heath care for all.
Or at the very least,.. a competitive heath care environment,

Such that healthy well meaning citizens ( or those those not sick or compromised by the lack of preventative care so easily provided ) can maintain the strength and fortitude to reach out and help defend our place in history,.
To promote good will and the trust of good people Realizing full well that "hail and well met fellows" (powder burners) who as "travelers" may seek refuge and shelter under a brothers (fellow powder burnmer's ) roof,. .either figuatively or litteraly is simply part of the undertaking.

IE: IS ,.. it better to sit blinking denying and fearfull,.. behind a large fire at the mouth of the cave of "what was"
OR,..is it better to embrace "the I will help you help your self "
"I will help the strong that will ,..to help the poor and the weakend and desperate.
So as a group of powder burners we are not comprised by being a group mostly comprized of those missing too many teeth or a gimp we can't afford to have fixed.
Cringing in front of those who have all they need or will ever need.
Just to keep a job and food on the table.
So ,. we actually have SOONER than later some political PULL .

Assuming you were in the miltary it appears to me fro what ive read ,.you just had to have been in " the other miltary" ,. the one with clean flags,.. and sheets,.. plenty of socks ,..food, water and new unifirms,...
and medicine,.. and ammunition.
The one in the rear,.. where opinions are cheap
and no man is left behind. The one where the stink of fear and blood have no place in the chow line at the sparkling clean (tripple scrubbed ) mess hall
The one where boots on the ground die because its thier turn and body count is just a number ,. as long as its,.not too close.

I hear the words ( talking the talk )
but see no tracks that indicate walking the walk in the direction we need.

Nothing personal Mr. Petzal
Just my 2 cents in public forum .