What bothers me most about these town hall meetings is the reaction of those on the other side of the argument and the disdain shown towards common Americans voicing their opinions. In many cases its obvious that those attending the meetings know more about what is in the bill that congress is considering than the elected officials promoting it. Yet we are supposed to trust them to know what is best for us?

-Don't know why I'm reading "The Iron Heel" by Jack London again after 35-years.

-The ghouls are coming to yank the cord on your life-support, Dave! ....Gotta love Gov't Health Care.

She is such a pleasant and likeable person that I think we shall invite her over for tea sometime.

muddog...

A) I am aware that there is more than one bill being considered in Congress. My comment was neither for or against any of the bills but addressed the attitude of many towards those voicing their opinions in what is supposed to be an open forum. And not that it's any of your business, but I have been without health insurance since getting laid off six months ago. I have paid for my families medical bills with my own money.

B) "What bothers me most ...(is) the disdain shown towards common Americans voicing their opinions." I rest my case.

C) Perhaps government should address the existing problems with Medicaid/Medicare and VA health services before taking over the rest of the health care system.

Moishe.

Iraq attacked us? Really? Wow must be some insider info that only YOU have access to. You sir are an idiot and a LIAR.

I have been to more countries in the last 10 years than you have been to in a lifetime. Care to compare?. I have seen 1st hand what tyranny looks like, you would not recognize it if it came up next to you and tapped you on the shoulder.

You read the Bill, all 1018 pages? NOT.

The G.O.P. has 788 "Amendments” to HR3200 I suggest you read those & the REAL bill.

That 10 page "bill” you downloaded from Rush Limbaugh.com aint it, so Git-R-Done and read the real one then come back and lecture me with some serious thought...

He is spending money on the wrong things, what “Things” is he spending that you don’t like?.

Did not seem to bother the so called “Fiscal” conservatives that we are spending 5 BILLION a month on Iraq.

Ain't it funny that Kin Sun you called her a "funny lady" and wanted nothing to do with her but welcomed Slick Willie with Glee!! I bet that burned the whitches axe!! Ha! Ha! Who wouldn't want a expensive Savage when the CHEAP ones shot as well as rifles costing 6 times as much? That my friends is a No (Petzal pun included) Brainer!! I'll accept a health care plan shoved down my throat by the goverment as long as the president, congress,senators billion and millionairs and Petzal's health care policies are the exact same as mine!!! otherwise piss off and I will continue my unconditional involvement with the Michigan Militia!

Here's a Question for everybody-- Why doesn't Obama schedule any town meetings in Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, or Georgia?? Can the secret service guarantee his protection in Russia but not in the southern U. S. of A.??

Mr. Petzal, I would be very interested in your thoughts on the long range precision varmit rifle. I would like one in 6mm BR with a faast twist.

We have been told by our Rep (or is that lack of Rep) that there will be no town hall meetings to discuss health insurance. Not that they will take our opinions to heart before ramrodding this through the House anyway.

As for the Savage, it costs just as much money to design an ugly rifle as it does a good looking one.

Pointing out the Savage line reinforces some of what I have told my boys when they starting buying their own rifles. I suggested that they should spend around $1,200. Half should go for the Savage, the other for a scope. If anything is left over, buy ammo for practice.

BTW, I avoid the death boards by staying out of the lumber yard.

My employer pays over $13,000 per year for my health benefit package. I don't want to be paying that for all those welfare and illegal mongrels out there who are too sorry or incompetent to get a job. Nobody ever said you could sit on your ass and prosper.

Me, oh, my...Dave you have done it again!
Lets get back to shooting the Gun-Bull, not the POLITICAL BULL!

Back to a more civilized topic...

I just aquired a new Savage 16 FLHSS (stainless left hand, hinged floor plate) with Accustock and Accutrigger in 7-08. Savage has radically changed the profile of the gun. Smoother curves, even better contour to that evil barrel nut, the groves in it are gone too. The bolt release is now a button in front of the trigger guard and the stock is leaps and bounds above the previous tupperware jobs. The bolt is slick and feeding flawless. Accuracy is what one expects from Savage.

It is in my opinion no longer a wallflower. I'll say compared to other products out there she's a strong 6 to a 6 and a half. Just the avarage cute gal from next door you wouldn't be ashamed to be seen with. Comments from my range buddies were, "That's a Savage..., damn... they have come up in the world, nice look'in rife for a Savage..."

Dave you once said if Savage could ever put out a truly pretty rifle the rest of the gun makers would have to close their doors or something to that effect. Well they just might be getting close!

@muddog

I tend to avoid political arguments with snobby people like you (and I know you are snobby by the way you threw out how your travel has given you this "enlightened" world view), but I will take issue with your inbreeding comment on the south.

Deriding people as inbred, toothless, redneck yahoos merely for the region of the country they are from is as old and played out as the Hillary jokes you derided, and as ignorant as the bigotry you accused people of having towards President Obama.

I'm not going to argue for or against government health care on a message board for shooting, but I will call a spade a spade and say that you are a hypocrite.

I am always amused @ the lack of intelligence here; I suppose it is of no surprise.

Yes, one must be a liberal if you do not agree with the "group" think of the "narrow" minded.

If one has 1/2 a working brain cell it takes VERY LITTLE to know that the FRENCH system is FAR better than anything we have here in the US. We have the highest health care costs in the world, an undisputable fact. Of course the G.O.P changes the French fries in the Congressional Cafeteria to “Freedom Fries” ……

The 50 Million Americans not on health care comes from an information gathering method called a “Census’ maybe you have heard it before? The CBO (for those of you who don’t know) is the Office of Budget and Management; they say there are app 47 Million people without health care. Care to debate their facts with yours?.

Canadians pay higher sales taxes and we pay higher heath insurance to corporate America. If you live in Canada you do NOT get dropped due to pre existing conditions like you do hear.

There is no 10 month "waiting" period in Britain, what Corporate sponsored conservative talking head did you get that from?

As for traveling, if that makes me enlightened then so be it. I suppose like Sarah Palin real American stay close to home.

Glorifying ignorance is not patriotic...

WAmanhunter..Please show me WHERE you get your info…Pride? The question is do you?. Pride in a system that is broken?. Pride in ignorance?.

AS for the health care debate on a shooting blog, the above Blog post made it political.

I’ll bet Hillary could kick the SH&$#T out of bimbo ( Quitter ) Plain….

There are 4 bills currently being debated by committee in the Senate, 1 in the House. Which of the 5 is everyone so pissed about? This Death board sh** is retarded. The language stated that they would visit elderly patients to see if they had a living will. Not to euthanize them, but to see if they would even want to be on life support. Most everyone in my family has DNR orders in their living wills, because they do not want to live on machines indefinitely if they're not conscious to tell Dr.'s to pull the plug. Republicans, instead of coming up w/a solution to the state of our health care system, did the only thing they know how to do lately, bash the Democrat's plan, and pick apart language to try to scare the SHEEP. I have no problem w/people getting upset about health care reform, but I don't believe any of them have actually read the bills, hell, most of the Senate and Congress haven't even read ALL 5 bills. If your gonna get mad, get mad at the facts, not at what Rush or Hannity told you for Christ's sake. Speaking of facts, the USA is ranked 37 in industrialized nations in quality of health care. I don't claim to know the solution, but there DAMN sure is a PROBLEM!

As for the Savage custom guns, I'm sure they're excellent.

"Then why, when wealthy foreigners need surgery, do they come here for it?"

Wealthy foreigners don't come here for the kind of treatment that Joe Average American gets from his private insurance plan. When money is not a factor you can get any kind of care you want.

I really like to see Hitlery stick her foot, sock,boot, and spur in her mouth! Seems some
other politicians have misjudged the mood of the American public when they decide enough is enough. Despite the MSM doing their best to characterize the righteous anger of the people as "organized mobs."
As to the Savage, I have often stated that my .223 is the most accurate rifle I have ever used "out of the box." No issues other than a slightly stiff action. If I ever discover that I need, no, if I ever persuade The Bookkeeper I need another rifle to fill in a caliber niche, it will be a Savage 14 or 114. Left handed, or course!

Moishe, well thought out with facts difficult to refute.
Insofar as the 6.5 x .284 it has been my experience that it is barely more than a .260 through the chrony. Good but not great long range big game round. I know a few local hunters who disagree with me on this last remark. Frankly I prefer the original .284 or a .270 Win. but the 6.5 has such a fantastic reputation with the paper punchers that it will probably be somewhat successful especially since Norma makes brass for it.

If people really wanted to fix health care they would give up the chemically enhanced, drive-thru diet lifestyle we have in this country. But why do that when you can live it up and have some one else pay the tab.

Mike diehl,
I must say I am glad that I can agree with you on something. The single payer system has never worked. Never in the history of the world, it only limits health care and eventually no matter what is said health care is rationed.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/answers/other/isnt-it-wonderful-we-have-so...

Arguing over politics is like arguing over which cockroach is uglier. Until we change the election process they are all bought and paid for. I don't think ANY of them area acting in OUR best interest. It's what can they do so someone will pay for their re-election. Election reform is the only way. Media should volunteer time and space for debates. Each candidate should be alotted a small amount for campaign. Million for pres half for senate and house. quarter for qov. etc. maybe then meaningful legislation be passed

"I got to shoot with Bill Dermody, who handles PR for Savage..." Got whiplash on that paragraph Dave -- I thought you were talking about "Michael" Savage!

Ok Muddog-
I am a medical doctor, so this bill has serious repercussions for me. As such, I HAVE read most of the bill, and am currently on page 832. Here is a list of the notes I have been taking directly from the bill, along with page numbers should you care to do a little research and verify.

1. Pg 16: You can’t change private insurance providers and can’t modify your existing plan.
2. Pg 22: Gov’t will audit books of ALL businesses that self insure.
3. Pg 29 Health care will be rationed.
4. Pg 30: Gov’t committee determines all benefits.
5. Pg 50: Health insurance provided to all NON-CITIZENS including ILLEGALS.
6. Pg 58: Gov’t will have total access to every individual American’s personal finances.
7. Pg 58: Every American will be issued a national ID card.
8. Pg 65: Huge payoff to unions and ACORN.
9. Pg 84: Gov’t determines benefits of PRIVATE health care plans.
10. Pg 124: No lawsuits allowed.
11. Pg 127: Gov’t sets doctor salaries.
12. Pg 145: Employs must enroll all new employees into gov’t plan.
13. Pg 149: All employers with payroll above 400k without 100% enrolled in gov’t plan will be taxed an extra 8%.
14. Pg 150: All employers with payroll between 251-400k without 100% enrolled in gov’t plan will be taxed an extra 2-6%.
15. Pg 167: All citizens without gov’t health insurance will be taxed an extra 2.5%.
16. Pg 170: All illegals are exempt from taxes.
17. Pg 239: People older than 65 will have reduced medical services.
18. Pg 241: All doctors paid exact same salary. Specialties mean nothing.
19. Pg 317: Gov’t dictates how much doctors can own in practice.
20. Pg 317-318: Hospitals cannot expand without approval from gov’t and endorsement from ACORN.
21. Pg 341: Gov’t can cancel private plans anytime, forcing the person into gov’t plan.
22. Pg 354: Special needs people will be resticted. Off to the glue factory....
23. Pg 425: Gov’t determines what will be in wills and durable powers of attorneys.
24. Pg 425: Gov’t determines who is euthanized and when.
25. Pg 469: Home medical services will be provided by ACORN.
26. Pg 489: All marriage and family counseling will be provided by gov’t.

I did some digging so I could tell everyone I know some of the things that are included in the health care bill that is currently being pushed hard by Obama and his state media outlets. Here are some of the provisions:
A provision for mandatory counseling for those over 65. They will be required by the government to attend government counseling sessions to “advise” them on their health decisions. Don’t believe me? Page 425 from the House bill. Section 1233:

The measure requires "an explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title." They will be required to attend government counseling on the benefits of end-of-life services!
From Obama’s own lips: http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2009/07/obama-no-surgery-take-pain-k...

This is really very simple. The government can only control costs by cutting payments to doctors (meaning less doctors) and/or cutting services to patients. The language of the bill says that it “shall measure both the creation of and adherence to orders for life-sustaining treatment." A similar “ordering” program is already is in effect in the United Kingdom, where patients losing their eyesight to age-related macular degeneration cannot be given an eyesight-saving medication until they lose sight in one eye. The counseling is also pretty simple.
They are going to try to convince you of the benefit to society of your just going ahead and dying. Again straight from the bill, the ordering "may range from an indication for full treatment to an indication to limit some or all interventions."
Roughly 12 million illegals will be given free health care. Obama has said publicly that the plan would only apply to citizens. Sounds good, right? Well, with typical government misdirection, the bill makes it illegal to check to see if a person is a citizen! Now how do you think that is going to work?
3. Your health care information will no longer be private. Your complete medical profile will be part of the national database used to determine the “ordering” of services described above.
Although not currently in the bill, taxpayer funded abortions may also be included as per Peter Orszag (Obama’s budget director). Obama claims that the bill will not add to the deficit. The Congressional Budget Office (if not neutral, a left-leaning body of Congress) has said it will cost $1.04 trillion).
These are just a few provisions. The bill is over 1000 pages long and no one has even read it yet (don’t forget they passed the “stimulus” and “cap and trade” with not one member of Congress even reading the bill). With none of the provisions of the bill set to go into effect until 2013 what’s the hurry you ask? Could it be they want to get it passed before we all find out what’s really in it?

So to briefly sum up, they are going to end medical confidentiality, deny care to the elderly, give care to illegals for free, and support death at both ends of the life cycle. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

By the way, how is that "Hopey-Changey" thing working out for you? It's kicking my a$$ as far as retirement and stock portfolios. My home has lost about $200,000 of its value, too.

24. Pg 425: Gov’t determines who is euthanized and when.
25. Pg 469: Home medical services will be provided by ACORN.
26. Pg 489: All marriage and family counseling will be provided by gov’t.

How obvious does BS get?

27. Pg 500: MSNBC will be force fed thru the TV to all hospital bound patients.
28. Pg 577: All car accidents not occuring in a Hybrid or EV will not be covered.

I could make up boogeyman scare some sheep BS all day. Anybody else have any good ones?

Cracks me up.

It shouldn't though, because this kind of thing is being passed as real info all over.

Facts, please?

Also, can we mulligan this post?

Less politics rabble rabble inaccuracies and more savagely accurate rifles, please.

First, I never thought of Savage firearms as "cheap"
Just good old Yankee ingenuity for making fine firearms that shoot well that are also affordable.
I will not pass by another used gun rack if I se a Savage/Stevens 311D 12 Gauge Double. Have two already will buy same model for parts interchange someday if i have to. First one was so nice of a shooter, I had to buy the second. Might even buy other letter suffix EFG or whatever if price is good.
And my 110 in .30-06 is a real tackdriver. Use it when I want "to reach out and touch someone" or better word, something like a coyote or other varmint. 125 gr Speer TNT are great and high velocity. Great terminal performance. I love the -06 can do anything with it

I have lived over a half a century and lived by a very simpe rule ( IF IT LOOKS LIKED A DUCK,QUACKS LIKE A DUCK AND WALKS LIKE A DUCK ITS PROBABLY A DAMN DUCK). We need the government for some things but we don,t need it for everything. Some day I hope we have a party with comman sense that drives it and not personnel agenda.
As for rifles made by Savage they have always been great for accuracy and price I just hope they don,t start thinking the name is more valuable than thier quality.

All the liberal "kool aid" drinkers will support anyone who has a "D" after their name, no matter how insane and anti-America he/sheit is. My appologies to Kool Aid.
Further, Everyone needs to be aware of a bill coming up before the House now. It is HR 45. This is a scary one for ANY gun owner. Research it. More liberal crap from the "leaders" on the left. You liberals better open your eyes before it is too late. If They get all they want, it will apply to you as well, and then it will too late.

Kinda like when ol' Bush wanted to overhaul that government run Ponzi scheme called Social Security, huh SL? Seems like you are forgetting that the great Bill Clinton even started taxing Social Security benefits. They keep raising the age eligibilty and that is their solution to fixing SS. Get it up to where everyone is dead and you won't have to repay a cent of what has been confiscated. Yeah, that sounds like a plan.

Well, why didn't he overhaul SS if he thought it needed fixing? He had a republican majority in both houses for 6 out of his 8 years to do it, didn't he? He much preferred sitting on his thumbs, however.

Ah yes, as usual a gun is the solution to all the worlds problems for some of you! And then you wonder why a good many in this country don't trust you with them?

Nicely done Dave, look at what you've started now:) Here's my take on the current thinking in Washington...

-Medicaid and Medicare are broke or going broke, so obviously we need a third government sponsored health care program.
-Government run healthcare is definetely the solution, just look at how well the VA operates. (on a serious note, having practiced at a VA during my training, I can honestly say that I wouldn't send my dogs there)
-The best way to get "Big Pharma" to develop new, life-saving drugs is to demonize, regulate, and tax the s*%t out of them.
-This country has a physician shortage, especially in primary care. Clearly the best way to recruit more physicians is to pay them less.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I sure am glad we voted for hope and change.

"I am mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more" Howard Beale from the movie "Network".

The inactivity or activity of the previous administration (whether you agree or not) is the reason the current administration is trying to inflict their version of "change" upon us now. Same old crap as before. Folks were fed up with the Clinton's shenanigans and elected Shrub. Before that, folks were fed up with Jimmuh Catuh and elected Reagan and then foolishly (in my opinion) elected Bush the First thinking he would be a chip off the Reagan block.

Politics is just a vicious cycle when folks get to vote on who holds the keys to the nation's treasury. Anything Congress and Obama can F-up now can certainly be fixed by the next majority or revolution. The method of the next "change" just depends on how bad or good it turns out to be.

muddog, SL, etc.

Here's how you lower health care costs in America.

1. Loser pays. When somebody sues someone in every civilized country in the world except this one, if you sue and LOSE, you pay the court costs and lawyer fees of the person you sued. There goes the majority of lawsuits, malpractice suits, etc. right there; in America we settle frivolous suits out of court because they cost too much to contest. This would be huge; it would allow doctors to practice medicine rather than worrying about frivolous lawsuits. Think the law firm of Obama and Biden will go for that one?

2. Offer low cost catastrophic insurance. Most young people don't need medical insurance; they've got strong hearts, clean lungs, and good circulation. They need to be protected from the disasters. Work up a $3000 deductible med insurance; it would cost them pocket change and still keep them from losing the house if (God forbid) there was a car crash with injuries, or their small child was diagnosed with leukemia.

3. NO free medical care. Everybody pays a fee per doctor visit, even if it is only $50. That includes illegal aliens. This will keep the people who think 'free' means 'use it whether you need it or not' from abusing the system.

4. Permit drug companies to amortize research expenses via lower taxes rather than passing the costs on to the consumer. So the $100 bottle of pills would go away and the drug companies would be encouraged to spend more on research. Everybody wins.

All of these would work. None of them is on the table. That is because this is about control, not medical care. Why don't conservatives like government control? I don't know; maybe its the idea that your government can do things you absolutely disagree with and make you pay for them! Some of that is necessary, but the less, the better!

For the rest, if you want to argue with bonedoc33, kindly get a copy of the plan yourselves, turn to the pages he cites, and correct him. Hillary once screamed that she was sick and tired of protesting (Bush) being called unpatriotic, and Obama said that protesting IS patriotic. So here we all are, being patriotic.

Having lived in Canada for a number of years, I have one observation to make about their universal health care: Canada, like most "free" countries, has liberal and conservative politicians. One group tries to make the health system work for the benefit of all, the other tries to short-change it for the benefit of the insurance, pharmaceutical, and medical industries. Make no mistake. The U.S. is no different. You may wish to believe some of the ridiculous claims made by conservative pundits, that's you're right. But make no mistake, you're already paying a ton of taxes for the health care of all those uninsured who flood our federal, state, and city run emergency rooms because they have no other options. You're also paying dearly for the so-called "company insurance" picked up by your employer. This is not a gift, it's an expense that is figured into the cost of everything produced in this country. One way or another that "free" health insurance is coming out of your pocket every time you go to the store. And, finally, when conservative pundits try to scare you into believing absurd claims, try to remember their true calling. They, too, are doing their bidding for the insurance, pharmaceutical, and medical industries when it comes to health care. They care no more about you on this issue than they did when the so-called "housing crisis" began. It was your fault for buying a house that created the financial failure of so many companies. The million dollar bonuses and bad investment strategies and greed of the large banks and insurance companies had nothing to do with it. Similarly, it's the fault of the unions that so many companies have moved offshore and turned their backs on this country while contributing to the economic prosperity and increasing world power of China, a communist regime. The "true" conservatives would rather see millions of us without jobs in the midst of another Great Depression than give up on their belief that what's good for big business is good for this country. I pray that you are not forced to join the ranks of some 3 million workers who have lost their jobs in the past year and exhausted their funds in order to learn that you weren't as conservative as you thought you were.

P.S.

I have one slot left in my gun safe. Looking forward to your Savage report.

Focusfront, please direct us to these insurance companies who are offering this low cost catastrophic insurance for young people? The truth is they much rather sell you the insurance they are offering currently to everyone. They make way more money that way, which if you didn't already know is more than a little bit important to them.

Also direct us to these doctors who would treat you for as little as $50. I have yet to know of one who would put a bandaid on a paper cut for that kind of money.

Maybe that drug wouldn't cost $100 if drug companies spent less on advertising in hopes of brainwashing (actually the have succeeded!) society into thinking that one needs to take drugs for everything from toenail fungus to ED! There is at least one drug commercial at every commercial break on TV these day. Sometime two or three in a row. Cut this nonsense out and drugs would cost less to those that really require them. But NOOO, God forbid we tried to put any controls on any private enterprise!

I've was blocked,.. it seems probably due to content when I "took off" a few days ago on that genius crm 30-06 ,.
Then had to go through affice complaince audit ,. no pic nic ,. so have been speed scanning,..trying to catch up.

And here we go again ,. ralizing this is an open forum
Thinking back some months,. didn't some guy named Zumbo get the ax for tossing a political hot potato.
Wonder if the people at F & S are looking at a "gun blog" wondering if it's being used as a private political platform rather than that of original purpose.
I know for certian were it me i would be looking down that hallway VERY hard

That said we NEED health care reform ,. and it appears like alwayas in our history . Those with the absolute biggest mouths appear (to me anyway) to know the least about what would work best.
Just is what it gents,. and ladies if any happen to be listening ,.
We dont get s&!t done in this country without a fight.
And unfortunatly it isnt always the best man or cause that wins.
Many times its the man with the most money.

Hopwever there also appear to be some here that realize if we don't get health care reform ,.. medical / health care cost will be right behind oil as comodity that will eventually strangle a major portion of our population.

If you happen to knock down 250-500 K a year you aint gonna be for it ,. but thats kinda tuff
Primarily because those individules anf this ethat actually make more have had tax breaks that would feed house and cloth a middle incone family ,.
and that ladies and gentlmen is not fair.

Because those hard working God fearing tax paying people. The ones who fight the wars ( and live or die ) ,. the ones who build the buildings and fix your plumbing,. stock the shelvs haul the goods keep yoru neighborhoods safe ,.. etc etc
are not getting a fair shake and they should.

Im almost never this flipping middel ground when it come to ths kind of thing ,. I am however what would bedescribed as concervative liberal. Who dose smake a pretty good living ,. enough so that these things really are not a factor to me.
But I see others all the time who are not doing so well.
Who have had to cancel insurnace ,.
Which means this ,if its canceled they can't afford it.
If any major illness or injury occurrs they are SUNK as sure as the Titanic rests on te bottom the Atlantic
. get sick get,. or injured
get a 100 k in hostpital bills. And watch your life unravel right before yoru eyes ,. cuase if youve got no money but equity in your house ,.. The hospitals and insurace companies are going to take your house.
Because teh business end of that bunch dont give on damn weather you have a place to live or not
If thy can get the coin they think they are due.

There have been a number of good and bad ideas floatd ,..
But the one I like best ,. because Im in buiness and i know what compitition does,. normally drives down cost ,.

If it were up to me ,. I would get with the Walmart executives and say.
Guys,.. we wanna run a competitive healtcare buisness ,. we wanna do the best we can for the customer and still make a buck ,..what can we do.
Business is business ,. and I bet JUST THE THOUGHT of a Walmart run competitior would get the Insurance and heath care indudtry just wetiong their colective pats ,.. trying bring cost down

CRM 30-06 I submit sir you might consider a medication that has similar properties to that of prozac and or Midol

Yoyo-
Was hoping you had retired under your bridge, gotten butted by a goat or eloped with Bella to raise little trolls. Alas, it was too good to be true! Glad you recognize true genius when you encounter it, but your attempts at oxymoron-ism (concervative liberal)[sic] only fall into the category of moron.
Two things- you would make more sense if you would learn to use spell check, at least your self aggrandizing bull-squat would be legible, and you really should lay off the Hoppe's #9 and airplane glue.

I have observed this banter from affar- my blood pressure was already too high this last week, I had to take a break. There are more dumb liberal shmucks on here than I thought! I will not waste good keystrokes participating with the monkeys humping the football.

Oh well, I like the rifles- I would like to get the action and re-barrel it with a coustom Lilja or equivalent, and build my own stock- that would be great!

As for government controlled health care, not a chance- no "Heil Barak" for me!

crm3006

Have you said anything that relates to the subject at hand? Put some substance in your posts. Forget the personal attacks. Even,if you miss the point, as Mr. Petzal has done, by assuming that all this angst in the country is about our collective displeasure with government rather than greed, prejudice, avarice, and distrust, at least you'd have given us something to chew on. Bueno? Now, as far as the subject of Savage is concerned, I hope they give us some garden variety calibers in this new rifle. Searching for a box of off-the-shelf 6.5x284's in eastern Wyoming might give one sufficient cause to place a personal call to the Death Board.

crm 30-06ish
as I said ,. something with similar properties to that of Midol cauase your now sound as though there just may be a gender blur or Pozac YUK YUK

Can say this ,. do recognize the profile and while I do not gamble ,. would bet significant coin of the relm,. you ant much face to face ,..
Can also say if you worked for me ( like that woud ever happen) ,. you would hit the door so hard and fast
you would clear the lobby and bounce twice when your loud mouth personage hit the side walk.

As I say I just LOVE to compete with guys lke you in business ,.. Steve wonder could see you commin

Further,.. I can count the people on one hand I realy dont like ,.
But I am now certian you are among them,
Thusly your genius-ness ,.. nothing you say in your life time is gonna do one thing to change or affect me.

Unless you csn tell me YOU have a clue about business and how to run one ,.. another gamble I woud take .

and I told ya twice ( short term memory ??) ,.
Ralph the Doc is the spelling cop ,. you simply do not not have the juice . YUK YUK

Yall have a nice day now ,. and try to relax yuk yuk !!!

Shhhheeeeiitttt
Just grab an old Stevens 311, outshoot the turds, and make them spend more time and money on shooting lessons!

Looks like Hillary needs to take a few minutes off and wax that upper lip... She's a classy piece of work for sure!

bluegraytx-
Sorry you missed my earlier post inre Hitlery
having hoof-in-mouth-syndrome and the mood of the American people. Once again, my little
Savage 10 is the most accurate out of the box rifle I have ever owned.
Now about yoyo the troll....

Muddog:
I notice you do not make any comments concerning the Savage rifles or any other firearms, but spew the liberal rhetoric that has become the mantra of those who will profit the most from nationalized healthcare.
Are you a shooter and outdoorsman sir, or a mouth for the far left?
How many of the 52 million without healthcare are illegal immigrants who shouldn't get a damn thing for free from our government? ILLEGAL means they are breaking the law by being here. I don't like the idea of one damn dime of my taxes helping a non U.S. citizen. That's my rag against nationalized healthcare. As for Iraq, 3 of my nephews were Marines who served time there. All 3 said we definitely needed to be there and were proud to have served. Have you ever served in the military? Probably not. Your kind is quite comfortable having someone else protect your ass and YOUR FREEDOM to criticize them for doing so.
Having gotten that off, does anyone have any experience with Verona shotguns made by Rizzini in Italy?
Michael

Wanting to talk about guns on a gun blog...

bad?

24. Pg 425: Gov’t determines who is euthanized and when.
25. Pg 469: Home medical services will be provided by ACORN.
26. Pg 489: All marriage and family counseling will be provided by gov’t...

Believable?

Sure, Burt.

Should we really praise the cheapest possible product out there weapons wise?? seriously.. the quality gunmakers wont have a market if only the cheapest possible designs are promoted.. some of us want superb quality, the best they can possible make currently, not the smallest common denominator of a quality rifle..
im used to rifles lasting 3 generations or more and ill keep to that philosophy to the day i die.. my grandpas krag joergensen in 6,5x55 krag is still operational and with a new stock would still be used for hunting if it was in my care nor my little brothers.. that my lakelander can shoot groups at 500 yards that he could with open sights at 200 yards is the overall improvement in addition to the higher gaspressure my gun can resist, but it was still made in the same facory as his gun in norway.. and i know my grandson is gonna hunt with mine if he got the family gene.. its a damn good firearm that can beat the sxit out of most current models.. especially at gaspressure..
thats why i bopught it..
Just gonna durabake it so i know its not gonna rust to sxit the next 50 years....:P

She proves herself more ignorant each and every day. I think I would actually hold a lot more respect for her if she just sat there and just nodded her head.

Although i enjoy Billary making an Ass out of her chubby self, it disturbs me that she represents this country. You can even watch this without volume and her body language reads..."I'm a disgusting human being" always.
As for the Savage rifles, i love'm and consider them every time i consider purchasing another rifle...Funtion not Fashion!
speaking of Fashion... ol' Billary needs a new look.

Ah say, Ah say, Ah say again,

"Trolls: Ten-hut!

Back under your bridges, March!"

LOL

Dont burn your pc bro, its full of toxic materials.. recycle it and after your body breaks down and u cant hunt no more your still gonna have hunting buddies online that u can be opinionated and stubborn towards:P:D

Me, horribly so and if my discussion partners wasnt too id be shxt out of luck cos i wouldnt have a challenge discussing things:D i like a challenge see:D
(and your too i know:D)
But anyway your about the same age as my uncle who id normally challenge in discussion and i like disagreeing with him cos it makes for fun conversation! Even when i really dont i still say nay to his yay cos it makes life interesting..
So dont u go burning any computers yet cos id make sure u got fined for pollution:D

Roses grow the best in the back of outhouses..!:P

Ah say,.. AH say ah say it a gin ,.
Most people I encounter from the southwest and west have what I call nuts and bolts common sense ,.
30-04 1/2-ish apparently the exception.
Something hard to find in places like Chi town or or even Millwaukee,.unless they maybe grew up on farm
first or for a while

But I gotta say from what Im reading ,..
seems like the mind is getting durn near as broken down as the the spindly legs,and skinney shanks not to mention the back and heart.

LOL

Well, yoyo yuk yuk, where do I start? Glad you enjoy my posts and recognize my self admitted genius. You and I make a fan club of two. I am flattered that you were so confounded that you had to show my post to a psychiatrist, I hope he is making progress with the hobgoblins in your little mind, and also having success in curing you of your addiction to Hoppe’s #9 and airplane glue cocktails.
Yes, I must admit I have been under psychiatric care. My shrink said that my mental profile was very like the fictional Dr. Hannibal Lecter, except I preferred guns to knives and eating animals to people. Nor do I like fava beans. Black-eyed peas is my style. Very boring, he said, I was so normal for a hunter that he gave up on me.
White male, ? Age group ? Threatened by what I do not understand? Okay, I will admit that I don’t understand a few things; the internal workings of the Browning Auto-5, the carburetor system on chainsaws, why a perfectly adjusted bait cast reel will backlash, why my .338 Win Mag. will not shoot cloverleaves at 200 yds…… but they do not threaten me. I just wait until dark, strip off all my clothes, and go outside and bay at the moon. All the neighborhood dogs join in, the neighbors call the cops, I hide in the bushes while the dogs continue to howl, and a fine time is had by me and the dogs. No one hurt, except the neighbors lose a little sleep.
Now a few other things I don’t understand are: Pinheads, demoncrats, trolls, left wing nuts, braggarts, card carrying socialists, ID10Ts, and little yapping dogs. No, I don’t feel threatened by these little things, I just plain don’t like them, try to avoid them, and if that is not possible, will stick a pin in their balloon. (I am certain you will recognize yourself in one of the above categories.)
Prone to anger rather than logic? Well, I will admit demoncrats bring out my worst side, and logic just don’t apply to them. I guess that kicking little yappy dogs falls under an angry reaction. You got me there.
Smaller stature? You got a problem with me being four feet nine inches tall? I will climb up on a chair and spit in your eye, buster!! Divorced four times. The Bookeeper said that if I ran off with one more Miss America look alike, she wasn’t taking me back. Damnit! Threatened by women? At least once a day, some gal threatens me with something. Especially taller ones, they have that down stroke with an iron skillet pretty well worked out, and I do my best to stay out of range!
Not overly educated? I’ll have you know, I graduated the third grade from Podunk grade school in Podunk, and still have the paper to prove it. Only went to third grade three years, yoyo, so you can tell your shrink he missed that one by a country mile.
Oh yeah, about the pill thing. I do not need to take near as many Rolaids since I quit reading Bella’s blathering posts, and now that I through reading yours, I probably won’t need any.
Now, get thee back under thy bridge! Begone!

ingebrigtsen-
Thanks for the offer. My .338 is a LH Winchester Mod 70 Classic Sporter. It started life with a magnum barrel, then I put on a muzzle brake. Trouble was, the dad-blame rig was too long to get in the house, much less carry! So then, I had the barrel shortened a bit and a smaller brake added. Back in it's long barrel configuration, it would shoot 215 gr. hand-loads into a 3" circle all day,@ 200 yds. as long as you didn't get the barrel hot. 2-3 shot strings. I was tuning it up for a New Mexico elk hunt, and couldn't get the accuracy I wanted. Then I discovered that the so called gunsmith that worked on the barrel had knocked out about half the bedding and the barrel was no longer free floated. Replaced the bedding, free floated the barrel, torqued the action to 35 in/lbs, and am now waiting for some 215 and 180 gr. loads from my reloader. The gun has always shot the lighter bullets well, have had some luck with 210 gr. Federal Premium. Some of the problem may be me getting frustrated and trying to hurry the process. Guess I need to howl with the dogs some more and be patient until I get the loads next week to wring it out some more.

re-bed it..._P

Well if u do find the tyme to change yer barrel and wanna try experimenting with something no gunsmith is currently gonna offer then this is my e-mail kai1@sidene.zzn.com give yer cureent gunsmith a conundrum to how hes gonna make it. but its not gonna violate any current silencer laws and is gonna reduce yer recoil bouth a fifth..
Btw set the world record shooting at a meter by meter target at 200 meters with a m98 original mauser be4 i was disqualified.. did something to it that most hunters do with theire civillian hunting mausers that wasnt legal by the military laws..
still got 23 hits on target with it in 30 seconds:P
world record is 21:P:))
If u wanna experiement then let me know ok.. the gun industry itself is a tigghtass community that dont like people thinking out of the box:P

You know if Hillary were any color other than white telling her to avoid men with harpoons would be a hate crime punishable by government run health care.

I would have replied sooner, but I was en route to Afghanistan. I want to weigh in on the health care discussion. I am a US citizen and legal Canadian resident. The health care in Canada is great and neither my wife nor I have experienced any of those "long waits" for care that Rush Limbaught and the insurance companies are trying to make everybody believe is the norm in Canada, the UK, and other countries with universal health coverage. The health insurance companies have been holding us hostage for decades: too-high rates, too many exclusions, and too little coverage for those things that they supposedly cover. In short, our health care situation is a mess. People who thought they had great coverage end up bankrupt due to medical bills. That is one worry Canadians don't have. Our citizens have been lied to by certain people about how well universal care works. I lived in Europe for 10 years and I saw it work there. No, no system is perfect . . . but being denied coverage and ending up bankrupt is what we are getting out of the American system. What's "superior" about that? If private health insurance is such a good idea, why, hell, let's "privatize" the police and fire departments, and the military! Then see what happens when you call 911 to report a fire, and are told that you "fire department insurance" doesn't cover oil and grease fires or "pre-existing" fires! Wait till you hear glass breaking downstairs and call the police department, only to be told that your "policy" has lapsed and that they cannot come to chase any burglars away! What about a privatized Army that decides to raise your "army insurance rates" by 12,000 percent in the face of an imminent enemy threat? No, there are certain things that cannot be left to the profit motive, and health care is one of them. Too many people are falling through the cracks. Too many people are being driven into financial ruin. It's time to clean up this immoral mess. Forget what Rush Limbaugh says because he is filthy rich and won't ever need an insurance policy! And don't listen to the lies being put out through proxies by the insurance companies . . . they have hired a virtual army of protesters to clog town hall meetings. But they won't be there for you when you get a $200,000 hospital bill AFTER Blue Cross has paid "its share."

Death Panels and ACORN? That's something that should come together real soon! LOL

The VA hospitals are a national disgrace, period.

Not sure,.. Chevjames or jameschev,. either way ,. you must be an enlightened human being.

Hearing of your fist hand experiance in the Canadian health care system only supports what I've been told by Canadian citizens I personally know. But because it was second
Had not stated here due to shrivled old geniuses like Mtn Hunter sawed of littel whack jobs ..like 30-04&1/2 ish. who I actually now think is a woman yuk yuk.

The unequivical BS I hear coming from some people
here in,.. is simply hard to believe.

I would even go so far as to say ( guessing of course) that certain of the individules that write in this blog,. and i bet some are the ones who are most rabid against any plan.
Much less a better plan where EVERYONE pays something either in tax or premium,.so a scale economy is achieved such everyone is covered,.don't actually have health coverage,.
And or in some cases are layed off and or just plain unemployed. Its just mind boggeling

I personally know an individul who is essentially destitute who refuses help from a democrat ,.becuase he
(the democrat ) disagrees with Rush and his fat a$$ed contingent.
The democrat is willing to help ,. but when asked.
The Rpublicans this guy backed with his life say ,.. sorry buddy ,. land of the free home of the brave ,. if you got it, you got it ,. if you don;t dont come knockin on our doors.

It also seesm those mentioed above are so against anyone getting anything that might cost them a nickle . They can't see the woods through the Sh!t brindle colored Rush Limbau glasses. Sent to them coutesy of the insurance companies,. and poloticians baught and paid for by said insurance companies.

They (simply cant ) realize they actually are paying now ( if they have coverage) and have been for years for the others that dont have coverage,. and waaaay the "H" too much.

Why one might ask ? ,. well her it is.
The one certain way to get free health care in america is this.
Divest your self of everthing , hold no assets or money.
Then when your too sick to walk they ,. they haul your toothless disease ridden body into the ER.
Thay have to take you ,..
and if you have nothing,.. all they can do is bill you,. with no money or assets,.. nothing they can attach,.
Sooner of later they write it off

That bill gets paid in the form of increased costs or premiums by people who can pay or those who really can't
But maybe still have some equity in their homes,
Which teh hospitals they will take in the form of sale procceds,. or the third mortgae you take out if someone will let you.

Upshot is you might make it or you might be dead due to lack of prevetativ care.
Which would have kept you out of the ER in the first place ,.
But hey ,. you got free medical care just befor you died o rbecame essntially a real dead weight on society.

Now your dead or just as good as you make no money,. pay no tax contribute nothing to society,. your a statistic .
and Petzal has one less genius to promote his agenda.

When with a plan to keep people from falling through the cracks landing in a lake of Sh!t and dieing or just floating around half dead costing money.
You would be working hopefully not toothless and doing the things people do .
So the rest of the buying ( yes buying) public becasue you buy health care gets stuck taking up the slack.

The cost keep going up because there is no competition to hold cost down.

So down go the bennifits up further go the cost
And the fat guyes sitting in a fat chair sipping fat drinks in a fat resort
Just shake their fat collectivge heads and say ,. I cannot F ing believe we get paid for doing this . How long ya think it'l be before they finally figure it out.

Last shoul have read
"if you fail to relieve" a crushing burden bestowed on many by few

Orwell was a prophet, yes he was.
By the way I am also a great Pogo fan and remember with sorrow the last strip to grace the newspaper. I have about 4 volumes of the wit and wisdom of Walt Kelly in comic form, I always liked the poetry a lot, so if you will permit....
Deck Us All with Boston Charlie
Walla Walla Wash and Kalamazoo
Nora's freezing on the trolly
Swaller Dollar cauliflower
Allygaroo.

Wa Mtnhunter,.. I can at times get up a head of steam,..
Just went through an audit and woke up this morning realizing
Have been for days just plain Pi$$ed off in general,.
The woman that woke me up this morning asked
"and how is Mr Happy to day " Smart a$$ed woman,. but I like her ,.
My stuff (records) are up to snuff ,.
Never let down in that venue so the audit in and of itself didnt really get to me,.
The auditor however as an idividual got under my skin.
I could go on,.. but will spare you

Because of my main business and another one I have an ownweship interest in but don't opperate
I am privey to some information others are generally not.
I can't go into much more detail than that.
But I can say this,.it is info that anyone could
get if they weanted to.
Its that they don't and in general never will. Because it would take some digging in an unfamilar sand box.

Thusly let me try this ,.. in order to take me (personally ) out of the frey.
My persnal coverage is 100% go any where for any reason with first dollar coverage. Which u might immagine aint cheap,.
But I aint the guy tryig to raise a family feed his
2 or 4 kids and still avoid strife in Camalot on the marital front. I aint the guy laid off last Jan who still can't find a job .Maybe with a sick kid or wife with medical costs virtually eating him and his family alive ,..
Not to F ing mention the single mothers ( not third generation welfare family ) I don't give a crap about people who wont work ,. but the women / mothers whos husband died, got killed or disabled
or just took off ,..
So what the F do I care is the question? If I'm set,.. who cares what happens ?

Its because I know of what I speak ,. because I started with virtually nothing
Its becasue I know first hand what its like not to starve ,.. but to have not quiet enough to east,. to go to bed feeling the empty knaw in your belly ,.. I know because I made the decision to forgo drinking milk so my babay sister could get enough. I know becasue I watched my embarassed mother try not to smile because her dentures broken and there wasn't enough money to get new ones ,. I kno what a houe feels like when the heat is kept at 50 degrees or less to save money and there arn't just quiet enough blankets to go around,. so you sleep cold and you sleep hungry.
I know that exact senario ,.
Winter in Wisconsin (in the late 50's)winters were bad then . Father out of work kid brother sick and nearly died.,..
He (my brother) by way of medical care got a "house call" from the local doc ,. he damn near died one night. They said were not sure but God could take your brother tonight so I should go to bed ,..see how he was in teh morning
I wasn't very old then but wild horses couldn't get me a way from that bed
I sat with him for over 36 hours straight praying to God not to take my brother ,. When he finally came around
I asked my mother why he wsn't in the hospital,.. Her reply was doctor said they could do more for him there.

But I can for dam sure tell you if we had had a national healh care system ,. the tic he has today due to fever would not exist. Fast forward 10 years it's 1968 the flue epidemic that killed thousands nearly killed me ,..motsly due to lack of affordable medical care .

Those days are gone for me noe ,.
I decided one day that im not gonna live under another man or woman ,
Wasnt gonna listen to people who don't give one flying "F" ,.. weather you spend Christmass in a shelter or in a warm house full of food.
So you call me what you want ,.. but what is going on now is wrong and immoral from a healthcare standpoint.

It aint just all about you or me its about us as country and where we are being led ,.. by the damn nose.

So what I know and have experianed drives me,.. to attempt to alert people to the the main topic ( other than guns)in this blogg .
Which is the fiscal strangle hold that will rival oil in the near future if we don't change it.

IE : see First hand info from above (chevjames)
This mirrors EXACTLY what Ive heard from Canadian citizens I know.But that would be second hand
chevjames is first hand.

If I was out of line to the extent that I miss read or missunderstood your comments (other than that referece to trolls yuk yuk,.. hard to mistake that ) I stand corrected and appologize ,. not for what I think. Or for that matter what I may or may not think of you.'
But for being incorrect.

Keep yer head down Pilgrim

Not hardly Mtn Hunter ,.. last guy tried to give me one of those ,..likley wont try again yuk yuk