I have previously stated my feelings regarding the re-introduction of alien wolves in the northwestern Rockies. I also understand why those of you who don't comprehend the broader picture of negative environmental impact as well as the insult to individuals who attempt to make a living raising livestock in this same area. By the same token in Wyoming we don't worry about drive by shootings, car jackings, or constant C-store robberies. I will definately be in line to purchase a wolf license if given the opportunity in this state. I am in no way hesitant to cap a wolf and in fact would fully enjoy the occassion. If I were not presently preparing to antelope hunt here I would entertain the notion to make a Idaho wolf hunt before Judge Molloy changes his mind. Frankly I don't understand why a person would feel all right walking down the city streets armed with a .45 obviously somehow sending a signal that they would shoot a human but would hold off on killing a wolf. Dave perhaps next you will suggest that we should support the right to "Keep and arm bears". I wonder if your level of concern and anquish would be enhanced if wolves were running around your property chasing and killing your barn cats plus harrassing your horses. Yes this did happen to me. Boy this will probably draw a negative or two...so be it.

Dave,
You know as well as I do why North American wolves do not eat people. It's because of the rules and regulations involved that require proof it was a wolf. Much of these rules involve human content in stomach and an eyewitness since the nature loving canine most probably stumbled across a dead body and needed a snack. We outdoorsmen do have a way of just dropping dead in wolf territory after all.

Dave, first off, my main interests in the biological sciences are with herpetology so if some dedicated studier of the furballs contradicts what I say, please feel free to believe them over me. Not knowing the particular instances you are talking about (I’ll just assume they are all true and not Dark Ages daydreams), here are my thoughts:

One must keep in mind that when dealing with Canis lupus, you are talking about more than one animal. The species consists of a great many different races (how many is widely open to debate) spread over a wide size scale and occupying different ecological niches. We are all familiar with the sight of timber wolves (Canis lupus occidentalis) taking down moose, but there are other smaller subspecies which occupy lower, more generalized ranks on the food chain (more like glorified coyotes). A number of these subspecies existed in the U.S. but were quickly exterminated as the West was won so now we are (mostly) left with the big game hunters. Wolves in Europe are in a similar state, having to take more small game (rabbits, birds, screaming children) than their cousins in the U.S. Whether this is due to a biological role or necessity as most of Europe’s game was eliminated before the Industrial Revolution, I don’t know. Either way, you now have a Europe inhabited by glorified coyotes. And here in the U.S., I have heard far more reports of coyotes attacking people than wolves. And in Asia, it’s similar. Most wolves there live in places like Kazakhstan were you do not find huge herds of deer or moose. In Japan, they used to have two subspecies of wolf (Canis lupus hattai) and (Canis lupus hodophilax), both now extinct. Both were also midgets by comparison to timber wolves yet there are quite a few reports from old Japan about attacks on people. Whether any of these is true, who knows? In a nutshell, the Old World is occupied by smaller, generalized feeders who have to take what they can get while America has the larger, specialized forms that while they easily tear a yuppie jogger to pieces, prefer what they are designed for.

Anyway, that’s my two cents on the subject. If anyone here has any other ideas, please throw them out.

The right to bear arms in America has set us apart, giving greater independence, dominion and self determination than could be had by citizens of any other nation in the world. I make use of my 2nd amendment rights whether I'm walking in the woods or in the urban jungle because I am determined not to be wolf poop nor a street crime casualty.

The point made that in Europe and Asia most persons were not armed with guns to defend against wolves is a good one. In addition, it is my understanding that most of alleged man-eating wolves existed in Europe during the middle ages. During that time the countryside had been wrecked from constant warfare for many, many years. The game, both large and small had long been exterminated by the often starving peasantry. The remaining wolves were also starving and probably turned to attacking human beings, there being nothing else left to prey upon. There has been quite a bit written about those awful times.You may be able to find a copy of a out-of-print book titled "The Wolves of Paris", which is about a famous wolf pack that terrorized the then walled city for a long time. The pack was led by a famous leader who I think was called "Courtaud" or something like that. Fascinating! There has certainly been more BS written and said about wolves than any other critter on the planet. Certainly they have never been a real threat in North America. The main threat has been human beings themselves! Us hunters don't want competition from ANYTHING! Tom

Yes, I completely sympathize with ranchers who have to contend with wolves. Yes, I believe said ranchers have every right to shoot said wolves if they come anywhere near their livestock. Yes, I support 100% the opening of a wolf season even though I myself don't plan on shooting any (deer taste better).

Yes, I do believe wolves should be reintroduced to all portions of their former which can support them, including my own Virginia. While I understand the problems faced by ranchers, I simply cannot explain to people who have not taken an introductory level biology course the concept of keystone species, ecological balance, etc. Wolves have been on this continent for hundreds of thousands of years and during this time before Clovis Culture, ranchers, or Sarah Palin did NOT wipe out elk, sheep, or any of the other big game that certain individuals are now wetting their pants over. The problems caused to game today by wolves are not due to the natural presence of the wolves in the ecosystem but to the unnatural presence of environmentalists and judges, none of whom have ever taken those biology classes I mentioned. The environmental problems we are experiencing are not due to the presence of a predator which has been here way before us but by the stupidity and inability of the powers that be to manage the ecosystem AS A WHOLE (wolves included). Wolves should be a part of the ecosystem. They NEED to be. Allow the availability of game influenced by the wolves themselves combined with the influence of another predator (a .300 Winchester magnum) to manage their numbers. But forget all this bullcrap talk about eliminating wolves or stopping reintroduction. Its going to happen one way of another.

Wow, Dave, this disjointed rant reaches new heights in bargain shopping. For a single price of admission ($0.00), we got knives, wolves, and a hilarious hissy fit: three, count em, three topics for the low low price of logging on to F&S.

Might have something to do with attitude as well ... Americans have, historically, tried to master their environment, while some other cultures seem to be more subject to their environment. In a way, the difference between predator and prey.

Darwin dictated that wolves stay away from the pilgrim's blunderbuss. America has always been heavily armed... the only wolves that survived did so by hiding from us. I am with you on the hunt, what's the preferred wolf cartridge/caliber? Buckshot at 20 paces?

All this talk of wolves and their impact on elk and such got me thinking on the impact of domestic cats on wildlife. I started reading on the net and found that they can be a huge problem. Check out abcbirds.org. Domestic cats are not native to the US, benefit from veterinary care, food and shelter and indulge in 'sport killing'.

I been to Arizona, it was too damn hot for me, but I wouldn't call it a boycott. As far as thew guy with the AR at the "town Meeting" I was just amused. Used to be back here in New England that bringing your firearm was REQUIRED at town meeting and at CHURCH. Yep, they did things right back in 1683. I'd be all for making guns manditory at government functions, it would still be illegal to shoot anything without dire neccessity, but think how much more polite folks would be...I have often mused that Southerners are often more polite than Northerners because The Code Duello hung on longer there than in the North. But so few men have "Honor" today anyway...
As far as shooting wolves go, If a pack was attacking my sheep, Bang Bang! Otherwise the wolf makes the deer strong so it has been said.
One reason why there are so few reports of man eating wolves is they are canids and we likely smell (and taste) bad to them. One constant factor in most European tales of wolf attacks is desperation, there is famine or it is deepest winter. Europe had been overhunted a millenia before North America, large animals still common here were long extinct or very rare in Europe. Best example is the Bison or Wisent when found in Poland, nearly identical species separated by thousands of miles. Game was very plentiful here till hunters with firearms changed the arithmatic. Now that people lack the driving force of neccesity and have lived comfortable for a few decades, forgetting what drove their forefathers into the woods, hunting is declining. So with diminished pressure the game returns and Lo! we find that some places NEED wolves which must therefore be imported!

huntergatherer-
Apparently you are unable to read. Just for your edification, I will re post the link I posted above, and again, it would behoove you to read what it takes to be a "documented wolf attack." The accounts Mr. T. R. Mader cites occur from the 1830s through 1989. Some were documented by John James Audubon. Read and learn before you sound off via your keyboard.

www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html

Cuz we have more gunz.

Anyone know a good recipe for wolf jerky?? I've heard from some folks in Minnesota that they taste like chicken.

One more thing, when I moved to Phoenix back in June 1990, I would walk the neighborhood which had several break-ins per week. After one week it all stopped, know why? When I walked the neighborhood, I had my Oversize German Shorthair named Riffraff and a Ruger 45ACP on my hip and the neighbors welcomed it and so did the Phoenix PD!!!

GO FIGURE!

In Europe in the Middle Ages, another name for European was 'peasant.' Peasants didn't go armed in most European countries; they were not allowed to own weapons. That was for the royalty. Nor were they allowed to hunt. They were allowed to die, though, of warfare, famine, and plague, and leave their bodies all over the place for wolves and large predators to sample. Once said predators tasted people and realized we could be a nourishing source of protein, it was a small jump to taking their meat on the wing.

American bipeds, Native and immigrant alike, did go armed, and so the wolves et al kept their distance. But have you noticed that now that today's country dwellers (suburbanites) seldom go heeled, the so-called 'instinctive fear of man' in animals seems no longer to exist? Not good for Californian joggers in cougar country.

As far as wolves in Europe becoming used to human flesh from all the wars, I don't quite buy it. There have been plenty such conflicts in modern times and there is no indication it as affected the predatory roles of any species. In the later decades of the 19th Century, two Boer Wars, the Zulu War, and a number of lesser conflicts littered southern Africa with bodies but their is no indication the already ornery wildlife there became any more aggressive.

Wolves? The animal’s effect on Man is hard-wired into the DNA. There’s documentation to separate fact from myth.

I think many of the bloggers are mistaken in dismissing the Europeans and their battle with wolf packs, especially in Spain, Southern France, and the Welsh-England border. It would seem American wolf packs lacked these European wolves courage and ferocity, unless driven by desperation. This is likely the answer to DP’s remark on why so little in this country on man-killing wolves.

The Russian wolves appear to be in a class by themselves. I wouldn’t have wanted to deal with their wolf packs.

USA has a real rogue’s gallery of cattle-killing wolves. The most infamous was the Custer Wolf of Wyoming and South Dakota.

Elmer Keith must have had considerable knowledge wolf history. I recall he did an interview somewhere on the subject in the early ‘60’s.

I threw away about 20 or so of his travel guides as soon as I read this, told the lady that runs my favorite bookstore, she pulled them of her shelve and will return them for credit.

huntergatherer, go away and eat something on the human side is my guess.

Its obvious Mr. Frommer doesn’t know the gun laws in Arizona and the people who live there. Yes it’s legal to open carry and carry a gun inside of your vehicle as long it is contained even if loaded. You can have it in a holster concealed anyplace you want. The key word here is contained!

As far as individuals rallying with firearms peacefully, that’s a constitutional right as I see it. I strongly believe its time to start carrying in Church like the good old’ days!

Did you notice the fella carrying the AR15? The media gave everyone the impression other than he was Black!

“Our job is to give people not what they want, but what we decide they ought to have.”
-Richard Salant, former President of CBS News

GO FIGURE!

Last week I called Congressman’s Boozman’s office on another mater and I basically ended my call with this statement.

“I believe in the 2nd Amendment and what they did in Phoenix was just. However, I don’t feel the need to arm myself in the presence of Congressman’s Boozman!”

His staff worker was relived with what I said and I followed up with “If I do feel the need to arm myself, is to protect Congressman’s Boozman!”

From Clays archives of bookmarks, places, information and things to read

“Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government.”
-James Madison

“We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”
-Abraham Lincoln

Did Abraham Lincoln say that, WOW! The same President Obama was quoting!

CLAY COOP

What in the world were you shooting that the case could hold 160 grains of 777?

why humans have not been eaten much here, i think, is because for some reason, our forefathers just loved to shoot stuff to the virge of extinction! LOL! really though, they did do an excellent job of reducing the number of dangerous (to humans) animals in this country. i do not know if it was stricktly for the bounty money, or they just wanted something to shoot. one thing is for sure, if there were no laws in this country, car-deer crashes would almost be a thing of the past. same goes for most "game species". we would just desimate the overwhelming population of almost every non human species in this country. true sportsman are not this way. but there are many people without regaud for the well being of our animal freinds. that is why every state has some sort of natural resorses agency. personally, i wouldn't shoot a wolf, cougar, lynx, bobcat, or bear, unless i felt threatend. if it comes down to my life, or his, i am going to try me best to make it his instead of mine. as for shooting anything that moves, i can think of a few pests i would like to see their population reduced. but not to the virge of extinction!

ranger2 you stated exactly the problem with Wyoming's proposed management program just as some of us have been saying for some time. It goes even further in that these same disgruntled ranchers have a far reaching effect on the powers that be in this state who tend to go along with these ranchers. Its the old money and politics game at work as usual. I am not sure that Wyoming will have a wolf season until these people stop pushing for predator control and accept a plan like Idaho and Montana. Again most folks here want wolf management and not eradication, however some people prefer all of the wolves killed...today. Everyone knows that will not fly.
Bella I gave you the YES to offset someone's NO as I enjoyed your narative. I am wondering where in New England the NEED for your wolves might be. Could you be more geographically specific?

Have you seen the video's of the "protected" bears in NJ?
They stroll thru peoples yards and the same pansy a$$ed liberals who banned the bear hunts are now afraid to go outside for fear they or their children will become Bear Chow!

I LOVE IT! Now they are crying about having too many bears around! Well, DUHhhhhh, let people hunt them like the Game Commission said was needed years ago and perhaps there will be enough room for them all to live in the woods, instead of under your home!

The wolf population could go the same way if not thinned out, I'm all for regulated hunting of them, Bear tastes good, like beef only a bit fattier tasting, I imagine wolf may taste similar.

In Germany a hunter is allowed to shoot either cats or dogs running in the woods out of control, I have seen it done although as a guest I never fired at them myself,

Perhaps the amount of American who were armed back in the day... lol

Also, when did wolves eat people in Europe. We had more wolves in North American in the early 1900s than Europe had by the mid 1700s. So someone being attacked by a wolf in Europe would seem to provide just the opposite of your argument.