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Explaining American Rifle Ammo Designations

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August 11, 2011

Explaining American Rifle Ammo Designations

By Phil Bourjaily

On today’s Gun Nuts TV clip, Dave explains the system by which centerfire cartridges are named. I have to admit, I am envious of gun writers like Dave who were smart enough to choose rifles as their primary subject matter. There is a seemingly endless supply of rifle calibers to write about as opposed to only six shotgun gauges.

In an ideal world there would be as many shotgun gauges as there are rifle calibers so I would never run out of column material. I could write “The 15 ½ Gauge vs. the 15.375x76mm” then follow up with “Does Remington’s New 13 Gauge make the 12 Obsolete?” Alas, I chose poorly.

Here’s Dave to explain cartridge terminology.

http://ak.c.ooyala.com/51OHEwYzqwpHh1qr7LYKsPHt4MXd2ulR/Ut_HKthATH4eww8X4xMDoxOjA4MTsiGN

Comments (33)

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from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

When does the David Petzal 30 Cal Thunder****** goes into production? Did some ballistic research and what I come up wit, is a cartridge your zero in instead of 200 yards, 440 yards. But of course, finding a bullet, cartridge and barrel with the right metallurgy to withstand the velocity at super hypervelocity, pressure and heat (barrel erosion etc)will have to be taken up by NASA. But since NASA is out of business, don't be looking for it any time soon.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Time for Rail Gun Technology, YA! THAT's IT!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tim Covington wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

The problem with the European system is what do you do when the dimensions are the same? Take various 30 caliber rounds based on a necked up 223 Remington case. The bullets are the same size and the cases are the same length. However, they have different shoulders and/or pressure ratings.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

The all-time FUBAR designations that I have seen is the 6.5x.284 Norma or 7mm-08. WTH is that supposed to designate? Definitely no rhyme or reason there. 8x57 Mausers with two different bullet diameters? David is right, no common sense at all. Just do it like Lazzeroni -- call it anything you like!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bernie wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Dave, I am reminded of an article you wrote for FIELD & STREAM a few years ago when you said something to the effect that one learns cartridge designations by the time he is nine years old, or the person doesn't learn them at all. Exploring the subject certainly takes us into the world of the bizarre and arcane.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

the 6,5x55 is a good example of european cartridge designation.. there is the 6,5x55 swedish mauser and the 6,5x55 krag.. only real difference is the load pressure.. so the surname is based on what weapon the round was originally made for. ;) and the 6,5/284 norma is named so cos its a 6,5 bullet in a necked down 284 casing(american) first factory loaded by norma.. so its named so from mixing european and american designations ;) the rest is alot more logical than the american loudenboomers and such.. might even tell yall my recipy for my 7x59 one day :P:D

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bellringer wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Cartridge designations are really simple, read the caliber on the rifle, buy ammo that reads the same, load, shoot and enjoy.

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from Drew McClure wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Phil, I didn't know it was you that chose the shotgun writer designation, I think that is just what everyone would have to tell Dave so that he wouldn't despise you, or the thought of having an on hand potential replacement lead "Gun Editor."

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from pmariman wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

David, How do you send a reader question to you directly?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from jim in nc wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Phil:
You'd have more to write about if you talked about buckshot every now and then. I hunt deer with other guys in relatively close proximity, in thick cover (i.e, close shots), and we feel that buckshot is safer than rifles or slugs and just as effective. Do you agree? If so (and even if not), how about you discuss some different buckshot loads for patterning, size (OO,OOO,O, etc.) velocity, etc? And please don't dismiss us as a bunch of knuckle-dragging rednecks who should be shooting driven pheasant with Holland & Hollands.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Fella on TV made his own rail gun. Table about 2'x3' full of what looked like 6 volt batteries, the rail was about 2 foot long with two rails about an inch wide and inch apart and the projectile 1 inch square had enough recoil to really rock the table and the impact was horrendous!

WOW!

Might build one myself!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jim in Mo wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Phil, I think your lucky. Rifle and caliber designations gets dizzying from the cartidges of the world but shotgun shells, cases and gauges is all American to most of us. JMO

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckstopper wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Phil,
You can be like Col. Charles Askins and write about any firearm you want. I like it when you combine your hunting trips with your shotgun writing.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Bellringer has made a good observation, but there would be a few exceptions, such as a European-made pistol marked 7.65mm.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Sorry, but I lost my head there for a minute and forgot we were talking about rifles.
I should have said "English-made rifles marked .275 Rigby."

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from focusfront wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Phil:

You have a tougher job than Dave; every shotgun IS a hundred calibers in one. Talk 12 ga.; by the time you explain your reasons for using a 2 3/4" over a 3" or 3 1/2" shell, in shot sizes from dust to two ounce slug, at velocities from 1000 fps to 1500 fps, plastic or paper hull, fiber or plastic or no shot wad/ cup, out of a single barrel (or one of two) from any sort of action choked from spreader to turkey, Dave has his blaze orange on and has been in his deer stand for half an hour.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from focusfront wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

With his ULA .257 Scramjet, of course.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

.357 Magnum, .38 (?!?) Special, 9mm Luger., .358 Norma, Whelen, Winchester, etc. - all .35 caliber, only some are the same diameter.

.44 Magnum is .429. I guess no one wants a .43 or .42 Magnum? Sounds extra silly next to a .41 Magnum that is actually .41...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

This is blasphemy, but the .30-06 is pretty damn FUBAR if 7mm-08 and 6.5-284 Norma are FUBAR at all. It makes even less sense.

I really enjoy how they used to go by the land diameter - hence the .270 and .300 Magnums, but now go with groove diameter. I guess I'm glad we don't have a .277 Winchester. This leaves room for a wicked hot .277 Remington though, doesn't it? I'd buy it if it smoked the .270 WSM and beat the .270 Wby.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

what the Germans did to the 7.92x57 (.318 and .323) isn't as bad as the mix and match job the French and the Japanese did to their military ammunition. How about cartridges having the same designation but with one rimless and one semi-rimmed? Thank God the Japs didn't get their act together.

Regarding the .318 diameter 7.92, since the switch to higher-velocity, bigger-diameter, spitzer .323 happened in about 1905, and that most of the millions of military Mausers were manufactured in both WW1 and WW2 (both of which took place after the "switch"), what are the chances that you would encounter a still-in-firing-condition Mauser with a .318 caliber? Maybe the European ammo companies thought they'd just produce the hotter stuff in .323. Which, of course, they do.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Shane,
Nobody has attempted to beat the .270Weatherby, not even Lazzeroni.

My guess is the reason for that is because only "Winchester" .270's sell (original .270 and .270WSM). No sense beating the .270 Weatherby if the cartridge won't sell.

My next guess is: nobody has attempted to beat the .270 Weatherby because it is hard to do. I look at the Hodgdon Manual's loads for the .270Wby with IMR-7828 powder and Nosler Partitions and my nose bleeds. Norma's factory loads aren't bad either.

(BTW, the 7mm Weatherby is awesome too. But at least it is beatable.)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Well i predict u CAN beat the weatherby 270 with a 375 ruger case necked down by about 150fps.. then add another 200fps average for using hornady sp powder and where talking 3600fps with 140 grain bullets.. and u can do it in a standard lenght action..

but is it a 277/375 ruger?
270-375 ruger?
6.8/375 ruger?
7/375 ruger?
6.8x65,5 ruger?
270 WRUM (whizbang ruger ultra magnum)

well we wont know till someone actually makes it, first come first served in the name department:P and the 7mm necked down 375 is already taken by my friend bear and goes 3400 with 140 grainers without hornady sp powder so the rest is not guesswork:P

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from dtownley wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Focusfront, your right, we would be forever talking, high & low brass or even, all brass, brass plated steel, lead, steel, bismuth, tungsten, then #12 - TTT, Buckshot - Slug - sabot - fletchet ? I, 12ga, 20ga,&.410 the last two take 3" but Euro 32 & 24 ? I know some things about shot shells and still feel I don't know JACK ? On the other hand, rifle/pistol I feel I sing pretty well with the choir but that took from 82-91 reading ODL, FS, NAHC, G&A, Am.Hunter & Rifleman and those are just journals but very good. Books written by Keith, O'Connor, Aagaard, Askins, ect. Shotguns & Shells whew ! I hope I live that long ? 13yrs at the gun shows in Tx. helped. Hope the names & spelling are close, did someone say PUNT GUN ? HOWDAH PISTOL ? GYRO-JET ? PARADOX GUN ? DRILLING ? Plenty to talk about Phil ? I've been away from the shows for 6yrs and have been to two in the last 3 mo. and feel a bit like a cherry again. But gun dealers love to see that lost look and start to spew everything they know, I listen and learn a little new stuff here and there and grey file it !

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

I find the history of American cartidge names quite interesting and enjoyed sharing my knowledge with customers when I worked at Dick's Sporting Goods.
I discovered during that time I was TRUELY a GUN NUT when I found out this totally fasinated me!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from FirstBubba wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Wow! Who knew!
Why not just neck down a .460 Wby to shoot phonograph needles?
Touch it off and it will whistle like a tea kettle for 3 days!

Bubba

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tc505 wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

european designations do get quite dizzying with their array of metric numbers, but you want something really confusing??? try black powder!! recently looking for lead molds I found out that the .50 is not actually a .50 but more in the .44 cal range! then I found out about the 45/70 and then on up to the 50/100 and I think there was one a little higher up than that. meaning that the first number is the calibre and the second is the amount of powder load to push the thing down range. best thing to do here is stick with the all american designations if you can and be satisfied with them. we have a greater variety of calibres than any of those and probably way better load performance than they can ever get.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

there is a whole bunch of calibres u americans have probably never heard of and on average european guns r way more accurate out of the box. in addition european ammomanufacturers gives theire load data in 24 inch barrels while u americans use 26 inch riflebarrels :P
yer just cheating as usual to make yourself feel better :P:D and metric measurements can be tough i guess for the average redneck ;) :D completely mindboggling to divide or add by ten for each measure :P lol

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

ingebrigsten,

Where is your pal Yohan? Haven't seen his ramblings in a long time. Your insulting arrogance has not changed nor humor improved....

-2 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

touch a nerve there WAM ?? :P all this metric stuff get confusing for ya?? :D

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

you ain't seen nuthin' yet until you've seen David Dardick's tround

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardick_tround

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from wgiles wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Actually, the 7mm-08 does make sense, since it's the .308 case necked down to 7mm. There is a whole family of cartridges based on the .308 Winchester which could be renamed to make it simpler.

The .243 Winchester would be the 6mm-08
The .260 Remington would be the 6.5mm-08

and so forth.

30-06 is an abbreviation of the military 30 caliber, model 1906, so it makes plenty of sense.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from action1250 wrote 2 years 35 weeks ago

Never heard so many experts in my life!
Dead is dead and I agree with the gentleman that said look at the barrel, buy what it says and have a good time!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from dtownley wrote 2 years 35 weeks ago

This is not the dead is dead thread, is it ?(not that it doesn't have its place). This is a GUN NUT thread. If there were 4 cartridges I could see exactly where your coming from .22lr, .38-40 Win, .30-06 Govt., 12 Ga.. Accidents happen 7mmExpress 7mmRemMag, this is written in a couple of hunter safety course handbooks. Guys, yes us ! have had to turn around and go the other way 'cause the sign was not wrong. As simple as it is bellringer & action1250 are here for a reason, grey matter fallout or laughs. Like Ralph the rifleman wrote, its fascinating.

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from Bellringer wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Cartridge designations are really simple, read the caliber on the rifle, buy ammo that reads the same, load, shoot and enjoy.

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Time for Rail Gun Technology, YA! THAT's IT!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

When does the David Petzal 30 Cal Thunder****** goes into production? Did some ballistic research and what I come up wit, is a cartridge your zero in instead of 200 yards, 440 yards. But of course, finding a bullet, cartridge and barrel with the right metallurgy to withstand the velocity at super hypervelocity, pressure and heat (barrel erosion etc)will have to be taken up by NASA. But since NASA is out of business, don't be looking for it any time soon.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

there is a whole bunch of calibres u americans have probably never heard of and on average european guns r way more accurate out of the box. in addition european ammomanufacturers gives theire load data in 24 inch barrels while u americans use 26 inch riflebarrels :P
yer just cheating as usual to make yourself feel better :P:D and metric measurements can be tough i guess for the average redneck ;) :D completely mindboggling to divide or add by ten for each measure :P lol

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tim Covington wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

The problem with the European system is what do you do when the dimensions are the same? Take various 30 caliber rounds based on a necked up 223 Remington case. The bullets are the same size and the cases are the same length. However, they have different shoulders and/or pressure ratings.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Drew McClure wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Phil, I didn't know it was you that chose the shotgun writer designation, I think that is just what everyone would have to tell Dave so that he wouldn't despise you, or the thought of having an on hand potential replacement lead "Gun Editor."

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jim in nc wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Phil:
You'd have more to write about if you talked about buckshot every now and then. I hunt deer with other guys in relatively close proximity, in thick cover (i.e, close shots), and we feel that buckshot is safer than rifles or slugs and just as effective. Do you agree? If so (and even if not), how about you discuss some different buckshot loads for patterning, size (OO,OOO,O, etc.) velocity, etc? And please don't dismiss us as a bunch of knuckle-dragging rednecks who should be shooting driven pheasant with Holland & Hollands.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from focusfront wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Phil:

You have a tougher job than Dave; every shotgun IS a hundred calibers in one. Talk 12 ga.; by the time you explain your reasons for using a 2 3/4" over a 3" or 3 1/2" shell, in shot sizes from dust to two ounce slug, at velocities from 1000 fps to 1500 fps, plastic or paper hull, fiber or plastic or no shot wad/ cup, out of a single barrel (or one of two) from any sort of action choked from spreader to turkey, Dave has his blaze orange on and has been in his deer stand for half an hour.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from focusfront wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

With his ULA .257 Scramjet, of course.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Shane,
Nobody has attempted to beat the .270Weatherby, not even Lazzeroni.

My guess is the reason for that is because only "Winchester" .270's sell (original .270 and .270WSM). No sense beating the .270 Weatherby if the cartridge won't sell.

My next guess is: nobody has attempted to beat the .270 Weatherby because it is hard to do. I look at the Hodgdon Manual's loads for the .270Wby with IMR-7828 powder and Nosler Partitions and my nose bleeds. Norma's factory loads aren't bad either.

(BTW, the 7mm Weatherby is awesome too. But at least it is beatable.)

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Well i predict u CAN beat the weatherby 270 with a 375 ruger case necked down by about 150fps.. then add another 200fps average for using hornady sp powder and where talking 3600fps with 140 grain bullets.. and u can do it in a standard lenght action..

but is it a 277/375 ruger?
270-375 ruger?
6.8/375 ruger?
7/375 ruger?
6.8x65,5 ruger?
270 WRUM (whizbang ruger ultra magnum)

well we wont know till someone actually makes it, first come first served in the name department:P and the 7mm necked down 375 is already taken by my friend bear and goes 3400 with 140 grainers without hornady sp powder so the rest is not guesswork:P

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from dtownley wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Focusfront, your right, we would be forever talking, high & low brass or even, all brass, brass plated steel, lead, steel, bismuth, tungsten, then #12 - TTT, Buckshot - Slug - sabot - fletchet ? I, 12ga, 20ga,&.410 the last two take 3" but Euro 32 & 24 ? I know some things about shot shells and still feel I don't know JACK ? On the other hand, rifle/pistol I feel I sing pretty well with the choir but that took from 82-91 reading ODL, FS, NAHC, G&A, Am.Hunter & Rifleman and those are just journals but very good. Books written by Keith, O'Connor, Aagaard, Askins, ect. Shotguns & Shells whew ! I hope I live that long ? 13yrs at the gun shows in Tx. helped. Hope the names & spelling are close, did someone say PUNT GUN ? HOWDAH PISTOL ? GYRO-JET ? PARADOX GUN ? DRILLING ? Plenty to talk about Phil ? I've been away from the shows for 6yrs and have been to two in the last 3 mo. and feel a bit like a cherry again. But gun dealers love to see that lost look and start to spew everything they know, I listen and learn a little new stuff here and there and grey file it !

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

I find the history of American cartidge names quite interesting and enjoyed sharing my knowledge with customers when I worked at Dick's Sporting Goods.
I discovered during that time I was TRUELY a GUN NUT when I found out this totally fasinated me!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tc505 wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

european designations do get quite dizzying with their array of metric numbers, but you want something really confusing??? try black powder!! recently looking for lead molds I found out that the .50 is not actually a .50 but more in the .44 cal range! then I found out about the 45/70 and then on up to the 50/100 and I think there was one a little higher up than that. meaning that the first number is the calibre and the second is the amount of powder load to push the thing down range. best thing to do here is stick with the all american designations if you can and be satisfied with them. we have a greater variety of calibres than any of those and probably way better load performance than they can ever get.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from wgiles wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Actually, the 7mm-08 does make sense, since it's the .308 case necked down to 7mm. There is a whole family of cartridges based on the .308 Winchester which could be renamed to make it simpler.

The .243 Winchester would be the 6mm-08
The .260 Remington would be the 6.5mm-08

and so forth.

30-06 is an abbreviation of the military 30 caliber, model 1906, so it makes plenty of sense.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

The all-time FUBAR designations that I have seen is the 6.5x.284 Norma or 7mm-08. WTH is that supposed to designate? Definitely no rhyme or reason there. 8x57 Mausers with two different bullet diameters? David is right, no common sense at all. Just do it like Lazzeroni -- call it anything you like!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Bernie wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Dave, I am reminded of an article you wrote for FIELD & STREAM a few years ago when you said something to the effect that one learns cartridge designations by the time he is nine years old, or the person doesn't learn them at all. Exploring the subject certainly takes us into the world of the bizarre and arcane.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

the 6,5x55 is a good example of european cartridge designation.. there is the 6,5x55 swedish mauser and the 6,5x55 krag.. only real difference is the load pressure.. so the surname is based on what weapon the round was originally made for. ;) and the 6,5/284 norma is named so cos its a 6,5 bullet in a necked down 284 casing(american) first factory loaded by norma.. so its named so from mixing european and american designations ;) the rest is alot more logical than the american loudenboomers and such.. might even tell yall my recipy for my 7x59 one day :P:D

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from pmariman wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

David, How do you send a reader question to you directly?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Fella on TV made his own rail gun. Table about 2'x3' full of what looked like 6 volt batteries, the rail was about 2 foot long with two rails about an inch wide and inch apart and the projectile 1 inch square had enough recoil to really rock the table and the impact was horrendous!

WOW!

Might build one myself!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jim in Mo wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Phil, I think your lucky. Rifle and caliber designations gets dizzying from the cartidges of the world but shotgun shells, cases and gauges is all American to most of us. JMO

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckstopper wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Phil,
You can be like Col. Charles Askins and write about any firearm you want. I like it when you combine your hunting trips with your shotgun writing.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Bellringer has made a good observation, but there would be a few exceptions, such as a European-made pistol marked 7.65mm.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Sorry, but I lost my head there for a minute and forgot we were talking about rifles.
I should have said "English-made rifles marked .275 Rigby."

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

.357 Magnum, .38 (?!?) Special, 9mm Luger., .358 Norma, Whelen, Winchester, etc. - all .35 caliber, only some are the same diameter.

.44 Magnum is .429. I guess no one wants a .43 or .42 Magnum? Sounds extra silly next to a .41 Magnum that is actually .41...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

what the Germans did to the 7.92x57 (.318 and .323) isn't as bad as the mix and match job the French and the Japanese did to their military ammunition. How about cartridges having the same designation but with one rimless and one semi-rimmed? Thank God the Japs didn't get their act together.

Regarding the .318 diameter 7.92, since the switch to higher-velocity, bigger-diameter, spitzer .323 happened in about 1905, and that most of the millions of military Mausers were manufactured in both WW1 and WW2 (both of which took place after the "switch"), what are the chances that you would encounter a still-in-firing-condition Mauser with a .318 caliber? Maybe the European ammo companies thought they'd just produce the hotter stuff in .323. Which, of course, they do.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from FirstBubba wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

Wow! Who knew!
Why not just neck down a .460 Wby to shoot phonograph needles?
Touch it off and it will whistle like a tea kettle for 3 days!

Bubba

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from shane wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

This is blasphemy, but the .30-06 is pretty damn FUBAR if 7mm-08 and 6.5-284 Norma are FUBAR at all. It makes even less sense.

I really enjoy how they used to go by the land diameter - hence the .270 and .300 Magnums, but now go with groove diameter. I guess I'm glad we don't have a .277 Winchester. This leaves room for a wicked hot .277 Remington though, doesn't it? I'd buy it if it smoked the .270 WSM and beat the .270 Wby.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

touch a nerve there WAM ?? :P all this metric stuff get confusing for ya?? :D

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

you ain't seen nuthin' yet until you've seen David Dardick's tround

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardick_tround

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from action1250 wrote 2 years 35 weeks ago

Never heard so many experts in my life!
Dead is dead and I agree with the gentleman that said look at the barrel, buy what it says and have a good time!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from dtownley wrote 2 years 35 weeks ago

This is not the dead is dead thread, is it ?(not that it doesn't have its place). This is a GUN NUT thread. If there were 4 cartridges I could see exactly where your coming from .22lr, .38-40 Win, .30-06 Govt., 12 Ga.. Accidents happen 7mmExpress 7mmRemMag, this is written in a couple of hunter safety course handbooks. Guys, yes us ! have had to turn around and go the other way 'cause the sign was not wrong. As simple as it is bellringer & action1250 are here for a reason, grey matter fallout or laughs. Like Ralph the rifleman wrote, its fascinating.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 2 years 36 weeks ago

ingebrigsten,

Where is your pal Yohan? Haven't seen his ramblings in a long time. Your insulting arrogance has not changed nor humor improved....

-2 Good Comment? | | Report

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