



January 24, 2012
Polymer Casings: The Future of Ammo?
By The Editors
These rounds might mark the end of the metal casing. The polymer casing significantly reduces ammunition weight while retaining its accuracy--meaning you can carry more ammo during your next hunt.
Comments (42)
Can they be reloaded?
If its not cheaper than brass case ammo, I don't think the civilian market will really buy a bunch of this stuff. It's still pretty cool though.
If they expand into the pistol market and make .45ACP cheaper than Winchester White Box, then maybe I will buy some.
good point pbshooter, they would also reduce metal it takes to make casings.
That last comment was phrased really dumb. I meant by using less metal they would be more eco-friendy, especially if they could be reused or recycled.
I bet the ID wall thickness is more than brass thus limiting powder charges.
The weight of my ammo is not a factor when hunting. I don't carry that much. Who does?
Let me know if im wrong but isn't polymer and petromlium product? if i am right, with the amount that most people shoot myself included, the gas of gas and ammo would go up i dont want eithier one.
Probably ought not be too shy about jumping on the band wagon. I remember when everyone was poo poo-ing the "plastic guns". What manufacturer isn't producing them now?
@Savageshot: "Polymer" is a general chemical term for materials made up of repeating, linked, molecules, so not exclusively refering to petroleum based products.
I would suppose that all synthetic polymers made today are petroleum based but in the grand scheme of the world of plastics that we live in -- I expect that other than the reloading issue these cases are far cheaper than brass.
I should say, "these cases are far cheaper to produce than brass"... Their actual cash value will be determined by the market.
Good Idea I guess. But I don't hunt with anymore than 5 rounds with me usualy. I'm guessing that if I were on a backpack hunt in a really wild place I'd like more but the I've never done that and likely wont do that so I'm worried about ammo wieght. Still a good idea just not one I need to worry about
well if i can't reload them how eco-friendley can they be?. i can reload one case meny times. i never leve my brass when shoting.. this stuff if not reloadable will be left all over the place just like shot gun shells are now. messy and giveing shooters a bad name! not good for the envirment or the sport..
I think I'll wait till casings become edible after firing. Now that would be something to chew on!
When you travel over seas to hunt, you are only allowed 11 kilograms per rifle. That equates to about 2 boxes of 458 win mag ammo. On a 21 day Safari, that is not much ammo.
sounds interesting but i need to know more. can it be
reloaded, how does it handle the pressure of reloads. what about the littering aspect - i understand polymer will be around for a long time before it degrades.
i guess if the only advantage is weight, for the average
shooter it may not be much of a factor. more research and
field trials are necessary to see where it might fit in
I can see those not being able to reload. Although there light weight they're probably easy to break to. I wonder how they stand up to the heat of firing.
Way too expensive for me. I'm a P.D. shooter and I reload only. Other than rimfire I havn't bought a factory round in decades. If it's not reloadable it will die on the vine. I can see this stuff all over the range
Nothing really new. USRAC (or something like that) had plastic .38's that were reloadable, Metal heads with snap-in bullets. In fact I have a box of them in the collection. Reloaded a couple of times before they split. I know, the military isn't looking to reload anyway.
ages ago a friend of mine bought a couple boxes of 12ga that were molded plastic or polymer. the primer was set directly into the plastic case--the only metal on the thing, and if memory serves there was a paper type patch to seal the front--much like those used in the old paper shells. the things shot great but were on the market only that one year that I can remember. guess there wasn't a big too doo made of them so they didn't make any more. not real sure but I believe there wasn't much choice in shot sizes either. personally I would be afraid of reloads in these things since they are put together with glue instead of crimp. if fire will cut the rifle (note the 264 win) it will have to do the same with the polymer thereby rendering it useless for reloading. personally I carry about 20 rds while hunting unless duck or dove hunting so no weight saving there. also, these will be in comparable price to standard match grade ammo??? that stuff is usually pretty expensive!!
A. Reloading is very important for those who do. Many of us don't. For us, being able to put it in the recycle bin works just fine - if everyone would. B. Weight is surely a pretty low priority for civilians, except for those lucky enough to go on the noted exotic hunt. But the military? Mmm, maybe so. When you fly it by the cubic yard around the world weight = money. C. I think for the vast majority of ammo buyers, the two questions will be will it work, meaning feed, fire and eject. (Will a lighter casing eject better?) and price. If you don't reload, lower price means more practice. Which is always a good thing.
Stores & distributors will notice weight savings whether individual shooters do or not.
Excuse me for being a conspiracy theorist but if they do away with brass casings wouldn't that allow the government to control an individual's access to ammo if these plastic casings aren't reloadable? Just trying to think ahead.
Not the first time this has been tried. 20 years ago or so. Even had reloadable plastic cases and strange bullets that went with it. Gun store here in town still unloading the bullets with funny narrow base that fit into plastic case. Maybe round #2 will be better accepted...
Seems like polymer would need thicker walls this reducing case capacity and giving lower velocity. Which would also reduce its usefulness for the military. So, bad for reloaders and bad for military. Hmmm.
Plastic casings would be ideal for military use but for the majority of hunters/reloaders/shooters they appear to not be feasible. Seems to be another item made of oil (the material of all polymers) that needs to remain metal, as many products need to revert so as not add to material from oil producing countries.
Savageshot: not all polymers are from oil. There are some very hard and strong one made from corn, cellulose etc. Besides, oil used to make bras shells as well.
sierrachuck: polymer wall is not necessarily thicker than the bras one. The case is not supposed to withstand firing unsupported anyway.
It makes sense for them to release higher priced product first, it will be interesting to see if they follow up with non-match grade cartridges (and lower priced). Then people will start using them. For consumer product price is very important factor it seems.
I'm not a fan of a non biodegradable casing, I already see enough discarded casings in the field, but at least the metal ones will totally biodegrade.
I think the military is driving this one. They're also into telescoping case ammunition in the proposed LSAT (lightweight small arms technology) machinegun. Only the military with its bulk requirements can really take advantage of any cost, weight or space savings this technology can offer.
let's bring back David Dardick's "tround"
Metal can be recycled just as well as plastic so that isn't an issue.
Steel cases are the most degradable I know of, and are cheaper than brass.
If it is reloadable at all I doubt it will stand up to as many reloadings as brass but I could be wrong.
Other than weight I see no real advantage over brass, and that would be minimal as most of the weight in a round of ammo is the lead in the bullet.
And as to hunting ammo I usually carry 40-50 rounds each for my rifle and handgun, or shotgun and handgun, depending on season.
Cheap steel cases are a "trash" problem already. Plastic unless they are reloadable would only add to the problem. There may be a place for them but, brass should not be replaced.
I don't know how much ammo y'all carry when you go hunting, but 20 rounds of center fire is a gracious plenty. If I am duck or dove hunting, I generally will take a couple boxes of shells, but I don't need a wheel barrow to transport them to the blind or side of the field. And they have been paper or plastic since 'forever.'
I can't see a couple ounces per box making a He** of a lot of difference. Now, if it is a couple dollars cheaper, that might be good. I don't hunt enough, or shoot varmints enough anymore to reload my .270 like I used to. Old age adds limitations, unfortunately. TB
This maybe more interesting than originally thought. If Uncle Sam switches to polymer ammo I would think that means that the price of buying brass ammo should go down a great deal since the military buys HUGE amounts of ammunition. The folks selling the brass for munitions will need to continue selling or go out of business so they will be selling at lower costs to civilian ammunition manufacturers. That I would think would keep the price of polymer case ammo higher than brass case ammo by simple supply and demand. I think that the military switching to polymer could help with the availability and prices on the civilian market. I don't know. Maybe I am wrong.
my big question is, TIME, how long is the shelf life on these gunna be? I live in the pheonix metro area so its pretty hot here sometimes, in 6-9 years of these sitting on my shelf are they gunna fall APART is the glue going to become tacky and alow that bullet to move, I dont see a problem of shooting them within the year that they were bought but like i said what about the long term?
If these are made from a petroleum by product then you can bet your bottom dollar the cost will be outrageous.That is exactly what our government is trying to do today is put a stop to the average person from being able to buy ammo. I don't want any part of it.It's best to go ahead and stock up on the good ammo that is in brass casings.Brass will last a life time. we will be needing it with the way things are going now.
Even if they are reloadable, would that require new die sets? Higher cost for one time use will limit civilian sales to those who just want to see what they are like. Some may buy a box just to collect to say they have them once they are discontinued.
Also, regarding reloading, would new cases be available for reloaders?
the biggest handloading issue for me is, how do you wildcat a polymer case?
the bad part about this is that the military expends large amounts of brass that is then put onto the market for reloaders. if they do away with brass for this stuff that is really going to crimp the style of reloaders because the stuff just won't be available. I would imagine shelf life of this stuff would be comparable to brass ammo. I have some that was produced in 66 and has been kept cool and dry in the house and shoots like the day it was made.
As military arms go, so goes the civilian industry (eventually). I think we're going to be seeing more of these rounds on store shelves as time goes on.
i want to see it field tested
i want to see it field tested
I reload, so I have no use for it.
Remember;
Shotgun shells used to be brass also.
Now they are plastic (?) and easly reloaded.
Lets wait and see what we get and then we can buy it, or leave it.
Post a Comment
Can they be reloaded?
The weight of my ammo is not a factor when hunting. I don't carry that much. Who does?
well if i can't reload them how eco-friendley can they be?. i can reload one case meny times. i never leve my brass when shoting.. this stuff if not reloadable will be left all over the place just like shot gun shells are now. messy and giveing shooters a bad name! not good for the envirment or the sport..
my big question is, TIME, how long is the shelf life on these gunna be? I live in the pheonix metro area so its pretty hot here sometimes, in 6-9 years of these sitting on my shelf are they gunna fall APART is the glue going to become tacky and alow that bullet to move, I dont see a problem of shooting them within the year that they were bought but like i said what about the long term?
If its not cheaper than brass case ammo, I don't think the civilian market will really buy a bunch of this stuff. It's still pretty cool though.
If they expand into the pistol market and make .45ACP cheaper than Winchester White Box, then maybe I will buy some.
I think I'll wait till casings become edible after firing. Now that would be something to chew on!
Excuse me for being a conspiracy theorist but if they do away with brass casings wouldn't that allow the government to control an individual's access to ammo if these plastic casings aren't reloadable? Just trying to think ahead.
I don't know how much ammo y'all carry when you go hunting, but 20 rounds of center fire is a gracious plenty. If I am duck or dove hunting, I generally will take a couple boxes of shells, but I don't need a wheel barrow to transport them to the blind or side of the field. And they have been paper or plastic since 'forever.'
I can't see a couple ounces per box making a He** of a lot of difference. Now, if it is a couple dollars cheaper, that might be good. I don't hunt enough, or shoot varmints enough anymore to reload my .270 like I used to. Old age adds limitations, unfortunately. TB
This maybe more interesting than originally thought. If Uncle Sam switches to polymer ammo I would think that means that the price of buying brass ammo should go down a great deal since the military buys HUGE amounts of ammunition. The folks selling the brass for munitions will need to continue selling or go out of business so they will be selling at lower costs to civilian ammunition manufacturers. That I would think would keep the price of polymer case ammo higher than brass case ammo by simple supply and demand. I think that the military switching to polymer could help with the availability and prices on the civilian market. I don't know. Maybe I am wrong.
good point pbshooter, they would also reduce metal it takes to make casings.
That last comment was phrased really dumb. I meant by using less metal they would be more eco-friendy, especially if they could be reused or recycled.
Probably ought not be too shy about jumping on the band wagon. I remember when everyone was poo poo-ing the "plastic guns". What manufacturer isn't producing them now?
@Savageshot: "Polymer" is a general chemical term for materials made up of repeating, linked, molecules, so not exclusively refering to petroleum based products.
I would suppose that all synthetic polymers made today are petroleum based but in the grand scheme of the world of plastics that we live in -- I expect that other than the reloading issue these cases are far cheaper than brass.
I should say, "these cases are far cheaper to produce than brass"... Their actual cash value will be determined by the market.
When you travel over seas to hunt, you are only allowed 11 kilograms per rifle. That equates to about 2 boxes of 458 win mag ammo. On a 21 day Safari, that is not much ammo.
sounds interesting but i need to know more. can it be
reloaded, how does it handle the pressure of reloads. what about the littering aspect - i understand polymer will be around for a long time before it degrades.
i guess if the only advantage is weight, for the average
shooter it may not be much of a factor. more research and
field trials are necessary to see where it might fit in
Way too expensive for me. I'm a P.D. shooter and I reload only. Other than rimfire I havn't bought a factory round in decades. If it's not reloadable it will die on the vine. I can see this stuff all over the range
Nothing really new. USRAC (or something like that) had plastic .38's that were reloadable, Metal heads with snap-in bullets. In fact I have a box of them in the collection. Reloaded a couple of times before they split. I know, the military isn't looking to reload anyway.
ages ago a friend of mine bought a couple boxes of 12ga that were molded plastic or polymer. the primer was set directly into the plastic case--the only metal on the thing, and if memory serves there was a paper type patch to seal the front--much like those used in the old paper shells. the things shot great but were on the market only that one year that I can remember. guess there wasn't a big too doo made of them so they didn't make any more. not real sure but I believe there wasn't much choice in shot sizes either. personally I would be afraid of reloads in these things since they are put together with glue instead of crimp. if fire will cut the rifle (note the 264 win) it will have to do the same with the polymer thereby rendering it useless for reloading. personally I carry about 20 rds while hunting unless duck or dove hunting so no weight saving there. also, these will be in comparable price to standard match grade ammo??? that stuff is usually pretty expensive!!
Stores & distributors will notice weight savings whether individual shooters do or not.
Not the first time this has been tried. 20 years ago or so. Even had reloadable plastic cases and strange bullets that went with it. Gun store here in town still unloading the bullets with funny narrow base that fit into plastic case. Maybe round #2 will be better accepted...
Seems like polymer would need thicker walls this reducing case capacity and giving lower velocity. Which would also reduce its usefulness for the military. So, bad for reloaders and bad for military. Hmmm.
Plastic casings would be ideal for military use but for the majority of hunters/reloaders/shooters they appear to not be feasible. Seems to be another item made of oil (the material of all polymers) that needs to remain metal, as many products need to revert so as not add to material from oil producing countries.
Savageshot: not all polymers are from oil. There are some very hard and strong one made from corn, cellulose etc. Besides, oil used to make bras shells as well.
sierrachuck: polymer wall is not necessarily thicker than the bras one. The case is not supposed to withstand firing unsupported anyway.
It makes sense for them to release higher priced product first, it will be interesting to see if they follow up with non-match grade cartridges (and lower priced). Then people will start using them. For consumer product price is very important factor it seems.
I'm not a fan of a non biodegradable casing, I already see enough discarded casings in the field, but at least the metal ones will totally biodegrade.
I think the military is driving this one. They're also into telescoping case ammunition in the proposed LSAT (lightweight small arms technology) machinegun. Only the military with its bulk requirements can really take advantage of any cost, weight or space savings this technology can offer.
Metal can be recycled just as well as plastic so that isn't an issue.
Steel cases are the most degradable I know of, and are cheaper than brass.
If it is reloadable at all I doubt it will stand up to as many reloadings as brass but I could be wrong.
Other than weight I see no real advantage over brass, and that would be minimal as most of the weight in a round of ammo is the lead in the bullet.
And as to hunting ammo I usually carry 40-50 rounds each for my rifle and handgun, or shotgun and handgun, depending on season.
Cheap steel cases are a "trash" problem already. Plastic unless they are reloadable would only add to the problem. There may be a place for them but, brass should not be replaced.
If these are made from a petroleum by product then you can bet your bottom dollar the cost will be outrageous.That is exactly what our government is trying to do today is put a stop to the average person from being able to buy ammo. I don't want any part of it.It's best to go ahead and stock up on the good ammo that is in brass casings.Brass will last a life time. we will be needing it with the way things are going now.
the biggest handloading issue for me is, how do you wildcat a polymer case?
Remember;
Shotgun shells used to be brass also.
Now they are plastic (?) and easly reloaded.
Lets wait and see what we get and then we can buy it, or leave it.
I bet the ID wall thickness is more than brass thus limiting powder charges.
Let me know if im wrong but isn't polymer and petromlium product? if i am right, with the amount that most people shoot myself included, the gas of gas and ammo would go up i dont want eithier one.
Good Idea I guess. But I don't hunt with anymore than 5 rounds with me usualy. I'm guessing that if I were on a backpack hunt in a really wild place I'd like more but the I've never done that and likely wont do that so I'm worried about ammo wieght. Still a good idea just not one I need to worry about
I can see those not being able to reload. Although there light weight they're probably easy to break to. I wonder how they stand up to the heat of firing.
A. Reloading is very important for those who do. Many of us don't. For us, being able to put it in the recycle bin works just fine - if everyone would. B. Weight is surely a pretty low priority for civilians, except for those lucky enough to go on the noted exotic hunt. But the military? Mmm, maybe so. When you fly it by the cubic yard around the world weight = money. C. I think for the vast majority of ammo buyers, the two questions will be will it work, meaning feed, fire and eject. (Will a lighter casing eject better?) and price. If you don't reload, lower price means more practice. Which is always a good thing.
let's bring back David Dardick's "tround"
Even if they are reloadable, would that require new die sets? Higher cost for one time use will limit civilian sales to those who just want to see what they are like. Some may buy a box just to collect to say they have them once they are discontinued.
Also, regarding reloading, would new cases be available for reloaders?
the bad part about this is that the military expends large amounts of brass that is then put onto the market for reloaders. if they do away with brass for this stuff that is really going to crimp the style of reloaders because the stuff just won't be available. I would imagine shelf life of this stuff would be comparable to brass ammo. I have some that was produced in 66 and has been kept cool and dry in the house and shoots like the day it was made.
As military arms go, so goes the civilian industry (eventually). I think we're going to be seeing more of these rounds on store shelves as time goes on.
i want to see it field tested
I reload, so I have no use for it.
i want to see it field tested
Post a Comment