



June 25, 2012
Is There Such a Thing as a Rifle That's Too Clean?
By David E. Petzal
I started shooting seriously (as opposed to spraying lead around the landscape) in 1958 at summer camp. We shot in an NRA-sanctioned program, and we did it with set of 10 or so .22 target rifles—good ones, as I recall. These guns were in use every day for two months, and were not cleaned until they were put away at the end of the season. As far as I can recall, they were just as accurate at the end of the summer as they were at the beginning.
This is why I asked John Blauvelt if my compulsive scrubbing of my own .22’s barrel was unnecessary. His opinion was yes. According to John, the best treatment of a rimfire bore is benign neglect. After you put lots and lots of ammo through it and find yourself overwhelmed with guilt because it’s full of grease and wax and burned powder, you can run a wet patch through it and then a dry one. But nothing more than that. Most .22s, said John, don’t really start to shoot accurately until you get them dirty, and as far as rust goes, when the bore is coated with lube from the bullets, the steel is sealed off from the air, so no rust.
The one step that is necessary is the removal of the ring of burned powder, lead, lube, and who knows what else that accumulates just ahead of the chamber. This can keep you from running a round all the way in and can raise hell with accuracy. The way you get it out is to scrub the chamber and an inch or so of barrel ahead of it with a wet 6mm brush (not a .22 brush; you need something bigger in diameter than the chamber).
He speaks the truth. I’ve had the Ring of Crud develop in a very good .22 rifle and a .22 revolver cylinder.
You should also remove the crud from the action and in particular the bolt face, but let the bore mostly alone. You will be happier, and so will your rifle.
Comments (42)
I am quite certain that drill sergeant Creasy will appear behind me and commence with the disassembly of my useless cranium should I choose to not ensure my firearm is clean, dry and serviceable. So, I will continue to methodically clean every weapon every time and police my brass. Maybe the process which taught me to religiously clean my firearm is also why I shoot methodically and accurately. I also do not tug on superman’s cape or spit into the wind.
For the most part I agree with you, but i do give all my guns a very good cleaning twice a year and wipe them down every so often with an oily rag. There is a right way and a wrong way to clean firearms. I have seen some guns where the stock, where it joins the action, so punky from too much oil or solvent that they were in really bad shape. Copper and lead fouling can become a horrendous problem if not scrubbed out. Copper jackets and copper plating leaves minute pieces of copper in the rifling. Lead build up(especially rifled slug guns) can cause all kinds of problems and is hard to remove. So I say keep those gun as clean as you feel necessary. TO CLEAN OR NOT TO CLEAN, NOW THAT IS THE QUESTION.
I'll clean my hunting rifles once a year - after the season. I'll start shooting them again in the summer as I prepare for deer season, but I prefer having the fouled barrel going into the hunting season.
I'll clean rifles more regularly when I'm working on load development - but that is a function of the higher number of shots taken and my desire to cut down on variables such as clean barrel versus heavily fouled barrel.
A little Hoppe's and a brush for a couple of passes and a patch or two is all the .22 rimfires ever get. Big dogs get a wet patch and dry patch everytime used. A good bore scrubbing every 20 rounds or so. If I am shooting tight groups right before the hunt, a wet patch with Hoppe's No. 9 and a couple of dry patches, a fouling shot followed by another dry patch and a piece of black electrical tape is all it gets. Don't know if this ritual works, but haven't missed an animal in years....
Clean rifles do not put bullets in the same hole as dirty ones. That much I do know. My first shot with any recently cleaned rifle is never where the gun has been sighted in. In fact I go so far as to shoot a muzzleloader with just Pyrodex in it before I hunt. It does not go BOOM because there is no pressure but it dirties the bore and makes it shoot where I want it to. Muzzleloaders are the only rifles I clean after every shooting foray.
To WAmtnhunter;
What the "HELL', ELECTRICAL TAPE !
Dale, apparently it snows and rains in WA., unlike here in the Great Midwestern Desert. Keeps the wet out of the bore, and blows off or open before the bullet gets there.
I've heard tell of the use of Pro-pal-lactics instead of tape in Southeast Asia and the like, but WAM blushes at the thought...
tape goes over the muzzle to keep crud out when your in the field, but you knew that
I think the good old .22 is the exception to the rule to a diligent cleaning schedule...with the exception of the semi-auto to witch my Savage needs a good cleaning at least once a month(depending on the amount of shooting)and even twice so the action doesn't get sloppy and functions properly.I mean a GOOD BREAK DOWN CLEANING by the way.
Personally, I keep my guns clean.Period.Oh, if I sight in the day before a hunt, no barrel cleaning just an exterior wipe down. This system works for me, and like WA, I usually hit what I'm aimin` at..
As a marine Vet I'll say only this. There is no such thing as too clean a rifle! I don't care about anyone's
wives tales, a clean gun runs better, shoots staighter,
and in purtier than a dirty one. All my firarms are still Marine Corps inspection ready, and they all shoot
extremely well, just ask the dead Alaskan critters.
Amflyer,
Aw, shucks.....
yOU ARE NICEST PEOPLE i KNOW.
aND YES < i KNEW OF THE OVER THE BORE TRICK BUT DOWN HERE IN LOUISIAA WE USULY WAIT TILL WE GO.
mUST BE THE OLD "BOY SCOUT" INEM.
same with air rifles, esp with the shallow rifling they have, and the lack of heat/powder in the equation
And here I was feeling guilty about not taking care of business. Thanks, Dave. I'm probably better off anyway keeping the safe door closed considering how humid it is these days in soggy ole FLA.
I've experienced both... with .22's and larger calibers. Some guns shoot great dirty, others shoot like hell. I tailor the regimen to the gun. Hey, some you win, some you loose. Do it before season to find out which ones you have to worry about that's my recommendation for anybody who cares.
Reminds me of the time a friend just had to thoroughly clean the bore of his .22. He used a stainless brush and never could get his patches to come clean. Turns out he was just scrubbing out the rifling in that soft barrel steel.
I've had some abused .22 rifles come thru my shop but it is rare to see one with a bad bore. Daves' friend is correct when it comes to cleaning .22 barrels. Don't get carried away with it.
Since we are on the subject, anyone use Barnes TSX bullets as a matter of course? I have been working up loads in a rifle and this is my first experience with them. My best load has the bullet 0.05" off the lands, and (to stay on subject)prints the best groups immediately following an intensive cleaning and de-coppering. Do you find your best results come from a pristine bore? How many rounds of TSX can you fire before your accuracy drops? Any other tips?
Amflyer,
I use Barnes TSX in the .30-06 and TTSX exclusively in 7mm and .300 Weatherby's. I have found that the groups start to widen after 10-15 rounds in the 7mm Wby, possibly due to fouling. I have not noticed such a trend on the .300 Wby so far, but I get the copper out every 20-25 shots or so. Neither one of those rifles is a high-volume plinker. Overall, the 7mm barrel is perhaps a bit more finicky about being clean. It is a hammer forged barrel and the other 2 are button rifled, if that might make a difference. All get a couple of fouling shots after a cleaning before the hunt. Most of my practice shooting is done with a .308 Win and .257 Roberts for reasons of economy although I ain't skeered of the other's recoil!
Amflyer,
I successfully use Barnes TSX in a wide variety of calibers, big and small using pretty much the same techniques as WAM. Just before leaving on a hunting trip they are cleaned, then a fouling shot I feel is very important.
I clean all of my centerfire rifles after every session at the range right up until hunting season. I never clean the bore after the last shooting session immediately before the season until all seasons have closed. If I have a chance to hunt exotics or varmints or anything post regular hunting season I will always fire the rifle on paper first and leave it uncleaned.
Shotgun bores get cleaned after every shooting session, be it clay or feathers, but I have never cleaned the bore on a .22 rifle, for all the reasons Petzal's friend gave him. I've got one bolt action .22 that originally belonged to my dad that is now about 55 or 60 years old and it has never had a patch run through it. Accuracy is still excellent. Why fix something if it's not broke?
After a range session I always clean my rifles whether they have been fired once or several times. I even keep a cleaning record, if I have not used a piece for a long time, just glance at the log. I have a lot of firearms, the log helps my feeble old mind. On a long trip the weather and use pretty much sets the cleaning schedule. Have spent a month in Africa without cleaning the rifle, just a wipe down in the evening. In the vehicle I try to keep them in a silicon impregnated soft case. Hunting the jungle is a different issue requiring more cleaning care. WAM's electrician tape also helps prevent insects from laying eggs in your barrel.
Thanks for the info on the TSX gents.
You all know I'm not one for tall tales. I once had a 30-06 that I never cleaned. The copper fouling became so bad that accuracy went all to heck. There was so much copper that I eventually just switched to firing 270 Winchester cartridges in it. Last group was just a bit outside of an inch at 1600 meters, but then that was with open sights.
(My, but I'm ready for the Fall!)
My apologies, but wanted to reemphasize an item of African rifle care, the daily wipe down. Your staff and hunting vehicle are daily exposed to bulk salt being used or moved back and forth for all kinds of reasons like protecting your trophies. Attempting to be helpful the staff may pass your rifle through several hand in the blink of an eye. Additionally, in some parts of Africa a staple part of their diet is something similar to manioc, . This is highly acidic and in their system, mixed with sweat and salt can quickly raise hob with rifle bluing. Decades ago, a well meaning pygmy spotted a bit of "hanger rash" on my rifle barrel he rubbed in spit and tobacco ash to darken the area on the barrel. I went to bed without wiping and checking, by morning the spot was pitted. Kindest Regards
WAM, did you use the ultraborecoat I gave on those barrels? When properly applied that stuff works. I have coated all my bores.
Happy Myles Ultragun shield is a clear liquid you can apply to the metal surfaces that are blued. It is invisible and protects against rust just as claimed. I understand John Barsness has tested, uses and recommends both.
Del,
Good to here from you. Thank you for the tip, I'll give it a good try. The instructions include a warning that it makes the metal very slippery, which in addition to preventing rust gives me an excuse when I screw up. All the best.
I'm with AKgunguy! I have to have mine Marine Corps inspection ready at all times. Once they train you, its a habit for life. My stuff shoots well too so it must work.
Oh and BTW if your rifle likes it "dirty" LOL, one may always fire a fouling shot or two before going for the groups.
Del, I used it on my .308 Win and have not fired it enough since the initial shooting per the instructions to evaluate it's effectiveness. I have a croaker sack of Lake City 04 brass to process for some handloads. I'm going to use it on my 7mm Weatherby as soon as I get time for a full disassembly and copper scrubbing.
Just like all the other vet's out there have said...NO, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WEAPON THAT IS TOO CLEAN!
I was once given FREE an old Marlin Pump 22/S,L that could not hit the Side of a Barn, after one week of Scrubbing out the Bbl with a brass brush and Hoppe's#9, it was a tack driver.There no such thing as a GUN too Clean!
Except for .22s, where it does seem that they shoot at least as well without regular cleaning, I don't believe that a rifle can be too clean, although some--but not all--need a fouling shot or two before they put their shots in the same place. As far as the Barnes TSX goes, I've got three rifles--a Weatherby Accumark in .257, another Accumark in .340 and a Remington 700 in .300--that print substantially better groups with the TSX, and thus shoot them exclusively. They all respond differently with respect to fouling. The .340 can shoot 20--sometimes 30--225 gr. TSXs over the course of a day, and yet show little or no sign of copper fouling, with the patch showing little other than the grey-black that comes from burnt powder. The .257, after the same number of rounds with the 115 gr. TSX, will show a fair, but not excessive, amount of blue on the patch. The Remington, on the other hand, shows heavy copper fouling after only a few 180 gr. TSX pass through the bore. I tend to clean the rifles with Wipeout after most sessions, but then forego the Wipeout and instead do a very thorough cleaning with Barnes CR-10 every third or fourth time; the results are essentially the same with either solvent (and the times when I wanted to test the adequacy of the Wipeout by doing further cleaning with CR-10, the CR-10 did not remove much, if any, additional filing, despite vigorous application of a brush and multiple passes with a patch)
amen to whiteagles comments about wipeout. usually several applications in a factory barrel and just one in a custom barrel. the stuff is easy to use and works good. i've got a 25-06 that always throws the first shot out of a clean bore about two inches high. a 7mm-08 that shoots right on clean or dirty and a 7mm wsm that needs several foulers before it starts to hammer and shoots under a minute all the way out there. rifles seem to be individuals and not all act the same. i don't hunt with the .22s but they are great for plinking and watching the effects of trigger control. my .22 rifles and pistols seem to shoot about the same clean or fouled.
Dave, I agree... (remember fellows we are talking "rimfire" here) My old Glenfield Model 60 still shoots as good now as when my dad bought it used for me when I was too young to drive and I am 45 now. It is the only rifle I own that I will allow to stay a little dirty. Everything else I own is spotless.. however my Model 60 seems to like a little dirt here and there. After all these years, and untold number of rounds of .22rounds down the barrel. Its still ready to stop an invading army of tin cans or kill a squirrel for the pot.
vehicle makes a good and necessary point that seems to have gotten lost in the conversation. The subject was how often or whether or not to clean the bores of .22 RIMFIRE rifles; not anything else. It's obvious that even the suggestion of leaving any bore unswabbed is, to some people, akin to insulting their mother. But .22s are a different animal, due to both the tiny amount of powder involved and the lubricated nature of their bullets. There is far more chance of damaging the bore with a cleaning rod than there is of suffering corrosion or a loss of accuracy from any residue left behind by shooting. Note also that we are talking about cleaning the bore; not the actions, trigger, exterior metals or any other part of the gun that might require some cleaning for proper function or rust prevention.
As a competition .22lr shooter, I can tell you that they are definitely a different breed than centerfire rifles. A lot depends on if you are using the "cheap" Remington/Federal/Etc .22 ammo that are copper/metal, or if you are using good lubricated lead bullets.
It you are using the cheap ammo, you will probably have to clean them on occasion to prevent copper fouling. If you are shooting lubricated lead ammo, you rarely clean the bore. The action (especially on a 10/22 style) will need to be kept clean. But rimfires are very "sensitive" to the lubricant on lead bullets. If you change ammo to one with a different lube, especially if going from wax (like Eley) to a more oily lubricant (Lapua/SK/Wolf), you will need to fire 15-20 shots to re-season the barrel.
Some of the top competition shooters will clean their rifle a week or two before a match, but don't consider it ready for the match until they put at least 100 rounds thru it.
I just got done cleaning my dad's old 22LR bolt action, it used to be a tack driver but has been getting worse over the years, it had had a solvent and then oil patch but little else over the years. And yes, the first 3-4 inches past the chamber were horrible, after almost a month of scrubbing with various solvents, penetrating oils (and PB Blaster), Sweet's 7.62 solvent and JB bore cleaner it finally looks pretty good.
I even used 0000 steel wool wrapped on a 22 brush to scrape at the lead buildup!
Haven't got to shoot it yet as I also found my old Tasco scope had died (I think it was the one that came with a pump air rifle that was bought back in the 70's so I really can't complain!
Hope it is again a tackdriver, I used to use it for sniping groundhogs at 100-150 yds, I miss that accuracy.
My 17 HMR shoots better dirty than clean. The only thing I like dirty other than my 17 are martinis
To WaMtnhunter;
You keep dropping those little hints(croaker sacks),etc.
and I still don't know where you're from.
Whoa never would have guessed that..hopefully this makes my 10/22 more accurate lol
@WI Hunter, you need all the help you can get with a 10/22!!
For .22s you are right on DEP. I shot .22s competitively for a while and cleaning was a risky venture. I would surely never attempt a match with a clean barrel. The centerfires though need to be cleaned periodically to remove strange contaminants. To shoot best, a few fouling shots are necessary to return the barrel to its best accuracy. Most of my rifles shoot best after three to five fouling shots. I have one that took up to 15 fouling shots before the bullets started going through the same hole at 100 yards. Most competitive benchrest shooters won't step to the line with a completely clean barrel. For hunting, you are better off waiting until the end of season to clean your barrel unless you have encountered unusual circumstances.
When I was in the Army we would take a sandwich bag and a rubber band. Put it over the muzzle and keep it on with a rubber band. Majority of misfires are due to a dirty wepon.
Post a Comment
I am quite certain that drill sergeant Creasy will appear behind me and commence with the disassembly of my useless cranium should I choose to not ensure my firearm is clean, dry and serviceable. So, I will continue to methodically clean every weapon every time and police my brass. Maybe the process which taught me to religiously clean my firearm is also why I shoot methodically and accurately. I also do not tug on superman’s cape or spit into the wind.
I think the good old .22 is the exception to the rule to a diligent cleaning schedule...with the exception of the semi-auto to witch my Savage needs a good cleaning at least once a month(depending on the amount of shooting)and even twice so the action doesn't get sloppy and functions properly.I mean a GOOD BREAK DOWN CLEANING by the way.
Personally, I keep my guns clean.Period.Oh, if I sight in the day before a hunt, no barrel cleaning just an exterior wipe down. This system works for me, and like WA, I usually hit what I'm aimin` at..
As a marine Vet I'll say only this. There is no such thing as too clean a rifle! I don't care about anyone's
wives tales, a clean gun runs better, shoots staighter,
and in purtier than a dirty one. All my firarms are still Marine Corps inspection ready, and they all shoot
extremely well, just ask the dead Alaskan critters.
Amflyer,
I successfully use Barnes TSX in a wide variety of calibers, big and small using pretty much the same techniques as WAM. Just before leaving on a hunting trip they are cleaned, then a fouling shot I feel is very important.
vehicle makes a good and necessary point that seems to have gotten lost in the conversation. The subject was how often or whether or not to clean the bores of .22 RIMFIRE rifles; not anything else. It's obvious that even the suggestion of leaving any bore unswabbed is, to some people, akin to insulting their mother. But .22s are a different animal, due to both the tiny amount of powder involved and the lubricated nature of their bullets. There is far more chance of damaging the bore with a cleaning rod than there is of suffering corrosion or a loss of accuracy from any residue left behind by shooting. Note also that we are talking about cleaning the bore; not the actions, trigger, exterior metals or any other part of the gun that might require some cleaning for proper function or rust prevention.
For the most part I agree with you, but i do give all my guns a very good cleaning twice a year and wipe them down every so often with an oily rag. There is a right way and a wrong way to clean firearms. I have seen some guns where the stock, where it joins the action, so punky from too much oil or solvent that they were in really bad shape. Copper and lead fouling can become a horrendous problem if not scrubbed out. Copper jackets and copper plating leaves minute pieces of copper in the rifling. Lead build up(especially rifled slug guns) can cause all kinds of problems and is hard to remove. So I say keep those gun as clean as you feel necessary. TO CLEAN OR NOT TO CLEAN, NOW THAT IS THE QUESTION.
A little Hoppe's and a brush for a couple of passes and a patch or two is all the .22 rimfires ever get. Big dogs get a wet patch and dry patch everytime used. A good bore scrubbing every 20 rounds or so. If I am shooting tight groups right before the hunt, a wet patch with Hoppe's No. 9 and a couple of dry patches, a fouling shot followed by another dry patch and a piece of black electrical tape is all it gets. Don't know if this ritual works, but haven't missed an animal in years....
Clean rifles do not put bullets in the same hole as dirty ones. That much I do know. My first shot with any recently cleaned rifle is never where the gun has been sighted in. In fact I go so far as to shoot a muzzleloader with just Pyrodex in it before I hunt. It does not go BOOM because there is no pressure but it dirties the bore and makes it shoot where I want it to. Muzzleloaders are the only rifles I clean after every shooting foray.
I've experienced both... with .22's and larger calibers. Some guns shoot great dirty, others shoot like hell. I tailor the regimen to the gun. Hey, some you win, some you loose. Do it before season to find out which ones you have to worry about that's my recommendation for anybody who cares.
Reminds me of the time a friend just had to thoroughly clean the bore of his .22. He used a stainless brush and never could get his patches to come clean. Turns out he was just scrubbing out the rifling in that soft barrel steel.
I've had some abused .22 rifles come thru my shop but it is rare to see one with a bad bore. Daves' friend is correct when it comes to cleaning .22 barrels. Don't get carried away with it.
After a range session I always clean my rifles whether they have been fired once or several times. I even keep a cleaning record, if I have not used a piece for a long time, just glance at the log. I have a lot of firearms, the log helps my feeble old mind. On a long trip the weather and use pretty much sets the cleaning schedule. Have spent a month in Africa without cleaning the rifle, just a wipe down in the evening. In the vehicle I try to keep them in a silicon impregnated soft case. Hunting the jungle is a different issue requiring more cleaning care. WAM's electrician tape also helps prevent insects from laying eggs in your barrel.
Thanks for the info on the TSX gents.
You all know I'm not one for tall tales. I once had a 30-06 that I never cleaned. The copper fouling became so bad that accuracy went all to heck. There was so much copper that I eventually just switched to firing 270 Winchester cartridges in it. Last group was just a bit outside of an inch at 1600 meters, but then that was with open sights.
(My, but I'm ready for the Fall!)
My apologies, but wanted to reemphasize an item of African rifle care, the daily wipe down. Your staff and hunting vehicle are daily exposed to bulk salt being used or moved back and forth for all kinds of reasons like protecting your trophies. Attempting to be helpful the staff may pass your rifle through several hand in the blink of an eye. Additionally, in some parts of Africa a staple part of their diet is something similar to manioc, . This is highly acidic and in their system, mixed with sweat and salt can quickly raise hob with rifle bluing. Decades ago, a well meaning pygmy spotted a bit of "hanger rash" on my rifle barrel he rubbed in spit and tobacco ash to darken the area on the barrel. I went to bed without wiping and checking, by morning the spot was pitted. Kindest Regards
WAM, did you use the ultraborecoat I gave on those barrels? When properly applied that stuff works. I have coated all my bores.
Happy Myles Ultragun shield is a clear liquid you can apply to the metal surfaces that are blued. It is invisible and protects against rust just as claimed. I understand John Barsness has tested, uses and recommends both.
Dave, I agree... (remember fellows we are talking "rimfire" here) My old Glenfield Model 60 still shoots as good now as when my dad bought it used for me when I was too young to drive and I am 45 now. It is the only rifle I own that I will allow to stay a little dirty. Everything else I own is spotless.. however my Model 60 seems to like a little dirt here and there. After all these years, and untold number of rounds of .22rounds down the barrel. Its still ready to stop an invading army of tin cans or kill a squirrel for the pot.
As a competition .22lr shooter, I can tell you that they are definitely a different breed than centerfire rifles. A lot depends on if you are using the "cheap" Remington/Federal/Etc .22 ammo that are copper/metal, or if you are using good lubricated lead bullets.
It you are using the cheap ammo, you will probably have to clean them on occasion to prevent copper fouling. If you are shooting lubricated lead ammo, you rarely clean the bore. The action (especially on a 10/22 style) will need to be kept clean. But rimfires are very "sensitive" to the lubricant on lead bullets. If you change ammo to one with a different lube, especially if going from wax (like Eley) to a more oily lubricant (Lapua/SK/Wolf), you will need to fire 15-20 shots to re-season the barrel.
Some of the top competition shooters will clean their rifle a week or two before a match, but don't consider it ready for the match until they put at least 100 rounds thru it.
I'll clean my hunting rifles once a year - after the season. I'll start shooting them again in the summer as I prepare for deer season, but I prefer having the fouled barrel going into the hunting season.
I'll clean rifles more regularly when I'm working on load development - but that is a function of the higher number of shots taken and my desire to cut down on variables such as clean barrel versus heavily fouled barrel.
To WAmtnhunter;
What the "HELL', ELECTRICAL TAPE !
Dale, apparently it snows and rains in WA., unlike here in the Great Midwestern Desert. Keeps the wet out of the bore, and blows off or open before the bullet gets there.
I've heard tell of the use of Pro-pal-lactics instead of tape in Southeast Asia and the like, but WAM blushes at the thought...
tape goes over the muzzle to keep crud out when your in the field, but you knew that
Amflyer,
Aw, shucks.....
yOU ARE NICEST PEOPLE i KNOW.
aND YES < i KNEW OF THE OVER THE BORE TRICK BUT DOWN HERE IN LOUISIAA WE USULY WAIT TILL WE GO.
mUST BE THE OLD "BOY SCOUT" INEM.
same with air rifles, esp with the shallow rifling they have, and the lack of heat/powder in the equation
And here I was feeling guilty about not taking care of business. Thanks, Dave. I'm probably better off anyway keeping the safe door closed considering how humid it is these days in soggy ole FLA.
Since we are on the subject, anyone use Barnes TSX bullets as a matter of course? I have been working up loads in a rifle and this is my first experience with them. My best load has the bullet 0.05" off the lands, and (to stay on subject)prints the best groups immediately following an intensive cleaning and de-coppering. Do you find your best results come from a pristine bore? How many rounds of TSX can you fire before your accuracy drops? Any other tips?
Amflyer,
I use Barnes TSX in the .30-06 and TTSX exclusively in 7mm and .300 Weatherby's. I have found that the groups start to widen after 10-15 rounds in the 7mm Wby, possibly due to fouling. I have not noticed such a trend on the .300 Wby so far, but I get the copper out every 20-25 shots or so. Neither one of those rifles is a high-volume plinker. Overall, the 7mm barrel is perhaps a bit more finicky about being clean. It is a hammer forged barrel and the other 2 are button rifled, if that might make a difference. All get a couple of fouling shots after a cleaning before the hunt. Most of my practice shooting is done with a .308 Win and .257 Roberts for reasons of economy although I ain't skeered of the other's recoil!
I clean all of my centerfire rifles after every session at the range right up until hunting season. I never clean the bore after the last shooting session immediately before the season until all seasons have closed. If I have a chance to hunt exotics or varmints or anything post regular hunting season I will always fire the rifle on paper first and leave it uncleaned.
Shotgun bores get cleaned after every shooting session, be it clay or feathers, but I have never cleaned the bore on a .22 rifle, for all the reasons Petzal's friend gave him. I've got one bolt action .22 that originally belonged to my dad that is now about 55 or 60 years old and it has never had a patch run through it. Accuracy is still excellent. Why fix something if it's not broke?
Del,
Good to here from you. Thank you for the tip, I'll give it a good try. The instructions include a warning that it makes the metal very slippery, which in addition to preventing rust gives me an excuse when I screw up. All the best.
I'm with AKgunguy! I have to have mine Marine Corps inspection ready at all times. Once they train you, its a habit for life. My stuff shoots well too so it must work.
Oh and BTW if your rifle likes it "dirty" LOL, one may always fire a fouling shot or two before going for the groups.
Del, I used it on my .308 Win and have not fired it enough since the initial shooting per the instructions to evaluate it's effectiveness. I have a croaker sack of Lake City 04 brass to process for some handloads. I'm going to use it on my 7mm Weatherby as soon as I get time for a full disassembly and copper scrubbing.
Just like all the other vet's out there have said...NO, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A WEAPON THAT IS TOO CLEAN!
I was once given FREE an old Marlin Pump 22/S,L that could not hit the Side of a Barn, after one week of Scrubbing out the Bbl with a brass brush and Hoppe's#9, it was a tack driver.There no such thing as a GUN too Clean!
Except for .22s, where it does seem that they shoot at least as well without regular cleaning, I don't believe that a rifle can be too clean, although some--but not all--need a fouling shot or two before they put their shots in the same place. As far as the Barnes TSX goes, I've got three rifles--a Weatherby Accumark in .257, another Accumark in .340 and a Remington 700 in .300--that print substantially better groups with the TSX, and thus shoot them exclusively. They all respond differently with respect to fouling. The .340 can shoot 20--sometimes 30--225 gr. TSXs over the course of a day, and yet show little or no sign of copper fouling, with the patch showing little other than the grey-black that comes from burnt powder. The .257, after the same number of rounds with the 115 gr. TSX, will show a fair, but not excessive, amount of blue on the patch. The Remington, on the other hand, shows heavy copper fouling after only a few 180 gr. TSX pass through the bore. I tend to clean the rifles with Wipeout after most sessions, but then forego the Wipeout and instead do a very thorough cleaning with Barnes CR-10 every third or fourth time; the results are essentially the same with either solvent (and the times when I wanted to test the adequacy of the Wipeout by doing further cleaning with CR-10, the CR-10 did not remove much, if any, additional filing, despite vigorous application of a brush and multiple passes with a patch)
amen to whiteagles comments about wipeout. usually several applications in a factory barrel and just one in a custom barrel. the stuff is easy to use and works good. i've got a 25-06 that always throws the first shot out of a clean bore about two inches high. a 7mm-08 that shoots right on clean or dirty and a 7mm wsm that needs several foulers before it starts to hammer and shoots under a minute all the way out there. rifles seem to be individuals and not all act the same. i don't hunt with the .22s but they are great for plinking and watching the effects of trigger control. my .22 rifles and pistols seem to shoot about the same clean or fouled.
I just got done cleaning my dad's old 22LR bolt action, it used to be a tack driver but has been getting worse over the years, it had had a solvent and then oil patch but little else over the years. And yes, the first 3-4 inches past the chamber were horrible, after almost a month of scrubbing with various solvents, penetrating oils (and PB Blaster), Sweet's 7.62 solvent and JB bore cleaner it finally looks pretty good.
I even used 0000 steel wool wrapped on a 22 brush to scrape at the lead buildup!
Haven't got to shoot it yet as I also found my old Tasco scope had died (I think it was the one that came with a pump air rifle that was bought back in the 70's so I really can't complain!
Hope it is again a tackdriver, I used to use it for sniping groundhogs at 100-150 yds, I miss that accuracy.
My 17 HMR shoots better dirty than clean. The only thing I like dirty other than my 17 are martinis
To WaMtnhunter;
You keep dropping those little hints(croaker sacks),etc.
and I still don't know where you're from.
Whoa never would have guessed that..hopefully this makes my 10/22 more accurate lol
@WI Hunter, you need all the help you can get with a 10/22!!
For .22s you are right on DEP. I shot .22s competitively for a while and cleaning was a risky venture. I would surely never attempt a match with a clean barrel. The centerfires though need to be cleaned periodically to remove strange contaminants. To shoot best, a few fouling shots are necessary to return the barrel to its best accuracy. Most of my rifles shoot best after three to five fouling shots. I have one that took up to 15 fouling shots before the bullets started going through the same hole at 100 yards. Most competitive benchrest shooters won't step to the line with a completely clean barrel. For hunting, you are better off waiting until the end of season to clean your barrel unless you have encountered unusual circumstances.
When I was in the Army we would take a sandwich bag and a rubber band. Put it over the muzzle and keep it on with a rubber band. Majority of misfires are due to a dirty wepon.
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