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My Thoughts on the Aurora, CO Shooting

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July 23, 2012

My Thoughts on the Aurora, CO Shooting

By David E. Petzal

So now it is Aurora. Another homicidal geek has gotten his 15 minutes of fame via mass murder.

Amidst all the breast-beating, recriminations, and yowls for gun control, ammo control, and tactical equipment control, there are a number of questions that no one is bringing up. I think they should be asked.

The United States has always been a country in which guns of all types have been readily available. In the 1920s, Sears Roebuck sold Thompson submachine guns. After World War II, we were awash in military weapons. Yet Aurora and Columbine and Virginia Tech are all very recent. What’s changed?

What has changed is this: We seem to have finally succeeded in creating young men with no regard for human life. Probably there are not legions of them, but only one is too many. Their numbers cut across lines of race, education, and class. They shoot people, friends or strangers, singly or en masse, as casually as they slaughter in video games.

Maybe we’ve been in a few wars too many. Maybe our popular entertainment is too violent. Maybe our educational system has failed in this respect, as it has in many others. Maybe the news media should stop feasting on these horrors as vultures do on a carcass. Maybe it’s part of a general breakdown in society.

What are we going to do? No one has a clue. No one is even asking the question.

Guns are the least part of the equation. They are machines, and they do what their users want, no more no less. There is a line from the movie Full Metal Jacket that sums this up perfectly.

“Your rifle is only a tool. It is a hard heart that kills.”

There are more hard hearts out there, and we have no idea how to change them, so this is going to happen again.
______________________________
The editors of Field & Stream extend their heartfelt sympathies to the families and friends of the victims of the Aurora shooting.

Comments (108)

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from EDP1 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

If guns kill people all mine are broke!!!

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from CL3 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Well stated, DEP. Everyone needs to take a knee on this. People died. A sick person is responsible. Period.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from phconk wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

This man was crazy, plain and simple. The media thinks that gun control would have prevented this, but they can not wrap their heads around how psychotic some people are. He boobi-trapped his home with bombs. whats weird is he has no background in the military or has any training. On another note, I think that christian bale should go visit the injured children in the hospital, to cheer them up.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from DSMbirddog wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Your last three paragraphs sum up the situation to me.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Colorado Samurai wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

the Ten Commandments and prayer in schools might help. We need better tools to deal with mental help as well.

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from Colorado Samurai wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

the Ten Commandments and prayer in schools might help. We need better tools to deal with mental help as well.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Douglas wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

CL3, "Taking a knee" is exactly what is needed, but that is politically no longer correct.
We have not seen anything yet.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Josh Giannino wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Is it just me or does it seem funny that the media states how these guns were specifically bought from a Gander Mountain and a Bass Pro Shops, and they proceeded to name off exact calibers and brands, and models... were i can almost GUARENTEE that if those guns came from mexico they would have been labeled "hand gun" "assualt rifle" and a "shotgun". just proves that the news media is out against us.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

A sicko like this clown would have perpetrated a heinous act to call attention to himself one way or another with or without guns. The possibilities are endless. How many real Vietnam combat veterans have you heard doing such? We didn't have the shoot-em-up and violent video games and movies/TV to taint our very psyche like this current generation. Some saw enough death to last a lifetime as have some of our Iraq/Azzcrackistan vets. God help us.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from jay wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

In a country where we are closing in on 300 million people, there are going to be a few that are not wired quite right and go on a rampage. Like Dave said, it will happen again. Anti-Gun polititions of course are taking advantage of situation and asking for more gun control. If James didn't have guns, he would used some other tool like the bombs he had built. I don't mean to sound trite, but 1,100 people a day loose their lives to cigarettes but we will hear about the 12 unfortunate deaths for the next year.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from sgtsly wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Anybody calling for the removal of Halo 3 from the shelves? Or any of the other glorify killing and kill 'em all games.

+10 Good Comment? | | Report
from jjas wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I could speculate as to why someone does something like this but it would be just that.....speculation.

My thoughts go to the victims, their families and friends.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from walt in wi wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Also hard to not notice DEP's favorite mayor in front of any camera nearby demanding that both Obama and Romney "do something".... The stories that are coming out that tell of bravery and self-sacrifice show that heroes are all around us daily when something horrible like this happens.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Walt Smith wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I look at it this way-- If someone decides they are going to go out and kill as many people as possible there is nothing that will stop them, no laws, computer programs, churchs, schools, friends, family, etc. etc. etc. If they do get stopped it is simple pure luck or their own lack of it. No law that law abiding citizens follow will ever stop a non-law abiding citizen. The only thing that might have stopped this one would have been better security, but then they would have just been the first to die. A maniac is a maniac.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from PbHead wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

This attack was the result of a sick and broken heart.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Steward wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

There is only One who can fix what is wrong with guy, and the country needs Him more than ever before. I will remember the families in prayer, even while I enjoy my gun hobbies.

+7 Good Comment? | | Report
from RockySquirrel wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dave: Yep.

But I can't help thinking that there has to be a simple, way to cut down on the likelihood of crazy people getting guns. Longer waiting period? Signed affidavit from 2 people that you aren't nuts. I know its not fool proof and there are people who think I am a tad goofy, but I just looking for a way to weed out some of the serious looney tunes, without impacting the rest of us.

There are very few of life's problems that can't be solved, if you put some thought to this. Anyone got any suggestions?

-7 Good Comment? | | Report
from Sayfu wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

The only way to cut down on the crazies is to have folks be responsible, and turn them in when they see signs of what they could be up to. Everyone of these guys demonstrates a history of preparing for the event. They create numerous tipoffs dating back weeks, and months prior...but folks are apathetic, and don't inquire about them. Gun control will be pushed hard now, and a vote will be taken in several weeks...the UN gun control vote that includes handguns, rifles and shotguns. Then it will be put before our congress. Obama, and many on the left have been for this measure circumventing the 2nd Amendment.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Gsquare wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

As a seventy something man my observations over the last 40-50 years are that the breakdown of the family, no father at home, maybe a cause for all the kooks. Or maybe it 's the violent movies, games, including paintball. Or maybe it's the lack of respect for laws, even our president skirts the law to suit his purposes. Only thing we can do is to try in our own lifes not to continue these things. Get involved in the political process and vote for people who espouse your beliefs. Slowly it will change for the better, but you have to be proactive.
Small confession: I didn't when I was raising my family and they turned out great, but if I had been more proactive maybe some of the stuff that goes on would have been stopped!

+7 Good Comment? | | Report
from Safado wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I (and many others) have been struggling with why an intelligent, seemingly normal guy from a normal family would do such a thing. I can buy into Dave Petzal's idea that, "It is a hard heart that kills". But how did he get so hardened? He seems to have lived a relatively priviledged life. One of the surviving victims was quoted from his hospital bed saying, "What was so wrong in his life that he did this?" I don't have any answers except to feel for the families of the victims and survivors.

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from chuckles wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

In my opinion it comes down to the decay of a sense of community. Fewer people seem to feel they are part of a larger community which sets the standards for acceptable behavior. In the absence of a common moral compass people are left to define standards for themselves.
In a disconnected, highly mobile society this can be difficult. The lack of connection leads to dysfunctional behavior at a lot of levels and finds its most dramatic expression in tragedies like the one in Aurora.
So we do have some idea of how to change the hard hearts. Open yours to the people around you and make sure the kids know where the boundaries are. Even if the kids don't belong to you. There is a reason they say "It takes a village".
Sorry to wax philosophical but raising a child with autism has forced me to examine how people create and maintain the emotional ties that influence behavior.

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from wiscoguy wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dave your wrong, this is nothing new. There have always been people willing to to kill others for no good reason. In the 90's it was street gangs in la , Jeffery Dahmer, and Timothy Mcveigh. In the 80's It was poisoned Tylonol,James oliver Huberty (remember him?) , and Patrick Henry Sherrill. in the 70's Ted Bundy. In the 60's Charles Manson. In the 50's Charles Starkweather. In the 40's Howard Unrah. And In the 20's and the 30's Guys like pretty boy Floyd and Murder Inc killed a few people and if I remember correctly the were pretty fond of Thomsons. My point is don't romanticize the past. The violent crime rate is at record lows. There is nothing different about this generation than any other.

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from ITHACASXS wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal, I asked a NYS senator (Anthony Nanula) the very same thing when he was knocking doors for support in my neighborhood. The year was 1992 or 3, he was outraged at the availability of semi-automatic guns. I invited him (we had mutual friends) in our home and showed him a Remington model 11. I told him Mr. Browning made this gun and they have been selling them since 1905. I told him of the M-1 carbines that could be had for paper-route money in the 50's-60's. I asked him why (among other things) wasn't there gangs so armed with these inexpensive guns shooting up and terrorizing Buffalo N.Y. back then? He was un-moved. It was then on that I have learned that there is no talking to those who wish to dis-arm us. They (not me or you) have helped create the monsters you've mentioned.I pray God will continue to help my wife and I raise good citizens.

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from Mark-1 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

My half-ass speculations:

-Recall seeing this Colorado scenario in Europe with the 60's, 70’s and 80's terrorist attacks by various radical organizations. These attacks featured small groups of people unloading auto and/or semi auto firearms in public places. The fire power was telling. 200 to 400 rounds were expended within a minute or two. But these were terrorist attacks. I see no difference between Colorado latest shooting and Columbine.

-The call for additional gun control is a symmetrical response to an asymmetrical situation. These guys are so smart and diabolical I believe the real limiting factor is their financial resources.

-What's emerging is a weird group of domestic terrorists flying under the radar. These guys want to kill everyone, including their friends. The two Columbine Shooters became shooters when their grand scheme setting off two bombs triggers in the cafeteria & kitchen failed. That failure saved hundreds of lives, but implemented a 50-minutes shooting rampage.

-Tough to stop. What creeps me out is these terrorist acts are financed and planned over long periods. These guys save money [Columbine attack was financed by a part-time, after school pizza job]. They come from good homes and families. They're smart. They fool everyone....friends, parents, teachers, professors, medical professionals, LEO's and judges.

It takes a special person to pull this off.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Pretty much said it all Dave.

What has changed is how the media and those in Government want more and more control of our lives. When we were young, we didn't have any problems and there was no laws said we could or could not, we just knew there is and I going to say it, 'a level of responsibility in our own actions'!

It's OK to take the cross and put it into a jar full of urine etc. I believe this Joker Fella wanted to get a rise out of everyone and he went to far and probably now reality is starting to creep in.

As for the death penalty, no....
Life without parole and pictures of the victims and family on the wall with who they were, life ambitions and who misses them now.

Bottom line,

we have to many laws restricting what we can or cannot do. Making sound decisions and who bares the responsibility has all been tossed out the window and now it's someone elses fault. NOPE IT'S NOT! The boy screwed up and the trial shouldn't last over a week, that simple. But the going to parade every swinging idiot they can find and milk it for what's it worth and as long as they can.

The hell with the laws, get Government out of our lives and bring bring back self responsibility!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from focusfront wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

A couple of thoughts.

Wiscoguy, things are a lot worse now than they used to be. I was there then, I'm here now.

Second, the irony is that gun laws worked fine in Colorado. In that theater were off-duty cops and servicemen; all unarmed. The theater was a gun free zone. So the gun laws did what gun laws always do; disarm the law abiding citizen and give the murderer a clear field of fire. Of course the reaction will be more gun laws.

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from Sneaky wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Horrible parenting.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

wiscoguy (Twilight Zone Music Please)

Am I a criminal?

Yes: Shoot innocent defenseless people.

No: Leave gun in car.

www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150920313344371&set=a.1015019086660937...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago
from Mark Orlicky wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dave, agree with all you've said.
For the Dianne Feinsteins and Michael Bloombergs of the world, who are using this latest incident as a political opportunity for their private agenda...
This idiot, James Holmes, spent several months buying explosives, chemicals, weapons, and ammo. If he couldn't buy the guns, I'm convinced he would have used explosives to also kill people. Sound familiar? Timothy McVeigh spent a number of months gathering fertilizers, fuel oil, and explosives while he prepared for the awful thing he did in Oklahoma City.
Don't you see the similarity?

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from 007 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dave, I was just watching this unfold on the news when I found your post tonight and you are spot on, but I must also agree with a lot of the responses, when we took prayer and the Ten Commandments out of the school system and chased the Father out of our lives, this is the result. I think it's just another piece of the evil that awaits us as the end of days approaches. Like someone said above, God help us.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from jakenbake wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I totally agree, Dave. And Chuckles, you said it better than I can. I've thought long and hard about the lack of community. I ache for the sense of community when I was growing up - and I was a child not even two decades ago. Technology has been sold as a great connector, but I believe it has truly been a great disconnector. No longer do we spend time with neighbors or family, but in front of computers and TV. We are under a constant barrage of images whose sole goal is to wear down our moral center in hopes of selling more commodities. We are literally watching civilization crumble.

Our only hope is ourselves - take the time to interact with neighbors, family, people who look like the need the companionship of others. Love one another. If we do not act, we are only contributing to the decay.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from bonedoc33 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I agree that, unfortunately, this will happen again. I just hope that the next time it does, a person legally carrying a concealed handgun stands up and puts a bullet between the whackjob's eyes and stops the rampage before it gets started. It would be pretty hard to argue in favor of gun control in the wake of that. Then again, the MSM probably wouldn't even pick up the story.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Longhunter wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I think that the problem lies with some of our available technology. We really don't communicate with anyone directly. We are taught now to email and text and it has been gradually removing us from the basically talking to each other. The farther that we remove ourselves from actually interacting with each other the closer we get to looking at others as objects rather than human beings. There will always be moments as horrible as this and not all of the gun laws in the world will make a difference.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from wiscoguy wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

focusfront,

While I know i'm not going to change your mind, I really believe that the reason people perceive things to be worse now is that there is so much media saturation on events like this. Before the mid 90's this would have been on the front page of the major news papers for one day and maybe some updates on page 5 as the trial went on or on the nightly news for a week. Now its on every cable news network 24/7 until they see something shinny and get distracted. I can go on-line and see his match. comm ad. the fact is in 2010 there were about 14700 murders in the US this is the lowest number since 1967.

Clay cooper,

I must inform you that I am not in favor of gun laws as I think you were i getting at with your post. Mr. Petzal implied that that we didn't have these problems when Thompsons were widely available or when military surplus was widely available. As pointed out gangster in the 20's and 30's made use of Thompsons and Howard Unrah killed 12 people with a Luger he brought back from WWII in 1949.

On another note wouldn't telling the theatre owner he had to allow guns on his private property be government intrusion as well?

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from dale freeman wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal;
You have said what I would love to say, but unable to put it the way you have.
Thank you.
To G square;
Don't beat yourself up.
In 37 yrs. of law enforcement, I did participate on every front
Did I make a difference. I don't think so.
As far as the gun issue, remember, he had hand grenades and bombs.
One day at a time, address it.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Buckshott00 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I will try to stay on subject, but I didn't hear anyone clamoring for alarms on theater doors. No one is saying how this tragedy could have been avoided if not for a very simple piece of hardware. Instead they want to make it easier for law abiding citizens to be victims; installing the same conditions that let this evil man go unchecked on his spree.

While it is pretty clear that he was a high functioning individual with deep seeded problems, I am inclined to use to word "evil" here.

Everyone wants to say disturbed or sick. However this was evil. People want to believe that all of this can be explained away as mental illness but this act was evil, and evil will always exist in this world. The only defense is being prepared to deal with it.

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from abiddle013 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

First of all, my heart goes out to those involved. Events like this are becoming all too common. Its sad to see where some people will point their fingers at times like these, none of which should be pointed guns. Like mentioned before guns are machines that do as they are told. A sorry individual misused some tools with a gross negligence for human life. I just hope that he makes it to general population for a little prison justice.

And for the media turning on the weapon dealers and manufacturers... I can only hope that someone slows them down before they manage to strip the responsible gun owners of their most precious liberties. I also hope that I never see the day when those freedoms are taken away.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

It is time to reflect on the lives lost and support the grieving families. We should put all anger aside in an attempt to understand this disturbed young man.

Those who seek reason with revenge or anger will never fully understand the workings of the human mind.

Those who seek reason by attacking the 2A, have jumped on the wrong bus.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from ingebrigtsen wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

maybe we shall recreate the world in an image where making money is not the ultimate goal and greed is not hailed as a virtue.. when everything can be quantified into money it looses its inherent value.. also people.. and evil cannot be outlawed.. trying will only create it..
condolances to all involved... from norway, one year after ABB

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from T.W. Davidson wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

All . . .

I'm a shooter. I'm a defense attorney. In a past life I was a Marine officer.

The older I get, the more I see and experience, the more I am certain that "Good" and "Evil" exist as natural elements around us.

An example of Evil: The sociopath psychotic nutball in Colorado.

An example of Good: People who, when the shooting began, instinctively, unhesitatingly, protected their loved ones, or even complete strangers, with their own lives, their own souls.

Noble sacrifice. Tragic, yet there is a grace and beauty about it. (Much better, of course, that the horrific event never occurred in the first place.)

We can't see "Evil" or "Good," but to paraphrase Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendall Holmes decades ago in what was also, arguably, a "Evil" vs."Good" (or the other way around) case, "I know it when I see it." And, almost always, we do.

I don't know whether science will ever support my theory that "Good" and "Evil" exist as natural elements all around us. What I do know is that, just like helium or hydrogen or oxygen or nitrogen have always existed but were eventually "discovered" by science in the 19th and 20th centuries, and, similarly, as the atom or molecule or neutron or electron or quark weren't even imagined centuries ago but are taken for granted today, I have no doubt that "Good" and "Evil" are equally real elements that exist around us all the time. We merely have to "see" these diametrically opposed elements, to open our minds to the reality of their existence, before we can strengthen one to defeat the other.

But that is a subject for a different day.

My deepest sympathies to the wounded and the dead--and their families and friends--in the Aurora shooting. I'm sorry for your loss and your pain.

Let "Good" prevail among all of us in days and decades ahead.

TWD

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from 1uglymutha wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

the loonies that destroyed the federal building in oklahoma city did not use guns. those who are crazy enough to justify the destruction of fellow human beings will find a way to do so with or without guns. one good man with a concealed carry permit might have prevented much of the carnage that was wrought at the theater in aurora. no rational person wants to see our society return to the days of the "wild west " but now, as in any other era, people must do what is necessary to protect themselves and others. gun control is not the answer. gun control is the problem. the second amendment is as valid today as the day it was written.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Some interesting thoughts. I certainly agree that it is a social illness. And it seems to be spreading. Especially among young people. That's the scary part. Wish the kids today went for the same outlets for unique self-expression that were popular in my youth. I much prefer harmless dirty pot-smoking hippie bums over these modern blood-thirsty kooks. And we thought it was terrible when kids streaked nude through theaters. Now look what they're doing there. What's the next generation going to be in for? Now that's a REAL scary thought!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

From Wiscogy:
"On another note wouldn't telling the theatre owner he had to allow guns on his private property be government intrusion as well?"
Not really, this theater is open to the general public much like the sidewalks outside; it wasn't the owner's home.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Certain groups and movements have sought to marginalize God in America. The result is that all Hell is breaking loose.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Dr. Killdeer wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Gun free zones are target rich environments. Anyone with half a brain could figure out that an armed audience would have nailed this lunatic to the Bat screen. The bad guy dies, the good, law abiding, free and armed citizens live. We are not free. These are the consequences. Liberal (i.e. communist, statists) want more of the same.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Moose1980 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Thanks DEP for putting into words something I was unable to do. Over the last few days, my non-gun owning friends have been asking me what I think of what happened. I find myself at a loss for words really. Now I have something to point them to.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mark-1 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Additional:

Curious thing, when his mom was approached by police (she's a forensic psych) and asked if they had right person she immediately said "yep- that's him".
You're kid butchers 12 people and you say "yep that's him"! Little Weird.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from makersman wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

News media is a big part of the the reason these shooting are happening. It makes head lines and the people that carry out these shootings are starving for attention. You rarely hear of any good news and if you do it is a small segment that you for get about in 2 seconds after you go on with your day to day life

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from tom warner wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

There is not much to say about all this that has not already been said countless times, none of it very helpful. Our third rate politicians are the least helpful of all. It should be pointed out that mass killings are not just taking place in the U.S. Similar events have gone down in Germany, Norway, Canada, England, Korea, etc., so it seems to be a world-wide phenomenon. Maybe as humanity's numbers increase beyond all reason, insane behavior also increases, just as with overcrowded lemmings, rats, and any other animals. I have always believed human beings were basically insane anyway; otherwise humanity would not now be in the increasingly awful dilemma's that we now find ourselves in, most of which could have been avoided using basic common sense.

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from firedog11 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Evil exists and will always exist, it is the opposite of good which is something the news media never talks about. I must agree the news media and popular entertainment have gone a long way to glorify the "evil" individual as misgiuded and in need of help. The only help this guy needs is a sort rope and a stout branch.

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from firedog11 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Tom by the way I agree with what you say except concerning common sense, it is in very short supply.

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from deadeyedick wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Well said everyone. Until some genius comes up with a machine that can scan our thoughts or see into the future these things will happen. As the BoyScouts motto says " be prepared "
Hello Dale. Don't ever sell yourself short for the job you did for all those years. You should be proud of yourself I for one salute you sir.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from kansasjeff wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

as the old saying goes the only thing worse than being completly alone in the world is to be completly alone surounded by others. these killing happen because people have become disconnected from any sence of community or belonging. And with that they lose their sence of empathy for fellow human beings. it isn't guns that are the problem(the Bath school disaster, one of the worst mass killings in history, was carred out with explosives)

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from SL wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Say what you want, but weapons have become more potent for those who do want to do evil things with them, and in this country pretty much anyone can get them. You rarely hear about mass murders of this nature committed with knives, clubs, ropes, etc. so it is a bit silly to think that guns don't somehow make such murders easier. Exactly why a civilian would need the type of magazine this guy had attached to his rifle is beyond me?? I have never even seen military or law enforcement with such a device, so why should a civilian be able to have it so readily??

You can look at this from any angle you want, but this guy looked like a poster boy for all the tactical fanatics out there. As we all know, there are many out there these days. From jackboots to helmet, to bullet proof vests he was dressed in high style for anyone who gets a kick out of this type of stuff. And then of course he had the weaponry to top it all off!

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I feel for the living. Even though Colorado has the death penalty. This tragedy will be played out over years. The some of people affected may not live long enough to have closure. Now there is a made for TV movie in the works. The LEO's on the scene should be commended for their professionalism and restraint.

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from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

For SL:

Whets 's name managed to kill 164 in Oklahoma with fertilizer and kerosene. Obviously it's much too easy to get these items...without an FBI background check,a letter from your local police chief and a psychiatrist's blessing.

Many of us have forgotten the paramount reason for the 2nd Amendment - to deter or, if needed, overthrow tyranny.

Heaven forbid we should ever have to resort to the latter then 1000 round magazines will still leave us all here seriously outgunned.

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I reread DP's post and being an older guy that that has lived in a large multicultural neighborhoods. I would like to comment on then and now. We have always had the death penalty. Albeit it didn't take 12 years from conviction to execution. In fact it was only since the Son of Sam that a felon couldn't profit for his twisted life story. This being said as the survivors have to relive the terror through the appeal system. This waste of bone and blood will get fat, develop hobbies and get proposals of marriage. Perhaps to be pardoned in the distant future. I and my family have always been law and order. But there has always been a organized group where I lived that enforced it's own laws. They also had the death penalty for transgressions. It didn't take years and it could be medieval at times. But it did work very well amongst themselves. I believe that is were the wheels have come off. In instances like this justice should be just and swift.

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from Zermoid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Has anyone else noticed that the violence in America has risen as religion has been been pushed further and further from our schools and society?

The Constitution says "freedom OF Religion" not freedom FROM religion as most seem to think nowadays.

I don't believe this is a coincidence either......

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from Safado wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I can tell from a number of post that we all seem to be struggling with this senseless act. TWD's post strikes me as right on point. I really don't think this is a gun issue guns were just the weapon that he chose to use because he clearly could have used explosives. There is a striking similarity to the crazed killer in Sweden last year that set bombs in downtown Stokholm (I beieve) then went to an island where there was a camp and shot the children. I think what is so frustrating is that there is no easy answer to this problem.

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from Josh Giannino wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

In a chaotic event such as this, I doubt people could have the best judgement of what happened, In the mass confusion it could have looked like tear gas came from the opposite corner

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dr Kildare: I'm sure if everyone in the audience had been armed the death toll would have been a lot worse. A building full of panicking people all fully armed? That scares the crap out of me just thinking about it.

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from tom warner wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dave and for those of you who are interested, Ron Paul's response to this is very good and worth reading. He's always a voice of sanity. Check it out on his site.

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from Hugh Bryan wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

"What are we going to do? No one has a clue."
I do. "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
Zermoid has pointed out the elephant in the room.
I have raised my children and now help raise my grandchildren on bended knee. I have no fear that they will ever conceive of a crime such as this. None of man's laws, government's edicts,or legislated morality will change a thing. The only thing that can change a hardened heart is Jesus Christ. One at a time. Each of these sick murderers were at one time, savable. In my youth, a child who may not know God at home, had a chance of learning about Him at school. We have incrementally allowed ourselves to be driven to this spiritual desert. My prayers are for the victims and their families, and for revival in this wonderful country.

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from SL wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

"Whets 's name managed to kill 164 in Oklahoma with fertilizer and kerosene. Obviously it's much too easy to get these items...without an FBI background check,a letter from your local police chief and a psychiatrist's blessing."

How many people do homemade bombs kill per year in the US compared to firearms?? No contest there. Murder happened LONG before firearms were ever invented, BUT anyone who thinks that a gun doesn't make it easier for someone to actually go thru with murder is kidding themselves. It's a whole lot messier (and takes way more intestinal fortitude) to strangle, knife, or club someone to death than it is standing a ways away and firing with a gun. A gun is the least hands on, yet the most effective way to kill someone, thus it's the method of choice. You boys simply can't accept the realities that there are correlations between the easy accessibility of firearms in this country with the high gun murder rate. No, banning guns won't stop murder, but having so MANY guns around DOES help keep the murder rate good and high.

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from Josh Giannino wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

SL- where do you get this im better then the rest of you mindset? We have our rights to protect ourselves, There is less firearm ownership now, then ever in this country and we have MORE of these mass murders, explain this? and since gun restrictions have loosen crime has been decreasing, Im pretty sure you think twice before raping, murdering or robbing someone if you know there is a good possibility its gonna be your last act on earth, the tighter the gun laws, the more outlaws there will be, Im not giving up ANY of the firearms I own and someday hope to own with out a fight.

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from SL wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

"SL- where do you get this im better then the rest of you mindset? "

So where did I say I was better than you? I am only pointing out some realities that many gun owners can't seem to understand. Think what you wish. I obviously can't change your mind or anyone else's. Just keep in mind that you and those who think like you won't change the other sides mindset either. There are two sides to every story and issue and both sides will have its truths AND lies.

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from Camdog wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

A "hard heart". Succinly and accurately stated.

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from Josh Giannino wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

SL- we dont have to changethe other sides mind set, we have to convince those on the fence to see our side.

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from tom warner wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Well SL, your reference to us as "you boys" certainly reveals your feelings of superiority. Surprisingly, there actually are more than a few mature and thoughtful individuals among us "boys". Have you really listened to anything that has been said about these tragedies? Would anything make you stray from your narrow point of view? These awful events, as I said in a previous comment, have been happening all over the world, and have been taking place in societies where firearm availability is far more restricted. The recent huge slaughter in Norway for example. Your point of view is far too simplistic and avoids the real issues, whatever those issues are? Which is the real question, is it not? Also, the millions of gun owners in our society who have NOT murdered anyone is a point that should be made more often. I do not believe that fewer guns will ever solve anything, much as many would have us think. This debate will no doubt go on forever, but logic recently seems to be winning out.

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from sarg wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I believe he could have done what he did with out fireing a shot. He knew how to make a few pipe bombs with deadly effect. Some one there on the first row should have been carrying and put a stop to it .

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from sarg wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I believe he could have done what he did with out fireing a shot. He knew how to make a few pipe bombs with deadly effect. Some one there on the first row should have been carrying and put a stop to it .

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from SL wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

"Have you really listened to anything that has been said about these tragedies?"

And why should this be called a tragedy?? You seem to be using the same terminology as the liberal media. These acts are atrocities and NOT tragedies.

Obviously there are many reasons that would drive a person to commit such an act, and there will be plenty of armchair psychologists coming up with various reasons. My only point here is that guns DO make it easier for people to carry out such acts.. I am not calling for the ban of guns, since I own them also. I am only stating that guns can and DO make it easier to commit such acts in today's world. Take it or leave it fellas. I won't change anyone's mind here, nor will you change mine.

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from Paul Wilke wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

A lot of people out there are hurting, take a moment and offer a prayer.
Hear's a scenario for you, nut job # 1 opens the exit doors of a theater on the opening day of well attended movie, he picks up four five gallon cans of gasoline, walks to the back of the theater and dumps the cans across that back of the theatre and lights the gas as it flows to the front of the theatre. You can imagine the terror, the pain and fear and the casualties. Nut job #1 has just shown his dominance over a large group of helpless and innocent people and proved to himself that he is somehow great.
Would restricting the sale of gas be the answer, or mandated personal fire extinguisher for everyone.
Let's find the nut jobs, and fix them if possible, focus on that. Find the Hitlers before they cause a world of hurt.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

To SL . . .

Evil in the form and actions of a psychotic nutball killed many and injured more in Aurora, Co. That the nutball used guns to commit his evil is irrelevant, considering that with his background and training (a Ph.D. science graduate student), he could have easily made and used a bomb or IED instead.

And had some people in that theater had guns and known how to use them, maybe even if only one person in that theater had had a gun and used it, some or all of the Aurora tragedy might not have occurred.

Guns are neither "Good" or "Evil."

People are.

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from Matt McKinney wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Mr. Petzel,

A good friend of mine was an Iraq war vet who murdered his wife and then killed himself. Until he joined the USAF, he had never held a gun, never cleaned a fish, never taken a life or watched even a squirrel die by his own hand. Suddenly he was thrown into a situation where he is expected to kill other men just to survive, with no background in life or death, and it ruined him. His story is not unique. Young men today do not grow up with any appreciation for ANY life, not just human lives. We don't even pay attention when our grandparents die; we spend gobs of money keeping them alive and then Hospice handles the hard part. Youngsters are totally insulated from death. Is it any surprise these maniacs are all 1) the yuppy type, and 2) using guns for the first time as murderers? Gun control is not the answer. Young men need to use guns responsibly, take the lives of animals (and feel bad about it, like we all do at first, and might still do), and maybe that fantasy about murdering people won't be so strong. We as a culture have just removed ourselves too much from the real life and death dynamic of the natural world.

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from MReeder wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Any time there's any incident like the one in Aurora the natural human tendency is to dissect it, attempt to understand it, find a logical explanation for it and apply preventatives. It is almost impossible for people to accept that random acts can be committed by random individuals and that there is no way to see it coming or to head it off. That's why conspiracy theories always take root after the assassination of a public figure. The mind just can’t wrap around the fact that some things are as unpreventable and as arbitrary as a tornado that destroys one house while leaving the one next door standing.
I agree with DP that we have been creating a whole generation of little velociraptors. When you subsidize dependency, lack of responsibility and anti-social behavior and then excuse it when it happens it should come as no surprise that you get more of all those things. However, I doubt if Holmes fits any real sociological profile. He's just one sick SOB. That does not mean "legally insane," which requires that the perp not know right from wrong. He obviously did and does and unless he's got a tumor in his head he's fully qualified to face execution, even though everyone can agree that he's a homicidal maniac.
Unfortunately, when you have more than 300-million people living in this country some of them are going to be homicidal maniacs and nothing you do is going to change that.
The only thing you can do is mitigate the carnage and the only way to do that is to shoot the shooter down the instant he opens fire. That might well have happened had the Aurora theater not forbidden licensed concealed carriers from bringing their sidearms with them.
As for any gun law that might have made a difference, the only one I can think of would be a federal law requiring all active duty military to carry their sidearms with them at all times. It would need to be a federal law to countermand any state restrictions. Localities should also require off-duty police officers to be armed at all times with no private business exceptions allowed. I don't know if there was a cop in that theater or not, but there were at least a couple of soldiers, and they might have been able to do something if they had been armed; just as concealed license holders might have done something had the theater not forbidden their weapons. Amazingly, Holmes paid no more attention to the theater's gun ban than he did to the statutes against mass murder. Who would have thought?
Finally, if there is any politician more reprehensible than NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg I don't know who it is. Antigunners are always going to try to exploit any shooting to push their agenda, but to do it while the bodies are still lying where they fell is beyond repugnant. Voters in NYC should be ashamed of themselves.

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from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Heard one TV talking head say that the body armor worm by this pathetic animal would have negated any effect of return fire from those in the audience.

Typical of almost all in the media when it comes to the topic of firearms, this fool had no idea of the powerful effect of a solid hit on someone wearing body armor with any decent handgun load. Of course a head shot would have been best - then there would be no expensive trial with expensive lawyers, expensive judges, expensive psychiatrists all paid by you and me.

Oh yes, almost forgot the poor souls on the jury who will get something less than minimum wage!

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from woodsdog wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I agree with DEP completely. The whole story is tragic. Can you imagine how his parents must feel?? But, to quickly turn to gun control as the answer is another fear based liberal response not a freedom based one. This guy could have easily drove into the theater with a pickup truck, or started clubbing people with a hammer. Should we "control vehicles and hammers"? The state run media capitalizes on emotion and irrationality instead of facts and objectivity. A good start to this countries woes is to start getting real with everything in life. Life isn't cream puffs and cookies on bright sunny days everyday with solutions to every problem. More people need to find God and damn it, more law abiding good people need to start carrying firearms! I would never want to be in a situation like that with my family; but I would hope I had my sidearm to defend myself. This is certainly a terribly horrible and tragic situation... but its not the guns fault! We need to get back to the basics folks!

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from micko77 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

There are many opinions as to the whys and hows to have stopped this and other murderers; what sickens me is the glee in the hearts-- you know it's there-- of those who would dance in the blood of the dead if it would advance their political/social agenda. And they aren't commenting here, they're probably at a fundraiser.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Nothing can be said, or any point made, to explain the terrible act of killing innocent people particularly in horrific fashion as this sick man has done in CO. This Sh#t puts me in a funk, but also reminds me to renew my carry permit ASAP. If it be God's will for me to by chance save a family from losing their children, or a young person's life, let it be done.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Drunk drivers kill 40 innocent people a day in the US but they are just drunk drivers. Heck

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from RockySquirrel wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Jim in Mo; Damn right.
Its not about platitudes and commiserating it is about perspective. And how many are kids are lured into drugs and waste their lives and kill themselves one piece at a time. And liberal hollywood still glamorizes it. A way whole lot more that anyone killed by a crazy with a Gun. More innocents are killed by drug gangsters shootings then nut balls with a gun. At one time more hunters were killed in 1 deer season by other hunters than where killed in this latest in Colorado. So its not about guns, its about politics. I never pointed a firearm at anyone (except while in uniform) and neither did you. Yet we will be the ones looking to pay this price.

This guy didn't have a hard heart. Thats giving him too much credit. He had no heart. He lived in a separate universe where it is all 1 big TV show and video game. He was detached from reality and apparent still is. And frankly so is most of the media and a few politicians.

And speaking of detached from reality; I will say it again, even though no one is listening and I am not sure some of us aren't just a little hard hearted or think they are living in a reality (Zombie killer) TV show; we (gun owners) are still feeding grieving America the same stale platitudes and canned 2nd amendment responses that do ABSOLUTELY nothing to solve the problem. We need less politics and more on fixing the problem. Very few problems can't be solved if you get the bureaucrats and politicians out of the way.

Either we (gun openers of America) get in front of this train and steer it our way with some intelligent compromises that we can ALL live with, and get this issue out of the hands of the professional showboaters on both sides of the issue who are getting rich on the blood money or there will be at lots more of these nut balls and then yours and mine: AR, hunting rifle and handgun this time REALLY WILL BE in jeopardy. It won't be longer waiting period or smaller magazines, they will be coming for your target AR, shotguns, and .22 and any other thing they can glamorize and that really will be the beginning of the end.

Bottom line: LESS RHETORIC AND MORE PROBLEM SOLVING IDEAS FROM PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY SAFELY KEEP AND USE FIREARMS! Generally I say my piece and move on. But you guys have begin to disappoint me. Only 5 minuses last time?

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from woodsdog wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Spot On Jim in Mo!!!

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from SL wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Rocky said:
"And speaking of detached from reality; I will say it again, even though no one is listening and I am not sure some of us aren't just a little hard hearted or think they are living in a reality (Zombie killer) TV show; we (gun owners) are still feeding grieving America the same stale platitudes and canned 2nd amendment responses that do ABSOLUTELY nothing to solve the problem. We need less politics and more on fixing the problem. Very few problems can't be solved if you get the bureaucrats and politicians out of the way.
Either we (gun openers of America) get in front of this train and steer it our way with some intelligent compromises that we can ALL live with, and get this issue out of the hands of the professional showboaters on both sides of the issue who are getting rich on the blood money or there will be at lots more of these nut balls and then yours and mine: AR, hunting rifle and handgun this time REALLY WILL BE in jeopardy. It won't be longer waiting period or smaller magazines, they will be coming for your target AR, shotguns, and .22 and any other thing they can glamorize and that really will be the beginning of the end.
Bottom line: LESS RHETORIC AND MORE PROBLEM SOLVING IDEAS FROM PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY SAFELY KEEP AND USE FIREARMS! Generally I say my piece and move on. But you guys have begin to disappoint me. Only 5 minuses last time?"

Does my soul a lot of good to read something like this from a fellow gun owner. At least some of us can understand that the same old song and dance by gun owners is getting very OLD. If we don't initiate some safeguards ourselves, others will and I can guarantee that most here will not like what they will get.

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from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

For RockySquirrel and SL...

Are you serious? Did you actually suggest compromise is possible with the gun hating liberals? The same liberals that have proven time and time again if you give an inch they will take a mile and then come back for the rest.

"Either we (gun openers of America) get in front of this train and steer it our way with some intelligent compromises that we can ALL live with..."

Don't wave any white flags on my account, it will only encourage them.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

After listening to the whack jobs and to those who are trying to figure out this “OUT RAGE” and spare me the tragedy “BS”! I realize there’s more to it, far more than we realize and I’m going to put it into a nut shell and if you don’t understand it and/or agree with it, then you’re part of the equation why this happens.

Our Nation was founded on rights, privileges but more so ones responsibility to one’s self and to society. Not a rule of laws to do and/or not to do. Yes, speed limits and regulations are a must in many cases, but how we live and act is a responsibility not to be burden down by laws and regulations. There‘s nothing written you must form a line at the register at a store, open a door for someone just to name a few.

Being out in public with a firearm requires responsibility. There is a reason we don’t have shooting on shooting ranges and other events where those with firearms congregate, we have zero tolerance for the misuse of any weapon and the conduct of poor judgment.

I blame society for what has appended and no, I’m not giving the joker a pass period despite what some psycho whack job says it was his childhood or watching a movie. When I was a kid, Combat and other war shows and movies interested me, so did the 3 stooges and the Little Rascals and I don’t have any voices in my head to go out to harm anyone, in fact the opposite is true.

Yesterday I posted on my FB page,

“Alex and I went to the movies today, The Dark Knight Rises. Everyone in the building was having a great time and the place couldn't be any safer. Did I mention there was no "No weapons Allowed" signs anywhere?”

Yes, I was more observant than usual and more on my guard to respond to any threat, it’s just my nature. Just like in School, I was always defending those against bullies; guess you can say nothing has really changes.

My case and point is this,

We as a Nation as inundated ourselves with so many rules and regulations and given all the responsibility over to the Government we lack the ability (except some of us) the ability to be responsible for our own actions, it’s no wonder what happened in Aurora Colorado . We need to eliminate those ridicules laws and regulations like shooting ducks off the back of mules (Florida) and putting salt on a railroad track (bit of hyperbole here) and get back to responsibly of one’s own actions.

Sorry I don’t have time to proof read this, but the intent is very clear.

So excuse me Ladies and Gentlemen while I must start to get around for my Friend Jacks funeral.

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from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

BTW 2+2 still equals 4 even though it's an old argument.

If you think we must play their game and keep coming up with new arguments we will eventually and inevitably run out and then they win.

That nonsense about us using "the same old arguments" is the same old argument the liberals always drag out. I have heard them use it over and over again.

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from MReeder wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Someone suggested that Christian Bale should visit shooting victims in the hospital. He has, on his own and with no advance fanfare. The story's up now in the UK's Daily Mail, with a link on the Drudge Report. The visit speaks well of Bale, who bore no more real obligation to do anything than anyone else. All he did was act in a movie that millions wanted to see.
On another front, Fox News is reporting that Holmes sent a box of material to a psychiatric professor that included stick figures of him shooting people in a theater. The material arrived July 12, a week before the shootings, but was never delivered or opened.
That will probably begin a new round of questions and recriminations; but you have to ask yourself if it would have made any difference if anyone has opened it at once. The answer is almost certainly, no. Bad things happen to good people all the time, and that is just a fact of life that is never going to change. All any of us can control is how we act in the here and now.

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from JohnR wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I think taking the real guns away from our youth and the proper training to compete or hunt with them and replacing them with violent video,games is one way kids have gotten a good dose of un-reality. As for more firearm regulation, well, all the last mass shootings,took place in gun free zones.

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from bluegraytx wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

For those who missed the important comment by focusfront, here it is again: "The theater was a gun free zone. So the gun laws did what gun laws always do; disarm the law abiding citizen and give the murderer a clear field of fire". How often have the no-more-gun types argued just the opposite, that is, it was a good thing no one else had a gun in the theater or more people would have been killed. Really?

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from focusfront wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Thank you, bluegraytx.

SL, not to pile on you but that man was not sick. He was surrounded by Ph.ds his whole adult life; wouldn't someone have noticed something? Or is psychology and psychiatry just a joke?

No, he wasn't sick. Would he have done what he did if there had been a policeman standing next to him? So much for the uncontrollable urge to kill theory.

Did he carefully plan his attack, at length and over time, and did his plans coincide with real world conditions? Yes. So much for the idea that he had lost touch with reality.

This guy is evil. Please don't explain this away by saying, "Would a sane person have done what he did?" There are people that wonder why a sane person would go to church, except in a pine box. This guy is evil.

Someone said this earlier; first we locked God in a closet, now we wonder why the devil has so much elbow room.

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from Safado wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

This is not a gun issue it is a cultural issue. For all of the good people that our culture creates (the majority) we produce some real wack jobs (the minority). If all of us were GOOD there would be no need for prisons. This EVIL person with a hard heart fooled a lot of people for a long time. He will get the same treatment as the D.C. sniper. He will receive a fair trial where all of the Is are dotted and the Ts are crossed. He will be found guilty and sentenced to death. His appeals will be exhausted rapidly because the Is were dotted and the Ts crossed and he will be summarily executed!

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from Ncarl wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Let's get this straight. Guns didn't cause it, movies didn't cause it, video games didn't cause it. Nothing caused it. The fact of the matter is there are just evil people out there who will do evil things. This is a stat I saw on fox news, I don't remember the exact numbers but the Colorado shooting would have had to happen every day for years to amount to the genocides in africa. And I'm far from some humanitarian whistle blower who cares more about other country's then my own. My point is there was no violent movies or video games and very few guns in Africa. Most of the killings were done with machetes because they were cheap, it was just a matter of evil people doing evil things that are, unfortunately, unavoidable.

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from rustvyper wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Wow, really Mr. Petzal? I expected better of you.
Google "List of massacres in the United States" & educate yourself a little. THEN come back & tell me stories about the good-old days.

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from Lord_Darth_Vader wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Well I know I'm going to get jumped on for typing this. But before you jump on me let me tell you.

I own 7 Remington 700s, 3 Sakos, a Remington 7400, 2 Browning A Bolts, 2 Noslers, 3 Benellis, 4 Remington 1100s, Remington 11-87, 2 Beretta Xtrema IIs. 1 Tarus in 40 cal & 1 40 cal Smith & Wesson. All my rifles are topped off with either Zeiss, Swarovskis or Kahles scopes. I'm an avid hunter and fisherman. Been hunting and fishing around the world in my 40 short years on this earth.

All that being said I support the 2nd Amendment and our rights to hunt, fish and to protect ourselves and our families. But the bible teaches that TOO MUCH OF ANYTHING is a bad thing and TOO MUCH of anything becomes your blind idol. There is no place in the deer woods for ARs. There is no place in civilized societies for ARs with 100s magazines. I'm sorry, but pistols and shotguns having been defending families fine for hundreds of years. The argument of self defense from the government is MOOT & foolish. If Mr. Obama or any president for that matter wants to come get you, you're going to jail or your going to die. You CAN NOT fight the federal government with an assault weapon. Ask Randy Weaver. Ask the foolish Branch Davidians that tried with full automatic weapons. As the bible teaches too much work, too much food, too much wine, too much play, too much sex too much of anything is not good for man. We've gone overboard with guns.

And even IF assault weapons are allowed maybe a cooling off period, an AR class & psychological test may have prevented this mess, past massacres and future massacres.

For those of you who argue tools. If we allowed certain explosives to be legal & readily available to any Joe Smith off the street, guns would never be used. We'd have people strapping bombs to themselves or tossing sticks of dynamite around. The reason they don't is because any idiot can't order dynamite offline or get it from the local hardware store. Only those with special permits and of the finest sound mind and body can attain them. The same as it should be with ARs.

Just my 2 cents.

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from 1uglymutha wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

what many people don"t realize is not only is the theatre where the shootings happened a gun free zone, but all of aurora and in fact, all of the greater denver metro area is a gun free zone. yes colorado has the " must issue" concealed permit law. but try to get a ccw permit anywhere in denver. hickenloopey (bloomberg's buddy) and the liberal political crowd in denver has made it all but impossible.

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from SL wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Focusfront said "SL, not to pile on you but that man was not sick. " Where did I make any claims that he WAS sick??? Whether he WAS sick, or just wanted to kill for the hell of it, the guns he was able to get did make it a whole lot easier for him to carry this all out. All the nonsense about him using bombs, knives or something else if he somehow weren't able to get the guns is honestly BS. Compare statistics of gun murders in the US to any other implement and it's not even close. Guns are the MOST effective means of killing someone, thus they are the implement of choice. You guys can dance around the issue all you want. It is TRUE that guns DON'T kill people all by themselves, but they sure as hell make it easier for those people who are actually contemplating murder. Give him an AR with a 100 round magazine and he can have a field day at it!!

Lord Darth Vader, great post!

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from 1uglymutha wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

sl:
your argument seems to be: firearms make it easier for people to kill other people.
if that is true, it is also true that firearms make it easier for people to defend themselves and others against those who harbor bad intentions.
it cannot be argued that people have the right to defend themselves. especially the small and meek.
the person who committed the tragedy in aurora was a coward pure and simple. preying on those who could not defend themselves. the question is; would he have acted differently if he knew that his intended victims were also armed and fully capable of defending themselves?
i think not because of one simple fact: when confronted by armed and trained police officers the coward surrendered meekly.
sir, your argument is invalid . your reasoning is not logical.
you obviously have an agenda as do all the other liberals of your ilk. your attempts to promote your agenda here will not succeed.

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from SL wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Exactly what is my agenda? I tell you what. Why don't you go convince real anti-gunners why YOUR logic is the one that is no doubt correct? Easy to call everyone illogical who doesn't agree with your logic, but just maybe other points of view are just as valid if not more than yours. Do what you wish. If we as gun owners don't start showing society that we do have concerns about what kind of people get their hands on weapons that could wreck a lot of havoc, then don't be surprised if they come after you one day. It is that simple. In the past guns were promoted to society by the industry as recreational items that one could use mainly for hunting or target shooting and possible self defense. Which was all fine and acceptable. How are guns promoted these days?? Tactical this, Tactical that. large capacity magazines, body armor, helmets, the whole 9 yards! Just go to any gun show or shop and you will see what I mean. So don't tell me that guns aren't promoted as tools to potentially kill humans more than they ever were before. Get enough people thinking that killing humans is the primary reason to own these modern type weapons and someone will no doubt carry it out. Just look at this Aurora killer guy. He was a tactical poster boy if you ever wanted to see one. You guys made your beds, so go ahead and sleep in them. Unfortunately, other more reasonable thinking gun owners will have to suffer because of it. And again, please don't call this a tragedy, because it wasn't. It was an atrocity.

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from vehicle wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Well said Mr. Petzal, and there are some great comments here as well as some that are less so.
I was watching a News broadcast this morning while drinking my morning coffee.. There was a comment made by a certain news person that completely floored me. She said,

Certainly if the shooter had been armed with a rifle to shoot moose then even "MORE" death and carnage would have taken place.

I simply do not understand how people can be so misinformed in this day and age....

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Being a father of two boys. The hardest thing I had to do as get between the boys and their toys. I believe this is what is happening here. SO let me tell you my take. I live in East Meadow NY. An upscale crime free neighborhood on Long Island. Also home to Joel Rifkin one of NY's most prolific serial killers. His mother a nice educated stay at home mom. His dad was trustee in our local library. I used to see little Joel ride his bike around the neighborhood. No horns or tail but not good looking enough to date my daughter. Little Joel grew up and decided to hunt and kill 17 street women. And his carrier went unnoticed. His mom even drove around with a dead body in the trunk of her car on a shopping trip. Joe latter mused that it as a good thing she put the groceries on the back seat. He also butchered a poor girl into 11 pieces with nothing more than an Exacto knife. Good knife skills to say the least. NOW FOR MY POINT. You don't need a modern rifle or explosives to cause grieves harm. If you think you can spot a killer you can't. This guy Holmes racked up a death toll of 12 using state of the art weaponry Rifkin would not have not stopped at 17. If not stopped by a routine traffic stop. All he had was a hard heart and his own hands. Only resorting to a hobby knife as a means of disposal. The only difference between the two was Joel was happy keeping his kills private. John wanted the notoriety.

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from labrador12 wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

I think public hanging might be a solution. Speedy trial and a quick dirty death publicly. The certainty of a digusting public humiliation and death might get the attention of some of these pervets. I would rather try my plan than losing any of my guns. The Constitution recognized the right to bear arms, it also called for a speedy trial and the death penalty.

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from coachsjike wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

how is that switzerland citizens are encouraged to own semi automatic weapons including handguns and their crime rate is the lowest in the world? just curious!!! maybe something is to be learned from this. if one or two people were allowed to have the ability to carry, someone could have potentially tried to stop him.

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from spuddog wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Dave, I appreciate your comments and your perspective. Sorry for such a delayed post, but I just returned from a week in the Rocky Mountains with a group of Boy Scouts. We left a few days after the shooting. It was already planned and was helpful for us all, because this happened in my back yard. This was my theater on the news, just a few blocks from my home. I’ve been there many times with my wife and kids. My son just graduated from Gateway High School (where everyone was taken) and my twin daughters will start there next year. I have friends that work and study at the CU medical campus.
My best friend’s daughter was at the theater that night with a group of friends. Some got tickets for theater #9 some for theater #8. One didn’t come home. She was right behind the shooter when she bought her ticket. A daughter of another friend was hit in the face. She’s been on the news. My son wanted to go with some other friends and decided not to. I probably would have said no had he asked. On another day I might have said yes.
Here’s what I’ve learned from this experience.
• I have no respect for the news media. They were like vultures, even the locals. They said one thing but all they cared about was the story.
• It was amazing how many people I have never heard of suddenly appeared and claimed to represent me and my community. It was all about seizing the spot light
• I was impressed with the Aurora Police Department, their response and handling of the situation.
• There is a lot of saber rattling going on. Please stop. It’s not helpful.
• It’s very painful to see where you live in the national spot light and to see something so painful and difficult being used as a national tool to further specific agendas on either side. I wish they’d have more respect for the dead and injured.
• Anger and fear are dangerous things and cloud people’s judgment
• I am just as safe today as I was before this happened. What caused this to happen was there long before it happened and is still there. Nothing has changed.
• This isn’t the fault of laws, government, teachers or schools. Something like this happens because individuals and possibly a family have failed. It is most likely that this young man made some very bad choices in life that opened the door for him to think that this was the right course to take.
• Likewise, the solution to this problem (3 such incidents in Colorado, alone) won’t come from any of these sources. It will come from individuals and families changing the way they think and act. It will change by people putting away the selfish and self-gratifying and putting other’s first. You can’t legislate or market that. It comes from within.

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from blackjac wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

This tragic event is not the first nor will it be the last, regretfully. I find it difficult to add anything more meaningful then many of the above posts.
The majority of these madmen are clever and play our legal system like a piano at our emotional and financial expense.

Hug your kids and loved ones whenever you can.

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from Carl Kneifl wrote 1 year 31 weeks ago

Maybe its time for people to realize they need to take some responsibility for there own saftey and defense,
Police cant be everywhere nor would we want a police state,
If one person in that theater had a ccw and armed would this idiot shot as many as he did. I think not. I have been around guns all my life served in the military and I am fully capable of defending myself and family as I believe others can also do.
The police did a good job but they only were able to pic up the peices after the harm was done,
If you dont like guns thats your right but its my right to defend my family from guys like this and if anyone wants to interfear with that they are as guilty as he is
in the event of something harming them.

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from Robert Fox wrote 1 year 11 weeks ago

I think if follow the drug route you can connect the dots in these shootings via legal or illegal drugs

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from sgtsly wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Anybody calling for the removal of Halo 3 from the shelves? Or any of the other glorify killing and kill 'em all games.

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from Matt McKinney wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Mr. Petzel,

A good friend of mine was an Iraq war vet who murdered his wife and then killed himself. Until he joined the USAF, he had never held a gun, never cleaned a fish, never taken a life or watched even a squirrel die by his own hand. Suddenly he was thrown into a situation where he is expected to kill other men just to survive, with no background in life or death, and it ruined him. His story is not unique. Young men today do not grow up with any appreciation for ANY life, not just human lives. We don't even pay attention when our grandparents die; we spend gobs of money keeping them alive and then Hospice handles the hard part. Youngsters are totally insulated from death. Is it any surprise these maniacs are all 1) the yuppy type, and 2) using guns for the first time as murderers? Gun control is not the answer. Young men need to use guns responsibly, take the lives of animals (and feel bad about it, like we all do at first, and might still do), and maybe that fantasy about murdering people won't be so strong. We as a culture have just removed ourselves too much from the real life and death dynamic of the natural world.

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from Steward wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

There is only One who can fix what is wrong with guy, and the country needs Him more than ever before. I will remember the families in prayer, even while I enjoy my gun hobbies.

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from Gsquare wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

As a seventy something man my observations over the last 40-50 years are that the breakdown of the family, no father at home, maybe a cause for all the kooks. Or maybe it 's the violent movies, games, including paintball. Or maybe it's the lack of respect for laws, even our president skirts the law to suit his purposes. Only thing we can do is to try in our own lifes not to continue these things. Get involved in the political process and vote for people who espouse your beliefs. Slowly it will change for the better, but you have to be proactive.
Small confession: I didn't when I was raising my family and they turned out great, but if I had been more proactive maybe some of the stuff that goes on would have been stopped!

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from EDP1 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

If guns kill people all mine are broke!!!

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from Colorado Samurai wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

the Ten Commandments and prayer in schools might help. We need better tools to deal with mental help as well.

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from wiscoguy wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dave your wrong, this is nothing new. There have always been people willing to to kill others for no good reason. In the 90's it was street gangs in la , Jeffery Dahmer, and Timothy Mcveigh. In the 80's It was poisoned Tylonol,James oliver Huberty (remember him?) , and Patrick Henry Sherrill. in the 70's Ted Bundy. In the 60's Charles Manson. In the 50's Charles Starkweather. In the 40's Howard Unrah. And In the 20's and the 30's Guys like pretty boy Floyd and Murder Inc killed a few people and if I remember correctly the were pretty fond of Thomsons. My point is don't romanticize the past. The violent crime rate is at record lows. There is nothing different about this generation than any other.

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from focusfront wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

A couple of thoughts.

Wiscoguy, things are a lot worse now than they used to be. I was there then, I'm here now.

Second, the irony is that gun laws worked fine in Colorado. In that theater were off-duty cops and servicemen; all unarmed. The theater was a gun free zone. So the gun laws did what gun laws always do; disarm the law abiding citizen and give the murderer a clear field of fire. Of course the reaction will be more gun laws.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

After listening to the whack jobs and to those who are trying to figure out this “OUT RAGE” and spare me the tragedy “BS”! I realize there’s more to it, far more than we realize and I’m going to put it into a nut shell and if you don’t understand it and/or agree with it, then you’re part of the equation why this happens.

Our Nation was founded on rights, privileges but more so ones responsibility to one’s self and to society. Not a rule of laws to do and/or not to do. Yes, speed limits and regulations are a must in many cases, but how we live and act is a responsibility not to be burden down by laws and regulations. There‘s nothing written you must form a line at the register at a store, open a door for someone just to name a few.

Being out in public with a firearm requires responsibility. There is a reason we don’t have shooting on shooting ranges and other events where those with firearms congregate, we have zero tolerance for the misuse of any weapon and the conduct of poor judgment.

I blame society for what has appended and no, I’m not giving the joker a pass period despite what some psycho whack job says it was his childhood or watching a movie. When I was a kid, Combat and other war shows and movies interested me, so did the 3 stooges and the Little Rascals and I don’t have any voices in my head to go out to harm anyone, in fact the opposite is true.

Yesterday I posted on my FB page,

“Alex and I went to the movies today, The Dark Knight Rises. Everyone in the building was having a great time and the place couldn't be any safer. Did I mention there was no "No weapons Allowed" signs anywhere?”

Yes, I was more observant than usual and more on my guard to respond to any threat, it’s just my nature. Just like in School, I was always defending those against bullies; guess you can say nothing has really changes.

My case and point is this,

We as a Nation as inundated ourselves with so many rules and regulations and given all the responsibility over to the Government we lack the ability (except some of us) the ability to be responsible for our own actions, it’s no wonder what happened in Aurora Colorado . We need to eliminate those ridicules laws and regulations like shooting ducks off the back of mules (Florida) and putting salt on a railroad track (bit of hyperbole here) and get back to responsibly of one’s own actions.

Sorry I don’t have time to proof read this, but the intent is very clear.

So excuse me Ladies and Gentlemen while I must start to get around for my Friend Jacks funeral.

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Being a father of two boys. The hardest thing I had to do as get between the boys and their toys. I believe this is what is happening here. SO let me tell you my take. I live in East Meadow NY. An upscale crime free neighborhood on Long Island. Also home to Joel Rifkin one of NY's most prolific serial killers. His mother a nice educated stay at home mom. His dad was trustee in our local library. I used to see little Joel ride his bike around the neighborhood. No horns or tail but not good looking enough to date my daughter. Little Joel grew up and decided to hunt and kill 17 street women. And his carrier went unnoticed. His mom even drove around with a dead body in the trunk of her car on a shopping trip. Joe latter mused that it as a good thing she put the groceries on the back seat. He also butchered a poor girl into 11 pieces with nothing more than an Exacto knife. Good knife skills to say the least. NOW FOR MY POINT. You don't need a modern rifle or explosives to cause grieves harm. If you think you can spot a killer you can't. This guy Holmes racked up a death toll of 12 using state of the art weaponry Rifkin would not have not stopped at 17. If not stopped by a routine traffic stop. All he had was a hard heart and his own hands. Only resorting to a hobby knife as a means of disposal. The only difference between the two was Joel was happy keeping his kills private. John wanted the notoriety.

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

All . . .

I'm a shooter. I'm a defense attorney. In a past life I was a Marine officer.

The older I get, the more I see and experience, the more I am certain that "Good" and "Evil" exist as natural elements around us.

An example of Evil: The sociopath psychotic nutball in Colorado.

An example of Good: People who, when the shooting began, instinctively, unhesitatingly, protected their loved ones, or even complete strangers, with their own lives, their own souls.

Noble sacrifice. Tragic, yet there is a grace and beauty about it. (Much better, of course, that the horrific event never occurred in the first place.)

We can't see "Evil" or "Good," but to paraphrase Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendall Holmes decades ago in what was also, arguably, a "Evil" vs."Good" (or the other way around) case, "I know it when I see it." And, almost always, we do.

I don't know whether science will ever support my theory that "Good" and "Evil" exist as natural elements all around us. What I do know is that, just like helium or hydrogen or oxygen or nitrogen have always existed but were eventually "discovered" by science in the 19th and 20th centuries, and, similarly, as the atom or molecule or neutron or electron or quark weren't even imagined centuries ago but are taken for granted today, I have no doubt that "Good" and "Evil" are equally real elements that exist around us all the time. We merely have to "see" these diametrically opposed elements, to open our minds to the reality of their existence, before we can strengthen one to defeat the other.

But that is a subject for a different day.

My deepest sympathies to the wounded and the dead--and their families and friends--in the Aurora shooting. I'm sorry for your loss and your pain.

Let "Good" prevail among all of us in days and decades ahead.

TWD

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from CL3 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Well stated, DEP. Everyone needs to take a knee on this. People died. A sick person is responsible. Period.

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from phconk wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

This man was crazy, plain and simple. The media thinks that gun control would have prevented this, but they can not wrap their heads around how psychotic some people are. He boobi-trapped his home with bombs. whats weird is he has no background in the military or has any training. On another note, I think that christian bale should go visit the injured children in the hospital, to cheer them up.

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from chuckles wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

In my opinion it comes down to the decay of a sense of community. Fewer people seem to feel they are part of a larger community which sets the standards for acceptable behavior. In the absence of a common moral compass people are left to define standards for themselves.
In a disconnected, highly mobile society this can be difficult. The lack of connection leads to dysfunctional behavior at a lot of levels and finds its most dramatic expression in tragedies like the one in Aurora.
So we do have some idea of how to change the hard hearts. Open yours to the people around you and make sure the kids know where the boundaries are. Even if the kids don't belong to you. There is a reason they say "It takes a village".
Sorry to wax philosophical but raising a child with autism has forced me to examine how people create and maintain the emotional ties that influence behavior.

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from Paul Wilke wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

A lot of people out there are hurting, take a moment and offer a prayer.
Hear's a scenario for you, nut job # 1 opens the exit doors of a theater on the opening day of well attended movie, he picks up four five gallon cans of gasoline, walks to the back of the theater and dumps the cans across that back of the theatre and lights the gas as it flows to the front of the theatre. You can imagine the terror, the pain and fear and the casualties. Nut job #1 has just shown his dominance over a large group of helpless and innocent people and proved to himself that he is somehow great.
Would restricting the sale of gas be the answer, or mandated personal fire extinguisher for everyone.
Let's find the nut jobs, and fix them if possible, focus on that. Find the Hitlers before they cause a world of hurt.

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from MReeder wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Any time there's any incident like the one in Aurora the natural human tendency is to dissect it, attempt to understand it, find a logical explanation for it and apply preventatives. It is almost impossible for people to accept that random acts can be committed by random individuals and that there is no way to see it coming or to head it off. That's why conspiracy theories always take root after the assassination of a public figure. The mind just can’t wrap around the fact that some things are as unpreventable and as arbitrary as a tornado that destroys one house while leaving the one next door standing.
I agree with DP that we have been creating a whole generation of little velociraptors. When you subsidize dependency, lack of responsibility and anti-social behavior and then excuse it when it happens it should come as no surprise that you get more of all those things. However, I doubt if Holmes fits any real sociological profile. He's just one sick SOB. That does not mean "legally insane," which requires that the perp not know right from wrong. He obviously did and does and unless he's got a tumor in his head he's fully qualified to face execution, even though everyone can agree that he's a homicidal maniac.
Unfortunately, when you have more than 300-million people living in this country some of them are going to be homicidal maniacs and nothing you do is going to change that.
The only thing you can do is mitigate the carnage and the only way to do that is to shoot the shooter down the instant he opens fire. That might well have happened had the Aurora theater not forbidden licensed concealed carriers from bringing their sidearms with them.
As for any gun law that might have made a difference, the only one I can think of would be a federal law requiring all active duty military to carry their sidearms with them at all times. It would need to be a federal law to countermand any state restrictions. Localities should also require off-duty police officers to be armed at all times with no private business exceptions allowed. I don't know if there was a cop in that theater or not, but there were at least a couple of soldiers, and they might have been able to do something if they had been armed; just as concealed license holders might have done something had the theater not forbidden their weapons. Amazingly, Holmes paid no more attention to the theater's gun ban than he did to the statutes against mass murder. Who would have thought?
Finally, if there is any politician more reprehensible than NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg I don't know who it is. Antigunners are always going to try to exploit any shooting to push their agenda, but to do it while the bodies are still lying where they fell is beyond repugnant. Voters in NYC should be ashamed of themselves.

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from Ncarl wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Let's get this straight. Guns didn't cause it, movies didn't cause it, video games didn't cause it. Nothing caused it. The fact of the matter is there are just evil people out there who will do evil things. This is a stat I saw on fox news, I don't remember the exact numbers but the Colorado shooting would have had to happen every day for years to amount to the genocides in africa. And I'm far from some humanitarian whistle blower who cares more about other country's then my own. My point is there was no violent movies or video games and very few guns in Africa. Most of the killings were done with machetes because they were cheap, it was just a matter of evil people doing evil things that are, unfortunately, unavoidable.

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from DSMbirddog wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Your last three paragraphs sum up the situation to me.

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from Josh Giannino wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Is it just me or does it seem funny that the media states how these guns were specifically bought from a Gander Mountain and a Bass Pro Shops, and they proceeded to name off exact calibers and brands, and models... were i can almost GUARENTEE that if those guns came from mexico they would have been labeled "hand gun" "assualt rifle" and a "shotgun". just proves that the news media is out against us.

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from WA Mtnhunter wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

A sicko like this clown would have perpetrated a heinous act to call attention to himself one way or another with or without guns. The possibilities are endless. How many real Vietnam combat veterans have you heard doing such? We didn't have the shoot-em-up and violent video games and movies/TV to taint our very psyche like this current generation. Some saw enough death to last a lifetime as have some of our Iraq/Azzcrackistan vets. God help us.

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from Walt Smith wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I look at it this way-- If someone decides they are going to go out and kill as many people as possible there is nothing that will stop them, no laws, computer programs, churchs, schools, friends, family, etc. etc. etc. If they do get stopped it is simple pure luck or their own lack of it. No law that law abiding citizens follow will ever stop a non-law abiding citizen. The only thing that might have stopped this one would have been better security, but then they would have just been the first to die. A maniac is a maniac.

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from Sayfu wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

The only way to cut down on the crazies is to have folks be responsible, and turn them in when they see signs of what they could be up to. Everyone of these guys demonstrates a history of preparing for the event. They create numerous tipoffs dating back weeks, and months prior...but folks are apathetic, and don't inquire about them. Gun control will be pushed hard now, and a vote will be taken in several weeks...the UN gun control vote that includes handguns, rifles and shotguns. Then it will be put before our congress. Obama, and many on the left have been for this measure circumventing the 2nd Amendment.

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from 007 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dave, I was just watching this unfold on the news when I found your post tonight and you are spot on, but I must also agree with a lot of the responses, when we took prayer and the Ten Commandments out of the school system and chased the Father out of our lives, this is the result. I think it's just another piece of the evil that awaits us as the end of days approaches. Like someone said above, God help us.

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from Buckshott00 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I will try to stay on subject, but I didn't hear anyone clamoring for alarms on theater doors. No one is saying how this tragedy could have been avoided if not for a very simple piece of hardware. Instead they want to make it easier for law abiding citizens to be victims; installing the same conditions that let this evil man go unchecked on his spree.

While it is pretty clear that he was a high functioning individual with deep seeded problems, I am inclined to use to word "evil" here.

Everyone wants to say disturbed or sick. However this was evil. People want to believe that all of this can be explained away as mental illness but this act was evil, and evil will always exist in this world. The only defense is being prepared to deal with it.

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from Dr. Killdeer wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Gun free zones are target rich environments. Anyone with half a brain could figure out that an armed audience would have nailed this lunatic to the Bat screen. The bad guy dies, the good, law abiding, free and armed citizens live. We are not free. These are the consequences. Liberal (i.e. communist, statists) want more of the same.

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from firedog11 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Evil exists and will always exist, it is the opposite of good which is something the news media never talks about. I must agree the news media and popular entertainment have gone a long way to glorify the "evil" individual as misgiuded and in need of help. The only help this guy needs is a sort rope and a stout branch.

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from tom warner wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Well SL, your reference to us as "you boys" certainly reveals your feelings of superiority. Surprisingly, there actually are more than a few mature and thoughtful individuals among us "boys". Have you really listened to anything that has been said about these tragedies? Would anything make you stray from your narrow point of view? These awful events, as I said in a previous comment, have been happening all over the world, and have been taking place in societies where firearm availability is far more restricted. The recent huge slaughter in Norway for example. Your point of view is far too simplistic and avoids the real issues, whatever those issues are? Which is the real question, is it not? Also, the millions of gun owners in our society who have NOT murdered anyone is a point that should be made more often. I do not believe that fewer guns will ever solve anything, much as many would have us think. This debate will no doubt go on forever, but logic recently seems to be winning out.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Drunk drivers kill 40 innocent people a day in the US but they are just drunk drivers. Heck

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from Lord_Darth_Vader wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Well I know I'm going to get jumped on for typing this. But before you jump on me let me tell you.

I own 7 Remington 700s, 3 Sakos, a Remington 7400, 2 Browning A Bolts, 2 Noslers, 3 Benellis, 4 Remington 1100s, Remington 11-87, 2 Beretta Xtrema IIs. 1 Tarus in 40 cal & 1 40 cal Smith & Wesson. All my rifles are topped off with either Zeiss, Swarovskis or Kahles scopes. I'm an avid hunter and fisherman. Been hunting and fishing around the world in my 40 short years on this earth.

All that being said I support the 2nd Amendment and our rights to hunt, fish and to protect ourselves and our families. But the bible teaches that TOO MUCH OF ANYTHING is a bad thing and TOO MUCH of anything becomes your blind idol. There is no place in the deer woods for ARs. There is no place in civilized societies for ARs with 100s magazines. I'm sorry, but pistols and shotguns having been defending families fine for hundreds of years. The argument of self defense from the government is MOOT & foolish. If Mr. Obama or any president for that matter wants to come get you, you're going to jail or your going to die. You CAN NOT fight the federal government with an assault weapon. Ask Randy Weaver. Ask the foolish Branch Davidians that tried with full automatic weapons. As the bible teaches too much work, too much food, too much wine, too much play, too much sex too much of anything is not good for man. We've gone overboard with guns.

And even IF assault weapons are allowed maybe a cooling off period, an AR class & psychological test may have prevented this mess, past massacres and future massacres.

For those of you who argue tools. If we allowed certain explosives to be legal & readily available to any Joe Smith off the street, guns would never be used. We'd have people strapping bombs to themselves or tossing sticks of dynamite around. The reason they don't is because any idiot can't order dynamite offline or get it from the local hardware store. Only those with special permits and of the finest sound mind and body can attain them. The same as it should be with ARs.

Just my 2 cents.

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from Douglas wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

CL3, "Taking a knee" is exactly what is needed, but that is politically no longer correct.
We have not seen anything yet.

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from ITHACASXS wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal, I asked a NYS senator (Anthony Nanula) the very same thing when he was knocking doors for support in my neighborhood. The year was 1992 or 3, he was outraged at the availability of semi-automatic guns. I invited him (we had mutual friends) in our home and showed him a Remington model 11. I told him Mr. Browning made this gun and they have been selling them since 1905. I told him of the M-1 carbines that could be had for paper-route money in the 50's-60's. I asked him why (among other things) wasn't there gangs so armed with these inexpensive guns shooting up and terrorizing Buffalo N.Y. back then? He was un-moved. It was then on that I have learned that there is no talking to those who wish to dis-arm us. They (not me or you) have helped create the monsters you've mentioned.I pray God will continue to help my wife and I raise good citizens.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Pretty much said it all Dave.

What has changed is how the media and those in Government want more and more control of our lives. When we were young, we didn't have any problems and there was no laws said we could or could not, we just knew there is and I going to say it, 'a level of responsibility in our own actions'!

It's OK to take the cross and put it into a jar full of urine etc. I believe this Joker Fella wanted to get a rise out of everyone and he went to far and probably now reality is starting to creep in.

As for the death penalty, no....
Life without parole and pictures of the victims and family on the wall with who they were, life ambitions and who misses them now.

Bottom line,

we have to many laws restricting what we can or cannot do. Making sound decisions and who bares the responsibility has all been tossed out the window and now it's someone elses fault. NOPE IT'S NOT! The boy screwed up and the trial shouldn't last over a week, that simple. But the going to parade every swinging idiot they can find and milk it for what's it worth and as long as they can.

The hell with the laws, get Government out of our lives and bring bring back self responsibility!

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from Mark Orlicky wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dave, agree with all you've said.
For the Dianne Feinsteins and Michael Bloombergs of the world, who are using this latest incident as a political opportunity for their private agenda...
This idiot, James Holmes, spent several months buying explosives, chemicals, weapons, and ammo. If he couldn't buy the guns, I'm convinced he would have used explosives to also kill people. Sound familiar? Timothy McVeigh spent a number of months gathering fertilizers, fuel oil, and explosives while he prepared for the awful thing he did in Oklahoma City.
Don't you see the similarity?

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

maybe we shall recreate the world in an image where making money is not the ultimate goal and greed is not hailed as a virtue.. when everything can be quantified into money it looses its inherent value.. also people.. and evil cannot be outlawed.. trying will only create it..
condolances to all involved... from norway, one year after ABB

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from Moose1980 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Thanks DEP for putting into words something I was unable to do. Over the last few days, my non-gun owning friends have been asking me what I think of what happened. I find myself at a loss for words really. Now I have something to point them to.

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from tom warner wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

There is not much to say about all this that has not already been said countless times, none of it very helpful. Our third rate politicians are the least helpful of all. It should be pointed out that mass killings are not just taking place in the U.S. Similar events have gone down in Germany, Norway, Canada, England, Korea, etc., so it seems to be a world-wide phenomenon. Maybe as humanity's numbers increase beyond all reason, insane behavior also increases, just as with overcrowded lemmings, rats, and any other animals. I have always believed human beings were basically insane anyway; otherwise humanity would not now be in the increasingly awful dilemma's that we now find ourselves in, most of which could have been avoided using basic common sense.

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from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

For SL:

Whets 's name managed to kill 164 in Oklahoma with fertilizer and kerosene. Obviously it's much too easy to get these items...without an FBI background check,a letter from your local police chief and a psychiatrist's blessing.

Many of us have forgotten the paramount reason for the 2nd Amendment - to deter or, if needed, overthrow tyranny.

Heaven forbid we should ever have to resort to the latter then 1000 round magazines will still leave us all here seriously outgunned.

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from MReeder wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Someone suggested that Christian Bale should visit shooting victims in the hospital. He has, on his own and with no advance fanfare. The story's up now in the UK's Daily Mail, with a link on the Drudge Report. The visit speaks well of Bale, who bore no more real obligation to do anything than anyone else. All he did was act in a movie that millions wanted to see.
On another front, Fox News is reporting that Holmes sent a box of material to a psychiatric professor that included stick figures of him shooting people in a theater. The material arrived July 12, a week before the shootings, but was never delivered or opened.
That will probably begin a new round of questions and recriminations; but you have to ask yourself if it would have made any difference if anyone has opened it at once. The answer is almost certainly, no. Bad things happen to good people all the time, and that is just a fact of life that is never going to change. All any of us can control is how we act in the here and now.

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from bluegraytx wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

For those who missed the important comment by focusfront, here it is again: "The theater was a gun free zone. So the gun laws did what gun laws always do; disarm the law abiding citizen and give the murderer a clear field of fire". How often have the no-more-gun types argued just the opposite, that is, it was a good thing no one else had a gun in the theater or more people would have been killed. Really?

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from focusfront wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Thank you, bluegraytx.

SL, not to pile on you but that man was not sick. He was surrounded by Ph.ds his whole adult life; wouldn't someone have noticed something? Or is psychology and psychiatry just a joke?

No, he wasn't sick. Would he have done what he did if there had been a policeman standing next to him? So much for the uncontrollable urge to kill theory.

Did he carefully plan his attack, at length and over time, and did his plans coincide with real world conditions? Yes. So much for the idea that he had lost touch with reality.

This guy is evil. Please don't explain this away by saying, "Would a sane person have done what he did?" There are people that wonder why a sane person would go to church, except in a pine box. This guy is evil.

Someone said this earlier; first we locked God in a closet, now we wonder why the devil has so much elbow room.

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from spuddog wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Dave, I appreciate your comments and your perspective. Sorry for such a delayed post, but I just returned from a week in the Rocky Mountains with a group of Boy Scouts. We left a few days after the shooting. It was already planned and was helpful for us all, because this happened in my back yard. This was my theater on the news, just a few blocks from my home. I’ve been there many times with my wife and kids. My son just graduated from Gateway High School (where everyone was taken) and my twin daughters will start there next year. I have friends that work and study at the CU medical campus.
My best friend’s daughter was at the theater that night with a group of friends. Some got tickets for theater #9 some for theater #8. One didn’t come home. She was right behind the shooter when she bought her ticket. A daughter of another friend was hit in the face. She’s been on the news. My son wanted to go with some other friends and decided not to. I probably would have said no had he asked. On another day I might have said yes.
Here’s what I’ve learned from this experience.
• I have no respect for the news media. They were like vultures, even the locals. They said one thing but all they cared about was the story.
• It was amazing how many people I have never heard of suddenly appeared and claimed to represent me and my community. It was all about seizing the spot light
• I was impressed with the Aurora Police Department, their response and handling of the situation.
• There is a lot of saber rattling going on. Please stop. It’s not helpful.
• It’s very painful to see where you live in the national spot light and to see something so painful and difficult being used as a national tool to further specific agendas on either side. I wish they’d have more respect for the dead and injured.
• Anger and fear are dangerous things and cloud people’s judgment
• I am just as safe today as I was before this happened. What caused this to happen was there long before it happened and is still there. Nothing has changed.
• This isn’t the fault of laws, government, teachers or schools. Something like this happens because individuals and possibly a family have failed. It is most likely that this young man made some very bad choices in life that opened the door for him to think that this was the right course to take.
• Likewise, the solution to this problem (3 such incidents in Colorado, alone) won’t come from any of these sources. It will come from individuals and families changing the way they think and act. It will change by people putting away the selfish and self-gratifying and putting other’s first. You can’t legislate or market that. It comes from within.

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from Colorado Samurai wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

the Ten Commandments and prayer in schools might help. We need better tools to deal with mental help as well.

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from jay wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

In a country where we are closing in on 300 million people, there are going to be a few that are not wired quite right and go on a rampage. Like Dave said, it will happen again. Anti-Gun polititions of course are taking advantage of situation and asking for more gun control. If James didn't have guns, he would used some other tool like the bombs he had built. I don't mean to sound trite, but 1,100 people a day loose their lives to cigarettes but we will hear about the 12 unfortunate deaths for the next year.

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from jjas wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I could speculate as to why someone does something like this but it would be just that.....speculation.

My thoughts go to the victims, their families and friends.

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from walt in wi wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Also hard to not notice DEP's favorite mayor in front of any camera nearby demanding that both Obama and Romney "do something".... The stories that are coming out that tell of bravery and self-sacrifice show that heroes are all around us daily when something horrible like this happens.

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from PbHead wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

This attack was the result of a sick and broken heart.

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from Sneaky wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Horrible parenting.

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from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

wiscoguy (Twilight Zone Music Please)

Am I a criminal?

Yes: Shoot innocent defenseless people.

No: Leave gun in car.

www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150920313344371&set=a.1015019086660937...

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from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago
from jakenbake wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I totally agree, Dave. And Chuckles, you said it better than I can. I've thought long and hard about the lack of community. I ache for the sense of community when I was growing up - and I was a child not even two decades ago. Technology has been sold as a great connector, but I believe it has truly been a great disconnector. No longer do we spend time with neighbors or family, but in front of computers and TV. We are under a constant barrage of images whose sole goal is to wear down our moral center in hopes of selling more commodities. We are literally watching civilization crumble.

Our only hope is ourselves - take the time to interact with neighbors, family, people who look like the need the companionship of others. Love one another. If we do not act, we are only contributing to the decay.

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from bonedoc33 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I agree that, unfortunately, this will happen again. I just hope that the next time it does, a person legally carrying a concealed handgun stands up and puts a bullet between the whackjob's eyes and stops the rampage before it gets started. It would be pretty hard to argue in favor of gun control in the wake of that. Then again, the MSM probably wouldn't even pick up the story.

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from Longhunter wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I think that the problem lies with some of our available technology. We really don't communicate with anyone directly. We are taught now to email and text and it has been gradually removing us from the basically talking to each other. The farther that we remove ourselves from actually interacting with each other the closer we get to looking at others as objects rather than human beings. There will always be moments as horrible as this and not all of the gun laws in the world will make a difference.

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from wiscoguy wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

focusfront,

While I know i'm not going to change your mind, I really believe that the reason people perceive things to be worse now is that there is so much media saturation on events like this. Before the mid 90's this would have been on the front page of the major news papers for one day and maybe some updates on page 5 as the trial went on or on the nightly news for a week. Now its on every cable news network 24/7 until they see something shinny and get distracted. I can go on-line and see his match. comm ad. the fact is in 2010 there were about 14700 murders in the US this is the lowest number since 1967.

Clay cooper,

I must inform you that I am not in favor of gun laws as I think you were i getting at with your post. Mr. Petzal implied that that we didn't have these problems when Thompsons were widely available or when military surplus was widely available. As pointed out gangster in the 20's and 30's made use of Thompsons and Howard Unrah killed 12 people with a Luger he brought back from WWII in 1949.

On another note wouldn't telling the theatre owner he had to allow guns on his private property be government intrusion as well?

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from dale freeman wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Mr. Petzal;
You have said what I would love to say, but unable to put it the way you have.
Thank you.
To G square;
Don't beat yourself up.
In 37 yrs. of law enforcement, I did participate on every front
Did I make a difference. I don't think so.
As far as the gun issue, remember, he had hand grenades and bombs.
One day at a time, address it.

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from abiddle013 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

First of all, my heart goes out to those involved. Events like this are becoming all too common. Its sad to see where some people will point their fingers at times like these, none of which should be pointed guns. Like mentioned before guns are machines that do as they are told. A sorry individual misused some tools with a gross negligence for human life. I just hope that he makes it to general population for a little prison justice.

And for the media turning on the weapon dealers and manufacturers... I can only hope that someone slows them down before they manage to strip the responsible gun owners of their most precious liberties. I also hope that I never see the day when those freedoms are taken away.

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from buckhunter wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

It is time to reflect on the lives lost and support the grieving families. We should put all anger aside in an attempt to understand this disturbed young man.

Those who seek reason with revenge or anger will never fully understand the workings of the human mind.

Those who seek reason by attacking the 2A, have jumped on the wrong bus.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Some interesting thoughts. I certainly agree that it is a social illness. And it seems to be spreading. Especially among young people. That's the scary part. Wish the kids today went for the same outlets for unique self-expression that were popular in my youth. I much prefer harmless dirty pot-smoking hippie bums over these modern blood-thirsty kooks. And we thought it was terrible when kids streaked nude through theaters. Now look what they're doing there. What's the next generation going to be in for? Now that's a REAL scary thought!

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from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Certain groups and movements have sought to marginalize God in America. The result is that all Hell is breaking loose.

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from makersman wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

News media is a big part of the the reason these shooting are happening. It makes head lines and the people that carry out these shootings are starving for attention. You rarely hear of any good news and if you do it is a small segment that you for get about in 2 seconds after you go on with your day to day life

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from firedog11 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Tom by the way I agree with what you say except concerning common sense, it is in very short supply.

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I reread DP's post and being an older guy that that has lived in a large multicultural neighborhoods. I would like to comment on then and now. We have always had the death penalty. Albeit it didn't take 12 years from conviction to execution. In fact it was only since the Son of Sam that a felon couldn't profit for his twisted life story. This being said as the survivors have to relive the terror through the appeal system. This waste of bone and blood will get fat, develop hobbies and get proposals of marriage. Perhaps to be pardoned in the distant future. I and my family have always been law and order. But there has always been a organized group where I lived that enforced it's own laws. They also had the death penalty for transgressions. It didn't take years and it could be medieval at times. But it did work very well amongst themselves. I believe that is were the wheels have come off. In instances like this justice should be just and swift.

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from Zermoid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Has anyone else noticed that the violence in America has risen as religion has been been pushed further and further from our schools and society?

The Constitution says "freedom OF Religion" not freedom FROM religion as most seem to think nowadays.

I don't believe this is a coincidence either......

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from Hugh Bryan wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

"What are we going to do? No one has a clue."
I do. "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
Zermoid has pointed out the elephant in the room.
I have raised my children and now help raise my grandchildren on bended knee. I have no fear that they will ever conceive of a crime such as this. None of man's laws, government's edicts,or legislated morality will change a thing. The only thing that can change a hardened heart is Jesus Christ. One at a time. Each of these sick murderers were at one time, savable. In my youth, a child who may not know God at home, had a chance of learning about Him at school. We have incrementally allowed ourselves to be driven to this spiritual desert. My prayers are for the victims and their families, and for revival in this wonderful country.

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from Josh Giannino wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

SL- where do you get this im better then the rest of you mindset? We have our rights to protect ourselves, There is less firearm ownership now, then ever in this country and we have MORE of these mass murders, explain this? and since gun restrictions have loosen crime has been decreasing, Im pretty sure you think twice before raping, murdering or robbing someone if you know there is a good possibility its gonna be your last act on earth, the tighter the gun laws, the more outlaws there will be, Im not giving up ANY of the firearms I own and someday hope to own with out a fight.

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from Camdog wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

A "hard heart". Succinly and accurately stated.

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from Josh Giannino wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

SL- we dont have to changethe other sides mind set, we have to convince those on the fence to see our side.

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from sarg wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I believe he could have done what he did with out fireing a shot. He knew how to make a few pipe bombs with deadly effect. Some one there on the first row should have been carrying and put a stop to it .

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from sarg wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I believe he could have done what he did with out fireing a shot. He knew how to make a few pipe bombs with deadly effect. Some one there on the first row should have been carrying and put a stop to it .

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from T.W. Davidson wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

To SL . . .

Evil in the form and actions of a psychotic nutball killed many and injured more in Aurora, Co. That the nutball used guns to commit his evil is irrelevant, considering that with his background and training (a Ph.D. science graduate student), he could have easily made and used a bomb or IED instead.

And had some people in that theater had guns and known how to use them, maybe even if only one person in that theater had had a gun and used it, some or all of the Aurora tragedy might not have occurred.

Guns are neither "Good" or "Evil."

People are.

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from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Heard one TV talking head say that the body armor worm by this pathetic animal would have negated any effect of return fire from those in the audience.

Typical of almost all in the media when it comes to the topic of firearms, this fool had no idea of the powerful effect of a solid hit on someone wearing body armor with any decent handgun load. Of course a head shot would have been best - then there would be no expensive trial with expensive lawyers, expensive judges, expensive psychiatrists all paid by you and me.

Oh yes, almost forgot the poor souls on the jury who will get something less than minimum wage!

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from micko77 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

There are many opinions as to the whys and hows to have stopped this and other murderers; what sickens me is the glee in the hearts-- you know it's there-- of those who would dance in the blood of the dead if it would advance their political/social agenda. And they aren't commenting here, they're probably at a fundraiser.

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from RockySquirrel wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Jim in Mo; Damn right.
Its not about platitudes and commiserating it is about perspective. And how many are kids are lured into drugs and waste their lives and kill themselves one piece at a time. And liberal hollywood still glamorizes it. A way whole lot more that anyone killed by a crazy with a Gun. More innocents are killed by drug gangsters shootings then nut balls with a gun. At one time more hunters were killed in 1 deer season by other hunters than where killed in this latest in Colorado. So its not about guns, its about politics. I never pointed a firearm at anyone (except while in uniform) and neither did you. Yet we will be the ones looking to pay this price.

This guy didn't have a hard heart. Thats giving him too much credit. He had no heart. He lived in a separate universe where it is all 1 big TV show and video game. He was detached from reality and apparent still is. And frankly so is most of the media and a few politicians.

And speaking of detached from reality; I will say it again, even though no one is listening and I am not sure some of us aren't just a little hard hearted or think they are living in a reality (Zombie killer) TV show; we (gun owners) are still feeding grieving America the same stale platitudes and canned 2nd amendment responses that do ABSOLUTELY nothing to solve the problem. We need less politics and more on fixing the problem. Very few problems can't be solved if you get the bureaucrats and politicians out of the way.

Either we (gun openers of America) get in front of this train and steer it our way with some intelligent compromises that we can ALL live with, and get this issue out of the hands of the professional showboaters on both sides of the issue who are getting rich on the blood money or there will be at lots more of these nut balls and then yours and mine: AR, hunting rifle and handgun this time REALLY WILL BE in jeopardy. It won't be longer waiting period or smaller magazines, they will be coming for your target AR, shotguns, and .22 and any other thing they can glamorize and that really will be the beginning of the end.

Bottom line: LESS RHETORIC AND MORE PROBLEM SOLVING IDEAS FROM PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY SAFELY KEEP AND USE FIREARMS! Generally I say my piece and move on. But you guys have begin to disappoint me. Only 5 minuses last time?

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from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

For RockySquirrel and SL...

Are you serious? Did you actually suggest compromise is possible with the gun hating liberals? The same liberals that have proven time and time again if you give an inch they will take a mile and then come back for the rest.

"Either we (gun openers of America) get in front of this train and steer it our way with some intelligent compromises that we can ALL live with..."

Don't wave any white flags on my account, it will only encourage them.

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from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

BTW 2+2 still equals 4 even though it's an old argument.

If you think we must play their game and keep coming up with new arguments we will eventually and inevitably run out and then they win.

That nonsense about us using "the same old arguments" is the same old argument the liberals always drag out. I have heard them use it over and over again.

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from JohnR wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I think taking the real guns away from our youth and the proper training to compete or hunt with them and replacing them with violent video,games is one way kids have gotten a good dose of un-reality. As for more firearm regulation, well, all the last mass shootings,took place in gun free zones.

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from Safado wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

This is not a gun issue it is a cultural issue. For all of the good people that our culture creates (the majority) we produce some real wack jobs (the minority). If all of us were GOOD there would be no need for prisons. This EVIL person with a hard heart fooled a lot of people for a long time. He will get the same treatment as the D.C. sniper. He will receive a fair trial where all of the Is are dotted and the Ts are crossed. He will be found guilty and sentenced to death. His appeals will be exhausted rapidly because the Is were dotted and the Ts crossed and he will be summarily executed!

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from vehicle wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Well said Mr. Petzal, and there are some great comments here as well as some that are less so.
I was watching a News broadcast this morning while drinking my morning coffee.. There was a comment made by a certain news person that completely floored me. She said,

Certainly if the shooter had been armed with a rifle to shoot moose then even "MORE" death and carnage would have taken place.

I simply do not understand how people can be so misinformed in this day and age....

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from Safado wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I (and many others) have been struggling with why an intelligent, seemingly normal guy from a normal family would do such a thing. I can buy into Dave Petzal's idea that, "It is a hard heart that kills". But how did he get so hardened? He seems to have lived a relatively priviledged life. One of the surviving victims was quoted from his hospital bed saying, "What was so wrong in his life that he did this?" I don't have any answers except to feel for the families of the victims and survivors.

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from Mark-1 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

My half-ass speculations:

-Recall seeing this Colorado scenario in Europe with the 60's, 70’s and 80's terrorist attacks by various radical organizations. These attacks featured small groups of people unloading auto and/or semi auto firearms in public places. The fire power was telling. 200 to 400 rounds were expended within a minute or two. But these were terrorist attacks. I see no difference between Colorado latest shooting and Columbine.

-The call for additional gun control is a symmetrical response to an asymmetrical situation. These guys are so smart and diabolical I believe the real limiting factor is their financial resources.

-What's emerging is a weird group of domestic terrorists flying under the radar. These guys want to kill everyone, including their friends. The two Columbine Shooters became shooters when their grand scheme setting off two bombs triggers in the cafeteria & kitchen failed. That failure saved hundreds of lives, but implemented a 50-minutes shooting rampage.

-Tough to stop. What creeps me out is these terrorist acts are financed and planned over long periods. These guys save money [Columbine attack was financed by a part-time, after school pizza job]. They come from good homes and families. They're smart. They fool everyone....friends, parents, teachers, professors, medical professionals, LEO's and judges.

It takes a special person to pull this off.

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from 1uglymutha wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

the loonies that destroyed the federal building in oklahoma city did not use guns. those who are crazy enough to justify the destruction of fellow human beings will find a way to do so with or without guns. one good man with a concealed carry permit might have prevented much of the carnage that was wrought at the theater in aurora. no rational person wants to see our society return to the days of the "wild west " but now, as in any other era, people must do what is necessary to protect themselves and others. gun control is not the answer. gun control is the problem. the second amendment is as valid today as the day it was written.

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from Mark-1 wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Additional:

Curious thing, when his mom was approached by police (she's a forensic psych) and asked if they had right person she immediately said "yep- that's him".
You're kid butchers 12 people and you say "yep that's him"! Little Weird.

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from deadeyedick wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Well said everyone. Until some genius comes up with a machine that can scan our thoughts or see into the future these things will happen. As the BoyScouts motto says " be prepared "
Hello Dale. Don't ever sell yourself short for the job you did for all those years. You should be proud of yourself I for one salute you sir.

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from kansasjeff wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

as the old saying goes the only thing worse than being completly alone in the world is to be completly alone surounded by others. these killing happen because people have become disconnected from any sence of community or belonging. And with that they lose their sence of empathy for fellow human beings. it isn't guns that are the problem(the Bath school disaster, one of the worst mass killings in history, was carred out with explosives)

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from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I feel for the living. Even though Colorado has the death penalty. This tragedy will be played out over years. The some of people affected may not live long enough to have closure. Now there is a made for TV movie in the works. The LEO's on the scene should be commended for their professionalism and restraint.

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from Safado wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I can tell from a number of post that we all seem to be struggling with this senseless act. TWD's post strikes me as right on point. I really don't think this is a gun issue guns were just the weapon that he chose to use because he clearly could have used explosives. There is a striking similarity to the crazed killer in Sweden last year that set bombs in downtown Stokholm (I beieve) then went to an island where there was a camp and shot the children. I think what is so frustrating is that there is no easy answer to this problem.

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from Josh Giannino wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

In a chaotic event such as this, I doubt people could have the best judgement of what happened, In the mass confusion it could have looked like tear gas came from the opposite corner

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from tom warner wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dave and for those of you who are interested, Ron Paul's response to this is very good and worth reading. He's always a voice of sanity. Check it out on his site.

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from woodsdog wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

I agree with DEP completely. The whole story is tragic. Can you imagine how his parents must feel?? But, to quickly turn to gun control as the answer is another fear based liberal response not a freedom based one. This guy could have easily drove into the theater with a pickup truck, or started clubbing people with a hammer. Should we "control vehicles and hammers"? The state run media capitalizes on emotion and irrationality instead of facts and objectivity. A good start to this countries woes is to start getting real with everything in life. Life isn't cream puffs and cookies on bright sunny days everyday with solutions to every problem. More people need to find God and damn it, more law abiding good people need to start carrying firearms! I would never want to be in a situation like that with my family; but I would hope I had my sidearm to defend myself. This is certainly a terribly horrible and tragic situation... but its not the guns fault! We need to get back to the basics folks!

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Nothing can be said, or any point made, to explain the terrible act of killing innocent people particularly in horrific fashion as this sick man has done in CO. This Sh#t puts me in a funk, but also reminds me to renew my carry permit ASAP. If it be God's will for me to by chance save a family from losing their children, or a young person's life, let it be done.

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from woodsdog wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Spot On Jim in Mo!!!

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from rustvyper wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Wow, really Mr. Petzal? I expected better of you.
Google "List of massacres in the United States" & educate yourself a little. THEN come back & tell me stories about the good-old days.

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from 1uglymutha wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

what many people don"t realize is not only is the theatre where the shootings happened a gun free zone, but all of aurora and in fact, all of the greater denver metro area is a gun free zone. yes colorado has the " must issue" concealed permit law. but try to get a ccw permit anywhere in denver. hickenloopey (bloomberg's buddy) and the liberal political crowd in denver has made it all but impossible.

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from 1uglymutha wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

sl:
your argument seems to be: firearms make it easier for people to kill other people.
if that is true, it is also true that firearms make it easier for people to defend themselves and others against those who harbor bad intentions.
it cannot be argued that people have the right to defend themselves. especially the small and meek.
the person who committed the tragedy in aurora was a coward pure and simple. preying on those who could not defend themselves. the question is; would he have acted differently if he knew that his intended victims were also armed and fully capable of defending themselves?
i think not because of one simple fact: when confronted by armed and trained police officers the coward surrendered meekly.
sir, your argument is invalid . your reasoning is not logical.
you obviously have an agenda as do all the other liberals of your ilk. your attempts to promote your agenda here will not succeed.

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from SL wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Exactly what is my agenda? I tell you what. Why don't you go convince real anti-gunners why YOUR logic is the one that is no doubt correct? Easy to call everyone illogical who doesn't agree with your logic, but just maybe other points of view are just as valid if not more than yours. Do what you wish. If we as gun owners don't start showing society that we do have concerns about what kind of people get their hands on weapons that could wreck a lot of havoc, then don't be surprised if they come after you one day. It is that simple. In the past guns were promoted to society by the industry as recreational items that one could use mainly for hunting or target shooting and possible self defense. Which was all fine and acceptable. How are guns promoted these days?? Tactical this, Tactical that. large capacity magazines, body armor, helmets, the whole 9 yards! Just go to any gun show or shop and you will see what I mean. So don't tell me that guns aren't promoted as tools to potentially kill humans more than they ever were before. Get enough people thinking that killing humans is the primary reason to own these modern type weapons and someone will no doubt carry it out. Just look at this Aurora killer guy. He was a tactical poster boy if you ever wanted to see one. You guys made your beds, so go ahead and sleep in them. Unfortunately, other more reasonable thinking gun owners will have to suffer because of it. And again, please don't call this a tragedy, because it wasn't. It was an atrocity.

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from labrador12 wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

I think public hanging might be a solution. Speedy trial and a quick dirty death publicly. The certainty of a digusting public humiliation and death might get the attention of some of these pervets. I would rather try my plan than losing any of my guns. The Constitution recognized the right to bear arms, it also called for a speedy trial and the death penalty.

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from coachsjike wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

how is that switzerland citizens are encouraged to own semi automatic weapons including handguns and their crime rate is the lowest in the world? just curious!!! maybe something is to be learned from this. if one or two people were allowed to have the ability to carry, someone could have potentially tried to stop him.

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from blackjac wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

This tragic event is not the first nor will it be the last, regretfully. I find it difficult to add anything more meaningful then many of the above posts.
The majority of these madmen are clever and play our legal system like a piano at our emotional and financial expense.

Hug your kids and loved ones whenever you can.

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from Carl Kneifl wrote 1 year 31 weeks ago

Maybe its time for people to realize they need to take some responsibility for there own saftey and defense,
Police cant be everywhere nor would we want a police state,
If one person in that theater had a ccw and armed would this idiot shot as many as he did. I think not. I have been around guns all my life served in the military and I am fully capable of defending myself and family as I believe others can also do.
The police did a good job but they only were able to pic up the peices after the harm was done,
If you dont like guns thats your right but its my right to defend my family from guys like this and if anyone wants to interfear with that they are as guilty as he is
in the event of something harming them.

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from Robert Fox wrote 1 year 11 weeks ago

I think if follow the drug route you can connect the dots in these shootings via legal or illegal drugs

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from kudukid wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

From Wiscogy:
"On another note wouldn't telling the theatre owner he had to allow guns on his private property be government intrusion as well?"
Not really, this theater is open to the general public much like the sidewalks outside; it wasn't the owner's home.

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from SL wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Rocky said:
"And speaking of detached from reality; I will say it again, even though no one is listening and I am not sure some of us aren't just a little hard hearted or think they are living in a reality (Zombie killer) TV show; we (gun owners) are still feeding grieving America the same stale platitudes and canned 2nd amendment responses that do ABSOLUTELY nothing to solve the problem. We need less politics and more on fixing the problem. Very few problems can't be solved if you get the bureaucrats and politicians out of the way.
Either we (gun openers of America) get in front of this train and steer it our way with some intelligent compromises that we can ALL live with, and get this issue out of the hands of the professional showboaters on both sides of the issue who are getting rich on the blood money or there will be at lots more of these nut balls and then yours and mine: AR, hunting rifle and handgun this time REALLY WILL BE in jeopardy. It won't be longer waiting period or smaller magazines, they will be coming for your target AR, shotguns, and .22 and any other thing they can glamorize and that really will be the beginning of the end.
Bottom line: LESS RHETORIC AND MORE PROBLEM SOLVING IDEAS FROM PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY SAFELY KEEP AND USE FIREARMS! Generally I say my piece and move on. But you guys have begin to disappoint me. Only 5 minuses last time?"

Does my soul a lot of good to read something like this from a fellow gun owner. At least some of us can understand that the same old song and dance by gun owners is getting very OLD. If we don't initiate some safeguards ourselves, others will and I can guarantee that most here will not like what they will get.

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from SL wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

"Whets 's name managed to kill 164 in Oklahoma with fertilizer and kerosene. Obviously it's much too easy to get these items...without an FBI background check,a letter from your local police chief and a psychiatrist's blessing."

How many people do homemade bombs kill per year in the US compared to firearms?? No contest there. Murder happened LONG before firearms were ever invented, BUT anyone who thinks that a gun doesn't make it easier for someone to actually go thru with murder is kidding themselves. It's a whole lot messier (and takes way more intestinal fortitude) to strangle, knife, or club someone to death than it is standing a ways away and firing with a gun. A gun is the least hands on, yet the most effective way to kill someone, thus it's the method of choice. You boys simply can't accept the realities that there are correlations between the easy accessibility of firearms in this country with the high gun murder rate. No, banning guns won't stop murder, but having so MANY guns around DOES help keep the murder rate good and high.

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from SL wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

"Have you really listened to anything that has been said about these tragedies?"

And why should this be called a tragedy?? You seem to be using the same terminology as the liberal media. These acts are atrocities and NOT tragedies.

Obviously there are many reasons that would drive a person to commit such an act, and there will be plenty of armchair psychologists coming up with various reasons. My only point here is that guns DO make it easier for people to carry out such acts.. I am not calling for the ban of guns, since I own them also. I am only stating that guns can and DO make it easier to commit such acts in today's world. Take it or leave it fellas. I won't change anyone's mind here, nor will you change mine.

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from SL wrote 1 year 37 weeks ago

Focusfront said "SL, not to pile on you but that man was not sick. " Where did I make any claims that he WAS sick??? Whether he WAS sick, or just wanted to kill for the hell of it, the guns he was able to get did make it a whole lot easier for him to carry this all out. All the nonsense about him using bombs, knives or something else if he somehow weren't able to get the guns is honestly BS. Compare statistics of gun murders in the US to any other implement and it's not even close. Guns are the MOST effective means of killing someone, thus they are the implement of choice. You guys can dance around the issue all you want. It is TRUE that guns DON'T kill people all by themselves, but they sure as hell make it easier for those people who are actually contemplating murder. Give him an AR with a 100 round magazine and he can have a field day at it!!

Lord Darth Vader, great post!

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dr Kildare: I'm sure if everyone in the audience had been armed the death toll would have been a lot worse. A building full of panicking people all fully armed? That scares the crap out of me just thinking about it.

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from SL wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

"SL- where do you get this im better then the rest of you mindset? "

So where did I say I was better than you? I am only pointing out some realities that many gun owners can't seem to understand. Think what you wish. I obviously can't change your mind or anyone else's. Just keep in mind that you and those who think like you won't change the other sides mindset either. There are two sides to every story and issue and both sides will have its truths AND lies.

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from SL wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Say what you want, but weapons have become more potent for those who do want to do evil things with them, and in this country pretty much anyone can get them. You rarely hear about mass murders of this nature committed with knives, clubs, ropes, etc. so it is a bit silly to think that guns don't somehow make such murders easier. Exactly why a civilian would need the type of magazine this guy had attached to his rifle is beyond me?? I have never even seen military or law enforcement with such a device, so why should a civilian be able to have it so readily??

You can look at this from any angle you want, but this guy looked like a poster boy for all the tactical fanatics out there. As we all know, there are many out there these days. From jackboots to helmet, to bullet proof vests he was dressed in high style for anyone who gets a kick out of this type of stuff. And then of course he had the weaponry to top it all off!

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from RockySquirrel wrote 1 year 38 weeks ago

Dave: Yep.

But I can't help thinking that there has to be a simple, way to cut down on the likelihood of crazy people getting guns. Longer waiting period? Signed affidavit from 2 people that you aren't nuts. I know its not fool proof and there are people who think I am a tad goofy, but I just looking for a way to weed out some of the serious looney tunes, without impacting the rest of us.

There are very few of life's problems that can't be solved, if you put some thought to this. Anyone got any suggestions?

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