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Doves and Waterfowl: What Semiautos Have Over Double-Barrels
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September 11, 2012
Doves and Waterfowl: What Semiautos Have Over Double-Barrels
By Phil Bourjaily
My friend Mike Jordan, a recent inductee to the ATA Trapshooting Hall of Fame and a fine field shot, used to scoff at the “limit inside a box” dove hunting mentality of shooters who make a big deal out of killing a limit with under 25 shells. “Shooting your gun is fun,” he would say. “Who wants to brag about how much fun they didn’t have?”
Of course, Mike worked for Winchester ammunition so it was in his interest for people to shoot a lot of shells at doves.
By Mike’s definition, I had a ton of fun on the opening day of Iowa’s second-ever dove season, which featured lots of doves in a stiff wind and there were a few pigeons involved, too. I settled down after a while and killed my limit, but I was definitely well “outside a box.”
Perhaps even outside more than one box. I’m not telling. I could have had even more of Mike Jordan’s brand of fun -- up to 50 percent more -- if I had brought a three-shot semiauto instead of my two-shot Browning Cynergy. I like the Cynergy a lot and enjoy shooting it at targets and the occasional pheasant. However as far as I can tell, the only advantages of an O/U in the dove field are, they save you money by eliminating futile third shots, and you don’t have to look around for your empty hulls when you’re done as you do with a semiauto.
The disadvantage is, the gun is often broken open just when you need it to be loaded, like those times when you have missed a bird and a second one comes floating in over your head as you scrabble in your pocket for more shells. I like being able to “top up” a semiauto without taking it out of battery. I like semiautos for waterfowl for the same reason. The few times I have hunted waterfowl with an O/U, I have not only not enjoyed it, but I have wondered why anyone takes an O/U waterfowling.
Obviously, this is not a life or death problem for us -- it is for the doves, but not for us. If shooting an O/U or double gun in the dove field makes you happy, do it. I do sometimes myself, as I did Saturday, but I usually bring a semiauto when I go.
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Comments (32)
Shoot what ever you shoot best, after that rest is just friendly fireside arguments.
I fell in love with a Remington 1100 after having affairs with every make and model of shotgun I could get my hands on. She is now my one and only. Really it has more to do with ease of operation and the fact that it shoots where I look. I wish they all did that, I would shoot a Ruger Red Label.
You seem to want something utilitarian yet graceful. I have a secret gun for you. It's called a WingMaster.
I took a high grade Beretta to Alaska only to watch the bush pilot toss..yes, Toss!!! it into the back of plane. I also spent an afternoon shedding tears in a very wet freezing rain hunting geese with same high grade Beretta as it got soaked.
Shotgun performed flawlessly, but I haven't been the same since. Indeed, the memory rattles me as I write.
Another problem that is seriously overlooked especially in the Southwest with Semi's, is that casing in a bush with a BUZZ TAIL!
Dad shot one dove landing in a bush and when he looked in it, right next to the dove was a set of rattles. Shot it and started to reach in the bush again, another set of rattles. The bird remained in the bush!
I like semis and pumps in the dove field too, but, when I want a limit inside a box, I always use my Browning Citori.
I hunt waterfowl in a remote swamp with a brutal early morning paddle with canoes and kayaks to get to the spots. For this, I use an inexpensive O/U that won't make me cry if it gets dropped, and possibly lost, in the blackwater spooge.
That said, I sure do miss the A5 on those trips.
TAKE BOTH GUNS IF IT IS NOT TOO MUCH OF A PROBLEM. I RECENTLY BOUGHT A VERY NICE O/U AND ONE OF THE BEST PLACES TO GET USED TO SHOOTING IT IS IN THE DOVE FIELD SO i TAKE IT AND MY GOOD OL' 1100
Tell you why I took my Beretta O/U Ruffed Grouse hunting yesterday. Beretta Outdoors, the cable tv show had a segment on Southern quail hunting on a top grade quail plantation. A guest was the Beretta Sales Mgr. and the guns they shot on the hunt he broke out, and they showed a segment of the quality workmanship in making MY Beretta
686 S Silver Pigion gave me goose bumps. It became my featured gun yesterday grouse hunting. They shot 28 ga.'s, and mine is a 20 ga. The horse and buggy ride out to the hunting grounds. Never realized how first class I was going.
It really depends on the mood I am in when I decide which shotgun to use, my Red Label or the Wingmaster. If the weather is going to be crappy I always take the Wingmaster.
Citori 1100,Citori 1100,Citori 1100 this is the ever present thought on my mind before the dove opener in Tennessee.Both have won the coin toss is recent years,but I find I take the Browning Citori more and more as I like the barrel select option sometimes birds are close sometime far with a flick of the thumb I can change barrels and shoot any one of the two chokes I choose.However I agree waterfowl require an auto-loader anyone who uses an O/U is a masochist and should not be trusted
Thats why you need a side by side, much faster to reload!
Wild birds=semi auto; much faster to reload and the third shot is handy at times. and a sxs is no faster to reload than an o/u, unless you have a pair of Purdeys and a loader.
What this country needs is a good 20 ga. Browning Maxus.
Guys, can anyone tell me what a good price for a Beretta 12 ga. EELL in a hard case with choke tubes would be? The gun looks like new, action tight as a drum, wood is very nice marble cake French walnut. There is very good engraving. Alas this is the first EELL I have examined. The guy wants $3495 good price, fair price or too much? I love the gun it fits me like a glove.
BTW IMO o/u shotguns are best for upland hunting. I have a couple just for dove,quail etc. One is a Browning Grade III Citori 12 ga. the other a Beretta Silver pigeon 28. My waterfowl and turkey gun is a Benelli SBE which I bought after nearly losing the Citori in waist deep water. Mark 1 I felt your pain that day.
Del, Don't forget metal on EELL's is bare metal & not coated.
Sayfu,good to see you enjoyed Beretta tv quail hunting, but for those of us who were privileged to grow up hunting on real working farm plantations in the deep south know that in the days Browning and Remington ruled. Walking on a farm in the deep south without a Browning superposed, A5 sweet 16 or a Remington auto was a curse. Not too much respect for the Italian stuff. If that footage of the beretta factory gave you chills maybe you should try obtaining service or better yet procuring parts for repairs you could have nightmares.
Sorry, Phil.....it just wouldn't be duck hunting if I wasn't carrying the old A.H. Fox or Winchester 21. And yes, I shoot those expensive non-toxic shells that won't harm old guns and thus don't take those wild, hope-to-hell-I-hit-you shots. The fun is calling them in to layup shot distance. Yesterday, I shot a near limit (12) of doves with a 138 year old Reilly hammer gun. The experience was wonderful. Truly, I wish that old gun could talk and tell me where it's been and the birds it's shot. You just don't get that kind of experience with a synthetic stocked semiauto wondergun that shoots everything from light skeet loads to 155mm howitzers. One can only wonder what the sales of semiautos would be if the Duck Men family were shooting O/U's or SxS's in their videos. Come to the Whittington Center in New Mexico next summer and sample shooting the fine old doubles with a bunch of us loonies.
Just about any place I have ever hunted uplands I haven't been required to plug my gun to three shots max. What's up with that? I will load my A-5 up with five shots simply so I don't have to fumble around loading it as often. I rarely shoot more than two rounds at a pheasant. Occasionally it will take three rounds to get a bird. Impossible to get more than two shots shooting at mountain grouse. As to the weight, I swing a heavier gun better anyway and five rounds in my gun isn't any heavier than five rounds in my pocket.
Admittedly, I have never hunted doves so maybe they are a three shot max item?
I've shot a lot of doves and a fair number of ducks and quail as well, and a smaller number of pheasant - and the answer is...it depends. It depends on what gun you feel like shooting that day. It depends on how many times you want or expect to shoot that day. It depends on what kind of conditions you expect to be shooting in that day. Personally, if I'm going to shoot a lot standing in one place in any kind of weather, I prefer the semi to save my shoulder, have that 3rd shot for the 3rd bird ;=), and I think they are easier to reload while keeping your eyes on the sky. But if I'm going to take a day-long walk and shoot rising quail (with light loads, of course), well, that's why I bought my Silver Pigeon.
They are a migratory bird, and like ducks and geese, require a HIP number and a 3-shot limit for the shotgun.
Del,
If it is a 687EELL with sideplates, I would think that it is a fair price. There is a ton of difference between a 686, which is an entry level gun, and a really nice dressed up 687 EELL. The price you quoted was about what that gun with tubes and case was bringing about 10-15 years ago. I thought it was a great gun, but it just didn't suit me as I never shot one well.
I feel it would be a great gun for sporting clays or light field duty.
Ah, thanks Amflyer. Forgot about that. I know the feds on both sides of the border have been relaxing the 3-shot plug rule for some special goose hunting, particularly the spring hunts for snows.
While I have never raced a semi-auto, you would be surprised how fast I can feed my
Fox side-by-side with ejectors!
BANG-BANG; FOOMMmm;
CLUNK-CLUNK(that’s two shells at a time); BANG-BANG
Del,
New 12ga 687EELL at Beikirch's in Rochester, NY for $6250.
Me? I'm still trying to pay my school taxes.
the only semi I will own is in rifle or pistol calibre. I learned many moons ago on a single shot western field, then graduated to an 870 wingmaster pump in 16 guage. decided to upgrade to 12 so went with an ithica. worst mistake I ever made. could usually go out with a box of shells and come back out with my limit but with the semi I would go out with 4 boxes and might have two!!! the problem is that I didn't have time to think--DO I NEED THIS SHOT??
with the pump I had that option instead of popping off three with two of them being wasted. same with squirrel and duck hunting. believe me I came home with some torn up game!! lol to each his own though
Guys thanks for the info I did not realize there was a 687 and a 686 EELL. The gun I looked at is a beauty and I'm currently working on a deal to acquire said item.
I went on a dove shoot last weekend and took my new-to-me Remington 870 20 gauge pump. Heheheheh, I forgot the thing was a pump, and therefore, kept forgetting to pump it! It became a single shot for me that day! I only got one dove, which is resting in me freezer waiting on a few more for wife to roast...
Now, for quail and rabbits, give me my sweet little Fox 16 gauge side by side, improved cylinder/modified. Wow, I love that little shotgun!
But now I am wanting a semi-auto in probably 20 gauge. I love Brownings - something to do with the Sweet 16 I inherited from my Dad - and would really like to get a newer Auto5 in 20 gauge. What's wrong with me? For some reason, I have never owned a 12 gauge!! Nothing against them, just me I guess...
I love both of them, as I grew up I think the pump is a bit of a waste of time, still looks great in movies but pants in real hunting. For me I have to go with the safety aspect of the O/U, when the gun is broken open its safe and closed is live, with semi, its always ready to go.
For Pigeons, as in the wild Wood pigeons of UK, both are great, for Driven Pheasant shooting etc. has to be O/U. Proper water-fowling semiauto! Plus I like that extra weight of the o/u too, just helps me with gun mount!
Bryan Nelson
www.Sportingagent.com
Guys thanks for the info I did not realize there was a 687 and a 686 EELL. The gun I looked at is a beauty and I'm currently working on a deal to acquire said item.
www.chinaicemaker.com
Well I went back and checked the gun is a 687 EELL. The wood is fancy Turkish walnut. Looks very much like French.
Del,
Got your email on the Sharps. I'll have to pass on that one.
Post a Comment
Shoot what ever you shoot best, after that rest is just friendly fireside arguments.
You seem to want something utilitarian yet graceful. I have a secret gun for you. It's called a WingMaster.
I took a high grade Beretta to Alaska only to watch the bush pilot toss..yes, Toss!!! it into the back of plane. I also spent an afternoon shedding tears in a very wet freezing rain hunting geese with same high grade Beretta as it got soaked.
Shotgun performed flawlessly, but I haven't been the same since. Indeed, the memory rattles me as I write.
Another problem that is seriously overlooked especially in the Southwest with Semi's, is that casing in a bush with a BUZZ TAIL!
Dad shot one dove landing in a bush and when he looked in it, right next to the dove was a set of rattles. Shot it and started to reach in the bush again, another set of rattles. The bird remained in the bush!
I like semis and pumps in the dove field too, but, when I want a limit inside a box, I always use my Browning Citori.
TAKE BOTH GUNS IF IT IS NOT TOO MUCH OF A PROBLEM. I RECENTLY BOUGHT A VERY NICE O/U AND ONE OF THE BEST PLACES TO GET USED TO SHOOTING IT IS IN THE DOVE FIELD SO i TAKE IT AND MY GOOD OL' 1100
I fell in love with a Remington 1100 after having affairs with every make and model of shotgun I could get my hands on. She is now my one and only. Really it has more to do with ease of operation and the fact that it shoots where I look. I wish they all did that, I would shoot a Ruger Red Label.
Tell you why I took my Beretta O/U Ruffed Grouse hunting yesterday. Beretta Outdoors, the cable tv show had a segment on Southern quail hunting on a top grade quail plantation. A guest was the Beretta Sales Mgr. and the guns they shot on the hunt he broke out, and they showed a segment of the quality workmanship in making MY Beretta
686 S Silver Pigion gave me goose bumps. It became my featured gun yesterday grouse hunting. They shot 28 ga.'s, and mine is a 20 ga. The horse and buggy ride out to the hunting grounds. Never realized how first class I was going.
Citori 1100,Citori 1100,Citori 1100 this is the ever present thought on my mind before the dove opener in Tennessee.Both have won the coin toss is recent years,but I find I take the Browning Citori more and more as I like the barrel select option sometimes birds are close sometime far with a flick of the thumb I can change barrels and shoot any one of the two chokes I choose.However I agree waterfowl require an auto-loader anyone who uses an O/U is a masochist and should not be trusted
Thats why you need a side by side, much faster to reload!
Wild birds=semi auto; much faster to reload and the third shot is handy at times. and a sxs is no faster to reload than an o/u, unless you have a pair of Purdeys and a loader.
What this country needs is a good 20 ga. Browning Maxus.
Sorry, Phil.....it just wouldn't be duck hunting if I wasn't carrying the old A.H. Fox or Winchester 21. And yes, I shoot those expensive non-toxic shells that won't harm old guns and thus don't take those wild, hope-to-hell-I-hit-you shots. The fun is calling them in to layup shot distance. Yesterday, I shot a near limit (12) of doves with a 138 year old Reilly hammer gun. The experience was wonderful. Truly, I wish that old gun could talk and tell me where it's been and the birds it's shot. You just don't get that kind of experience with a synthetic stocked semiauto wondergun that shoots everything from light skeet loads to 155mm howitzers. One can only wonder what the sales of semiautos would be if the Duck Men family were shooting O/U's or SxS's in their videos. Come to the Whittington Center in New Mexico next summer and sample shooting the fine old doubles with a bunch of us loonies.
I went on a dove shoot last weekend and took my new-to-me Remington 870 20 gauge pump. Heheheheh, I forgot the thing was a pump, and therefore, kept forgetting to pump it! It became a single shot for me that day! I only got one dove, which is resting in me freezer waiting on a few more for wife to roast...
Now, for quail and rabbits, give me my sweet little Fox 16 gauge side by side, improved cylinder/modified. Wow, I love that little shotgun!
But now I am wanting a semi-auto in probably 20 gauge. I love Brownings - something to do with the Sweet 16 I inherited from my Dad - and would really like to get a newer Auto5 in 20 gauge. What's wrong with me? For some reason, I have never owned a 12 gauge!! Nothing against them, just me I guess...
I hunt waterfowl in a remote swamp with a brutal early morning paddle with canoes and kayaks to get to the spots. For this, I use an inexpensive O/U that won't make me cry if it gets dropped, and possibly lost, in the blackwater spooge.
That said, I sure do miss the A5 on those trips.
It really depends on the mood I am in when I decide which shotgun to use, my Red Label or the Wingmaster. If the weather is going to be crappy I always take the Wingmaster.
Guys, can anyone tell me what a good price for a Beretta 12 ga. EELL in a hard case with choke tubes would be? The gun looks like new, action tight as a drum, wood is very nice marble cake French walnut. There is very good engraving. Alas this is the first EELL I have examined. The guy wants $3495 good price, fair price or too much? I love the gun it fits me like a glove.
BTW IMO o/u shotguns are best for upland hunting. I have a couple just for dove,quail etc. One is a Browning Grade III Citori 12 ga. the other a Beretta Silver pigeon 28. My waterfowl and turkey gun is a Benelli SBE which I bought after nearly losing the Citori in waist deep water. Mark 1 I felt your pain that day.
Del, Don't forget metal on EELL's is bare metal & not coated.
Sayfu,good to see you enjoyed Beretta tv quail hunting, but for those of us who were privileged to grow up hunting on real working farm plantations in the deep south know that in the days Browning and Remington ruled. Walking on a farm in the deep south without a Browning superposed, A5 sweet 16 or a Remington auto was a curse. Not too much respect for the Italian stuff. If that footage of the beretta factory gave you chills maybe you should try obtaining service or better yet procuring parts for repairs you could have nightmares.
I've shot a lot of doves and a fair number of ducks and quail as well, and a smaller number of pheasant - and the answer is...it depends. It depends on what gun you feel like shooting that day. It depends on how many times you want or expect to shoot that day. It depends on what kind of conditions you expect to be shooting in that day. Personally, if I'm going to shoot a lot standing in one place in any kind of weather, I prefer the semi to save my shoulder, have that 3rd shot for the 3rd bird ;=), and I think they are easier to reload while keeping your eyes on the sky. But if I'm going to take a day-long walk and shoot rising quail (with light loads, of course), well, that's why I bought my Silver Pigeon.
They are a migratory bird, and like ducks and geese, require a HIP number and a 3-shot limit for the shotgun.
Del,
If it is a 687EELL with sideplates, I would think that it is a fair price. There is a ton of difference between a 686, which is an entry level gun, and a really nice dressed up 687 EELL. The price you quoted was about what that gun with tubes and case was bringing about 10-15 years ago. I thought it was a great gun, but it just didn't suit me as I never shot one well.
I feel it would be a great gun for sporting clays or light field duty.
While I have never raced a semi-auto, you would be surprised how fast I can feed my
Fox side-by-side with ejectors!
BANG-BANG; FOOMMmm;
CLUNK-CLUNK(that’s two shells at a time); BANG-BANG
Del,
New 12ga 687EELL at Beikirch's in Rochester, NY for $6250.
Me? I'm still trying to pay my school taxes.
the only semi I will own is in rifle or pistol calibre. I learned many moons ago on a single shot western field, then graduated to an 870 wingmaster pump in 16 guage. decided to upgrade to 12 so went with an ithica. worst mistake I ever made. could usually go out with a box of shells and come back out with my limit but with the semi I would go out with 4 boxes and might have two!!! the problem is that I didn't have time to think--DO I NEED THIS SHOT??
with the pump I had that option instead of popping off three with two of them being wasted. same with squirrel and duck hunting. believe me I came home with some torn up game!! lol to each his own though
Guys thanks for the info I did not realize there was a 687 and a 686 EELL. The gun I looked at is a beauty and I'm currently working on a deal to acquire said item.
I love both of them, as I grew up I think the pump is a bit of a waste of time, still looks great in movies but pants in real hunting. For me I have to go with the safety aspect of the O/U, when the gun is broken open its safe and closed is live, with semi, its always ready to go.
For Pigeons, as in the wild Wood pigeons of UK, both are great, for Driven Pheasant shooting etc. has to be O/U. Proper water-fowling semiauto! Plus I like that extra weight of the o/u too, just helps me with gun mount!
Bryan Nelson
www.Sportingagent.com
Guys thanks for the info I did not realize there was a 687 and a 686 EELL. The gun I looked at is a beauty and I'm currently working on a deal to acquire said item.
www.chinaicemaker.com
Well I went back and checked the gun is a 687 EELL. The wood is fancy Turkish walnut. Looks very much like French.
Del,
Got your email on the Sharps. I'll have to pass on that one.
Just about any place I have ever hunted uplands I haven't been required to plug my gun to three shots max. What's up with that? I will load my A-5 up with five shots simply so I don't have to fumble around loading it as often. I rarely shoot more than two rounds at a pheasant. Occasionally it will take three rounds to get a bird. Impossible to get more than two shots shooting at mountain grouse. As to the weight, I swing a heavier gun better anyway and five rounds in my gun isn't any heavier than five rounds in my pocket.
Admittedly, I have never hunted doves so maybe they are a three shot max item?
Ah, thanks Amflyer. Forgot about that. I know the feds on both sides of the border have been relaxing the 3-shot plug rule for some special goose hunting, particularly the spring hunts for snows.
Post a Comment