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Some Notes from the Barrel

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November 08, 2012

Some Notes from the Barrel

By David E. Petzal

…As in, ‘…it’s our turn in the barrel.” For those of you in other parts of the country, Hurricane Sandy was not a disappointment. It was the worst storm in this part of the country since the Long Island Express in 1938, which killed something over 1,000 people on Long Island and almost took Providence, RI, off the map, which would not have been so bad except that Providence has some good restaurants.

We will get around to guns in a minute, but first some observations: The major concern is not so much loss of light or heat, although that is getting bad in some parts, but shortage of gas, which is very serious in places and, despite the assurances of various pols, not getting any better.  If your house is freezing at night you can take a couple of extra dogs to bed, but when your car is immobilized, you’ve truly had the green weenie.

Some sections here have learned that If the storm is bad enough in your neck of the woods, there is nothing that anyone can do for you for weeks—or more. “You’re on your own, son,” as the parson said in Blazing Saddles.

So far, no one has shot a looter, or thrown down on someone in a gas line, but there’s still time for that. In some of the hardest-hit neighborhoods, people have banded together with shotguns and clubs, or so the papers have it, to discourage those who feel free to come and help themselves.

Sandy came ashore as a Category 1 storm with 80 mph winds and that was enough to dismantle three states. If it had hit land as a category 4 or 5, with winds over 120 mph, things would be post-apocalyptic. We would not have to wait for Dec. 22, 2012. Speaking of which, it’s odd that no one has mentioned that date. If The End is coming, this is a pretty good start.

Keep smiling. Your turn is coming. Have lots of gas and ammo on hand.

Comments (25)

Top Rated
All Comments
from Mark-1 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Well DP, don't know if gas for the vehicle be much help in rubble filled streets, but just the same my heart goes out to my neighbors Downstate and in NJ and Conn. 10-gals gas for the generator doesn’t go far, and things are miserable if a structure isn’t weather proof in snow and freezing temps.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Amflyer wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Eh.

No gas? I have bikes.
No Food? I have jerky.
No Scotch...I have guns, and I bet the neighbor has Scotch.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from tootall75 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

oops

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Safado wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

One of my co-workers was able to get in contact with an Aunt on Long Island; and I quote-"Will not have power for a month, no heat, sewage backing up into the house, roof leaking and no gasoline". I live in California and with the possibility of earthquakes I am prepared to last two weeks without outside help if I can stay in my house. House destruction and all bets are off. My thoughts and prayers are definitely with those impacted.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from fitch270 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Mark-1,
I'll second your comment, many in my area had their turn last year with Irene. One thing though,ten gallons of gas will last a lot longer if the generator isn't running nonstop.Here in the Catskills the propane company I work for had some customers runnning stand by generators, some of whom were paniced about running out.These things are meant to get you by in a pinch, not supply power for life as usual.Not everyone gets that part of being prepared for an emergency is adjusting your thinking.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from crm3006 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Had a little storm named Ike down here on the third coast a few years back. Back before economic times went straight to hell, the Bookkeeper budgeted in a generator, and we got a 55 gallon barrel, and a hand pump, and a handy-dandy set of cordless tools. Two well stocked deep freezes, some propane, and a goodly stash of canned goods, along with the normal supply of ammo that we usually keep on hand, and we made out just fine. Ike was hardly a blip on the national news, and Ike came ashore as a Cat 2, or Cat 3, depending on your source.
The storm surge, as usual, was worse than the storm.
The moral of this little tale, is that people down here either took the advice and evacuated, or prepared. They did not sit like blinded bullfrogs, and then croak to the guv'ernment for help.

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from Longbeard wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Y'all up there in the latest disaster area have my sympathies, really you do. But that is a lot of fuss for a Cat 1 storm. I lived through Andrew and a whole host of other hurricanes and y'all should count your lucky stars it wasn't worse.

Granted, there were some other factors involved to generate a heckuva storm surge and a double whammy of snow. but those of us who live in the path have learned to deal with big blows and the first rule is: don't mess with Mama Nature. If she says "I'm going to huff and puff", you'd best prepare as well as you can, go to ground, and tuck your tail 'cause it's about to let loose. Preparation is the key. And tape on your windows only means that some pieces of broken glass will stick together on the tape.

Now that you know what its like, maybe you'll have some more sympathy for the rest of us who deal with these storms on a regular basis every year. In the meantime, get after your emergency personnel and lawmakers to come up with better solutions before it happens again. FLA has adopted the Miami-Dade Bldg. Code and we're better off for it. maybe that might be a good goal to aim for in the future.

Good luck and know that you are in our prayers.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mark-1 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

There is certainly something to be said for disaster prep, but as previously blogged all bets are off when your home is damaged beyond keeping out weather. What you wild eye'd boys and gals living in sub-tropics don't realize is how much a drag life is keeping weather out without modern utilities in sub-freezing weather and snow. A person has added two big stones to roll up hill to top all the other troubles.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from tom warner wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

I live on a rural road that has been subject to power failures most of our lives, so I have always kept emergency supplies on hand; food, kerosene lamps, water, and so on. The best investment I ever made was installing a propane run generator about 10 years ago along with two big tanks. Goes on automatically and will supply power for a quite a long haul. Kind of expensive at the time, but has been well worth it over the years, especially during the Winters. We're old geezers now and it gives us great peace of mind.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from JamesD wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

In the old days we had a thing called civil defense. The program was geared more towards what to do in case of a nuclear attack. Communities were organized and we were given training in school in things like first aid and even emergency child birth. As the cold war faded out americans put their fate in the hands of more centralized institutions like FEMA. Maybe it's time to dig out those old manuals and up date them to deal with various emergencies. How many more lessons do we have to learn before we realize that the government cannot come to the rescue and fix things. Communities have to do this for themselves.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Marion Johnson wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

You had an eleven foot tidal wave. Katrina poured 31 feet on Mississippi. The enviro-nazis are gonna say you were living in the wrong place,those who weren't living there also that is. We usually hold our hurricanes when the weather is hot, which makes survival miserable but not deadly like cold. We feel for you. I just read on DEER & DEER HUNTING that the storm screwed up your deer season too; salt in the wound.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from gibr22 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

My heart goes out to the people in the tristate area affected by Sandy but been there done that. Andrew,Wilma and 2005 hurricane survivor here. You need the Pols to pass requiring the grocery stores and gas stations have backup power on site, go over your check list every hurricane season ie check your generator,gas supply, foodstuffs and ammo. If a cat 1 can do this just think what a joy cat 5 Andrew was to get thru and Wilma sped up from a 1 to 3 before she left. Good luck but I still chuckle when tristate residents complain. Boy Scout oath: Be Prepared

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from country road wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

The folks I feel sorriest for are ones whose homes were totally washed away by the storm surge. There's no amount of preparation you can take for something like that, except not to build near the shore to begin with, and that ain't gonna happen. Down here on the Gulf Coast the folks just go right back and build again after they're washed away---like the sparrow that builds its nest in a drainspout and then builds in the same place agein. Otherwise, a disaster plan is a fine thing to have---I have more than one generator, two chain saws and emergency food and water for an extended period. I'm not a prepper, but I do my best to be prepared and self sufficient. I don't have enough firepower to repel an invading force, but I can sure protect myself and my family from scofflaws and looters who wish to do us harm.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Here in Montana where I'm pheasant hunting (or trying to!) we just had three blizzards back to back in less than four days. I finally got fed up and thought I'd try a bit of hunting during the window before storm three hit. Should have called it a day sooner because I got caught when it fell like a hammer about three in the afternoon. I made it out okay but pushed the envelope a bit as well as snow over the hood of the Jimmy all the way to the highway. I haven't seen Montana weather like this in November since I was a young man. These days it seems like there's never enough snow for the ski resorts even after the New Year. The upside to this is if Mother Nature can recover to historical winters at least a couple of years in a row it may drive out many of the fair weather transplants who are moving here and wrecking access to hunting lands. I sure wouldn't mind seeing Cabelas go belly up on that aspect of their business! Yeah, that's the ticket. Or maybe the Snow Princess will find and magically fall in love with me and we'll live happily ever after. Fairy tales don't come true but they're nice to think about ... because reality sucks.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from dale freeman wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Uncle Dave;
The problem is, they've never been in the barrel before.
I can assure you, when they're introduced to the barrel,
they will cover their heaDS AND RUN LIKE HELL.
If they only knew what's ahead, they would shut up and m
man up.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Started to gearup and swoop up to assist those folks, but after hearing what the new elected government (little g) is doing or should I say the lack of, I've decided to enjoy this deer season with my Grandson Alex.

People get, what they voted for!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

When Joplin Mo was whacked last year, people made donations in diesel fuel. I spent 3 days up dar and not once did I see the use or even the need of. Surely those of us could of used a tank or two of "gasoline" instead. What was really needed is volunteers and the support of, not just a token visit by some big buss full of people dressed for a hike just to step over a 2x4 and say they did something great!!!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

I read somewhere that after Katrina, FEMA was looking into gasifier-(wood gas)fueled generators for just this situation.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Being a long time resident of the south shore of Long Island allow me to straighten out a few misconceptions. The only guns I saw was one gentlemen air drying his rifles on TV. No one was shot, r@ped or looted. Food and water were distributed in an orderly lawful manner. Gasoline lines were monitored by our police force. One of the most professional in the country. On 11/08 my wife waited 15 minute for gas. Not to minimize this a lot of homes were ruined among them cousins and friends. But we will rebuild. There has also been a great deal of gallows humor. My favorite; Why did Nassau have to get dressed up like New Orleans for Halloween? There also have been some home grown videos on You Tube. My favorite LIPA Style (official video). Most of the devastation on TV were one time Summer Bungalows. They were never lived in year round. But as time went by people wanted to live closer to the water. Every couple of decades this happens. A lot of the older year round homes on Long Beach were built on artificial mounds or pylons.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

PS The nice thing about a tidal flood it's gone in 12 hours. Almost forgot that one.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

In addition to the drownings, a few people were electrocuted, some by wading through water in their basements to turn off the electric power.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Douglas wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Some archaeologist (or anthropologist) found Mayan glyphs recently that indicate the world ain't ending in 2012.
I and my wife have lived totally off the grid our entire adult lives with solar electricity, wood heat, and a big garden. Raised 4 kids and put them thru college that way. There are ways to live well without power lines and all the devices that our society craves.
We went thru a devastating ice storm in 1998 with no lack of heat or electricity. America can learn something from these storms.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from fox4 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Live off the grid...
Except for internet?
Don't get me wrong. I bet even Jeremiah Johnson probably would have checked in with the Gun Nuts periodically.
Elk don't know how many feet a horse has!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Douglas I did learn one thing about this storm. How great a hot shower feels.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tenderfoot wrote 1 year 14 weeks ago

Super Storm Sandy was what is a called a One-a-Hundred year storm. However, the previous one was in 1938, which was about 74 years.

What this means is that there will certainly be another storm with the same devastation in the future. It may not even effect our children, but our grandchildren.

If areas of land below 15' above sea level are developed AND the construction is not robust to withstand another surge of water, the tragedy will be repeated, as it was again over from 1938. Back then, the climate science wasn't as advanced as it is today, so we didn't learn like we should have.

If residents there rebuild again, without this in mind, and then succumb to another disaster, should the rest of the US underwrite the continuing folly of ignoring reality?

The residents of FL learned a lesson about adherence to strict building codes after Andrew struck and caused such widespread damage. The issue was not the codes, but the enforcement of the codes.

How many of the South Shore residences were actually in conformance to the existing codes? I bet if it were looked into, many of the residences were probably not in conformance.

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from crm3006 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Had a little storm named Ike down here on the third coast a few years back. Back before economic times went straight to hell, the Bookkeeper budgeted in a generator, and we got a 55 gallon barrel, and a hand pump, and a handy-dandy set of cordless tools. Two well stocked deep freezes, some propane, and a goodly stash of canned goods, along with the normal supply of ammo that we usually keep on hand, and we made out just fine. Ike was hardly a blip on the national news, and Ike came ashore as a Cat 2, or Cat 3, depending on your source.
The storm surge, as usual, was worse than the storm.
The moral of this little tale, is that people down here either took the advice and evacuated, or prepared. They did not sit like blinded bullfrogs, and then croak to the guv'ernment for help.

+6 Good Comment? | | Report
from fitch270 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Mark-1,
I'll second your comment, many in my area had their turn last year with Irene. One thing though,ten gallons of gas will last a lot longer if the generator isn't running nonstop.Here in the Catskills the propane company I work for had some customers runnning stand by generators, some of whom were paniced about running out.These things are meant to get you by in a pinch, not supply power for life as usual.Not everyone gets that part of being prepared for an emergency is adjusting your thinking.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Amflyer wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Eh.

No gas? I have bikes.
No Food? I have jerky.
No Scotch...I have guns, and I bet the neighbor has Scotch.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from JamesD wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

In the old days we had a thing called civil defense. The program was geared more towards what to do in case of a nuclear attack. Communities were organized and we were given training in school in things like first aid and even emergency child birth. As the cold war faded out americans put their fate in the hands of more centralized institutions like FEMA. Maybe it's time to dig out those old manuals and up date them to deal with various emergencies. How many more lessons do we have to learn before we realize that the government cannot come to the rescue and fix things. Communities have to do this for themselves.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from tom warner wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

I live on a rural road that has been subject to power failures most of our lives, so I have always kept emergency supplies on hand; food, kerosene lamps, water, and so on. The best investment I ever made was installing a propane run generator about 10 years ago along with two big tanks. Goes on automatically and will supply power for a quite a long haul. Kind of expensive at the time, but has been well worth it over the years, especially during the Winters. We're old geezers now and it gives us great peace of mind.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Safado wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

One of my co-workers was able to get in contact with an Aunt on Long Island; and I quote-"Will not have power for a month, no heat, sewage backing up into the house, roof leaking and no gasoline". I live in California and with the possibility of earthquakes I am prepared to last two weeks without outside help if I can stay in my house. House destruction and all bets are off. My thoughts and prayers are definitely with those impacted.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Longbeard wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Y'all up there in the latest disaster area have my sympathies, really you do. But that is a lot of fuss for a Cat 1 storm. I lived through Andrew and a whole host of other hurricanes and y'all should count your lucky stars it wasn't worse.

Granted, there were some other factors involved to generate a heckuva storm surge and a double whammy of snow. but those of us who live in the path have learned to deal with big blows and the first rule is: don't mess with Mama Nature. If she says "I'm going to huff and puff", you'd best prepare as well as you can, go to ground, and tuck your tail 'cause it's about to let loose. Preparation is the key. And tape on your windows only means that some pieces of broken glass will stick together on the tape.

Now that you know what its like, maybe you'll have some more sympathy for the rest of us who deal with these storms on a regular basis every year. In the meantime, get after your emergency personnel and lawmakers to come up with better solutions before it happens again. FLA has adopted the Miami-Dade Bldg. Code and we're better off for it. maybe that might be a good goal to aim for in the future.

Good luck and know that you are in our prayers.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Marion Johnson wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

You had an eleven foot tidal wave. Katrina poured 31 feet on Mississippi. The enviro-nazis are gonna say you were living in the wrong place,those who weren't living there also that is. We usually hold our hurricanes when the weather is hot, which makes survival miserable but not deadly like cold. We feel for you. I just read on DEER & DEER HUNTING that the storm screwed up your deer season too; salt in the wound.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from fox4 wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Live off the grid...
Except for internet?
Don't get me wrong. I bet even Jeremiah Johnson probably would have checked in with the Gun Nuts periodically.
Elk don't know how many feet a horse has!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Douglas I did learn one thing about this storm. How great a hot shower feels.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mark-1 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Well DP, don't know if gas for the vehicle be much help in rubble filled streets, but just the same my heart goes out to my neighbors Downstate and in NJ and Conn. 10-gals gas for the generator doesn’t go far, and things are miserable if a structure isn’t weather proof in snow and freezing temps.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from tootall75 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

oops

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mark-1 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

There is certainly something to be said for disaster prep, but as previously blogged all bets are off when your home is damaged beyond keeping out weather. What you wild eye'd boys and gals living in sub-tropics don't realize is how much a drag life is keeping weather out without modern utilities in sub-freezing weather and snow. A person has added two big stones to roll up hill to top all the other troubles.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from gibr22 wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

My heart goes out to the people in the tristate area affected by Sandy but been there done that. Andrew,Wilma and 2005 hurricane survivor here. You need the Pols to pass requiring the grocery stores and gas stations have backup power on site, go over your check list every hurricane season ie check your generator,gas supply, foodstuffs and ammo. If a cat 1 can do this just think what a joy cat 5 Andrew was to get thru and Wilma sped up from a 1 to 3 before she left. Good luck but I still chuckle when tristate residents complain. Boy Scout oath: Be Prepared

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from country road wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

The folks I feel sorriest for are ones whose homes were totally washed away by the storm surge. There's no amount of preparation you can take for something like that, except not to build near the shore to begin with, and that ain't gonna happen. Down here on the Gulf Coast the folks just go right back and build again after they're washed away---like the sparrow that builds its nest in a drainspout and then builds in the same place agein. Otherwise, a disaster plan is a fine thing to have---I have more than one generator, two chain saws and emergency food and water for an extended period. I'm not a prepper, but I do my best to be prepared and self sufficient. I don't have enough firepower to repel an invading force, but I can sure protect myself and my family from scofflaws and looters who wish to do us harm.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Here in Montana where I'm pheasant hunting (or trying to!) we just had three blizzards back to back in less than four days. I finally got fed up and thought I'd try a bit of hunting during the window before storm three hit. Should have called it a day sooner because I got caught when it fell like a hammer about three in the afternoon. I made it out okay but pushed the envelope a bit as well as snow over the hood of the Jimmy all the way to the highway. I haven't seen Montana weather like this in November since I was a young man. These days it seems like there's never enough snow for the ski resorts even after the New Year. The upside to this is if Mother Nature can recover to historical winters at least a couple of years in a row it may drive out many of the fair weather transplants who are moving here and wrecking access to hunting lands. I sure wouldn't mind seeing Cabelas go belly up on that aspect of their business! Yeah, that's the ticket. Or maybe the Snow Princess will find and magically fall in love with me and we'll live happily ever after. Fairy tales don't come true but they're nice to think about ... because reality sucks.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Started to gearup and swoop up to assist those folks, but after hearing what the new elected government (little g) is doing or should I say the lack of, I've decided to enjoy this deer season with my Grandson Alex.

People get, what they voted for!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

When Joplin Mo was whacked last year, people made donations in diesel fuel. I spent 3 days up dar and not once did I see the use or even the need of. Surely those of us could of used a tank or two of "gasoline" instead. What was really needed is volunteers and the support of, not just a token visit by some big buss full of people dressed for a hike just to step over a 2x4 and say they did something great!!!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

I read somewhere that after Katrina, FEMA was looking into gasifier-(wood gas)fueled generators for just this situation.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Being a long time resident of the south shore of Long Island allow me to straighten out a few misconceptions. The only guns I saw was one gentlemen air drying his rifles on TV. No one was shot, r@ped or looted. Food and water were distributed in an orderly lawful manner. Gasoline lines were monitored by our police force. One of the most professional in the country. On 11/08 my wife waited 15 minute for gas. Not to minimize this a lot of homes were ruined among them cousins and friends. But we will rebuild. There has also been a great deal of gallows humor. My favorite; Why did Nassau have to get dressed up like New Orleans for Halloween? There also have been some home grown videos on You Tube. My favorite LIPA Style (official video). Most of the devastation on TV were one time Summer Bungalows. They were never lived in year round. But as time went by people wanted to live closer to the water. Every couple of decades this happens. A lot of the older year round homes on Long Beach were built on artificial mounds or pylons.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Carl Huber wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

PS The nice thing about a tidal flood it's gone in 12 hours. Almost forgot that one.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from 99explorer wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

In addition to the drownings, a few people were electrocuted, some by wading through water in their basements to turn off the electric power.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Douglas wrote 1 year 21 weeks ago

Some archaeologist (or anthropologist) found Mayan glyphs recently that indicate the world ain't ending in 2012.
I and my wife have lived totally off the grid our entire adult lives with solar electricity, wood heat, and a big garden. Raised 4 kids and put them thru college that way. There are ways to live well without power lines and all the devices that our society craves.
We went thru a devastating ice storm in 1998 with no lack of heat or electricity. America can learn something from these storms.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tenderfoot wrote 1 year 14 weeks ago

Super Storm Sandy was what is a called a One-a-Hundred year storm. However, the previous one was in 1938, which was about 74 years.

What this means is that there will certainly be another storm with the same devastation in the future. It may not even effect our children, but our grandchildren.

If areas of land below 15' above sea level are developed AND the construction is not robust to withstand another surge of water, the tragedy will be repeated, as it was again over from 1938. Back then, the climate science wasn't as advanced as it is today, so we didn't learn like we should have.

If residents there rebuild again, without this in mind, and then succumb to another disaster, should the rest of the US underwrite the continuing folly of ignoring reality?

The residents of FL learned a lesson about adherence to strict building codes after Andrew struck and caused such widespread damage. The issue was not the codes, but the enforcement of the codes.

How many of the South Shore residences were actually in conformance to the existing codes? I bet if it were looked into, many of the residences were probably not in conformance.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from dale freeman wrote 1 year 22 weeks ago

Uncle Dave;
The problem is, they've never been in the barrel before.
I can assure you, when they're introduced to the barrel,
they will cover their heaDS AND RUN LIKE HELL.
If they only knew what's ahead, they would shut up and m
man up.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report

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