



December 12, 2012
CT Woman Turns in WWII German Rifle at Gun Buyback
By Phil Bourjaily
Gun buybacks, the police programs where people turn in guns in exchange for cash or gift cards, usually collect little more than old and rusty junk. I know I own at least one gun I would happily trade for a gift card. But there are times when a real gem or two will show up.
The Hartford, Conn. police officers running a gun buyback on Dec. 1 were flabbergasted when a woman showed up with the grandfather of all assault weapons: a German Sturmgewehr 44, looking to trade it for a $100 Wal-Mart gift card.
Her late father had brought it back from World War II, and it stood in a closet in her home. She had no idea what it was other than a 68-year-old souvenir.* To the credit of the Hartford Police, they knew what the gun was, and that it was valuable. They told her the rifle was worth a lot of money and refused to let her turn it in. The woman plans on selling the rifle. She may get anywhere from $20,000-$30,000.
About 425,000 Sturmgewehr 44s were made and used by the Germans from 1943 to the end of the war. It chambered a shortened rifle cartridge called the 7.92x33mm Kurz and could be fired single-shot or full auto. It proved very effective in combat and was the inspiration for the AK-47 and others. The name "Sturmgewehr" literally means "Storm Rifle" but was translated into English at some point as "Assault Rifle."
*Best souvenir ever: my dad and a couple of his friends in the American Field Service bought a German staff car for four cartons of cigarettes in North Africa during WWII. They drove it until just before they shipped out for Italy, then sold the tires and left it. I was very young when he first told me about it and I couldn’t believe that he didn’t bring it back home after the war for me to drive when I got old enough.
CC Image from Wikipedia.
Comments (41)
Surprising to me that the cops did not just take it, then argue among themselves about who got to keep it.
I would have just gave her the $100 bucks and kept it. If all it was to her was to her was a criminals tool. To me just being able to hold the grip on such a gun would walk you through the history of the weapon and those who carried it before. Those officers' deserve a pat on the back for being honest and another pat on the back for knowing what it was. Surely saving it from the scrap heap a piece of history lost forever. Great story Phil.
I would have just gave her the $100 bucks and kept it. If all it was to her was to her was a criminals tool. To me just being able to hold the grip on such a gun would walk you through the history of the weapon and those who carried it before. Those officers' deserve a pat on the back for being honest and another pat on the back for knowing what it was. Surely saving it from the scrap heap a piece of history lost forever. Great story Phil.
While I'm glad the police had the decency to tell her what it was and how much it might be worth, I don't know how she'll be able to maintain ownership of it much less sell it. (I understand it currently remains with the police). Unless it was entered into the NFA registry at some point it is an unregistered (and non-transferrable) machine gun. I hope there is some mechanism within the ATF's rules that would allow her to get full value for the rifle while also keeping it from the scrap heap.
One of my dad's best friends and his father attended a military surplus auction in Great Falls in the early 60s and bought a late 1940s Ford sedan staff car. When they got home and opened the trunk they found a WWII Browning 30 cal machine gun complete with tripod! No one wanted it back so they had the gun made inoperable (sigh!) and it was prominently displayed in the sporting goods section of their hardware store in Western Montana until it closed in the mid-80s. I wonder what happened to that piece. I'll see if his ex-wife is still alive next time I go home. She ran an antique store so I expect it was "liquidated."
My father brought a .25 cal Beretta back from the War and kept it in his dresser drawer. I asked, "Wow, dad, did you get it off of a dead German officer?" He replied: "No, I won it in a poker game at the base before I was deployed... along with the guy's car"
My father brought a .25 cal Beretta back from the War and kept it in his dresser drawer. I asked, "Wow, dad, did you get it off of a dead German officer?" He replied: "No, I won it in a poker game at the base before I was deployed... along with the guy's car"
Wow! Dare I say something good came of a gun buy back? Not quite, they lucked into it.
Shame on the Hartford PD for hosting such a patently ineffective program, but kudos to the officers for knowing and notifying the owner what it was. I hope they at least got pictures of themselves with it.
I certainly hope that the BATF doesn't require the rifle to be buggered up so it's useless scrap. It belongs in a Museum gun collection on display.
When I was going to the Univ. of Wyoming in the late 60s, a bar in Laramie, among other interesting items, had a gun cabinet in which resided a Japanese Nambu (nee Hotchkiss) machine gun with several clips of ammo. All of us assumed that it was demilled and wished it wasn't. Well, in the 80s a couple of off-duty ATF agents asked the proprieter to show them the weapon. Suprise! It wasn't demilled at all and was fully functional. The Nambu and ammo went away with the agents, never to be seen again.
I don't have a problem with the gun buy back program. I suspect it has turned up a lot of hot (as in stolen) guns and led to many convictions. Probably even some for violent crimes. I'm also quite certain that most of those cops are usually good enough to try steering the owners of really fine weapons to buyers who will give them a better price. For instance, who would want to see a fine old Model 12 or Browning A-5 turned into scrap? Not too hard to find a good home for one of those. Up here the buy back program is different and really sad because the Mounties have no choice but to destroy anything that even crosses the threshold. They absolutely cannot redirect to another buyer, etc. No way! That fine piece above would have been cut to pieces and nobody could have done a thing about it. The antis do get crazy sometimes.
America should thank Almighty God that most of the Sg44's were sent to the Russian front. As for gun buybacks; the City of Buffalo N.Y. has had many including a few toy-gun buy-back(don't even ask). They have done nothing to stem the tide of violent crime.
Too bad the only civilian version only comes in 22 rim fire. If they made it in a more powerful caliber I would definitely buy one.
Hi...
Kudos for the cops for their professionalism.
I hope that the lady can successfully dispose of it at a good price, and without a lot of red tape from ATF&E.
Police buy-back programs are intended to get guns off the street, but as in this case,it gets guns out of the attic.
How do police depts buy back weapons without an ffl?...I am not aware of a BATF waiver for police buy backs
How do police depts buy back weapons without an ffl?...I am not aware of a BATF waiver for police buy backs
I don't need to have a firearms license to buy a gun in Montana. Why would the police need one? They're not selling the guns, they're supposed to be simply acquiring and destroying them, hence their reluctance to take this one. They couldn't legally resell it and didn't want to see something that valuable destroyed.
Ah, I see. Because it's an automatic weapon it would require a federal license to even possess it. Hmmmm. Maybe another reason why they didn't accept it?
Wrong! Local police can and do regularly confiscate illegal automatic weapons during drug raids. They are the law so in this case they have to be above it to perform their duty.
I assure you that Ct is a bit different than Montana or Nevada....where I hail from. And a drug raid is a "legal" activity and responsibility of a police force. Gun buy backs are just that...money or consideration in return for receipt of a firearm...seems to me to be a transaction and not a section of the penal code. Yes I am sure there is some aspect that lets it happen I just wonder where the regs are buried. Hey I also credit the cops with not taking the weapon and offering the women some good insights. i always wonder how many MDL 21's, Superposed, Colt Single Actions etc end up in a smelter or dumped in the ocean because of these things....many stolen...some out of ignorance of what the firearm is or represents.
One more aspect of the buy backs...all I am aware of are offered with amnesty for the individual turning the gun in. So there is no real dent in crime other than the gun being off the street. The potential trigger puller can still be wandering the streets.The cops do not run the numbers against NCIS theft reports either.
Hi Phil: Great article. They should let her "part-out" this gun less the receiver. The parts are worth thousands. Just the magazine is worth several hundred dollars. Go to a WWII re-inactment and you can hear them fire. Great sound of the 8MM/Kurtz ammo. Way ahead of its time with lower power cartridge, large 30 round mag and recoil spring/selective fire, push detent to break down lower from upper and spring loaded dust cover...Sound familiar? Pretty cool weapon,
Scott
OHH
If you are a resident of Canada, there might be a problem buying any firearm in any State. You can't even legally handle one in some states.
Most cops barely know how to use their firearms and many know damn little about guns in general.
Not only is that a awesome firearm, it has far and away the best name for a fighting weapon.
Let's be grateful to the knowledgeable and ethical Hartford Police for properly guiding this woman. But now, is the ATF going to charge her for possessing a full-auto w/o the federal license? Any bets?
ScottinIA-- you wouldn't happen to be Hauptmann Scott from IA would you?
WAM,
This is true. I had a French cousin, that when visiting for the summer was forbidden from handling out firearms by state law.
He was, however, allowed to drop them and run away.
Cheers.
I read a book about a German official by the name of Albert Speer. He started as an architect and somewhat "insider" of Hitler back in the days before the war, planning the streets and buildings of New Berlin. When the war started, he was made to be the equivalent of Head Quartermaster, or some such. One of the interesting points I remember reading about was the fact that the troops and officers at the front wanted more of these StG 44's, while Hitler refused and demanded more tanks.
So, in a fit of German brilliance, Speer simply relabeled the rifles as "Tank." Quota and Fuhrer satisfied.
So, this woman may not have had an automatic weapon in her home, but a German tank. Does this change anything?
Sadly, if she had the paperwork saying it was a tank and not a machine gun, it probably would make a difference in our current court system........
I worked in a steel mill in syracuse n.y. for 40+ years and every year the cops would bring in all the metal things that were used in a crime to be melted up. Us workers would eyeball all the pistols rifles and shotgunsand try an talk the guard into letting us have just one. I remember asking my parner once, if he could have just one what would it be? He said" I'd take that tire iron over there, I could sure use it".
Speaking of souvenirs, my grandfather brought back a 48 star flag from a WWII battle ship. But as far as this story goes, glad to see some honest cops. Hope the rifle ends up with a museum or a collector who appreciates its historical significance. And every time I see this rifle I beathe a sigh of relief. Had it shown up earlier in the war, everything would have been different.
Yes, kudos to the Hartford police for realizing its value, and refusing to accept it.
If I were here, I'd contact Amoskeag Auctions in New Hampshire, an auction house for high-end collectible firearms. Check out their website some time; there is some really cool stuff being auctioned.
My father served on a Navy destroyer in the Pacific in WWII, and brought home a common Japanese rifle, an Arisaka type 99. Every man on the ship got one, as his the ship captain had a connection with some marines who had siezed an armory in Tokyo immediately after the surrender. Each of these rifles (and many other types as well) had an engraving of a chrysanthemum flower, the symbol of the Japanese emporer. Since it was considered a disgrace to surrender something with the emporer's symbol on it, the Japanese ground off the engraving prior to surrender. I'm told thousands of these rifles came back to the states after the war, and are pretty common at gun shows. If the chrysanthemum is ground away, the rifle was surrendered at the end of hostilities; if intact, it was captured by force.
I am fortunate enough to have one of the Arisakas with the chrysanthemum still intact on the receiver. The collector will grimace here, because my 7.7 was tapped for a scope and carries a beautiful Monte Carlo walnut stock with an ebony forend tip. The front scope base sits right on the flower. The bolt handle was cut and re-attached. Because the head space was a little sloppy, the rifle was reconfigured into a wildcat-like cartridge, because one thread turn of the barrel was removed, which created a "7.7 JRE" requiring trimmed and formed Norma brass. The new cartridge is very formidable, as it has a few mule deer credited to it's history, but the rifle is now a safe queen for all practical purposes, residing with an intact '42 k98k, 2 similarly sporterized M1917 Enfields and a Nat Match Garand. Collect some, shoot some, want some. That StG44 is on my want list...
WAM, I'm well aware of the legal obstacles that can get in the way of Canadians wishing to purchase guns in the US. Watched some poor guy from Lethbridge cry like a baby at the gun counter in Havre this fall when they wouldn't even talk to him about purchasing a pistol. Pistols can be purchased up here but they are awful expensive and not a lot to pick from. As I'm sure you know, it's legally complicated storing and using one so I didn't bother bringing mine up when I emigrated back in 1989. Can't hunt with them so what's the point? Perhaps because I'm still a US citizen it might still be possible to purchase without difficulty? Not really interested in picking up any more guns anyway.
@Carl Huber
"Too bad the only civilian version only comes in 22 rim fire. If they made it in a more powerful caliber I would definitely buy one."
If you think they're only available as .22s, then your trying to buy one from the wrong people.
hza-kulmbach.de
under products BD44
Not hard to see how the Russians came up with the AK.
My question is why would this woman so easily give up something that was passed down to her by her father? I can't imagine anything more disrespectful to her fathers memory. He undoubtedly went through quite a bit of effort to bring this thing back, and she was willing to just scrap it. Now she's going to sell it and get a boatload of money that she truly doesn't deserve. Stinking ingrate, I wish the cops would've kept it.
i have a box of 20 hornady hollow points for one of these i was getting bullets for a mauser and this is what the pawn shop ordered. to bad for no refunds or returns. so if anybody wants a box of bullets for a rifle like that ive got one
Hi Phil. One and the same. Happy Holiday's. Glad you are taking some Roosters!
very interesting story and a good example of making sure you know everything you can about any gun you own
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I certainly hope that the BATF doesn't require the rifle to be buggered up so it's useless scrap. It belongs in a Museum gun collection on display.
Hi...
Kudos for the cops for their professionalism.
I hope that the lady can successfully dispose of it at a good price, and without a lot of red tape from ATF&E.
Surprising to me that the cops did not just take it, then argue among themselves about who got to keep it.
While I'm glad the police had the decency to tell her what it was and how much it might be worth, I don't know how she'll be able to maintain ownership of it much less sell it. (I understand it currently remains with the police). Unless it was entered into the NFA registry at some point it is an unregistered (and non-transferrable) machine gun. I hope there is some mechanism within the ATF's rules that would allow her to get full value for the rifle while also keeping it from the scrap heap.
My father brought a .25 cal Beretta back from the War and kept it in his dresser drawer. I asked, "Wow, dad, did you get it off of a dead German officer?" He replied: "No, I won it in a poker game at the base before I was deployed... along with the guy's car"
I don't have a problem with the gun buy back program. I suspect it has turned up a lot of hot (as in stolen) guns and led to many convictions. Probably even some for violent crimes. I'm also quite certain that most of those cops are usually good enough to try steering the owners of really fine weapons to buyers who will give them a better price. For instance, who would want to see a fine old Model 12 or Browning A-5 turned into scrap? Not too hard to find a good home for one of those. Up here the buy back program is different and really sad because the Mounties have no choice but to destroy anything that even crosses the threshold. They absolutely cannot redirect to another buyer, etc. No way! That fine piece above would have been cut to pieces and nobody could have done a thing about it. The antis do get crazy sometimes.
How do police depts buy back weapons without an ffl?...I am not aware of a BATF waiver for police buy backs
Speaking of souvenirs, my grandfather brought back a 48 star flag from a WWII battle ship. But as far as this story goes, glad to see some honest cops. Hope the rifle ends up with a museum or a collector who appreciates its historical significance. And every time I see this rifle I beathe a sigh of relief. Had it shown up earlier in the war, everything would have been different.
Not hard to see how the Russians came up with the AK.
One of my dad's best friends and his father attended a military surplus auction in Great Falls in the early 60s and bought a late 1940s Ford sedan staff car. When they got home and opened the trunk they found a WWII Browning 30 cal machine gun complete with tripod! No one wanted it back so they had the gun made inoperable (sigh!) and it was prominently displayed in the sporting goods section of their hardware store in Western Montana until it closed in the mid-80s. I wonder what happened to that piece. I'll see if his ex-wife is still alive next time I go home. She ran an antique store so I expect it was "liquidated."
My father brought a .25 cal Beretta back from the War and kept it in his dresser drawer. I asked, "Wow, dad, did you get it off of a dead German officer?" He replied: "No, I won it in a poker game at the base before I was deployed... along with the guy's car"
Wow! Dare I say something good came of a gun buy back? Not quite, they lucked into it.
Shame on the Hartford PD for hosting such a patently ineffective program, but kudos to the officers for knowing and notifying the owner what it was. I hope they at least got pictures of themselves with it.
When I was going to the Univ. of Wyoming in the late 60s, a bar in Laramie, among other interesting items, had a gun cabinet in which resided a Japanese Nambu (nee Hotchkiss) machine gun with several clips of ammo. All of us assumed that it was demilled and wished it wasn't. Well, in the 80s a couple of off-duty ATF agents asked the proprieter to show them the weapon. Suprise! It wasn't demilled at all and was fully functional. The Nambu and ammo went away with the agents, never to be seen again.
America should thank Almighty God that most of the Sg44's were sent to the Russian front. As for gun buybacks; the City of Buffalo N.Y. has had many including a few toy-gun buy-back(don't even ask). They have done nothing to stem the tide of violent crime.
Too bad the only civilian version only comes in 22 rim fire. If they made it in a more powerful caliber I would definitely buy one.
Police buy-back programs are intended to get guns off the street, but as in this case,it gets guns out of the attic.
How do police depts buy back weapons without an ffl?...I am not aware of a BATF waiver for police buy backs
I don't need to have a firearms license to buy a gun in Montana. Why would the police need one? They're not selling the guns, they're supposed to be simply acquiring and destroying them, hence their reluctance to take this one. They couldn't legally resell it and didn't want to see something that valuable destroyed.
Ah, I see. Because it's an automatic weapon it would require a federal license to even possess it. Hmmmm. Maybe another reason why they didn't accept it?
Wrong! Local police can and do regularly confiscate illegal automatic weapons during drug raids. They are the law so in this case they have to be above it to perform their duty.
I assure you that Ct is a bit different than Montana or Nevada....where I hail from. And a drug raid is a "legal" activity and responsibility of a police force. Gun buy backs are just that...money or consideration in return for receipt of a firearm...seems to me to be a transaction and not a section of the penal code. Yes I am sure there is some aspect that lets it happen I just wonder where the regs are buried. Hey I also credit the cops with not taking the weapon and offering the women some good insights. i always wonder how many MDL 21's, Superposed, Colt Single Actions etc end up in a smelter or dumped in the ocean because of these things....many stolen...some out of ignorance of what the firearm is or represents.
One more aspect of the buy backs...all I am aware of are offered with amnesty for the individual turning the gun in. So there is no real dent in crime other than the gun being off the street. The potential trigger puller can still be wandering the streets.The cops do not run the numbers against NCIS theft reports either.
Hi Phil: Great article. They should let her "part-out" this gun less the receiver. The parts are worth thousands. Just the magazine is worth several hundred dollars. Go to a WWII re-inactment and you can hear them fire. Great sound of the 8MM/Kurtz ammo. Way ahead of its time with lower power cartridge, large 30 round mag and recoil spring/selective fire, push detent to break down lower from upper and spring loaded dust cover...Sound familiar? Pretty cool weapon,
Scott
OHH
If you are a resident of Canada, there might be a problem buying any firearm in any State. You can't even legally handle one in some states.
Most cops barely know how to use their firearms and many know damn little about guns in general.
Not only is that a awesome firearm, it has far and away the best name for a fighting weapon.
Let's be grateful to the knowledgeable and ethical Hartford Police for properly guiding this woman. But now, is the ATF going to charge her for possessing a full-auto w/o the federal license? Any bets?
ScottinIA-- you wouldn't happen to be Hauptmann Scott from IA would you?
WAM,
This is true. I had a French cousin, that when visiting for the summer was forbidden from handling out firearms by state law.
He was, however, allowed to drop them and run away.
Cheers.
I read a book about a German official by the name of Albert Speer. He started as an architect and somewhat "insider" of Hitler back in the days before the war, planning the streets and buildings of New Berlin. When the war started, he was made to be the equivalent of Head Quartermaster, or some such. One of the interesting points I remember reading about was the fact that the troops and officers at the front wanted more of these StG 44's, while Hitler refused and demanded more tanks.
So, in a fit of German brilliance, Speer simply relabeled the rifles as "Tank." Quota and Fuhrer satisfied.
So, this woman may not have had an automatic weapon in her home, but a German tank. Does this change anything?
Sadly, if she had the paperwork saying it was a tank and not a machine gun, it probably would make a difference in our current court system........
I worked in a steel mill in syracuse n.y. for 40+ years and every year the cops would bring in all the metal things that were used in a crime to be melted up. Us workers would eyeball all the pistols rifles and shotgunsand try an talk the guard into letting us have just one. I remember asking my parner once, if he could have just one what would it be? He said" I'd take that tire iron over there, I could sure use it".
Yes, kudos to the Hartford police for realizing its value, and refusing to accept it.
If I were here, I'd contact Amoskeag Auctions in New Hampshire, an auction house for high-end collectible firearms. Check out their website some time; there is some really cool stuff being auctioned.
My father served on a Navy destroyer in the Pacific in WWII, and brought home a common Japanese rifle, an Arisaka type 99. Every man on the ship got one, as his the ship captain had a connection with some marines who had siezed an armory in Tokyo immediately after the surrender. Each of these rifles (and many other types as well) had an engraving of a chrysanthemum flower, the symbol of the Japanese emporer. Since it was considered a disgrace to surrender something with the emporer's symbol on it, the Japanese ground off the engraving prior to surrender. I'm told thousands of these rifles came back to the states after the war, and are pretty common at gun shows. If the chrysanthemum is ground away, the rifle was surrendered at the end of hostilities; if intact, it was captured by force.
I am fortunate enough to have one of the Arisakas with the chrysanthemum still intact on the receiver. The collector will grimace here, because my 7.7 was tapped for a scope and carries a beautiful Monte Carlo walnut stock with an ebony forend tip. The front scope base sits right on the flower. The bolt handle was cut and re-attached. Because the head space was a little sloppy, the rifle was reconfigured into a wildcat-like cartridge, because one thread turn of the barrel was removed, which created a "7.7 JRE" requiring trimmed and formed Norma brass. The new cartridge is very formidable, as it has a few mule deer credited to it's history, but the rifle is now a safe queen for all practical purposes, residing with an intact '42 k98k, 2 similarly sporterized M1917 Enfields and a Nat Match Garand. Collect some, shoot some, want some. That StG44 is on my want list...
WAM, I'm well aware of the legal obstacles that can get in the way of Canadians wishing to purchase guns in the US. Watched some poor guy from Lethbridge cry like a baby at the gun counter in Havre this fall when they wouldn't even talk to him about purchasing a pistol. Pistols can be purchased up here but they are awful expensive and not a lot to pick from. As I'm sure you know, it's legally complicated storing and using one so I didn't bother bringing mine up when I emigrated back in 1989. Can't hunt with them so what's the point? Perhaps because I'm still a US citizen it might still be possible to purchase without difficulty? Not really interested in picking up any more guns anyway.
@Carl Huber
"Too bad the only civilian version only comes in 22 rim fire. If they made it in a more powerful caliber I would definitely buy one."
If you think they're only available as .22s, then your trying to buy one from the wrong people.
hza-kulmbach.de
under products BD44
My question is why would this woman so easily give up something that was passed down to her by her father? I can't imagine anything more disrespectful to her fathers memory. He undoubtedly went through quite a bit of effort to bring this thing back, and she was willing to just scrap it. Now she's going to sell it and get a boatload of money that she truly doesn't deserve. Stinking ingrate, I wish the cops would've kept it.
i have a box of 20 hornady hollow points for one of these i was getting bullets for a mauser and this is what the pawn shop ordered. to bad for no refunds or returns. so if anybody wants a box of bullets for a rifle like that ive got one
Hi Phil. One and the same. Happy Holiday's. Glad you are taking some Roosters!
very interesting story and a good example of making sure you know everything you can about any gun you own
I would have just gave her the $100 bucks and kept it. If all it was to her was to her was a criminals tool. To me just being able to hold the grip on such a gun would walk you through the history of the weapon and those who carried it before. Those officers' deserve a pat on the back for being honest and another pat on the back for knowing what it was. Surely saving it from the scrap heap a piece of history lost forever. Great story Phil.
I would have just gave her the $100 bucks and kept it. If all it was to her was to her was a criminals tool. To me just being able to hold the grip on such a gun would walk you through the history of the weapon and those who carried it before. Those officers' deserve a pat on the back for being honest and another pat on the back for knowing what it was. Surely saving it from the scrap heap a piece of history lost forever. Great story Phil.
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