Please Sign In

Please enter a valid username and password
  • Log in with Facebook
» Not a member? Take a moment to register
» Forgot Username or Password

Why Register?
Signing up could earn you gear (click here to learn how)! It also keeps offensive content off our site.

The Mighty Mosin Nagant

Recent Comments

Categories

Recent Posts

Archives

Syndicate

Google Reader or Homepage
Add to My Yahoo!
Add to My AOL

The Gun Nuts
in your Inbox

Enter your email address to get our new post everyday.

August 07, 2013

The Mighty Mosin Nagant

By David E. Petzal

As anyone with the wits to say “powerful assault weapon” knows, the Kalashnikov is the most successful military small arm of all time, with over 100 million produced since its introduction in 1947.

But what’s number two? Is it the Lee-Enfield, which had an active-duty life of over 60 years? The Model 98K Mauser, which percolated all over the world and served for more than five decades? The answer is a resounding “neither.” It’s the unlovely Mosin-Nagant, whose numbers are simply staggering.

The joint design of Captain Sergei Mosin of the Russian Imperial Army and the Belgian designer Leon Nagant, it was first issued to Russian troops in 1891. Since then, there have been 37 million made in the Soviet Union and Russia alone, plus many more turned out in other countries, including the U.S. And it’s still in production. The Mosin has been used in 30 wars, and counting. Only the AK-47 exceeds it, and nothing else comes close to equaling it.

The Mosin is an unlovely rifle, even by military standards, but it has formidable virtues. Like all Russian/Soviet small arms, it can be turned out cheaply and in huge numbers. It’s incredibly durable, requires little maintenance, is simple to operate, and is surprisingly accurate. You could put a Mosin into the hands of a Soviet peasant freshly yanked from his collective farm, give him little or no training in its use, (but give him a bayonet) and send him off to die, serene in the knowledge that he could do a great deal of damage before he gave up his life for the Rodina.

Or you could mount a 3.5X fixed-focus PU scope on a Mosin, put it in the hands of a sniper like Vasiliy Zaitsev, and watch him make the landsers creep and crawl to stay alive. (Zaitsev, a Siberian hunter and marksman who peed icewater, killed more than 500 Germans, including 11 Wehrmacht snipers, and made several shots at 1,000 meters.)

There were eight variants of the Mosin, including a long rifle, several carbines, and a sniper version. The standard barrel was 29 inches long; the carbine 20.2. The Mosin weighed 9 pounds or a shade less and could be either single-loaded or fed 5 rounds from a stripper clip. Effective range was listed as 500 meters, but the rear ladder sight was calibrated  to 2,000 meters. Some Mosins were given a “battle sight zero” at the factory so that the soldier who was issued it could use the gun at short range without having to sight it in.

Part of the Mosin’s effectiveness was due to its cartridge, the 7.62x54R. It employed a rimmed case, which was and is rare for a military round, but it was extremely advanced for 1891, firing a 150-grain bullet at 2,800 fps. The United States at that time was armed mainly with the .45/70, and would not develop a comparable load until 1906, when it modified the .30/03 cartridge into the .30/06.

Today, while you never see Springfield 03s or a Lee-Enfields sold in numbers and even Mausers are getting scarce, the Moisin is readily available, and if you are offended by its wooden stock, which is likely to be highly worn, you can buy a synthetic drop-in replacement. The rifle will need a trigger job, and a scope sight will help a lot, but it will still be one of the principal small arms that killed eight of 10 German soldiers in World War II. And although you will never know the name of the soldier to whom it was issued, it will serve you just as well as it did him.

Comments (46)

Top Rated
All Comments
from Treestand wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

The Mosin/Nagant is good for a young Person who is on a limited Budget of $100 or less first time White Tail Rifle,but NOT of the Quality of the U.S.Springfield 03 or 03A3 or the Lee-Enfield more on the level of the Italian Carcano. With Modern Day Hunting Ammo, One should achieve his/her Goal.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from schizuki wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Mosins bolts are smooth like butter. People who disparage this rifle are sadly mistaken. Well, not so sadly, since it means more for the rest of us. I've got three - a beater arsenal refurb M91/30, an unissued M44 Polish-made carbine that somehow escaped being importer-marked, and a Finn-captured M91/30 hex receiver (my favorite - captured during the Continuation War with the Soviet Union from 1941-1944. I wish it could talk).

Is rifle. Is shoot.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Safado wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Unlovely is an understatement. Just my opinion but there is no room in the vault for something that looks that ugly.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from troll53 wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

The Finns captured thousands of Mosin rifles then rebuilt them. I have a model 39 that was originally made in 1896 that was rebarreled by Sako in the 1940's. It will out shoot my Remington 700 and yours, too.

Even with cheap, plentiful Russian surplus ammo, it prints a big raggedy hole.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from troll53 wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

The Finns captured thousands of Mosin rifles then rebuilt them. I have a model 39 that was originally made in 1896 that was rebarreled by Sako in the 1940's. It will out shoot my Remington 700 and yours, too.

Even with cheap, plentiful Russian surplus ammo, it prints a big raggedy hole.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Interesting info, but still one ugly rifle!

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from RJ Arena wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Thanks Dave, for the history lesson. I have seen many rifles less attractive that not contributed as much to the world of shooting. I have no need for another rifle(like that has ever stopped me before) I think I will pick one up.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Buckshott00 wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Mighty? Maybe... depends on which variant you got/put together from a heap of left over parts. Sure they can be custom rebuilt, but how does that make them still Mosins?

Ruskies seem to favor quantity over quality. Mosins and AK's My $0.02

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Del in KS wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Having carried military weapons for 20 years in the service of my country I have no use for one now.
BTW there is a very good movie about Zaitsev called "Enemy at the Gate" staring Jude Law.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

The two main battle rifles of WW2 that used antiquated rimmed cartridges, the Lee-Enfield and the Mosin-Nagant, sported tiny extractors compared to the Mauser. You can even say the Mosin-Nagant is a "push feed". The two also happen to be the most proven reliable bolt action rifles ever used in military service, having served in more kinds of "adverse" conditions than the Mauser. The Mosin-Nagant's clips can also be loaded with ammo without the special sequence ("over and under") required for the Lee-Enfield's clips. That gives the Mosin-Nagant an edge. (I know there are YouTube videos showing that the Lee-Enfield clip can be loaded in the much easier "rim always forward of the previous one" manner, but the "over and under" sequence was part of British manual of arms, and thus, added to the stuff the soldier had to remember and master.)

Yup, they are also rather homely. OK, ugly is ugly. The Mosin-Nagant's safety, which involves turning the cocking piece, is also inconvenient to use, but at least you can plainly see that it is deployed and working! It's not a bug, it's a feature LOL!

The 7.62x54R still serves in the militaries of Russia and other nations, as both a sniper round (Dragunov SVD, Romanian PSL) and a machinegun round (the PK series, plus those surplus Guryonovs still seeing use in Afghanistan). It was the original short-fat, being wider in girth than the .303 and .30 Krag. Since 1891, it has been in service for 122 years. For a round that started with black powder, that is simply amazing. Its performance with modern powders is nothing to sniff at, even if you factor in the longer Russian barrels, it is still comparable to the .308 Winchester and mil-spec (Garand) .30-06.

Simo Hayha, the Finnish sniper acknowledged as the most prolific in history, used a short variant against the Soviets during the Winter War (he was a small guy). It was a regular service rifle, no optics, noted only for its better than average accuracy. Hayha killed more than 500 Russians with it, plus 200 more with the Suomi submachinegun. They're all credited as sniper kills, BTW, because Hayha's tactics defined what sniping was, not his equipment. Sobering thought for today's equipment-crazy sniper community, huh? Hayha didn't wear any Ghillie suit, either. Snow and stalking techniques were his camouflage. They called him The White Death.

With Simo Hayha, and Vasily Zaitsev and Lyudmila Pavlichenko, you have 3 of the greatest snipers of WW2 (and with Lyudmilla Pavlichenko, arguably the greatest female sniper of all time), all armed with the same rifle type. The rifle will shoot.

Dave Emary of Hornady and Mike Venturino of that other publication actually tested sniper rifles from WW2, plus a Gibbs reproduction Springfield 1903A4, using period optics and ammo. Which was the winner? The one least expected by the testers, the Mosin-Nagant. Never judge a rifle by its looks never sounded truer. Dave Emary hit a gong 4 out of 5 from 1,000 yards. Again, with period-correct ammo and the 4x Russian scope. It's in another publication (ST) if you want to check it out. The only way the Springfield could equal the Mosin-Nagant was by using modern (Black Hills) ammunition.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

*should be 3.5x Russian scope. Sorry Dave.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Schizuki is right about Mosin Nagant actions being smooth as butter. I picked up a Model 91/30 from Cabelas a couple of years ago when they put them on sale for the grand sum of $89.99. It was the second or third time Cabelas had offered them at that price, and I finally decided it was stupid to let any centerfire rifle slip by for so little money. I arranged the sale over the phone and told the sales guy to pick me a good one, and he sure did. Stock was in great shape and the bore about as good as they come, but I was genuinely shocked by how slickly that action operated.
Like most military rifles in military configuration they are indeed ugly, but there also is beauty to be found in function, and as DEP points out the Mosin has proven itself on battle fields around the world. Surplus ammo is also dirt cheap and decent sporting ammo is readily available. You'll need a really long cleaning rod but it does make a pretty good hog rifle and it's fun to shoot at the range. Incidentally, they had a big selection of Mosin-Nagants when I stopped by Cabelas last Saturday, and the price tag is now $170. Glad I bought mine when I did...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from danspontgp wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Have to agree, they are one ugly s.o.b.. However with a small amount of money invested they can look as good as a modern rifle. I own both a 91/30 Sniper & a M44 Carbine. Have modified both with a bent bolt & a synthetic Sporter stock. Both the bolt & stock upgrades are inexpensive & a D.Y.I. kind of person can do it. I also drilled & tapped the receiver on the 91/30 to accept a scope & mount. Love my 91/30 it shoots like a dream. The M44 carbine has way too much muzzle blast for my liking, but it has taken down a couple of MN White tail. Have to say the carbine works good in the brush.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from the goat wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

I don't know about you guys.....but mine KICKS LIKE A MULE with the military steel core ammo, but I still love shooting it and is accurate as heck. Killing stationary clays at 600 yrds. One mean shooter I tell ya.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from SL wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Great to see DP do a write-up on this proven warhorse! I too bought one from Cabelas last year. For the money I could not pass it up. I was not disappointed in the least. After getting the globs of cosmoline off of it, the bore looked like brand new. The accuracy I have gotten is pretty impressive too. Maybe not as accurate as a current day bolt action, but they will shoot minute of man for sure. You will not get to shoot a similar potent caliber as the 7.62X54 for anywhere near as cheap as you will this caliber. I would not hesitate to take this gun deer hunting either. Packs plenty of punch, way more than the piddly .223 that many AR shooters think is an adequate deer gun. I highly recommend this gun as a rugged, beater bolt-action that one can still get fairly inexpensive ammo for!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

As a battle rifle, it sure makes an excellent bayonet handle.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mark-1 wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

There is a bunch of Sunday shooters in NYS Finger Lakes who love to shoot old military bolt actions at targets. They love these Mosin-Nagants.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from sarg wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Well treestand, I'm neither young or Financialy impared but I like my M/N. Not my favorite rifle but something to play with.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from sarg wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Well treestand, I'm neither young or Financialy impared but I like my M/N. Not my favorite rifle but something to play with.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MJC wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

I've very seriously considered picking up a M/N and sporterizing it. You can get nice stocks for it, scope it out, fix the trigger... but what's stopped me is the safety. I haven't found anything that converts it to a more modern safety, and the one it comes with is pretty clunky. Not the sort of thing you gently ease off while you've got a deer in your sights.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Marion Johnson wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

I always considered the M-N ugly but compared to the M 16, not so much,

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from schizuki wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Damn, you, Petzal. I've got three already, and you put a bug in my ear. Stopped at Cabela's at lunch and spied a 1925-dated hex receiver. Now I've got four.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from ffsnuffy wrote 36 weeks 20 hours ago

A great rifle and very affordable!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tim Platt wrote 36 weeks 19 hours ago

I can't find any cheap 7.62X54R ammo online. $300 for 500 rounds. I guess they used to sell 440 rounds for $90 but everyone is out of stock on that particular item. I can still get 500 .223's for $125. Really before you even think about buying a gun these days your first thought should be can I get any ammo for it. Sad but true.

I worked for a guy today that lived outside of Murfreesboro, TN. and he started talking about leaving to go pick up a 10/22 that would shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards for $500 and I thought yeah right. He also mentioned the Kalishnakov was introduced in 1947 and was the most popular military rifle of all time which I also had never heard and still can't find any proof of, but at least now two people have told me that today.

I finally asked this guy what he did for a living because he had so many extravagant rifles in a modest house and crazy stories and he told me he had worked for Ronnie Barrett for over 25 years. Says he has shot over 30,000 rounds of .50 BMG out of a bolt action rifle. I found it very interesting. Actually the most useful information I got was that I should use Lapua Midas+ .22's and get a barrel for my 10/22 from a friend of his. I am taking his advice.

I have shot a Nagant and find them incredibly ugly and awkward and don't understand why they don't hold 30 rounds, but yeah I think the gun was more accurate than I am. No reason not to have three that I can think of, as long as you can find something to shoot out of them.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 36 weeks 18 hours ago

I always thought the MN was no beauty but is it any uglier than a Lee Enfield? And I agree, ugly as they might be, there's no comparison to an AR platform which are just plain hideous. I also always thought the MN was a useless club like some of the Japanese, Italian, and Chinese junk cranked out during WWII. Very surprised to learn they are not. Thanks for the info guys.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from John Nixdorf wrote 36 weeks 16 hours ago

I have a postwar Polish "Circle 11" M44, made in 1952, never issued or seriously used. It shoots great, and I only ever shoot new winchester 7.62x54mmr in it. Since it's accurate and in great shape, I bought an aftermarket synthetic Archangel stock and when I get time, I'll be switching it over. Neat thing about the Archangel stock is that you can use a 5 or 10 round magazine with the Mosin, and you can mount a scope easier.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 36 weeks 14 hours ago

WA Mtnhunter,
Given who was using the M-N the past few decades I wish it had only been useful for a bayonet holder. Unfortunately it's been used effectively against American and NATO troops for a long time and my understanding is that it's still being used by some insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq. Plenty of former Soviet client states still keep them around, too. I also seem to recall that the Russians actually won some kind of fairly prestigious long range international shooting event back in the 50s using Mosin-Nagants; besting American shooters armed with Springfields.
Don't get me wrong -- the Springfield is by far the superior rifle, as if of course the Mauser '98, and for my money at least, the Lee Enfield. But the Mosin-Nagant is still a rugged, dependable rifle that has been used to great effect over many, many years in war, including by snipers.
It also cleans up pretty well with a sporterized stock, although I've chosen to keep mine in military configuration. It does kick like a brass mule but I replaced the butt plate with a ready-fit recoil pad and that helped a bunch. The only really bad thing about them is the sights. I can barely see that thin front post sitting 30" away. Had to whiten it just to be able to pick it up.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from nc30-06 wrote 36 weeks 8 hours ago

I may have to see if I can find a deal on one of these.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 36 weeks 6 hours ago

Mind you, I have never shot one of these but a few observations. Though the action on M-N may be smooth as silk, I'm thinking they still were not a terribly fast shooting rifle. Requires quite a leap from the trigger to that forward mounted bolt. And, of course, the straight handle only increases the reach and slows down reloading. It's more than ugly, it's unhandy. I never could figure out why so many military gun designers were so slow to adapt the bent bolt. The two calibers the M-S were offered in seem to be surprisingly useful, especially for rimmed cartridges. Considering the number of flopped military cartridge designs during it's long durable lifetime, that in itself speaks volumes about the quality of the original M-N design.

Speaking flops, the Caracano comes instantly to mind. How in the world did Oswald hit Kennedy and Conally shooting that bona fide piece of crap gun and notoriously unpredictable and gutless military ammo DOWNWARD from a sixth story window at a moving target? He only missed one out of three shots yet weeks before he couldn't hit General Walker through his dining room window at less than 100 feet? I was only a kid in the sixth grade at the time but I knew something smelled real fishy about the Kennedy assassination scenario. I have to also wonder why Oswald, who was fired from one job because he spent too much time loafing and reading gun magazines (no kidding!) didn't know enough to avoid the Caracano (which every gun writer at that time no doubt agreed was about the worst choice for a sniper rifle) and instead pick up a sniper quality M-N which probably was as cheap and as easy to find. It's all the more baffling that he didn't choose a M-N since he was such a Russian commie-phobe anyway. Maybe the POC scope on the Caracano is what sold him on that model? Still, to make that gun and ammo work for that particular situation the way he supposedly did seems quite improbable to me.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 36 weeks 5 hours ago

Ontario Honker,
As you say, any straight bolt is a bit unhandy but I really haven't had any trouble cycling the action and getting off a quick shot with my 91/30. Also as you noted, the M-N is not the only military rifle sporting a straight bolt. One of the first things anyone sporterizing a Mauser back in the day needed to do was have the bolt bent for scope use. That was usually followed by a new safety and a trigger job. Cheaper than Dirt has a page on "Modernizing and Accessorizing the Mosin-Nagant" which includes info on their bolt kits, scope mounts and drop-in stocks, and Midway USA and Brownell's also carry a pretty complete line of products for upgrading Mosin-Nagants.
As for the Carcano and Kennedy, my mother used to work in that book depository building and the difficulty of making that shot has been highly exaggerated. It is not all that far and the car was moving at a snail's pace. In fact, Oswald got off more than one shot but only made one fatal hit. My dad also owned a Carcano that he occasionally used for deer hunting on paper company land in the piney woods of East Texas. It is certainly not the greatest military rifle in the world, but back then you could buy them mail order for about $12 so there were a lot of them sold and in use. He had no problem shooting a three-shot group of 2-3 inches at 100 yards using open sights. I've never fully accepted the official version of events on the Kennedy assassination -- I've always believed the mob had a hand in it -- but don't let the virulent conspiratorialists lead you astray. There was nothing impossible about that shot.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from SL wrote 36 weeks 4 hours ago

Maybe the mystery guy on the grassy knoll had a Mosin?? LOL Since Oswald was a commie sympathizer it would only make sense.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from schizuki wrote 36 weeks 4 hours ago

Someone needs to explain to me what makes the Carcano a "piece of crap." I mean facts, not gun-shop lore.

And speaking of "pieces of crap", the last Arisakas were dodgy to say the least, but an early, mid or pre-war example is a superb rifle, probably the best of the Mauser derivatives.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Whit Johnstone wrote 36 weeks 2 hours ago

The Mosin is not as good as the Mauser, Springfield, or Lee-Enfield, but it is a considerably better rifle then the Carcano, for two reasons. The first is that it uses a during WWII up to date round with a spitzer bullet. In fact the 7.62x54r is so good that the Russian military still uses it in its sniper rifles and light and general purpose machine guns. In addition, Mannilicher clips are essential to loading the Carcano, while the Mosin-Nagant can easily be loaded one round at a time, stripper clips being a convenience.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 36 weeks 1 hour ago

Shizuki: The Finns were outfitted with Caracanos during their winter wars with the Russians. They threw them away and picked up any M-N they could from the enemies. It seems everyone that bought into the Caracano was soon sorry for it. The Germans scarfed up all of them they could when Italy fell but only issued them to kids and old people - the German home guard who weren't expected to live five minutes in real combat anyway. From what I have read those military rounds that Oswald used were mostly responsible for the gun's bad reputation. I think any idiot could look at those rounds and see that they could not be accurate (bullets were WAY too long). Their elongation was complicated by consistent inconsistencies in the powder and loading of the cartridges. In battle situations the Caracano had a reputation for not hitting the proverbial broadside of a barn.

Besides the crappy rounds/gun Oswald used, I see the biggest problem with the book depository scenario is his shooting from the sixth floor using a very low velocity, overweight, overly elongated, lobbing trajectory bullet. How would he even know where the bullet would hit? The trajectory would be drastically effected by change in gravity shooting downhill like that. Also he puts one round in the ground somewhere (a piece of shattered "curbstone" wounded a bystander) but the other two somehow find their way right smack into the vitals of both Kennedy and Conally? Oswald couldn't even hit the car and then nails Kennedy in the neck and head with the next two rounds? That's some absurdly inconsistent shooting. Something wrong with that picture if you ask me. The presidential limo was not speeding but it wasn't moving at a snail's pace either. That would be some really tough shooting for a very fine, flat-shooting rifle. I find it hard to believe that even an expert who spent a lot of time at the range and who actually took the time to sight that POC in for an elevated shot could still make it. So, couldn't Oswald have made himself an expert practicing with that gun? That would have been rather difficult for a guy who DIDN'T DRIVE. I'm sure he could get on a Dallas bus with a gun and ride out the country, find a sixth story perch, somehow construct a moving target, and prepare himself for this very difficult assassination attempt. Pffft! I believe that Oswald THOUGHT he was going to kill the president or maybe even just scare the crap out of him like he did General Edwin Walker. However, I have to believe someone else actually shot the president. If Kennedy had been hit ONCE with that POC Caracano, I would probably be willing to blow it off as a lucky shot. But he connected TWICE. At a moving target that was very small (Kennedy's head). And Oswald was using a scope of almost no magnitude power and a gun/round that would have been one of the poorest choices for a sniper gun in the world. He missed the car entirely and hit the ground. With that skinny scope would he have even been able to see where the missed round hit and make adjustments? Even if he did, could he have made the guesstimate "adjustments" necessary to make neck/head shots on a moving target? Boys, that's a lot of mighty slim "ifs".

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 35 weeks 6 days ago

Ontario Honker,
I'll give you credit; you don't let facts stand in the way of your theories. As far as the ammo Oswald used, it was Western Cartridge Co. ammunition loaded with the 160 gr. RN bullet, and Western Cartridge Co. turned out pretty good stuff. Jack O'Connor shot a lot of that brand in Arizona. The gun was wearing a 4X scope and when the FBI checked it out with the same kind of ammo they got consistent 3-5 inch groups at 100 yards. Not minute of angle, but certainly minute of head.
When I said JFK's car was moving at a "snail's pace," I didn't literally mean at the speed of a snail. I meant it was part of a parade procession and was moving slowly enough for Secret Service agents to keep up on foot.
The sixth floor window of the old Book Depository building is somewhere between 70 and 90 feet high, which is not exactly nosebleed territory, and the lateral distance of the three shots was from less than 60 yards to a shade over 80 yards. I've never claimed to be and nobody has ever accused me of being the best shot in the world, but I've taken down a fair number of running whitetails in west Texas canyon country that were farther away and at a steeper angle than Kennedy was from Oswald. And they weren't just moving faster than JFK's car -- they were bouncing up and down. I also got to be a pretty fair hand at hitting running jackrabbits out of the back of a moving pickup truck at night. Oswald was an ex-marine who twice qualified for sharpshooter status; scoring 48 and 49 out of a possible 50 at 200 yards. I'd say he was perfectly capable of taking a solid rest and hitting a couple of people no more than 83 yards away, moving on a smooth surface at walking speed. CBS had 11 shooters take the same shots from the same elevation and distance with the same model rifle and all but one scored two out of three hits in the allotted time. The other guy scored all three times. As for the shot at Walker, the bullet got deflected by the window frame. Besides, just because a guy misses one easy shot doesn't mean he can't make a more difficult one. I've also, I'm ashamed to admit, missed a turkey with a shotgun from 20 yards away. I haven't missed one since then.
I don't know how we even got off on this Carcano-Kennedy business, since today's post was about the Mosin-Nagant, but I suppose JFK assassination theories just never go away. I also agree there are still unanswered questions. But to say that there was anything magical about those shots, or that the old Carcano was incapable of getting the job done, is just wrong. As to why Oswald chose the Carcano, it was probably for the same reason everybody else did. It was cheap and he didn't have much money, so $19.95 for a scoped rifle probably looked pretty good to him.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from chiefbuck wrote 35 weeks 6 days ago

RE: Arisaka 99 Japanese WWII rifles. They had chrome bores and a very strong action which was a simplified Mauser type. Their safety although awkward to operate prevented pierced primers from hitting the rifleman's eye. I saw a safety replacement kit at a gun show and regret not buying it. I like the Japanese rifles and the British .303 and regret not buying a five round magazine at another gun show. However I did take the recommendation of the "Guru" and bought a Ruger American, If I wasn't married to the same girl for 49 years, I'd try to marry the Ruger American. I also have a few Nagants and several versions of the Japanese 7.7 and 6.5.
I did use one of the kits to mount a scope and change the bolt handle, I had to have a pro weld the bolt handle on because I could not drill the bolt steel. One of the many WWII rifles not in my collection is the Carcano. Could have bought one for $5 and declined.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckstopper wrote 35 weeks 6 days ago

The new "revelation" now about the Kennedy assassination is that the fatal shot shot came from an accidental discharge from a Secret Service agents rifle in a trailing car during the ensuing commotion after the initial shots from Oswald. It would account for the seamingly low trajectory of the fatal shot as seen in the live footage of film. Documentary coming out soon.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 35 weeks 5 days ago

It's that time again for you Nitro Heads!

A very long internet classic:

AR15: You can pick off prairie dogs at 300 meters all day long
AK47: You can pick off a deer pretty easy at 300 meters
Mosin-Nagant: You get out of your truck, see an elk on top of a hill, and realize you really can use iron sights that far.

AR15: You measure your misses by sub MOA measurements
AK47: You miss and, and aim a bit lower this time.
Mosin-Nagant: Even if you miss the shockwave of the bullet will kill the animal.

AR15: You are careful to keep in clean in the field.
AK47: You don’t worry so much about some dirt getting in it.
Mosin-Nagant: It still has gritty grease inside it from when the Finnish army put it into storage.

AR15: Your bayonet will do an alright job of butchering your kill if needed.
AK47: The bayonet doubles as a decent hunting knife.
Mosin-Nagant: Your bayonet can be used to spit roast an entire pig.

AR15: Nice and light for carrying over obstructions.
AK47: Handy package for carrying over obstructions.
Mosin-Nagant: You can pole vault over obstructions.

AR15: Can’t run dry or you get seizure.
AK47: Can run dry, but may cause laquered ammo to stick in chamber.
Mosin-Nagant: Just handling the bolt gives it enough oil to operate smoothly.

Lots more after the break!

What your wife does after she finds out you spent the tax refund / stimulus payment on a -

AR15: She yells at you for spending the whole thing on a plastic varmint rifle.
AK47: She is disappointed at what an ugly rifle you spent half of it on.
Mosin-Nagant: She doesn’t even notice the Mosin-Nagant because of the diamond ring you got her with all the left over cash.

AR15: Melts IN the fire
AK47: Starts ON fire
Mosin-Nagant: Starts THE fire

AR15: With a custom barrel, Varmint Scope, and gunsmith trigger job, you can vaporize prairie dogs at 600 yards.
AK47: With a good rain, you can wait hidden in the mud at the side of a watering hole and wait for the game to come to you for a shot within 10 yards.
Mosin-Nagant: With a solid shooting position, you can hit that deer on the other side of the valley… and recover the bullet in the tree it was standing in front of.

AR15: You can buy 100 round magazines that require dry-carbon lubricant.
AK47: You can do push-ups on your 30 round steel mag (Saw this in a SPETSNATZ documentary).
Mosin-Nagant: You can use the buttstock to pound in a tent stake and if you don’t have tent stakes, the bayonet will work as one.

AR-15: Carried by elite special forces and highly-trained American soldiers
AK-47: Carried by illiterate peons and unwilling conscripts.
Mosin-Nagant-Nagant: Carried by Vassily Zaitsev.

AR15: Might just stop that charging terrorist with a three round burst
AK47: Would stop the terrorist in his tracks
Mosin-Nagant: Would stop the charging terrorist, his three buddies, and blow up the IED in the next block from the shockwave of the bullet…

AR15: Shoots a .22.
AK47: Shoots a carbine round.
Mosin-Nagant: Shoots a cannonball.

AR15: Shot by the free world
AK47: Shot at the free world
Mosin-Nagant: Almost free to shoot

AR15: Shoot it in the air it goes a mile
AK47: Shoot it in the air it goes 1/2 a mile
Mosin-Nagant: Shoot it in the air and someone in Berlin gets hit by a bullet.

AR15: Made out of used cars and recycled milk jugs
AK47: Made out of oil rigs and packing crates
Mosin-Nagant: Made out of old water pipe and goat carts

AR15: Sounds like a pop gun
AK47: Sounds like a machine gun
Mosin-Nagant: Sounds like the Trinity Atomic Blast

AR15: Sometimes mistaken for a toy
AK47: Sometimes mistaken for random parts
Mosin-Nagant: Sometimes mistaken for an artillery piece, or an anti-aircraft gun

AR15: Pray (it works) and spray
AK47: Spray and pray(you hit something)
Mosin-Nagant: The hammer of God

AR15: Makes grown men laugh.
AK47: Makes grown men cry.
Mosin-Nagant: Makes grown men incontinent.

AR15: Finicky when dirty.
AK47: Still works when dirty.
Mosin-Nagant: Arrives Dirty from the Distributor.

AR15: Don’t run over it…it will Break
AK47: Run over it, it still shoots.
Mosin-Nagant: Run over it and it will flatten your Tires!

AR15: Makes a Pop when fired
AK47: Makes a Boom when fired
Mosin-Nagant: What the hell was that ???

AR15: Ok, I got One!
AK47: Ok, I have 3 different ones.
Mosin-Nagant: Ok, I have Mosin-itis and have 14 and looking for More….

AR15: Makes a small hole in a tree
AK47: Makes a medium sized hole in a tree
Mosin-Nagant: Blows tree in half making firewood available.

AR15: Kills rabbits and coyotes
AK47: Kills pigs and small deer
Mosin-Nagant: If you can’t kill it with a Mosin-Nagant, it can’t be killed

AR15: Safe to stow in poly bags
AK47: Safe to stow in a rice paddy
Mosin-Nagant: Safe to stow in a landfill

AR15: 100 round beta c drum mags you can load with a speed loader
AK47: 75 round drum magazine you have to reload individually by pressing a lever
Mosin-Nagant: You can store 20 of them in a drum with about 1000 rounds on stripper clips

AR15: Has a nice Airsoft copy
AK47: Has a nice Airsoft copy
Mosin-Nagant: Who needs Airsoft when you can fire blanks.

AR15: Makes a nice paperweight
AK47: Makes a nice doorstop
Mosin-Nagant: Makes a nice baseball bat and way cheaper then aluminum

AR15: Loyal following of people that have more money than sense.
AK47: Loyal following of people that have a longer police record than the range of the rifle.
Mosin-Nagant: Loyal following of people that have more rounds of ammo than they got hairs on all family members’ heads combined.

AR-15: Your enemies will giggle
AK-47: Your enemies will take cover and swear as they ready their weapons
Mosin-Nagant: Your enemies will flatten themselves to the ground and offer up prayers of salvation to whatever god they believe in…then they will die.

AR-15: Drop it from ten feet and it shatters.
AK-47: Drop it from ten feet and it still works.
Mosin-Nagant: Drop it from ten feet and it’s more lethal than a lawn dart.

AR-15: You can melt it with a magnifying glass.
AK-47: Under a magnifying glass, you can see the ingrained dirt.
Mosin-Nagant: Under a magnifying glass, you can see the soaked-in BLOOD.

AR-15: Safe, Semiautomatic, Full-Auto (more like full-JAM)
AK-47: Safe(dubious), Semiautomatic, Full-Auto
Mosin-Nagant: Kill, Maim, Destroy

AR-15: When you run out of ammo, duck for cover and spend 15 minutes cleaning and reloading
AK-47: You could probably rig it up to fire chain-linked ammo
Mosin-Nagant: When you run out of ammo (never) you can shoot chaff and langrage from it (wikipedia that)

AR-15: My daddy bought me this weapon for my birthday
AK-47: I saved two weeks’ paychecks to buy this.
Mosin-Nagant: I think it was free…

AR-15: My rifle floated away in the flood
AK-47: My rifle was submerged for three weeks by the flood and still works
Mosin-Nagant: I fired my rifle and the flood waters parted…

AR15: You keep your bayonet in the kitchen because it is a good steak knife
AK47: You keep your bayonet in your toolbox because it is a good wire cutter
Mosin-Nagant: You no longer fix your bayonet in the house because the last time you did you poked a hole in the ceiling when you stood up

AR15: For $1000 you can get one
AK47: For $1000 you can get two and 300 rounds of ammo
Mosin-Nagant: For $1000 you can get 16 of them plus a Bulgarian armory’s worth of surplus ammo

AR15: Can start brush fires with incendiary ammunition.
AK47: Can start brush fires by dropping it after the handguard catches fire.
Mosin-Nagant: Can start brush fires by firing from anything lower than a kneeling position.

AR15: Built with custom parts, nice trigger, all the bells and whistles $1500+
AK47: Modified with aftermarket and 1,000 rounds of ammo not even $1500
Mosin-Nagant: Stock, with 1,000 rounds maybe $300, meaning you get $1200 to spend on more beer

AR15: Takes a few men out in a sweeper movement
AK47: Takes most men out in a sweeper movement
Mosin-Nagant: Shoot one the sonic boom will handle the rest

AR15: Used in negotiations
AK47: Reason for negotiations
Mosin-Nagant: Negotiator

AR15: I think I felt it kick
AK47: Kinda like a 20 guage
Mosin-Nagant: Dislocation
Mosin-Nagant with heavy ball: Where’s my freaking shoulder

AR15: Takes 3 rounds to take out your enemy
AK47: takes 30 rounds sprayed and hopefully you hit your target
Mosin-Nagant: 1 shot, 50 kills

AR15: More options than a custom Rolls-Royce. No two guns are alike.
AK47: Same number of options as a Toyota Corolla. Most guns look alike.
Mosin-Nagant: Options: You want a bayonet with that?

The limits of customizing a-
AR15: How much $ you got.
AK47: What you can find in the Tapco catalog.
Mosin-Nagant: How much duct tape Bubba’s got.

AR15: Such light recoil, you could put on over your balls and fire.
AK47: Recoil manageable enough for anyone to use it.
Mosin-Nagant: Recoil that registers as small tremors in the earth itself.

AR15: Bullet starts tumbling the moment it meets sufficient resistance, like paper
AK47: Bullet will continue trajectory until it hits something solid, like a deer
Mosin-Nagant: It keeps going and going and going….

AR15: You probably drive a Lexus
AK47: If you’re lucky to possess a vehicle, it’s referred to as a “Technical”
Mosin-Nagant: You hang truck-balls off your trailer hitch, and you’re proud of them.

AR15: Lots of fancy optics available
AK47: You can bolt some stuff to the side
Mosin-Nagant: Who cares about optics when the barrel is long enough to smack the enemy over the head without even leaving your foxhole.

AR15: Used by special forces to kill terrorists
AK47: Used by revolutionaries and any two bit nation’s illiterate conscripts to kill each other
Mosin-Nagant: Used by Simo Häyhä to kill Russian conscripts

AR15: Requires over 1000 rounds to break in
AK47: May need some breaking in
Mosin-Nagant: The stripper clips require more breaking in

AR15: Can take down smaller sized game.
AK47: Can take down average sized game.
Mosin-Nagant: Can take down satellites.

AR15: Invented 50 years ago by a consummate engineer
AK47: Invented 60 years ago by wounded tank sergeant
Mosin-Nagant: Invented 117 years ago by two drunks on a budget.

AR15: Star wars
AK47: Holy wars
Mosin-Nagant: Class wars

AR15: Makes small holes
AK47: Makes big holes
Mosin-Nagant: Makes black holes

AR15: Nice lightweight ammo can be carried in quantity.
AK47: You can carry a chest pouch with lots of mags with no problem.
Mosin-Nagant: Ammo is also used in tanks, and larger artillery pieces.

Domestic uses of the bayonet:
AR15: You affix it to your rifle and use it as a dibble to plant tulip bulbs in the garden.
AK47: You affix it to your rifle and use it to trim low-hanging tree branches.
Mosin-Nagant: You affix it to your rifle, accidentally stab it into the ceiling and bring down a square foot of plaster, and spend the next week sleeping on the couch because your wife is pissed off at you.

AR15: Comes in Pink Hello Kitty and Barbie
AK47: Comes in Pink Hello Kitty
Mosin-Nagant: What’s pink?

AR15: Iran-Contra was a cover-up
AK47: Afghanistan (1980) was a cover-up
Mosin-Nagant: Chernobyll was a cover-up

You call the thing with the ammo in it a “clip” and…
AR15: Your buddies glare at you and don’t speak to you for a month.
AK47: Your buddies smile at you with their gold teeth and “blast another cap.”
Mosin-Nagant: Your buddies smile at you because it’s one of the few times you all get to call something a “clip”… and be right.

AR15: Clean with fancy lubes and solvents with special tools.
AK47: Clean? In Soviet Russia AK clean you!
Mosin-Nagant: Squirt some Windex down the bore. Ready for another 500 rounds tomorrow!

AR15: You can be an expert with this rifle after basic training
AK47: You can be an expert with this rifle after a seminar at the Holiday Inn on AKs
Mosin-Nagant: You can be an expert with this rifle after spending 30 minutes on the internet reading forums, and watching youtube videos

AR15: Can shoot a squirrel and have a great meal
AK47: Can shoot a squirrel and have some meat left to eat.
Mosin-Nagant: There is a tail left around here somewhere.

AR15: Puts some countries air force to shame
AK47: Used by countries who can’t afford an air force
Mosin-Nagant: Could be used to take down an air force

AR15: Shoot one and you’ll be owning one soon!
AK47: Shoot one and you will buy some high capacity magazines and 1000 rounds of ammo
Mosin-Nagant: Shoot one and you will own 15 and want another!

AR15: Goes pew pew pew
AK47: Goes pow pow pow
Mosin-Nagant: Goes BOOOOOOOM!

AR15: Made by a stoned Eugene
AK47: Made by an injured Kalashnikov
Mosin-Nagant: Made by a drunken Belgian and a crazy Ivan

Owners drink of choice
AR15: Cognac
AK47: Malt liquor
Mosin-Nagant: Brake cleaner

AR15: Makes a tiny hole with no fragmentation or undue extra injury, in accordance with the Geneva Convention
AK47: Makes a big hole and sometimes flings severed body parts around, not in accordance with the Geneva Convention
Mosin-Nagant: One of the reasons the Geneva Convention was written

AR15: Can shoot it off your head and it won’t kill you
AK47: Shoot it off your head and you die
Mosin-Nagant: Shoot if from your shoulder and you need it popped back into place

AR15: Used to kill Enemies of the State.
AK47: Used by Enemies of the State.
Mosin-Nagant: Enemy at the Gates.

AR15: Good for shooting poodles.
AK47: Good for shooting enemies of the state
Mosin-Nagant: Good for shooting light armored vehicles

AR15: Keeps gunsmiths in business
AK47: Keeps drug dealers and terrorists in business
Mosin-Nagant: Keeps Chiropractors in business

AR15: Built like a Toy.
AK47: Built like a Sewing Machine.
Mosin-Nagant: Built like a Tank!

AR15: Too much Plastic.
AK47: Too Much Sheet metal.
Mosin-Nagant: Too much of everything!

AR15: stays in the Vault.
AK47: not allowed in the vault.
Mosin-Nagant: Can be used to Pole Vault!

AR15: In your Heart you think it’s ugly.
AR15: In your Heart you know it’s ugly.
Mosin-Nagant: You’re afraid to call it ugly!

AR15: It doesn’t go anywhere near water… Unless you’re drinking Evian
AK47: If water touches it, it would mistake it for a cleaning solvent and fall apart
Mosin-Nagant: Row-row-row your boat, gently down the Volga…

AR15: If it gets in the Mekong river, you need to clean it before firing.
AK47: If it gets in the Mekong river, shake the water out before firing.
Mosin-Nagant: Used as an oar to paddle up and down the Mekong river

AR15: Used to attack soldiers building a bridge across the Mekong
AK47: Used to protect soldiers building a bridge across the Mekong
Mosin-Nagant: Used to actually build the bridge across the Mekong.

AR15: Plastics make it possible
AK47: Sheet metal make it possible
Mosin-Nagant: Driftwood make it possible

AR15: Nice useful little round.
AK47: Very functional round.
Mosin-Nagant: Anti Tank Round

AR15: Useful against unarmored foe
AK47: Useful against armored foe
Mosin-Nagant: Useful against foe on the other side of the battlefield!

AR15: Useful for hosing down forward edge of the battle area…
AK47: Useful for hosing down sky over forward edge of the battle area…
Mosin-Nagant: Useful for hosing down rear of the battle area, enemy reserves and basic training camps at home…

AR15: Thousands of moving parts, held together by hundreds of bolts, screws, and precision welds.
AK47: Several dozen moving parts, held together by a few screws and some drunken Ivan’s light-sabering with an acetylene torch.
Mosin-Nagant: TWO MOVING PARTS. TWO SCREWS. .

AR15: Owner votes for John McCain
AK47: Owner prays for Barack Hussein Osama
Mosin-Nagant: Owner can overthrow the government no matter who becomes president.

AR15: One tenth the firepower at 10 times the price
AK47: Half the Firepower at twice the price
Mosin-Nagant: 10 times the firepower at one tenth the price

AR15: Turns little rocks into pebbles
AK47: Turns big rocks into little rocks
Mosin-Nagant: Makes molehills out of mountains

AR15: One inch groups at 100 yards.
AK47: Five to six inch groups at 100 yards.
Mosin-Nagant: Muzzle is one inch from target at 100 yards.

AR15: Designs drawn on blueprint paper by stoner and a team of experts in a R&D facility
AK47: Designs drawn on notebook paper by Kalashnikov in a Soviet hospital
Mosin-Nagant: Designs drawn on cocktail napkins by a drunken Sergei Mosin-Nagant in a bar

AR15: Clean with a bunch of cloths, patches, picks, brushes and don’t loose the small parts. Clean every 100 rounds.
AK47: Run a patch down the barrel, wipe out the chamber every few months.
Mosin-Nagant: Throw it in the dishwasher every couple years.

AR15: New shooters love it because of good ergonomics and light recoil.
AK47: New shooters love it because of light recoil.
Mosin-Nagant: New shooters required to sign a waiver-absolving owner of physical damage incurred from recoil

AR15: Usually equipped with flash hider to reduce muzzle flash.
AK47: Can be equipped with flash hider to reduce muzzle flash.
Mosin-Nagant: Muzzle flash can be used to summon the mother ship.

AR15: Can be used to defend home against crooks
AK47: Can be used to defend Oil Tanker against Pirates
Mosin-Nagant: Can Replace one of the Deck Guns on the Kirov Class Battle cruiser

AR-15: Defenders
AK-47: Invaders
Mosin-Nagant: Victors

AR15: High cost, high maintenance.
AK47: Low cost, low maintenance.
Mosin-Nagant: What are these cost and maintenance things you speak of?

AR15: Your rifle takes a few hours to sight in, starting at 50 yard and moving up to 200, making minute adjustments with a small screwdriver.
AK47: You slide your rear sight around until you hit the target.
Mosin-Nagant: You hit your rifle with a hammer to sight it.

AR15: Arm of the free world
AK47: Arm of everybody else
Mosin-Nagant: Arm of Chuck Norris

AR15: Politicians fear it.
AK47: Media fears it.
Mosin-Nagant: Zombies fear it!

At an indoor range.
AR15: Gets people’s attention because of it’s wonderful accuracy.
AK47: Gets people’s attention because of it’s rugged reliability.
Mosin-Nagant: Gets people’s attention because muzzle flash sets off sprinkler system!

As for accurizing.
AR15: You buy match grade components installed by professional gunsmith and spend thousands of dollars.
AK47: You buy GOOD ammo and optics and spend hundreds of dollars.
Mosin-Nagant: You use an empty soda can, some sand paper and spend seven bucks!

AR15: You can put one hole in a paper target at 100 meters with 30 rounds.
AK47: You can put a .30″ hole through 12″ of oak, if you can hit it.
Mosin-Nagant: You can knock down everyone else’s target with the shock wave of your bullet going downrange.

AR15: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a great whiffle bat.
AK47: When out of ammo your rifle will nominally pass as a club.
Mosin-Nagant: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.

AR15: What’s recoil?
AK47: Recoil is manageable, even fun.
Mosin-Nagant: Recoil is often used to relocate shoulders thrown out by the previous shot.

AR15: Your sight adjustment is incremented in fractions of minute of angle.
AK47: Your sight adjustment goes to “10″, and you’ve never bothered moving it.
Mosin-Nagant: Your sight adjustment goes to 12 miles and you’ve actually tried it.

AR15: After a day at the range, you detail strip your rifle and thoroughly clean and lubricate it with only the best products.
AK47: After a day of shooting out back you run a quick patch through the bore and throw your rifle in the back of your truck.
Mosin-Nagant: Cleaning….and maintenance?

AR15: Millennium Falcon
AK47: Star Destroyer
Mosin-Nagant: The Death Star

As for accessories.
AR15: You have a never ending list of high dollar tacticool accessories.
AK47: You have a never ending list of Chinese made tacticool accessories.
Mosin-Nagant: You have carry strap and ammo what more you need comrade?

AR15: Cost a lot of money
AK47: Cost some money
Mosin-Nagant: free with purchase of bayonet

AR15: Backordered.
AK47: Backordered.
Mosin-Nagant: Mail ordered.

AR15: When out of ammo you would rather die than risk damaging your $1200 rifle buy using it as a club.
AK47: When out of ammo your rifle makes a nice club.
Mosin-Nagant: Your rifle is a club that can shoot people.

AR15: When on patrol in Vietnam ammo is so light you can carry around 900 rounds of ammo with you.
AK47: When patrolling your warlord’s territory, you carry all the ammo you need in the back of a technical.
Mosin-Nagant: When sent to battle at Stalingrad you are only issued a stripper clip of ammunition and told that you would find your rifle laying on the ground.

AR15: Got it by joining army
AK47: Got it with one paycheck
Mosin-Nagant: Got it by saving beer cans

On prairie dogs:
AR15: You sit back with your buddies poopin them all day long 651hits 3 misses.
AK47: You and another person go to a dog-town fire 4,000 rounds and each get one be cause they were 8 feet away and deaf.
Mosin-Nagant: You go with 3 other people get the first shot at the first P-dog you see and wipe out the entire colony, leaving a crater that the people who find it claim was a meteor impact.

Regarding muzzle blast:
AR15: Makes a popping sound that is hardly noticed at a public range.
AK47: Makes a hearty boom that usually gets noticed at a public range.
Mosin-Nagant: Makes the Earth tremble and two guys in Bavaria look at each other and ask “vat da hell vas dat?!”

AR15: Looks like a toy
AK47: Looks cobbled together from spare parts
Mosin-Nagant: Looks like a Kentucky Musket of DOOM!

AR15: Sworn at by three generations of American soldiers and Marines
AK47: Brought back as a proof of kill by Carlos Hathcock
Mosin-Nagant: Carried by Samo Hayho, Vasili Ziatsev and feared on both sides of the battle line in the hands of snipers.

AR15: Flash suppressed, super stealthy
AK47: Why worry about stealth when you and your comrades can pour a wall of lead onto the enemy?
Mosin-Nagant: Blinds anybody within 150 meters who’s not wearing welding goggles.

AR15: Can use the bayonet to whittle
AK47: Can use the bayonet to kill an enemy or butcher food
Mosin-Nagant: Bayonet used to cut the sheet metal parts they use to make AR’s and AK’s

AR15: Underslung grenade launcher can take out a dug-in enemy at 300 meters
AK47: Underslung grenade launcher makes a lot of noise and a huge dirt crater
Mosin-Nagant: Who needs grenades when your bullets are so big they can kill tanks?

AR15: Inspired by science fiction
AK47: Inspired by a need for a reliable, selectable-fire weapon
Mosin-Nagant: Inspired by men with balls. Men with HUGE, HAIRY BALLS

AR15: Comprised of several hundred moving parts, usually falls victim to Murphy’s law
AK47: Comprised of as few moving parts as possible, almost impossible to break unless something goes REALLY REALLY WRONG (which might IMPROVE the accuracy)
Mosin-Nagant: Has only one moving part, is held together by only two screws, and damned well outshoots both of the above.

AR15: Rust is your mortal enemy, you clean your gun five times a day.
AK47: Rust might become a problem in a few years, you clean your gun once a month.
Mosin-Nagant: Rust makes your rifle look more authentic.

AR15: You clean your rifle with molecularly engineered precision $1000-ounce synthetic lubricant
AK47: WD-40 is acceptable
Mosin-Nagant: If everything else runs out you can clean your rifle with your own piss

With regard to sound volume:
AR15: Suitable for use with a sound suppressor because its tiny bullet is already quiet.
AK47: No need for a sound suppressor because the enemy will be flat on the ground with their hands over their ears, hiding from the sheer volume of fire.
Mosin-Nagant: You don’t need a sound suppressor, because after the first shot the enemy will be totally deaf anyway.

How long does it take to learn to care for your rifle?
AR15: It will take a drill sergeant about a week to teach you what you need to know about how to disassemble, reassemble and maintain your rifle.
AK47: A good gunnery sergeant can teach you how to care for one in about 4 hours.
Mosin-Nagant: You can learn how to take it apart and put it back together in about 15 minutes with the manual and a couple of YouTube videos in front of you.

AR15: Must be carefully cleaned every 100 rounds or so.
AK47: Only have to worry about cleaning if using Wolf ammo
Mosin-Nagant: Cleaning? Consists of getting liquored up on vodka and peeing down the barrel to get rid of corrosive salts from milsurp primers.

AR15: Opened by pushing 2 pins
AK47: Opened with a swift kick
Mosin-Nagant: Opened with a 2X4 and a ball peen hammer

AR15: Mostly made out of expensive polymers
AK47: Mostly made out of cheap stamped metal and particle board
Mosin-Nagant: Mostly made out of “whatever the f*ck the comrades could find lying around the People’s Factory”

AR15: can probably put together a nice one, due to the popularity of ownership, for under $1,000
AK47: Can probably get a decent one, or refurbished one, for under $500.
Mosin-Nagant: Can probably buy rifle, 440 rounds of ammo, and a case of Windex for under $200.

AR15: Won’t work unless you clean it every day
AK47: Should be cleaned at least once a year
Mosin-Nagant: Was last cleaned by a Russian conscript in Berlin in 1945

AR15: If the firing pin breaks you send it to the factory for repairs
AK47: If the firing pin breaks you buy a new one
Mosin-Nagant: If the firing pin breaks you just screw it deeper into the bolt

AR15: Your accessories cost more than the rifle
AK47: All your accessories cost around $300
Mosin-Nagant: All your accessories come free with the rifle

AR15: Accountant’s Rifle
AK47: Factory Worker’s Rifle
Mosin-Nagant: If you can fill out an application, you can probably already afford it

AR15: Tax return will get it
AK47: Tax return will get you 2 plus mags
Mosin-Nagant: Tax Return will get you a case plus enough ammo to last you till doomsday

AR15: Made when jet passenger flight was fairly regular
AK47: Made when knowing how to fly could make you an officer
Mosin-Nagant: Made when hot air balloons were considered the ultimate flight technology

AR15: Buttstock is collapsible, only used to aid in shooting the rifle
AK47: Buttstock is also good for knocking some oppressor’s teeth out
Mosin-Nagant: Buttstock is good for use as a sledgehammer, crutch, club, or boat oar

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 35 weeks 4 days ago

Clay,

that post of yours deserves a column of its own. Nice.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 35 weeks 4 days ago

O Garcia True, Very True, but I just had to do it!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from edalweber wrote 35 weeks 4 days ago

Actually a good, sturdy gun for general use,and of course noted for its accuracy.Get some Norma ammo and reload your cases,easy with a Lee Loader if nothing else.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 35 weeks 4 days ago

Tim Platt,
You said you were having trouble finding cheap 7.62x54R ammo anywhere. Don't know how long it will last but I got an email this morning from Sportsman's Guide listing 440 round tins of 147 gr. FMJ (corrosive primers). It's $85.49 for members and $89.99 for non-members. Also, ran a search at Ammo to Go and they're offering 440 round tins of military ammo for $104.95. They also have 20 rounds boxes of 174 gr. FMJ non-corrosive Brown Bear ($10.95), 182 gr. FMJ non-corrosive PRVI Partizan ($15.95) and 180 gr. FMJ non-corrosive Sellier & Bellot ($21.95). All of it was in stock at last check.
Changing subjects, I winced at several comments about the Lee Enfield being an ugly rifle. I'll go along with the idea that most military rifles are pretty ugly, but a nicely sporterized LE looks pretty good to my eyes, and some of the old Lee Speeds are very handsome rifles. My Savage-built No. 4 MK 1 wears a trim, decently figured Fajen stock, a low profile Weaver K3 and a red recoil pad with blackline spacer. I also picked up a four-round magazine that fits flush and does wonders for the rifle's profile. I wouldn't be ashamed to show up with it anywhere.
Also, schizuki is right on the mark about some of the Arisakas being superb rifles as long as you stay away from the ones issued late in the war. Same warning applies to most of the other rifles -- including Mausers -- issued by the Axis powers once they started going down for the count.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 35 weeks 2 days ago

If anyone's interested, Midway USA's "Gun Stories" program on the Outdoor Channel will be featuring the Mosin-Nagant on tomorrow's new episode. If anyone hasn't seen "Gun Stories" its hosted by Joe Mantegna and is really well done. it's one of the few outdoor-oriented TV programs ("Gun Nuts" being one of the others, of course)that I always try to catch.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Greg Hart wrote 35 weeks 2 days ago

Great article Dave. As the proud owner of a Mosin I enjoy reading everything I can on them. They are accurate, powerful and extremely affordable.
The Mosin is rugged, no frills weapon that is tough, reliable, and easy to use. That makes it beautiful in my book.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jim McKee wrote 27 weeks 3 days ago

We are the largest Mosin group on facebook . Give us a visit and join us if you like what you see . https://www.facebook.com/groups/41973201278/

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Greg Hart wrote 24 weeks 6 days ago

More than one person has commented on the unattractiveness of the Mosin, but these folks are misssing the point. The true beauty of the Mosin lies in it's functionality, longevity, and utilitarian design. The Mosin is powerful, accurate, and affordable, and I find these qualities to be very attractive.
GH1

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from schizuki wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Mosins bolts are smooth like butter. People who disparage this rifle are sadly mistaken. Well, not so sadly, since it means more for the rest of us. I've got three - a beater arsenal refurb M91/30, an unissued M44 Polish-made carbine that somehow escaped being importer-marked, and a Finn-captured M91/30 hex receiver (my favorite - captured during the Continuation War with the Soviet Union from 1941-1944. I wish it could talk).

Is rifle. Is shoot.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Treestand wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

The Mosin/Nagant is good for a young Person who is on a limited Budget of $100 or less first time White Tail Rifle,but NOT of the Quality of the U.S.Springfield 03 or 03A3 or the Lee-Enfield more on the level of the Italian Carcano. With Modern Day Hunting Ammo, One should achieve his/her Goal.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from troll53 wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

The Finns captured thousands of Mosin rifles then rebuilt them. I have a model 39 that was originally made in 1896 that was rebarreled by Sako in the 1940's. It will out shoot my Remington 700 and yours, too.

Even with cheap, plentiful Russian surplus ammo, it prints a big raggedy hole.

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Interesting info, but still one ugly rifle!

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 35 weeks 5 days ago

It's that time again for you Nitro Heads!

A very long internet classic:

AR15: You can pick off prairie dogs at 300 meters all day long
AK47: You can pick off a deer pretty easy at 300 meters
Mosin-Nagant: You get out of your truck, see an elk on top of a hill, and realize you really can use iron sights that far.

AR15: You measure your misses by sub MOA measurements
AK47: You miss and, and aim a bit lower this time.
Mosin-Nagant: Even if you miss the shockwave of the bullet will kill the animal.

AR15: You are careful to keep in clean in the field.
AK47: You don’t worry so much about some dirt getting in it.
Mosin-Nagant: It still has gritty grease inside it from when the Finnish army put it into storage.

AR15: Your bayonet will do an alright job of butchering your kill if needed.
AK47: The bayonet doubles as a decent hunting knife.
Mosin-Nagant: Your bayonet can be used to spit roast an entire pig.

AR15: Nice and light for carrying over obstructions.
AK47: Handy package for carrying over obstructions.
Mosin-Nagant: You can pole vault over obstructions.

AR15: Can’t run dry or you get seizure.
AK47: Can run dry, but may cause laquered ammo to stick in chamber.
Mosin-Nagant: Just handling the bolt gives it enough oil to operate smoothly.

Lots more after the break!

What your wife does after she finds out you spent the tax refund / stimulus payment on a -

AR15: She yells at you for spending the whole thing on a plastic varmint rifle.
AK47: She is disappointed at what an ugly rifle you spent half of it on.
Mosin-Nagant: She doesn’t even notice the Mosin-Nagant because of the diamond ring you got her with all the left over cash.

AR15: Melts IN the fire
AK47: Starts ON fire
Mosin-Nagant: Starts THE fire

AR15: With a custom barrel, Varmint Scope, and gunsmith trigger job, you can vaporize prairie dogs at 600 yards.
AK47: With a good rain, you can wait hidden in the mud at the side of a watering hole and wait for the game to come to you for a shot within 10 yards.
Mosin-Nagant: With a solid shooting position, you can hit that deer on the other side of the valley… and recover the bullet in the tree it was standing in front of.

AR15: You can buy 100 round magazines that require dry-carbon lubricant.
AK47: You can do push-ups on your 30 round steel mag (Saw this in a SPETSNATZ documentary).
Mosin-Nagant: You can use the buttstock to pound in a tent stake and if you don’t have tent stakes, the bayonet will work as one.

AR-15: Carried by elite special forces and highly-trained American soldiers
AK-47: Carried by illiterate peons and unwilling conscripts.
Mosin-Nagant-Nagant: Carried by Vassily Zaitsev.

AR15: Might just stop that charging terrorist with a three round burst
AK47: Would stop the terrorist in his tracks
Mosin-Nagant: Would stop the charging terrorist, his three buddies, and blow up the IED in the next block from the shockwave of the bullet…

AR15: Shoots a .22.
AK47: Shoots a carbine round.
Mosin-Nagant: Shoots a cannonball.

AR15: Shot by the free world
AK47: Shot at the free world
Mosin-Nagant: Almost free to shoot

AR15: Shoot it in the air it goes a mile
AK47: Shoot it in the air it goes 1/2 a mile
Mosin-Nagant: Shoot it in the air and someone in Berlin gets hit by a bullet.

AR15: Made out of used cars and recycled milk jugs
AK47: Made out of oil rigs and packing crates
Mosin-Nagant: Made out of old water pipe and goat carts

AR15: Sounds like a pop gun
AK47: Sounds like a machine gun
Mosin-Nagant: Sounds like the Trinity Atomic Blast

AR15: Sometimes mistaken for a toy
AK47: Sometimes mistaken for random parts
Mosin-Nagant: Sometimes mistaken for an artillery piece, or an anti-aircraft gun

AR15: Pray (it works) and spray
AK47: Spray and pray(you hit something)
Mosin-Nagant: The hammer of God

AR15: Makes grown men laugh.
AK47: Makes grown men cry.
Mosin-Nagant: Makes grown men incontinent.

AR15: Finicky when dirty.
AK47: Still works when dirty.
Mosin-Nagant: Arrives Dirty from the Distributor.

AR15: Don’t run over it…it will Break
AK47: Run over it, it still shoots.
Mosin-Nagant: Run over it and it will flatten your Tires!

AR15: Makes a Pop when fired
AK47: Makes a Boom when fired
Mosin-Nagant: What the hell was that ???

AR15: Ok, I got One!
AK47: Ok, I have 3 different ones.
Mosin-Nagant: Ok, I have Mosin-itis and have 14 and looking for More….

AR15: Makes a small hole in a tree
AK47: Makes a medium sized hole in a tree
Mosin-Nagant: Blows tree in half making firewood available.

AR15: Kills rabbits and coyotes
AK47: Kills pigs and small deer
Mosin-Nagant: If you can’t kill it with a Mosin-Nagant, it can’t be killed

AR15: Safe to stow in poly bags
AK47: Safe to stow in a rice paddy
Mosin-Nagant: Safe to stow in a landfill

AR15: 100 round beta c drum mags you can load with a speed loader
AK47: 75 round drum magazine you have to reload individually by pressing a lever
Mosin-Nagant: You can store 20 of them in a drum with about 1000 rounds on stripper clips

AR15: Has a nice Airsoft copy
AK47: Has a nice Airsoft copy
Mosin-Nagant: Who needs Airsoft when you can fire blanks.

AR15: Makes a nice paperweight
AK47: Makes a nice doorstop
Mosin-Nagant: Makes a nice baseball bat and way cheaper then aluminum

AR15: Loyal following of people that have more money than sense.
AK47: Loyal following of people that have a longer police record than the range of the rifle.
Mosin-Nagant: Loyal following of people that have more rounds of ammo than they got hairs on all family members’ heads combined.

AR-15: Your enemies will giggle
AK-47: Your enemies will take cover and swear as they ready their weapons
Mosin-Nagant: Your enemies will flatten themselves to the ground and offer up prayers of salvation to whatever god they believe in…then they will die.

AR-15: Drop it from ten feet and it shatters.
AK-47: Drop it from ten feet and it still works.
Mosin-Nagant: Drop it from ten feet and it’s more lethal than a lawn dart.

AR-15: You can melt it with a magnifying glass.
AK-47: Under a magnifying glass, you can see the ingrained dirt.
Mosin-Nagant: Under a magnifying glass, you can see the soaked-in BLOOD.

AR-15: Safe, Semiautomatic, Full-Auto (more like full-JAM)
AK-47: Safe(dubious), Semiautomatic, Full-Auto
Mosin-Nagant: Kill, Maim, Destroy

AR-15: When you run out of ammo, duck for cover and spend 15 minutes cleaning and reloading
AK-47: You could probably rig it up to fire chain-linked ammo
Mosin-Nagant: When you run out of ammo (never) you can shoot chaff and langrage from it (wikipedia that)

AR-15: My daddy bought me this weapon for my birthday
AK-47: I saved two weeks’ paychecks to buy this.
Mosin-Nagant: I think it was free…

AR-15: My rifle floated away in the flood
AK-47: My rifle was submerged for three weeks by the flood and still works
Mosin-Nagant: I fired my rifle and the flood waters parted…

AR15: You keep your bayonet in the kitchen because it is a good steak knife
AK47: You keep your bayonet in your toolbox because it is a good wire cutter
Mosin-Nagant: You no longer fix your bayonet in the house because the last time you did you poked a hole in the ceiling when you stood up

AR15: For $1000 you can get one
AK47: For $1000 you can get two and 300 rounds of ammo
Mosin-Nagant: For $1000 you can get 16 of them plus a Bulgarian armory’s worth of surplus ammo

AR15: Can start brush fires with incendiary ammunition.
AK47: Can start brush fires by dropping it after the handguard catches fire.
Mosin-Nagant: Can start brush fires by firing from anything lower than a kneeling position.

AR15: Built with custom parts, nice trigger, all the bells and whistles $1500+
AK47: Modified with aftermarket and 1,000 rounds of ammo not even $1500
Mosin-Nagant: Stock, with 1,000 rounds maybe $300, meaning you get $1200 to spend on more beer

AR15: Takes a few men out in a sweeper movement
AK47: Takes most men out in a sweeper movement
Mosin-Nagant: Shoot one the sonic boom will handle the rest

AR15: Used in negotiations
AK47: Reason for negotiations
Mosin-Nagant: Negotiator

AR15: I think I felt it kick
AK47: Kinda like a 20 guage
Mosin-Nagant: Dislocation
Mosin-Nagant with heavy ball: Where’s my freaking shoulder

AR15: Takes 3 rounds to take out your enemy
AK47: takes 30 rounds sprayed and hopefully you hit your target
Mosin-Nagant: 1 shot, 50 kills

AR15: More options than a custom Rolls-Royce. No two guns are alike.
AK47: Same number of options as a Toyota Corolla. Most guns look alike.
Mosin-Nagant: Options: You want a bayonet with that?

The limits of customizing a-
AR15: How much $ you got.
AK47: What you can find in the Tapco catalog.
Mosin-Nagant: How much duct tape Bubba’s got.

AR15: Such light recoil, you could put on over your balls and fire.
AK47: Recoil manageable enough for anyone to use it.
Mosin-Nagant: Recoil that registers as small tremors in the earth itself.

AR15: Bullet starts tumbling the moment it meets sufficient resistance, like paper
AK47: Bullet will continue trajectory until it hits something solid, like a deer
Mosin-Nagant: It keeps going and going and going….

AR15: You probably drive a Lexus
AK47: If you’re lucky to possess a vehicle, it’s referred to as a “Technical”
Mosin-Nagant: You hang truck-balls off your trailer hitch, and you’re proud of them.

AR15: Lots of fancy optics available
AK47: You can bolt some stuff to the side
Mosin-Nagant: Who cares about optics when the barrel is long enough to smack the enemy over the head without even leaving your foxhole.

AR15: Used by special forces to kill terrorists
AK47: Used by revolutionaries and any two bit nation’s illiterate conscripts to kill each other
Mosin-Nagant: Used by Simo Häyhä to kill Russian conscripts

AR15: Requires over 1000 rounds to break in
AK47: May need some breaking in
Mosin-Nagant: The stripper clips require more breaking in

AR15: Can take down smaller sized game.
AK47: Can take down average sized game.
Mosin-Nagant: Can take down satellites.

AR15: Invented 50 years ago by a consummate engineer
AK47: Invented 60 years ago by wounded tank sergeant
Mosin-Nagant: Invented 117 years ago by two drunks on a budget.

AR15: Star wars
AK47: Holy wars
Mosin-Nagant: Class wars

AR15: Makes small holes
AK47: Makes big holes
Mosin-Nagant: Makes black holes

AR15: Nice lightweight ammo can be carried in quantity.
AK47: You can carry a chest pouch with lots of mags with no problem.
Mosin-Nagant: Ammo is also used in tanks, and larger artillery pieces.

Domestic uses of the bayonet:
AR15: You affix it to your rifle and use it as a dibble to plant tulip bulbs in the garden.
AK47: You affix it to your rifle and use it to trim low-hanging tree branches.
Mosin-Nagant: You affix it to your rifle, accidentally stab it into the ceiling and bring down a square foot of plaster, and spend the next week sleeping on the couch because your wife is pissed off at you.

AR15: Comes in Pink Hello Kitty and Barbie
AK47: Comes in Pink Hello Kitty
Mosin-Nagant: What’s pink?

AR15: Iran-Contra was a cover-up
AK47: Afghanistan (1980) was a cover-up
Mosin-Nagant: Chernobyll was a cover-up

You call the thing with the ammo in it a “clip” and…
AR15: Your buddies glare at you and don’t speak to you for a month.
AK47: Your buddies smile at you with their gold teeth and “blast another cap.”
Mosin-Nagant: Your buddies smile at you because it’s one of the few times you all get to call something a “clip”… and be right.

AR15: Clean with fancy lubes and solvents with special tools.
AK47: Clean? In Soviet Russia AK clean you!
Mosin-Nagant: Squirt some Windex down the bore. Ready for another 500 rounds tomorrow!

AR15: You can be an expert with this rifle after basic training
AK47: You can be an expert with this rifle after a seminar at the Holiday Inn on AKs
Mosin-Nagant: You can be an expert with this rifle after spending 30 minutes on the internet reading forums, and watching youtube videos

AR15: Can shoot a squirrel and have a great meal
AK47: Can shoot a squirrel and have some meat left to eat.
Mosin-Nagant: There is a tail left around here somewhere.

AR15: Puts some countries air force to shame
AK47: Used by countries who can’t afford an air force
Mosin-Nagant: Could be used to take down an air force

AR15: Shoot one and you’ll be owning one soon!
AK47: Shoot one and you will buy some high capacity magazines and 1000 rounds of ammo
Mosin-Nagant: Shoot one and you will own 15 and want another!

AR15: Goes pew pew pew
AK47: Goes pow pow pow
Mosin-Nagant: Goes BOOOOOOOM!

AR15: Made by a stoned Eugene
AK47: Made by an injured Kalashnikov
Mosin-Nagant: Made by a drunken Belgian and a crazy Ivan

Owners drink of choice
AR15: Cognac
AK47: Malt liquor
Mosin-Nagant: Brake cleaner

AR15: Makes a tiny hole with no fragmentation or undue extra injury, in accordance with the Geneva Convention
AK47: Makes a big hole and sometimes flings severed body parts around, not in accordance with the Geneva Convention
Mosin-Nagant: One of the reasons the Geneva Convention was written

AR15: Can shoot it off your head and it won’t kill you
AK47: Shoot it off your head and you die
Mosin-Nagant: Shoot if from your shoulder and you need it popped back into place

AR15: Used to kill Enemies of the State.
AK47: Used by Enemies of the State.
Mosin-Nagant: Enemy at the Gates.

AR15: Good for shooting poodles.
AK47: Good for shooting enemies of the state
Mosin-Nagant: Good for shooting light armored vehicles

AR15: Keeps gunsmiths in business
AK47: Keeps drug dealers and terrorists in business
Mosin-Nagant: Keeps Chiropractors in business

AR15: Built like a Toy.
AK47: Built like a Sewing Machine.
Mosin-Nagant: Built like a Tank!

AR15: Too much Plastic.
AK47: Too Much Sheet metal.
Mosin-Nagant: Too much of everything!

AR15: stays in the Vault.
AK47: not allowed in the vault.
Mosin-Nagant: Can be used to Pole Vault!

AR15: In your Heart you think it’s ugly.
AR15: In your Heart you know it’s ugly.
Mosin-Nagant: You’re afraid to call it ugly!

AR15: It doesn’t go anywhere near water… Unless you’re drinking Evian
AK47: If water touches it, it would mistake it for a cleaning solvent and fall apart
Mosin-Nagant: Row-row-row your boat, gently down the Volga…

AR15: If it gets in the Mekong river, you need to clean it before firing.
AK47: If it gets in the Mekong river, shake the water out before firing.
Mosin-Nagant: Used as an oar to paddle up and down the Mekong river

AR15: Used to attack soldiers building a bridge across the Mekong
AK47: Used to protect soldiers building a bridge across the Mekong
Mosin-Nagant: Used to actually build the bridge across the Mekong.

AR15: Plastics make it possible
AK47: Sheet metal make it possible
Mosin-Nagant: Driftwood make it possible

AR15: Nice useful little round.
AK47: Very functional round.
Mosin-Nagant: Anti Tank Round

AR15: Useful against unarmored foe
AK47: Useful against armored foe
Mosin-Nagant: Useful against foe on the other side of the battlefield!

AR15: Useful for hosing down forward edge of the battle area…
AK47: Useful for hosing down sky over forward edge of the battle area…
Mosin-Nagant: Useful for hosing down rear of the battle area, enemy reserves and basic training camps at home…

AR15: Thousands of moving parts, held together by hundreds of bolts, screws, and precision welds.
AK47: Several dozen moving parts, held together by a few screws and some drunken Ivan’s light-sabering with an acetylene torch.
Mosin-Nagant: TWO MOVING PARTS. TWO SCREWS. .

AR15: Owner votes for John McCain
AK47: Owner prays for Barack Hussein Osama
Mosin-Nagant: Owner can overthrow the government no matter who becomes president.

AR15: One tenth the firepower at 10 times the price
AK47: Half the Firepower at twice the price
Mosin-Nagant: 10 times the firepower at one tenth the price

AR15: Turns little rocks into pebbles
AK47: Turns big rocks into little rocks
Mosin-Nagant: Makes molehills out of mountains

AR15: One inch groups at 100 yards.
AK47: Five to six inch groups at 100 yards.
Mosin-Nagant: Muzzle is one inch from target at 100 yards.

AR15: Designs drawn on blueprint paper by stoner and a team of experts in a R&D facility
AK47: Designs drawn on notebook paper by Kalashnikov in a Soviet hospital
Mosin-Nagant: Designs drawn on cocktail napkins by a drunken Sergei Mosin-Nagant in a bar

AR15: Clean with a bunch of cloths, patches, picks, brushes and don’t loose the small parts. Clean every 100 rounds.
AK47: Run a patch down the barrel, wipe out the chamber every few months.
Mosin-Nagant: Throw it in the dishwasher every couple years.

AR15: New shooters love it because of good ergonomics and light recoil.
AK47: New shooters love it because of light recoil.
Mosin-Nagant: New shooters required to sign a waiver-absolving owner of physical damage incurred from recoil

AR15: Usually equipped with flash hider to reduce muzzle flash.
AK47: Can be equipped with flash hider to reduce muzzle flash.
Mosin-Nagant: Muzzle flash can be used to summon the mother ship.

AR15: Can be used to defend home against crooks
AK47: Can be used to defend Oil Tanker against Pirates
Mosin-Nagant: Can Replace one of the Deck Guns on the Kirov Class Battle cruiser

AR-15: Defenders
AK-47: Invaders
Mosin-Nagant: Victors

AR15: High cost, high maintenance.
AK47: Low cost, low maintenance.
Mosin-Nagant: What are these cost and maintenance things you speak of?

AR15: Your rifle takes a few hours to sight in, starting at 50 yard and moving up to 200, making minute adjustments with a small screwdriver.
AK47: You slide your rear sight around until you hit the target.
Mosin-Nagant: You hit your rifle with a hammer to sight it.

AR15: Arm of the free world
AK47: Arm of everybody else
Mosin-Nagant: Arm of Chuck Norris

AR15: Politicians fear it.
AK47: Media fears it.
Mosin-Nagant: Zombies fear it!

At an indoor range.
AR15: Gets people’s attention because of it’s wonderful accuracy.
AK47: Gets people’s attention because of it’s rugged reliability.
Mosin-Nagant: Gets people’s attention because muzzle flash sets off sprinkler system!

As for accurizing.
AR15: You buy match grade components installed by professional gunsmith and spend thousands of dollars.
AK47: You buy GOOD ammo and optics and spend hundreds of dollars.
Mosin-Nagant: You use an empty soda can, some sand paper and spend seven bucks!

AR15: You can put one hole in a paper target at 100 meters with 30 rounds.
AK47: You can put a .30″ hole through 12″ of oak, if you can hit it.
Mosin-Nagant: You can knock down everyone else’s target with the shock wave of your bullet going downrange.

AR15: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a great whiffle bat.
AK47: When out of ammo your rifle will nominally pass as a club.
Mosin-Nagant: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.

AR15: What’s recoil?
AK47: Recoil is manageable, even fun.
Mosin-Nagant: Recoil is often used to relocate shoulders thrown out by the previous shot.

AR15: Your sight adjustment is incremented in fractions of minute of angle.
AK47: Your sight adjustment goes to “10″, and you’ve never bothered moving it.
Mosin-Nagant: Your sight adjustment goes to 12 miles and you’ve actually tried it.

AR15: After a day at the range, you detail strip your rifle and thoroughly clean and lubricate it with only the best products.
AK47: After a day of shooting out back you run a quick patch through the bore and throw your rifle in the back of your truck.
Mosin-Nagant: Cleaning….and maintenance?

AR15: Millennium Falcon
AK47: Star Destroyer
Mosin-Nagant: The Death Star

As for accessories.
AR15: You have a never ending list of high dollar tacticool accessories.
AK47: You have a never ending list of Chinese made tacticool accessories.
Mosin-Nagant: You have carry strap and ammo what more you need comrade?

AR15: Cost a lot of money
AK47: Cost some money
Mosin-Nagant: free with purchase of bayonet

AR15: Backordered.
AK47: Backordered.
Mosin-Nagant: Mail ordered.

AR15: When out of ammo you would rather die than risk damaging your $1200 rifle buy using it as a club.
AK47: When out of ammo your rifle makes a nice club.
Mosin-Nagant: Your rifle is a club that can shoot people.

AR15: When on patrol in Vietnam ammo is so light you can carry around 900 rounds of ammo with you.
AK47: When patrolling your warlord’s territory, you carry all the ammo you need in the back of a technical.
Mosin-Nagant: When sent to battle at Stalingrad you are only issued a stripper clip of ammunition and told that you would find your rifle laying on the ground.

AR15: Got it by joining army
AK47: Got it with one paycheck
Mosin-Nagant: Got it by saving beer cans

On prairie dogs:
AR15: You sit back with your buddies poopin them all day long 651hits 3 misses.
AK47: You and another person go to a dog-town fire 4,000 rounds and each get one be cause they were 8 feet away and deaf.
Mosin-Nagant: You go with 3 other people get the first shot at the first P-dog you see and wipe out the entire colony, leaving a crater that the people who find it claim was a meteor impact.

Regarding muzzle blast:
AR15: Makes a popping sound that is hardly noticed at a public range.
AK47: Makes a hearty boom that usually gets noticed at a public range.
Mosin-Nagant: Makes the Earth tremble and two guys in Bavaria look at each other and ask “vat da hell vas dat?!”

AR15: Looks like a toy
AK47: Looks cobbled together from spare parts
Mosin-Nagant: Looks like a Kentucky Musket of DOOM!

AR15: Sworn at by three generations of American soldiers and Marines
AK47: Brought back as a proof of kill by Carlos Hathcock
Mosin-Nagant: Carried by Samo Hayho, Vasili Ziatsev and feared on both sides of the battle line in the hands of snipers.

AR15: Flash suppressed, super stealthy
AK47: Why worry about stealth when you and your comrades can pour a wall of lead onto the enemy?
Mosin-Nagant: Blinds anybody within 150 meters who’s not wearing welding goggles.

AR15: Can use the bayonet to whittle
AK47: Can use the bayonet to kill an enemy or butcher food
Mosin-Nagant: Bayonet used to cut the sheet metal parts they use to make AR’s and AK’s

AR15: Underslung grenade launcher can take out a dug-in enemy at 300 meters
AK47: Underslung grenade launcher makes a lot of noise and a huge dirt crater
Mosin-Nagant: Who needs grenades when your bullets are so big they can kill tanks?

AR15: Inspired by science fiction
AK47: Inspired by a need for a reliable, selectable-fire weapon
Mosin-Nagant: Inspired by men with balls. Men with HUGE, HAIRY BALLS

AR15: Comprised of several hundred moving parts, usually falls victim to Murphy’s law
AK47: Comprised of as few moving parts as possible, almost impossible to break unless something goes REALLY REALLY WRONG (which might IMPROVE the accuracy)
Mosin-Nagant: Has only one moving part, is held together by only two screws, and damned well outshoots both of the above.

AR15: Rust is your mortal enemy, you clean your gun five times a day.
AK47: Rust might become a problem in a few years, you clean your gun once a month.
Mosin-Nagant: Rust makes your rifle look more authentic.

AR15: You clean your rifle with molecularly engineered precision $1000-ounce synthetic lubricant
AK47: WD-40 is acceptable
Mosin-Nagant: If everything else runs out you can clean your rifle with your own piss

With regard to sound volume:
AR15: Suitable for use with a sound suppressor because its tiny bullet is already quiet.
AK47: No need for a sound suppressor because the enemy will be flat on the ground with their hands over their ears, hiding from the sheer volume of fire.
Mosin-Nagant: You don’t need a sound suppressor, because after the first shot the enemy will be totally deaf anyway.

How long does it take to learn to care for your rifle?
AR15: It will take a drill sergeant about a week to teach you what you need to know about how to disassemble, reassemble and maintain your rifle.
AK47: A good gunnery sergeant can teach you how to care for one in about 4 hours.
Mosin-Nagant: You can learn how to take it apart and put it back together in about 15 minutes with the manual and a couple of YouTube videos in front of you.

AR15: Must be carefully cleaned every 100 rounds or so.
AK47: Only have to worry about cleaning if using Wolf ammo
Mosin-Nagant: Cleaning? Consists of getting liquored up on vodka and peeing down the barrel to get rid of corrosive salts from milsurp primers.

AR15: Opened by pushing 2 pins
AK47: Opened with a swift kick
Mosin-Nagant: Opened with a 2X4 and a ball peen hammer

AR15: Mostly made out of expensive polymers
AK47: Mostly made out of cheap stamped metal and particle board
Mosin-Nagant: Mostly made out of “whatever the f*ck the comrades could find lying around the People’s Factory”

AR15: can probably put together a nice one, due to the popularity of ownership, for under $1,000
AK47: Can probably get a decent one, or refurbished one, for under $500.
Mosin-Nagant: Can probably buy rifle, 440 rounds of ammo, and a case of Windex for under $200.

AR15: Won’t work unless you clean it every day
AK47: Should be cleaned at least once a year
Mosin-Nagant: Was last cleaned by a Russian conscript in Berlin in 1945

AR15: If the firing pin breaks you send it to the factory for repairs
AK47: If the firing pin breaks you buy a new one
Mosin-Nagant: If the firing pin breaks you just screw it deeper into the bolt

AR15: Your accessories cost more than the rifle
AK47: All your accessories cost around $300
Mosin-Nagant: All your accessories come free with the rifle

AR15: Accountant’s Rifle
AK47: Factory Worker’s Rifle
Mosin-Nagant: If you can fill out an application, you can probably already afford it

AR15: Tax return will get it
AK47: Tax return will get you 2 plus mags
Mosin-Nagant: Tax Return will get you a case plus enough ammo to last you till doomsday

AR15: Made when jet passenger flight was fairly regular
AK47: Made when knowing how to fly could make you an officer
Mosin-Nagant: Made when hot air balloons were considered the ultimate flight technology

AR15: Buttstock is collapsible, only used to aid in shooting the rifle
AK47: Buttstock is also good for knocking some oppressor’s teeth out
Mosin-Nagant: Buttstock is good for use as a sledgehammer, crutch, club, or boat oar

+3 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

The two main battle rifles of WW2 that used antiquated rimmed cartridges, the Lee-Enfield and the Mosin-Nagant, sported tiny extractors compared to the Mauser. You can even say the Mosin-Nagant is a "push feed". The two also happen to be the most proven reliable bolt action rifles ever used in military service, having served in more kinds of "adverse" conditions than the Mauser. The Mosin-Nagant's clips can also be loaded with ammo without the special sequence ("over and under") required for the Lee-Enfield's clips. That gives the Mosin-Nagant an edge. (I know there are YouTube videos showing that the Lee-Enfield clip can be loaded in the much easier "rim always forward of the previous one" manner, but the "over and under" sequence was part of British manual of arms, and thus, added to the stuff the soldier had to remember and master.)

Yup, they are also rather homely. OK, ugly is ugly. The Mosin-Nagant's safety, which involves turning the cocking piece, is also inconvenient to use, but at least you can plainly see that it is deployed and working! It's not a bug, it's a feature LOL!

The 7.62x54R still serves in the militaries of Russia and other nations, as both a sniper round (Dragunov SVD, Romanian PSL) and a machinegun round (the PK series, plus those surplus Guryonovs still seeing use in Afghanistan). It was the original short-fat, being wider in girth than the .303 and .30 Krag. Since 1891, it has been in service for 122 years. For a round that started with black powder, that is simply amazing. Its performance with modern powders is nothing to sniff at, even if you factor in the longer Russian barrels, it is still comparable to the .308 Winchester and mil-spec (Garand) .30-06.

Simo Hayha, the Finnish sniper acknowledged as the most prolific in history, used a short variant against the Soviets during the Winter War (he was a small guy). It was a regular service rifle, no optics, noted only for its better than average accuracy. Hayha killed more than 500 Russians with it, plus 200 more with the Suomi submachinegun. They're all credited as sniper kills, BTW, because Hayha's tactics defined what sniping was, not his equipment. Sobering thought for today's equipment-crazy sniper community, huh? Hayha didn't wear any Ghillie suit, either. Snow and stalking techniques were his camouflage. They called him The White Death.

With Simo Hayha, and Vasily Zaitsev and Lyudmila Pavlichenko, you have 3 of the greatest snipers of WW2 (and with Lyudmilla Pavlichenko, arguably the greatest female sniper of all time), all armed with the same rifle type. The rifle will shoot.

Dave Emary of Hornady and Mike Venturino of that other publication actually tested sniper rifles from WW2, plus a Gibbs reproduction Springfield 1903A4, using period optics and ammo. Which was the winner? The one least expected by the testers, the Mosin-Nagant. Never judge a rifle by its looks never sounded truer. Dave Emary hit a gong 4 out of 5 from 1,000 yards. Again, with period-correct ammo and the 4x Russian scope. It's in another publication (ST) if you want to check it out. The only way the Springfield could equal the Mosin-Nagant was by using modern (Black Hills) ammunition.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 36 weeks 14 hours ago

WA Mtnhunter,
Given who was using the M-N the past few decades I wish it had only been useful for a bayonet holder. Unfortunately it's been used effectively against American and NATO troops for a long time and my understanding is that it's still being used by some insurgents in Afghanistan and Iraq. Plenty of former Soviet client states still keep them around, too. I also seem to recall that the Russians actually won some kind of fairly prestigious long range international shooting event back in the 50s using Mosin-Nagants; besting American shooters armed with Springfields.
Don't get me wrong -- the Springfield is by far the superior rifle, as if of course the Mauser '98, and for my money at least, the Lee Enfield. But the Mosin-Nagant is still a rugged, dependable rifle that has been used to great effect over many, many years in war, including by snipers.
It also cleans up pretty well with a sporterized stock, although I've chosen to keep mine in military configuration. It does kick like a brass mule but I replaced the butt plate with a ready-fit recoil pad and that helped a bunch. The only really bad thing about them is the sights. I can barely see that thin front post sitting 30" away. Had to whiten it just to be able to pick it up.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 36 weeks 5 hours ago

Ontario Honker,
As you say, any straight bolt is a bit unhandy but I really haven't had any trouble cycling the action and getting off a quick shot with my 91/30. Also as you noted, the M-N is not the only military rifle sporting a straight bolt. One of the first things anyone sporterizing a Mauser back in the day needed to do was have the bolt bent for scope use. That was usually followed by a new safety and a trigger job. Cheaper than Dirt has a page on "Modernizing and Accessorizing the Mosin-Nagant" which includes info on their bolt kits, scope mounts and drop-in stocks, and Midway USA and Brownell's also carry a pretty complete line of products for upgrading Mosin-Nagants.
As for the Carcano and Kennedy, my mother used to work in that book depository building and the difficulty of making that shot has been highly exaggerated. It is not all that far and the car was moving at a snail's pace. In fact, Oswald got off more than one shot but only made one fatal hit. My dad also owned a Carcano that he occasionally used for deer hunting on paper company land in the piney woods of East Texas. It is certainly not the greatest military rifle in the world, but back then you could buy them mail order for about $12 so there were a lot of them sold and in use. He had no problem shooting a three-shot group of 2-3 inches at 100 yards using open sights. I've never fully accepted the official version of events on the Kennedy assassination -- I've always believed the mob had a hand in it -- but don't let the virulent conspiratorialists lead you astray. There was nothing impossible about that shot.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from schizuki wrote 36 weeks 4 hours ago

Someone needs to explain to me what makes the Carcano a "piece of crap." I mean facts, not gun-shop lore.

And speaking of "pieces of crap", the last Arisakas were dodgy to say the least, but an early, mid or pre-war example is a superb rifle, probably the best of the Mauser derivatives.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from troll53 wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

The Finns captured thousands of Mosin rifles then rebuilt them. I have a model 39 that was originally made in 1896 that was rebarreled by Sako in the 1940's. It will out shoot my Remington 700 and yours, too.

Even with cheap, plentiful Russian surplus ammo, it prints a big raggedy hole.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from RJ Arena wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Thanks Dave, for the history lesson. I have seen many rifles less attractive that not contributed as much to the world of shooting. I have no need for another rifle(like that has ever stopped me before) I think I will pick one up.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Del in KS wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Having carried military weapons for 20 years in the service of my country I have no use for one now.
BTW there is a very good movie about Zaitsev called "Enemy at the Gate" staring Jude Law.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Schizuki is right about Mosin Nagant actions being smooth as butter. I picked up a Model 91/30 from Cabelas a couple of years ago when they put them on sale for the grand sum of $89.99. It was the second or third time Cabelas had offered them at that price, and I finally decided it was stupid to let any centerfire rifle slip by for so little money. I arranged the sale over the phone and told the sales guy to pick me a good one, and he sure did. Stock was in great shape and the bore about as good as they come, but I was genuinely shocked by how slickly that action operated.
Like most military rifles in military configuration they are indeed ugly, but there also is beauty to be found in function, and as DEP points out the Mosin has proven itself on battle fields around the world. Surplus ammo is also dirt cheap and decent sporting ammo is readily available. You'll need a really long cleaning rod but it does make a pretty good hog rifle and it's fun to shoot at the range. Incidentally, they had a big selection of Mosin-Nagants when I stopped by Cabelas last Saturday, and the price tag is now $170. Glad I bought mine when I did...

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from danspontgp wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Have to agree, they are one ugly s.o.b.. However with a small amount of money invested they can look as good as a modern rifle. I own both a 91/30 Sniper & a M44 Carbine. Have modified both with a bent bolt & a synthetic Sporter stock. Both the bolt & stock upgrades are inexpensive & a D.Y.I. kind of person can do it. I also drilled & tapped the receiver on the 91/30 to accept a scope & mount. Love my 91/30 it shoots like a dream. The M44 carbine has way too much muzzle blast for my liking, but it has taken down a couple of MN White tail. Have to say the carbine works good in the brush.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from SL wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Great to see DP do a write-up on this proven warhorse! I too bought one from Cabelas last year. For the money I could not pass it up. I was not disappointed in the least. After getting the globs of cosmoline off of it, the bore looked like brand new. The accuracy I have gotten is pretty impressive too. Maybe not as accurate as a current day bolt action, but they will shoot minute of man for sure. You will not get to shoot a similar potent caliber as the 7.62X54 for anywhere near as cheap as you will this caliber. I would not hesitate to take this gun deer hunting either. Packs plenty of punch, way more than the piddly .223 that many AR shooters think is an adequate deer gun. I highly recommend this gun as a rugged, beater bolt-action that one can still get fairly inexpensive ammo for!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

As a battle rifle, it sure makes an excellent bayonet handle.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 35 weeks 6 days ago

Ontario Honker,
I'll give you credit; you don't let facts stand in the way of your theories. As far as the ammo Oswald used, it was Western Cartridge Co. ammunition loaded with the 160 gr. RN bullet, and Western Cartridge Co. turned out pretty good stuff. Jack O'Connor shot a lot of that brand in Arizona. The gun was wearing a 4X scope and when the FBI checked it out with the same kind of ammo they got consistent 3-5 inch groups at 100 yards. Not minute of angle, but certainly minute of head.
When I said JFK's car was moving at a "snail's pace," I didn't literally mean at the speed of a snail. I meant it was part of a parade procession and was moving slowly enough for Secret Service agents to keep up on foot.
The sixth floor window of the old Book Depository building is somewhere between 70 and 90 feet high, which is not exactly nosebleed territory, and the lateral distance of the three shots was from less than 60 yards to a shade over 80 yards. I've never claimed to be and nobody has ever accused me of being the best shot in the world, but I've taken down a fair number of running whitetails in west Texas canyon country that were farther away and at a steeper angle than Kennedy was from Oswald. And they weren't just moving faster than JFK's car -- they were bouncing up and down. I also got to be a pretty fair hand at hitting running jackrabbits out of the back of a moving pickup truck at night. Oswald was an ex-marine who twice qualified for sharpshooter status; scoring 48 and 49 out of a possible 50 at 200 yards. I'd say he was perfectly capable of taking a solid rest and hitting a couple of people no more than 83 yards away, moving on a smooth surface at walking speed. CBS had 11 shooters take the same shots from the same elevation and distance with the same model rifle and all but one scored two out of three hits in the allotted time. The other guy scored all three times. As for the shot at Walker, the bullet got deflected by the window frame. Besides, just because a guy misses one easy shot doesn't mean he can't make a more difficult one. I've also, I'm ashamed to admit, missed a turkey with a shotgun from 20 yards away. I haven't missed one since then.
I don't know how we even got off on this Carcano-Kennedy business, since today's post was about the Mosin-Nagant, but I suppose JFK assassination theories just never go away. I also agree there are still unanswered questions. But to say that there was anything magical about those shots, or that the old Carcano was incapable of getting the job done, is just wrong. As to why Oswald chose the Carcano, it was probably for the same reason everybody else did. It was cheap and he didn't have much money, so $19.95 for a scoped rifle probably looked pretty good to him.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 35 weeks 4 days ago

Clay,

that post of yours deserves a column of its own. Nice.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Clay Cooper wrote 35 weeks 4 days ago

O Garcia True, Very True, but I just had to do it!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 35 weeks 4 days ago

Tim Platt,
You said you were having trouble finding cheap 7.62x54R ammo anywhere. Don't know how long it will last but I got an email this morning from Sportsman's Guide listing 440 round tins of 147 gr. FMJ (corrosive primers). It's $85.49 for members and $89.99 for non-members. Also, ran a search at Ammo to Go and they're offering 440 round tins of military ammo for $104.95. They also have 20 rounds boxes of 174 gr. FMJ non-corrosive Brown Bear ($10.95), 182 gr. FMJ non-corrosive PRVI Partizan ($15.95) and 180 gr. FMJ non-corrosive Sellier & Bellot ($21.95). All of it was in stock at last check.
Changing subjects, I winced at several comments about the Lee Enfield being an ugly rifle. I'll go along with the idea that most military rifles are pretty ugly, but a nicely sporterized LE looks pretty good to my eyes, and some of the old Lee Speeds are very handsome rifles. My Savage-built No. 4 MK 1 wears a trim, decently figured Fajen stock, a low profile Weaver K3 and a red recoil pad with blackline spacer. I also picked up a four-round magazine that fits flush and does wonders for the rifle's profile. I wouldn't be ashamed to show up with it anywhere.
Also, schizuki is right on the mark about some of the Arisakas being superb rifles as long as you stay away from the ones issued late in the war. Same warning applies to most of the other rifles -- including Mausers -- issued by the Axis powers once they started going down for the count.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Safado wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Unlovely is an understatement. Just my opinion but there is no room in the vault for something that looks that ugly.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Buckshott00 wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Mighty? Maybe... depends on which variant you got/put together from a heap of left over parts. Sure they can be custom rebuilt, but how does that make them still Mosins?

Ruskies seem to favor quantity over quality. Mosins and AK's My $0.02

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from O Garcia wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

*should be 3.5x Russian scope. Sorry Dave.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from the goat wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

I don't know about you guys.....but mine KICKS LIKE A MULE with the military steel core ammo, but I still love shooting it and is accurate as heck. Killing stationary clays at 600 yrds. One mean shooter I tell ya.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Mark-1 wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

There is a bunch of Sunday shooters in NYS Finger Lakes who love to shoot old military bolt actions at targets. They love these Mosin-Nagants.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from sarg wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Well treestand, I'm neither young or Financialy impared but I like my M/N. Not my favorite rifle but something to play with.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from sarg wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Well treestand, I'm neither young or Financialy impared but I like my M/N. Not my favorite rifle but something to play with.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MJC wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

I've very seriously considered picking up a M/N and sporterizing it. You can get nice stocks for it, scope it out, fix the trigger... but what's stopped me is the safety. I haven't found anything that converts it to a more modern safety, and the one it comes with is pretty clunky. Not the sort of thing you gently ease off while you've got a deer in your sights.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Marion Johnson wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

I always considered the M-N ugly but compared to the M 16, not so much,

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from schizuki wrote 36 weeks 1 day ago

Damn, you, Petzal. I've got three already, and you put a bug in my ear. Stopped at Cabela's at lunch and spied a 1925-dated hex receiver. Now I've got four.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from ffsnuffy wrote 36 weeks 20 hours ago

A great rifle and very affordable!

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Tim Platt wrote 36 weeks 19 hours ago

I can't find any cheap 7.62X54R ammo online. $300 for 500 rounds. I guess they used to sell 440 rounds for $90 but everyone is out of stock on that particular item. I can still get 500 .223's for $125. Really before you even think about buying a gun these days your first thought should be can I get any ammo for it. Sad but true.

I worked for a guy today that lived outside of Murfreesboro, TN. and he started talking about leaving to go pick up a 10/22 that would shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards for $500 and I thought yeah right. He also mentioned the Kalishnakov was introduced in 1947 and was the most popular military rifle of all time which I also had never heard and still can't find any proof of, but at least now two people have told me that today.

I finally asked this guy what he did for a living because he had so many extravagant rifles in a modest house and crazy stories and he told me he had worked for Ronnie Barrett for over 25 years. Says he has shot over 30,000 rounds of .50 BMG out of a bolt action rifle. I found it very interesting. Actually the most useful information I got was that I should use Lapua Midas+ .22's and get a barrel for my 10/22 from a friend of his. I am taking his advice.

I have shot a Nagant and find them incredibly ugly and awkward and don't understand why they don't hold 30 rounds, but yeah I think the gun was more accurate than I am. No reason not to have three that I can think of, as long as you can find something to shoot out of them.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 36 weeks 18 hours ago

I always thought the MN was no beauty but is it any uglier than a Lee Enfield? And I agree, ugly as they might be, there's no comparison to an AR platform which are just plain hideous. I also always thought the MN was a useless club like some of the Japanese, Italian, and Chinese junk cranked out during WWII. Very surprised to learn they are not. Thanks for the info guys.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from John Nixdorf wrote 36 weeks 16 hours ago

I have a postwar Polish "Circle 11" M44, made in 1952, never issued or seriously used. It shoots great, and I only ever shoot new winchester 7.62x54mmr in it. Since it's accurate and in great shape, I bought an aftermarket synthetic Archangel stock and when I get time, I'll be switching it over. Neat thing about the Archangel stock is that you can use a 5 or 10 round magazine with the Mosin, and you can mount a scope easier.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from nc30-06 wrote 36 weeks 8 hours ago

I may have to see if I can find a deal on one of these.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 36 weeks 6 hours ago

Mind you, I have never shot one of these but a few observations. Though the action on M-N may be smooth as silk, I'm thinking they still were not a terribly fast shooting rifle. Requires quite a leap from the trigger to that forward mounted bolt. And, of course, the straight handle only increases the reach and slows down reloading. It's more than ugly, it's unhandy. I never could figure out why so many military gun designers were so slow to adapt the bent bolt. The two calibers the M-S were offered in seem to be surprisingly useful, especially for rimmed cartridges. Considering the number of flopped military cartridge designs during it's long durable lifetime, that in itself speaks volumes about the quality of the original M-N design.

Speaking flops, the Caracano comes instantly to mind. How in the world did Oswald hit Kennedy and Conally shooting that bona fide piece of crap gun and notoriously unpredictable and gutless military ammo DOWNWARD from a sixth story window at a moving target? He only missed one out of three shots yet weeks before he couldn't hit General Walker through his dining room window at less than 100 feet? I was only a kid in the sixth grade at the time but I knew something smelled real fishy about the Kennedy assassination scenario. I have to also wonder why Oswald, who was fired from one job because he spent too much time loafing and reading gun magazines (no kidding!) didn't know enough to avoid the Caracano (which every gun writer at that time no doubt agreed was about the worst choice for a sniper rifle) and instead pick up a sniper quality M-N which probably was as cheap and as easy to find. It's all the more baffling that he didn't choose a M-N since he was such a Russian commie-phobe anyway. Maybe the POC scope on the Caracano is what sold him on that model? Still, to make that gun and ammo work for that particular situation the way he supposedly did seems quite improbable to me.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from SL wrote 36 weeks 4 hours ago

Maybe the mystery guy on the grassy knoll had a Mosin?? LOL Since Oswald was a commie sympathizer it would only make sense.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Whit Johnstone wrote 36 weeks 2 hours ago

The Mosin is not as good as the Mauser, Springfield, or Lee-Enfield, but it is a considerably better rifle then the Carcano, for two reasons. The first is that it uses a during WWII up to date round with a spitzer bullet. In fact the 7.62x54r is so good that the Russian military still uses it in its sniper rifles and light and general purpose machine guns. In addition, Mannilicher clips are essential to loading the Carcano, while the Mosin-Nagant can easily be loaded one round at a time, stripper clips being a convenience.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Ontario Honker ... wrote 36 weeks 1 hour ago

Shizuki: The Finns were outfitted with Caracanos during their winter wars with the Russians. They threw them away and picked up any M-N they could from the enemies. It seems everyone that bought into the Caracano was soon sorry for it. The Germans scarfed up all of them they could when Italy fell but only issued them to kids and old people - the German home guard who weren't expected to live five minutes in real combat anyway. From what I have read those military rounds that Oswald used were mostly responsible for the gun's bad reputation. I think any idiot could look at those rounds and see that they could not be accurate (bullets were WAY too long). Their elongation was complicated by consistent inconsistencies in the powder and loading of the cartridges. In battle situations the Caracano had a reputation for not hitting the proverbial broadside of a barn.

Besides the crappy rounds/gun Oswald used, I see the biggest problem with the book depository scenario is his shooting from the sixth floor using a very low velocity, overweight, overly elongated, lobbing trajectory bullet. How would he even know where the bullet would hit? The trajectory would be drastically effected by change in gravity shooting downhill like that. Also he puts one round in the ground somewhere (a piece of shattered "curbstone" wounded a bystander) but the other two somehow find their way right smack into the vitals of both Kennedy and Conally? Oswald couldn't even hit the car and then nails Kennedy in the neck and head with the next two rounds? That's some absurdly inconsistent shooting. Something wrong with that picture if you ask me. The presidential limo was not speeding but it wasn't moving at a snail's pace either. That would be some really tough shooting for a very fine, flat-shooting rifle. I find it hard to believe that even an expert who spent a lot of time at the range and who actually took the time to sight that POC in for an elevated shot could still make it. So, couldn't Oswald have made himself an expert practicing with that gun? That would have been rather difficult for a guy who DIDN'T DRIVE. I'm sure he could get on a Dallas bus with a gun and ride out the country, find a sixth story perch, somehow construct a moving target, and prepare himself for this very difficult assassination attempt. Pffft! I believe that Oswald THOUGHT he was going to kill the president or maybe even just scare the crap out of him like he did General Edwin Walker. However, I have to believe someone else actually shot the president. If Kennedy had been hit ONCE with that POC Caracano, I would probably be willing to blow it off as a lucky shot. But he connected TWICE. At a moving target that was very small (Kennedy's head). And Oswald was using a scope of almost no magnitude power and a gun/round that would have been one of the poorest choices for a sniper gun in the world. He missed the car entirely and hit the ground. With that skinny scope would he have even been able to see where the missed round hit and make adjustments? Even if he did, could he have made the guesstimate "adjustments" necessary to make neck/head shots on a moving target? Boys, that's a lot of mighty slim "ifs".

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from chiefbuck wrote 35 weeks 6 days ago

RE: Arisaka 99 Japanese WWII rifles. They had chrome bores and a very strong action which was a simplified Mauser type. Their safety although awkward to operate prevented pierced primers from hitting the rifleman's eye. I saw a safety replacement kit at a gun show and regret not buying it. I like the Japanese rifles and the British .303 and regret not buying a five round magazine at another gun show. However I did take the recommendation of the "Guru" and bought a Ruger American, If I wasn't married to the same girl for 49 years, I'd try to marry the Ruger American. I also have a few Nagants and several versions of the Japanese 7.7 and 6.5.
I did use one of the kits to mount a scope and change the bolt handle, I had to have a pro weld the bolt handle on because I could not drill the bolt steel. One of the many WWII rifles not in my collection is the Carcano. Could have bought one for $5 and declined.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckstopper wrote 35 weeks 6 days ago

The new "revelation" now about the Kennedy assassination is that the fatal shot shot came from an accidental discharge from a Secret Service agents rifle in a trailing car during the ensuing commotion after the initial shots from Oswald. It would account for the seamingly low trajectory of the fatal shot as seen in the live footage of film. Documentary coming out soon.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from edalweber wrote 35 weeks 4 days ago

Actually a good, sturdy gun for general use,and of course noted for its accuracy.Get some Norma ammo and reload your cases,easy with a Lee Loader if nothing else.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from MReeder wrote 35 weeks 2 days ago

If anyone's interested, Midway USA's "Gun Stories" program on the Outdoor Channel will be featuring the Mosin-Nagant on tomorrow's new episode. If anyone hasn't seen "Gun Stories" its hosted by Joe Mantegna and is really well done. it's one of the few outdoor-oriented TV programs ("Gun Nuts" being one of the others, of course)that I always try to catch.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Greg Hart wrote 35 weeks 2 days ago

Great article Dave. As the proud owner of a Mosin I enjoy reading everything I can on them. They are accurate, powerful and extremely affordable.
The Mosin is rugged, no frills weapon that is tough, reliable, and easy to use. That makes it beautiful in my book.

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jim McKee wrote 27 weeks 3 days ago

We are the largest Mosin group on facebook . Give us a visit and join us if you like what you see . https://www.facebook.com/groups/41973201278/

0 Good Comment? | | Report
from Greg Hart wrote 24 weeks 6 days ago

More than one person has commented on the unattractiveness of the Mosin, but these folks are misssing the point. The true beauty of the Mosin lies in it's functionality, longevity, and utilitarian design. The Mosin is powerful, accurate, and affordable, and I find these qualities to be very attractive.
GH1

0 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment