A couple observations here, from someone who lives in Tucson.

First, I can think of a million ways that the shooting rampage might have been less deadly. More armed citizens (we're fairly libertarian about that sort of thing here), a few security people, a smaller magazine on the firearm, a partridge in a pear tree. You could maybe cut down on the number killed; most of the victims other than the Congressman were shot multiple times. Thank finagle that Giffords she had good EMTs around her...

Second, the shooter is a fruit loop, but not so insane that he didn't know that what he was doing was wrong. So he was a schizo, apparently, with a serious fixation on Giffords. So you couldn't do much for her by changing the firearm. One or two shots could achieve his goal.

3. "Why is it so easy for insane people to get firearms?" Well, the thing is, if you were to make it easier to detain people like Loughner, and prevent them from buying firearms, you might run afoul of the 1st, 3rd and 6th Amendments in addition to the second. That sort of thing needs to be done very cautiously.

I would think that a much stronger national health care plan that included mental health coverage and treatment would be the most effective way to prevent such events. I'd wager a dollar to a doughnut that the shooter has no effective access to a psychiatrist... which is what he needed most, apparently, for several years now.

If I do a search for "high capacity glock magazine", I come up with plenty of references for a 33 round 9mm magazine. Banning high capacity magazines won't make much difference. Magazines are not hard to make if you know how. Only law abiding citizens abide by the law. Criminals and mentally disturbed people do not. It's not enough to say "We can't do anything about this sort of attack". We can. We each have to be watching each others backs and be prepared to do something when we see a threat. I don't advocate that we all become anti-terrorism specialists, but keep our eyes open and try to prevent this from happening. One armed citizen might have made a difference.

Bella,truly believe found mutual ground Sister!

Before I retired from the Military back in 95, there was a shooting at a Military Base were an Enlisted Member was discharged for mental conditions. The individual was pleading for help and wanted help, but they discharged him anyway. A couple days later, he returned with a rifle to the Clinic and opened fired killing many and was killed by Security Police if I remember right! Someplace I still have the article, because I knew this would happen again and again to no end!

Remember the Fort Hood Shooting, the Major who just happened to be a psychologist OF ALL THINGS TO BE and Military Investigations and FBI was watching this fella,had him in there crosshairs making contact outside of the US with a known terrorist and then goes and shoots up a chow hall!

Connect the dots, someone knew and they did nothing!!!!

Officials sitting on their hands and doing nothing, that's it!

And Bella about the Mental Health question, YOU AND I SEE EYE TO EYE ON THIS ONE!

Come sit behind my desk and you will see firsthand how mental health is swept under the rug!

There you go, we are going to solve this problem by banning High-Capacity Magazines and not find the real solution to this heinous act. That’s it, blame the magazine and hang it high and perhaps the perpetrator will assist you in doing it!

You failed to notice the experts on this are all saying the real problem isn’t the gun laws are broken, it’s our mental health rules and regulations and the way we go about it that are broken. Numerous of people including officials knew this person and didn’t do diddly squat!

For less than $50 bucks, I can have it delivered to my house and it makes a nice 2 gallon cocktail of deadly poisonous gas. In some countries, it’s the machete just as or deadlier than a firearm.

So who needs a gun to do a heinous act, need to fix the problem not mask the symptoms. This person was turned away at the first Walmart store made no attempt to contact authorities and purchased the ammo at another outside the area who didn’t know him.

The Locals knew him and the all sat on their hands!

“At first glance, it may seem odd or even perverse to suggest that statutory controls on the private ownership of firearms are irrelevant to the problem of armed crime: yet that is precisely what the evidence shows. Armed crime and violent crime generally are products of ethnic and social factors unrelated to the availability of a particular type of weapon. The number of firearms required to satisfy the crime market is minute, and these are supplied no matter what controls are instituted. Controls have had serious effect on legitimate users of firearms, but there is no case, either in the history of this country (Britain) or in the experience of other countries in which controls can be shown to have restricted the flow of weapons to criminals, or in any way reduce crime.”
-Chief Inspector Colins Greenwood, West Yorkshire Constabulary, Police Review, Britain after six months of study of firearms control systems at Cambridge University

I did some research and guess what, it is illegal to kill people in every state (note:sarcasm). If this guy was willing to break that law (and moral obscenity) I doubt that he would have any qualms about buying and using any sized magazine regardless of how many laws are in the books.

Occasionally I agree completely with Clay (and even gave him a point!).
Mental health care was gutted in this country because politicians didn't want to fund it and because thoughtless greedy people got the mental hospitals closed so they could sell the land out from under them. Then the community mental health clinics that were supposed to replace the closed mental hospitals were never funded either. So we fill our jails with the insane because the hospitals we used to put 'em in don't exist anymore. But you gotta break the law at a felony level before they jail you, so the tripwire amok loonies get to wander until they go off. Then after the carnage comes the hand wringing.But people would rather blame inanimate objects than attempt to fix failing social institutions like the mental health system.
I say, be glad he only used a gun, Bombs are easy to make and are far more lethal. Because he was using a Glock, he could be stopped by tackling him.
May we find unity again some day Clay...

people will always hurt and kill each other, with or without guns, or any weapons for that matter. if weapons are banned they will use other things

Our society is to blame for this tragedy! We have gotten to a point in society that people think the mentally deranged have the same rights as we do when time and time again they prove otherwise. This guy was a mental illiterate and should have been locked up either in a jail or more likely suitable a mental health facility. He showed signs for years based from people around him that he was phsychotic and mentally deranged. There are no excuses for this man to be walking in the general public, he is/was a danger to people around him and himself yet no one done anything about it. When will people wake up realize certain people need help before they kill someone or themselves because after that it is a mute point.

As for the other mental illiterates in our congress and the sheriff of Pima county, blaming right wing radio and news on this tragedy they should be removed from office and their jobs. Them blaming anyone other than this b@$t@rd guy for the crime "HE COMMITTED", is assinine and utterly ignorant at the least. Also with them pointing fingers at others as they portray themselves inoccent of anything they are committing the crime they are saying the right wing media is responsible for, in this tragedy. Pull your heads from your rectum and breath a little oxygen because you are brain dead!

Walt, the adjacent county to the north is Maricopa County, the home of Sheriff Joe Arpaio. If this heinous act would of happened in Phoenix, I guarantee you he wouldn't be pointing his finger at the media instead he would be looking at were the system broke down at. I'll bet the Sheriff of Pima County is trying his best to do damage control to shift the spotlight away from them. I do know back in the 90's, Sheriff Joe Arpaio didn't hesitate to provide security and traffic control even for a best low rider event.

and they see were that got them the first time even know i dont have a gun that can take a magazie i might have to go out and stock up i hi-cap magizens you never know when thell come in handy wehn the terrosit are running around

Listening to this Pima County Sheriff, instead of building a case, he's running his mouth. Now if a Deputy or Police Officer did the same thing, they would be suspended without pay or behind a desk not behind a microphone!

Also come to find out, this fella has been arrested several of times and no criminal record that would have prevented him in buying ammunition and possessing a firearm. You watch, some friend or relative works in Pima County!

I'm on the wagon with the general atmosphere here. I agree that keeping a nut from buying a gun should be tha answer, not banning anything.

I have a couple thoughts to knock around, though. I am not saying these to stir the pot, I myself would like to know the best answer. These questions trouble me a great deal over the last few decades:

a. Identifying such people. How, without violating some civil right? I once thought a tattoo mark, or some permanant visible thing would do it, but my friends thought that was horrid. The databases for people like this are state, county, or even local. They don't cross-reference, and people will slip by.

b. Ban high-cap mags. This REALLY bothers me. The antis won't ever give up. Whenever they get any victory, like the '88 machine gun "freeze", they will quickly go after another thing, with a precedent set. If you ask a bunch of people to define 'high-cap', you will possibly get a range of answers. The people who want to ban any magazines want that number as low as possible. Like over 2. These are the same people who wanted to ban any rifle that had ever been used as a sniper weapon in any military banned under the "high powered sniper rifle" law. That would have affected any Springfield, Mauser, Garand, Moisen, etc. Once you ban any number, you will find it being legislated smaller.

c. More guns would have helped? I have carried 15 years in two states. Concealed permits have exclusions. Among these are bars, schools, and yes, political rallies or events. So a citizen pulling and dropping the puke would probably have been prosecuted somehow.

d. I've read that a legislator, as we speak, is starting a law that if passed, will make it illegal to carry a gun "within 1000 feet of a legistator or other government official". How do you stay innocent of that? If I walk down my street, if the mayor drives by, I am breaking the law. How long untill people start bending that one every which way? I drive down a main commuter route. On one side of the road is a school. Am I a criminal for having my pistol with me? You can nail anyone you want pretty easily now.

My worry? Who cares if the state gices you a carry permit if the law excludes it from every square foot of the state? What then?

Any proposed magazine ban is nothing more than political grand-standing. I'm sure many here remember the ban on hi-cap mags. Did anyone have trouble buying hi-cap mags in those years? I sure as hell didn't have a problem finding "pre-ban" mags. Yeah, they brought a premium price, but you could still get them easily. As someone already stated, this guy was intent on MURDER, so what good would any new laws do to prevent this? No weapons at political rallies, jeeze, yeah he's gonna decide not to kill someone because there's a new law that says he can't bring a gun to a rally?
I'm curious about something though, WHY was he truned down the first time he tried to buy ammo? I haven't heard the reason for that.
I agree that the real problem is that people with mental problems can freely buy guns, and more often than not don't get the medical care they need. I do not know the answer to this problem, but more restrictions on guns isn't gonna solve anything.

smaller magazine= more breaks to reload= better chance to stop the psycho sooner.

a deplorable act by a deranged individual that serves as a forum for every demagogue of a politician .

well this is regretable...shooting!!and i feell for the victoms..all involved....but making more gun laws is unconstitutional.....are fore fathers new that the right to keep and bear arms..had its dangers..but also..in there wisdom knew..that those that dont carrie and train with the same kind of weapons..that the constables..amd military..have at ther disposal...would leave our citizens .woffully.unable to resist against..tyranny..and unjust..denial of our other freedoms.remember...any man..that would give up any freedoms..for any.security..deserves..neither!!!

Mike Diehl

According to the publication for Obama Care, only 8,000 people in the Nation actually require it, not the hole entire frigging Nation!

So what about the 8,000? Why is everyone have to cover those other who are not in the 8,000 listed?

It's all about money and control of people.

Now back to the mental health issue, it wouldn't be hard at all to have a group of individuals those in Congress and Senate including some REAL DOCTORS" sit down and come up with a simple plan for those who pose a danger to society. If the a couple of Joes from the NRA can come up with a plan for 3 strikes and your out, and actual way to control who gets, receives and the position of guns and ammunition, then these Bozo's should be able to come up with a plan without politicizing this fringing mess!

Up north in Maricopa County and I just got off the phone talking to a Sheriffs Office, we cannot think of why they would have an event without some sort of security there, uniformed or not!