


March 10, 2009
Cermele: Welcome Back Bugs & Goobers
By Joe Cermele

Though I'm not sure it's going to continue, for the moment it's pretty warm outside. Kinda feels like spring is approaching. Not wanting to waste a 65-degree day in March, I made my first trip of the season to one of my favorite trout streams in Pennsylvania's Pocono Mountains last weekend. And I was delighted to see bugs. Stoneflies were coming off, though not too heavily, and the trout were eating them, though not too heavily.
Yes, it appears the warm days woke up the bugs. And as per usual, it also woke up the first goobers of the season. I fished many popular rivers all winter without seeing another soul. First day over 60 and there I stood with another flycaster just downstream, a little closer than I liked, who was trying to be covert about rubbing a little green Power Bait on his nymphs. But I caught him and he knew it.
"I like to put a little scent on them," he said. "I like to fish alone," was on the tip of my tongue. For one thing, adding any scent to flies in a fly-only section of river (which this was) is illegal in PA. It's also the ultimate fly sin in my opinion. If you need to dress flies with Power Bait, just grab a spinning rod and use the damn Power Bait. Split shot, sink tips, strike indicators, and synthetic materials have already taken a lot of "fly" out of "fly fishing," but I use all of them. However, scent is crossing the line. Are you with me?
JC
Comments (35)
You bet. Flyfishing is about imitating the appearance of aquatic organisms, fooling the fish's sense of sight, not smell or taste. Split shot, sink tips, strike indicators, and synthetic materials do not affect the attractiveness of the fly, other than putting that imitation at the visual level of the fish.
I see what your saying and I agree especially because it was a fly only section, but i don't blame a guy for wanting to catch a few fish on a fly rod its a different feeling then using spinning rod.
I agree, that "fly" fisherman may as well have slapped on a treble hook and a gob of worms...bait fishing (and thats what power bait is) has its time and place but not on a fly only stretch of water...
Scent, juice ... I'm with ya on this one!
"It's also the ultimate fly sin in my opinion. If you need to dress flies with Power Bait, just grab a spinning rod and use the damn Power Bait."
I agree, and what he was doing was down right un-American!
He evidently didn't have the confidence or faith that his fly was going to do the trick without the "juice!"
He probably had that A-Rod, Bond syndrome, enough ain't enough, so let's get the juice out! There ought to be a crime against that!
If you weren't there, he may have pulled out one of those ACME sinkers, they used in the Road Runner cartoons.
Two thumbs up!
The way I see it is the dry fly only guy looks down on the nympher. The nympher looks down on the guy using the strike indicator. The indicator guys look down on the streamer guys. Streamer guys look down on the flashy synthetic material guys. The flashy material synthetic streamer guys looks down on the guy using nearly the exact lure but using a spinning rod. Ultimately we get to the worm dunking cane pole using stringer carrying never heard of catch and release meat fishing in your favorite hole guy who has no one to look down on. Somewhere in that chain is the guy whom scents his fly.
I say WE ARE ALL FISHERMAN and welcome to the club.
On the subject of scenting your fly. I think if we all confessed our sins to similar actions we would find ourselves in a very large majority.
Was he using the cream or the clear?
Deeter, if you're talking about liquid PB, neither. My man had a jar of neon green PB trout putty. He'd pinch a little off and work it into the fly with his fingers.
Someone didn't like my comment? Must be a dry fly guy. lol.
I say no way Cermele or Deeter has never hooked on a real bug, crawdad or minnow when the fishing was slow. I once hooked on a crawfish and caught a 4 lb smallie with my fly rod. There you have it. I've confessed. I was young and stupid but hey, I caught an dang nice fish.
Buckhunter...you argue a fine case my friend, and I'll admit I've done some sinister things to fool fish, but live bait or scent or Mike's Salmon eggs on the fly rod is not one of them.
The way I look it at, you leave the house with a fly rod because you want to fly fish. If I want to drift worms or leeches or whatever, I'll grab the spinning gear that day. I'm no fly purist, but I can't understand mixing both.
buckhunter raises a valid point: who among us hasnt 'hedged our bet' a little?
let ye without sin cast the first fly, er, stone...
myself, I spit on my nymphs, its works!
is that cheating?
Oh, I once fancied the "garden hackle" in younger days... And buckhunter, you make a very good point about a looking down on b, b looking down on c... none of which is very productive to be sure.
What I do have a problem with is baitfishing in fly only water. And when you use scent, what you're really doing is baitfishing. Plain and simple. If someone can explain to me how scent on a fly does not make that fly for all intents and purposes, bait, I'm all ears.
Joe, I say anything goes (that's legal) if that's what you want to do. Don't get me wrong. I'm just a few flies short of purist myself ( i own over 30 fly rods. hell i'm crazy) but if a guy wants to spice up his fly I say "let him be free". Us fly guys have a bad habit of judging other fishing practices and placing them in a sort of pecking order. In fact we do it with hunting to. Bowhunters vs crossbows and so forth. I say a hunter is a hunter and a fisherman is a fisherman. period. We all share the same field and stream (how about that!) and should learn to get along.
look down on the streamer guys? I thought they were at the top of the list...
I have a sort of funny, not so funny story about this subject. I had a really good purist fly fishing buddy of mine dying of cancer. I would tease him while we were fishing that at his eulogy I was going to mention the time he placed a worm at the end of his fly rod. That drove him crazy. Of course my buddy never did any such thing and I was kidding but it took our minds off of things for awhile. Mike passed in 1999.
On behalf of Mike, any one whom bait his fly line is lower then low scum that doesn't deserve to walk in the same water as him and might as well go to the grocery store to get his fish because it's just as easy!
I completely agree with you Carmele. Fly fishing is about being smarter than the fish and fooling them with your flies and the presentation you give them. If you want to put scent on their, go get a lure or some live bait but dont cheat fly fishing.
Reminds me of my fishing trip last year in Oklahoma. Some kid was running up to the truck to get more "pork" for his father and buddies down in the stream we would stop at down from the hotel. I got out of the truck with my tan Columbia PFG shirt, Tan Pants, Black knee high rubber boots (great for the briars and mud). The kid came up to my friend who was driving and asked what we were there for, I said to do some fishing, pulled out the rods, and then grabbed my tan Orvis guide hat with the wide brim and put it on. The kid saw the hat, looked at me and my friend, and took off with his bait down to where his father was. Then we heard him yell out, "{the game warden's coming!" So here we are walking over the dam, both dressed in tan outfits, me in the wide brimmed hat, and all you could hear is "get those coolers out of here!" and "pick up them beer cans!" and "get rid of those fish!" and "let's get out of here!"
Boy did I ever see 4 guys and 2 kids move soo fast, and the best part was that they thought we were the game wardens.
As for bait on a fly line, or scenting flies, that's not too kosher in my book. I rank that right up there behind being a poacher.
Its cheating, plain and simple, I think of it as a sin to fly fishing. Its like bating deer to you're spot, if you can't get the fish to eat the fly by how you move it, don't fly fish...
AP
Cermele, you don't have to be a fly purist to get respect, it just helps...
Just to see what would happen I tried a bit of scent on one fly on a double rig. I noticed no difference. But just one stint on one river (in legal areas). Even if it did work it's just not worth it. It wasn't fun - smell, mess, hassle. Besides it's illegal in Michigan flies only water. Not hard for the DNR to tell, by the smell, if someone is using. Even if you used the stuff in legal area and carried it through flies only you're just asking for a citation.
I do all kinds of fishing, but when I go fly fishing it is to fool the fish with a sight pattern. I f I want to scent fish, I put the fly rod away.
it seems that fly fishing (now with poppers and flies with lips like rapalas) is becoming more like spin fishing. I know several fly fishing "snobs" who would never do any kind of fishing other than fly fishing, but their fly boxes have poppers and lipped flies and they talk about retrieval rates.
If you are going to do this, or put powerbait on the fly, spin fishing is cheaper than doing it with a fly rod and reel.
I agree with Charley it defeats the whole purpose of fly fishing
I agree, scenting is for bait fishing, not fly fishing.
i went out in connecticut that sunday that new england was bombarded by the nor' easter. 10 ,snow, and a wicked wind. a 14 foot aluminum boat doesnt hold heat to well, but it helped my cabin fever. no fish but spring is coming
Cheating ain't cheating if you don't get caught, holds true to most all people, sad but true. I fly fished as a kid, used nothing but dry flies because that is all I knew. 30+ years later and am getting back into the fly fishing method. I just picked up a nice new Albright fly reel and rod, I am doing this because it just seems a little more simple and really back to basics as I see it and when it comes to the basics there should be no cheating. Shame on the fool who wants to cheat.
In a fly only section of river the guy was in the wrong legally. Besides I can't remember PB dough working on much of anything but dumb stockers. In cases where legality is not an issue well powerbait is a poor choice to scent a fly. Your supposed to squish some caddis larvae or night crawlers on it. Real Nice.
Seriously though if your fish are dough eating stockers or matching the hatch isn't working there are egg patterns, worm patterns, flures of many ilks, and many more. All may push the definition of a fly to its end but not quite over the edge.
I agree with the legal arguement. If the water has open regs, whatever floats your boat. Fly fisherman are definitely in the minority when we start complaining that a lure or tactic is "too effective". Offshore anglers would look at you like you had 3 heads. JC, I confess you made me hit the regs book on this one. I thought all approved waters were closed from 3/1 til opening day. I didn't realize that there were early season waters prior to the SE opener.
Jcarlin...in most fly-only conservation stretches, PA and NJ, there is no closed season. So you thought I was breaking the law, eh? Kidding.
JC
It occurred to me, but as usual it was a sign of my own ignorance which I rectified before responding. I first made a fly cast last season so the fly only regs haven't been much of a concern to me other than to avoid the waters.
First off, if you are fishing a fly & lure only section/area in Colorado, it is illegal. Secondly, if you are a true fly fisherman, I don't know that you would ever consider it. You may as well put a Zebco 303 on your fly rod with some 10 lb. mono and go at it that way...just my two cents... !)
Flyfishing= imatiating food
Baitfishing= feeding them food!!
JH
wow, i can definetly appreciate fly fishing only sections of the river, and not using and enhancers on those sections, however i am a life long fisherman and i have given up flyfishing because of purist flyfishermen who have forgotten the essence of fishing. its fun and it can put dinner on the table if you choose to keep fish. i understand the elitism of flyfishing and all of that, but we are losing outdoorsmen at the cyclic rate, so please dont try to alienate those of us who dont fly fish, or cheat unless the law is being broken then all bets are off.
Dean...No one is alienating anyone. If you've read any of my other posts, you'll quickly learn that I am no purist fly fisherman. I'm into all kinds of fishing. My point with this post is that a) he was doing something illegal, and b) If you want to go out and fish Power Bait, there's no shame in that. But I don't get the advantage of mixing bait and fly other than not wanting to learn to be a good fly fisherman, or just downright breaking rules. I'd bet that if this wasn't a fly only stretch, this guy would not have opted to even use fly gear...which is totally cool.
J.C. please dont think i feel alienated by anyone here, and by all means i did not mean anyone here in the forum. i do think that if some one is doing something illegal then they should be called out on it. thats just poor sportmanship (breaking the rules, that is). im stationed in Eastern NC and we dont have too many shops specializing in fly equipment, i was meaning the several guys i have run into in the mountains in western NC. unfortunately they were of the opinion that if it wasnt flyfishing then it wasnt fishing at all. i wasnt even fishing for trout, i was fishing for muskies.
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The way I see it is the dry fly only guy looks down on the nympher. The nympher looks down on the guy using the strike indicator. The indicator guys look down on the streamer guys. Streamer guys look down on the flashy synthetic material guys. The flashy material synthetic streamer guys looks down on the guy using nearly the exact lure but using a spinning rod. Ultimately we get to the worm dunking cane pole using stringer carrying never heard of catch and release meat fishing in your favorite hole guy who has no one to look down on. Somewhere in that chain is the guy whom scents his fly.
I say WE ARE ALL FISHERMAN and welcome to the club.
On the subject of scenting your fly. I think if we all confessed our sins to similar actions we would find ourselves in a very large majority.
Joe, I say anything goes (that's legal) if that's what you want to do. Don't get me wrong. I'm just a few flies short of purist myself ( i own over 30 fly rods. hell i'm crazy) but if a guy wants to spice up his fly I say "let him be free". Us fly guys have a bad habit of judging other fishing practices and placing them in a sort of pecking order. In fact we do it with hunting to. Bowhunters vs crossbows and so forth. I say a hunter is a hunter and a fisherman is a fisherman. period. We all share the same field and stream (how about that!) and should learn to get along.
You bet. Flyfishing is about imitating the appearance of aquatic organisms, fooling the fish's sense of sight, not smell or taste. Split shot, sink tips, strike indicators, and synthetic materials do not affect the attractiveness of the fly, other than putting that imitation at the visual level of the fish.
I see what your saying and I agree especially because it was a fly only section, but i don't blame a guy for wanting to catch a few fish on a fly rod its a different feeling then using spinning rod.
I agree, that "fly" fisherman may as well have slapped on a treble hook and a gob of worms...bait fishing (and thats what power bait is) has its time and place but not on a fly only stretch of water...
Scent, juice ... I'm with ya on this one!
"It's also the ultimate fly sin in my opinion. If you need to dress flies with Power Bait, just grab a spinning rod and use the damn Power Bait."
I agree, and what he was doing was down right un-American!
He evidently didn't have the confidence or faith that his fly was going to do the trick without the "juice!"
He probably had that A-Rod, Bond syndrome, enough ain't enough, so let's get the juice out! There ought to be a crime against that!
If you weren't there, he may have pulled out one of those ACME sinkers, they used in the Road Runner cartoons.
Two thumbs up!
Was he using the cream or the clear?
Deeter, if you're talking about liquid PB, neither. My man had a jar of neon green PB trout putty. He'd pinch a little off and work it into the fly with his fingers.
Someone didn't like my comment? Must be a dry fly guy. lol.
I say no way Cermele or Deeter has never hooked on a real bug, crawdad or minnow when the fishing was slow. I once hooked on a crawfish and caught a 4 lb smallie with my fly rod. There you have it. I've confessed. I was young and stupid but hey, I caught an dang nice fish.
Buckhunter...you argue a fine case my friend, and I'll admit I've done some sinister things to fool fish, but live bait or scent or Mike's Salmon eggs on the fly rod is not one of them.
The way I look it at, you leave the house with a fly rod because you want to fly fish. If I want to drift worms or leeches or whatever, I'll grab the spinning gear that day. I'm no fly purist, but I can't understand mixing both.
buckhunter raises a valid point: who among us hasnt 'hedged our bet' a little?
let ye without sin cast the first fly, er, stone...
myself, I spit on my nymphs, its works!
is that cheating?
Oh, I once fancied the "garden hackle" in younger days... And buckhunter, you make a very good point about a looking down on b, b looking down on c... none of which is very productive to be sure.
What I do have a problem with is baitfishing in fly only water. And when you use scent, what you're really doing is baitfishing. Plain and simple. If someone can explain to me how scent on a fly does not make that fly for all intents and purposes, bait, I'm all ears.
Its cheating, plain and simple, I think of it as a sin to fly fishing. Its like bating deer to you're spot, if you can't get the fish to eat the fly by how you move it, don't fly fish...
AP
Jcarlin...in most fly-only conservation stretches, PA and NJ, there is no closed season. So you thought I was breaking the law, eh? Kidding.
look down on the streamer guys? I thought they were at the top of the list...
I completely agree with you Carmele. Fly fishing is about being smarter than the fish and fooling them with your flies and the presentation you give them. If you want to put scent on their, go get a lure or some live bait but dont cheat fly fishing.
Reminds me of my fishing trip last year in Oklahoma. Some kid was running up to the truck to get more "pork" for his father and buddies down in the stream we would stop at down from the hotel. I got out of the truck with my tan Columbia PFG shirt, Tan Pants, Black knee high rubber boots (great for the briars and mud). The kid came up to my friend who was driving and asked what we were there for, I said to do some fishing, pulled out the rods, and then grabbed my tan Orvis guide hat with the wide brim and put it on. The kid saw the hat, looked at me and my friend, and took off with his bait down to where his father was. Then we heard him yell out, "{the game warden's coming!" So here we are walking over the dam, both dressed in tan outfits, me in the wide brimmed hat, and all you could hear is "get those coolers out of here!" and "pick up them beer cans!" and "get rid of those fish!" and "let's get out of here!"
Boy did I ever see 4 guys and 2 kids move soo fast, and the best part was that they thought we were the game wardens.
As for bait on a fly line, or scenting flies, that's not too kosher in my book. I rank that right up there behind being a poacher.
Cermele, you don't have to be a fly purist to get respect, it just helps...
Just to see what would happen I tried a bit of scent on one fly on a double rig. I noticed no difference. But just one stint on one river (in legal areas). Even if it did work it's just not worth it. It wasn't fun - smell, mess, hassle. Besides it's illegal in Michigan flies only water. Not hard for the DNR to tell, by the smell, if someone is using. Even if you used the stuff in legal area and carried it through flies only you're just asking for a citation.
I do all kinds of fishing, but when I go fly fishing it is to fool the fish with a sight pattern. I f I want to scent fish, I put the fly rod away.
it seems that fly fishing (now with poppers and flies with lips like rapalas) is becoming more like spin fishing. I know several fly fishing "snobs" who would never do any kind of fishing other than fly fishing, but their fly boxes have poppers and lipped flies and they talk about retrieval rates.
If you are going to do this, or put powerbait on the fly, spin fishing is cheaper than doing it with a fly rod and reel.
I agree with Charley it defeats the whole purpose of fly fishing
I agree, scenting is for bait fishing, not fly fishing.
i went out in connecticut that sunday that new england was bombarded by the nor' easter. 10 ,snow, and a wicked wind. a 14 foot aluminum boat doesnt hold heat to well, but it helped my cabin fever. no fish but spring is coming
Cheating ain't cheating if you don't get caught, holds true to most all people, sad but true. I fly fished as a kid, used nothing but dry flies because that is all I knew. 30+ years later and am getting back into the fly fishing method. I just picked up a nice new Albright fly reel and rod, I am doing this because it just seems a little more simple and really back to basics as I see it and when it comes to the basics there should be no cheating. Shame on the fool who wants to cheat.
In a fly only section of river the guy was in the wrong legally. Besides I can't remember PB dough working on much of anything but dumb stockers. In cases where legality is not an issue well powerbait is a poor choice to scent a fly. Your supposed to squish some caddis larvae or night crawlers on it. Real Nice.
Seriously though if your fish are dough eating stockers or matching the hatch isn't working there are egg patterns, worm patterns, flures of many ilks, and many more. All may push the definition of a fly to its end but not quite over the edge.
I agree with the legal arguement. If the water has open regs, whatever floats your boat. Fly fisherman are definitely in the minority when we start complaining that a lure or tactic is "too effective". Offshore anglers would look at you like you had 3 heads. JC, I confess you made me hit the regs book on this one. I thought all approved waters were closed from 3/1 til opening day. I didn't realize that there were early season waters prior to the SE opener.
JC
It occurred to me, but as usual it was a sign of my own ignorance which I rectified before responding. I first made a fly cast last season so the fly only regs haven't been much of a concern to me other than to avoid the waters.
First off, if you are fishing a fly & lure only section/area in Colorado, it is illegal. Secondly, if you are a true fly fisherman, I don't know that you would ever consider it. You may as well put a Zebco 303 on your fly rod with some 10 lb. mono and go at it that way...just my two cents... !)
wow, i can definetly appreciate fly fishing only sections of the river, and not using and enhancers on those sections, however i am a life long fisherman and i have given up flyfishing because of purist flyfishermen who have forgotten the essence of fishing. its fun and it can put dinner on the table if you choose to keep fish. i understand the elitism of flyfishing and all of that, but we are losing outdoorsmen at the cyclic rate, so please dont try to alienate those of us who dont fly fish, or cheat unless the law is being broken then all bets are off.
Dean...No one is alienating anyone. If you've read any of my other posts, you'll quickly learn that I am no purist fly fisherman. I'm into all kinds of fishing. My point with this post is that a) he was doing something illegal, and b) If you want to go out and fish Power Bait, there's no shame in that. But I don't get the advantage of mixing bait and fly other than not wanting to learn to be a good fly fisherman, or just downright breaking rules. I'd bet that if this wasn't a fly only stretch, this guy would not have opted to even use fly gear...which is totally cool.
J.C. please dont think i feel alienated by anyone here, and by all means i did not mean anyone here in the forum. i do think that if some one is doing something illegal then they should be called out on it. thats just poor sportmanship (breaking the rules, that is). im stationed in Eastern NC and we dont have too many shops specializing in fly equipment, i was meaning the several guys i have run into in the mountains in western NC. unfortunately they were of the opinion that if it wasnt flyfishing then it wasnt fishing at all. i wasnt even fishing for trout, i was fishing for muskies.
I have a sort of funny, not so funny story about this subject. I had a really good purist fly fishing buddy of mine dying of cancer. I would tease him while we were fishing that at his eulogy I was going to mention the time he placed a worm at the end of his fly rod. That drove him crazy. Of course my buddy never did any such thing and I was kidding but it took our minds off of things for awhile. Mike passed in 1999.
On behalf of Mike, any one whom bait his fly line is lower then low scum that doesn't deserve to walk in the same water as him and might as well go to the grocery store to get his fish because it's just as easy!
Flyfishing= imatiating food
Baitfishing= feeding them food!!
JH
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