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Discussion Topic: Should Vandals Lose Outdoor Licenses?

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April 09, 2009

Discussion Topic: Should Vandals Lose Outdoor Licenses?

By Dave Hurteau

From the Ravalli Republic:

“Vandalism at state parks and fishing access sites has been an issue for a long time,” said Ron Aascheim of Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks. “Between 2006 and 2008, we had $36,000 of damages done at just fishing access sites … it is a big deal. . . .”

[A] new law would require a judge to suspend hunting, fishing and trapping rights for two years for anyone convicted of criminal mischief in a case involving vandalism to a state owned site.

[A] portion of the new law is [focused] on . . . hard-core illegal antler hunters who sneak onto the wildlife management areas before the mid-May opening to get a jumpstart on the season. . . .

“[S]portsmen’s dollars have been used to purchase wildlife management areas around the state. They are set aside as winter range to protect big game.”



Any kind of disturbance can be detrimental to the animals. . . .

“These places need to be kept secure,” he said.

What do you think? Should vandals or trespassers lose their hunting and fishing rights?

Comments (17)

Top Rated
All Comments
from T_Mac wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Yes, I think they should lose hunting and fishing privileges. But growing in Montana, most of the people vandalizing sites that I knew of (other high school students) weren't sportsmen... Obviously, the illegal antler hunters are, though.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from peter wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

i guess its a good idea but it seems pretty harse

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

How are illegal shed antler hunters "sportsmen"? They are scofflaws at best! Being a sportsman is not just any dipstick with a plaid shirt, a 4x4, and a gun tooling around in the outdoors. Being a sportsman implies following establish rules and ethics that protect and conserve the resource. Vandalism and disturbing winter range wildlife does not fit into the "sportsman" model.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I like the intent of the law but not the assumption that the vandels were outdoorsman to begin with.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from idahooutdoors wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Always hard to catch these guys in the act out on the huge chunks of public ground in the Mountain West. Some of these guys may think twice though if they loose their hunting rights as opposed to just a fine.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from 2Poppa wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Dropped off in the middle of the night?

These guys aren't hunters!
They are thieves with criminal intent, operating under the cover of darkness,stealing valued resources, perhaps, even at the cost of violence.
My first question would be, "what else have you stolen, without being caught?"

I always tell my teenage children,"nothing good happens after ten o'clock at night."

Should vandals or trespassers lose their hunting and fishing rights?

Yes, while they are serving time in jail, they won't be able to hunt or fish,just time to think about their dastardly deed.

Then after serving their time, they should accompany a few conservation officers, and be made to work outside during the summer/winter,repairing, replacing and in general, making the parks a better place for the rest of the law abiding citizens ... free labor at it's best!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from jjas wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

If caught (and convicted) of the listed offenses I agree these people's hunting/fishing rights should be suspended.
My only other suggestion would be that when you are convicted and your hunting/fishing privileges are taken I wish there was a reciprical agreement between all the states and the priviliges would be suspended nationwide for the same length of time.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from wallofsam wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Only if they are sportsman, if not, compensate for it on top of losing their licenses. Make them do community service by working in the park for the entire summer as partial restitution. Scumbags, like the people who do stuff like this, have been getting off to lightly for yeaars.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from OrangeNeckInNY wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

No, they should be made to do community service at the sites they've vandalized. This way, they don't become resentful about losing their hunting/fishing privileges and they'll learn to have respect for the land and waters.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from steve182 wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

When i was a kid in Highschool, we partied (imagine that) at several different boat-ramp facilities. Usually these places were out of the way, had parking lots, and were relatively empty at night. I personally never engaged in vandalism, but i'm sure thate some did. That may be what is happening here. Although if it was found to be perpetrated by sportsman...by all means, hit'm where it hurts and suspend their priveledges. Not sure why it's illegal to shed hunt these areas, but thems the rules.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from dwaynez wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

The vandals should be forced to work at the state park and repair any damage they have done, if they are not handy with tools then they can clean toilets and drain all of the rv septic tanks in the state park.

They should have to wear a sign that designates they destroyed something beautiful and now they are having to pay for their crimes.

Their rights to fish and hunt should be revoked, a lifetime ban is what is needed to send a clear message that if you damage or deface a state park you will suffer stiff penalties.

They should also be forced to go to local schools and admit their crimes to the children who are future outdoorsmen and women and face total humiliation for their crimes.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Paul Wilke wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I'm thinking that for most vandals( kids under 18) the better choice would be a summer spent on habitat improvement. Even sign repair, building painting , stream improvement or trail building could create a since of pride in their work, and a reluctance to do vandalism to their own work
That could keep them in the outdoors and keep them interested in the future.
A loss of privileges could carry over to a lifetime of indifference, and we would lose one more hunter or fisherman.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from HuntersDad wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I agree with Paul at the rate the outdoors which we all love is losing young people to video games and other activities why encourage that loss by banning these vandals. And instead try to instill a love of the outdoors by having them do some sort of community service inside the park.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Hmm. Why should a vandal lose hunting and fishing privileges for defiling state park property if it had nothing to do with hunting or fishing? That would be like revoking my waterfowl stamp for a speeding ticket on the way to Safeway. If the damage or violation impacts fish and wildlife, revoke the license. If not, criminal penalties are appropriate. Revoke their driving privilegs; that way they can't drive out to the state land!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Derek St.Romain wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

they should be called criminals, not sportsmen. I do not know of anyone that i hunt or fish or shoot with, gun or bow, that would engage in any of this criminal activity. They should lose their priveledges for life if you ask me..(not killed, licenses for life just to clarify, I'm not that nuts!) And, a few thousand hours working for the wildlife n fish dept. cleaning others abuses wouldn't hurt either.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Scottdamott wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I don't understand the illegal antler hunting part of this, is there a antler hunting season? And is that season just on State lands or everywhere? Is it just as illegal to pick up a cool walking stick? I don't really understand how shed antler hunting is hurting the deer and elk, is it illegal to hike through these Public lands? Is there also a season on picking wild flowers? Wouldn't that be more detrimental to the wild life than antler hunting, seeming that Im sure that some animals use wild flowers as a source of food.

As for the bored vandals, slap them with a fine and some community service fixing thier mess and more. Hang a probation period over thier heads with some jail time attached. Hell even if they don't catch the vandals take it upon yourself to fix the problems, remember PUBLIC land is your land also, so take care of it, this will give us outdoors men more credibility. (Of course there is always the likely chance that painting over graffiti or fixing a broken picnic table or bench on your own accord would be looked at by the State as a crime so watch out for that)

Sorry for my ignorance on the shed antlers, but I got to think if your goin to get dropped off after dark and go find some shed antlers youve got some keen eyesight, cause I have a hard enough time finding them during the day, let alone at night using a flashlight. Hell I have a hard enough time finding a shot deer at night let alone just the antlers! I just don't get why theres a season on inanimate objects? Especially on public land.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I think they should deffinantly get their fishing/hunting rights suspended for a certain period of time. When they do such illegal activities, they are not benefiting anyone but themselves and slapping all the hunters and fishermen right in the face. I really do think that some jail time should be a consideration....

+1 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

from WA Mtnhunter wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

How are illegal shed antler hunters "sportsmen"? They are scofflaws at best! Being a sportsman is not just any dipstick with a plaid shirt, a 4x4, and a gun tooling around in the outdoors. Being a sportsman implies following establish rules and ethics that protect and conserve the resource. Vandalism and disturbing winter range wildlife does not fit into the "sportsman" model.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from 2Poppa wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Dropped off in the middle of the night?

These guys aren't hunters!
They are thieves with criminal intent, operating under the cover of darkness,stealing valued resources, perhaps, even at the cost of violence.
My first question would be, "what else have you stolen, without being caught?"

I always tell my teenage children,"nothing good happens after ten o'clock at night."

Should vandals or trespassers lose their hunting and fishing rights?

Yes, while they are serving time in jail, they won't be able to hunt or fish,just time to think about their dastardly deed.

Then after serving their time, they should accompany a few conservation officers, and be made to work outside during the summer/winter,repairing, replacing and in general, making the parks a better place for the rest of the law abiding citizens ... free labor at it's best!

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from buckhunter wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I like the intent of the law but not the assumption that the vandels were outdoorsman to begin with.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from idahooutdoors wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Always hard to catch these guys in the act out on the huge chunks of public ground in the Mountain West. Some of these guys may think twice though if they loose their hunting rights as opposed to just a fine.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from jjas wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

If caught (and convicted) of the listed offenses I agree these people's hunting/fishing rights should be suspended.
My only other suggestion would be that when you are convicted and your hunting/fishing privileges are taken I wish there was a reciprical agreement between all the states and the priviliges would be suspended nationwide for the same length of time.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from OrangeNeckInNY wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

No, they should be made to do community service at the sites they've vandalized. This way, they don't become resentful about losing their hunting/fishing privileges and they'll learn to have respect for the land and waters.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Paul Wilke wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I'm thinking that for most vandals( kids under 18) the better choice would be a summer spent on habitat improvement. Even sign repair, building painting , stream improvement or trail building could create a since of pride in their work, and a reluctance to do vandalism to their own work
That could keep them in the outdoors and keep them interested in the future.
A loss of privileges could carry over to a lifetime of indifference, and we would lose one more hunter or fisherman.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from T_Mac wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Yes, I think they should lose hunting and fishing privileges. But growing in Montana, most of the people vandalizing sites that I knew of (other high school students) weren't sportsmen... Obviously, the illegal antler hunters are, though.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from peter wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

i guess its a good idea but it seems pretty harse

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from wallofsam wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Only if they are sportsman, if not, compensate for it on top of losing their licenses. Make them do community service by working in the park for the entire summer as partial restitution. Scumbags, like the people who do stuff like this, have been getting off to lightly for yeaars.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from steve182 wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

When i was a kid in Highschool, we partied (imagine that) at several different boat-ramp facilities. Usually these places were out of the way, had parking lots, and were relatively empty at night. I personally never engaged in vandalism, but i'm sure thate some did. That may be what is happening here. Although if it was found to be perpetrated by sportsman...by all means, hit'm where it hurts and suspend their priveledges. Not sure why it's illegal to shed hunt these areas, but thems the rules.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from dwaynez wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

The vandals should be forced to work at the state park and repair any damage they have done, if they are not handy with tools then they can clean toilets and drain all of the rv septic tanks in the state park.

They should have to wear a sign that designates they destroyed something beautiful and now they are having to pay for their crimes.

Their rights to fish and hunt should be revoked, a lifetime ban is what is needed to send a clear message that if you damage or deface a state park you will suffer stiff penalties.

They should also be forced to go to local schools and admit their crimes to the children who are future outdoorsmen and women and face total humiliation for their crimes.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from HuntersDad wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I agree with Paul at the rate the outdoors which we all love is losing young people to video games and other activities why encourage that loss by banning these vandals. And instead try to instill a love of the outdoors by having them do some sort of community service inside the park.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from WA Mtnhunter wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

Hmm. Why should a vandal lose hunting and fishing privileges for defiling state park property if it had nothing to do with hunting or fishing? That would be like revoking my waterfowl stamp for a speeding ticket on the way to Safeway. If the damage or violation impacts fish and wildlife, revoke the license. If not, criminal penalties are appropriate. Revoke their driving privilegs; that way they can't drive out to the state land!

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Derek St.Romain wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

they should be called criminals, not sportsmen. I do not know of anyone that i hunt or fish or shoot with, gun or bow, that would engage in any of this criminal activity. They should lose their priveledges for life if you ask me..(not killed, licenses for life just to clarify, I'm not that nuts!) And, a few thousand hours working for the wildlife n fish dept. cleaning others abuses wouldn't hurt either.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Scottdamott wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I don't understand the illegal antler hunting part of this, is there a antler hunting season? And is that season just on State lands or everywhere? Is it just as illegal to pick up a cool walking stick? I don't really understand how shed antler hunting is hurting the deer and elk, is it illegal to hike through these Public lands? Is there also a season on picking wild flowers? Wouldn't that be more detrimental to the wild life than antler hunting, seeming that Im sure that some animals use wild flowers as a source of food.

As for the bored vandals, slap them with a fine and some community service fixing thier mess and more. Hang a probation period over thier heads with some jail time attached. Hell even if they don't catch the vandals take it upon yourself to fix the problems, remember PUBLIC land is your land also, so take care of it, this will give us outdoors men more credibility. (Of course there is always the likely chance that painting over graffiti or fixing a broken picnic table or bench on your own accord would be looked at by the State as a crime so watch out for that)

Sorry for my ignorance on the shed antlers, but I got to think if your goin to get dropped off after dark and go find some shed antlers youve got some keen eyesight, cause I have a hard enough time finding them during the day, let alone at night using a flashlight. Hell I have a hard enough time finding a shot deer at night let alone just the antlers! I just don't get why theres a season on inanimate objects? Especially on public land.

+1 Good Comment? | | Report
from FloridaHunter1226 wrote 3 years 6 weeks ago

I think they should deffinantly get their fishing/hunting rights suspended for a certain period of time. When they do such illegal activities, they are not benefiting anyone but themselves and slapping all the hunters and fishermen right in the face. I really do think that some jail time should be a consideration....

+1 Good Comment? | | Report

Post a Comment

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