huntnow -

While I agree with your assessment that the toughest have come and gone, I am going to have to disagree with their willingness to accept the comforts we have. Almost without exception, all of the WWII generation I have encountered are gruff (at least on the exterior) and proud of the way they did it back then. I can only imagine how those who have passed would have viewed technology and advancements...most likely with disdain.

One great example is what passed for a hunting camp decades ago. Look for old photos, logs stacked into a shack no bigger than an outhouse, simply in a cave or under a large rock, cinderblock buildings with no bunks or stove. A lot of camps nowadays are elaborate tent set ups or family cabins...not what was a snakes den earlier in the summer!

I dunno.

I guess it would be correct to say that more gear is available today that makes it much easier and more comfortable for those who can afford it.

But it is not difficult to find people in less-populated areas and less-moneyed circumstances whose means of hunting has changed little since the end of WWI.

Is this the real Uncle Ted?

I don't know if the early frontiersmen were tougher than we are, but one thing that does stand out, is their resourcefulness;The ability to deal skillfully and promptly with new situations,difficulties and their relentless pursuit and exploration of a better life on the land they loved.

If they went huntin' in the rain, it certainly wasn't for pleasure, but for sustenance and survival. They knew the intricacies of fire starting in all types of weather conditions, life depended upon it. The axiom, "survivor of the fittest," certainly pertain to these hunters.
And therein, is the difference of the modern day hunter, versus the frontiersman of not so long ago, as history is measured.

Men back then, for the most part were never lost,they lived in the woods,were acquainted and prepared, or knew the lay of the land. They were much more intimate,not to mention wood and water wise.

They didn't have to worry about the distractions and obstacles as the modern day hunter does; such as, GPS's going dead for lack of power, text messages while in the woods that say,"honey on your way home, pick up some diapers," time constraints ... the list goes on!
I'm sure readers could comment more on modern day distractions found in the woods today.

A lot of modern day hunters, just as hunters of yesterday, still to some degree resist, the new fangled conveniences that are offered today. Once they become aquainted, realization trumps resistance.

I would say absolutely!
I would add, that hunters at the turn of the century were outdoors men first, hunters second,...now I believe that the situation is reversed....most of us new to hunting are shooters first, then hunters,...and lastly outdoors men.
I grew up in the City, had just enough scouting experience to whet my appetite for the outdoors, but I in no way consider myself and outdoorsman.
I say that because if you were to drop me off in the middle of 2 square miles of thick woods, I might not make it out...and although I gain more confidence with each journey into and safely back out of the woods, I still get uncomfortable in the woods especially in the dark,...the old timers were not only at home in the woods, but very adept at finding game in the woods.
I think many hunters now are field or plot hunters, maybe a few get back onto a draw or oak ridge but few simply head out in search of game,...those that do, I admire a good deal.

Tough guys are alive and well. The Army Rangers, Special Forces, Navy Seals, etc are full of them. The toughest man I ever met was an Airborne Ranger, SF instructor and member of Delta Force. He was also a survivor of jimmy carter's (no caps for him) failed Iran rescue mission but that is another story.

As for me I grew up hunting for food and fun in that order. Have never used a GPS and don't plan to anytime soon. Learn what a map and compass is for and you will never be lost because the battery went dead. No,I do not consider myself as tough as some of those guys.
The old timers did what they did because they had no other choice.

You might be right Dave. Inspired by previous posts, I looked at my old Jack O'Connor books. Photos revealed clothing that looks like it came from the "working man's section" at Sears.

You might be wrong Dave. I hunted with my son shortly after he returned from a USMC field trip to Falujah. It was wet, cold and miserable but he coped bettern than the "old timers" on the trip.

There still are plenty of tough guys out there, but most hunters certainly are not. I include myself these days in the latter lot. When I was in my 20s I once backpacked 45 miles in two days while carrying a 40-pound pack. I could walk all day in any sort of terrain until I got to be about 50. Now, at age 61 with arthritis and an artificial knee and hip, I do well to hobble around the block.

Speaking of the tough guys of previous generations, I remember reading in one of Teddy Roosevelt's books about him hunting mountain goats somewhere out west. He left camp on foot for several days with, as I remember, a packet of salt and some bread. His choice of diet still puzzles me, and I probably would have starved on those rations within two days. But Roosevelt didn't seem to pay it a second thought.

When I lived in Great Falls, MT my next door neighbor was an Air Force reserve colonel and a jet fighter pilot. He used to like to say to his young pilots, "You think you are tough?" Then he would tell them about the members of the Lewis & Clark Expedition, pulling boats up the Missouri River against the current, clad in mocassins and other substandard clothing, and living under primitive conditions that none of them could imagine.

A few years ago I read a wonderful book, the name of which escapes me, about party of explorers who went to Anarctica around the time of World War I. They got ice-bound, had to set out in rowboats, were gone a couple years. (Someone please help me out with the title!) It is a story of adventure, hardship, survival and toughness that left me in a state of awe.

Not related to hunters but the guys on deadliest catch, now there are some tough customers!

All kinds of tough guys out there,. now and before,..
if you look at cloths boots tools guns and knives from then
They didnt have near as good as we do now .
But actually not bad .
Still ,.anyone know of a cordless hammer drill from 1919.?
Anyone know of an air nailer from that time
No ,,. because it didnt exist.

One MOA acuuracy ?? : ) . they didnt know what that was or care . 3 inches at 100 yds was a tac driver : )
30-06 30-40s 30-30 45 -70 etc etc did the job .

Howevr ,. ( would venture) most of the hunters living in the squirrl shacks or old loggers barracks or tents ,. were not big shots from Chcicago New york or Philly ,.
They were mostly farmers ,or in some capacity, men of the land.

They had learned youg what to do to stay warm (mostly ) out side all day ,. they got up at 4am and went to bed when the light faded ,.

I never knew a guy my garndfathers age who was fat because no matter how much he ate it was burned off from activity IE: Work .

They were also used to less and the made due
And they were also many times dead at 60 +/-.

So is dead at 60 tuff or just worn out,.
I submit to you the latter .

Today we live longer becausse we know more science, and medicine, we eat better,. sleep better and are more comfortable. Yup thats right comforatble .

IE; not constantly feezing your A$$ off.
I never ran into a smart guy who practiced being wet cold and misserable, because thats just stupid .

But I have known guys who will brave ugly conditions to hunt
Also knew a guy my grand fathers age who always carried 1/2 an army pup tent. Just in case it rained or snowed like hell. To him it mant more time in the woods,.. Becase even thick wool coats wouldnt shed weater like a pice of tent canvas,.

Plus they knew back then it took time to hunt,,. no cell phones no inetrnet to telephones
They went hunting for days or weeks at a a time ,.. promarily for food the sport was second ,.
but he comarodrie ( sp ? ) was unavoidable.
.

I spent three days once,. in a pine bow liento,( sp ?) . it snowed,. it raned,. and it was foggy and then it turned colder that all billy hell.
I was mostly dry becusse the old guy running that show knew enough to get ready for bad weathet ,so we took no real hurt because we had a fire going constantly,.
The old guy actually shot a fat 6 pt buck from his place by the fire when it was raining.
He enever quit watching
Tougher ,.nah,. better shape sure ( from working ) but better able to survive due to wood craft they knew from the time they were ten.

Before I get to far down the trail would like to do that leinto thing again ,.. That reaay was something.

Tougher?? ,. I doubt
Better shape and ,. better prepared? ,. probably.

the generations before us were definitly tougher than we are today. i don't mean technology but the simple persistance and tolerance of poor conditions (be they in the field or in camp). hell, kids today don't even go out and play in the yard, instead they rot on video games and have a fraction of the outdoors exposure the generations before. at my place of employ we call it the continued pussification of america.

Humans do what we have to do with what we have. I don't think people were any tougher back then. I think they were tougher minded, though. Running water, flushing toilets, gas heat, and medical treatment were luxuries to many. And bug repellent? We have it and like it but we would do without if we had to.

Knowledge is the other thing. Going out for a few days or weeks or even months at a time seems to have been normal. They knew what they had to do to get by. Now if someone returns from being dislocated for more than a day or two we call them survivors.

Perhaps it is just the mentality. Unfortunately, survival is more print worthy than outdoorsmanship.

Dave,
Yes, there are great young men (and women) today that are damn tough. Yes, there are more who are not.
You cannot be tough without a drive and a reason, which can be military, family history, personal drive and where you choose to live. I have lived in AK for over 50 years and the number of tough are now mostly out of any metropolitan area and/or other area with cable tv. With SAT phones and all it is getting harder to even get away in AK. 911 calls inundate the cell phone range coverage for someone to come pick me up - I am cold and hungry or just tired.
As Professional Hunter and Outfitter for most of those 50+ years here in AK I now see more and more of the world turning to 5* Lodges with 'introduced' specie or fenced areas with special feed and gene pools, etc. Look at the SCI record books to see how they have been accommodated to recognize the prowess of hunting comfortably.
On this subject you could add another recommended reading list of books that cover some of the older days - I recommend a few, below, and having had the pleasure of visiting the book room at Campfire Club, briefly, I could have camped there for days just reading some I had never seen.
1. Hunting the Alaska Brown Bear - Eddy
2. Alaska Yukon Trophies Won and Lost - Young
3. Hunting in the Arctic and Alaska - Skull
4. From Out of the Yukon - James Bond
Please add some of the others you know better than I.

I think I could survive with a .22 pistol, ammo and appropriate attire just about anywhere as long as there is water.

I don't want to be "tough" no more! Enough sleeping in the rain and mud, cold and wind to do me a lifetime. No thanks, but I got enough practice in 7 1/2 years in the Army! LOL

Tell me who the tough guys are and I'll send them a postcard.

I know some pretty tough birds who still hunt the back north woods. They go in at grey dawn and come out tommorrow some time. These are men in their 60's carrying pump remmingtons.
They carry simple gear, just like the old timers.
Alas I am not one of them. I like sitting on ambush with my 6.5x55!

Tough guys (and gals) are to be admired, and some are even made into minor legends. As we get older, it is hard to be as tough as when we were younger. Do what you are able to do without getting crazy about it just to prove you are "one of the tough", and enjoy the hunt.

We all can choose to bring that toughness back! We are bigger, stronger and have more knowledge at our very fingertips than any man in the 1920s. It remains our CHOICE to be soft. Our CHOICE to stay on the couch. We must choose to NOT be soft or stay on that Godforsaken couch. We must only look backward to gain knowledge from our fathers and grandfathers or remember their time with us, but to remain there is to become stagnant. We must pick ourselves up and make it happen! Get back in the gym, walk an extra quarter or half mile, choose to scout an extra day this year...don't let yourself get caught up in being soft. It's up to us. Paul's expression of "straining ever forward" means a great deal even today.

YUK YUK

WA Mtn hunter
Made me laugh IE:( lOl ) and with the f ing weather were having in upper midwest thats a +1 for you

Like an episode of Scienfeld ( sp? )
"But I dont wanna be a pirate." YUK YUK

If tough means suffering I dont wanna be tough.
Or a G d Pirate : ) either.
To me the difference is smart or not smart .

Two different guys can go into the same circumstance. One will suffer and oe will not or at least a lot less.
You might call smart prepaired too ,. but the less suffering you do (usually) the better time you have and the more likley you are to do it again .
Or you figure out smart,. so you dont suffer the next time.

Tough is really a relative term ,.. am I toug enough to enhdure child birth < I wwoud have to say definitly NOT.
Am I as tough as Chineese a soldier in korea ,..armed with club or nothing ,.and no shes in the Korean winter,. charging American lines ,. nope I am not ,.
But Im not crazy either.

You can run with this debate back 2,000 years to the ice man who had the DNA of 4 different men on his flint knife, and carried bush craft goods and clothes made out of hide with fur. Speaking for the generation interconnect I can say we are pussies who phone the AC repairman when it gets hotter than 72 in the house, and when my toes get cold its time to "scout" for bedded dear. Regardless of conditions their are a few things we can do to regain some resemblance to previous men. Not complain, but problem solve. Build a fire without a match for the challenge. Fully process our own deer/fish/game. Build stairs on tower stands for very young and very old. Insist on a wood burning stove. Fish from a canoe, sleep in a tent, and take care not to injure back, fingers, etc when working. Walk more and ride less. These are a few tips on how modern girly- men can protect a few traits of the previousily tougher self.

In a word, "Wool". Lotsa wool.Once you get past the itch it's the warmest natural fiber. An example is wool socks will keep you warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

They simply made do with what they had. Dave I bet you saw alot of Savage 99's and Winchesters and Marlins in those articles because that's all thay had. In those days a peep sight was considered state of the art optics!

There are still tough people out there and you don't have to be an Airborn Ranger to be one. It's all state of mind. If you love to hunt you'll hunt cold and you'll hunt hungry. I know a bunch of fellows who back in November kept pushing Buffalo Grass for one more Rooster in cold driving sleet and rain pushed by a pretty stiff wind. At the end of the day all were cold, wet and tired, but they slep well that night. Know what? They got up and did it again the next day!

In Alaska, I always told new comers the 22 pistol and a good pair of running boots is the ultimate bear protection. Simply put, when the bear charges you shoot your buddy in the ankle and run like hell!

All jokes aside, years ago it was mind over body!

You can take 3 individuals, a person who mastered triathlon, the most book smart person you can find and a kid. Toss them in an environment lets say the arctic, which one is most like to survive?

The kid is the most likely to survive for one reason, the will to survive!

If I remember right I think it was 88 if not 89, an Alaska Bush Pilot committed suicide and the note read, mosquito are hitting the windshield etc can't handle it. Shortly after the pilot ended his life, a rescue chopper arrived!

One thing I've learned in Alaska, when you think your all alone, somebody is watching from afar, Alaska "THE LAND OF OPTICS"!!

I challenge anyone to remain as still as my Grandson Alex even when he was age 8! I tell'ya, at times I think this Young Man is asleep at times! He knows His Sport and truly loves the great outdoors!

WA Mtnhunter...send a post card to:

United States Army, 10th Mountain Division, Helmand Province, Afghanistan. I'm sure the men who wear the crossed swords shoulder patch would take a break from Burning The Taliban and reply.

Give them 2 weeks, I know you'll hear from them.

The clothing and gear I rely upon today is much better, much more efficient, than the stuff I used in the '60s. I can't make a comparison to the '20s (before my time) but I wouldn't step back in time to the coats and trousers I used years ago!
I'm sure those who could afford it in the 1920s used the best available, and that hasn't changed a bit. I admire my grandfather's tenacity and work ethic, rest his soul, but I'm grateful my world is different, presumably better, and I'm grateful for the progress.
Those who pine for the "good old days" or comment that "They don't make 'em like they used to" should take a moment to reconsider. There are rifles that were expensive to produce and are no longer in production. Yes, I mourn for a few of them. However, there are fabrics and outdoor clothing now that makes the "old days" seem primitive by comparison, and I'd be a hypocrite to say I'd trade any of it for what hung in my closet forty years ago!

I have to remember stories of "Black Pete" so named because smoke from his kerosene cook stove had him pretty much blackened up by Spring, when he came out to sell furs and buy "commodities and possibles". About 7 miles to the nearest gravel road and about the same milage to town.He took his twice yearly bath after he got back to camp (small shack, about 12 by 16 ). One bath in the spring, after ice out and one in the fall before ice up. He wore 3 layers of clothes that he rotated, inside layer to outside about every week, simply wore them out and then replaced them with a new layer, long johns (not part of the three) got changed twice a year.
He died in the Spring, caught in a late snow storm on his way to buy his spring supplies.
Friends found that he had amputated his own leg during the winter carved his own crutch and continued trapping and doing his thing until that Spring storm caught him half way to town.
Anybody that tough?

He wasn't sure folks were tougher, but for darn sure times were a lot tougher. This was the response to a similar question by me to an old time hunter back around 19 and 47. I was eight or so, and sitting around a campfire with four or five scruffy, old hunters trying to dry out while hunting mule deer. They all qualified for 1920's hunters. The one speaking said he wasn't so tough, he had been turned down by the Army in WWI because he had flat feet. Of course he was still hunting mean country in his 70's and walked everywhere as he never learned to drive. Hunting in the West you often must cover a lot of miles. In fact, three of the five had never learned to drive.

These were all some of the best hunters I have ever known, and believe me, I have known some real great ones over the past 60 years hunting. No one had rain coats, heavy jackets, waterproof shoes, gloves, or any commercial hunting gear. Even their knives were what they used every day or came from their kitchen. No one owned a sleeping bag, just made do with an old blanket. Anything more would have made hunting uneconomical. The purpose was meat and a chance to spend time with friends. As I recall, the firearms included a 25-35, two 30-30s, a 35 Remington semi auto which always jammed after the first shot, and a battered Enfield 06 military stock. All were second or third hand. They always got venison, if it took all season.

If they got cold, wet, or tired, the rule was get out of the wind and build a fire. If you got discouraged or confused, build a fire. Someone would show up to the smoke, hopefully with a bottle.

I sure miss those folks and those days.

If you got cold, tired or, wet, the rule was get out of the wind and build a fire.

Del,

Sometimes lack of intelligence has a lot to do with it!

Oh, the Sourwood trees are blooming and the bees are up there on the Blueridge working. Keep your fingers crossed!

i would agree with the fact that previous generations were "tougher" in a way, outdoorsmen or not, though realistically they were that way because they had to be. Although there are plenty of old guys out there who still prefer to go about it that way, and some who have embraced modern tech, the ones who dont i would guess do it more so because its been engrained in them to do so through years of making things work the tough way, had they grown up with our technology i am quite confident they for the most part would be no "tougher" than us. with that being said i am going to do things the way they have been done for countless years and use the best technology available to me. And an aside on toughness, i am not quite convinced we are that much less tough than they were, if forced into situations were we were required to be as tough as the old guys i am quite convinced that most of us, particularly us hunters some non-hunters im not quite so sure on, would quickly develop the resourcefulness and toughness the situation demanded, it just happens far less often now.

ya, modern technology has made the everyday hunter kind of a wimp. I love to sit around my favorite gun shop and listen to the old hunters telling story's about when everyone wore plaid flannel jackets and would hunt for days at a time. but then they start telling us how lucky we are to have sub-moa rifles right out of the box and how great modern optics are,then it all goes down hill from there;)

No IPOD to receive FACEBOOK!

Nothing wrong with modern equipment. It's overreliance on it that's wrong. Of course, there's nothing absolute here.

Soldiers and Marines now wear knee pads and goggles and body armor. Does that make them soft? Well, anything that's going to make it easier to defend the free world is welcome. But they should still master iron sights, learn to judge distance without rangefinders, use a compass, read maps, fend off for themselves - build a fire, find food, make shelter, etc. - when they're separated from their kit.

Hey, I'm practically talking about hunters, anglers and other outdoorsmen, too.

Let's see that was ninety years ago. Yeah they were tough but what about the guys ninety years before them? Were the hunters of 1830 even tougher?

We still have tough people. People don't need to be cold and wet these days, because there is affordable equipment that could be had to prevent it. If they had this stuff 90 years ago, they would have worn it also. I wonder how many of those old farts who thought they were tougher than nails could have run a marathon, did triathlons or other activities that require a lot of stamina and strength. I am sure a good many of those people would have keeled over with a heart attack if someone had them do any of this stuff. Lots of lard butts still out there these days also, but those who ARE in shape are in a LOT better shape than people 90 years ago. In general, I think hunters have it easier these days than those in the past because of the increase in the deer populations everywhere. Years ago you had to go a good distance to see very few deer. These days you can see very many within miles of large urban areas, and in many places they can be hunted, so why does one need to rough it, when a deer can be had without roughing it?

Every generation, back to the aforementioned Neanderthal, has probably said; "Nook nowhere near tough as ancestor. Before spear we run down antelope and hit with rock."

As a field Marine, I have no desire to "relive the good old days". Sure, people were tough, and might live to be 40 if they were lucky. A generation or so back, people were pretty divided already. The tough farmer, outdoor type who had to hunt to feed his brood, but we already had the market-shopping, urban dweller by the millions. Neither group had much time, money, or inclination to "work out at the gym". Some didn't need to, and some didn't even consider it.

I think those people would have wanted any edge they could get. Warm clothes in mid-winter? Scoped rifles? Yep. The best stuff cost more money than a man hunting for necessary food had, so they lived without it. There's a story in my family about an uncle lost a few toes to frostbite one winter looking for meat. Do you even remotely think he wouldn't have wanted a pair of nice Bellville boots?

Clearly, outdoorsment of old were tougher in a lot of ways. Their world view was much different. I mean they were a product of their available choices. They grew up in a rougher/tougher world where independence, self reliance and skill were a way of life and,their expectations were different. They could not even imagine the technological advances we enjoy in equipment. Their sense of "sportsmanship" was different. They expected to have to work hard for success in the field because there were no other options, and to tell the truth, they propably wouldn't have had it any other way. They didn't expect trophy sized animals every outing and were damn well satisfied with bringing home some meat. It was about personal accomplishment and not about bragging rights. Most of the guys I hunted with are dead now, but if they were alive, they wouldn't have hunted any other way. They wanted to earn the right to be called a "good" hunter.

It pleased me to a great extent to say that that way of life still exists. Traditional archerers still do it the hard way. The stories in TRADITONAL BOWHUNTER MAGAZINE, for example, attest to the fact that the old worldview still exists and that there are some tough dudes out there. Imagine having to rely soley on your abilities to get within a few yards of your quarry to effect a lethal shot with traditional equipment, no less. These sportsmen and women glory in the challenge of the hunt and in the development of their abilities in the field. their sporting ethic is second to none.

David, you are one provocative son of a buck.
I read this post yesterday and took some time to reflect on it today during work. As a carpenter on a highway/heavy construction crew, I had a demolition assignment. I ran a 75 lb. rock drill and a 90 lb jackhammer at odd angles, upwards, and sideways in the heat, the humidity and then the eventual monsoon in Minneapolis. When I finally pryed my hands off the jackhammer, my thought bubble read, "I wonder if I would have hacked it hunting in the woods 90 years ago!" I know It's apples to oranges, but the thought ws still absurd. And hilarious. Thanks for the laughs Mr. P.
Cbass

I was watching some old logging video's and it showed a noticeable difference in grit, endurance, and mental/physical toughness of men from 3 generations ago. The logger used an axe to cut down what I would say was a 200+ year old hard wood tree top. I have experience swinging an axe and know the endurance it takes to take down soft pines that are a fraction of the size while standing on the ground and all I can say is "wow." Even experienced arborist would find this to be a challenge with a 40 inch or bigger chainsaw. These men did it day in and day out, and I am sure they shot a ton of game while we logged the majority of the lower 48. We are faker's and would feel unprepared without dropping 100's and 1000's of dollars on gear. Anyways, I am off to the private hunting club plantation, a legacy of the logging industry, in muck boats, riding in Ford's King Ranch lush air conditioned leather seats, wearing sunblock, and deet to install a 275 gallon tank to hold water for warm showers powered by batteries. Better to be a comfortable pussy than a miserable sweaty one. From the burbs to the bush in 2 hours, here comes plenty of water,and with it civilization. Cheers.

Gunslinger

Truer words never spoken, my friend!

Best regards,
=S=

I do think those of us who continue to hunt enjoy hunting more so than those of yesterday...Many of that period in our lives had to hunt to live.That was the only fresh meat they could afford. True, they were tough individuals as if not they never lived to be old like me. I also agree the rquiptment of today is superior of yesterday, but no knocking the 30-30. Let's omit,we are spoiled. W have a different gun for different game ( at least I do) thoe of yesterday were lucky if they had one gun period and they killed whatever they could find. As for physicial toughness there surely were tougher. As living off the land is back breaking hard work, I know as I grew up on a Tobacco farm and there ws always work to be done and most ws hard , and tought work. We were healthy as a rule, even with the new Medications most of that time were in good health. A few diseases did wipe out many families that today we make it after a few pills or shots.I think we have forgotten our fore-fathers and what they brought to the later generations. They instilled honesty, hard work, help the neighbors,tankful for what they did have and never tried to keep up with the Jones's. A long as they had a roof over their head, food on the table and all were well they were happy. Sorry that todays generation wants it all now for zilt. I hope I;m able to have a few more years to hunt, as hunting and guns keep me going today even with poor health. To bad theTV was invented. Let's all try to be pleased with what we got and have guns to hunt with, rather than a spear or etc. Pray for the younger generation for they got a rough road to hoe. Shoot up straight and often and be thankful you are able to do so. Just wish I was able to hunt daily, but $$$ and poor health prevents such..As I stated earlier, if teh first animal you see on a hunt is close to what you hunting for,take him as that may be all you see on that hunt. Last year I killed the first Mulie I saw ( not what I wanted) but was the only Mulie I saw in l2 days of hunting. He's hanging over my head now. Good luck to all and remember those less fortunate than you and I.