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Petzal: Don't Make Mine a Double

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August 31, 2010

Petzal: Don't Make Mine a Double

By David E. Petzal

Since I first went to Africa in 1978, I’ve hunted with something like 20 PHs, and not one of them used a double rifle. Every one of them carried a bolt gun of .375 H&H on up. Part of it, of course, is the scrotum-shriveling expense of a decent double rifle, and the other part I got a look at last Saturday, when the club I belong to staged its annual African shoot. There are three events: running lion, rising buffalo, and standing elephant. The first is as many shots as you can manage, the second six, and the third five, and you have only a few seconds to get off each round.

Quite a number of shooters used double rifles. Most were .375s, but I saw at least one .470, and one particularly brave soul used an 8-bore black-powder hammer gun. The rifles were British, Belgian, and Austrian. All in all, it was a pretty wretched exhibition. There were failures to fire, failures to eject, and failures to extract. What stood out most of all, however, was just how difficult it is to operate one of these things even when it’s working.

Unless you’ve practiced a lot, and I mean a lot, you have to take your eyes off the target, somehow grab two big shells, somehow stuff them into the barrels, close the damned rifle, and start to acquire the target which, in real life, would already have reduced you to a greasy spot in the long grass.

African literature is filled with double-rifle users reloading in the twinkling of an eye, getting off as many aimed rounds as someone with a bolt rifle.

Maybe. But I haven’t seen it.

Comments (60)

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from jersey pig wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

but they are pretty guns.

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from Amflyer wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Having not a double rifle, I wonder if they might be faster for a well-aimed follow-up shot, allowing the shooter to keep their head down and on the sights.

There may be times i would rather have two well placed shots, rather than one well-placed shot and two iffy follow-ups. (Assuming that many bolt-actions chambered for cartridges of consequence have two in the magazine.)

Now if I could work the bolt like Jeff Cooper, that might be a different story.

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from Steve in Virginia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Fair warning -- the following comment/question is based on zero African experience other than watching the Outdoor Channel, but...isn't the benefit of the double rifle that one can get off a well aimed second shot quicker than doing so with a bolt gun (and therefore avoid becoming the aforementioned "greasy spot")?

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from Amflyer wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

OK, I see the CZ 550M has lots of cartridges stuffed in the magazine, so forget the "2 rounds in the magazine" statement.

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from MJC wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

'greasy spot in the long grass'- Capstick is smiling somewhere.

I'd love to try a double someday, but the learning curve to manage more than two shots does seem quite steep.

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

having shot alot of o/u and s/s shotties in my time reloading is second nature now and is done lightining quick, often while moving etc..
If it didnt require training to get it right it just wouldnt be fun...
Think of a double gun hunt like people do bowhunting etc..
its cos its a bit difficult and require u to learn something complicated...
personally id get a mauser mechanism thats reliable as heck and has a bulletproof safetysystem and train as much as my shoulder could take till i got it right.. just trust those guns more to function ;)

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from davidpetzal wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

To Steve in Virginia: In theory you can get off two aimed shots with a double faster than with a bolt gun because all you have to do is pull the trigger a second time (if you're insane and have a single trigger) or switch to the second trigger. From what I've seen, the recoil of a serious double, which means .470 Nitro Express on up--is so severe, even considering the weight of the thing, that it pretty much negates the mechanical advantage.
In 1987, I was told of a PH whose backup rifle was a 7x57 Mauser bolt gun. With 175-grain FMJ ammo it penetrated as well as a .375 H&H, and he claimed he could get off five aimed shots in the time it took a man with a .375 or bigger to get off three.

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from flyfisher946 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Without a doubt the mystic of double rifles far outweighs the suposed advantage. A quality controled feed bolt action of .375 H&H or the surberb .375 Ruger will kill anything on the planet with the properly constructed bullets. Alas many countries have minimum calibre requirements which make little or no sense. you can't kill what you can't hit and one cant hit a darn thing with a flinch that would massacure a flock of guinne fowl.

Cheers

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from Steve in Virginia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Good points -- I'll stick with the bolt gun, Dave, if for no other reason than to avoid that "scrotum-shriveling" problem you mentioned.

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from Mike Plotner wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

one of my buddys has a 7x57 mauser that his dad coustom built for him dont look that pretty but it shoots nice

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from Tim Platt wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I am still amazed at the love affair with the 7X57 Mauser... of course I bought one just because of the literature and lore surrounding it. Mine pretty much drops game like an ought six without any of the accompanying recoil. It is a magic caliber, and mine is a single shot.

As far as double rifles go I am not in the economic circle these men live in, so I really cannot comment on their experiences. I know the 7mm Mauser outperforms rifles I have owned that are supposed to be their superior and from firsthand knowledge I know they outperform anything in their class.

About all I can say is the only gun I have ever emptied besides my No. 1 and had to reload was a bolt action and after firing four shots I was able to drop another animal. Legally you can shoot three does and keep hunting in Tennessee so a bolt is wonderful if you plan on filling your freezer without climbing down from your treestand.

If I were ever to visit Africa or Alaska I would not want a single shot or double rifle. Bolt actions have been my go to gun whenever I think the action could get heavy and fast and I am serious about killing. I know I can rack off five shots with a 30-06 bolt just because I have been doing it 30 years. Usually at the range trying to blow up 2 liter coke bottles at 50, 75, 100, 125, and 150 yards but I can still do it very fast offhand so my confidence level is off the scale. That matters a lot.

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from sgaredneck wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

There's part of me that still wants a double just for the sheer romance factor of it. As I sit here at my desk trying to figure out my bills, and trying not to be P-O'd about my Canada trip going down the $#!++er, every year seems to add more responsibilities. I guess what I should really be doing is being thankful for the things I have, and being thankful for my conservative upbringing. I do have toys in the safe, but we also have food on the table and a roof overhead, etc., etc.

Right now that double would be hard to eat.....

Dr. Ralph,
If you spend enough quality time with a Ruger No.1, you will find that it loads rather quickly with good technique. I'm nearly as fast with mine as with a bolt gun. That being said I agree that I wouldn't necessarily want a single for something angry.

S Ga

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from Tom-Tom wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

My hunting trips to the Dark Continent have all been vicarious adventures, thanks to some very good outdoor writers. The double rifle was perhaps over romaticised as the weapon of choice for the big five. The only real PH I ever met was in the late 50's and his rifle of choice for backing up his clients on dangerous game was a Winchester Model 70 in .458 if memory serves, saying he wanted the security of several extra rounds as "a buffalo can never be too dead". The only double he used was a 12 guage with buckshot when tracking wounded big cats in the thick stuff. 'Nuff said.

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from FirstBubba wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

The mystique of the double rifle is enough to shrivel anything!! They are just absolutely awesome.
A bit, but not far, off thread. In the mid to late 70's, Browning offered, I think through a custom shop affair, a double rifle O/U! Don't remember any African calibers, but I do remember it was offered in .30-'06 Spgf and .270 Win!
I spent hours wiping the slobber off the catalogue pages!! To own one in .270 Win would cause some shriveling that would bring on soprano arias!!!

Bubba

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from countitandone wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

DEP ~ What's the chance of you going to next years edition of the club's annual African shoot...let me guess.

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from Tim Platt wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I will buy a Beretta 455 EELL double rifle when I win the lottery. No reason to have it except as a toy. I can never have enough toys. First I would buy a Porsche 911 Turbo with all the options available.......

I would still probably drive a four wheel drive truck and hunt with a Remington 700. It's just who I am.

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from Tim Platt wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

My next purchase would look a lot like this...

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from Tim Platt wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

http://s11.acephotos.org/images/orig/6/g/6gjbqumwvjo6vwoq.jpg your web site its not user friendly...

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from Walt Smith wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

So why hasn't anybody (forgive me if they have) built a accurate dependable large bore pump rifle?? It would seem feasable due to the reliability of the pump action and the blazing accurate speed an acomplished shooter can accomplish with one-- or is it just not romantic enough of a weapon for the African hunter and P.H.?? I could see a 25 inch barreled 28 inch tube 5 shot 416 Remington Magnum spoiling a big buffalo's day! What Say You!!

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from idduckhntr wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

So Dave I guess I have to talk my wife out of the Sabatti 470 I just talked her into getting me. By the way what do you think of Sabatti.

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from 99explorer wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

In theory at least, the double rifle is faster for two shots, the bolt action is faster for three, and the double is faster for four. So, take your pick.
I think Walt Smith may be onto something with his pump-action .416 Remington Magnum.

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from Sarge01 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I have 0 experience with African hunting and when they put me in the ground,I will have 0 experience with African hunting so my answer means absolutly nothing. I have shot big bore double rifles that curl your toe nails and I have shot big bolt actions that have done the same. I guess I will have to go back to the statement that I always make about rifles. There are two kinds of rifles, bolt actions and all the others. I have shot bolt actions all of my life and quite a few people seem to think that I am pretty fast with a bolt action rifle, for whatever that means.

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from PbHead wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Thanks to Dave and All. I was just about to join the 416 Rigby Club. I was all set to spend an afternoon making $220 worth of bullet holes in paper. Then you came to the rescue with the comments on the 7x57. I took mine out of the safe and now all is well.

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from crm3006 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

The double rifle is a great part of the African mystique, but most of the old pros shot bolt actions. John Rigby's .416 was a game stopper, as was the .458 Win mag, and the humble Holland and Holland .375. As much as I would like to own a double in .470 Nitro Express, if I ever get the chance to hunt Africa, my battery will consist of a .30-'06 for leopard, and the .375 H&H for the bigger antelopes and possibly a Cape Buffalo. Go with what you know, and shoot what you shoot well.

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from Happy Myles wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Having written before on these pages regarding stopping rifles, both bolt and double rifles, some of this will be repetitive.

As Dave indicates, most PH's use bolt action rifles, 375s and 458s, they are less expensive, ammo available, and the ammo is also less costly than larger calibers. This is especially true if most of their hunting is a large cross section of plains game, and a few leopard or lion. If their main focus is elephant, cape buffalo and cat the calibers get larger and more doubles appear. Remember their job hunting dangerous game is to clean up after a client at short range when he has screwed up some shooting. The paying customers job is to shoot accurately at longer range. You may be hunting buffalo and a fabulous kudu appears at 100 - 200 yards. Therefore, bolt actions are more flexible because you have more shots and more accuracy, especially at different ranges.

Using double rifles efficiently requires more practice and recoil pounding to shoot them well and learning to load quickly.

Even though I own a couple nice doubles which I have used a lot, I find myself taking large caliber bolt actions. For example, 416, 450 Ackley, or 500 Jeffrey, just more accurate at longer ranges as well as short. In a word, flexibility. I must add I feel a 375 is a medium heavy rifle not a heavy one.

Having said this, there is nothing like a 470 or 500 Nitro Express hung barrel down over your shoulder while squinting up into the African sun. You are sure you must look like Gregory Peck or Stewart Granger.

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from Happy Myles wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Postscript

For a paying customer, feel have hunted dangerous game quite a bit. The three times have had to stand my ground and face a short range charge have never had time for more than two shots during the initial charge, the animal was dead at that point or I had time to reload having turned it or stopped it. Others may have had different luck or should I say experience.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Dave P,
Tell me you don't, but you know you do.
A bolt action today may be more practical, but with a straight face tell me you don't want a Jeffrey, Richards, or an Evans. Please don't play with a gunnutz heart.

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from Happy Myles wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Sorry, but one more thought. Dave, recovering from recoil while shooting big calibers is always subject to debate. My experience indicates calibers that generate high energy by high velocity are more difficult to control after a shot than those firing heavy bullets through heavy barrel or barrels to achieve stopping power.

Do not even get me started on the effect on other shooters standing next to someone using a muzzle break during a dangerous short range charge,

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from frankies80 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Well we all know that Mr. Petzal is a bolt action afficionado as we could see in his last article of the "gun nut"..... not one side by side, over under or lever action rifle featured, pretty sad though for someone who names an article "the gun nut". And the excuse of America being a bold action country is dumb. I wonder sometimes if he heard of WInchester. ...

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from O Garcia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Ah, thanks Happy, for coming in just in time.

As for the 7x57, especially regarding its legend as built up by WDM Bell, I think Bell made it clear in Wanderings Of An Elephant Hunter that the reason he used the 7x57 was because the German-made ammunition at the time was more reliable, went bang every time, the solid bullets did not bend or rivet, the cases came out everytime. I think that with other calibers, Bell experienced some bullet failures and some misfires.

Give the credit to RWS or Dynamit-Nobel. Those Germans (or Austrians, Bavarians, whatever) were good.

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from O Garcia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I suppose if I had money, I would have at least one double. It'll still be "budget", maybe a "relatively" inexpensive Krieghoff or Blaser as opposed to a "London Best" Holland & Holland or Westley-Richards. I don't know, there's just that extra lockup in a German gun that might make me feel safer.

Or I might follow Craig Boddington's tip and buy a used, Plain-Jane, unengraved English double built from a generic Webley lock.

While we fret over the cost of double rifles, a low-priced, used but working double gun could be no more expensive than your D'Arcy Echols Legend or Kenny Jarrett, or Dakota M76, and certainly much less expensive than a David Miller.

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from Bellringer wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I have never had nor do I expect to have any experience in Africa or with a heavy rifle of any sort, however if I could afford it I would buy a double rifle just for the H _ _ _ of it so that when I get older, and someone mentioned said double rifle, I could say with no small amount of smugness, I got mine.

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from Modern Day Moun... wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I'd like to own a double gun, even though I doubt I'll ever make it to Africa.

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from Modern Day Moun... wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

even if I do make it to Africa, I don't think I'd use a double while there.

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from shutupnfish wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I'll bet most folks, myself included, would rather read about a hunter being mauled by dangerous game on an African safari while clutching his prized double rifle with the six figure price tag than reading the same article, only the hunter has some old H&H that set him back mayyyyyyybe, what, a couple grand. Please.

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from FirstBubba wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Had I the smoking piles of filthy lucre lying about waiting to trickle through my grubby fingers in exchange for a coveted (near to the point of unforgiveable sin!) double rifle, I think my Capstick addled mind would have to go with the Evans in .470 Nitro.
On the other hand, a custom built Browning O/U in .270 Win sends a shiver down my spine not unlike the '64 Kodiak earthquake!

Bubba
P.S. - I'm so Capstick-cated, make my Evans with a "pink" recoil pad!!! LOL!!!

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from davidpetzal wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

To Jim in Mo: I would absolutely love to have a double, either in .470 or .500. Probably a Heym. They build a very good working double that does not cost as much as a Westley Richards.

To Happy Myles: I agree absolutely about muzzle brakes. A deafened tracker is one who cannot hear the hoofbeats.

To Frankies80: You bet we are a bold action country. That's what made us great.

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from Scott Jones wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I've seen too many bolt gunners who could keep up with semi-autos by working their actions while recovering from recoil. I've yet to see anyone do this with a double.

Dr. Ralph - I don't think you can purchase that, I think you just take up payments.

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from Mock1 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I'm going to botswana next year and will be taking my Marlin 45-70 GG for buff and my BAR .300 win mag for plains game. Why? cause I'm a lefty. I'm almost faster with the GG than the Semiauto

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from white bison wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

A double rifle has its niche...I've hunted Africa too, and
once owned a fine Chapuis Double (Chapuis makes more double rifles than any other maker)in 9.3x74. Its niche is dangerous game fairly close. I disagree with Dave some,they work well if good guns and can be reloaded fairly quickly. You have to approach it intelligently,
learn to use the rifle well, get well versed in it. Its
forte is the quick second shot like a double shotgun does.
If you like a side by side double shotgun, you would like the double rifle. John Taylor liked them. I only sold mine because I wanted a heavier caliber than the 9.3x74R. However, I concede the point that a bolt action rifle is more practical..even in large calibers.
Also, the double rifle is short & handy due to the type of shotgun style receiver...where the bolt gun is more clutsy. If you are used to shooting a side by side double shotgun, a double rifle you will find shoots just as handily, and will be used to it. Get one with ejectors. And they can be scoped too, mine was scoped with quick detachable mounts. You don't see PH's using them because they are working men & can't afford them, but I'd bet if you asked them, they'd love to have a big bore double. Price is the object. But a find big bore double still has its place.
Best regards, Tom

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from Zermoid wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Teddy Roosevelt hunted Africa with a lever action.

Good enuf reason to not worry about a double for me.

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from Happy Myles wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Mock1.
Be sure and check Botswana regulations, I cannot recall their rules, but many African countries won't let you use semi auto's. Kindest Regards

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from Jere Smith wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

If I had the money I would but a Holland just because I wanted it .

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from Jere Smith wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

After all it should nail down a big Grizz.

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from ishawooa wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

My main experiences with double guns are, as said previously, reducing boulders nicely into gravel. I really enjoy reloading for and shooting the Heym .470 NE double. I also feel the same way as Happy about the recoil of high velocity rifles versus slow heavy bullets as the latter seemingly "whacks" you more like a hard shove rahter than a quick punch. Last year I accidently doubled the .470 and only took a step backwards while my friends enjoyed a good laugh mostly at the suprised expression on my face I am certain.
Zermoid: One of Teddy's M-95 .405's of African fame resides in a glass across the street from my office. However if you read his book and examine his photographs you will discover that for truly dangerous game Roosevelt used his Holland double gun. The sporterized Springfield was for plains game. No doubt he took many other weapons with him as well.

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from KJ wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

The doubles I've seen are chambered in calibers that will jar your teeth loose. Toothless with a shriveled scrotum is not among my aspirations.

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from Mock1 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Thanks Happy. I'll email the outfitter today. I do have a left hand 25-06 Savage, but the BAR has never killed anything but one whitetail. I'd like to get my money out of it :)

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from wingshooter54 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I WOULD LOVE TO OWN A DOUBLE RIFLE!.....in 7x57 rimmed; (or 275 flanged as the Brits called it) I could even go a 9.3x74 and manage it. Any bigger bore than that makes my scrotum shrivel from recoil. It's great to see the praise of the 7x57. My present one is a Ruger no 1A light sporter. Everything shot with it just falls over DRT.(dead right there)

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from Bella wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Double? Make mine a triple, cause it's Drillings that really make me salivate.
Actually I own a "double" my good ole Savage 24,(.22 over .410), but it's hardly for "dangerous game".
I have no plans for Africa, nor any plans for plans about Africa and if anything dangerous comes outa the swamp it's likely a moose, A .308 Winchester or three dispensed from my old KAR98 oughta be sufficient, if there is any scenario that would condone it in a state without any legal moose season. My own untidy swamp is close enough to Africa to me and yes my "double" will do just fine there considering.

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from Del in KS wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

This morning I dropped a charging bull dove with a 28 ga load of 71/2 shot. Turned out he had what duck hunters call some jewelry on one leg.

Years ago I knew a Colonel at Ft. Benning that had a nice collection of German drillings. They were awesome guns.

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from ishawooa wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I have not checked in a year or two but on the Heym web site there are some videos regarding their double guns and their bolt actions being fired at a "charging cape" made of cardboard on a cable. Watch them and see which action gets off three effective shots in the shortest amount of time.

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from focusfront wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Being someone who has used only bolts, levers, and semis his whole life, it would seem to me that a double has one huge advantage that nobody ever mentions. With a two triggered double in your hands you essentially are holding two rifles. Dave is worrying about the speed of getting off two or more shots, as he should; but if I was drawing down on an elephant, I would care about the certainty of getting off ONE shot. A double would handle that.

In my forty years of shooting I have had exactly two rounds misbehave; a case head separation (at the range), and a sickening click when I was aiming at a doe. I don't know how much hot gas hits your face when a case separation occurs with a double, but as there are few holes in the action for gas to get through, probably a lot less than with a bolt action. And the sickening click cost me that doe; she busted me when I worked the action. With a double I could just have gone to the second trigger.

If that doe had been a charging elephant I would have been dead. But with with a double I'd have had a completely separate trigger, lockwork, firing pin, and round a fingertip away, and be sure of getting off at least ONE shot. And worry about reloading later. I will never own a double, but I UNDERSTAND why a pro whose job it is to put down angry wounded game would want one.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I guess some of us working class hunters out here beleive if you can afford to go on an expensive safari(s),then a decent double rifle(in the 10 to 15k range)is not out of the question. As for using a double, it probably comes down to tradition for some of those that use them.I have seen a number of hunts on DVD in which the PH used a double rifle, so I don't beleive they are as scarce as one may think? One PH, in retirement, moved to Alaska, and traded his .470 double for a .375 Bolt to use while in retirement. The guide with the double never regretted the trade, and according to the article, is still guiding with it today.
SO to each his own taste in rifles!

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from Jim in Mo wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Moishe, if I had the money a Holland it would be. You forgot to include the time it would take to get in line for them to build it for us. In these tough economic times you would think you could get one quick. Not Holland, if you want custom, they are doing good go to their web.

Del, good for you. I couldn't get out of work today, will go tomorrow. Did you call game dept. with number on band?

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from spring wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

On my most recent trip to Tanzania when tracking cape buffalo in the thick bush of the Selous, the confidence I felt with my 470NE while walking along with my hunting partner as he carried a 375H&H was essentially to the level that I felt I was having to protect the fellow with the bolt gun due to his relative lack of firepower in close quarters. The benefits of a big bore that can quickly pound them twice are real and significant when you're in there with them.
If all you're talking about is shooting something at distance, yes, my bolt gun is fine, but in situations for which the double rifle was created, the differences and benefits of the design are enormous.

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from O Garcia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

As Col. Craig Boddington wrote in the old Hunting many years ago, the double is a throwback to the muzzleloading era, when a 2nd gun/rifle, or a 2nd barrel, was your only chance of a quick 2nd shot.

It's not as versatile as a magazine rifle, nor is it as strong (thus the need for low pressure, high capacity cartridge cases), or as accurate. It shoots well with usually just one load, so that load better be one that brings down game. So why?

The side-by-side double rifle, when properly made, is the epitome of reliability: two barrels, two locks, two triggers. If the first barrel misfires, you go to the second, by just moving your trigger finger. The double guarantees that you will get off at least one shot, unless you're using faulty ammo, in which case, you probably deserve what you're gonna get from Mr. Nyati. The double rifle also should handle like a fine shotgun, it must come to the shoulder naturally, it must point naturally and with the sights aligned. Not that you can't aim deliberately with it, some can even be fitted with scopes, but the double should be on target with minimal effort from the hunter, because by the time you shoulder the rifle, the brute that was trying to kill you may be only feet away.

In the client hunter-PH relationship between Robert Ruark and Harry Selby, when they were both carrying heavies, you almost think their guns were reversed. Ruark, the client, carried the .470 NE double, while Selby, the left-handed PH, carried the right-hand bolt-action in .416 Rigby. That no client of Selby ever came out of Africa with horror stories means Selby's reputation must be really solid. He knew how to use his gun, and he knew how to avoid charges.

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from yohan wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Hmmmm ,..
had a couple nice SXS 12 guages over the years.
They cost as much as the house i grew up in . and a Stevens 12 SXS too
Which I actually liked better becuase I wasnt worried about scratching the stock or whacking the tubes against something .
Sold the expensive ones and went to pumps.
Gave the Stevesn to a kid you needed a gun and could afford one,. which I would have kept it and baught the kid a punp,. : )

Only shot one double rifle ( here in the US ) owned by a French guy I met in college.
It was a SXS 8x57 regulated for 100 yards,(meters) . built by a German company dont recal the make ,.
it was (real purdy) and it kicked like a steer.

A good man with a pump can really schuck the shells ,. but an auto is quicker for the averga joe .

That said a double with one tigger is as quick as anything I ve seen ,.and if you think about it how much time is involved ,. getting to the third shot.

Only had to defend myself twice while hunting
(well 3 times really,. but the third time was irrate woman)
The other two were one black bear and one lion.
Both with a Mauser bolt,.. both were hurt bad with 1st shot ,. both were subsequently sent "on winged flight " with the second ( PH put 3ird in the lion ) just as a matter of course .

So to me a double rifle is a tool used for close clean-up work that absoluty must get done or peole suffer and or die. If it takes three just hope like hell thee is moe than one shooter.

A doube shotgun is just fun and fast.
I do not recal ever getting a 3ird shot at a gouse.
Very probabaly because I did not deserve a 3ird chance : )

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from Jere Smith wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Del there is a Drilling at Beringers @ Leavenworth 16x16 over 7.62x51 also Cabelas has some too.

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from O Garcia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

for the price of this baby right here:
http://www.onlylongrange.com/badnews.asp

you can buy a used double rifle

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from Brian D Fletcher wrote 34 weeks 6 days ago

It's really very easy to get off that 3rd and 4th shot fast.
Especially if the rifle has auto ejectors which most do.
The backup rounds are carried in a belt carrier centered in front or off to the strong side a bit.
My carrier is a leather covered wooden block with the cartridge holes lined with felt for a snug but easy pull.
They "carry" with about 1" exposed, but right before I shoot or feel I'm about to, I pull them halfway out.
The cartridges are angled outward at the top I'd say at 30 degrees or a bit more. They are spaced apart EXACTLY the same distance as they are in the gun.
When the first two rounds are fired, break the gun open and snap it rearward, stock dipping under your arm.
The spent shells will be gone.
NEVER TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE GAME!
Then get the butt back on your shoulder, muzzles down, reach down and with your fingers flat on the frontsides of the cartridges and your thumb arched between the two rounds to act as a spacer, snatch them and drop them in the waiting holes.
Slam it shut, as you do you'll be bringing the sights back up into line with your eye and the target.
It takes a little practice, but then you can really run that double FAST.
If you don't have double rifle shooter handy to teach you this, go to a cowboy action match and get a double shooter to show you with his 12 or 10 gauge.

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from Happy Myles wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Having written before on these pages regarding stopping rifles, both bolt and double rifles, some of this will be repetitive.

As Dave indicates, most PH's use bolt action rifles, 375s and 458s, they are less expensive, ammo available, and the ammo is also less costly than larger calibers. This is especially true if most of their hunting is a large cross section of plains game, and a few leopard or lion. If their main focus is elephant, cape buffalo and cat the calibers get larger and more doubles appear. Remember their job hunting dangerous game is to clean up after a client at short range when he has screwed up some shooting. The paying customers job is to shoot accurately at longer range. You may be hunting buffalo and a fabulous kudu appears at 100 - 200 yards. Therefore, bolt actions are more flexible because you have more shots and more accuracy, especially at different ranges.

Using double rifles efficiently requires more practice and recoil pounding to shoot them well and learning to load quickly.

Even though I own a couple nice doubles which I have used a lot, I find myself taking large caliber bolt actions. For example, 416, 450 Ackley, or 500 Jeffrey, just more accurate at longer ranges as well as short. In a word, flexibility. I must add I feel a 375 is a medium heavy rifle not a heavy one.

Having said this, there is nothing like a 470 or 500 Nitro Express hung barrel down over your shoulder while squinting up into the African sun. You are sure you must look like Gregory Peck or Stewart Granger.

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from davidpetzal wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

To Steve in Virginia: In theory you can get off two aimed shots with a double faster than with a bolt gun because all you have to do is pull the trigger a second time (if you're insane and have a single trigger) or switch to the second trigger. From what I've seen, the recoil of a serious double, which means .470 Nitro Express on up--is so severe, even considering the weight of the thing, that it pretty much negates the mechanical advantage.
In 1987, I was told of a PH whose backup rifle was a 7x57 Mauser bolt gun. With 175-grain FMJ ammo it penetrated as well as a .375 H&H, and he claimed he could get off five aimed shots in the time it took a man with a .375 or bigger to get off three.

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from Tim Platt wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I am still amazed at the love affair with the 7X57 Mauser... of course I bought one just because of the literature and lore surrounding it. Mine pretty much drops game like an ought six without any of the accompanying recoil. It is a magic caliber, and mine is a single shot.

As far as double rifles go I am not in the economic circle these men live in, so I really cannot comment on their experiences. I know the 7mm Mauser outperforms rifles I have owned that are supposed to be their superior and from firsthand knowledge I know they outperform anything in their class.

About all I can say is the only gun I have ever emptied besides my No. 1 and had to reload was a bolt action and after firing four shots I was able to drop another animal. Legally you can shoot three does and keep hunting in Tennessee so a bolt is wonderful if you plan on filling your freezer without climbing down from your treestand.

If I were ever to visit Africa or Alaska I would not want a single shot or double rifle. Bolt actions have been my go to gun whenever I think the action could get heavy and fast and I am serious about killing. I know I can rack off five shots with a 30-06 bolt just because I have been doing it 30 years. Usually at the range trying to blow up 2 liter coke bottles at 50, 75, 100, 125, and 150 yards but I can still do it very fast offhand so my confidence level is off the scale. That matters a lot.

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from Tim Platt wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

http://s11.acephotos.org/images/orig/6/g/6gjbqumwvjo6vwoq.jpg your web site its not user friendly...

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from Happy Myles wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Sorry, but one more thought. Dave, recovering from recoil while shooting big calibers is always subject to debate. My experience indicates calibers that generate high energy by high velocity are more difficult to control after a shot than those firing heavy bullets through heavy barrel or barrels to achieve stopping power.

Do not even get me started on the effect on other shooters standing next to someone using a muzzle break during a dangerous short range charge,

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from Walt Smith wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

So why hasn't anybody (forgive me if they have) built a accurate dependable large bore pump rifle?? It would seem feasable due to the reliability of the pump action and the blazing accurate speed an acomplished shooter can accomplish with one-- or is it just not romantic enough of a weapon for the African hunter and P.H.?? I could see a 25 inch barreled 28 inch tube 5 shot 416 Remington Magnum spoiling a big buffalo's day! What Say You!!

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from Jim in Mo wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Dave P,
Tell me you don't, but you know you do.
A bolt action today may be more practical, but with a straight face tell me you don't want a Jeffrey, Richards, or an Evans. Please don't play with a gunnutz heart.

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from frankies80 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Well we all know that Mr. Petzal is a bolt action afficionado as we could see in his last article of the "gun nut"..... not one side by side, over under or lever action rifle featured, pretty sad though for someone who names an article "the gun nut". And the excuse of America being a bold action country is dumb. I wonder sometimes if he heard of WInchester. ...

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from white bison wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

A double rifle has its niche...I've hunted Africa too, and
once owned a fine Chapuis Double (Chapuis makes more double rifles than any other maker)in 9.3x74. Its niche is dangerous game fairly close. I disagree with Dave some,they work well if good guns and can be reloaded fairly quickly. You have to approach it intelligently,
learn to use the rifle well, get well versed in it. Its
forte is the quick second shot like a double shotgun does.
If you like a side by side double shotgun, you would like the double rifle. John Taylor liked them. I only sold mine because I wanted a heavier caliber than the 9.3x74R. However, I concede the point that a bolt action rifle is more practical..even in large calibers.
Also, the double rifle is short & handy due to the type of shotgun style receiver...where the bolt gun is more clutsy. If you are used to shooting a side by side double shotgun, a double rifle you will find shoots just as handily, and will be used to it. Get one with ejectors. And they can be scoped too, mine was scoped with quick detachable mounts. You don't see PH's using them because they are working men & can't afford them, but I'd bet if you asked them, they'd love to have a big bore double. Price is the object. But a find big bore double still has its place.
Best regards, Tom

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from jersey pig wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

but they are pretty guns.

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from Amflyer wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Having not a double rifle, I wonder if they might be faster for a well-aimed follow-up shot, allowing the shooter to keep their head down and on the sights.

There may be times i would rather have two well placed shots, rather than one well-placed shot and two iffy follow-ups. (Assuming that many bolt-actions chambered for cartridges of consequence have two in the magazine.)

Now if I could work the bolt like Jeff Cooper, that might be a different story.

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from Steve in Virginia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Fair warning -- the following comment/question is based on zero African experience other than watching the Outdoor Channel, but...isn't the benefit of the double rifle that one can get off a well aimed second shot quicker than doing so with a bolt gun (and therefore avoid becoming the aforementioned "greasy spot")?

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from MJC wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

'greasy spot in the long grass'- Capstick is smiling somewhere.

I'd love to try a double someday, but the learning curve to manage more than two shots does seem quite steep.

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from flyfisher946 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Without a doubt the mystic of double rifles far outweighs the suposed advantage. A quality controled feed bolt action of .375 H&H or the surberb .375 Ruger will kill anything on the planet with the properly constructed bullets. Alas many countries have minimum calibre requirements which make little or no sense. you can't kill what you can't hit and one cant hit a darn thing with a flinch that would massacure a flock of guinne fowl.

Cheers

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from Tom-Tom wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

My hunting trips to the Dark Continent have all been vicarious adventures, thanks to some very good outdoor writers. The double rifle was perhaps over romaticised as the weapon of choice for the big five. The only real PH I ever met was in the late 50's and his rifle of choice for backing up his clients on dangerous game was a Winchester Model 70 in .458 if memory serves, saying he wanted the security of several extra rounds as "a buffalo can never be too dead". The only double he used was a 12 guage with buckshot when tracking wounded big cats in the thick stuff. 'Nuff said.

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from Tim Platt wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I will buy a Beretta 455 EELL double rifle when I win the lottery. No reason to have it except as a toy. I can never have enough toys. First I would buy a Porsche 911 Turbo with all the options available.......

I would still probably drive a four wheel drive truck and hunt with a Remington 700. It's just who I am.

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from Sarge01 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I have 0 experience with African hunting and when they put me in the ground,I will have 0 experience with African hunting so my answer means absolutly nothing. I have shot big bore double rifles that curl your toe nails and I have shot big bolt actions that have done the same. I guess I will have to go back to the statement that I always make about rifles. There are two kinds of rifles, bolt actions and all the others. I have shot bolt actions all of my life and quite a few people seem to think that I am pretty fast with a bolt action rifle, for whatever that means.

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from PbHead wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Thanks to Dave and All. I was just about to join the 416 Rigby Club. I was all set to spend an afternoon making $220 worth of bullet holes in paper. Then you came to the rescue with the comments on the 7x57. I took mine out of the safe and now all is well.

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from Happy Myles wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Postscript

For a paying customer, feel have hunted dangerous game quite a bit. The three times have had to stand my ground and face a short range charge have never had time for more than two shots during the initial charge, the animal was dead at that point or I had time to reload having turned it or stopped it. Others may have had different luck or should I say experience.

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from O Garcia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Ah, thanks Happy, for coming in just in time.

As for the 7x57, especially regarding its legend as built up by WDM Bell, I think Bell made it clear in Wanderings Of An Elephant Hunter that the reason he used the 7x57 was because the German-made ammunition at the time was more reliable, went bang every time, the solid bullets did not bend or rivet, the cases came out everytime. I think that with other calibers, Bell experienced some bullet failures and some misfires.

Give the credit to RWS or Dynamit-Nobel. Those Germans (or Austrians, Bavarians, whatever) were good.

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from O Garcia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I suppose if I had money, I would have at least one double. It'll still be "budget", maybe a "relatively" inexpensive Krieghoff or Blaser as opposed to a "London Best" Holland & Holland or Westley-Richards. I don't know, there's just that extra lockup in a German gun that might make me feel safer.

Or I might follow Craig Boddington's tip and buy a used, Plain-Jane, unengraved English double built from a generic Webley lock.

While we fret over the cost of double rifles, a low-priced, used but working double gun could be no more expensive than your D'Arcy Echols Legend or Kenny Jarrett, or Dakota M76, and certainly much less expensive than a David Miller.

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from Bellringer wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I have never had nor do I expect to have any experience in Africa or with a heavy rifle of any sort, however if I could afford it I would buy a double rifle just for the H _ _ _ of it so that when I get older, and someone mentioned said double rifle, I could say with no small amount of smugness, I got mine.

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from Modern Day Moun... wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I'd like to own a double gun, even though I doubt I'll ever make it to Africa.

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from davidpetzal wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

To Jim in Mo: I would absolutely love to have a double, either in .470 or .500. Probably a Heym. They build a very good working double that does not cost as much as a Westley Richards.

To Happy Myles: I agree absolutely about muzzle brakes. A deafened tracker is one who cannot hear the hoofbeats.

To Frankies80: You bet we are a bold action country. That's what made us great.

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from Del in KS wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

This morning I dropped a charging bull dove with a 28 ga load of 71/2 shot. Turned out he had what duck hunters call some jewelry on one leg.

Years ago I knew a Colonel at Ft. Benning that had a nice collection of German drillings. They were awesome guns.

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from Ralph the Rifleman wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I guess some of us working class hunters out here beleive if you can afford to go on an expensive safari(s),then a decent double rifle(in the 10 to 15k range)is not out of the question. As for using a double, it probably comes down to tradition for some of those that use them.I have seen a number of hunts on DVD in which the PH used a double rifle, so I don't beleive they are as scarce as one may think? One PH, in retirement, moved to Alaska, and traded his .470 double for a .375 Bolt to use while in retirement. The guide with the double never regretted the trade, and according to the article, is still guiding with it today.
SO to each his own taste in rifles!

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from Amflyer wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

OK, I see the CZ 550M has lots of cartridges stuffed in the magazine, so forget the "2 rounds in the magazine" statement.

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from ingebrigtsen wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

having shot alot of o/u and s/s shotties in my time reloading is second nature now and is done lightining quick, often while moving etc..
If it didnt require training to get it right it just wouldnt be fun...
Think of a double gun hunt like people do bowhunting etc..
its cos its a bit difficult and require u to learn something complicated...
personally id get a mauser mechanism thats reliable as heck and has a bulletproof safetysystem and train as much as my shoulder could take till i got it right.. just trust those guns more to function ;)

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from Steve in Virginia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Good points -- I'll stick with the bolt gun, Dave, if for no other reason than to avoid that "scrotum-shriveling" problem you mentioned.

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from Mike Plotner wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

one of my buddys has a 7x57 mauser that his dad coustom built for him dont look that pretty but it shoots nice

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from sgaredneck wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

There's part of me that still wants a double just for the sheer romance factor of it. As I sit here at my desk trying to figure out my bills, and trying not to be P-O'd about my Canada trip going down the $#!++er, every year seems to add more responsibilities. I guess what I should really be doing is being thankful for the things I have, and being thankful for my conservative upbringing. I do have toys in the safe, but we also have food on the table and a roof overhead, etc., etc.

Right now that double would be hard to eat.....

Dr. Ralph,
If you spend enough quality time with a Ruger No.1, you will find that it loads rather quickly with good technique. I'm nearly as fast with mine as with a bolt gun. That being said I agree that I wouldn't necessarily want a single for something angry.

S Ga

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from FirstBubba wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

The mystique of the double rifle is enough to shrivel anything!! They are just absolutely awesome.
A bit, but not far, off thread. In the mid to late 70's, Browning offered, I think through a custom shop affair, a double rifle O/U! Don't remember any African calibers, but I do remember it was offered in .30-'06 Spgf and .270 Win!
I spent hours wiping the slobber off the catalogue pages!! To own one in .270 Win would cause some shriveling that would bring on soprano arias!!!

Bubba

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from countitandone wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

DEP ~ What's the chance of you going to next years edition of the club's annual African shoot...let me guess.

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from idduckhntr wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

So Dave I guess I have to talk my wife out of the Sabatti 470 I just talked her into getting me. By the way what do you think of Sabatti.

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from 99explorer wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

In theory at least, the double rifle is faster for two shots, the bolt action is faster for three, and the double is faster for four. So, take your pick.
I think Walt Smith may be onto something with his pump-action .416 Remington Magnum.

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from crm3006 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

The double rifle is a great part of the African mystique, but most of the old pros shot bolt actions. John Rigby's .416 was a game stopper, as was the .458 Win mag, and the humble Holland and Holland .375. As much as I would like to own a double in .470 Nitro Express, if I ever get the chance to hunt Africa, my battery will consist of a .30-'06 for leopard, and the .375 H&H for the bigger antelopes and possibly a Cape Buffalo. Go with what you know, and shoot what you shoot well.

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from Modern Day Moun... wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

even if I do make it to Africa, I don't think I'd use a double while there.

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from shutupnfish wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I'll bet most folks, myself included, would rather read about a hunter being mauled by dangerous game on an African safari while clutching his prized double rifle with the six figure price tag than reading the same article, only the hunter has some old H&H that set him back mayyyyyyybe, what, a couple grand. Please.

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from FirstBubba wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Had I the smoking piles of filthy lucre lying about waiting to trickle through my grubby fingers in exchange for a coveted (near to the point of unforgiveable sin!) double rifle, I think my Capstick addled mind would have to go with the Evans in .470 Nitro.
On the other hand, a custom built Browning O/U in .270 Win sends a shiver down my spine not unlike the '64 Kodiak earthquake!

Bubba
P.S. - I'm so Capstick-cated, make my Evans with a "pink" recoil pad!!! LOL!!!

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from Scott Jones wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I've seen too many bolt gunners who could keep up with semi-autos by working their actions while recovering from recoil. I've yet to see anyone do this with a double.

Dr. Ralph - I don't think you can purchase that, I think you just take up payments.

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from Mock1 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I'm going to botswana next year and will be taking my Marlin 45-70 GG for buff and my BAR .300 win mag for plains game. Why? cause I'm a lefty. I'm almost faster with the GG than the Semiauto

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from Zermoid wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Teddy Roosevelt hunted Africa with a lever action.

Good enuf reason to not worry about a double for me.

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from Jere Smith wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

If I had the money I would but a Holland just because I wanted it .

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from ishawooa wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

My main experiences with double guns are, as said previously, reducing boulders nicely into gravel. I really enjoy reloading for and shooting the Heym .470 NE double. I also feel the same way as Happy about the recoil of high velocity rifles versus slow heavy bullets as the latter seemingly "whacks" you more like a hard shove rahter than a quick punch. Last year I accidently doubled the .470 and only took a step backwards while my friends enjoyed a good laugh mostly at the suprised expression on my face I am certain.
Zermoid: One of Teddy's M-95 .405's of African fame resides in a glass across the street from my office. However if you read his book and examine his photographs you will discover that for truly dangerous game Roosevelt used his Holland double gun. The sporterized Springfield was for plains game. No doubt he took many other weapons with him as well.

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from KJ wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

The doubles I've seen are chambered in calibers that will jar your teeth loose. Toothless with a shriveled scrotum is not among my aspirations.

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from Mock1 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Thanks Happy. I'll email the outfitter today. I do have a left hand 25-06 Savage, but the BAR has never killed anything but one whitetail. I'd like to get my money out of it :)

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from wingshooter54 wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I WOULD LOVE TO OWN A DOUBLE RIFLE!.....in 7x57 rimmed; (or 275 flanged as the Brits called it) I could even go a 9.3x74 and manage it. Any bigger bore than that makes my scrotum shrivel from recoil. It's great to see the praise of the 7x57. My present one is a Ruger no 1A light sporter. Everything shot with it just falls over DRT.(dead right there)

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from Bella wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Double? Make mine a triple, cause it's Drillings that really make me salivate.
Actually I own a "double" my good ole Savage 24,(.22 over .410), but it's hardly for "dangerous game".
I have no plans for Africa, nor any plans for plans about Africa and if anything dangerous comes outa the swamp it's likely a moose, A .308 Winchester or three dispensed from my old KAR98 oughta be sufficient, if there is any scenario that would condone it in a state without any legal moose season. My own untidy swamp is close enough to Africa to me and yes my "double" will do just fine there considering.

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from ishawooa wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

I have not checked in a year or two but on the Heym web site there are some videos regarding their double guns and their bolt actions being fired at a "charging cape" made of cardboard on a cable. Watch them and see which action gets off three effective shots in the shortest amount of time.

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from focusfront wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Being someone who has used only bolts, levers, and semis his whole life, it would seem to me that a double has one huge advantage that nobody ever mentions. With a two triggered double in your hands you essentially are holding two rifles. Dave is worrying about the speed of getting off two or more shots, as he should; but if I was drawing down on an elephant, I would care about the certainty of getting off ONE shot. A double would handle that.

In my forty years of shooting I have had exactly two rounds misbehave; a case head separation (at the range), and a sickening click when I was aiming at a doe. I don't know how much hot gas hits your face when a case separation occurs with a double, but as there are few holes in the action for gas to get through, probably a lot less than with a bolt action. And the sickening click cost me that doe; she busted me when I worked the action. With a double I could just have gone to the second trigger.

If that doe had been a charging elephant I would have been dead. But with with a double I'd have had a completely separate trigger, lockwork, firing pin, and round a fingertip away, and be sure of getting off at least ONE shot. And worry about reloading later. I will never own a double, but I UNDERSTAND why a pro whose job it is to put down angry wounded game would want one.

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from Jim in Mo wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Moishe, if I had the money a Holland it would be. You forgot to include the time it would take to get in line for them to build it for us. In these tough economic times you would think you could get one quick. Not Holland, if you want custom, they are doing good go to their web.

Del, good for you. I couldn't get out of work today, will go tomorrow. Did you call game dept. with number on band?

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from spring wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

On my most recent trip to Tanzania when tracking cape buffalo in the thick bush of the Selous, the confidence I felt with my 470NE while walking along with my hunting partner as he carried a 375H&H was essentially to the level that I felt I was having to protect the fellow with the bolt gun due to his relative lack of firepower in close quarters. The benefits of a big bore that can quickly pound them twice are real and significant when you're in there with them.
If all you're talking about is shooting something at distance, yes, my bolt gun is fine, but in situations for which the double rifle was created, the differences and benefits of the design are enormous.

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from O Garcia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

As Col. Craig Boddington wrote in the old Hunting many years ago, the double is a throwback to the muzzleloading era, when a 2nd gun/rifle, or a 2nd barrel, was your only chance of a quick 2nd shot.

It's not as versatile as a magazine rifle, nor is it as strong (thus the need for low pressure, high capacity cartridge cases), or as accurate. It shoots well with usually just one load, so that load better be one that brings down game. So why?

The side-by-side double rifle, when properly made, is the epitome of reliability: two barrels, two locks, two triggers. If the first barrel misfires, you go to the second, by just moving your trigger finger. The double guarantees that you will get off at least one shot, unless you're using faulty ammo, in which case, you probably deserve what you're gonna get from Mr. Nyati. The double rifle also should handle like a fine shotgun, it must come to the shoulder naturally, it must point naturally and with the sights aligned. Not that you can't aim deliberately with it, some can even be fitted with scopes, but the double should be on target with minimal effort from the hunter, because by the time you shoulder the rifle, the brute that was trying to kill you may be only feet away.

In the client hunter-PH relationship between Robert Ruark and Harry Selby, when they were both carrying heavies, you almost think their guns were reversed. Ruark, the client, carried the .470 NE double, while Selby, the left-handed PH, carried the right-hand bolt-action in .416 Rigby. That no client of Selby ever came out of Africa with horror stories means Selby's reputation must be really solid. He knew how to use his gun, and he knew how to avoid charges.

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from Tim Platt wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

My next purchase would look a lot like this...

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from Happy Myles wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Mock1.
Be sure and check Botswana regulations, I cannot recall their rules, but many African countries won't let you use semi auto's. Kindest Regards

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from Jere Smith wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

After all it should nail down a big Grizz.

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from yohan wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Hmmmm ,..
had a couple nice SXS 12 guages over the years.
They cost as much as the house i grew up in . and a Stevens 12 SXS too
Which I actually liked better becuase I wasnt worried about scratching the stock or whacking the tubes against something .
Sold the expensive ones and went to pumps.
Gave the Stevesn to a kid you needed a gun and could afford one,. which I would have kept it and baught the kid a punp,. : )

Only shot one double rifle ( here in the US ) owned by a French guy I met in college.
It was a SXS 8x57 regulated for 100 yards,(meters) . built by a German company dont recal the make ,.
it was (real purdy) and it kicked like a steer.

A good man with a pump can really schuck the shells ,. but an auto is quicker for the averga joe .

That said a double with one tigger is as quick as anything I ve seen ,.and if you think about it how much time is involved ,. getting to the third shot.

Only had to defend myself twice while hunting
(well 3 times really,. but the third time was irrate woman)
The other two were one black bear and one lion.
Both with a Mauser bolt,.. both were hurt bad with 1st shot ,. both were subsequently sent "on winged flight " with the second ( PH put 3ird in the lion ) just as a matter of course .

So to me a double rifle is a tool used for close clean-up work that absoluty must get done or peole suffer and or die. If it takes three just hope like hell thee is moe than one shooter.

A doube shotgun is just fun and fast.
I do not recal ever getting a 3ird shot at a gouse.
Very probabaly because I did not deserve a 3ird chance : )

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from Jere Smith wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

Del there is a Drilling at Beringers @ Leavenworth 16x16 over 7.62x51 also Cabelas has some too.

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from O Garcia wrote 3 years 32 weeks ago

for the price of this baby right here:
http://www.onlylongrange.com/badnews.asp

you can buy a used double rifle

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from Brian D Fletcher wrote 34 weeks 6 days ago

It's really very easy to get off that 3rd and 4th shot fast.
Especially if the rifle has auto ejectors which most do.
The backup rounds are carried in a belt carrier centered in front or off to the strong side a bit.
My carrier is a leather covered wooden block with the cartridge holes lined with felt for a snug but easy pull.
They "carry" with about 1" exposed, but right before I shoot or feel I'm about to, I pull them halfway out.
The cartridges are angled outward at the top I'd say at 30 degrees or a bit more. They are spaced apart EXACTLY the same distance as they are in the gun.
When the first two rounds are fired, break the gun open and snap it rearward, stock dipping under your arm.
The spent shells will be gone.
NEVER TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE GAME!
Then get the butt back on your shoulder, muzzles down, reach down and with your fingers flat on the frontsides of the cartridges and your thumb arched between the two rounds to act as a spacer, snatch them and drop them in the waiting holes.
Slam it shut, as you do you'll be bringing the sights back up into line with your eye and the target.
It takes a little practice, but then you can really run that double FAST.
If you don't have double rifle shooter handy to teach you this, go to a cowboy action match and get a double shooter to show you with his 12 or 10 gauge.

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