If the school had this "search" planned and tore every vehicle apart that was sitting on that campus then I have no problem with them getting in trouble, they should know better. But if they grabbed a half dozen students becaue they knew they were going to find something then that's wrong. I need to hear all the details before I can really form an opinion on this one.

ah come on now. what happened to the good old days when you could ride with a shotgun in the gun rack without having people freak out? the kids weren't causing any harm, just some good ol' boys. give 'em a break.

They knew better. Good to see them getting out to hunt, but they were wrong. They got caught, the 10 day suspension sounds like a good punishment.....expulsion may be a bit harsh if they have no other disciplinary issues. I'd like to hear more about the circumstances behind how they got caught and what the school may have known prior to the search.

I don't know why this is even a question. You can't bring guns to school, period. Everyone knows that and everyone knows if you get caught with one, you will be expelled. They knew the risk they were taking. The funniest part to me is the mother complaining that they were discriminated against. She's basically saying the police were looking in the vehicles that they thought might have weapons in them, and that that is wrong. Their job is to find weapons and they found weapons, its not their fault your kid brought a gun to school.

It would appear that the authority's definately had it oout for these kids, but on the other when I was in high school, not very long ago, I knew there was a policy against weapons in vehicles on school grounds so I did not bring them. There is undeniably fault on the side of the kids for ignoring the rules, although I do feel like they may have been targeted, they hould be smart enough to prevent that.

About 10 years ago when I was in highschool I had to borrow my granddads pickup because my car was in the shop. the first day I drove it to school I found out he had forgotten to take the .22 out from under the seat when I grapped my bag and it slid out onto the parking lot luckily noone saw me and I picked it up, drove home, and put it in the garage. then went back to school. These kids should have know better.

Its descrimination. Every other groups seems to get to throw down the descrimination card whenever they want. Why can't hunters

I have to go with the Athorities on this one. The kids know good and well that school is a place that you don't bring a firearm, that's why they tried to hide them i9n the first place. As for the bow and paintball gun, that is a spot that could (and in my opinion should be bent) be bent a bit as they are 99.99% hunting tools (for the Archery gear) or not even considered a weapon (the paintball gun) at all. But the kids and the parents knew better than to let the kids take a firearm to school hunters or not, that doesn't sound like anti hunting descremenation to me.

Its their own fault.I knew a couple of guys who were on my shooting team that brought their guns to school. They never told anyone and had them locked in tool boxes or in their trucks. It's a stupid policy, but you have to follow the rules.

Can someone explain to me why it matters if the kids were targeted or not? The point of the search was to find weapons illegaly on school grounds. The cops/authorities/whatever searched the places most likely to contain weapons. What's the problem?

I grew up bringing a gun to school in my truck during hunting season. Am I a terrorist? No. I am a hunter. I live in Montana and the only chance I got to go hunting was before or after school. The only chance I get to go hunting now is before or after work. The gun is still in my truck.

I have no doubt the kids in question didn't mean any harm in bringing their hunting tools on the school campus, but part of being a responsible weapon owner is following the rules. It's not ok to say that some rules you have to follow but some rules you can break. Rules are rules, whether you like them or not. When one member of a community flouts the rules it reflects poorly on the whole community.

The thing of it is - sure, maybe they were singled out because the principal knew they were hunting - but if they'd dropped everything off back at their house before going to school, they wouldn't have gotten in trouble. If dropping stuff off at home makes you late to class, so be it. Being late to school isn't the end of the world, but having weapons charges on your record sure makes life hard. They're just lucky both are under 18 so it's not on their permanent record.

i wonder what they'd find if they searched the principal's belongings? someone who is that paranoid has to be hiding something.

(rumor has it and people say they have seen it)........We have a police officer at our school that goes around and peers in the windows of the kids cars.... wow cant you find other things to do than that

EGG HAS IT RIGHT!! Are we all just sheep? Just because someone has passed a"zero tolerence" policy, doesn't mean that we must all bow down and not expect our school or other officials to use some judgement. I am sick of all of us just going along with all this zero tolerence rubbish! Enough is Enough! Egg is spot on with his reference to probable cause and our liberty. Do not be lulled into giving up your rights because we are becoming hypnotized by the steady drone of the voice of the fearful, lazy or stupid. Just say NO, make the people who are in charge use some judgement. If they are allowed to endless chant "Zero tolerence", we should just hire parrots, they work a lot cheaper.

What next? Being groped by the TSA??

i like my guns too much to do something like that. just because you don't agree with a rule, doesn't mean it can't be enforced. it's not about being a sheep, it's about following the rules like normal people do every day. there are a lot of rules i don't like, but i don't just decide to ignore them because i have to follow them like every one else.

Yep, the boys were wrong but so were the rest of us that allowed these "zero tolerance" idiots be employed and paid by our tax dollars. We vote the school board members in and they hire the administrators. Zero tolerance is NEVER good. Heck, I remember in 1973, sophmore speech class, one of my classmates brought in his bolt action 30/06 and did his demonstration speech on how to dis-assemble and clean it. He did clear it with the principal but nobody else even blinked. Wasn't a big deal. Still shouldn't be. We should be ashamed of ourselves for letting it reach this point.

Like everyone said, Rules are Rules. They are put in place for a reason. I doubt we read half the story of what truly happened. From what I read the 10 day suspension sounds like enough, expulsion is pretty harsh. Depends on the students history of discipline with the school. Either way a lesson is learned and life moves on.

Yes, the zero-tolerance policies are a bunch of junk and they really stink. But the rules are the rules and they are in place for a reason. No, the system is definitely not perfect, but what other choice do you have when a few bad eggs ruin life for everyone else. Its like every other aspect of life these days. Nothing is as good as "it used to be" because a few people decide to screw the system and change everything. You can't pick and choose who gets to do what, so you end up with zero-tolerance situations. Don't misunderstand me, I applaud them for actually going to school after hunting. There were many mornings that I chose to just stay in the woods. But they have to learn to face the consequences of their actions. As long as the consequence fits the crime. They should be suspended for a week and then allowed to continue with their schooling. I wish things were different, but until we rid the world of every bad individual the majority will suffer for the few.

A couple of years ago my son had a multi-tool in his truck at school that was observed by an officer walking through the parking lot looking in vehicles. He was immediately suspended from school and because he was 18 was arrested for having a weapon on campus. The charges were later dropped. My question to the officer was what defines a weapon. Is it the baseball bat in the ballplayer's car, or the screwdriver in the maintenance man's truck or even the pepper spray in the teacher's purse. We have gone to far limiting rights of the many just because of the few, and thrown common sense and good judgement away in the process. I agree we have to maintain safe campuses for our students, but we have to use some of that common sense and good judgement. If the administrators would go out and look at the hunters in their schools,I think they would find that they were the students that were respectful, helpful and involved and should be apprectiated not persecuted. Why I agree that the boys shouldn't have had guns at school, I also feel that the administration if it suspects that during hunting season guns will be an issue it should think out of the box. Maybe if they had created a secured lot that hunters could park in during hunting season it would solve both problems.

ALL OF THESE ANTI GUN PEOPLE KNOW THAT FARMER BOYS HAVE GUNS WITH THEM USSUALLY SO THEY TARGET THOSE KIDS AND GET THEM IN TROUBLE BUT STILL THE MOM KNEW THAT THERE WAS A ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY AT THE SCHOOL SHE SHOULD OF HAD HER KIDS GO HOME AND DROP THE GUNS OFF BEFORE THEY WENT TO SCHOOL

@egg Police Don't need consent to search private property on school grounds. Implied consent to search private property on school grounds IS given to the school authorities, and subsequently delegated to the police.

@udelhofe The Second Amendment DOES NOT trump any school, city, county, or state law. All of our rights have limits as in the First Amendment. You can't yell FIRE! in a crowded theater or publicly theaten to kill the President. Most schools, cities, and states have laws regulating the use of weapons. You may not like that fact, but people can't pick and choose the rules and laws they want to obey.

@IdahoSlim wrote " "Gun-free" victim-disarmament zones have shown themselves to be ineffective at reducing incidents like school shootings. Hopefully someone can bankroll a good lawyer for these folks and maybe get it up to the Supreme Court."

Dream on IdahoSlim.

@Nebraskahunter18 wrote "i understand the gun but the bow.... thats balogna right there... "

You are probably right in that most people are not going to choose to use bow to kill somebody at school, but in the right hands it could be deadly. And like I said before, people can't pick and choose the rules and laws they want to obey.

@Bob81 wrote "Egg, The bar that needs to be crossed for a law enforcement officer to request a search of private property is unbelievably low (not saying it should be, but it is.) I once had my entire car searched after a traffic stop because the officer saw me reach down for my driver's license and thought I "might be trying to hide something." A police officer can request to search your property for any or no reason. However, that doesn't mean you have to let him/her. I gave permission for the search because I figured it would be easier than the alternative (and I was hoping to avoid a speeding ticket), but I was perfectly within my rights to say no. I assume these kids were asked to allow a search of the truck and unfortunately didn't realize they had a legal right to say no. What we should be doing is giving kids a course in civil rights in high school; far too many people have no clue where thier rights begin and end."

You are right that could have told the police officer no, and he/she probably would have impounded your car until a warrant was obtained. Kids at school on the other hand do not have that right, as implied consent to search private property on school grounds is given to the school authorities.

@MLH wrote "Police were called out for a drug search when weapons were the concern - should give a lawyer something to work with."

See previous responce

@hunt-n-fish wrote "We have gone to far limiting rights of the many just because of the few, and thrown common sense and good judgement away in the process. I agree we have to maintain safe campuses for our students, but we have to use some of that common sense and good judgement. If the administrators would go out and look at the hunters in their schools,I think they would find that they were the students that were respectful, helpful and involved and should be apprectiated not persecuted. Why I agree that the boys shouldn't have had guns at school, I also feel that the administration if it suspects that during hunting season guns will be an issue it should think out of the box. Maybe if they had created a secured lot that hunters could park in during hunting season it would solve both problems."

So you are saying that it is ok for students that are respectful, helpful and involved to bring guns to school. What about students that are disrespectful, unhelpful and uninvolved? It doesn't work that way, the rules are the same for all students.

@creds345 wrote "The search was never about guns - it was about drugs. And that was the first time they had ever searched cars. The students had no idea about the lock down and chances are they didn't even think twice about the guns in their car. Honestly, being from the town and school, I am more than confident in the fact that the school was being so tough was to make a statement on the zero tolerance policy to look good in the community. The school can't say that they would have been confident to not find anything - it's a SMALL school where almost everyone hunts. Were the students wrong to have the guns in their vehicles? Yes, no questions about it. But I do think they were framed in a sense, the school knew they'd find something."

If the kids didn't bring guns to school nobody would have been framed in a sense.

Im in highschool and 80% of the hunting season i have my bow locked in the back seat of my truck. Would the same rules apply to a bow?

Affirmed, in part, IdahoSlim; Bob81, reversed and remanded. How much intrusion or coercion of guaranteed liberties are we willing to allow in the name of safety? The article doesn't indicate what the police used for probable cause in order to demand a 'consent' search of private property. Can implied consent to search private property on school grounds be given to the school authorities, and subsequently delegated to the police, via a contract or other item at the time of registration? Is implied consent as to searches conducted on school grounds a part of Michigan law? Was it profiling? Uh-oh, bad word... My inference is that this school is state funded. Is it considered a political subdivision? Does Michigan law regulate how political subdivisions can perform in regard to separate Constitutional rights? I don't know the answers, but think of the process, as described above, in its total scope. Are there better ways to preserve school safety besides targeting individuals or property based on appearance or gut feelings? Peeking through a vehicle window is not prohibited police conduct, however, forcing a search without consent or probable cause can lead to further litigation. There is a fine line between our guaranteed liberties and the protection of society in general, and the line is getting thinner, one rule at a time.

Jamesti _ "it's not about being a sheep, it's about following the rules like normal people do every day. " It IS about being a sheep and not challenging and changing rules that allow people in positions of authority to escape the requirement to use judgement. Additionally, as Americans when do we say enough is enough? This is another example of swallowing something that won't pass constitutional muster in the name of safety. When this discussion or something like it comes up, everyone regurgitates the Columbine mantra. The two homicidal maniacs at Columbine would not have been deterred by a "zero tolerence" policy - they were headed to school that day to commit mass murder. Expulsion threats would not/did not mean anything to them. Another Columbine type event cannot be prevented by threatening to expell students. The only thing this policy prevents is law abiding students from bringing and locking up firearms in their personal vehicles without the threat of mindless punishment. These violations of our civil rights are not mandated by God, just the work of the fearful and overzealous beauricrats. Wake up and do not give up our civil rights without even a whimper.
Punishment should not only fit the crime but should right a wrong. What was the wrong that was committed by having guns locked up, under cover in a privately owned vehicle?

Egg,
The bar that needs to be crossed for a law enforcement officer to request a search of private property is unbelievably low (not saying it should be, but it is.) I once had my entire car searched after a traffic stop because the officer saw me reach down for my driver's license and thought I "might be trying to hide something." A police officer can request to search your property for any or no reason.

However, that doesn't mean you have to let him/her. I gave permission for the search because I figured it would be easier than the alternative (and I was hoping to avoid a speeding ticket), but I was perfectly within my rights to say no. I assume these kids were asked to allow a search of the truck and unfortunately didn't realize they had a legal right to say no. What we should be doing is giving kids a course in civil rights in high school; far too many people have no clue where thier rights begin and end.

The principal of my kids school, here in Iowa just tells the kids to park on the street off school grounds if they have their hunting weapons, no paranoia here.

This was nothing more than a witch hunt. Discrimination of the highest order. Go after the school administration with everything you got. Unacceptable.

when my dad was a junior in highschool in 1981 they gave away shotguns to students who raised enough money during their prom fundraisers. He still has his, an old bolt action 4-10. What happened to the good old days.

i would hunt turkeys last year in the mornings before going to school, always made sure to drop off the gun. id rather be late then face the problems these kids are about to have. i live in michigan as well and know all about these "zero tolerance" policies. the kids meant no harm and the people at the school know that, but there just a bunch of left wing nut jobs that want all guns taken away, i know, ive listened to the teachers....

The search was never about guns - it was about drugs. And that was the first time they had ever searched cars. The students had no idea about the lock down and chances are they didn't even think twice about the guns in their car. Honestly, being from the town and school, I am more than confident in the fact that the school was being so tough was to make a statement on the zero tolerance policy to look good in the community. The school can't say that they would have been confident to not find anything - it's a SMALL school where almost everyone hunts. Were the students wrong to have the guns in their vehicles? Yes, no questions about it. But I do think they were framed in a sense, the school knew they'd find something.

i smell some bullshit, same thing happened in my school over pocket knifes. Schools are getting a little carried away here.