yeah, i've looked into field trials and guess what i've found? it wasn't the dogs that were worthless, it was the owners. i saw a lot of snobbery. i wasn't impressed. guess what. my dog is a rescue dog and the best dog i have ever hunted with. trial dogs or meat dogs? mine is a hunting dog plain and simple. it's about retrieving the birds. my dog will tear a tree down if he gets caught up in it. i've seen him do it. nothing stops him. maybe it's just me, but i see in him a determination that you don't see in a lot of dogs these days. guess he's just happy to have a home or a natural talent. you don't breed natural talent, no matter how much money you spend. your high horse won't work here. go back to your exclusive club and keep downing others and talking about how great your dogs are. here, we look for results, not talk.

Johnny Crockett in 69? 70?

I have mixed feelings on field trials. The sport is great for developing *some* hunting traits, but of late Aside from their excellent noses I've not been impressed with the field trial dogs. Complaints by-n-large: Too hyper. Work much too fast for grouse, work too far and fast from gun.

The dedicated upland hunter be wise to stay clear of field trial champion blood lines.

I just stumbled across this blog from a (gasp)pointing dog field trial bulletin board, and I gotta ask, has anyone commenting on the alleged worthlessness of field trial dogs and the sterling qualities of your "meat dogs" ever actually hunted behind a field trial pointer or retriever, or are you just repeating the same tired, misinformed bull**** you always hear from guys who know zilch about trial dogs?

Hunted behind field trial dogs [setters, pointers, springers] and the hunts were disasters.

These trial dogs noses were superb, but covered so much ground as to be impossible to hunt behind unless the hunter was a dedicated marathon runner. These dogs also were impossible to keep close to the gun, never slow down at a heavy bird scent. When they did point a pheasant, the pheasant ran around them by the time we hunters arrived in gun range. Grouse! These dogs, especially a certain Springer, were lost on the complexities of grouse in spite of their trial history and bloodlines. IMHO:

Wild birds take a *gun dog’s* slower, methodical, head’s up approach, pointing at a distance remaining close to the gun, particularly for grouse. Pheasants and quail can be crowded by a fast, wide-ranging dog to a degree. But the dog’s still worthless if I need to quick step 50-yds over hill and dale to enter gun range.

Jamesti, Some say the great gun dogs died off with their market hunter owners 100-years ago. Remember though, these guys hunted everyday for seven-months. …Think hunting exposure is the key for a great gun dog.

Yep, Johnny Crocket...

Birdhuntr, as a former pointer guy who's on his first setter I've had a lot of fun reading about the history and past greats of the breed. I have to admit I probably would not have known anything about Johnny Crockett had it not been for a great article Tom Davis wrote about him in PDJ not long ago. And Jetsetter is another one I'd love to watch run...

As for the eternal debate over field trial versus "meat" dogs (whatever that is) I think that would make a great subject for an upcoming blog...

Jamesti, that's unfortunate and I'd urge you to give it another try if you're interested. Most of the field trial/hunt test people I've met have been friendly, approachable and eager to answer a newbie's questions.

As for the field trial/meat dog blog, yes, I know Dave did a post on it some time back with his thoughts. However, I view the issue a little differently; I think there's a very important and necessary symbiotic relationship between the field dog/field trial worlds
and I think at some point in the future the topic is worth revisiting from a different perspective.

i agree, chad and look forward to your views on this subject. the people i talked to were from the colorado gundog association. i was interested to see how Chaos stacked up to other dogs because he is my first self trained dog. maybe i'll look around here for a group and see how it goes.

I had the great pleasure of spending a few days with W.C. Kirk, Johnny Crockett's trainer, a couple years ago. I have never met a man of greater integrity or humility. He and Johnny Crockett--his call name was "Boy Dog"--were one of those incredible partnerships that only come along once-in-a-lifetime. They were in the right place at the right time to bring out the greatness in each other. Mr. Kirk lives outside Bowie, TX, and still takes in a few gun dogs for training.

Thanks for those stories, Graycoat Storm. Love hearing 'em.

Jetsetter was picked up in his brace. The only other setter running this year finished the 3 hrs, that was Highground Jax Jabba handled by Lori Steinshouer. Will have to wait until end of next week to see who wins.