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SC Bill Would Punish Landowners For Removing GPS Dog Collars

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February 16, 2012

SC Bill Would Punish Landowners For Removing GPS Dog Collars

By Chad Love

I'm going to the dogs this weekend, which means I'm off to the National Pheasant Fest and Quail Classic in Kansas City, which, unlike SHOT, remains mostly a zombie-free zone. There are, however, tons of upland hunting, gundog and conservation-related vendors and speakers at the trade show. So if there are any training questions you'd like me ask, products you'd like me to keep an eye out for or gundog breeds (there are dozens of breed clubs at the show) you'd be interested in learning more about, be sure to tell me in the comments section.

In the meantime, here's an interesting story that dovetails nicely with my last blog post on GPS technology. South Carolina lawmakers are considering a bill that would make it a crime for anyone other than a dog's owner to remove its GPS tracking collar.

From this story in the Augusta Chronicle:

The sometimes malicious dispute about hunting dogs running loose edged closer to a resolution Wednesday, when lawmakers agreed to advance a tougher law against vandals. At issue before a South Carolina Senate panel was how to punish people who remove or destroy the electronic collar or device a hunter has placed on a hunting dog. The Senate Agriculture and Natural Resources Subcommittee approved the bill, H. 3372, to make it a misdemeanor amid questions about the problem it targets. Rep. Bill Hixon, R-North Augusta, the bill’s sponsor, said he was told by a colleague about a Myrtle Beach man who prides himself on removing hunting dogs’ electronic collars, placing the devices in plastic bags and floating them down a river. The dog owners chase the signal, thinking they are drawing closer to their missing dogs.

Hixon also pointed to an open case in the Upstate, in which a man killed another man’s dog, chopped up its electronic collar and buried the pieces in a tree stump. Authorities charged the man with killing the dog but had no recourse against his destruction of the animal’s collar. Under Hixon’s bill, the penalty for a first-time offender would be a $500 fine or up to 10 days in jail. On Wednesday, the Senate subcommittee sent the bill – and an amendment that would require hunters to put contact information on their dogs’ collars – to the full committee to vote on each piece.

Thoughts? At some $200 a pop for a replacement collar, I would think that intentionally removing a dog's GPS collar is a pretty clear-cut case of theft/vandalism, and would be illegal, anyway. And if said action ultimately led to the death of a dog there might well be other charges, too. What do you think? Good idea? Bad? What about from the landowner's perspective? If you find a dog running on your property what legal rights do you think you should have?

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from fezzant wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

Make removing or otherwise tampering with the collar a crime if you want. In Colorado, it would be covered under "criminal mischief" anyway. Hurt the dog in the course of doing it and, as mentioned, it quickly becomes a case of animal cruelty too.

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from jlyons wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

This is an interesting law. The dog debate will go forever, but when dogs cross boundaries people get VERY upset. I've had many hunts interrupted by someone elses dogs. It angers me like nothing else. I'm curious how they are going to prove someone damaged a collar without seeing them do it. I'm an SC hunter, 90% public land with private land dogs screwing my hunts. I will be following this law

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

If the state is going to jump into that arena, then they should get in it with both feet and also punish dog owners for allowing their dogs to run loose. Should be a rider on that bill to the effect that any dog trespassing on someone else's property can be fined $400. But nooo, that's up to the municipality to deal with that! Hardly fair if you ask me. A bill like that would no doubt put quite a crimp in the hunting style of guys who use hounds to chase bears and deer. Well, cry me a river on that score! I have experienced the same thing as Jlyons: enjoying myself hunting until some runaway pointer from the next county intervenes. Sorry, but I don't see the dog owner's stupid GPS property rights superceding the propery owner's rights to quiet possession of his real estate.

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from billerooo wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

The law is ridiculus. Taking the dog's collar is theft or vandalism - there is not a need for something else. But like Ontario says there needs to be a law for those people whose dogs are running. Other than lead poisioning which could get the land owner in trouble for getting rid of the unwanted canine.

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from Steve Thomas wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

A very good Law IMO, additional wording including unauthorized transport of said dogs without notification within 24hrs, would also be favourable.Dog have gotten lost, out of pens, off chains, stolen, ect, as long as there have been hunting dogs. And yes sometimes it is aggrevating when an unwanted dog shows-up.In the case of hounds, they go where the game goes, just a fact.The best policy when dealing with an unwanted dog's arrival,in an unauthorized area, especially one wearing a GPS collar, is to simply tie it up, look for an ID plate to notify the owner of it's whereabouts.Problem solved.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

Well, let's see ... if the hunter can't trespass on someone else's property to shoot the game, why should his dogs be allowed to chase the game there? Simply saying that "hounds go where the game goes" is not a solution to the "problem". It's just ignoring it. Would I shoot a dog just because his stupid owner allowed it to run amok and ruin my hunt? Of course not. I have dogs and I love them. Would I smash the jerk's GPS? Probably. And he would be picking that mutt up at the Humane Society two counties away. He wrecked my hunt, guess I owe it to him to wreck his too.

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from LRPfonner wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

In my state, a dog perceived as running or harassing livestock or deer can be legally shot by the landowner. With no witnesses, any trespassing dog can be shot and the owner can claim this, no matter how well-trained or "birds-only" you claim your dog is. Chickens are livestock, too.

This encourages people to work on the "Come" command, as well as keeping their eyes on their dogs as much as possible. When the dog is out of sight, how do you hunt over him?? I can understand using the GPS to locate a dog frozen on a point so you can free him up to go home, but really, don't you want your dog to come when called???

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from Steve Thomas wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

GPS is simply a safety effort for the unforseen.Removal voids this effort.Ontario Honker, sometimes communication comprehension on here leaves something to be desired; but it would help if you read it.The solution suggestion I offered was apprehention of the dog.I do not condone intentional trespassing of either Hunters or dogs. But sometimes things get beyond control.It's plain you have little understanding of pursuit dogs and prob. little wish to. As far as ruining your hunt, I'd have to hear the specifics of your complaint. But if you will lay aside your narrow view & vindictive attitude, I'll offer a couple common scenarios.Some Deer hunters seem to believe that Hounds passing through, run all the deer off. Studies have shown deer pay little attention, and most times simply freeze, then continue with their affairs. Exception would be if the dogs were actually after them; and even then, seldom if ever leave their home area. Even in states that permit deer-dogging, they circle back. This is why hunters can harvest from stands.With a bear-hunter hunting from a stand over bait, dogs passing through would indeed disturb a hunt especially if they remained in the area. If they passed through though, it would prob. little affect any bears or deer, other than the one they were actively after.I always try to respect other hunting methods, and only ask the same of others.At my age, it is plain if we don't hang togather we will all hang alone; be we Hunters, Trappers, or Fishermen.

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from RES1956 wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

A bird dog that ranges so far that requires a GPS has no place in my kennel. If I can't get the dog back using a whistle, I don't need that one either. However, those poor unfortunate souls who own such animals probably made them the way they are by lack of working/training the animal to make it a first rate gun dog. A bird dog cannot stay in the kennel 10 months out of the year and be expected to be a first rate gun dog, it just don't happen that way.
But back to the point. These poor dopes have as much right to try to recover their dogs as the next guy and a person should not interfere with that right by removing a collar or destroying the animal. IMO, this is a pretty benign law whether it passes or not and I really don't see much impact it will have either way.

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from billerooo wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

The "right to retrieve" law in Oklahoma has been used to hunt places by letting the hounds out knowing that they will not stay on the place they have permission. When people use this to hunt wrongfully i have a problem with it. I do not have a problem with the hunter/houndsman who has a dog that gets away from them and it is a legitimate deal. And if they are legit on the claim to recover their dog fine - leave your gun at the fence or in your truck and go get your dog. If I have to cross a fence to get downed game or get my dog my gun or bow will not be with me. Nor do I have a problem with that dog that on occassion gets away from their owners by getting off a chain or getting out of a pen. As for the people who constantly let their dogs run (several of which I have as neighbors), those are the kind of dog problems that I do have a problem with. Those are the ones that will get hauled to the pound 2 counties away as Ontario says if I can catch them.

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from Bellringer wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

I live and hunt in Mississippi where deer hunting with dogs has a long tradition, however in recent years the number of hunters using dogs has been declining. Many hunters with few years of hunting experience have never hunted with dogs and therefore do not understand the process.

If dogs caused deer to leave an area en masse, few clubs would have allowed their use over the years. In approximately 50+ years of MS deer hunting I have observed deer many times when dogs were approaching while running a track, unless the dogs seemed to be chasing the deer being observed, said deer did not pay a lot of attention, possibly moving off in another direction to avoid the dogs, but often came back when the dogs moved on.

If dog hunting was as effective as some believe, there would be no deer left to hunt.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

My feeling on the GPS is that it allows lazy handlers the convenience of letting their dogs run wilder than they would if the technology wasn't there. I see no problems with fellas letting their pointers range with beeper collars. They'll never let the dog out of earshot. Formerly, before beepers came along, handlers had to train their pointing dogs to stay even closer - within sight. Are you seeing (or hearing) where I'm going with this? Now that doggie GPS is available who cares if the dog runs all over hell. It can always be found again with the flick of a switch. The evolution of technocrap has made it more convenient for the lazy weekend 2-month-outa-the-year so-called bird dog hunter to get away with half-assed training (exactly the point that RES was getting at). However, the price of these technological shortcuts is too often being paid by the other hunters in the field. And now they want to introduce legislation to make it even more oppressive for them? I don't see how the technocrap owner's rights should supercede other people's rights.

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from Robert Ewing wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

I would think the act of shooting a dog and getting out of your stand to remove its collar, would have done more to ruin a hunt than anything else.Yeah not everyone can rule out or train for every moment in the field.Though it should be remembered that a twohundred-yard cast is acceptable and common,the whistle or call to turn can be washed out by the wind through the dry leaves.With no line of site and a bad turn by the handler the dog could be off and working the wrong side of the fence.Dogs see property line the same way birds-of-prey see them, in either case I wouldn't shoot one or remove their collar.

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from Doggin It wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

Ontario Honker.... Smash a GPS collar and drop the dog off two counties away? You might as well put a .22 to it because most owners won't find it (you are such a dog lover... it's clear). Having a wild dog bust your hunt on private land while the dog was hunting neighboring public land? doubt that's happened, you just like to imagine the worst case scenarios that might involve a new gun dog owner trying to train his new pup on the only land available (public). GPS = lazy handlers? Sorry, some dogs are meant to cover more range than your gray haired ears can hear or possibly understand. Either way, get off your high horse and keep your negative comments to yourself.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

Well, Dog ... I HAVE picked up a GSP that ran into my dogs when I was hunting. No GPS but it did have a beeper with batteries that were long since dead. The dog was amok. If I hadn't had dogs, I don't think I would have been able to get it. It did have a collar and I did phone the owner who was by then several hundred miles away (he went back home and left it there). I put the dog in the local animal shelter and I have no idea if the guy came to pick it up. I somehow doubt it. Now, it did end my hunt for that day because I had to pack up this stupid dog, get myself into cell range, and then take it twenty miles to the nearest shelter. I try to keep my dogs away from fencelines of posted places just as I keep them well away from busy railways and roadways. If my flushers kick up a rooster that flies across Highway 2, I know I stand a slim chance of stopping them. And they stand an even slimmer chance of surviving crossing the highway. I will also keep well away from non-public fencelines if there's anyone hunting on that side. If no one is there I may hunt close to the line and keep calling the dogs back if they cross over. Most landowners find that acceptable. Oh, and I wish I had a buck for every beeper or e-collared dog I have seen run across the road in front of my rig. Opening weekend it's downright hazardous driving!

Look fella, I have been hunting a very long time. A half century next year (wow, I just now did that math for the first time). You can see some of the fruits of my labors in the sixty photos in my profile (none in yours though?) I started out bird hunting and I will end up bird hunting. So I can speak with some authority about the evolution of dog training technocrap and what it has meant to the way dogs are being handled. Yeah, there were always a few dogs running amok. But they didn't last long. If the dog went out of sight it was no good to the hunter. He either broke the dog of it or moved on to another one. Nowadays thanks to technocrap "innovations" hunters can and do let their dogs range all over the damned place. Or the next place or the place beyond that one.

As to your comments about my age: I can still walk 3 miles in under forty minutes. I do it a couple of times a week. Can you? No running, just walking. Good luck trying that when you're sixty years old! The hearing in my left ear is shot from working a jackhammer at an aluminum plant for several years. But I still hear very well in my right ear. I have hunted with several guys who use beeper collars and I hear them just fine. But those guys keep their pointers close and under control. They only use the beepers for the really thick stuff down along the creeks. Otherwise they, like me, find the dang things annoying. Yes, it is such a wonderfully enriching natural experience to be out in God's country listening to that BEEP ... BEEP ... BEEP all the time!

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

Oh, before I forget, in fifty years of hunting I have never had any of my dogs get out of sight/earshot until this year (Brittany pup took off after a jackrabbit and went over the hill for about five minutes).

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from okie_goose_hntr wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

I own the land I hunt on and wish people would have keep their dogs off my place. I can understand the ocassional one that gets away from people - thats understandable. But when the same guys let their coon dogs loose on the 40 acres next to me repeatedly expecting me to believe that they cross my fence and tree the coon a half mile away on my place repeatedly. And repeatedly expect me to not mind when their dog wakes everyone in my house up. Those are the ones I have an issue with.

I am sure that the coons that the dog trees are at the corn feeder in my yard. The dog keeps treeing them in my yard.

I don't care if you are hunting bird, coons, deer, hogs, etc. - don't abuse the rules and do everything you can to keep your dogs where they belong.

Doggin, you sound like the guys I keep running off my place telling me that they are tracking a deer they wounded (but can't show me a blood trail or where it crossed the fence) or the coon hunters I keep having issues with. If you or your dogs can't stay where they are supposed to then neither of you should be out in the field.

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from NCHunter wrote 2 years 7 weeks ago

North Carolina already has a similar law in place but I have never heard of anyone being charged with it. As a coon hunter the garmin tracking system has been a blessing for me for the exact reasons listed in the comments above. As mentioned above hounds go where the game goes and can easily get out hearing in a matter of minutes. The garmin allows me to head off my dogs and keep them on the property where they are supposed to be. I never had much trouble with my dogs getting off property before and now its almost none. It also doesn't hurt that half of the county I live in is public land and what private land I hunt is large (40 acres isn't near big enough for coon hunting). The only time I have had someone mess with one of my collars is when my dog came out on a gravel road in the Nantahala National Forest and some tourist stopped and caught him about two minutes before I got there. When I pulled up they handed me the dog and my collar and said they removed it because they didn't want him to get shocked. I explained to them that it was a tracking collar and not a shocking collar and they seemed very interested as they asked me about the ins and outs of hound hunting. Some of my friends however have had collars removed and destroyed and after my incident I wondered if it is because people think that they are shock collars. Every incident I know of has been on public land and not private.

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from Steve Thomas wrote 2 years 7 weeks ago

Good post, NC. This subject has hit a nerve.I was speaking of Hounds. My experiance has been much like yours X-10. Most of my hunting and my partners has been on Public land.In these rugged mnts., it is not always possible to be right there, or sometimes the signal "bounces" sending you the wrong direction.Time after time "Do-gooders" have interupted races or picked-up dogs "homing" to the turn-out; hauling them out of the area, sometimes to shelters, exposing them to Parvo & such or being put down before found.One time 200mi. Had the Vet where he was left not notified me, I would never had found him.Some remove the collars for the reason you stated; some are radical-greenies who remove, discard then release the dogs, more than once cutting them off rather than unbuckling. Thinking the GPS gives a hunter some imaginary advantage, other than simply knowing their location.Some are dog-thieves.One time had a bit of revenge on a thief; had turned-loose that evening and spent most of the nite searching a terrible broken-mountainous area where you had to be in the same canyon to get a signal to no avail, ran low on gas and went to a nearby town. Since we were at a different angle, decided to take a reading. Because of the distance I had it turned way up. Nearly blew-out my ear-drums.Found the collar under a step in a trailor-court; dog recognised the sound of my truck and bawled "lost" in the back yard, I hopped the fence and retrieved him, nameplate collar was missing too.Guy stuck his head out of the door and demanded what I was doing, as I was loading him. I was quite aggrevated to begin with, but when he claimed he bought the dog the day before, I got red-hot. Eased closer as we talked, then shut his head in the door and punched tar out of it. Then dragged him out and over to the dipsty-dumpster, threw him in with the rest of the garbage and latched the lid. Went home, and figured I'd be getting a visit from the sheriff, but lucked-out.One time, collars were removed, Tracking & Nameplate the dog was hauled to a humane society shelter with the statement, "Do not return this dog to owner,it has been abused". Another time the dog was taken to a pound and tied to the door-knob w/a rope in the off hours w/a similar note; as luck would have it, the pound was 3mi from home. The dog chewed loose and came home, unfortunately having to cross two busy highways in the process. Luckily safely.

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from Pray- hunt-work wrote 2 years 6 weeks ago

I guess I'm lucky that I live where I do. I would say that some 90% of landowners enjoy seeing us hunt in their neighborhood, and generally on their land. The only land owners that fuss about us are either tree-hugging burnouts or someone who truely had a bad expeirence with a bad group of hunters. We coyote hunt with dogs that sometimes cover 20-25 miles a day. Running walkers mostly, all with either Garmin 220 or 320 tracking collars, and also some guys run back-up radio collars. The only reason the we use the collars is as a locator for the dogs safety. We don't worry about who's land per-say they cross, if were not welcome on the land we just pass around it and onto the next piece. We have now killed somewhere near 40 coyotes since dec 15 2011 (the end of muzzle loading). If not for our hounds and our tracking systems we wouldnt be nearly as successful.

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from Pray- hunt-work wrote 2 years 6 weeks ago

But guys, rather than making threats or breaking our stuff, change out of your camo skirts and ask to tag along for a day, we'll stick you on a good crossing lend you a tracking system and hope that you enjoy our ethical hunt as much as we do.

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from fezzant wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

Make removing or otherwise tampering with the collar a crime if you want. In Colorado, it would be covered under "criminal mischief" anyway. Hurt the dog in the course of doing it and, as mentioned, it quickly becomes a case of animal cruelty too.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

If the state is going to jump into that arena, then they should get in it with both feet and also punish dog owners for allowing their dogs to run loose. Should be a rider on that bill to the effect that any dog trespassing on someone else's property can be fined $400. But nooo, that's up to the municipality to deal with that! Hardly fair if you ask me. A bill like that would no doubt put quite a crimp in the hunting style of guys who use hounds to chase bears and deer. Well, cry me a river on that score! I have experienced the same thing as Jlyons: enjoying myself hunting until some runaway pointer from the next county intervenes. Sorry, but I don't see the dog owner's stupid GPS property rights superceding the propery owner's rights to quiet possession of his real estate.

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from Steve Thomas wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

A very good Law IMO, additional wording including unauthorized transport of said dogs without notification within 24hrs, would also be favourable.Dog have gotten lost, out of pens, off chains, stolen, ect, as long as there have been hunting dogs. And yes sometimes it is aggrevating when an unwanted dog shows-up.In the case of hounds, they go where the game goes, just a fact.The best policy when dealing with an unwanted dog's arrival,in an unauthorized area, especially one wearing a GPS collar, is to simply tie it up, look for an ID plate to notify the owner of it's whereabouts.Problem solved.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

Well, let's see ... if the hunter can't trespass on someone else's property to shoot the game, why should his dogs be allowed to chase the game there? Simply saying that "hounds go where the game goes" is not a solution to the "problem". It's just ignoring it. Would I shoot a dog just because his stupid owner allowed it to run amok and ruin my hunt? Of course not. I have dogs and I love them. Would I smash the jerk's GPS? Probably. And he would be picking that mutt up at the Humane Society two counties away. He wrecked my hunt, guess I owe it to him to wreck his too.

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from LRPfonner wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

In my state, a dog perceived as running or harassing livestock or deer can be legally shot by the landowner. With no witnesses, any trespassing dog can be shot and the owner can claim this, no matter how well-trained or "birds-only" you claim your dog is. Chickens are livestock, too.

This encourages people to work on the "Come" command, as well as keeping their eyes on their dogs as much as possible. When the dog is out of sight, how do you hunt over him?? I can understand using the GPS to locate a dog frozen on a point so you can free him up to go home, but really, don't you want your dog to come when called???

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from RES1956 wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

A bird dog that ranges so far that requires a GPS has no place in my kennel. If I can't get the dog back using a whistle, I don't need that one either. However, those poor unfortunate souls who own such animals probably made them the way they are by lack of working/training the animal to make it a first rate gun dog. A bird dog cannot stay in the kennel 10 months out of the year and be expected to be a first rate gun dog, it just don't happen that way.
But back to the point. These poor dopes have as much right to try to recover their dogs as the next guy and a person should not interfere with that right by removing a collar or destroying the animal. IMO, this is a pretty benign law whether it passes or not and I really don't see much impact it will have either way.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

My feeling on the GPS is that it allows lazy handlers the convenience of letting their dogs run wilder than they would if the technology wasn't there. I see no problems with fellas letting their pointers range with beeper collars. They'll never let the dog out of earshot. Formerly, before beepers came along, handlers had to train their pointing dogs to stay even closer - within sight. Are you seeing (or hearing) where I'm going with this? Now that doggie GPS is available who cares if the dog runs all over hell. It can always be found again with the flick of a switch. The evolution of technocrap has made it more convenient for the lazy weekend 2-month-outa-the-year so-called bird dog hunter to get away with half-assed training (exactly the point that RES was getting at). However, the price of these technological shortcuts is too often being paid by the other hunters in the field. And now they want to introduce legislation to make it even more oppressive for them? I don't see how the technocrap owner's rights should supercede other people's rights.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

Well, Dog ... I HAVE picked up a GSP that ran into my dogs when I was hunting. No GPS but it did have a beeper with batteries that were long since dead. The dog was amok. If I hadn't had dogs, I don't think I would have been able to get it. It did have a collar and I did phone the owner who was by then several hundred miles away (he went back home and left it there). I put the dog in the local animal shelter and I have no idea if the guy came to pick it up. I somehow doubt it. Now, it did end my hunt for that day because I had to pack up this stupid dog, get myself into cell range, and then take it twenty miles to the nearest shelter. I try to keep my dogs away from fencelines of posted places just as I keep them well away from busy railways and roadways. If my flushers kick up a rooster that flies across Highway 2, I know I stand a slim chance of stopping them. And they stand an even slimmer chance of surviving crossing the highway. I will also keep well away from non-public fencelines if there's anyone hunting on that side. If no one is there I may hunt close to the line and keep calling the dogs back if they cross over. Most landowners find that acceptable. Oh, and I wish I had a buck for every beeper or e-collared dog I have seen run across the road in front of my rig. Opening weekend it's downright hazardous driving!

Look fella, I have been hunting a very long time. A half century next year (wow, I just now did that math for the first time). You can see some of the fruits of my labors in the sixty photos in my profile (none in yours though?) I started out bird hunting and I will end up bird hunting. So I can speak with some authority about the evolution of dog training technocrap and what it has meant to the way dogs are being handled. Yeah, there were always a few dogs running amok. But they didn't last long. If the dog went out of sight it was no good to the hunter. He either broke the dog of it or moved on to another one. Nowadays thanks to technocrap "innovations" hunters can and do let their dogs range all over the damned place. Or the next place or the place beyond that one.

As to your comments about my age: I can still walk 3 miles in under forty minutes. I do it a couple of times a week. Can you? No running, just walking. Good luck trying that when you're sixty years old! The hearing in my left ear is shot from working a jackhammer at an aluminum plant for several years. But I still hear very well in my right ear. I have hunted with several guys who use beeper collars and I hear them just fine. But those guys keep their pointers close and under control. They only use the beepers for the really thick stuff down along the creeks. Otherwise they, like me, find the dang things annoying. Yes, it is such a wonderfully enriching natural experience to be out in God's country listening to that BEEP ... BEEP ... BEEP all the time!

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from okie_goose_hntr wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

I own the land I hunt on and wish people would have keep their dogs off my place. I can understand the ocassional one that gets away from people - thats understandable. But when the same guys let their coon dogs loose on the 40 acres next to me repeatedly expecting me to believe that they cross my fence and tree the coon a half mile away on my place repeatedly. And repeatedly expect me to not mind when their dog wakes everyone in my house up. Those are the ones I have an issue with.

I am sure that the coons that the dog trees are at the corn feeder in my yard. The dog keeps treeing them in my yard.

I don't care if you are hunting bird, coons, deer, hogs, etc. - don't abuse the rules and do everything you can to keep your dogs where they belong.

Doggin, you sound like the guys I keep running off my place telling me that they are tracking a deer they wounded (but can't show me a blood trail or where it crossed the fence) or the coon hunters I keep having issues with. If you or your dogs can't stay where they are supposed to then neither of you should be out in the field.

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from NCHunter wrote 2 years 7 weeks ago

North Carolina already has a similar law in place but I have never heard of anyone being charged with it. As a coon hunter the garmin tracking system has been a blessing for me for the exact reasons listed in the comments above. As mentioned above hounds go where the game goes and can easily get out hearing in a matter of minutes. The garmin allows me to head off my dogs and keep them on the property where they are supposed to be. I never had much trouble with my dogs getting off property before and now its almost none. It also doesn't hurt that half of the county I live in is public land and what private land I hunt is large (40 acres isn't near big enough for coon hunting). The only time I have had someone mess with one of my collars is when my dog came out on a gravel road in the Nantahala National Forest and some tourist stopped and caught him about two minutes before I got there. When I pulled up they handed me the dog and my collar and said they removed it because they didn't want him to get shocked. I explained to them that it was a tracking collar and not a shocking collar and they seemed very interested as they asked me about the ins and outs of hound hunting. Some of my friends however have had collars removed and destroyed and after my incident I wondered if it is because people think that they are shock collars. Every incident I know of has been on public land and not private.

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from jlyons wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

This is an interesting law. The dog debate will go forever, but when dogs cross boundaries people get VERY upset. I've had many hunts interrupted by someone elses dogs. It angers me like nothing else. I'm curious how they are going to prove someone damaged a collar without seeing them do it. I'm an SC hunter, 90% public land with private land dogs screwing my hunts. I will be following this law

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from billerooo wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

The law is ridiculus. Taking the dog's collar is theft or vandalism - there is not a need for something else. But like Ontario says there needs to be a law for those people whose dogs are running. Other than lead poisioning which could get the land owner in trouble for getting rid of the unwanted canine.

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from Steve Thomas wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

GPS is simply a safety effort for the unforseen.Removal voids this effort.Ontario Honker, sometimes communication comprehension on here leaves something to be desired; but it would help if you read it.The solution suggestion I offered was apprehention of the dog.I do not condone intentional trespassing of either Hunters or dogs. But sometimes things get beyond control.It's plain you have little understanding of pursuit dogs and prob. little wish to. As far as ruining your hunt, I'd have to hear the specifics of your complaint. But if you will lay aside your narrow view & vindictive attitude, I'll offer a couple common scenarios.Some Deer hunters seem to believe that Hounds passing through, run all the deer off. Studies have shown deer pay little attention, and most times simply freeze, then continue with their affairs. Exception would be if the dogs were actually after them; and even then, seldom if ever leave their home area. Even in states that permit deer-dogging, they circle back. This is why hunters can harvest from stands.With a bear-hunter hunting from a stand over bait, dogs passing through would indeed disturb a hunt especially if they remained in the area. If they passed through though, it would prob. little affect any bears or deer, other than the one they were actively after.I always try to respect other hunting methods, and only ask the same of others.At my age, it is plain if we don't hang togather we will all hang alone; be we Hunters, Trappers, or Fishermen.

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from billerooo wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

The "right to retrieve" law in Oklahoma has been used to hunt places by letting the hounds out knowing that they will not stay on the place they have permission. When people use this to hunt wrongfully i have a problem with it. I do not have a problem with the hunter/houndsman who has a dog that gets away from them and it is a legitimate deal. And if they are legit on the claim to recover their dog fine - leave your gun at the fence or in your truck and go get your dog. If I have to cross a fence to get downed game or get my dog my gun or bow will not be with me. Nor do I have a problem with that dog that on occassion gets away from their owners by getting off a chain or getting out of a pen. As for the people who constantly let their dogs run (several of which I have as neighbors), those are the kind of dog problems that I do have a problem with. Those are the ones that will get hauled to the pound 2 counties away as Ontario says if I can catch them.

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from Bellringer wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

I live and hunt in Mississippi where deer hunting with dogs has a long tradition, however in recent years the number of hunters using dogs has been declining. Many hunters with few years of hunting experience have never hunted with dogs and therefore do not understand the process.

If dogs caused deer to leave an area en masse, few clubs would have allowed their use over the years. In approximately 50+ years of MS deer hunting I have observed deer many times when dogs were approaching while running a track, unless the dogs seemed to be chasing the deer being observed, said deer did not pay a lot of attention, possibly moving off in another direction to avoid the dogs, but often came back when the dogs moved on.

If dog hunting was as effective as some believe, there would be no deer left to hunt.

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from Robert Ewing wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

I would think the act of shooting a dog and getting out of your stand to remove its collar, would have done more to ruin a hunt than anything else.Yeah not everyone can rule out or train for every moment in the field.Though it should be remembered that a twohundred-yard cast is acceptable and common,the whistle or call to turn can be washed out by the wind through the dry leaves.With no line of site and a bad turn by the handler the dog could be off and working the wrong side of the fence.Dogs see property line the same way birds-of-prey see them, in either case I wouldn't shoot one or remove their collar.

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from Doggin It wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

Ontario Honker.... Smash a GPS collar and drop the dog off two counties away? You might as well put a .22 to it because most owners won't find it (you are such a dog lover... it's clear). Having a wild dog bust your hunt on private land while the dog was hunting neighboring public land? doubt that's happened, you just like to imagine the worst case scenarios that might involve a new gun dog owner trying to train his new pup on the only land available (public). GPS = lazy handlers? Sorry, some dogs are meant to cover more range than your gray haired ears can hear or possibly understand. Either way, get off your high horse and keep your negative comments to yourself.

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from Ontario Honker ... wrote 2 years 8 weeks ago

Oh, before I forget, in fifty years of hunting I have never had any of my dogs get out of sight/earshot until this year (Brittany pup took off after a jackrabbit and went over the hill for about five minutes).

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from Steve Thomas wrote 2 years 7 weeks ago

Good post, NC. This subject has hit a nerve.I was speaking of Hounds. My experiance has been much like yours X-10. Most of my hunting and my partners has been on Public land.In these rugged mnts., it is not always possible to be right there, or sometimes the signal "bounces" sending you the wrong direction.Time after time "Do-gooders" have interupted races or picked-up dogs "homing" to the turn-out; hauling them out of the area, sometimes to shelters, exposing them to Parvo & such or being put down before found.One time 200mi. Had the Vet where he was left not notified me, I would never had found him.Some remove the collars for the reason you stated; some are radical-greenies who remove, discard then release the dogs, more than once cutting them off rather than unbuckling. Thinking the GPS gives a hunter some imaginary advantage, other than simply knowing their location.Some are dog-thieves.One time had a bit of revenge on a thief; had turned-loose that evening and spent most of the nite searching a terrible broken-mountainous area where you had to be in the same canyon to get a signal to no avail, ran low on gas and went to a nearby town. Since we were at a different angle, decided to take a reading. Because of the distance I had it turned way up. Nearly blew-out my ear-drums.Found the collar under a step in a trailor-court; dog recognised the sound of my truck and bawled "lost" in the back yard, I hopped the fence and retrieved him, nameplate collar was missing too.Guy stuck his head out of the door and demanded what I was doing, as I was loading him. I was quite aggrevated to begin with, but when he claimed he bought the dog the day before, I got red-hot. Eased closer as we talked, then shut his head in the door and punched tar out of it. Then dragged him out and over to the dipsty-dumpster, threw him in with the rest of the garbage and latched the lid. Went home, and figured I'd be getting a visit from the sheriff, but lucked-out.One time, collars were removed, Tracking & Nameplate the dog was hauled to a humane society shelter with the statement, "Do not return this dog to owner,it has been abused". Another time the dog was taken to a pound and tied to the door-knob w/a rope in the off hours w/a similar note; as luck would have it, the pound was 3mi from home. The dog chewed loose and came home, unfortunately having to cross two busy highways in the process. Luckily safely.

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from Pray- hunt-work wrote 2 years 6 weeks ago

I guess I'm lucky that I live where I do. I would say that some 90% of landowners enjoy seeing us hunt in their neighborhood, and generally on their land. The only land owners that fuss about us are either tree-hugging burnouts or someone who truely had a bad expeirence with a bad group of hunters. We coyote hunt with dogs that sometimes cover 20-25 miles a day. Running walkers mostly, all with either Garmin 220 or 320 tracking collars, and also some guys run back-up radio collars. The only reason the we use the collars is as a locator for the dogs safety. We don't worry about who's land per-say they cross, if were not welcome on the land we just pass around it and onto the next piece. We have now killed somewhere near 40 coyotes since dec 15 2011 (the end of muzzle loading). If not for our hounds and our tracking systems we wouldnt be nearly as successful.

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from Pray- hunt-work wrote 2 years 6 weeks ago

But guys, rather than making threats or breaking our stuff, change out of your camo skirts and ask to tag along for a day, we'll stick you on a good crossing lend you a tracking system and hope that you enjoy our ethical hunt as much as we do.

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