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February 24, 2010
Petzal: Who Knows What Horrors Lurk?
By David E. Petzal
A Hawkeye borescope is a pair of steel 17-inch tubes (they give you two different views of what they see) containing gradient lenses and a light. When you poke it down your barrel you see what is actually there, as opposed to the bright, shiny surface you see when you squint down it with the naked eye. For about the price of a good scope sight, you can tell a bad barrel from a good barrel without firing a shot, see when you’re really done cleaning the bore as opposed to when you think you are, and detect what’s wrong with your rifle when the friggin’ thing won’t shoot.
Here are some of the neat things you can see:
A damaged land. I have no idea how this was done, but it has wrecked the barrel for good.That gouge is going to tear any bullet that passes over it.
Pitting. This is one of the things that happens when you don’t clean your bore. The steel is eaten away by corrosion.
A tackdriver bore. No copper fouling, no radial toolmarks, everything nice and smooth.
Scorched steel. Eventually, this happens to all barrels. When it extends far enough up the bore, it’s time for a new tube.
Rust. Death on barrels, and no excuse for it.
Hawkeye borescopes are fragile, as I found out to my sorrow last winter when I dropped mine. However, they have the best repair service of any company I’ve ever worked with. I got the scope back within a week, as good as new.
Gradientlens.com. You’ll wonder how you ever got along without one.
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Comments (42)
I woke up during a colonoscopy once and saw similar stuff right there on the tv screen. Rust, pitting, corrosion, damaged lands and no hope for a new tube.
Was I an FFL or collector I'd have one. That is a really handy tool.
Fortunately, it's usually easy to spot a badly maintained, infrequently cleaned rifle. See them all the time at gun shows. They look just as cruddy on exterior as those rusted n fouled barrels.
Good tool, even though slightly expensive for the non-gunsmith or average shooter. A trip to a gunsmith that will scope your barrel will definitely show you things that the naked eye and a bore light will never reveal.
Douglas, that is borderline TMI, but hilarious. Just be thankful they didn't use a bore brush on you.
A little pricey, but if you have high dollar guns, a good investment.
Good thing to have at a gun show.
Certainly a good investment for the gun churners of the world.
I could easily see a tool as such paying for itself in short order.
In the late '80s, at an old company, we bought a couple of $10K+ fiberoptic units to study all types of phenomena for automotive applications. Could change the focal distance and heads on those and guide them in all sorts of places because they were flexible. Newer ones use miniture camera heads. Always wanted one of my own. These might be simpler but a whole lot cheaper. I want one - would use it every time I clean or buy a new gun.
Douglas: an enema with Hoppe's No. 9 Powder Solvent will fix you up right away.
P.S. to DP: how about a rant, or at least a comment, on the Feb. 24 NY Times article on greater firearm freedom?
A great peice of technology for sure! Douglas "TMI" LOL.
I own a Hawkeye borescope, and they expensive, I feel it has saved money and less frustration over time.
Great post. I really wonder how that gouge in the land happened too? Care to speculate?
What a wonderful tool to have. How many, though, are going to pass it up due to expense, just to spend much more on a gun with a poor barrel, or replace a gun because they didn't know what was going on in the barrel?
Thanks for the info. I can now blame even more on my poor shooting!! Seriously though, take care of your guns
You shamed me into pulling my rifles out tonight for another cleaning.
P.S. Good for the teacher in Colorado who tackled the deranged shooter. Boo for the laws that keep firearms off campus for qualified individuals.
P.S.S, the tackdriver bore. That must be a new unused rifle or a man very bored.
Dave Petzal: How far up a barrel before scorching has forever ruined it? 10%? 25%; more?
This is a good example of being BARREL ANAL;CLEAN YOUR D*MN RIFLE OFTEN!
I have found that I can get a very good look at the first inch of a bore using a jeweller's loupe at the muzzle and a bore light at the breach. I then proceed on the assumption that the remainder of the bore is in the same condition as that first inch at the muzzle (except of course for the first inch at the other end).
What Irks me the most about our local coverage of the Colorado shooting is they use a picture of a handgun as an intro to the story even though a 30-06 rifle was used. And they never mentioned that in the web story, don't know about the newscast.
http://wearecentralpa.com/content/fulltext/?cid=152302
A damaged land, the first picture. I'm going to take a stab at it. Somebody has taken the handle off a cleaning rod and stuck it into a drill. Notice how the gouges don't go with the rifling instead across it at 90 degrees and breaking off a portion.
To Carney: There's no rule of thumb. I know of a .220 Swift that did not give up the ghost until it was burned out halfway up the barrel. One of my .30/06s has no rifling for the first 4 inches north of the lede, and is no longer a tackdriver, but it can still deliver 1.5 inch groups. Generally, your rifle will lose its best accuracy long before it becomes unusable altogether.
well, all of my rifles shoot better than i do. so i am not going to buy one. besides, if i did, i would get so upset about every little scratch, or imperfection, i would probably sell every gun i own. i do like a smooth bore much better than a rough one. and i have used firelapping (David Tubbs Final Finish System) to improve one that looked like it was made with a hammer and chisle (a brand new rifle, which i did not discover until i went to clean it, and it tore cleaning patches to shreds). i am currently haveing my remington 700 rebarreled, and i will be firelapping that when i get it home as well. it certainly makes them much easier to clean. thank you David Tubbs!
Thanks Mr Petzal - for me, one of the better posts in awhile.
Dave,
What about firelapping? I know I've seen rough bores that would shoot. Is it an "accepted truth" that a smooth bore will shoot better than a rough bore? Should this be a logical next step for a rifle with average accutacy?
As to Clay's comment on the drill damaged bore, I've seen gunsmiths try to save a muzzleloader using that method to remove rust. Their comment was "Its already ruined by neglect, what am I going to do, hurt it?"
To 3Kidsdad: One of the few things of which I am certain is that there is no connection between barrel smoothness and barrel accuracy. Time and again I've seen rough barrels--cut rifled, hammered, and buttoned--that shot extremely well. High-quality barrels are always smooth because their makers insist on it, but I believe that straightness, freedom from stress, and dimensional consistency are the factors that produce accuracy.
I have a friend who builds custom rifles. He has a Hawkeye borescope. He charges me $15 per gun to show me the inside of my barrels. So far I've spent $45 to inspect 3 rifles; much cheaper than my investing in one. Also I've found out that my Browning A-Bolt 7X08 has a okay, but not great barrel; my Ruger No. 1 in 7X57 has a better barrel than the Browning and my Kimber 84M Montana in .260 Rem has a pretty decent barrel but collects copper fouling like a salvage yard scrounger (it's new though so may not be broken in and smoothed out yet). The one thing they all have in common -- they all shoot into an inch when I get 'em clean.
Mr Petzal
There are certainly ways to prematurely terminate the useful life of a barrel, but what about barrel life for a well maintainied one?
Could you post about barrel life in general? I read all manner of diverse opinions on barrel life. For example, how long would one expect barrels on rifles such as .35 Whelen, .30-06, and 7mm Weatherby's to last with average care? Thanks.
Wow this thing is pretty cool, This would be an asset at a Gun Show to push you over the edge to lay down the cash for an iffy gun. I want one!
For the price of one of those, you could just buy a new rifle, or two, or ten. I think I'll stick with the old-fashioned way of doing things. Congrats to those who can afford 'em.
That first reply had me rolling on the floor ! I hope petzal likes it too. I didn't watch my colonoscopy, it was good thankfully, and so are my bores.
It's a gun toy. Useful? Economic? I just want it.
I like the tackdriver bore. The ragged ones with radial machine marks should be advertised as such. with warning labels.
Great article Mr. Petzal! It is sure easy to see why the tack driver is easier to clean and shoots better. I would love to see a test of factory barrels for comparison and a test of barrel erosion over time as thousands of shots go down the tube using various cartriges. I would also like to see if some fairly rough rifling will smooth out over time with regular cleaning. I wish we had a consumer reports type testing done on various barrels so we could see what we are buying. I would also like to see what the Tubbs firelapping product does to a good barrel and to a not so good barrel.
When I go to a gun show and look at a rifle with a filthy barrel, I am inclined to think the bore wasn't cleaned in order to hide defects. Not even a Hawkeye can penetrate past all of that crud left in so many gun show firearms!
When I go to a gun show and look at a rifle with a filthy barrel, I am inclined to think the bore wasn't cleaned in order to hide defects. Not even a Hawkeye can penetrate past all of that crud left in so many gun show firearms!
Douglas, I'm so happy your comment was the first, because I may have missed it otherwise, and that would have been a shame. One of the funnier things I've read in awhile.
that last bore was in a=some bad shape=(
I bought a shotgun about 1 year ago and i did not know that it had pitting on the inside of the barrel. i Could not get off 1 accurate shot. I had to by a new barrel. This article is great as a set of guidlines for anybody who is buying a used gun to check over the barrel
A little pricey, but if you have high dollar guns, a good investment.Sesli chat
Sesli sohbet
Photos are amazing. Especially the one showing the rust in the barrel.
bread machines
Post a Comment
I woke up during a colonoscopy once and saw similar stuff right there on the tv screen. Rust, pitting, corrosion, damaged lands and no hope for a new tube.
Douglas, that is borderline TMI, but hilarious. Just be thankful they didn't use a bore brush on you.
Dave Petzal: How far up a barrel before scorching has forever ruined it? 10%? 25%; more?
A damaged land, the first picture. I'm going to take a stab at it. Somebody has taken the handle off a cleaning rod and stuck it into a drill. Notice how the gouges don't go with the rifling instead across it at 90 degrees and breaking off a portion.
Was I an FFL or collector I'd have one. That is a really handy tool.
Fortunately, it's usually easy to spot a badly maintained, infrequently cleaned rifle. See them all the time at gun shows. They look just as cruddy on exterior as those rusted n fouled barrels.
Good tool, even though slightly expensive for the non-gunsmith or average shooter. A trip to a gunsmith that will scope your barrel will definitely show you things that the naked eye and a bore light will never reveal.
This is a good example of being BARREL ANAL;CLEAN YOUR D*MN RIFLE OFTEN!
To Carney: There's no rule of thumb. I know of a .220 Swift that did not give up the ghost until it was burned out halfway up the barrel. One of my .30/06s has no rifling for the first 4 inches north of the lede, and is no longer a tackdriver, but it can still deliver 1.5 inch groups. Generally, your rifle will lose its best accuracy long before it becomes unusable altogether.
well, all of my rifles shoot better than i do. so i am not going to buy one. besides, if i did, i would get so upset about every little scratch, or imperfection, i would probably sell every gun i own. i do like a smooth bore much better than a rough one. and i have used firelapping (David Tubbs Final Finish System) to improve one that looked like it was made with a hammer and chisle (a brand new rifle, which i did not discover until i went to clean it, and it tore cleaning patches to shreds). i am currently haveing my remington 700 rebarreled, and i will be firelapping that when i get it home as well. it certainly makes them much easier to clean. thank you David Tubbs!
As to Clay's comment on the drill damaged bore, I've seen gunsmiths try to save a muzzleloader using that method to remove rust. Their comment was "Its already ruined by neglect, what am I going to do, hurt it?"
To 3Kidsdad: One of the few things of which I am certain is that there is no connection between barrel smoothness and barrel accuracy. Time and again I've seen rough barrels--cut rifled, hammered, and buttoned--that shot extremely well. High-quality barrels are always smooth because their makers insist on it, but I believe that straightness, freedom from stress, and dimensional consistency are the factors that produce accuracy.
Good thing to have at a gun show.
Certainly a good investment for the gun churners of the world.
I could easily see a tool as such paying for itself in short order.
In the late '80s, at an old company, we bought a couple of $10K+ fiberoptic units to study all types of phenomena for automotive applications. Could change the focal distance and heads on those and guide them in all sorts of places because they were flexible. Newer ones use miniture camera heads. Always wanted one of my own. These might be simpler but a whole lot cheaper. I want one - would use it every time I clean or buy a new gun.
Douglas: an enema with Hoppe's No. 9 Powder Solvent will fix you up right away.
P.S. to DP: how about a rant, or at least a comment, on the Feb. 24 NY Times article on greater firearm freedom?
A great peice of technology for sure! Douglas "TMI" LOL.
I own a Hawkeye borescope, and they expensive, I feel it has saved money and less frustration over time.
Great post. I really wonder how that gouge in the land happened too? Care to speculate?
What a wonderful tool to have. How many, though, are going to pass it up due to expense, just to spend much more on a gun with a poor barrel, or replace a gun because they didn't know what was going on in the barrel?
Thanks for the info. I can now blame even more on my poor shooting!! Seriously though, take care of your guns
You shamed me into pulling my rifles out tonight for another cleaning.
P.S. Good for the teacher in Colorado who tackled the deranged shooter. Boo for the laws that keep firearms off campus for qualified individuals.
P.S.S, the tackdriver bore. That must be a new unused rifle or a man very bored.
I have found that I can get a very good look at the first inch of a bore using a jeweller's loupe at the muzzle and a bore light at the breach. I then proceed on the assumption that the remainder of the bore is in the same condition as that first inch at the muzzle (except of course for the first inch at the other end).
What Irks me the most about our local coverage of the Colorado shooting is they use a picture of a handgun as an intro to the story even though a 30-06 rifle was used. And they never mentioned that in the web story, don't know about the newscast.
http://wearecentralpa.com/content/fulltext/?cid=152302
Thanks Mr Petzal - for me, one of the better posts in awhile.
Dave,
What about firelapping? I know I've seen rough bores that would shoot. Is it an "accepted truth" that a smooth bore will shoot better than a rough bore? Should this be a logical next step for a rifle with average accutacy?
I have a friend who builds custom rifles. He has a Hawkeye borescope. He charges me $15 per gun to show me the inside of my barrels. So far I've spent $45 to inspect 3 rifles; much cheaper than my investing in one. Also I've found out that my Browning A-Bolt 7X08 has a okay, but not great barrel; my Ruger No. 1 in 7X57 has a better barrel than the Browning and my Kimber 84M Montana in .260 Rem has a pretty decent barrel but collects copper fouling like a salvage yard scrounger (it's new though so may not be broken in and smoothed out yet). The one thing they all have in common -- they all shoot into an inch when I get 'em clean.
Mr Petzal
There are certainly ways to prematurely terminate the useful life of a barrel, but what about barrel life for a well maintainied one?
Could you post about barrel life in general? I read all manner of diverse opinions on barrel life. For example, how long would one expect barrels on rifles such as .35 Whelen, .30-06, and 7mm Weatherby's to last with average care? Thanks.
Wow this thing is pretty cool, This would be an asset at a Gun Show to push you over the edge to lay down the cash for an iffy gun. I want one!
For the price of one of those, you could just buy a new rifle, or two, or ten. I think I'll stick with the old-fashioned way of doing things. Congrats to those who can afford 'em.
A little pricey, but if you have high dollar guns, a good investment.
That first reply had me rolling on the floor ! I hope petzal likes it too. I didn't watch my colonoscopy, it was good thankfully, and so are my bores.
It's a gun toy. Useful? Economic? I just want it.
Great article Mr. Petzal! It is sure easy to see why the tack driver is easier to clean and shoots better. I would love to see a test of factory barrels for comparison and a test of barrel erosion over time as thousands of shots go down the tube using various cartriges. I would also like to see if some fairly rough rifling will smooth out over time with regular cleaning. I wish we had a consumer reports type testing done on various barrels so we could see what we are buying. I would also like to see what the Tubbs firelapping product does to a good barrel and to a not so good barrel.
I like the tackdriver bore. The ragged ones with radial machine marks should be advertised as such. with warning labels.
When I go to a gun show and look at a rifle with a filthy barrel, I am inclined to think the bore wasn't cleaned in order to hide defects. Not even a Hawkeye can penetrate past all of that crud left in so many gun show firearms!
When I go to a gun show and look at a rifle with a filthy barrel, I am inclined to think the bore wasn't cleaned in order to hide defects. Not even a Hawkeye can penetrate past all of that crud left in so many gun show firearms!
Douglas, I'm so happy your comment was the first, because I may have missed it otherwise, and that would have been a shame. One of the funnier things I've read in awhile.
that last bore was in a=some bad shape=(
I bought a shotgun about 1 year ago and i did not know that it had pitting on the inside of the barrel. i Could not get off 1 accurate shot. I had to by a new barrel. This article is great as a set of guidlines for anybody who is buying a used gun to check over the barrel
A little pricey, but if you have high dollar guns, a good investment.Sesli chat
Sesli sohbet
Photos are amazing. Especially the one showing the rust in the barrel.
bread machines
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