There's a plenty of wind breaking around here on this blog 24/7! LOL!

Nothing beats shooting at extended ranges to verify the point of actual impact as compared to ballistics tables.

Even at 100 yards I have factory loads that print 6" higher than others. You have to get out and shoot. I think bore sighting is a load of crap there is no substitute for firing a rifle.

I even have friends that can take my rifle and shoot three shots together but at least an inch away from where I am shooting with the same rifle. I will never understand that one.

Never shoot beyond 200 if i I can help it ,.
Hell,. never shoot any further than I absolutly have to ,.period.
Closer is better : )
And IMHO not many should.

As out in the distant yonder 400 plus
it gets down right mystical ,..so say a couple guys I know,. one of which is 1000 yard shooter.
and Mr. P just confirmed it .

Hope this one esent prompt the shallow end of the local gene pool to start poping away from 600 yds at whitetails in the near future

@Dr. Ralph- I recall a section of Gunny Hatchcock's biography in which he mentioned that only one other man in his platoon should shoot his rifle, with HIS zero. Not the rifle's zero- his personal zero with that rifle. I guess the shape of your face, the acuity of your eyes and other factors can cause two different people to shoot the same accurate rifle and put the bullets in two different places.

But I'm sure DP knows more about that than I do.

No idea. Maybe the rifling spin was fast enough that the 87 simply resisted being knocked off course better than the less stabilized 115 did. Just a guess.

Surprised you asked that last question though, an old military shooter like you, Dave. We all know that wind will break you. When I got into long range rifle shooting, wind was all ANYBODY worried about. Every gun out there (from M1As to worked over mouse guns) was accurate enough, and every load was good enough. The range, be it 600, 800, or 1000 yards,was a known factor, so nobody wasted a second thinking about that. It was the wind that kept us up nights. At 600 to 1000 yards with irons, there was no guarantee that your bullets were even going to hit paper on a windy day. I know.

Any distance past 200 yards is a black hole to me. I believe my bullets dematerialize to another form of matter never to be seen or heard from again.

I usually map my actual POI at 100, 200, & 300 yards and compare that to the ballistic calculator curves. That also somewhat verifies if the B.C. of the bullets is as advertised or merely a figment of the marketing departments imagination. I doubt that I will ever take a shot at anything other than an inanimate target at 500 or 600 yards, and not many between 300~400 yards. Inside 300 yards, I can hit what I shoot at!

The long rangers on here or anywhere will tell you that they have the wind under control. They can hit vitals first time every time at 600-800 yards plus. They are sure of this. Uh huh.

I have found only one load that shot to a table. Out of 54 loads only a 7MM Rem Mag with 175 Noslers over 4831 was close enough to use the table. Not good odds so shoot'em like Dave says! I know the wind will break me so I get as close as possible before I shoot except on dog towns where you can miss and shoot them when they opo up again.

I allways zero at 200 then retrace and record every 50 meters out to 50 meters beyond my longest shooting distance.. just to actually make sure where MY rifle hits.. with my chosen ammo that ive decided on using depending on the groupings i got at 200 meters...
I dont need ballistics tables or chronographs or any fancy gadgetry at all, just ammo and time at a longdistance outdoor range.. and a calm summer day in witch to enjoy life relax and "print" my rifle, and then i check my measurements at 100 meter intervals on a calm cold cloudless winter day too to make sure i can compensate for the difference... ;)

i am fortunate to live in an area where i can shoot at any distance i like up to six miles on blm land that has been set aside for that purpose. i enjoy shooting (or shooting at) 1 gallon milk jugs at extreme ranges. here in the mountains wind is a constant and will own you. even experienced long range competitors fear the wind. dave is right. even a very light wind combined with mirage will give you fits. good hunting. take sure shots and be successful.

I have no place on my property to shoot beyond 250 yards unless i'm shooting of my back porch. WV has too many hills and trees for 600 yards...so i thought anyways. its nice to be able to say you can shoot that far, but a waste of ammo for me. I only try to stay within a practical range of 200 yards.

To YooperJack amd davidpetzal: Dr. Franklin Mann refers to this motion as "trajectory deflection" in his 1909 classic, "The Bullet's Flight." This motion is caused by the partial rolling and slipping of the bullet due to increased air pressure on its under side.

Yeah, Del. You need lots of spare time on your hands to set up and run a marksmanship program! LOL

DEP:
What bullet were you using and what BC model were you using in you ballistics program. Also, I don't think scopes really track as advertised (-i.e. a 1/4 MOA advertised scope moves the bullet close to 1/4 MOA, but not exactly 1/4 MOA.) I calculate my scopes actual click adjustment and use a form factor to make it fit my drop table because the computer lives in a perfect world where the clicks on a 1/4 MOA scope really are 1/4 MOA. However, we live in the real world and perfection is not possible. So if the program said 16 MOA up, and your scope moves more or less than 1/4 MOA per click, your drop chart will appear to be in accurate, and result in your "WTF" reaction.

I have 2 cardboard, life-sized, whitetail targets. These are also about the size of a mature pronghorn.
Whenever I go shooting, and bring along someone who fancies himself (it's always a dude)a 'sniper', I place one target at 300 yards and the other at 400. In the Wyoming wind, most can put a bullet (2-3 out of 5 shots) "somewhere" on the 300 yard target, usually not the vitals.
Most cannot hit the 400 yard target at all. And this is after sighting in at 100 or 200 and a full session of shooting, BS'ing and "breaking-wind".
"A man has to know his limitations"
Dirty Harry Callahan.

AKX

I suggest if you have the time and proper location, try this exercise:set up smoke pots 50 yards apart out to 300 yards and "watch the wind". We tend to think wind is singular spirit- blowing one way or another, but it is a complex series of currents that will seriously make you rethink long shots for sure.

I noticed that the man said, on the range.
There's not enough of us that can shoot 600 yards, range or not, to evan discuss this.
When you pull the trigger everything else is happenstance.
If your target is 600 yards away, you still have some stalking to do.

I don't understand some of these guys!
"I kilt a 184 inch Booner at 742 yards! I knowed he was at least 182 inches when I seen 'im!"
Gimme a break!
Most folks can't even SEE a deer at some of the ranges mentioned, much less pull off a killing (telling?) shot!
Please note: I did say MOST folks!
And please! Don't count me amongst the CAN's!
The way I've been shooting lately, I'm considering shortening my max to about 150 yards!!

Bubba

An old aviator once told me that Navy pilots break ground and fly into the wind; Air Force usually breaks wind and flys into the ground....

WAM to set up and run a marksmanship program is actually very easy. To bad the two of you don’t have a clue how to do it! LOL! ;)

Back in 95 at the NRA Convention in Phoenix Arizona, the National Guard had a portable shooting simulator. Which David got me thinking this morning about the mystery at 600 yards. It would be great to have a virtual shooting simulator which actually has all the simulation of actual shooting including recoil and the effects of hitting the target from dirt flying to dropping Big Game. I’m wonder Dave and I’m guilty of this too is anticipating the shot. At trigger break to just before the bullet exits the barrel; the shooter can actually start moving changing the point of impact. The best way to train for this is to shoot Air Rifle preferably a Match Rifle for its lowest velocity. Once you mastered the Air Rifle in follow through, you will notice a significant increase in accuracy in Small Bore and especially High Power.

One more thing to think about, 85 vs 115 point of impact at 100 yards. If you sighted the 85’s in at 200 and then shot at 600 and did the same with the 115’s at sighting in at 200 and then shooting at 600, you would have different results. My 03-A3 shoots dime size groups both with 110’s and 150’s, but at 200 yards when zeroed in with 150’s, I’m weigh high with the 110’s which I believe to be the same in your case.

Some rifles will shoot darn near at the same point of aim with anything you put into it while others look like buckshot with different loads with no chance of interchangeability in the field. Lucky for me, my 338 Win Mag with 250 Grain Nosler Partitions shoot dead on at 100 yards and my 225’s dead on at 300 yards a difference of approximately 4 inches at 100 and at 200.

I believe David didn't take into consideration of point of impact of the two bullets at distance of zeroing (200 yards?)in which I believe to be the case here.

Amflyer

The tables are very close and close enogh to put you on paper at the given range. But the real problem is you must have a known point of impact or zero at a known distance and taking account the relationship of the trajectory at that distance. Two different bullets, the chances are will have two complete different points of impact whereas changing the known trajectory of the none zeroed load trajectory will be totally off of known trajectory. In otherwords, you must have a known point of impact at a given/known distance and adjust the known trajectory for that projectile and recalculate.

Other factors that haven't been talked about is barrel whip!

I am ashamed of all of you guys that have trouble shooting at long range, Uncle Elmer Keith hit a mule deer several times at approx 600 yards with a 44 Remington Magnum Sixgun.
Seriously, not many of us have any business shooting game at extra long range, we should stalk closer, wait for a better opportunity or simply watch the deer and pass on the shot.

1517 was a very good year!

I am happy to know I am not the only one breaking wind regularly!

Even on a calm day with 0-2 mph on the wind meter I see considerable variances with the same load, same rifle, same ranges expecially way out there. When the wind is raging as is typical in Wyoming, 20-60 mph no shxt, hitting anything at any range becomes a considerable challenge. Wind alone is why I let lots of deer and elk walk away from my gun. Its nice to shoot from a wind break unless you break wind and are forced to evacuate the shelter.

They both stink! lol

Well actually I spent 6 years of my Army time as NCOIC of a rifle range. Setting up and running a range is not rocket science. My staff trained thousands of young men in basic rifle marksmanship. However, shooting paper targets for score on a known distance range is as boring as reading CC's rants. Guess some folks like to do that and brag about it but it's not for me. ALL my range work is geared toward working up loads, adjusting sights and firing a few practice shots from different positions. Hunting is my thing and anything not geared toward prep for the hunt is not interesting. Do admit that getting a rise out of CC is a hoot.

WAM

You would never be so presumptuous as to think I could pull off a program of that level of excellence?

It's simple, teach the basics in Marksmanship, show them what there equipment is actually capable of doing, raise the bar and watch them do it, it's really that simple. Shooting Military Silhouettes is not the best target for any training!

And Del, sorry man, no wonder Maj Ben McIntyre over looked you

One more thing Del, if you did your job better, perhaps that Team from YOUR POST wouldn't needed individualized training. And by the way, 95 percent of my range hours were spent assisting other Hunters with there equipment and sighting in. that's 95 percent Del of hunting related shooting! Now go play with the other kitties!

I work down at the Pizza Pit
And I still drive an old Hyundai
I still live with my dog and cat
I'm 5 foot 3 and overweight
I'm a reloading fanatic
A mild asthmatic
And I've never shot a grizzly
But there's whole ‘nother me
That you need to see
Go checkout my Blogs!

'Cause online I'm out in Arkansas
I'm 6 foot 5 and I have a big jaw
I drive a big J.B Hunt diesel truck
and I always kill a giant buck
And I love a good glass of wine
It turns kiddies on that I’m mysterious
I tell them there ain't nothing I can't do
'Cause even on a slow day
I could win a shootin' match anyway
and B.S. on two Blogs at one time
I’m so much cooler online
So much cooler online

Apologies to Mr. Paisley... LOL

I know this is going to be poo-pooed by all the "Range" Masters floating here abouts!!
BUT!
My Ballistic Table is set with eight inch paper plates!!
They are plenty cheap, stiff enough to hang in a wind with little effort, AND if I can keep all my shots inside the plate, I can kill deer at that range!!

Bubba

Funny how some folks really like to dish it out, but can't take a little good natured ribbing and then act mad. Maybe it has to do with little man's syndrome or other feelings of inadequacy. It's a hard world out there, get a grip.

Could not resist ,.
Yaw yaw ,. da vind ,. she sure a shootn startn to break now ,..
and gettn yust a little rancid too :)
Almost as bad as da luetfisk ven gramma dont get all da lyeout. UFDAH ; )

As far as paper plates FirstBubba ,. I assume you shoot for the middle (some kind of center reference or bullseye) at say 100 yds. +/-
If you can do that you are trutfully doing better than many and maybe most .

The other truth is most pilgrims who venture forth with the smoke pole of choice or "recomendation" by local and or national Gue rues ( and Ive said this before) can't (shooting off hand) hit the windshild of the vehicle they are diving at 100 yd much less
an 8 inch plate at that distance .
Mostly cuase they stil have the bulk of the 20 rounds they baught 3 years ago.

The third truth is a whitetail (deer) starts looking a little small at 100 yds and down right little at 300.
So if you don't shoot past the point where you can hit the plate ,. your doing more the right thing than many .

My drill is this,.. zero at 50 yds thats right 50 yds.
This assumes cross hairs 2 inches over the bore center for scope heighth. With my guns I can ususaly make a ragged hole at 50yd with 3-4 shots.Even the bargain basement marlin xl7 I bought earlier this year shoots that good..
That done see where they land at 200.
If need be moove the group,. (poi) but its seldom if ever much.
Depending on the caliber its ususally a pubic hair or 4 low but again not much at 200.

If I can get em to stay in 3 -31/2 inches at that distance which is not real tough to do given a decent bench and rest,. I go hunting,. confedent tat out to 200 fif I miss its not the gun ,. its me.
Assuming for this purpose 30-06 using 180 gr,.
Set like I just describesd I can shoot right smack at em from 20 to 200 yds.and its ususally a 12 to 14 inches low at 300.

I havent shot anything over 150 in so long 300 is mostly moot.
However if someting big like a moose IS 300
Put the cross hairs on the top of its back and squezze one off.

8 inches by the "bull pucky" standards I hear a lot about (everywhere) is pretty sloppy shooting.
But talk is cheap .and that said ,. I would go to some length to avoid a man shooting my way who could consistantly land rounds in an 8 inch circle out to 200 yd ; )

Now if one has trouble hitting an 8 inch plate say under 100 yds ,. it is possible and more than likley prudent, that person should strongly contemplate taking up bowling or lawn darts . : )

rand of course bullet weight and at one of I have time.

Dang the Pherdappeln are dropping.

Translation Horse apples 8^D

I like shootn milk jugs WAM,.and water baloons to.
not much chance the last few years,. but that and arisole cans ,and propaine tanks are a gas ?

Shot a 20lb propaine tank once with 50 cal Israeli
anti tank rifle , boom !!! That was almost as good as sex.

Guy I know said he saw,. on you-tube where a rather well constucted blond woman lined up 4 or 5 arisole paint cans ( different colors ) then put a 300 mag slug through all of em. Purpose being to create abstract art ,he said ( and this guy is normal ) the result was what one might call interesting,. and that he had paid an amount for somehting similar that made him wice when he thought about it : )

Intersting thought ,. maybe new office contemporary art.
Think Im gonna do that.
Fun to see what patterns would result from a 223 or 250-3000 vs say a 30-06 and 45-70 .

Oh by the way ,. I get more tickled all the time with my sub $400 Marlin Xl7.

Shooting that this afternoon,. got a better bench rest platform than previously had.
Pretty much locks the gun in place so its not my shooting Im crowing about its the Marlin.

30-06 with standard winchester 180 gr power points.
Shot three groups of three.
First three 50 yds . printed high .,,. touching each other cuting the top line of the ( x) one inch ring .
Perfect,. just what I wanted and just whee I thought they would go.

Next three at 100 yds prnted just over an inch chewing up the x ring , so didnt need to adjust.
Let it cool off good ( light barrel ) and did it again.
That time just under an inch ,. ( I sh!t you not)

Gotta say you couldnt buy that gun from me now for $1000 and I paid $368 bucks including tax up in wi last spring which included the cheap bushnell that came on it yuk yuk

Made my freaking day !!
The coals are almost ready so time for a little of the adult nectar before the fish goes on the grill

Best to all

Had the xlt out today keep

If there is anything better than a rifle that shoots well, it is an inexpensive rifle that shoots well!

I was contemplating which rifles (always carry a back-up) to take elk hunting next month while eating the last of the backstrap steak that the wife marinated and grilled to perfection tonight. That old .35 Whelen sure did a fine job on those backstraps! I think that bad boy will be with me on opening day up on Tater Mesa.

Stupid, yo, very stupid. Your incredibly misspelled post reads like bad fiction from a 1950's era adventure magazine, and I don't doubt that you copied it from such.
Having said that, I would point out that ANY good PH, dealing with a client of unknown marksmanship skills, and any dangerous game, would never put himself out of position to provide back up for a client who might need it. Just one of your obvious mistakes, in your obviously made up tales of daring-do.

sgaredneck

Let me ask you a simple question.

Your hunting Caribou in September and you get a chance in taking a Grizzly. That morning you rolled your ATV and now you have questionable equipment. Standing next to you is a well known person who has good equipment that will guarantee success and all you got to do is do your part. 338 Win Mag that shoot dead on at 100 yards with 250 Grain Nosler Partitions and 225 Grain Hornadys on out to about 275-300.

So sgaredneck would you take a chance with a 300 Win Mag with over the counter 180's that went over the side of the trail or go with a rifle you have shot before and know for a fact will do the job

crm3006
Cut the spelling some slack Sir and even in the best conditions, things can go to snit in a heartbeat even with the best of the best!

yohan, those bigger calibers like the 8mm do have mystical powers unable to be printed on paper!

WAM, DARN YOU BOY, elk steak leftovers and potato cakes. Got to go to Colorado next season!

Got a freezer full of deer meat I'm going to donate tomorrow to Charitable Organization called Life Source.

Arkansas, you can take up to 5 deer this year and it doesn't stop dar ether!

Kansas Kitty
You say tell us that story about the hundreds of huge grizzly bears you refused to shoot?

Never said anything about 100's of Grizz, majority were Black Bear and if your brain cells are somewhat still intact, Black Bears are considered back then as "SMALL GAME" in Alaska due to their abundance and the seasonal limit was 5.

Clay,
I love it when you answer a question with a question. You made the statement, not me. That was 750 YARDS, correct???

http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/trophyroom/recent/single?pnid=10013...

David, it wasn't just wind causing you to hold 4 feet off the target

This Mr CRM shortcrotch ( if your not a woman )
is the one (last) time I will ackowledge yourlow life existance on this Planet.

Clay is right ,. things do change quickly it was pretty thick where we were and all the angles changed dramaitially aftrer the 1st shot ,.
The PH did get off two shots,..
one that didnt connect ( shooting through brush) then my third and then his second.

Like all loud mouthe littel pr! ks
When you sober it will become who sounds of stupid and presumtious.

Unless you dont hunt at all which at this point
I view as a distict possibility,.
YUK YUK

Thats it little man ( person / woaman drag queen? or whatwever )
to me,.. you now cease to exist.

Just declassified why David missed, The Coyotes and Roadrunners on that day fired up their ultimate secret weapon. The ACME High-Tech Laser Ranging Bullet Acquisitioning Flatulence Intensifier or “HTLRBAFI”

Well Clay I think some of the believability problem is in the way its told ,,.ansulary circumstance surrounding a situation not verbalised at tmes can takle away a lot.

Truth is i think you ( prababally WAM) amd a few other
guys on here are in a fairly small league.

That being people who can shoot at longer distances
and based on experiance and practice actually expect to hit things in the next zip code . which to me is somewhere past 300 sneaking up on 400 and beyond..

I only know perosnally one ,. 1000 shooter
and that guy is apparently pretty good .
Dont go to 1000 shoots so only going on what I hear
I also only know a total of three guys maybe four
( me not included) who are effective consistently at 300 plus.

But some of the stuff I hear you say is consistent with the people who I know,. can shoot the BB's off a 3 ft Texan at 400 yds.
So Im goona give it to you.

Partially for this reason ,. My Dad had a winchester 22 pump i used to hunt squirrels. Iron sight,. bead front.
My buddy and I were sitting on a hill over looking a creek,. on the creek some ducks were swimming .
I looked it over and said ya know bet I can hit a duck from here
My buddy said nahh ?? I said ya,. I think so.
So he said OK I'll give you three tries,. if you get one I give you 2 bucks and I'll go get the duck
If you miss you give me a buck.
It was over 200 yds but remember,. down hill.
Ist one was just under ,. the second one had him walking down he hill yuk yuk,. never did it before or since ,. 'but it happens,

Another one is this.
My father was infentry in WW11 in France and Germany.
I asked him once,. what was the longest shot he ever saw made ( not that he made ) ever saw made.
He said 800 yds or a little more ,. no scope with a Garand

Aparnetly Krauts thought they were too far away for effective small arms (sniper) fire.or were unaware of the american prsesence.

We / they US soldiers had dug in over night also.
Under a fence row 800 +/- yds from a woods line.
They thought the Germans were dug in back into the woods a ways.

In the morniong one guy in his outfit said get glsses on that kraut by the big tree,. Im gonna shoot.
It was winter snow on the ground and he had seen the German moving agauinst the white background.
When he stoped he had his position.
My Dad said the guy shot the Kraut fell over and didnt move
There was a flurry of activity after that a few shots back and forth , but no more Germans were viewed,. until Tanks moved up and started pounding the hill side
Later the guy who did the shooting said it just felt right,..
I know that feeling ,. most who shoot do,

Better explanations help tho

So Clay just curious ,. was it 750 down hill ?
or arond a corner,.. yuk yuk
Kidding Clay You say you did it ,. you did it,

WAM, you are absolutely right! Even though some of these tales are told without benefit of the "once upon a time" or "This ain't no $&!^"!", it is their story, and they can tell it as they will. Sure does make it hard to differentiate between the wind breaking, and the printed flatulence being generated, though. Some parties putting out said printed flatulence need to learn to spell, also.

Yohan, The M1 Garand was and still is one fine piece of fine equipment even at 1000 yards.

It’s also interesting how there are those who are not limited by their equipment at hand but how ignorant they are. I can say, Army, what’s so great about it? I’ve came across real solders who didn’t limit themselves by what others thought what they can or cannot do. They went and did it and if they failed they kept on trying!

Tell me Del, WAM, sgaredneck and crm3006 and whoever else, are you guys really and truly that incompetent? It’s obvious you are!

Had a lot of great pleasures of meeting a lot of great shooters including David Tubbs and other NRA National and International Champions. Too bad you couldn’t break away from the crowd of the ignorant ones to really experience the finer things of life.

For to be Sportsmens the four of you claim to be, you’re as pathetic as it gets! No wonder we don’t see Special Guests come up on here on F&S. You guys have to show your ass every time!

And Mr Del, the reason Major Ben McIntyre chose me to run the shooting program, I give a snit about promoting the programming instead being like the four of you standing around a grill drunk or whatever you guys for kicks and running down other people for laughs!

BTW, Wingwiper, I don't make any claims. No brag, just fact. Anytime you want to put up some real cash for an off the range - in the field shooting contest with your magic .338 Win Mag, we might can arrange for someone to hold cash, not bullsnot, in escrow pending the results. Just don't wager more than you can afford to lose little man.

Got curious what is the Oldest living Army Veteran living.

Buckles, Frank Woodruff

DOB: 1 February 1901

United States Army 1st Fort Riley Casual Detachment

Last American veteran. Eligible for burial at Arlington. Joined in 1917. Ambulance driver near Western Front. Held prisoner in World War II as a civilian. Lives in Charles Town, West Virginia.

WAM, Told ya the comments the other day would get the little fella fired up and running his mouth. You know I don't recall seeing any Air Farce guys shooting in the Olympics do you? Seems they are all Army and Marines if memory serves. If there had been a little guy with a big mouth and an M-1 don't you think we would have noticed? Maybe this Clay fellow isn't the shot he claims to be. Maybe Yo is on to something and he's just a figure skater or home decorator from the Bronx.

Could 600yds be be beyond the supersonic limit of those rounds. As bullets break through the sound barrier on deceleration they tend to become unstable.

superbee

If coming out of/slowing below supersonic (1200 fps) would create inaccuracy, 22 rimfire would really be a noticeable cartridge since it drops below 1200fps very quickly.

Answering your question, no it shouldn't become unstable as some people believe.

Hey Yohan, ever tried figure skating with a ATV on a ice covered lake!

WAM, that's pretty creative BRO! +1 for you!

This is the internet, you idiots. All of y'all are as likely to be some loser from Jersey as the rest of us. Your stories could be just as BS as anyone else's. Quit acting like 13 year old girls. All of you involved are now the official Queens of Manhattan that have never killed a fly at any range, as far as I can tell.

Del ,. I can live with Clay,.
So I cant line up against him ,. he and WAM have it going ,. kinda is what it is hope it cools off.
Clay probably works hard and tries hard,.
maybe sometimes,.. tries too hard ??

Its the crm little pl!ck from Texas I dont need and to whom I will from this day never acknowledge again.
Far as Im concerned he went to sh^t and the hogs ate the little mutt.

Gotta say tho ,.
I never saw many ( any? :) airfrce hanger jockys doing the Biathlon : )

Clay,. I have never done any figure skating ,. period.
I would have been severly beaten or killed had the wrong seen that in my old neighborhood.
Played some hocky when young,.. but for dam sure never any ballette on ice wih an ATV. YUK YUK

SHANE......SHANE....COME BACK SHANE!

It is just so much fun to get a rise out of Clay.

And Shane, judging by a lot of your comments on firearms, you are probably a drag queen down on lower Flatbush Avenue!

LMAO

Why do people use this site to express a grudge. If I don't like something someone said I'll give a negative, that's it children.
And I don't care if I get a negative on stuff I say, I think it's interesting to read back and try to understand what they may be disagreeing with me about. I'm really getting tired of this crap.

I see old Clay C. is back up to his old tricks again ranting and bragging on his little exploits. He He.

Rant on dude, it shows your true colors. have not been on for a while, but see that nothing has changed much.

Yo,
I think the brown leaves you speak of are from walnut trees. They are the first to drop and are simply brown in color. Walnut leaves are also very sweet and attract a lot of bugs.

Buck hunter & superbee ( superbee ??:)
Float like a butter fly "staaang lik a bee" ?? ; )

Thanks guys ,. but I know what a walnut tree looks like
Baught 20 acres once just cause it was full of Walnut trees.
Thought I could turn a nice profit ,
aWnt bore you with details but that didnt work out as well as I thought it might yuk yuk
Never get outside what you know ,. someone will always try to eat your lunch YUK YUK
,. broke even tho so guess thats OK

No guys,. these are oaks red and white both in Illinois and WI ,. beats the hell out of me ,..
Went down the road for lunch asked around,. couple guys
said its becaise we had so much rain in uppe rmidwesst.

Hell,. we had so much rain,. then hot weather
Im hearing rumors reports that some corn is 20% moisture which means combines could be in the feild pretty soon thats like christmass on Holloween for goodness sake.

Wierd,.. is all I can say ,.
But thanks again !!

trees dont look u

Jim in Mo,

I am sorry you feel offended. Sometimes comments and emails and the like are typed in haste and the tone can become misunderstood or poorly communicated. Most of us would do well to reread our comments before hitting the SEND button on many occasions.

My comment that obviously pi$$ed you off was intended as a good natured poke, nothing more. My quip about the Zumbo rifle thing was just a follow up after I happened to pickup one of his books night before last, not an "I told you so". So if you want to be PO'd, you're on your own with this one. I shan't address you or your comments again.

WAM

Mr WA Mtnhunter, there is only a couple of individuals here who have been her as long as I can remember I consider of high moral and good character and you Sir happen to be one of them and you seriously let me down. We have a wide range of skills and knowledge on here for which we should be grateful for. Shouldn’t we be acting as Gentlemen rather than a couple of punk kids in High School spitting on everyone who walks by. I consider you as a leader of Men for what you did in the Military, so what’s it going to be Sir and goes for the rest of you and you know who you are! Jim in Mo and the rest of the group, thank you for making this place for what it is. Back to work I go!

As for the BS, guess this is BS also!

http://www.spike.com/video/football-skeet-shoot/3211262

WHO MADE YOU THE JUDGE AND THE KEEPER OF RIGHTFUL PASSAGE!

GROW UP!

How about "altered self hypothesis" and this is a valid medical term by the way ROFLMAO!

By the way, don't stop om my account, I'm finding humor in this. Reminds me of the MRE Beef Stew can I tossed in the middle of a pack of wild dogs at one of our forward locations in Egypt back in May of 81 LOL!

HAD_ ENOGH

BREATH SON! BREATH!

If I was to make a real WAG into why David missed the target by 4 feet, I would guess the Parallex was the causing factor.Years ago I replaced my scope on my 25-06 and my group went from 1/2 to 4 inches at 100 yards. I noticed as I moved my eye up and down, the target to moved as well. I believe now perhaps this is the problem David had that day

Coop,

I was browsing the 6mmbr link you provided and looked at the .308W data page. Looks like RL 15 is a top powder for accuracy and in my books, top velocity too. Has anyone ever used RL 15 with 150 or 165 Hornady BTSP?