


February 12, 2009
Backtracking on Public Water Access?
As reported in the Salt Lake Tribune, and later at Midcurrent.com, a bill introduced in the Utah State Legislature by Rep. Ben Ferry, R-Corinne, and made public yesterday, would effectively quash a Utah Supreme Court ruling in favor of public wading access on the state's rivers and streams. Under the bill, sections of only 14 rivers would be designated open to recreational use by anglers. Everything else would be shut down... and that's a lot of water.
I truly understand the interests of property owners, and I fish private water myself. Part of me can argue on behalf of private ownership and limited access with regard to controlling and protecting resources. But it ultimately seems to me that working to limit access where it now exists is wrong. I don't see how that can possibly benefit the public at large, in Utah... among the outfitters who comprise multi-million dollar tourism industry... or the country as a whole. The winners will be realtors.
The dirty truth is that many of us who live in states where stream access is restricted (like Colorado) are green with envy over states (like Montana) where things are more open. Oh, the fishing is good if you're on the inside of those fences. Sometimes better. But that costs money.
And with more and more of us having less and less to spend, with more businesses depending on people to get out and fish, and more people clinging to what is a relatively affordable pastime... well, I think, if anything, we should be taking down more fences, and not building new ones.
Deeter
Comments (20)
I live in Utah and I am taking time today to write to my legislators and express how horrified I am about restricting access.
One of the great things about this state is the wilderness access, including rivers. I talk to many people who came to live here for that very reason.
I took a look at the bill and it excludes many waters that run through public land, including my favorite little brown trout stream. The 14 waters do not even cover most of the streams that run through public land.
Does this mean that if I am wading a stream on public land, that is not listed, I will be violating law?
This seems like a very backward step for a state that has always helped sportsmen and women get into the field.
I think public remains public, so those streams don't need exemption. The premise is still backwards thinking though. Many would trade the stream access law in Colorado for yours in Utah, as it stands now, in a heartbeat.
Sounds like the United Kingdom of Utah. Seriously any navigable waterway should be open to the public from if you are within the defined river channel. No one should be able to own the river bottom. Action like this could lead fishing down the road that hunting is on now. Everyone with a stream running through there land could not only lease land for hunting but fishing rights as well. Slowly some people seem to have a desire to push both sports to where only the entitled will have access.
Where do I get a copy of this bill -this is BS. This aggression will not stand, man.
UPDATED - here is where you are able to download a copy of the bill.
http://le.utah.gov/~2009/htmdoc/hbillhtm/HB0187.htm
Unfortunately unless the folks in Utah get this struck down, it will become law and then you'll see the politicians in other states, probably California next, make a similar law, then the next thing we as anglers will be denied access to fishing waters across the country.
Does this mean these rivers will no longer receive public funding? Will they still be stocked? What if jetties or dikes need built for erosion or flood control? I say if the respective landowners totally own the rivers they should be getting a bill in the mail for any expense the state will pay for maintaining the river. Otherwise public access is not unreasonable.
the folks in UT should start kicking and screaming and fight ANY proposed legislation to restrict the access that their courts have ruled they have. Living in MT, i can tell you that stream access is the great equalizer for those who utilize the rivers. the gazillionares can own the land and have their stream-side cabins (read mansions) but us peons can still fish the river.
God bless Montana. Why more states don't adopt their enlightened water access laws is beyond me.
I live in Utah. I sent an email to my State Senator concerning this bill and received a reply back from her today. Her reply was that she was going to vote against this bill. Hopefully sportsmen here are taking time to make their feelings heard.
I personally have a cabin in Utah with a spring fed pond that is stocked with rainbows, brooks, browns, and tiger trout. We stock it just enough so that the fish can naturally reproduce and have plenty to eat. We flyfish barbless hooks and always practice catch and release. When Utah passed the law that people could wade in a stream surrounded by public land, it threw us into fits. We had people go from East Canyon River, and follow our outlet stream right onto our land. They would walk up our tiny outlet stream, which can hardly even be considered a body of water at all, duck our fences and NO TRESPASSING signs and gates, and walk 800 yards up to the dam of the pond and fish. We pulled up one day to a jackass with a can of worms, and a 5 gallon bucket full of our beautiful and expensive fish (all dead). He apparently figured that he could get his limit of fish at our expense. He was not even below the high water mark like the law specified. He was standing right on the earthen dam. People just used this law to gain access to our private pond, and then got out of the creek. That is why the law was changed. Too many people were doing things like this, and being inconsiderate of private lands. They wouldn't stay below the high water mark, they used the streams as a means get into private lands, and when they thought no one was watching, they would climb out of the stream. That just goes to show you, the true measure of a man is his actions when no one is looking. Apparently there are not enough men of strong moral fiber in Utah. You would think Utah of all places would have better moral fiber with all of us Mormons. Don't get mad at the legislators, get mad at your fellow sportsmen who have inconsiderate tendencies. I would surely be on the other side of this argument if I had not seen first hand how the law was abused. It sucks when a couple of @$$ holes ruin it for everybody.
Good rant hunt-fish-sleep. I'm not sure of the laws and ramifications of them in Utah, but the laws here states that public waterways are just that. You may float them, fish them, etc. But that's it. If the stream your on passes through private land you have no right to step out of the river/stream to lunch, camp, or anything else. That's private.
As kids find out in hunter ed., Mo. takes landowner rights seriously.
Maybe they should have a Fishing Education course, I've seen to many jerks think they can use my property to access public waters because of convenience.
Well Jim in Mo, that's just the thing, our pond discharge trickle is not a public waterway, there aren't even fish in it. If it were a state owned water way that taxes payed to stock, then I would agree that people have a right to fish it. But seeing as how we dug a ditch for it by hand, and there's not even fish in it, no one has a right to wade into it or pass through our property.
I agree 100%. That's your land and property. If it's public then so be it.
And, I don't want to sound like a a**hole here. But, landowners rights go back to the settling of the west, where landowners had to fight off the cattle-drivers from using their land to graze their cattle.
I fish a lot of private waters by permission from the landowners, I also have land myself and it has fishing access, I don't mind someoneone accessing the water if they come to me and ask for permission, but if they take it upon themselves to come onto my property then I feel I have the right to deny them access.
This situation in Utah sounds like it will upset a lot of people and really hurt access to the waterways.
Here in MT, the law works exactly because of the ethical practices used by the vast majority of river users (Blackfoot tubers aside). It also works because trespassers are prosecuted, or greeted with warning shots, when they abuse the law. At my cabin on the East Fork, I set up picnic tables and put a sign up asking that people pick up litter and such in exchange for allowing access above and beyond the law. My frontage is always left completely clean and natural.
Stream access is just one facet of Montana's science based and populist common sense fisheries policies. One that gets less attention but has been even better for the rivers is the focus on restoration of habitat for clean, clear, cold, and connected waterways, instead of farming and stocking.
Whether or not these common sense laws would work in Colorado or Utah I don't know. Maybe the ethical sportsmen are just outnumbered in some places. Maybe McLean said it best: "The world is full of a$$holes, their numbers greatly increasing the further you get from Missoula, MT".
If the water access rights law is overturned, this will be a huge step in the wrong direction.
Some of us can't afford to pay thousands of dollars to get private access.
I bet Donny Beavers of the Spring Ridge Club sure approves of this law. Heck, he's probably think of moving his operation out to Utah now.......
It makes me sick
If the water access rights law is overturned, this will be a huge step in the wrong direction.
Some of us can't afford to pay thousands of dollars to get private access.
I bet Donny Beavers of the Spring Ridge Club sure approves of this law. Heck, he's probably thinking of moving his operation out to Utah now.......
It makes me sick
Oh yeah, and Mr Hunt fish sleep, I am deeply unsympathetic to your predicament. You have a private spring-fed pond, a lot more than I have. Enjoy what you have, and stop being upset that a lot of people get to fish a lot more water.
Post a Comment
I live in Utah and I am taking time today to write to my legislators and express how horrified I am about restricting access.
One of the great things about this state is the wilderness access, including rivers. I talk to many people who came to live here for that very reason.
I took a look at the bill and it excludes many waters that run through public land, including my favorite little brown trout stream. The 14 waters do not even cover most of the streams that run through public land.
Does this mean that if I am wading a stream on public land, that is not listed, I will be violating law?
This seems like a very backward step for a state that has always helped sportsmen and women get into the field.
Sounds like the United Kingdom of Utah. Seriously any navigable waterway should be open to the public from if you are within the defined river channel. No one should be able to own the river bottom. Action like this could lead fishing down the road that hunting is on now. Everyone with a stream running through there land could not only lease land for hunting but fishing rights as well. Slowly some people seem to have a desire to push both sports to where only the entitled will have access.
Unfortunately unless the folks in Utah get this struck down, it will become law and then you'll see the politicians in other states, probably California next, make a similar law, then the next thing we as anglers will be denied access to fishing waters across the country.
I personally have a cabin in Utah with a spring fed pond that is stocked with rainbows, brooks, browns, and tiger trout. We stock it just enough so that the fish can naturally reproduce and have plenty to eat. We flyfish barbless hooks and always practice catch and release. When Utah passed the law that people could wade in a stream surrounded by public land, it threw us into fits. We had people go from East Canyon River, and follow our outlet stream right onto our land. They would walk up our tiny outlet stream, which can hardly even be considered a body of water at all, duck our fences and NO TRESPASSING signs and gates, and walk 800 yards up to the dam of the pond and fish. We pulled up one day to a jackass with a can of worms, and a 5 gallon bucket full of our beautiful and expensive fish (all dead). He apparently figured that he could get his limit of fish at our expense. He was not even below the high water mark like the law specified. He was standing right on the earthen dam. People just used this law to gain access to our private pond, and then got out of the creek. That is why the law was changed. Too many people were doing things like this, and being inconsiderate of private lands. They wouldn't stay below the high water mark, they used the streams as a means get into private lands, and when they thought no one was watching, they would climb out of the stream. That just goes to show you, the true measure of a man is his actions when no one is looking. Apparently there are not enough men of strong moral fiber in Utah. You would think Utah of all places would have better moral fiber with all of us Mormons. Don't get mad at the legislators, get mad at your fellow sportsmen who have inconsiderate tendencies. I would surely be on the other side of this argument if I had not seen first hand how the law was abused. It sucks when a couple of @$$ holes ruin it for everybody.
Well Jim in Mo, that's just the thing, our pond discharge trickle is not a public waterway, there aren't even fish in it. If it were a state owned water way that taxes payed to stock, then I would agree that people have a right to fish it. But seeing as how we dug a ditch for it by hand, and there's not even fish in it, no one has a right to wade into it or pass through our property.
I think public remains public, so those streams don't need exemption. The premise is still backwards thinking though. Many would trade the stream access law in Colorado for yours in Utah, as it stands now, in a heartbeat.
Where do I get a copy of this bill -this is BS. This aggression will not stand, man.
UPDATED - here is where you are able to download a copy of the bill.
http://le.utah.gov/~2009/htmdoc/hbillhtm/HB0187.htm
Does this mean these rivers will no longer receive public funding? Will they still be stocked? What if jetties or dikes need built for erosion or flood control? I say if the respective landowners totally own the rivers they should be getting a bill in the mail for any expense the state will pay for maintaining the river. Otherwise public access is not unreasonable.
the folks in UT should start kicking and screaming and fight ANY proposed legislation to restrict the access that their courts have ruled they have. Living in MT, i can tell you that stream access is the great equalizer for those who utilize the rivers. the gazillionares can own the land and have their stream-side cabins (read mansions) but us peons can still fish the river.
God bless Montana. Why more states don't adopt their enlightened water access laws is beyond me.
I live in Utah. I sent an email to my State Senator concerning this bill and received a reply back from her today. Her reply was that she was going to vote against this bill. Hopefully sportsmen here are taking time to make their feelings heard.
Good rant hunt-fish-sleep. I'm not sure of the laws and ramifications of them in Utah, but the laws here states that public waterways are just that. You may float them, fish them, etc. But that's it. If the stream your on passes through private land you have no right to step out of the river/stream to lunch, camp, or anything else. That's private.
As kids find out in hunter ed., Mo. takes landowner rights seriously.
Maybe they should have a Fishing Education course, I've seen to many jerks think they can use my property to access public waters because of convenience.
I agree 100%. That's your land and property. If it's public then so be it.
And, I don't want to sound like a a**hole here. But, landowners rights go back to the settling of the west, where landowners had to fight off the cattle-drivers from using their land to graze their cattle.
I fish a lot of private waters by permission from the landowners, I also have land myself and it has fishing access, I don't mind someoneone accessing the water if they come to me and ask for permission, but if they take it upon themselves to come onto my property then I feel I have the right to deny them access.
This situation in Utah sounds like it will upset a lot of people and really hurt access to the waterways.
Here in MT, the law works exactly because of the ethical practices used by the vast majority of river users (Blackfoot tubers aside). It also works because trespassers are prosecuted, or greeted with warning shots, when they abuse the law. At my cabin on the East Fork, I set up picnic tables and put a sign up asking that people pick up litter and such in exchange for allowing access above and beyond the law. My frontage is always left completely clean and natural.
Stream access is just one facet of Montana's science based and populist common sense fisheries policies. One that gets less attention but has been even better for the rivers is the focus on restoration of habitat for clean, clear, cold, and connected waterways, instead of farming and stocking.
Whether or not these common sense laws would work in Colorado or Utah I don't know. Maybe the ethical sportsmen are just outnumbered in some places. Maybe McLean said it best: "The world is full of a$$holes, their numbers greatly increasing the further you get from Missoula, MT".
If the water access rights law is overturned, this will be a huge step in the wrong direction.
Some of us can't afford to pay thousands of dollars to get private access.
I bet Donny Beavers of the Spring Ridge Club sure approves of this law. Heck, he's probably think of moving his operation out to Utah now.......
It makes me sick
If the water access rights law is overturned, this will be a huge step in the wrong direction.
Some of us can't afford to pay thousands of dollars to get private access.
I bet Donny Beavers of the Spring Ridge Club sure approves of this law. Heck, he's probably thinking of moving his operation out to Utah now.......
It makes me sick
Oh yeah, and Mr Hunt fish sleep, I am deeply unsympathetic to your predicament. You have a private spring-fed pond, a lot more than I have. Enjoy what you have, and stop being upset that a lot of people get to fish a lot more water.
Post a Comment