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On New Deer Regs in New York: We Have to Learn to Share

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June 22, 2011

On New Deer Regs in New York: We Have to Learn to Share

By Scott Bestul

New York hunters have until July 28 to comment on a proposed deer management plan that is (big surprise) stirring up some controversy. According to a recent story in the Wall Street Journal three of the lightning rod proposals by the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) appear to be the creation of an early youth hunting season, expanded hunting days for bowhunters in the southern zone, and putting additional zones under Antler Point Restrictions (APRs).

Having recently lived through contentious debates over APR’s in my home state of Minnesota, I recognize the complexity of this issue and will reserve comment. That’s a different blog post for another day.

But any controversy over the other two issues is lost on me. Let’s start with the youth season. New York is no different than many other states; its hunting population is aging, and young-hunter recruitment has been a problem. So the DEC proposes an early-October weekend for 14-16 year olds to have an early and exclusive shot at whitetails, before the cold weather and circus atmosphere of the general firearms opener. This type of season has been tried with great success in many states and is a proven winner. Who can argue with that? I’ll tell you who: short-sighted hunters who won’t tolerate anyone—even a kid trying to kill his first deer—getting first crack at “their” buck.

The opposition to the earlier bowhunting start isn’t a whole lot different. New York has one of the shortest archery-exclusive seasons around; about a month of hunting before the general firearms opener. But according to the source listed in the WSJ story, giving bowhunters two extra weeks “will only lessen the opportunity for success for those who hunt during the regular gun season.” Clearly this man has not checked in to the success rates or harvest stats for bowhunting lately.

Folks, we are going to have to learn to share. If a state’s whitetail resource can handle some additional harvest—and clearly the New York DEC feels theirs can—we have got to jump on every chance to create additional opportunity.

Comments (36)

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from Nebraskahunter18 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

All three sound like good ideas, but for the youth season why is it only open to 14-16 year olds? Open it up to all youth.

+4 Good Comment? | | Report
from Jack Hom wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Well I'm 16 and I live in Queens, NY. I think that all of the proposed regulations and changes can only benefit the sport. How can trying to get more people involved in hunting hurt a singular persons chances and bagging a big whitetail. The way I see it, more hunters = more money put into licenses = more money put into conservation = better public land management for bigger bucks. And its hard enough being a teen in the big apple and trying to get into hunting; a youth season can only help get more kids into it. As for the APR's, it again gives hunters better chances at bigger bucks later on down the road. If one is hunting for sustenance, then its one thing, but a responsible hunter should be trying to harvest the most mature animal possible, thus helping to manage the population. If we all shot two-year-olds, there would not be any sustainable deer population to hunt! And with the difficulty that archery carries, an extra two weeks isn't going to increase the harvest total by much. But again if there's anything I've learned spending my whole life in NY, its that some people just aren't intelligent enough to think things over before they put their two cents in.

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from jjas wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I hear a lot of lip service about how youth are the future of hunting and how we should get our kids in the woods as long as they (the kids) are shooting does. Let a kid shoot a buck and all h*ll breaks loose.

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from Scott Alexander wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Well, considering that we put such a premium on horns that it's no wonder that we're seeing the problems that we're seeing.

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from NHshtr wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Sounds to me as though it's a small but vocal minority opposed to these two proposals.

No reason for opponents to worry if they would only look around and see that these changes work well in the other states with them.

Looking forward to the APR discussion!!!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from stewy wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

the antler restriction should be a no go theres more people here in NY that care more about just getting a dear than those big antlers. and the deer population cant support all this there is no where near as many as there use to be only seeing a handful of deer last year and hunting everyday possible on a very big farm. there sure isnt as many deer as they say there are that is for sure. just like theres no such thing as a mountain lion around here thats bull the dec let them go in NY.

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from Beekeeper wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

10 or so years ago GA expanded the Archery Season by one week and added a one week muzzleloader season to open the week before rifle season. One would have thought the very pillars of heaven would shake loose and fall upon us. Both Archery folks and Gun folks complained. It seems the Archey folks wanted the muzzleloader week to themselves and the gun folks cried foul as well. What happend? Lots of folks bought muzzleloaders and went hunting. End of story.

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from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I think that someone hit the nail on the head. Heaven forbid if a young hunter was to kill a monster buck. After all the seasoned hunters feel like the big bucks belong to them and killing a big buck means everything. The only problem I see is the age should be at least 10 years to 17 years for the youth hunt.

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from shane wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Why does every good management idea get wailed upon by a large group of hunters? They may be hunters, but they aren't real sportsmen. They are concerned for themselves and not for other hunters or the future of hunting, and it shines through when they whine about these new proposals.

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from shane wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Not nearly as many deer in NY, huh? At least the Wisconsin whiners have a real scapegoat - wolves and increased tags. Really I think the people that have these complaints are the loud and smelly ones. There are a ton of deer in most of NY, and the areas that don't have a whole lot never did in the first place.

New Yorkers have always claimed that the DEC releases all sorts of scary predators. Mountain lions, coyotes, rattlesnakes, abbagoochies, etc. All BS.

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from Walt Smith wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

The excuse I hear the most is the youth hunts teach the kids that hunting is easy and when they hunt during the regular season with everyone else they don't do so well so they lose intrest in the sport. I say thats a bunch of B.S. I can't tell you how many full grown hunters I've heard belly aching about kids shooting big bucks before they can!

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from PigHunter wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I'm all for special youth hunts / days. We need to encourage young hunters.

However, I'm against special archery and muzzleloader seasons. The ONLY reason I've got a muzzleloader and bow is to maximize my hunting days. I despise having to use anything other than a centerfire to take game but I won't stay home because of it.

I've got no problem with people choosing primative weapons too hunt with but just don't legislate protected seasons based on the technology used. Come on, centerfire technology is from the 1800's.

-1 Good Comment? | | Report
from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

So, pighunter you would be happy with a 2 week only season that
all weapons were used or I suppose you would like a 2-3 month long centerfire season.I am just glad the centerfires are not even allowed in Iowa other than a special doe season on the bottom tier of countys. November rifle seasons are what ruin the quality of bucks in states that have it.

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from TM wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

As a NY hunter, I oppose the expansion of the archery season and an early October gun season for children. Deer hunters ignore the fact that there are other sportsmen who enjoy the woods during the fall.

Mr. Bestul, if New York has "one of the shortest archery-exclusive seasons around," I propose that you lobby for a special December to January archery season. Also, I suspect that the vast majority of archery hunters and primative firearms hunters do so to get "first crack at 'their' buck" rather than for the love of the bow. Flip the gun season and the archery seasons and watch bow sales fall. So, don't get too righteous about gun hunters.

The real loser in all of these proposals -- is the small game hunter. Not that long ago, New York used to ban deer hunting on Sundays. Frankly, it is a little scary to be in the grouse woods during deer season. No one cares. To most people around here "hunting" means "deer hunting" and the regulations are written in a way that it negatively impacts other sportsmen.

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from Whackdaddy wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

More opportunities for everyone is great if the herd can handle it. If you're a jealous, control-freak type, buy your own land and post it. If you can't afford that, humbly accept it as your lot in life and get over yourself.

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from PigHunter wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Hank111, I'm for extending the firearms season and totally doing away with special archery and muzzleloader seasons. Like me, I bet many current archery and muzzleloader hunters would never touch those weapons again if not induced to do so by special seasons. I have a friend that chooses to always hunt with a longbow even during centerfire season. I think he should continue to have the right to hunt that way and I wouldn't want to have restrictions placed on him. I'm just asking for the same but in the other way around.

Deer herd management can be accomplished with game tag limits and Antler Point Restrictions no matter how long the season lasts.

TM does make a good point about small game hunting which is also a gateway for beginning hunters. I think there should be small game seasons outside of deer season. That way small game hunters are not required to wear hunter's orange for safety and can hunt thick cover without the fear of some deer hunter mistaking them for game.

I hunt in AL and not in NY but the deer season here is split in a similar fashion.

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from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Pighunter- I believe you are totally wrong on that one.I have dealt with hundreds of serious bowhunters over the years and guarantee you if given the choice nearly all of them would chose their bow as the weapon of choice for hunting, hands down, includeing me.Any other bowhunters here, what would be your choice?

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from upperdel wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Mr Bestul,
I agree that we must learn to share as hunters! Selfishness is not good in any part of our lives.

Any chance that I and my grandson could hunt on your hunting properties this year. We are safe and responsible NY hunters with no access to good deer hunting property. I hunt public lands currently but am having problems with hunter pressure and a lack of deer sightings and sign.

I'm a little concerned that if a young hunter sits in the woods for 2 or 3 days and doesn't see any deer this could turn him off to the sport for a lifetime!

Probably if NY State had a habitat improvement plan for its pubic forests and did a little less to protect its booming predator populations I wouldn't find it necessary to ask you for your generosity.

-2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

upperdel- come on down to Iowa and I will set your grandson up.Our public land is way better than most private land in states that have the november/rut rifle season, because of the december,shotgun only, season structure. Another great thing about Iowas seasons, is there is no minimum age for the september youth season.My sons were able to take their first deer when they were 6.States that dont allow youths to hunt untill 12 or 14 years old have allready missed the best chance to get them interested in hunting. By the time they are 12-14 between school activities, sports and video games kids that age have either lost the time or desire to be out hunting.For both my sons from 6-11 years old they were ready and could not wait to go.During their teenage and early 20s years they may be too busy to hunt much but after that they will always have the desire and skills to hunt.

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from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

In WV there is no min age restriction for hunting. My grandson killed his first deer when he was 5 years old. Some young people are mature enough to do so at that age and some are not. He got his first deer with a bow when he was 9. He is 11 now and counting bucks, does , and his archery kill he has killed 7 deer. He is hooked big time and will continue to be a hunter. We did a study and found out that if a young person does not hunt by the time he or she is 18 they will probably never hunt. The only exception is a young lady that when she gets married her husband may get her interested in hunting. Out youth deer season only takes 2 days from the small game hunter. That is a small price to pay to get our young people interested in deer hunting. We also have an early 1 day youth spring gobbler season 1 week before the regular season and a 1 day youth squirrel season 1 week before the regular small game season. These days take nothing from the regular small game hunter. In WV our 1 week muzzleloader season is after the 2 week buck season and the 1 week anterless season. It takes nothing from the regular buck season. Pighunter, most people here in WV use a muzzleloader because it gives them a chance to kill two more deer. There are a few dedicated blackpowder hunters but they usually carry their blackpowder guns during regular buck season.

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from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Sarge01- looks like your seasons are setup great too. Could you imagine all the great times you would have missed if he was not allowed to hunt untill he was 12-14
years old. For those who say the kids get spoiled with their own season and want to quit when they have the competition of the regular seasons, in Iowa if they dont fill their youth tag with a bow,mloader or shotgun the tag is still good thru the rest of the regular seasons. On top of that a youth if they wanted could also get an either sex bow and an either sex mloader/shotgun tag for the regular seasons.Antlerless tags, they can get more than they could ever shoot if they wanted too.Kids are busy in tha fall during school, they need to be able to go whenever they can.

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from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Sarge01- looks like your seasons are setup great too. Could you imagine all the great times you would have missed if he was not allowed to hunt untill he was 12-14
years old. For those who say the kids get spoiled with their own season and want to quit when they have the competition of the regular seasons, in Iowa if they dont fill their youth tag with a bow,mloader or shotgun the tag is still good thru the rest of the regular seasons. On top of that a youth if they wanted could also get an either sex bow and an either sex mloader/shotgun tag for the regular seasons.Antlerless tags, they can get more than they could ever shoot if they wanted too.Kids are busy in tha fall during school, they need to be able to go whenever they can.

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from dtbc333 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

sarge01..."We did a study and found out that if a young person does not hunt by the time he or she is 18 they will probably never hunt."...Who is we? What did this study consist of? I know many people who didn't get into hunting until after they were 18, and not one of them is a recently married young lady.

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from shane wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I'll say this again. Tell your state to do what OH is doing. We have more deer than we can keep up with (record harvests followed by record populations), huge bucks (you will forget that after you suggest this to your wildlife people and legislators), and plenty of time for everyone to get their deer.

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from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

When I say "WE" I mean the International Hunter Education Association. The study was conducted over a period of 20 years. I know there are exceptions but with the other recreational opportunities today and the one parent households the odds are against the kids.

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from Carl Huber wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Having lived in NY and having relatives here for the last 100. I have to say fat chance. This is not to say I am against any hunter but I would say some of the stuff I have seen in my 60 odd years are not to be believed. My uncle owned a dairy farm and some "hunter" thought because he had doe permit it was alright to shoot one of his calves. As far as bow and muzzleloaders go. I would have to say some hunters need all the help they can get. I personally saw [2 different years] one deer with an arrow in it's rump and another with it's jaw shot away. My cousin dispatched both and called the DEC. Now I know I'll get a couple of minuses for this post; But the 3 hunters [if they had any respect for the sport] should have carried a picture of a deer and a machine gun. On the other side of the coin NY has 5x's the amount of deer than when Columbus got here. So they do have to be thinned out. All this was do to the lack of predators and cultivated land. Incidentally the guy that shot the calf lost his rifle and paid my uncle $1500 in the early 60's. He was only caught because he tagged the calf and was stopped by a Trooper on the road.

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from Carl Huber wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I hope I made my point. But anyone that carries a gun for a living [police-military] has to demonstrate proficiency with said firearm. I think if your going to field a hunter he should demonstrate with a bow or muzzleloader and be able to pick the deer out of the herd of cows. As far as youngsters go insurance companies keep the records. That's why my premium went up the month my boys got their drivers licence

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from PigHunter wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Here's an interesting survey result from South Carolina.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/2010DeerHarvestReport.html
"Although rifles are used by approximately 90 percent of hunters, nearly 80 percent of hunters use multiple weapons during the course of the deer season... a majority (76.4%) of deer hunters prefer rifles... Bows (12.0%) are the second most preferred weapon"

If you look at table 11 of the survey you will see that 25% used bow & arrow, 17.2% used muzzleloaders and 4.7% used crossbows. However, table 12 shows only 13% actually prefer bow & arrow, 1.7% muzzleloaders and 0.9% prefer crossbows.

Therefore, my earlier supposition is correct. Given the choice, 'many current archery and muzzleloader hunters would never touch those weapons again if not induced to do so by special seasons.'

So, are the state wildlife laws artificially propping up the archery and muzzleloader industries? You bet!

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from PigHunter wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Here's the 2010 New York Deer Hunting Survey.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/whitetail-365/2011/06/new-deer-regs-...

"Despite the resistance to many changes to big game regulations explored in this study, hunters expressed support for two kinds of new opportunities. A majority of hunters – regardless of whether they currently hunt with a bow – support legalization of crossbows and their use during any season when bows currently can be used (e.g., archery, regular firearms seasons). About 40% of hunters “probably” or “definitely” would use a crossbow if they were legal. Strong support also exists for the idea of creating a new firearms hunt for youth deer hunters."

"Create a new season for flintlock, sidelock, and matchlock muzzleloaders (no scopes allowed) (20% good idea, 59% bad idea). Further, 70% of current muzzleloader hunters would be “not likely” or only “slightly likely” to participate in such a new season."

(It seems to me most hunters do not want to take a backwards step in technology when hunting deer. ~PH)

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from jbird wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I think a "youth" season should be for youths, not just teenagers. My daughter shot her first deer at 10 and her first turkey. My son got both his first deer and turkey at 9. Parents should be the ones to decide when a child is old enough to hunt, not States. Thankfully I live in MO, where this is possible. I agree with alot of the above posts about the importance of getting kids in the woods as early as possible. My kids were going with me when they were 5 and 3, not to hunt, just to be with Dad while he hunted. Yeah, I probably saw less game, but I wouldn't change it for the world.

As previously stated, bow success rates are very low, so "gun" hunters shouldn't get their panties in such a wad over an extended season for them. Yes, I enjoy rifle hunting more than bow or muzzleloader, but I do all 3 to increase my days in the woods and my meat in the freezer.

I believe the only thing Iowa's "shotgun only" law accomplishes is depriving Iowans of the joy of a well sighted rifle. The accuracy and range of shotguns has come so far since that silly law was put in place, that it makes the law, well, silly.

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from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Pighunter- What you see in those surveys are the weekend warriors and hunters that just want to kill a deer in the high pressure states surveyed which probably is the majority. If you looked at the same survey in the midwest it would be totally different. With more opportunity and less pressure people here get alot more
satisfaction killing a mature buck with a bow or mloader.
To me and almost everyone I know it is not nearly the same to snipe a buck at 200+ yards with a rifle as fooling and tagging a mature buck at close range.I guess liveing in a high pressure nov. rifle state makes people that way out of desperation to get a deer.Thats why all the non-residents from the eastern states are all standing in line to bowhunt/mload Iowa.

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from Neslie wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

The number of days to hunt deer in New Jersey either with bow, primitive firearm or shotgun expands from September to February if you care to take advantage of the regular and permit seasons. As a small game hunter, the opportunity to safely trek through the brush and field with my Brittany has become limited, although the pheasant season extends into February.

As far as youth-only seasons before the regular season, my neighbor took his 14 year old out on such a hunt a few years ago and the boy shot a 4 pointer after being in his stand for only 20 minutes. I think his appreciation for what happened was jaded...it was too easy. He has not hunted since.

I started hunting at age 14 without any special season or attention. It was my father who instilled the desire in me to go in the field for game. Dads, step up to the plate.

Next thing you know they will be putting a pile of food below the tree stand to lure the deer in.

Please refer to Good Hill Hunting, 43rd episode of King of the Hill.

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from ADKHunter wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

im 15 i remember when i was 8 and traping with my dad and thinking god i have to wait until im 16 then they lower the age i thought thats a godsend then the possiblity of a longer season great and antler regs. better this mean the deer can get bigger and learn a little bet from mature rather than be 1 1/2 yearsold out in the field and BOOM little bucks laying there with no chance to become "your dream buck"

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from 2Bsoon wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

As a NYS landowner, my only wish would be that all "new" rules would be put on the ending date of the season and not the beginning. Want a special season for younger hunters, great, just push back the opening/closing date for the others. I enjoy my woods I just hate ruining a hunt for someone just because I and my dog want to walk down a deer trail on my own land.

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from nchunt101 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

i am all for states having primitive/bow seasons on public land to give those who want to use those weapons a better chance. I do however feel that on private/leased land the land owner/lesse should be able to hunt with whatever method he/she chooses. Quality deer come from managment not from the lack of a november rifle season.

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from rikross wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

I've hunted deer in New York for over 40 years on both public and private lands. The DEC's Deer Management permit system has decimated deer populations on public lands and has had a predictably lesser effect on deer populations on private lands due to lack of hunter access. I'm not opposed to extending hunting opportunities for bowhunters and kids but antler restrictions represent an over regulation of our sport. Antler restrictions would likely result in more does being taken, at least initially, on public lands. I'm not sure those over regulated herds could stand the additional pressure.

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from Nebraskahunter18 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

All three sound like good ideas, but for the youth season why is it only open to 14-16 year olds? Open it up to all youth.

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from Scott Alexander wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Well, considering that we put such a premium on horns that it's no wonder that we're seeing the problems that we're seeing.

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from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Pighunter- I believe you are totally wrong on that one.I have dealt with hundreds of serious bowhunters over the years and guarantee you if given the choice nearly all of them would chose their bow as the weapon of choice for hunting, hands down, includeing me.Any other bowhunters here, what would be your choice?

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from Jack Hom wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Well I'm 16 and I live in Queens, NY. I think that all of the proposed regulations and changes can only benefit the sport. How can trying to get more people involved in hunting hurt a singular persons chances and bagging a big whitetail. The way I see it, more hunters = more money put into licenses = more money put into conservation = better public land management for bigger bucks. And its hard enough being a teen in the big apple and trying to get into hunting; a youth season can only help get more kids into it. As for the APR's, it again gives hunters better chances at bigger bucks later on down the road. If one is hunting for sustenance, then its one thing, but a responsible hunter should be trying to harvest the most mature animal possible, thus helping to manage the population. If we all shot two-year-olds, there would not be any sustainable deer population to hunt! And with the difficulty that archery carries, an extra two weeks isn't going to increase the harvest total by much. But again if there's anything I've learned spending my whole life in NY, its that some people just aren't intelligent enough to think things over before they put their two cents in.

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from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I think that someone hit the nail on the head. Heaven forbid if a young hunter was to kill a monster buck. After all the seasoned hunters feel like the big bucks belong to them and killing a big buck means everything. The only problem I see is the age should be at least 10 years to 17 years for the youth hunt.

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from shane wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Why does every good management idea get wailed upon by a large group of hunters? They may be hunters, but they aren't real sportsmen. They are concerned for themselves and not for other hunters or the future of hunting, and it shines through when they whine about these new proposals.

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from jjas wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I hear a lot of lip service about how youth are the future of hunting and how we should get our kids in the woods as long as they (the kids) are shooting does. Let a kid shoot a buck and all h*ll breaks loose.

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from NHshtr wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Sounds to me as though it's a small but vocal minority opposed to these two proposals.

No reason for opponents to worry if they would only look around and see that these changes work well in the other states with them.

Looking forward to the APR discussion!!!

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Beekeeper wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

10 or so years ago GA expanded the Archery Season by one week and added a one week muzzleloader season to open the week before rifle season. One would have thought the very pillars of heaven would shake loose and fall upon us. Both Archery folks and Gun folks complained. It seems the Archey folks wanted the muzzleloader week to themselves and the gun folks cried foul as well. What happend? Lots of folks bought muzzleloaders and went hunting. End of story.

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from shane wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Not nearly as many deer in NY, huh? At least the Wisconsin whiners have a real scapegoat - wolves and increased tags. Really I think the people that have these complaints are the loud and smelly ones. There are a ton of deer in most of NY, and the areas that don't have a whole lot never did in the first place.

New Yorkers have always claimed that the DEC releases all sorts of scary predators. Mountain lions, coyotes, rattlesnakes, abbagoochies, etc. All BS.

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from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

So, pighunter you would be happy with a 2 week only season that
all weapons were used or I suppose you would like a 2-3 month long centerfire season.I am just glad the centerfires are not even allowed in Iowa other than a special doe season on the bottom tier of countys. November rifle seasons are what ruin the quality of bucks in states that have it.

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from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

In WV there is no min age restriction for hunting. My grandson killed his first deer when he was 5 years old. Some young people are mature enough to do so at that age and some are not. He got his first deer with a bow when he was 9. He is 11 now and counting bucks, does , and his archery kill he has killed 7 deer. He is hooked big time and will continue to be a hunter. We did a study and found out that if a young person does not hunt by the time he or she is 18 they will probably never hunt. The only exception is a young lady that when she gets married her husband may get her interested in hunting. Out youth deer season only takes 2 days from the small game hunter. That is a small price to pay to get our young people interested in deer hunting. We also have an early 1 day youth spring gobbler season 1 week before the regular season and a 1 day youth squirrel season 1 week before the regular small game season. These days take nothing from the regular small game hunter. In WV our 1 week muzzleloader season is after the 2 week buck season and the 1 week anterless season. It takes nothing from the regular buck season. Pighunter, most people here in WV use a muzzleloader because it gives them a chance to kill two more deer. There are a few dedicated blackpowder hunters but they usually carry their blackpowder guns during regular buck season.

+2 Good Comment? | | Report
from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Sarge01- looks like your seasons are setup great too. Could you imagine all the great times you would have missed if he was not allowed to hunt untill he was 12-14
years old. For those who say the kids get spoiled with their own season and want to quit when they have the competition of the regular seasons, in Iowa if they dont fill their youth tag with a bow,mloader or shotgun the tag is still good thru the rest of the regular seasons. On top of that a youth if they wanted could also get an either sex bow and an either sex mloader/shotgun tag for the regular seasons.Antlerless tags, they can get more than they could ever shoot if they wanted too.Kids are busy in tha fall during school, they need to be able to go whenever they can.

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from Carl Huber wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Having lived in NY and having relatives here for the last 100. I have to say fat chance. This is not to say I am against any hunter but I would say some of the stuff I have seen in my 60 odd years are not to be believed. My uncle owned a dairy farm and some "hunter" thought because he had doe permit it was alright to shoot one of his calves. As far as bow and muzzleloaders go. I would have to say some hunters need all the help they can get. I personally saw [2 different years] one deer with an arrow in it's rump and another with it's jaw shot away. My cousin dispatched both and called the DEC. Now I know I'll get a couple of minuses for this post; But the 3 hunters [if they had any respect for the sport] should have carried a picture of a deer and a machine gun. On the other side of the coin NY has 5x's the amount of deer than when Columbus got here. So they do have to be thinned out. All this was do to the lack of predators and cultivated land. Incidentally the guy that shot the calf lost his rifle and paid my uncle $1500 in the early 60's. He was only caught because he tagged the calf and was stopped by a Trooper on the road.

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from Walt Smith wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

The excuse I hear the most is the youth hunts teach the kids that hunting is easy and when they hunt during the regular season with everyone else they don't do so well so they lose intrest in the sport. I say thats a bunch of B.S. I can't tell you how many full grown hunters I've heard belly aching about kids shooting big bucks before they can!

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from Whackdaddy wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

More opportunities for everyone is great if the herd can handle it. If you're a jealous, control-freak type, buy your own land and post it. If you can't afford that, humbly accept it as your lot in life and get over yourself.

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from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

upperdel- come on down to Iowa and I will set your grandson up.Our public land is way better than most private land in states that have the november/rut rifle season, because of the december,shotgun only, season structure. Another great thing about Iowas seasons, is there is no minimum age for the september youth season.My sons were able to take their first deer when they were 6.States that dont allow youths to hunt untill 12 or 14 years old have allready missed the best chance to get them interested in hunting. By the time they are 12-14 between school activities, sports and video games kids that age have either lost the time or desire to be out hunting.For both my sons from 6-11 years old they were ready and could not wait to go.During their teenage and early 20s years they may be too busy to hunt much but after that they will always have the desire and skills to hunt.

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from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Sarge01- looks like your seasons are setup great too. Could you imagine all the great times you would have missed if he was not allowed to hunt untill he was 12-14
years old. For those who say the kids get spoiled with their own season and want to quit when they have the competition of the regular seasons, in Iowa if they dont fill their youth tag with a bow,mloader or shotgun the tag is still good thru the rest of the regular seasons. On top of that a youth if they wanted could also get an either sex bow and an either sex mloader/shotgun tag for the regular seasons.Antlerless tags, they can get more than they could ever shoot if they wanted too.Kids are busy in tha fall during school, they need to be able to go whenever they can.

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from Sarge01 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

When I say "WE" I mean the International Hunter Education Association. The study was conducted over a period of 20 years. I know there are exceptions but with the other recreational opportunities today and the one parent households the odds are against the kids.

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from Carl Huber wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I hope I made my point. But anyone that carries a gun for a living [police-military] has to demonstrate proficiency with said firearm. I think if your going to field a hunter he should demonstrate with a bow or muzzleloader and be able to pick the deer out of the herd of cows. As far as youngsters go insurance companies keep the records. That's why my premium went up the month my boys got their drivers licence

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from Neslie wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

The number of days to hunt deer in New Jersey either with bow, primitive firearm or shotgun expands from September to February if you care to take advantage of the regular and permit seasons. As a small game hunter, the opportunity to safely trek through the brush and field with my Brittany has become limited, although the pheasant season extends into February.

As far as youth-only seasons before the regular season, my neighbor took his 14 year old out on such a hunt a few years ago and the boy shot a 4 pointer after being in his stand for only 20 minutes. I think his appreciation for what happened was jaded...it was too easy. He has not hunted since.

I started hunting at age 14 without any special season or attention. It was my father who instilled the desire in me to go in the field for game. Dads, step up to the plate.

Next thing you know they will be putting a pile of food below the tree stand to lure the deer in.

Please refer to Good Hill Hunting, 43rd episode of King of the Hill.

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from nchunt101 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

i am all for states having primitive/bow seasons on public land to give those who want to use those weapons a better chance. I do however feel that on private/leased land the land owner/lesse should be able to hunt with whatever method he/she chooses. Quality deer come from managment not from the lack of a november rifle season.

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from rikross wrote 2 years 41 weeks ago

I've hunted deer in New York for over 40 years on both public and private lands. The DEC's Deer Management permit system has decimated deer populations on public lands and has had a predictably lesser effect on deer populations on private lands due to lack of hunter access. I'm not opposed to extending hunting opportunities for bowhunters and kids but antler restrictions represent an over regulation of our sport. Antler restrictions would likely result in more does being taken, at least initially, on public lands. I'm not sure those over regulated herds could stand the additional pressure.

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from TM wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

As a NY hunter, I oppose the expansion of the archery season and an early October gun season for children. Deer hunters ignore the fact that there are other sportsmen who enjoy the woods during the fall.

Mr. Bestul, if New York has "one of the shortest archery-exclusive seasons around," I propose that you lobby for a special December to January archery season. Also, I suspect that the vast majority of archery hunters and primative firearms hunters do so to get "first crack at 'their' buck" rather than for the love of the bow. Flip the gun season and the archery seasons and watch bow sales fall. So, don't get too righteous about gun hunters.

The real loser in all of these proposals -- is the small game hunter. Not that long ago, New York used to ban deer hunting on Sundays. Frankly, it is a little scary to be in the grouse woods during deer season. No one cares. To most people around here "hunting" means "deer hunting" and the regulations are written in a way that it negatively impacts other sportsmen.

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from dtbc333 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

sarge01..."We did a study and found out that if a young person does not hunt by the time he or she is 18 they will probably never hunt."...Who is we? What did this study consist of? I know many people who didn't get into hunting until after they were 18, and not one of them is a recently married young lady.

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from shane wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I'll say this again. Tell your state to do what OH is doing. We have more deer than we can keep up with (record harvests followed by record populations), huge bucks (you will forget that after you suggest this to your wildlife people and legislators), and plenty of time for everyone to get their deer.

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from PigHunter wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Here's an interesting survey result from South Carolina.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/2010DeerHarvestReport.html
"Although rifles are used by approximately 90 percent of hunters, nearly 80 percent of hunters use multiple weapons during the course of the deer season... a majority (76.4%) of deer hunters prefer rifles... Bows (12.0%) are the second most preferred weapon"

If you look at table 11 of the survey you will see that 25% used bow & arrow, 17.2% used muzzleloaders and 4.7% used crossbows. However, table 12 shows only 13% actually prefer bow & arrow, 1.7% muzzleloaders and 0.9% prefer crossbows.

Therefore, my earlier supposition is correct. Given the choice, 'many current archery and muzzleloader hunters would never touch those weapons again if not induced to do so by special seasons.'

So, are the state wildlife laws artificially propping up the archery and muzzleloader industries? You bet!

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from PigHunter wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Here's the 2010 New York Deer Hunting Survey.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/whitetail-365/2011/06/new-deer-regs-...

"Despite the resistance to many changes to big game regulations explored in this study, hunters expressed support for two kinds of new opportunities. A majority of hunters – regardless of whether they currently hunt with a bow – support legalization of crossbows and their use during any season when bows currently can be used (e.g., archery, regular firearms seasons). About 40% of hunters “probably” or “definitely” would use a crossbow if they were legal. Strong support also exists for the idea of creating a new firearms hunt for youth deer hunters."

"Create a new season for flintlock, sidelock, and matchlock muzzleloaders (no scopes allowed) (20% good idea, 59% bad idea). Further, 70% of current muzzleloader hunters would be “not likely” or only “slightly likely” to participate in such a new season."

(It seems to me most hunters do not want to take a backwards step in technology when hunting deer. ~PH)

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from jbird wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I think a "youth" season should be for youths, not just teenagers. My daughter shot her first deer at 10 and her first turkey. My son got both his first deer and turkey at 9. Parents should be the ones to decide when a child is old enough to hunt, not States. Thankfully I live in MO, where this is possible. I agree with alot of the above posts about the importance of getting kids in the woods as early as possible. My kids were going with me when they were 5 and 3, not to hunt, just to be with Dad while he hunted. Yeah, I probably saw less game, but I wouldn't change it for the world.

As previously stated, bow success rates are very low, so "gun" hunters shouldn't get their panties in such a wad over an extended season for them. Yes, I enjoy rifle hunting more than bow or muzzleloader, but I do all 3 to increase my days in the woods and my meat in the freezer.

I believe the only thing Iowa's "shotgun only" law accomplishes is depriving Iowans of the joy of a well sighted rifle. The accuracy and range of shotguns has come so far since that silly law was put in place, that it makes the law, well, silly.

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from ADKHunter wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

im 15 i remember when i was 8 and traping with my dad and thinking god i have to wait until im 16 then they lower the age i thought thats a godsend then the possiblity of a longer season great and antler regs. better this mean the deer can get bigger and learn a little bet from mature rather than be 1 1/2 yearsold out in the field and BOOM little bucks laying there with no chance to become "your dream buck"

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from 2Bsoon wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

As a NYS landowner, my only wish would be that all "new" rules would be put on the ending date of the season and not the beginning. Want a special season for younger hunters, great, just push back the opening/closing date for the others. I enjoy my woods I just hate ruining a hunt for someone just because I and my dog want to walk down a deer trail on my own land.

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from stewy wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

the antler restriction should be a no go theres more people here in NY that care more about just getting a dear than those big antlers. and the deer population cant support all this there is no where near as many as there use to be only seeing a handful of deer last year and hunting everyday possible on a very big farm. there sure isnt as many deer as they say there are that is for sure. just like theres no such thing as a mountain lion around here thats bull the dec let them go in NY.

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from PigHunter wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

I'm all for special youth hunts / days. We need to encourage young hunters.

However, I'm against special archery and muzzleloader seasons. The ONLY reason I've got a muzzleloader and bow is to maximize my hunting days. I despise having to use anything other than a centerfire to take game but I won't stay home because of it.

I've got no problem with people choosing primative weapons too hunt with but just don't legislate protected seasons based on the technology used. Come on, centerfire technology is from the 1800's.

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from PigHunter wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Hank111, I'm for extending the firearms season and totally doing away with special archery and muzzleloader seasons. Like me, I bet many current archery and muzzleloader hunters would never touch those weapons again if not induced to do so by special seasons. I have a friend that chooses to always hunt with a longbow even during centerfire season. I think he should continue to have the right to hunt that way and I wouldn't want to have restrictions placed on him. I'm just asking for the same but in the other way around.

Deer herd management can be accomplished with game tag limits and Antler Point Restrictions no matter how long the season lasts.

TM does make a good point about small game hunting which is also a gateway for beginning hunters. I think there should be small game seasons outside of deer season. That way small game hunters are not required to wear hunter's orange for safety and can hunt thick cover without the fear of some deer hunter mistaking them for game.

I hunt in AL and not in NY but the deer season here is split in a similar fashion.

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from Hank111 wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Pighunter- What you see in those surveys are the weekend warriors and hunters that just want to kill a deer in the high pressure states surveyed which probably is the majority. If you looked at the same survey in the midwest it would be totally different. With more opportunity and less pressure people here get alot more
satisfaction killing a mature buck with a bow or mloader.
To me and almost everyone I know it is not nearly the same to snipe a buck at 200+ yards with a rifle as fooling and tagging a mature buck at close range.I guess liveing in a high pressure nov. rifle state makes people that way out of desperation to get a deer.Thats why all the non-residents from the eastern states are all standing in line to bowhunt/mload Iowa.

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from upperdel wrote 2 years 42 weeks ago

Mr Bestul,
I agree that we must learn to share as hunters! Selfishness is not good in any part of our lives.

Any chance that I and my grandson could hunt on your hunting properties this year. We are safe and responsible NY hunters with no access to good deer hunting property. I hunt public lands currently but am having problems with hunter pressure and a lack of deer sightings and sign.

I'm a little concerned that if a young hunter sits in the woods for 2 or 3 days and doesn't see any deer this could turn him off to the sport for a lifetime!

Probably if NY State had a habitat improvement plan for its pubic forests and did a little less to protect its booming predator populations I wouldn't find it necessary to ask you for your generosity.

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