Looks like that that would be fun. I think its different when you kill none wanted game that ruins good hunting ground.

Dang...that looks fun, and when it comes to wild hogs/pigs I say "kill'em all". I dont consider things like fair chase and ethics when it comes to hogs/pigs. I have seen them destroy some great deer country, and I really just dont like them!

That video shows a disgusting disregard for animals. You can go ahead and "kill 'em all" if you like (in regards to feral hogs), but don't do it by crippling, torturing and maiming them, which is exactly how some of the pigs in that video will die.

Kill them humanely. Think about what that word means. It is what separates us from barbarians.

I don't what the animal is or how much damage it causes. No creature deserves to be gutshot and run off and die days later. Spray and pray on animals for the "fun of it" is not cool, and that's my ethical code.

Amen, Proverbs.

whatever one may think about this, she seems to be a pretty terrible shot!

Sportsmen shouldn't take issue with invasive species control, keep it legal Texas

Dave-Thanks again for adding to the discussion of the meaning of fair chase, as well as how that intersects with notions of law and ethics. I suspect (admittedly it might be hubris on my part) that I am at least one of the people alluded to by this post. If so, feel free to name me on this or any other occasion.

I don't think legal, ethical, and 'fair chase' mean the same or nearly the same thing. Most formal definitions of 'fair chase' include whether the activity is legal and ethical. P&Y and B&C both mention legal and ethical as important standards of whether or not something is 'fair chase'. That would mean that 'fair chase' isn't a different but quasi-related standard, but a higher standard. Not everything that's legal is ethical, and not everything that's ethical is legal, but everything that's 'fair chase' must be both legal and ethical. The problem we have (as I mentioned in the other post) is that not everyone agrees (or is necessarily familiar with) those standards. I agree they aren't canonical. I think, though, that we (hunters/fishermen/people-in-general) need to continue to have these conversations because the dialogue itself is important. In so doing, we are communicating that the rightness (be it legal, ethical, or fair chase) of the sport matters to us. The that conversations ceases from lack of interest, we become what the anti-hunters already believe us to be. Callous.

I hope I haven't rubbed you the wrong way (or the right way, for that matter). I read this website a lot (thought I typically comment little). This is just something that I believe matters, and it's important to me.

Pest eradication does not bother me too much, I don't hear too many folks complain about trappers...and that is brutal.
I know how I feel personally when I kill an animal, bittersweet.
Fortunately for me, I've only taken one shot where a follow up was necessary, I spined a doe with my bow, had to climb down and cut her throat...not a good feeling.
I understand those of you who are against the copter shooting, or similar endeavors, I've never done it, looks like fun, and having seen first hand what hogs do to property/crops and the difficulty in eradicating them, I just don't have too much of a problem with this.

ambosway, you are an idiot! i don't usually say that to someone on here but wounding an animal in any way is unethical and should be outlawed no matter how much of a pest they are!

somethingclever, just to continue the discussion from the last post, I agree that fair chase has an element of ethics and is related to the question of ethics (hence, my prior comment that there is substantial overlap between the question of "fair chase" and "ethical hunting") I was simply trying to emphasize that they are two different questions.

With regard to the overlap between legality and fair chase, I agree with Dave who has given several examples of situations that are both illegal and fair chase.

You are confusing your opinion with facts. All of ethics and fair chase are opinion until they cross the line of legality. Anything illegal is by definition not fair chase. A fair chase hunter follows the game laws of the state they are in. In my state you can't bait, so yes, if you bait in my state it's not fair chase.

In Hal Herring's state, your senior editor, you can't use game cams, so there they aren't fair chase.

The legal dividing line is where one begins. Above that is opinion and preference. I don't shoot pigs from helicopters, but I sure wouldn't express an opinion about it in public any more than I would about your choice to bait.

Good topic, Dave. This is why I enjoy reading these blogs so much.
To me, legal comes first. Then ethics, which to me is treating the animal with respect for its life and dispatching it as quikly and humanely as possible. Whether it be a hog in a pig pen or any wild game. Also, no waste of the meat plays in here as well.
The helicopter sport shooting don't pass my personal ethics test. Even though the hogs may be vermin.
As for fair chase, thats an area with too many shades of grey for me to parse out.

Rock,
Well said. Good points.
I agree that in terms of what he does, where he's hunting, a fair-chase hunter starts with what is legal and goes from there. State or local laws inform (but don't dictate) fair chase in the specific. But we often speak of fair chase in a general sense, as applied to all hunters everywhere. And yes this puts you squarely in the realm of opinion. I don't see anything wrong with that. Opinion is what makes discussions interesting.

And just so you know, I do maybe 2 percent of my hunting with a guide. The other 98 is on my own. Outdoor writers and editors wind up hunting with guides sometimes; it comes with the job. I would much rather hunt without one, and usually do.

Well he is my 2 cents. Hogs are pest as are rats, mice, prairie dogs, muskrats, ect. If you could trap/poison hogs as efficiently as rats, mice, P Dogs, I'm guessing you wouldn't have a problem with that (which is disturbing in it's own way), but you can't they are smarter and the way to effectively eradicate is a chopper. All that being said, they are not a game animal that deservers "Fair or Ethical" Chase period. Dave, you are off base and starting to cross the line, because they are pests and not game animals.

My belief is that too many times these questions and answers become too complex. This being the fact that personalities, state laws and personal morals become muddled. Thinking outside the box. I think the "kissing your sister" analogy would be interchangeable. Fair: definitely, affection is the glue that binds family. Ethical: of course on her birthday or after a separation as a greeting. Legal: I believe that is very well defined and does not encompass the first two.

I agree that once you meet the legal line, the rest is dependent on your personal values.

The above is legal, not ethical, not fair chase in my book. And as others have commented, not humane.

I saw gut shoot every-one of them SOB's. I understand everyone's point for wanting a clean humane kill, I do. I hate to see animals suffering, but I have nothing for feral hogs, and I make no apologies for it. Until you have to deal with them, or know folks who's lively hood depends on the land and these nasty critters threaten it, don't judge. Bad shot, hell yes that was horrible. Only crime in my opinion was she didn't hit more. There is no way to dent the pig population by just shooting one here and there for food. You need to consider the big picture.

I agree with many here that what is shown on the video is unethical, leaving wounded animals without making a determined effort to locate them goes against my grain. The shooter needs to be competent with the weapon AND the copter pilot needs to be competent in providing a relativly stable and consistant shootong platform. I also believe in eating what I kill and only killing to eat it but...

On the other hand this video does show how extreme the hog problem is getting here in TX. Hogs are a normally NOCTURNAL animal. Getting this many hogs out and running during the daylight hours shows a bad problem. The copter alone wouldn't get them up and moving, they'd just hole up in the brush. The ATV they had out there wouldn't get them moving as they can hole up where the ATV can't get to. And I really doubt they had dogs running them, I know I wouldn't want my dogs out there with that "accurate" shootong going on

It seems to me that the helicopter would be better used to drive the pig herd towards a line of hunters on the ground hidden in the trees than to carry one hunter trying to connect with a moving target.

As for the helicopter shooting, why aren't they using 100 round drum mags which don't need to be changed so often?

it appears that this country is moving toward a scenario which is common in europe. a legal compromise between the animal rights activists and the "spray and pray-kill'em all and let god sort it out" types of "hunters". as petzal has reported, in germany you aren't allowed to hunt until you have passed the equivalent of a two-year aa degree in hunting-shooting. i fear that someday soon only the rich and priveleged will be able to hunt in this country. another great old american tradition gone by the wayside. and a definate move toward the further eroding of our second amendment rights

Kris,
I hear ya. I respect your opinion.
But, I couldn't disagree with you more. I think it is critically important that hunters intelligently discuss difficult topics and try to sort them out among themselves. Screw the antis. They don't scare me particularly. They are a bunch of Fruitloops, by and large, and most of America knows it. Far more frightening is the prospect of our scaring the hell our of mainstream nonhunters in an effort to present a united front to the crazies.
Just my two cents.

un-ethical and lazy...sad

MATTYK,
T REX also said humans were invasive pests a few million years ago, thing is that now we are on the top of the food chain. And this is just the way it is.

Mattyk speak for yourself.

I don't know that I would want to actually do that... It just doesn't seem to be satisfying. I enjoy the kill of the hunt, but if that's all there is to it, and no hunting skill is involved (other than getting off a lucky shot), then what's the point? Let's get a no-limit hunt that's free for residents and non-residents during the day or night. That will go a long way toward helping control the population, and a lot of people will help out. I understand the damage these creatures cause, but you can't call yourself a hunter and still endorse the suffering of any animal.

There are a lot of problems here. First, you have to wonder about how safe these shooters are. The website says they also use automatic weapons. I don't think I'd like to be in the area when full auto weapons are used. Two, it's just a matter of time until they fly into a tree or telephone wire. This looks like an accident waiting to happen. Not ethical at all. The woman shot up something like 10 pigs and only recovered one. What happened to the rest of the animals? It is not hunting, probably more of a shooting event for people used to video gaming.

Dave,
What HUGE waste of time. All I see is "dogs chasing their tails". This post and post like it argue "laws & principles". Laws have a definate right and wrong. Principles allow each individual's conscience to play a factor into their choice. Fair chase is a principle, allowing each hunter to choose for themselves. You'll never understand the results of those polls until you undrstand its all opinions. I'll check back in a few days to see if you guys have anything worthwhile.
Completely disappointed.

It cost a lot and it's a waste of time. I watched the video and I just don't see any reason to even try to hunt pigs in this manner.It would be better to use the chopper to push the hogs, but the shooter needs to be stationary to get a good shot.That way you wouldn't have a lot of waste nor a lot of wounded animals running around.I'm glad I don't have the problem with pigs as a lot of you do.I don't have money to waste on things such as this either.Maybe you need to quit growing crops that hogs like like CORN!!!! DUH

that video looks like it would b a blast. but for godsakes get someone in that helicopter that can shoot!!! the girl looked like she shot 100 times and maybe had 3 hits with one kill. there in an open field for crying out loud, how hard could it be! even if you miss with all that dust just walk the bullet onto the hog...

as far as ethics, having her behind the gun WAS unethical.

As someone who has seen first-hand the unbelievable damage feral hogs can do to both cultivated fields and rangelands, and knowing how fast hogs breed, I understand why my state legalized killing them from helicopters. No one should mistake that for hunting, though, and certainly not sport hunting.
Understanding does not signify approval, either. Personally, I love to hunt hogs -- on foot, at ground level -- and I love to eat them as well. While ranchers are certainly entitled to complain about the damage hogs do, I also find it odd that if you want to hunt feral hogs here in Texas you are going to shell out at least $100 for a simple day lease and far more than that for a package hunt, often with an additional charge for more than one hog. Either they are a pernicious pest or a valuable game animal, but its seems a bit duplicitous for the same person to claim they're both.
As for baiting, I have no problem with it anymore than I do with hunting over a false scrape or a field of oats. Anyone who has ever hunted my part of south Texas knows that the underbrush and briars are so thick and impenetrable that still hunting through it is virtually impossible. You have to do something to draw animals out of that brush. Shooting them still requires the same patience and skills as hunting from any stand, and in many cases the hunt combines baiting with still hunting senderos cut through the brush.
I always prefer still hunting and spot-and-stalk when the terrain allows for it, but anyone who condemns all forms of baiting as unethical or unsporting should also avoid old apple orchards, grain fields, or any other obvious attractant, lest they trip over their hypocrisy.